WEBVTT

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<v ->This meeting of the
public utility Commission</v>

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of Texas will come to
order to consider matters

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that have been duly posted

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with the secretary of state
for Friday, March 5th, 2021.

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I'd like to open the phone lines

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for public comment at this time.

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Colin, could you please
instruct the callers how to get on?

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And Steven, could you
please let's limit everyone

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to two minutes to be respectful
of everyone's time please?

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<v ->Yes, sir.</v>

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<v ->Thank you, sir.</v>

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<v ->And ladies and gentlemen</v>

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if you would like to ask a
question or give a comment

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you may press one,
then zero on your phone.

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You may remove yourself from queue

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at any time by pressing one zero again

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and if you are using a speakerphone

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please pick up the handset
before pressing the numbers.

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Once again, for a comment,
it is one than zero at this time.

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One moment please.

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[Silence]

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<v ->Mr. Brightchrist.</v>

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Could you please press
one followed by zero?

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And Mr. Bright, Kreitz
your line is open.

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<v ->Are they ready for my question?</v>

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<v ->Yes, sir.</v>

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<v ->Hello, my name
is Billy Brightchrist.</v>

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I'm an electrical engineer.

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I have a master's thesis
in generation control

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of the engineered several power plants.

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And I have a couple
of questions concerning

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I guess your agenda item 18.

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The first question I see back in 2014

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the Brattle group provided a study

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for the T.U.C. in which they considered

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ERCOT's current energy
only versus the capacity market

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They come in the report it was stated

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specifically implementing a capacity

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market would reduce the risk associated

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with potential low reliability

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and high costs events
providing that benefits overall

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Will the PUC consider
changing the ERCOT market

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to a capacity market?

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And my second question that
I have, during the winter event

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did any generating company
charge higher prices than normal

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or some generators while they
had other generators offline?

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If so, that would be
quite unethical. I think.

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So that's all I have. Thank you.

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<v ->Thank you, sir.
For your questions.</v>

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This is Arthur D'Andrea

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I'll give Shelly a chance
to address them too

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if she wants to, let me
take them in opposite order.

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<v ->We should just
take comments, Sir.</v>

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<v ->Well, I think, I agree
with you, Steven,</v>

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typically it's comments,
but I think depending

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on if it gets out of hand,
we can, we can shut it down.

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But I do think we owe
other public explanations

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in some of this stuff.
It's extraordinary.

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So I, I agree with you ordinarily
we should do it that way,

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but I'm going to run with it.

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So in opposite order,

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the second thing you
described, it would be unethical.

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And in, in our little
corner of the world,

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we call it withholding, and
it's an abusive market power.

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And we're still looking at
that, obviously, sir, but we

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you know, if it gives you
comfort, we have kind of,

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we have something called an
independent market monitor,

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which are a bunch of PhD economists

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that we have on contract
and their job is to look for this.

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Their job is to make
sure generators don't do

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what you've just described.

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And if they do do that

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the independent market
monitor brings us that stuff.

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And we bring enforcement
actions against them.

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So we don't know yet but if it happened,

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it's gonna get fixed.

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The capacity market
question is more complicated.

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It's, you know, that has been a debate

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in these halls and in the
legislature for a long time.

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Capacity markets are expensive
and there are other ways,

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if you're going to spend a lot of money,

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there are other ways to make sure

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that things like what happened
two weeks ago, didn't happen.

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We could pay for, you
know, we can make gas plants

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go to duel fuel and keep
storage on site, for instance,

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And that's also expensive,

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but cheaper than the capacity market

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So it is one way that
might've might fix this.

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My personal view right now, anyway,

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and this is subject to change,

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is that a capacity market
would not have helped us here.

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And I'll leave you with this,

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We've got, you know, our reserve margins

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our winter reserve
margins going into this storm

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were 43%, which means
we had 43% more generation

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than we thought we would
need, which is, a capacity

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market would have seen that and said,

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you don't need any more.

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So our problem wasn't capacity.

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Our problem is that our
capacity went poof all at once

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and we lost half of it.

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And if we'd had a capacity
market, we would have

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maybe we'd have one or two more plants,

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but those plants also
would've gone offline.

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So I think our problem was
more physical than market-based

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but again, we're still
investigating what

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went wrong and I'm
open to change my mind.

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<v ->Yeah. I don't really
have anything to add.</v>

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I appreciate the public
willing to participate

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and give us comments

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And so thank you for
calling in this morning, Sir.

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<v ->Yep, thank you very much.</v>

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Anybody else Colin?

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<v ->Yes, sir.</v>

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We'll go to the line of Gary Cunningham.

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Your line is open.

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<v ->Thank you.</v>

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And thank you for hearing
my comments this morning.

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So there are hundreds of
thousands, if not millions

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of meters within Texas, which
do not measure interval data

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they are called scalar
meters within the industry

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and they might have been
interrupted during the outage.

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And yet the billing process
that's in place by most

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of the utilities would still
allocate some usage to them

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across the entire month and
across the entire billing period

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Had the P.U.C. considered
instructing the utilities

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to zero out the usage
during the interruptions,

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the known interruption
period for each meter?

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To avoid customers, unduly

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seeing charges for
consumption during periods

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which they had no electricity service?

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<v ->I don't know the answer to that</v>

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but I will look into this
issue that you've just raised

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and we'll have staff take a look.

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So thank you for
bringing it to our attention.

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<v ->Thank you for your time.</v>

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<v ->And once again, if
there are any comments</v>

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it is one than zero.

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And to Mr. Chairman, there
are no comments at this time.

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Please continue.

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<v ->Thank you very much, Colin.</v>

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Steven, could you please take
us through the Consent Agenda?

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<v ->Good morning,
Commissioners by individual ballot</v>

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following the items were placed

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on your Consent Agenda
items one, 10 and 12.

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<v ->Thank you.</v>

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I move to approve the Consent Agenda.

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<v ->Second.</v>

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<v ->Okay.</v>

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Item one was consented, item two

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docket four nine two
six three, I filed a memo.

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<v ->I am fine with your memo.</v>

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<v ->Okay. I move to prove an
order consistent with my memo.</v>

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<v ->Second</v>

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<v ->Item three, docket
four nine eight seven one,</v>

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I filed a memo in this.

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<v ->I'm fine with your memo.</v>

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Then I moved through proven order

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consistent with the PFD and my memo.

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<v ->Second.</v>

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<v ->Okay.</v>

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Item four, docket four
nine nine two three,

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I filed a memo in this.

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<v ->I'm also fine with this memo.</v>

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<v ->Okay I move</v>

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We approve an order
consistent with my memo.

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<v ->Second</v>

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<v ->I feel bad for taking
credit for these memos.</v>

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I did not actually drop them in there.

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Item five, docket
five one one six three,

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I, I caused a memo to be filed in this.

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<v ->I'm fine with the memo.</v>

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<v ->I move that</v>

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we approve an order
consistent with my memo.

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<v ->Second.</v>

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<v ->Okay.</v>

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Item six, stuck at five one one six six

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I granted rehearing in
this upon further reflection,

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and reading the record.

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I'm ready to deny the motion.

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<v ->Okay. I'm fine with that.</v>

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<v ->Okay. Then I move
we deny rehearing.</v>

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<v ->Second</v>

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<v ->Okay. Item seven,
five one four nine two,</v>

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I filed a memo.

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<v ->I'm with the memo.</v>

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<v ->I move we approve an
order consistent with my memo.</v>

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<v ->Second</v>

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<v ->Item 8 is not taken up,</v>

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Item nine, docket five one two one four,

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I'm okay with the PFD.

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<v ->I am too.</v>

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<v ->Okay. Then I move
that we adopt an order</v>

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consistent with the PFD.

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<v ->Second</v>

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<v ->Item 10 was consented,
Item 11 is not taken up,</v>

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Item 12 was consented,
13 and 14 are not taken up.

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Item 15, Shelly, I hear

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that you have something
to say and announce on this.

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<v ->We were going to announce that</v>

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to the S.U.P. community that

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I'll be taking over those duties

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And so I look forward to, to working

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with them and keeping
you all informed as to

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about what I've learned
and what I, what I hear there.

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<v ->Great. Thank you
so much for doing that.</v>

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It's it's important work
for the Commission.

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Okay. Item 16, project
five one eight two five,

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I have a handful of things in item 22,

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but I don't have
anything for this project.

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Do you know Shelly?

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<v ->No.</v>

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<v ->Okay. I don't have
anything for 17, do you?</v>

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<v ->No.</v>

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<v ->Okay. Item 18? El Paso
electric is in the progress</v>

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of joining the Western
energy imbalance market

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And so I think it's appropriate

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at this time for us to instruct staff

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to open a project on the
Western energy imbalance market

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the same way we have for SBP, N E R S,

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and Miso that way we can
file things in there and okay.

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I don't think they're scheduled
to join until 2022 or 23

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So we don't have to, you know,

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there's quite a bit
of runway, but it's still

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probably the right time
to have that project open.

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<v ->Yeah.</v>

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<v ->Okay. 19 is not taken up,</v>

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Item 20, Alright we
have, so we have,

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So we have minutes from our
emergency open meetings held

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on February 15th and 16th of 2021.

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I don't have any corrections, do you?

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<v ->I do not.</v>

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<v ->No? Okay. Then I move
that we adopt the minutes</v>

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from the February 15th and
16th emergency open meetings.

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<v ->Agreed.</v>

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<v ->Okay. Item 21 is not taken up.</v>

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Item 22 docket five one eight one two,

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Okay. We have a lot of
things to talk about here.

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So first I want to,

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First, I want to do some
cleanup from, from two days ago.

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I, I think last time we talked
about allowing, you know

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we're still going to,

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well it's my view that we
still keep the disconnect,

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no disconnect order in
place, but we were going to

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but because the reps
can get charged late fees

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we were going to start
allowing them to pass

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on the late fees and also charge them.

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So do you agree to do, right?

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<v ->Yes</v>

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<v ->And so I think we, I
think we agreed last time</v>

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but now we need an order

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So I moved to adopt an
order that rescinds our

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order suspending late
fees on delinquent bills

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charged by retail electric
providers to their residential

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and small business
customers effective today.

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<v ->Agreed.</v>

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<v ->Is that in this problem?</v>

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<v ->Yes.</v>

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<v ->Okay. We have a similar
thing with water, late fees.</v>

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Their wholesalers also
charged them late fees.

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And so I think it's probably time to,

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while no one can get disconnected,

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it's probably time to allow
that, those to pass through.

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So if you agree, I
moved to adopt an order

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that rescinds our order
suspending late fees

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on delinquent bills,
charged by retail, water,

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and sewer utilities to their residential

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and small business
customers effective today.

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<v ->Agreed.</v>

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<v ->Thank you, Shelly.</v>

00:13:29.810 --> 00:13:31.530
The ELCAP project, have you,

00:13:31.530 --> 00:13:33.190
I was thinking we were talking

00:13:33.190 --> 00:13:35.200
about opening up a project to move

00:13:35.200 --> 00:13:38.860
to have a discussion and
invite discussion on this.

00:13:38.860 --> 00:13:41.026
Are you still open to that?

00:13:41.026 --> 00:13:43.410
<v ->You've probably heard
the same feedback I have</v>

00:13:43.410 --> 00:13:48.380
that you know, about a lot of
these topics about, you know

00:13:48.380 --> 00:13:51.240
do we take some time to
deliberate and get feedback

00:13:51.240 --> 00:13:54.470
or do we need to give
people certainty right now?

00:13:54.470 --> 00:13:56.068
And so I'm open to it

00:13:56.068 --> 00:13:59.210
and I'm not saying we have to say today

00:13:59.210 --> 00:14:01.747
what we think our opinions are, but I

00:14:02.650 --> 00:14:04.880
I am sympathetic a little
bit to the argument of like

00:14:04.880 --> 00:14:07.695
people just want to know what to expect

00:14:07.695 --> 00:14:11.730
And so that that's, that's
all I came with today.

00:14:11.730 --> 00:14:13.300
<v ->Yeah. I agree with you.</v>

00:14:13.300 --> 00:14:16.328
I think that one thing we
can do here while we move

00:14:16.328 --> 00:14:19.878
through this is provide some
calm and steadiness and

00:14:19.878 --> 00:14:23.250
and I think also
importantly, it's kind of be

00:14:23.250 --> 00:14:25.050
be very straightforward
about what's on our mind

00:14:25.050 --> 00:14:27.030
and why we're making
the decisions we're making

00:14:27.030 --> 00:14:29.300
because I know, I mean,
we, we usually try to do that

00:14:29.300 --> 00:14:31.900
but sometimes it's, it's
easier to kind of say less

00:14:31.900 --> 00:14:35.500
but I think for something
like this, it's worth saying more

00:14:35.500 --> 00:14:38.671
and I agree with you, the
market needs certainty.

00:14:38.671 --> 00:14:41.320
I'm not sure we can
provide that entirely

00:14:41.320 --> 00:14:43.810
since our right now
we're discussing all sorts

00:14:43.810 --> 00:14:45.570
of market changes in

00:14:45.570 --> 00:14:47.360
in a very public way in the legislature.

00:14:47.360 --> 00:14:48.950
And so, you know, we can

00:14:48.950 --> 00:14:52.203
we can only do so much and
there may be some changes.

00:14:53.740 --> 00:14:55.330
So I, I am a little torn, but I, I

00:14:55.330 --> 00:14:57.720
I would like to have it
open just to discuss for now.

00:14:57.720 --> 00:15:00.810
And if, if, if we need to shut
it down, we can like you, I

00:15:00.810 --> 00:15:04.280
I shouldn't say like you, I'm
not inclined to mess with it.

00:15:04.280 --> 00:15:06.370
I think I'd like to let it run

00:15:06.370 --> 00:15:09.343
as our rule was said and let
it be 2000 over the summer

00:15:09.343 --> 00:15:12.223
but I don't want to have regrets
later because I don't know,

00:15:12.223 --> 00:15:14.690
I've heard advocacy against doing that,

00:15:14.690 --> 00:15:17.820
but I haven't really
heard the other side.

00:15:17.820 --> 00:15:20.080
And we've made a lot of
decisions in the last couple

00:15:20.080 --> 00:15:22.400
of weeks that had to be
made kind of under the gun

00:15:22.400 --> 00:15:25.720
at the last second and
where it's possible to get back

00:15:25.720 --> 00:15:27.612
to a more deliberative
mode I'd like to do that

00:15:27.612 --> 00:15:29.160
<v ->Agreed. Me too.</v>

00:15:29.160 --> 00:15:30.820
<v ->Because our standard
style is, you know,</v>

00:15:30.820 --> 00:15:33.670
people actually file
their comments officially

00:15:33.670 --> 00:15:35.530
before the Commission,
and we read them and decide,

00:15:35.530 --> 00:15:37.810
not you know, whoever
has my cell phone number

00:15:37.810 --> 00:15:39.900
can call me hours before a meeting.

00:15:39.900 --> 00:15:40.733
And, you know,

00:15:40.733 --> 00:15:42.510
that's not the ideal way
to, to make decisions.

00:15:42.510 --> 00:15:44.440
So if you, if you agree

00:15:44.440 --> 00:15:47.800
I'd like to open a project
to discuss, you know,

00:15:47.800 --> 00:15:49.010
what to do with the LCAP.

00:15:49.010 --> 00:15:50.340
Should we leave it as written?

00:15:50.340 --> 00:15:52.680
Eliminate the link to
the fuel index price?

00:15:52.680 --> 00:15:55.103
Eliminate the hard dollar
cap or raise the cap?

00:15:56.930 --> 00:15:59.510
And I think that, you know, if

00:15:59.510 --> 00:16:01.690
if we were going to act, it
would have to be quickly.

00:16:01.690 --> 00:16:04.740
And so I think we should ask
for comments by March 26.

00:16:04.740 --> 00:16:05.573
Please.

00:16:05.573 --> 00:16:08.030
<v ->Actually, that's a good
point, but the fuel price thing</v>

00:16:08.030 --> 00:16:10.260
I heard some testimony
and some questions

00:16:10.260 --> 00:16:13.025
from senators yesterday
about, you know, at minimum

00:16:13.025 --> 00:16:16.376
we probably need to do
something different there.

00:16:16.376 --> 00:16:17.395
<v ->Mhmm.</v>

00:16:17.395 --> 00:16:19.340
So, so to the extent we're
going to do something

00:16:19.340 --> 00:16:20.230
in this project, that

00:16:20.230 --> 00:16:23.366
for sure seems like
something we need to look at

00:16:23.366 --> 00:16:24.486
<v ->I agree with that.</v>

00:16:24.486 --> 00:16:25.997
Yeah. That needs to be fixed.

00:16:25.997 --> 00:16:27.366
And so, you know, we can

00:16:27.366 --> 00:16:29.270
it's a small fix, that this
disaster exposed a lot

00:16:29.270 --> 00:16:31.720
of small things we need
to fix with our market's big

00:16:31.720 --> 00:16:34.250
and small, and we might
as well get this one done.

00:16:34.250 --> 00:16:35.846
<v ->Yeah.</v>

00:16:35.846 --> 00:16:37.039
<v ->Okay.</v>

00:16:37.039 --> 00:16:40.490
<v ->T.D.U. cold load pick-up
I assume, you know</v>

00:16:40.490 --> 00:16:41.719
as much about this as I do.

00:16:41.719 --> 00:16:42.552
<v ->Yep.</v>

00:16:42.552 --> 00:16:44.069
<v ->Okay. So I think
it's worth doing</v>

00:16:44.069 --> 00:16:46.330
I think it's a good proposal by the TDU.

00:16:46.330 --> 00:16:48.778
So this is for people who aren't

00:16:48.778 --> 00:16:51.800
who didn't get the memo out there.

00:16:51.800 --> 00:16:53.950
This is in some TTU tariffs

00:16:53.950 --> 00:16:57.310
there's a provision which has
adjusted their demand charges

00:16:57.310 --> 00:16:58.300
or rate class

00:16:58.300 --> 00:17:01.799
of commercial consumers
based on their highest, their

00:17:01.799 --> 00:17:04.840
their peak demand on any given month.

00:17:04.840 --> 00:17:08.520
And during that, during the
cold weather, two weeks ago

00:17:08.520 --> 00:17:12.309
a lot of commercial customers
had big spikes in demand

00:17:12.309 --> 00:17:15.270
because of the cold load
pickup issue, which is, you know

00:17:15.270 --> 00:17:16.500
there's a huge spike, right?

00:17:16.500 --> 00:17:20.051
When the, when the load
comes on and that's caused spikes

00:17:20.051 --> 00:17:23.920
in their bills and the TDU
has pointed this out to us

00:17:23.920 --> 00:17:25.060
and I think it's worth fixing.

00:17:25.060 --> 00:17:30.060
So if you agree, I I'd
like to issue an order

00:17:30.179 --> 00:17:33.690
for the periods of February
15th to February 19th

00:17:33.690 --> 00:17:37.120
directing TDU's to adjust
downward billing demands.

00:17:37.120 --> 00:17:37.953
And bills sent

00:17:37.953 --> 00:17:40.768
to retail electric providers,
eliminate the demand reading

00:17:40.768 --> 00:17:42.768
for demand ratchet calculations,

00:17:42.768 --> 00:17:45.697
removed demand readings
from re-classifications,

00:17:45.697 --> 00:17:48.790
and reverse actions
related to invoicing ratchets

00:17:48.790 --> 00:17:50.330
or reclassification.

00:17:50.330 --> 00:17:51.163
<v ->Agreed</v>

00:17:51.163 --> 00:17:52.730
<v ->Okay.</v>

00:17:52.730 --> 00:17:56.490
<v ->Just to point out that a, we
had prepared a draft order to</v>

00:17:56.490 --> 00:17:58.909
grant these requests
in circulated with y'all

00:17:58.909 --> 00:18:01.137
just before this meeting

00:18:01.137 --> 00:18:04.720
and that's the one we
will bring you for signature

00:18:04.720 --> 00:18:06.066
<v ->I reviewed it and I like it.</v>

00:18:06.066 --> 00:18:07.588
Thank you.

00:18:07.588 --> 00:18:08.588
<v ->Thank you.</v>

00:18:09.710 --> 00:18:11.600
<v ->Okay. The next thing
I want to discuss is</v>

00:18:11.600 --> 00:18:16.520
something we brought up
last time, Shelly, and that's

00:18:16.520 --> 00:18:18.170
I've had an opportunity
to talk a little bit about it.

00:18:18.170 --> 00:18:20.160
I think it makes a lot of sense to think

00:18:20.160 --> 00:18:23.640
about extending the invoice
and settlement invoice

00:18:23.640 --> 00:18:24.990
dispute timelines at ERCOT.

00:18:27.980 --> 00:18:29.160
<v ->I never circled back with them</v>

00:18:29.160 --> 00:18:31.550
So I don't know if they have a proposal.

00:18:31.550 --> 00:18:33.450
Or if you do? I mean, whatever.

00:18:33.450 --> 00:18:34.980
<v ->They're still
working on, you know,</v>

00:18:34.980 --> 00:18:37.985
I talked to Chad and
he definitely thinks

00:18:37.985 --> 00:18:41.730
it's added some uncertainty
and people are, you know

00:18:41.730 --> 00:18:43.230
this is not a good time for uncertainty

00:18:43.230 --> 00:18:44.360
but he's still trying to figure

00:18:44.360 --> 00:18:46.786
out exactly what the right timelines are

00:18:46.786 --> 00:18:50.010
So I think we can just ask
staff to work with ERCOT

00:18:50.010 --> 00:18:54.100
on the issue and develop an
order that, develop some kind

00:18:54.100 --> 00:18:56.600
of order and bring it to us at
our March 11 open meeting.

00:18:56.600 --> 00:18:59.120
But, but just a flag
to market participants

00:18:59.120 --> 00:19:00.945
that this is addressing the problem of

00:19:00.945 --> 00:19:03.585
of settling invoices, ADR timelines,

00:19:03.585 --> 00:19:06.440
And we'd like to know,
there was some uncertainty

00:19:06.440 --> 00:19:08.660
as to whether the deadline
is really short or long

00:19:08.660 --> 00:19:10.570
And I think we want the longer one.

00:19:10.570 --> 00:19:11.807
I'm forgetting the
numbers now, but I think we

00:19:11.807 --> 00:19:15.193
want to give you more
time to, to get this done.

00:19:16.716 --> 00:19:17.916
<v ->Yeah</v>

00:19:17.916 --> 00:19:19.393
<v ->Okay. Let's see.</v>

00:19:20.480 --> 00:19:22.950
We have from the IMM this morning

00:19:24.108 --> 00:19:28.140
a request for clarification
on our, our order

00:19:28.140 --> 00:19:31.000
our clawback order that
we issued two days ago

00:19:31.000 --> 00:19:32.947
the clarification makes sense to me.

00:19:32.947 --> 00:19:34.016
<v ->I'm fine with it also. Yeah.</v>

00:19:34.016 --> 00:19:35.960
<v ->Okay. So then in that case, I,</v>

00:19:35.960 --> 00:19:37.190
Steven, do we need a motion,

00:19:37.190 --> 00:19:39.323
or can we just direct you
to add this to our order?

00:19:39.323 --> 00:19:40.498
How does that work?

00:19:40.498 --> 00:19:42.213
<v ->Sir, I think you should.</v>

00:19:42.213 --> 00:19:45.570
I think you should move
to adopt a new order that

00:19:45.570 --> 00:19:48.098
that reflects this order
in paragraph to super

00:19:48.098 --> 00:19:52.040
and to rescind our previous
and supersede it with this one.

00:19:52.040 --> 00:19:55.210
<v ->Okay. I move, we
supersede our previous order</v>

00:19:55.210 --> 00:19:57.910
with an order that includes
this clarifying paragraph

00:19:57.910 --> 00:19:58.750
from the IMM.

00:19:58.750 --> 00:19:59.810
<v ->Second.</v>

00:19:59.810 --> 00:20:00.643
<v ->Thank you.</v>

00:20:01.507 --> 00:20:03.940
Okay. I think I just
have one last thing here

00:20:03.940 --> 00:20:07.670
and I kind of saved it for
last because it's, for me

00:20:07.670 --> 00:20:10.030
at least, the biggest,
and that's, you know,

00:20:10.030 --> 00:20:14.070
we've got a bunch of
repricing requests from the IMM

00:20:14.070 --> 00:20:17.133
and I, you know, I, I think
these are difficult decisions

00:20:17.133 --> 00:20:19.720
and they always have been, you know

00:20:19.720 --> 00:20:23.050
back in the good old days
when our repricing disputes for

00:20:23.050 --> 00:20:26.741
for tens of millions
of dollars, I didn't like

00:20:26.741 --> 00:20:31.189
repricing then because it, it
upset settled expectations,

00:20:31.189 --> 00:20:33.650
And because we have no idea,

00:20:33.650 --> 00:20:35.928
what's, we just see
the tip of the iceberg.

00:20:35.928 --> 00:20:39.920
We don't see all the hedges
and stuff beneath the surface.

00:20:39.920 --> 00:20:42.660
And so you don't know who
you're hurting and you, you

00:20:42.660 --> 00:20:45.210
you know, you think you're
protecting the consumer

00:20:45.210 --> 00:20:46.860
and it turns out you're, you know

00:20:46.860 --> 00:20:49.680
you're bankrupting a co-op or a city.

00:20:49.680 --> 00:20:51.790
And so it's, it's dangerous to do

00:20:51.790 --> 00:20:55.650
after something is run
to go around and redo it.

00:20:55.650 --> 00:20:57.950
So that's sort of my
baseline, but you know

00:20:57.950 --> 00:20:59.550
the IMM raised some good points,

00:21:00.659 --> 00:21:02.209
and I think they're very interesting,

00:21:02.209 --> 00:21:05.257
And so we definitely should
consider them, but at least on

00:21:05.257 --> 00:21:07.980
putting aside the
ancillary service repricing

00:21:07.980 --> 00:21:11.760
request that, I think
we don't have to act on

00:21:11.760 --> 00:21:15.711
The IMM's one about
repricing that last day,

00:21:15.711 --> 00:21:17.653
repricing the energy market,

00:21:18.649 --> 00:21:21.349
I mean, it's my understanding
that ice needs an answer

00:21:23.110 --> 00:21:25.620
unless we want it to really
disrupt the ice markets.

00:21:25.620 --> 00:21:26.530
They need a deadline.

00:21:26.530 --> 00:21:28.253
Their deadline is today at four.

00:21:30.151 --> 00:21:32.920
And so we would have to decide that now

00:21:32.920 --> 00:21:34.260
if we wanted to reprice that

00:21:34.260 --> 00:21:36.600
and I'm not inclined to do it today

00:21:36.600 --> 00:21:39.800
because for the reasons I
said, I think that, you know

00:21:41.203 --> 00:21:44.620
there were these prices
decisions were made

00:21:44.620 --> 00:21:47.320
about these prices in real time

00:21:47.320 --> 00:21:50.960
based on information that
was available to everybody,

00:21:50.960 --> 00:21:53.760
to all market participants,
And they did all sorts

00:21:53.760 --> 00:21:55.640
of things that they wouldn't have done

00:21:55.640 --> 00:21:57.887
if the prices were different,

00:21:57.887 --> 00:22:00.540
And it's just nearly impossible
to unscramble this sort

00:22:00.540 --> 00:22:02.920
of egg, and the results

00:22:02.920 --> 00:22:05.580
of going down this path are unknowable.

00:22:05.580 --> 00:22:08.530
I know on the surface,
it looks like, oh no

00:22:08.530 --> 00:22:10.620
it's just money that the generators got,

00:22:10.620 --> 00:22:14.020
And if you reverse it, it
won't go to the consumers,

00:22:14.020 --> 00:22:17.293
but that is very simplistic,
and it's not how it works,

00:22:17.293 --> 00:22:19.790
And if you pay attention,
who's advocating

00:22:19.790 --> 00:22:22.733
for and against this, you'll
see that because there are,

00:22:22.733 --> 00:22:25.640
there are people representing consumers

00:22:25.640 --> 00:22:27.100
on both sides of these questions.

00:22:27.100 --> 00:22:28.450
There are people looking out

00:22:28.450 --> 00:22:30.990
for consumers who
don't want us to reprice

00:22:30.990 --> 00:22:32.170
and there are a lot

00:22:32.170 --> 00:22:34.550
of consumers that
could be hurt by repricing.

00:22:34.550 --> 00:22:36.780
And the reason for
that is very complicated

00:22:36.780 --> 00:22:37.690
but it's mostly got to do

00:22:37.690 --> 00:22:39.950
with a bunch of private arrangements

00:22:39.950 --> 00:22:42.900
and transactions that
happen outside of the market.

00:22:42.900 --> 00:22:44.990
And those, there are a lot more of those

00:22:44.990 --> 00:22:46.990
than there are
transactions in the market.

00:22:46.990 --> 00:22:50.103
And so, because of that, I'm
reluctant to go down this path

00:22:50.103 --> 00:22:51.970
we've already set a path.

00:22:51.970 --> 00:22:55.160
We know who could,
who, who it looks like,

00:22:55.160 --> 00:22:56.020
who is hurt by that,

00:22:56.020 --> 00:22:59.110
And we can focus on
helping the people that were

00:22:59.110 --> 00:23:02.133
hurt instead of focusing,
instead of throwing everything up

00:23:02.133 --> 00:23:05.200
in the air again, creating
another huge mess.

00:23:05.200 --> 00:23:06.710
And then, you know, a
month from now, we'll have

00:23:06.710 --> 00:23:08.484
a different set of people that are hurt

00:23:08.484 --> 00:23:09.750
and we have to focus on helping them.

00:23:09.750 --> 00:23:11.050
So that's sort of where I'm at,

00:23:11.050 --> 00:23:13.220
but I acknowledge
it's a very difficult call.

00:23:13.220 --> 00:23:14.963
<v ->Agreed, completely agree.</v>

00:23:16.390 --> 00:23:18.080
Yeah. I know we've had a lot of filings,

00:23:18.080 --> 00:23:20.350
you know, supporting
this or that action,

00:23:20.350 --> 00:23:22.510
And I know that every time we don't act

00:23:22.510 --> 00:23:27.510
on something that, that is,
you know, it causes uncertainty.

00:23:28.480 --> 00:23:31.610
Right? And so I would not want to say

00:23:31.610 --> 00:23:36.040
that I would never, well, you know

00:23:36.040 --> 00:23:39.300
I think repricing the energy,
I'm probably more inclined

00:23:39.300 --> 00:23:42.480
to just, let's just say, well,
we're not going to do that.

00:23:42.480 --> 00:23:46.821
The ancillary services one
I, you know, I, I can get there

00:23:46.821 --> 00:23:49.060
but on the other hand, kind of

00:23:49.060 --> 00:23:51.990
for the same reasons, you
know, like you could argue, well

00:23:51.990 --> 00:23:54.370
if you're okay with
repricing, then just do all of it.

00:23:54.370 --> 00:23:57.808
Or if you're against it, then
you know, don't do any of it.

00:23:57.808 --> 00:24:02.010
So anyway, I do think we
should acknowledge that

00:24:02.010 --> 00:24:04.400
we got, I mean, obviously
there's a lot of feedback

00:24:04.400 --> 00:24:07.880
and the Senate testimony
yesterday and the state of affairs

00:24:08.970 --> 00:24:12.210
but do you want to mention the letter?

00:24:12.210 --> 00:24:14.060
<v ->Yes, absolutely. I was
definitely going to do that.</v>

00:24:14.060 --> 00:24:15.200
We did, we did get a letter

00:24:15.200 --> 00:24:17.650
from Senator Springer
addressing this issue.

00:24:17.650 --> 00:24:20.162
And I'm so grateful
for legislative feedback

00:24:20.162 --> 00:24:22.722
on these questions
because I don't, you know, I

00:24:22.722 --> 00:24:25.050
as I know you said to them a bunch

00:24:25.050 --> 00:24:27.100
and I've said to them over
and over again, you know

00:24:27.100 --> 00:24:31.610
on this question right now,
you know, I, I, we need to

00:24:31.610 --> 00:24:34.410
be more just standing
shoulder to shoulder with them.

00:24:34.410 --> 00:24:36.680
There cannot be any
daylight between us and

00:24:36.680 --> 00:24:37.710
and that's communication.

00:24:37.710 --> 00:24:39.380
That's me calling
them until they're sick of

00:24:39.380 --> 00:24:40.490
hearing from me.

00:24:40.490 --> 00:24:43.867
And then them sending
letters like this and it, because

00:24:43.867 --> 00:24:47.438
you know, we just have to,
you know, and, and in fact

00:24:47.438 --> 00:24:51.660
I don't really intend to,
you know, on my part.

00:24:51.660 --> 00:24:54.387
I don't intend to make
any huge decisions without

00:24:54.387 --> 00:24:57.049
talking to all of them first.

00:24:57.049 --> 00:25:00.040
And so, and that's
kind of where I stand.

00:25:00.040 --> 00:25:02.190
So I appreciate this comment

00:25:02.190 --> 00:25:03.880
and I hope what I have,
what I've said today

00:25:03.880 --> 00:25:07.260
sort of addresses why
I'm reluctant to reprice.

00:25:07.260 --> 00:25:08.851
I don't think it, it

00:25:08.851 --> 00:25:11.770
I totally get how it looks like
you're protecting consumers

00:25:11.770 --> 00:25:13.490
but I promise you you're not.

00:25:13.490 --> 00:25:14.660
And if you don't believe me, you know

00:25:14.660 --> 00:25:16.480
call around and you'll, you'll see.

00:25:16.480 --> 00:25:20.393
<v ->Mhmm. Mhmm. Okay.</v>

00:25:21.234 --> 00:25:24.510
<v ->Okay. I think
that's all I have,</v>

00:25:24.510 --> 00:25:26.600
but so just to clarify,
I'm with you, let's

00:25:26.600 --> 00:25:28.400
let's, the ancillary
service thing is different.

00:25:28.400 --> 00:25:29.430
There's no deadline for that.

00:25:29.430 --> 00:25:31.410
We don't have to, we
can kind of put that on hold

00:25:31.410 --> 00:25:33.270
but the energy only
thing is the one that the

00:25:33.270 --> 00:25:36.140
energy market is the one
that has the deadline today.

00:25:36.140 --> 00:25:37.344
And I say we don't act.

00:25:37.344 --> 00:25:38.177
<v ->Mhmm.</v>

00:25:38.177 --> 00:25:39.090
<v ->Okay. Perfect.</v>

00:25:39.090 --> 00:25:40.990
Do you have anything else, Shelly?

00:25:40.990 --> 00:25:41.823
<v ->I do not.</v>

00:25:43.503 --> 00:25:44.803
Okay. Steven, are we good?

00:25:45.776 --> 00:25:46.770
Oh boy.

00:25:46.770 --> 00:25:47.870
You're scowling at me.

00:25:50.377 --> 00:25:53.066
<v ->I'm trying to be
deliberate here, sir.</v>

00:25:53.066 --> 00:25:55.173
And not open my mouth to say,

00:25:57.541 --> 00:26:02.541
I, I, don't think I have
anything else to bring to you.

00:26:05.576 --> 00:26:08.173
<v ->Okay. Do, should we
adjourn or should we recess?</v>

00:26:09.150 --> 00:26:10.440
<v ->The only reason I had talked</v>

00:26:10.440 --> 00:26:13.030
to you about that was the,
the filing, getting the filing.

00:26:13.030 --> 00:26:15.828
So we got it. We've
done. We've acted on that.

00:26:15.828 --> 00:26:19.576
So I think we're good to
adjourn if that's what you want.

00:26:19.576 --> 00:26:21.690
<v ->Okay. If y'all need a
minute to think about it</v>

00:26:22.645 --> 00:26:24.030
we can recess for 10,
15 minutes. Up to you.

00:26:24.030 --> 00:26:27.400
<v ->No, no, no, the recess was
simply the IMM filing company</v>

00:26:27.400 --> 00:26:28.540
getting it filed this morning.

00:26:28.540 --> 00:26:30.806
And so it's here.

00:26:30.806 --> 00:26:32.940
<v ->Okay. Well with
that, this meeting</v>

00:26:32.940 --> 00:26:35.690
of the public utility Commission
of Texas is adjourned.