WEBVTT
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Good afternoon.
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I call to order
docket number 51547
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case style joint report and application
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Texas-New Mexico Power
Company, NM Green Holdings,
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and admin grid for regulatory
approvals under PURA.
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My name is Hunter Burkhalter.
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This is a pre-hearing
conference being held
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on March 19, 2021,
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it's being held via video conference.
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If anybody's having
difficulty hearing me
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let me know, raise
your hand or let me know
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and I'll try to fix that.
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There's a lot of folks on the line.
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I can see you're doing
a good job already.
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I ask that you keep your computer muted
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when you don't need to speak
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just to make it easier for all of us.
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Let me take appearances
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and I'll just identify each party
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rather than having everybody
speak over each other.
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So let me begin with TNMP please.
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Good afternoon, your honor.
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Carrie McGrath, Scott steams.
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Seamster for Texas-New
Mexico Power Company.
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Okay.
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I haven't grid in NM Green Holdings.
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Afternoon your honor,
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Andy caver and deal more
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with any Keever and David Schwartz
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was like them and walk-ins.
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Let's see TIEC.
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Afternoon, your honor.
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Michael McMillan for TIEC.
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Opuck.
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Anybody here for Opuck?
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Chris is here.
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He's muted.
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There he is.
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Good afternoon, Judge.
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I'm Chris, I come from Opuck.
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Welcome.
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City served by Tan NP.
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Good afternoon, your honor.
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This is Taylor Dennison
on behalf of cities.
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Alliance for retail markets.
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Eric Brown for Alliance
for retail markets.
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Walmart.
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Good afternoon, Julie
Clark on behalf of Walmart.
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Texas Energy
Association for Marketers.
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Good afternoon, your honor.
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Stephanie Culver on behalf of TEAM.
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And Commission staff.
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Good afternoon, your honor.
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Crane McMurry and Eleanor Denver Rosio
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hearing on behalf of Commission staff.
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Welcome to you all.
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Thanks for making yourself available.
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Have I missed anybody?
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Is there any party who needs
to make an appearance?
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Who I haven't called on?
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Okay.
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I saw your filing.
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Congratulations on your
unanimous settlement,
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we'll talk about that in a little bit.
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I don't believe there's
any other pending motions,
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anything that needs
my attention to this time.
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Does anybody disagree with that?
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No, sir.
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We're now aware of pending motions.
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I'm assuming in spite
of the fact that you will
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you still want to admit your exhibits.
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You have the unit of a settlement,
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but I assume you're willing to proceed
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with the admission of your exhibits.
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Yes your honor, please.
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Okay. Well let's do that.
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I'll just call on each party
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and allow the attorney
to move for admission of
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of his or her exhibit.
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So let's start with TNMP.
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Your Honor, I don't have
my exhibit list in front of me
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but TNMP is offering
the STM application,
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the direct testimony of four witnesses
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Neil Walker, Henry Monroe,
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Stacy Whitehurst
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and rebuttal testimony
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of Henry Monroe, Stacy
Whitehurst and Hilary Lampson.
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All right. Thank you.
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So I have your list here
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and it looks like it's exhibit...
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It's TNMP exhibits one
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through seven, seven,
eight, and eight and nine.
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Is there any objection to the
admission of those exhibits?
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They are all admitted.
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Okay.
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Avangrid.
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Your honor, we offer
Avangrid exhibits one through six
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exhibit a to the application,
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the STM application
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the direct and rebuttal
testimony of Mr. Zagara,
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the director and rebuttal
testimony of Mr.Com
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and the rebuttal testimony of John Reed.
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Thank you.
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Is there any objection
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to the admission of Avangrid
exhibits one through six?
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They're all admitted.
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TIEC.
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Your honor, I move for the
admission of TIEC exhibit one
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which is the direct testimony
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and work papers are of
Charles Griffey and exhibit 1a
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which is the HSPM version of those.
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Thank you.
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Any objection to TIEC one and 1a.
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They're both admitted.
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Alliance for Retail Markets.
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Your Honor ARM
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moves to introduce exhibit one
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which is the direct
testimony of Dr. Foyer.
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Any objection?
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It's admitted.
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Walmart.
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Counsel for Walmart?
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Sorry, I was still muted.
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Walmart moves for admission
of Walmart exhibit number one
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which is the direct
testimony and exhibit
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of Alex Crone hour.
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Thank you.
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Any objections?
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It's admitted.
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Commissioner staff.
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Yes, your honor.
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Staff moves for the admission
of exhibit number one
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the direct testimony of David Battista,
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exhibit number two direct
testimony of William habits.
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Exhibit number three, the
direct testimony of Caroline Barry
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with Arata 3A with direct
testimony at Carolyn Barry
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3B confidential direct
testimony of Caroline Barry
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and 3C the confidential work papers
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to direct testimony of Carolyn Berry.
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Thank you.
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Any objections?
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They're all admitted.
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All right.
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Have I missed anybody?
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Anybody else have exhibits
they're hoping to offer?
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Okay.
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We have less to talk about
because you've settled.
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I'm assuming there's
no reason to proceed
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to hearing next week.
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Is there any reason to
proceed to hearing next week?
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Sounds like not.
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Mr...
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Let's see, who sent me the letter?
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I think it was Mr. Caver.
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Was it you that...
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Yes, Mr. Caver, can
you sort of bring me up
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to speed on your settlement?
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Sure.
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Thank you, your honor.
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The parties have reached agreement
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on a settlement that
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constitutes a revised set
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of regulatory commitments.
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All of those regulatory
commitments have been agreed to
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and the wording has been agreed too.
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The only wording that we're
still tweaking is the issue
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that's always the last one in the queue
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and that's managing the
process or the delivery
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of the right credits through
the reps to the end users.
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Staff is leading that process.
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We've met once already today.
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We'll meet again this afternoon.
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I expect we we'll wrap that issue up.
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We should be in a
position hopefully Monday
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to file the signed stipulation.
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We've circulated
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a draft order
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for folks to review.
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So that part of the
package should be available.
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Okay.
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Testimony in--
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Testimony we anticipate
would be filed early next week.
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We haven't had time
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today to visit with the
parties about that timing.
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So if you wanna give us
an opportunity to do that
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while we're all gathered,
we can, it's up to you.
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So you're saying
you would be offering
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supplemental testimony in
support of this settlement?
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Yes, we will
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Can I just say
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Can we set a deadline for that by close,
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let's say we start on a Wednesday.
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Can we say by noon, Tuesday.
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We Avangrid
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can make that.
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Let me just let y'all talk.
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I don't think I need to decide.
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I think we need, I think
what I'm hearing and
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I'm open for discussion.
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I'm open for ideas
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but I think what I'm hearing is it's,
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I guess a unanimous settlement
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but not a complete settlement.
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There's still unresolved issues--
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No, I'm sorry if I left that
impression, your honor,
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the process is just one that
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the reps need to be
sure that there's clarity
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on with the TDU.
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And they're just going through
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the steps of assuring a
common understanding
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of the timing
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and the process.
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There's no disagreement that I know of
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about how it will be done there.
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They just have to develop that process
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but staff may want to speak to that.
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I have to.
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Okay, this is Eleanor
D'Ambrosio for permission staff.
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I think and we may need to discuss this
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but I think the guidance
that we need from your Honor
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at this point is in terms of timing,
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due to the fact that there
is a statutory deadline
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for approval of this application.
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When is it most advantageous for you
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to receive a full final
settlement package that is filed
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that includes a stipulation
and settlement testimony
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in support of that
stipulation and settlement,
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and a proposed order?
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I apologize if I sound Touche,
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but I assume the goal here
is to have a final settlement
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that resolves all issues
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final agreement that
resolves all issues.
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And therefore there's no
need for the hearing next week.
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We are living in tumultuous times,
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so I can't speak for the Commission,
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but as it sits right now
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we're set to go to hearing
starting Wednesday.
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So I think probably I say I
volunteered noon of Tuesday
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but I think I'm going to rethink that
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and save that close
of business on Monday.
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That's of course, one
business day from now,
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but it seemed to me,
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if y'all could file
what you need to file
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by close business Monday,
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that gives us sufficient
time to react to it Tuesday
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and determine whether there's any need
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for a hearing to start Wednesday.
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That's separate.
00:13:37.988 --> 00:13:40.190
That seems
reasonable, your honor.
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I think certainly from
the applicants concern
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we can do that.
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I can't speak for the other parties.
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All right.
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I was gonna swear in witnesses.
00:13:49.540 --> 00:13:52.600
I was gonna talk to you
about time a lot months
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and then the protective order and so on.
00:13:55.970 --> 00:13:58.025
I don't think I'mma do that.
00:13:58.025 --> 00:14:00.720
I don't think it's necessary to do that.
00:14:00.720 --> 00:14:03.660
And which means I've run
out of things to talk about.
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Is there anything else
that we need to talk about
00:14:05.920 --> 00:14:07.773
from anybody's perspective?
00:14:11.710 --> 00:14:13.413
May I ask the question?
00:14:14.510 --> 00:14:16.040
Sure.
00:14:16.040 --> 00:14:18.870
You probably I need
to come up to the mic.
00:14:18.870 --> 00:14:22.493
You sit down.
00:14:24.750 --> 00:14:25.583
Yes.
00:14:27.195 --> 00:14:30.112
This is Steven with the Commission.
00:14:33.530 --> 00:14:36.820
If we were looking at putting
a settlement package together
00:14:36.820 --> 00:14:38.620
and giving you a grade of a hundred,
00:14:40.050 --> 00:14:42.603
can that be done if
you follow it on Monday?
00:14:43.760 --> 00:14:46.430
And if not, how many
more days would you need
00:14:47.300 --> 00:14:51.513
to be able to file something
we can grade at a hundred?
00:14:56.867 --> 00:14:59.553
Steven I can't imagine
you couldn't give us a grade
00:14:59.553 --> 00:15:01.163
of a hundred Monday,
00:15:03.210 --> 00:15:07.753
but if the other parties
would lock an extra day
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or two,
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I mean, I don't...
00:15:13.411 --> 00:15:14.570
as a site we haven't had an opportunity
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to really talk about I
don't know whether
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staff is
00:15:21.350 --> 00:15:26.350
in a position to file
testimony by Monday or not.
00:15:27.059 --> 00:15:28.910
what we anticipate
00:15:32.000 --> 00:15:33.510
the supplemental testimony
00:15:35.421 --> 00:15:37.390
would be one witness
00:15:39.654 --> 00:15:42.540
from Texas-New Mexico,
one witness from Avangrid
00:15:42.540 --> 00:15:46.123
and one witness from
staff supporting stipulation.
00:15:51.280 --> 00:15:52.770
Eleanor may want to speak
00:15:54.920 --> 00:15:55.753
to her time--
00:15:55.753 --> 00:15:58.460
I don't think she does but
I'm gonna call on her anyway.
00:16:00.970 --> 00:16:04.547
It would certainly help
if staff had until noon
00:16:05.721 --> 00:16:08.320
on Tuesday (laughing)
00:16:08.320 --> 00:16:11.690
to get the testimony finalized.
00:16:11.690 --> 00:16:15.763
And then I would just
say, from my experience,
00:16:16.980 --> 00:16:18.850
the sort of most time consuming part
00:16:18.850 --> 00:16:21.600
of the settlement packages
is the proposed order.
00:16:21.600 --> 00:16:26.600
And so I would suggest
that if we were to delay...
00:16:26.850 --> 00:16:29.290
if we were to delay anything else
00:16:29.290 --> 00:16:32.550
it would be the filing
of the proposed order
00:16:32.550 --> 00:16:34.763
so that we could get a hundred on that.
00:16:40.338 --> 00:16:43.911
This is my scheduled
at nine on Wednesday
00:16:43.911 --> 00:16:44.943
Right?
00:16:47.840 --> 00:16:49.500
This is Michael
McMillan for TIEC.
00:16:49.500 --> 00:16:50.810
If I could cut in, I mean
00:16:50.810 --> 00:16:53.860
we were scheduled to start
this hearing on Wednesday
00:16:53.860 --> 00:16:56.150
but the open meetings already scheduled
00:16:56.150 --> 00:16:58.680
and blocked off through Friday.
00:16:58.680 --> 00:17:00.627
So, I mean, in theory,
couldn't we provide you
00:17:00.627 --> 00:17:02.133
with the documents, give you a couple
00:17:02.133 --> 00:17:05.630
of days where we would
have otherwise been in hearing
00:17:05.630 --> 00:17:08.773
and then approve them
and finalize them on Friday?
00:17:11.910 --> 00:17:12.743
Sure.
00:17:14.967 --> 00:17:15.800
I'm sorry.
00:17:15.800 --> 00:17:18.050
Finalizing you mean you finalize them
00:17:18.050 --> 00:17:19.440
and file them on Friday?
00:17:19.440 --> 00:17:21.620
No, we finalize and file on,
00:17:21.620 --> 00:17:24.040
say Wednesday morning--
00:17:24.040 --> 00:17:26.900
You mean at the Commission
you finalize on Friday.
00:17:26.900 --> 00:17:30.690
Yes, If the intention was
for us to get documents
00:17:30.690 --> 00:17:35.180
and have y'all finalize them
and have Commissioner,
00:17:35.180 --> 00:17:37.880
D'Andrea look at them on Wednesday.
00:17:37.880 --> 00:17:39.400
If we just push that to Friday,
00:17:39.400 --> 00:17:40.800
that that buys us some time.
00:17:47.062 --> 00:17:49.270
We understand that that's ambitious,
00:17:49.270 --> 00:17:50.440
but we were thinking
00:17:50.440 --> 00:17:52.550
about the possibility of
getting an order signed
00:17:52.550 --> 00:17:56.100
during the notice hearing next week,
00:17:56.100 --> 00:17:57.623
if that's achievable.
00:18:00.350 --> 00:18:02.350
Well, right now in
this imaginary world
00:18:02.350 --> 00:18:04.507
everything's achievable.
00:18:04.507 --> 00:18:07.980
But if you want to be a
little more practical about it
00:18:10.450 --> 00:18:12.730
I wouldn't bet much money on next week
00:18:14.980 --> 00:18:18.350
but it's difficult to tell
you all a single thing
00:18:18.350 --> 00:18:21.170
because it is difficult
to have a conversation
00:18:23.600 --> 00:18:26.509
with our Commission or ours
00:18:26.509 --> 00:18:29.850
depending on what time of day it is.
00:18:29.850 --> 00:18:31.160
And which day of the week.
00:18:31.160 --> 00:18:32.410
(laughing)
00:18:32.410 --> 00:18:33.440
Understood.
00:18:33.440 --> 00:18:36.266
We might take this off your plate
00:18:36.266 --> 00:18:38.670
by getting assigned
during the notice hearing.
00:18:38.670 --> 00:18:41.950
But I do understand that's ambitious.
00:18:41.950 --> 00:18:45.787
And so I think there's
a good possibility
00:18:45.787 --> 00:18:49.230
that this is gonna be evaluated by
00:18:50.400 --> 00:18:51.453
new people.
00:18:54.930 --> 00:18:57.630
Which is why I'm asking
00:18:57.630 --> 00:19:01.324
about something that we
can give you a hundred to.
00:19:01.324 --> 00:19:02.157
I think that
00:19:05.443 --> 00:19:10.057
if we get new Commissioners
this afternoon or on Monday,
00:19:15.251 --> 00:19:17.501
they're gonna be real green
00:19:18.415 --> 00:19:20.900
and they're gonna need a
really clean package to look at
00:19:20.900 --> 00:19:22.673
if we try and do this.
00:19:24.220 --> 00:19:27.450
And you're all aware
that this is still...
00:19:31.657 --> 00:19:33.610
I don't know if we're
getting Commissioners
00:19:33.610 --> 00:19:36.923
on Monday or Tuesday
or next week at all.
00:19:40.720 --> 00:19:44.140
And so it's difficult to give
you much certainty here.
00:19:45.990 --> 00:19:47.323
Schedule wise,
00:19:49.360 --> 00:19:51.650
we are scheduled for a
hearing on Wednesday.
00:19:51.650 --> 00:19:52.820
We all know that
00:19:59.829 --> 00:20:03.504
and I'm not sure how
much of the $60 scotch
00:20:03.504 --> 00:20:06.240
I'll have to drink before
I'm willing to decide
00:20:06.240 --> 00:20:07.990
to cancel a Commissioner's hearing
00:20:07.990 --> 00:20:12.293
without being authorized to do so.
00:20:16.920 --> 00:20:17.753
Steven,
00:20:19.310 --> 00:20:21.113
I appreciate the uncertainty.
00:20:24.520 --> 00:20:28.750
If the Governor were to
make an appointment tonight
00:20:29.610 --> 00:20:32.970
the Senate still needs to confirm them
00:20:32.970 --> 00:20:34.870
before they're able to...
00:20:35.800 --> 00:20:39.510
to sit and act as Commissioner
00:20:40.429 --> 00:20:43.280
They gotta be confirmed
and they have to be trained.
00:20:43.280 --> 00:20:44.560
to have to go through
their training program
00:20:44.560 --> 00:20:45.990
before they can act too.
00:20:45.990 --> 00:20:47.833
Although it's pretty put together.
00:20:50.587 --> 00:20:55.110
Now, if the chairman
continues to serve until
00:20:57.770 --> 00:21:01.690
his successor is confirmed,
as opposed to appointed
00:21:01.690 --> 00:21:06.632
as it said in his resignation
letter, then I think the odds
00:21:06.632 --> 00:21:10.293
of him being here next
week are pretty good.
00:21:13.720 --> 00:21:17.430
And we ought to be in a
position for him to hear this
00:21:20.650 --> 00:21:23.110
and answer any questions
00:21:24.670 --> 00:21:26.593
that he might have on Friday.
00:21:28.630 --> 00:21:30.393
I think Michael's right.
00:21:31.940 --> 00:21:34.050
We have the opportunity
00:21:35.050 --> 00:21:38.350
since the time's already
saved on his calendar
00:21:41.050 --> 00:21:43.583
to make the present
patient to him on Friday.
00:21:47.260 --> 00:21:49.250
It's because of the uncertainty
00:21:51.155 --> 00:21:54.810
that I think we ought
to try and hit that date.
00:21:54.810 --> 00:21:59.080
Now, you know we might
move heaven and earth
00:22:00.193 --> 00:22:02.470
and get there and something else happens
00:22:02.470 --> 00:22:07.470
and he's not hearing him
and we have to reschedule,
00:22:07.500 --> 00:22:10.890
but if there's an opportunity
00:22:13.250 --> 00:22:15.980
as somebody said get this off his plate
00:22:17.010 --> 00:22:18.150
and off of your plate
00:22:19.360 --> 00:22:22.113
we really ought to
try and do it, I think.
00:22:23.300 --> 00:22:25.230
So what if we say right now
00:22:25.230 --> 00:22:28.390
that we're shooting for noon on Tuesday
00:22:30.042 --> 00:22:33.410
but we are continuing
to make efforts to, I mean
00:22:33.410 --> 00:22:36.370
this is not the only
matter that is sitting on the
00:22:38.090 --> 00:22:41.728
the apex of our pyramid
of power over here
00:22:41.728 --> 00:22:42.630
(laughing)
00:22:42.630 --> 00:22:47.630
Our pyramid of no power
that we're trying to figure out
00:22:49.130 --> 00:22:50.973
can we move it or not?
00:22:53.840 --> 00:22:56.720
And just leave it with
that, I'll tell you this
00:22:56.720 --> 00:23:00.335
it might be, if there is certainty
one way or another one
00:23:00.335 --> 00:23:05.200
one certainty would be,
it's just not going to happen.
00:23:05.200 --> 00:23:06.410
And we would let you know
00:23:06.410 --> 00:23:10.003
and then if we need to give
more time next week we could,
00:23:10.003 --> 00:23:14.563
our other certainty is
yes, we're gonna do it
00:23:14.563 --> 00:23:17.600
on Wednesday or Thursday or Friday
00:23:20.010 --> 00:23:23.913
with the current chairman
or with our new chairman,
00:23:25.160 --> 00:23:27.220
whoever that might be.
00:23:27.220 --> 00:23:29.140
I see that event
00:23:32.530 --> 00:23:34.143
to be improbable.
00:23:36.674 --> 00:23:37.907
I agree with that
00:23:40.460 --> 00:23:42.857
But if they're a
glutton for punishment,
00:23:42.857 --> 00:23:46.670
we can spend 48 hours
straight with the fire hose
00:23:46.670 --> 00:23:49.169
in their mouth and we can
put a lot of water in them.
00:23:49.169 --> 00:23:51.419
(laughing)
00:23:52.410 --> 00:23:56.210
So I don't know, does
that sound right now?
00:23:56.210 --> 00:23:59.660
This is go for Tuesday
noon and understanding
00:23:59.660 --> 00:24:03.290
that events are gonna transpire sometime
00:24:03.290 --> 00:24:04.810
that may make that
00:24:07.753 --> 00:24:09.643
a not important deadline.
00:24:12.319 --> 00:24:16.670
And so Steven, what
you're thinking then is
00:24:16.670 --> 00:24:20.660
that we would file the
package at noon Tuesday
00:24:22.693 --> 00:24:26.550
and then at nine
o'clock on Friday morning
00:24:29.515 --> 00:24:32.163
subject to you calling
and telling us, nevermind.
00:24:33.160 --> 00:24:37.150
Nine o'clock on Friday
morning, we would expect to
00:24:39.380 --> 00:24:40.213
to gather
00:24:45.401 --> 00:24:47.410
and try to process the...
00:24:47.410 --> 00:24:48.880
the settlement at that point.
00:24:48.880 --> 00:24:51.190
Is that what you're thinking?
00:24:51.190 --> 00:24:54.860
I'm sort of thinking y'all
fall at noon on Tuesday
00:24:54.860 --> 00:24:58.410
and then we will, at some point tell you
00:24:58.410 --> 00:25:01.490
whether we're gonna
convene on Wednesday at nine
00:25:01.490 --> 00:25:05.440
and how often we send
something out to y'all.
00:25:05.440 --> 00:25:07.730
At some point, we're
gonna have to decide
00:25:07.730 --> 00:25:09.440
whether Wednesday's doable or not
00:25:09.440 --> 00:25:12.060
and either pull the plug or not,
00:25:12.060 --> 00:25:13.830
which then moves us to Thursday.
00:25:13.830 --> 00:25:15.030
And then at some point
00:25:15.030 --> 00:25:18.590
we'd have to tell you what's
gonna happen on Thursday.
00:25:18.590 --> 00:25:21.223
And at some point there,
we gotta pull the plug.
00:25:22.160 --> 00:25:24.163
And then that leaves us with Friday.
00:25:28.300 --> 00:25:30.010
Or it may be that something transpires
00:25:30.010 --> 00:25:31.320
and we can tell you early on
00:25:31.320 --> 00:25:34.380
before all we'll pull all three
plugs at once and just go
00:25:35.967 --> 00:25:39.240
okay, we've got a
new train on the tracks
00:25:39.240 --> 00:25:41.343
and we're gonna start
a new schedule here.
00:25:42.408 --> 00:25:45.130
I'm just kinda thinking
all the permutations
00:25:45.130 --> 00:25:47.787
even though some of
them, I'm just thinking,
00:25:47.787 --> 00:25:50.560
are autistic or are near
they're so improbable
00:25:50.560 --> 00:25:52.950
they're really kind of
stupid to even think about
00:25:54.836 --> 00:25:57.040
but I don't feel like
I can just sit here
00:25:57.040 --> 00:25:59.730
and make decisions
to cancel your hearing
00:25:59.730 --> 00:26:02.380
or tell you it's gonna
convene on Friday, either way.
00:26:04.950 --> 00:26:08.660
Because as soon as someone
walks in the door who's in charge
00:26:08.660 --> 00:26:10.350
we're gonna have to sit
down and explain it to them.
00:26:10.350 --> 00:26:12.693
And they're gonna have
to tell us what they want.
00:26:17.640 --> 00:26:18.713
So I don't think I have
anything better to offer
00:26:21.320 --> 00:26:22.153
at this point.
00:26:26.060 --> 00:26:27.496
Okay.
00:26:27.496 --> 00:26:29.575
Maybe I could give you to one.
00:26:29.575 --> 00:26:31.825
(laughing)
00:26:36.540 --> 00:26:39.096
Okay, so then the parties
00:26:39.096 --> 00:26:41.260
are ordered to file
00:26:43.213 --> 00:26:44.540
their agreement package
00:26:44.540 --> 00:26:47.170
which would be
supplemental testimony motion
00:26:47.170 --> 00:26:49.320
to admit that sub
supplemental testimony.
00:26:49.320 --> 00:26:53.920
And it sounds like a proposed
order by noon on Tuesday.
00:26:53.920 --> 00:26:56.360
I'm not gonna issue an
order memorializing that
00:26:56.360 --> 00:26:59.223
cause it just told you on the record.
00:27:00.380 --> 00:27:02.853
And as Stephen said,
00:27:04.437 --> 00:27:07.630
as we know more we will
endeavor to share it with you
00:27:07.630 --> 00:27:08.750
as fast as we can
00:27:10.747 --> 00:27:13.280
and we'll work our
way through next week.
00:27:13.280 --> 00:27:15.380
Is there anything else
we need to discuss?
00:27:17.310 --> 00:27:19.970
Thank you all very much for
making yourselves available.
00:27:19.970 --> 00:27:21.920
Have a great weekend, we are adjourned.