(speaking in a foreign language)
-: Good afternoon, everyone.
And thank you so much for taking the time
to participate today on such a
critical issue for us during these
times of the importance of connectivity
including our community members who are in
our incarcerated facilities or prisons
or jails and other detention facilities.
We've opened this rulemaking to address
the potential unjust burden on inmates
and their families of the
inappropriately priced telecommunications services.
We are aware that given the population
in the state this particularly
results in a racial discrepancy
on our population as well.
We're working hard to really investigate
the costs and the charges that are bore
by our inmates and incarcerated community
and their families, in order to determine what the
appropriate course of action will be.
I hope that you have been able to
view recently released staff proposal.
And I want to thank our staff by the way,
Amy Lau, Karo Serle, and (indistinct).
for all of their work in getting
this proposal out to the public.
We certainly would like to hear
not just your thoughts on that interim measure,
but more importantly, hear about
your experiences and your recommendations
on how to improve the current situation.
So with that, I look forward to today
and tomorrow's opportunity to hear from all of you.
And I thank you again for your time.
-: Great, thank you, Commissioner.
Robert, if you could please
advance to the second slide.
The Commission is considering
regulating the prices charged
to make calls from prisons and jails.
Prison phone service providers
in California include Global Tel Link Corporation,
Inmate Calling Solutions or IC Solutions,
Legacy Inmate Communications,
network communications international corporation,
or NCIC Inmate Communications,
Pay Tel Communications Incorporated,
and Securus technologies.
If anyone listening today has a question
about your bills, the prices or the
services offered by any of these companies,
please contact the customer service representative
for these companies directly at the following numbers
which are also shown on the screen.
For Global Tel Link Corporation
877 6504249
or 866 516 0115.
IC Solutions 800 464 8957.
Legacy Inmate Communications, 888 729 4326.
NCIC Inmate Communications 800 943 2189.
Pay Tel Communications 800 729 8355
and Securus Technologies 800 844 6591.
Before we start the public comments,
I'll provide some background on the
California Public Utilities Commission.
And Alison Brown from the Commission's public
advisor's office will speak briefly
followed by a short presentation from Karo Serle
of the Commissions communication division.
Let's go back to slide one.
Now some background on the California
Public Utilities Commission.
The Public Utilities Commission is a state agency
that decides the prices companies may charge
to make phone calls from within prisons or jails.
The Commission is comprised of five Commissioners
who are appointed by the Governor
and confirmed by the California state Senate.
As the judge in this proceeding,
I manage the day-to-day activities of the case.
The five Commissioners are the ones
who will decide with a vote
on whether and how the Commission will regulate
the prices of prison phone call service companies.
My role as a judge is to evaluate the evidence
in the proceeding and to write
a proposed decision based on that evidence.
This proposed decision is considered
by the five Commissioners who decide whether
to adopt the decision I've written
or to adopt their own alternate decision.
The schedule for this proceeding currently indicates
that the Commission will vote on an interim decision
about prison phone call prices in the summer of 2021.
Before we start, I want to acknowledge
the serious hardships that COVID-19 has imposed
particularly for the prison and jail population.
During this period, we as a Commission
have transitioned to holding our
public hearings online and by phone.
Public engagement remains very important to us
and we will be paying careful attention
to the comments and feedback provided today.
We have two court reporters online today with us
and they will be transcribing everything that's said.
A written transcripts will be publicly available
after the hearing on the Commission's website.
As we get started, I'll ask speakers to speak
slowly and clearly so that the reporters
can capture everything that is said.
Speakers are not required
to provide your names or locations.
However, if you do provide this information
please state and then spell your first
and last name as you start your remarks.
I'll now invite Alison Brown of the
Commission's public advisor's office
to make a few remarks, Ms. Brown, please go ahead.
-: Thank you, judge.
My name is Alison Brown and I'm the public advisor
with the California Public Utilities Commission.
The public advisor's office assists and advises
the public to participate in Commission proceedings.
First, I want to thank you all for joining us today.
As the judge and Commissioner stated
public participation and input are essential
to the Commission's decision-making process.
This hearing is your opportunity to be heard
to share your thoughts and experiences on this issue
with the Administrative Law Judge and the Commissioners.
If you have specific questions about the proceedings
please reach out to the public advisor's office.
That address is public.adviser@cpc.ca.gov
or visit the CPC or provider websites for more information.
Second, if you or anyone you know
is not able to make a comment today
there are several other ways to become involved.
Those interested can provide written comments
on today's topic to the docket card for this proceeding.
If you would like to provide written comments
please go to cpc.ca.gov/R2010002Comments.
Individuals are not required to provide your name
location, email, or phone number
to provide written comments but you may if you wish to.
Comments can also be provided by email, USPS mail, or phone.
To date, we have received over 115 written comments.
If you wish to find more information
on becoming a party, subscribing to this proceeding,
or submitting comments, please go to our website
cpc.ca.gov or email the public advisor.
Again, that email address is public.advisor@cpc.ca.gov.
All of this information is also available
on the notice you received today
and on the slides during these proceeding.
Thank you.
Judge?
-: Right, thank you, Ms. Brown.
We'll now hear from Karo Serle,
the Commission's communication division
with a short overview of prison phone call services.
Karo: Thank you, Judge.
Good afternoon, my name is Karo Serle.
Am with the California Public Utilities Commission.
I work in the communications division
and this is a staff proposal for interim rate relief.
For the purposes of a staff proposal,
incarcerated calling services for ICS
are defined as any and all communication services
provided by telephone corporations
to incarcerated or detained minors or adults
held in California, including but not limited to
federal and state correctional facilities,
city County jails, detention centers,
holding centers and camps.
Incarcerated calling services or ICS
are provided to over 350
federal state prisons in the state.
And these calls are funded through collect calls,
prepaid collect calls, prepaid debit cards
and also through kiosks in the facilities.
Next slide, please..
The FTC or the Federal Communications Commission
is currently addressing ICS rates
and it's compiled quite an extensive record.
However, to get a better understanding
of the issues and the ICS market in California,
staff sent out data request to over
800 service providers in California
and identified six companies that provide
services in California.
Staff also reached out and met with advocates
and stakeholders on how ICS works in facilities
and the impacts of these calls
on the incarcerated, their families, and friends.
Next slide, please..
So one of the very first thing that we found
in doing this project is that,
studies have shown that incarcerate individuals
in regular contact with family
are more likely to succeed after release
and have lower recidivism rates.
So in traditional utility rate-making
the end-user usually pays the bill.
However, for ICS, most of the costs
are paid by families or friends
which adds to the financial burden.
Incarcerated calling services are provided
to approximately 350 facilities in California.
The incarcerated have no choice in service providers.
The rates are not market-based
and the terms and conditions are set forth in contracts.
The current rate structure is very inconsistent
and it fluctuates throughout the state.
Fees for non-telecommunication services
add to the cost of the call,
and revenues from the call support other programs.
Next slide, please..
So when we got our data request back from the six providers
this is the data that we found and were able to look at.
So we found that interstate rates
range from free to 1.75 per minute.
First-minute rates range from free to 3.60 a minute.
And there are also fees.
These are the FCC fees that the FCC
deemed as part of the rates,
single call rates, automated payment charges
third-party fees, live agent fees, paper bill fees,
their office and other fees.
So those are access fees account,
set up fees, transfer fees,
prepaid refund processing fees,
and fees for bill refunds.
Next slide, please..
So this is the staff proposal.
So the Commission proposes immediate relief.
So we're setting rate caps at 21 cents per minute
for debit and prepaid calls,
25 cents per minute for collect calls,
and the rate cap on the following fees,
no markups on single call fees,
automated payment fees $3 maximum,
no markups on third-party financial transaction fees.
Live agent fees at 5.95 per transaction,
and paper bill fees at $2 per statement.
These fees will be capped as part of the proposal.
Next slide, please.
There's also a provision on markups for
mandatory pass-through government taxes and fees.
There will also be a prohibition on ancillary fees
that are not specified by the FCC,
those five fees that I mentioned earlier.
And this rate structure will stay in place
until the Commission adopts the proposed FCCS rates
in a final decision in this rulemaking.
Next slide, please.
So in closing, I would like to mention that
besides the work the FCC is doing at the federal level
there was also a lot of activity at the state
and local level for lowering rates.
I would also like to recognize the innovative work
the San Francisco Financial Justice Project is doing
as it arranged to have calls for free
in San Francisco County jails.
Thank you for your participation.
-: Great, thank you, Karo.
Appreciate seeing the staff proposal presented here.
And as we opened the public comment line
speakers will be invited to speak
to the staff proposal if you like
or also to your own or your loved one's experience
with calling services currently at jails and prisons.
So with that, we'll go ahead and begin
the public commentary and if you're providing comments,
please do speak slowly and clearly
again so that our court reporters can
accurately transcribe the comments.
And if you could please speak directly
into your phone or headset.
In other words, please don't use the speakerphone,
and each speaker will have up to two minutes to speak,
and a chime will be sounded
when the two minutes time is up.
Finally, as a reminder, this is a public hearing.
And so callers must use language appropriate
to the setting and must speak to the topic
of the prices and services offered
by prison phone call companies.
Callers that do not adhere to this guidance
may have your speaking time shortened.
Operator, could you please open the line
for the public comments?
Operator: Yes, thank you.
The public comment line is now open.
Speaker number one.
You may go ahead, your line is open, one moment.
Theresa: Okay.
Hi my name is Theresa Johnson
and my sister is currently at CCWF
and she has a 13-year-old daughter
that she has to try to keep in contact with.
So I'm just asking if you guys can
try to keep the rates as low as possible.
That would be great for my (indistinct).
And also I just want to stress how important it is
to keep the rates affordable
and not pass off profit loss to the consumer.
I mean it's a struggle right now
for us to try to keep in contact with her
especially during the COVID time
where there is no visits and limit video calls.
The phone calls is the only way
that she's able to keep close to her family
and her 13-year-old daughter, thank you.
Judge: Thank you so much, caller,
I appreciate your taking the time today.
-: Thank you. -: Operator!
-: Operator could you please call the second caller?
Operator: Our next caller is Michael Gerardo.
You may go ahead.
Michael: My name is Michael Gerardo,
formerly incarcerated person that has spent
over 35 years in California's
jails and prisons and over the years,
I also am a person of color
and this burden fell on my mother
over these decades that she had
to take on two jobs just to afford
not only the phone calls with the overpricing,
the commissary and the traveling distance to come visit me.
I think that it's disproportionately affects people of color
in prison settings because majority of their
support system comes from family members
that are struggling themselves.
I think we need to regulate these calls
to keep them to the bare minimums if possible.
You know, I understand this it is a business,
but it does fall on the burdens
of our family members, thank you.
Judge: Thank you, caller.
Appreciate your comments.
Operator, would you like to call
the next caller, please?
Operator: The next caller is Natasha Baker.
You may go ahead.
Natasha: Hi, my name is Natasha Baker
and I am calling both in my personal capacity
as a California resident and in my organizational
capacity as a staff attorney both with civil rights
and criminal defense role for an organization
national organization called Equal Justice Under Law,
that includes representation of incarcerated persons.
And I want to first thank the Commission
for taking on this issue
for recognizing this as a racial justice issue
and for providing a toll-free number
for incarcerated folks to call in.
I support the recommendations as a bare minimum
of what should be done in California.
As the Commission recognized these
rates are not market-based,
they're allowed to charge all kinds of exorbitant fees,
and it is important to remember too
that people who are incarcerated are,
if they are making any income
are making literally cents per hour.
It's also a very, not 21st-century approach
to be charging people buy minutes for phone calls.
Nobody does that anymore.
And there are organizations such as Worth Rises
that have worked with counties
including in California to negotiate new contracts
that are not based on a per-minute basis,
but by telephone line which is how
normal consumers do phones
which reduces the cost overall.
And also reduces the pressure on facilities
to limit how many minutes people have
to communicate with their families.
We fully support having zero cost phone calls
and to not allow this form of racial capitalism
that allows private companies to essentially gouge right,
a captive audience at whatever rate they want.
And so, again, supporting the recommendations
as a bare minimum, but really pushing not only
for zero cost phone calls for all the reasons stated
but also because it's just not how
markets operate and consumers are not
doing things by minutes but rather by
telephone line as another option.
(timer chimes)
Thank you for your time.
Judge: Thank you very much, Ms. Baker,
appreciate the call.
Operator, could you call our next speaker, please?
Operator: Our next caller is Ms. Martinez.
You may go ahead, your line is open.
Adrian: Hello, and thank you to the
California Public Utilities Commission
for holding this time today.
My name is Adrian Martinez,
spelled A-D-R-I-A-N M-A-R-T-I-N-E-Z.
And I'm a membership organizer with media justice.
We're a national organization leading the fight
for racial, gender, and economic equity in a digital age.
We are fighting for a world where we're more
represented, connected, and free.
Phone calls to incarcerated loved ones
are a part of that fight.
The CPUSC must ensure that families
making phone calls to federal state
and local facilities are safeguarded
against predatory fees, deposits, and service charges.
I am on Tongva land and I was born and raised
in what folks know as Los Angeles County.
Growing up here it felt almost inevitable
that a loved one was snatched up
by the California prison system.
Whether it was a federal correctional facility,
a detention center or County jail,
I have had so many loved ones on the inside.
Communicating with them was critical
to keeping our family together.
As a child, I would visit my family
at the Los Angeles metropolitan detention center.
And later as a teenager, I would write letters
and call my loved ones in federal facilities.
As a young adult, I would continue to advocate
for incarcerated people through a number
of campaigns and with my work in media justice.
I know that the US prison system has been
a humanitarian disaster long before COVID-19.
And now that it's here, it's harder
and more expensive for my family to keep in touch.
If you have a loved one on the inside,
many folks know that you are always
kind of anxiously waiting for a phone call
with the automated voice telling you
that a loved one wants to talk.
Families like mine in areas most at risk
for the virus are more disconnected than ever.
Sky-high rates for prison phone calls
which would cost over a dollar a minute
have forced families like mine to choose
between needs like food and power and regular contact.
This is a burden that no family
should ever have to carry.
For as long as these practices have existed
families have fought back.
My family isn't alone, and we know that
one in three families of incarcerated loved ones
go into debt because of the high rates of these calls
and not surprisingly, most of these families look like mine.
There are people of color,
I'm a gender non-conforming person
and we tend to make lower wages.
I urge the CPUC to act now.
Families are still feeling the impacts
of COVID-19 and it is up to you to connect them.
It's time to end these unfair, harmful, and predatory rates.
Thank you so much for your time.
Judge: Right, thank you very much, Ms. Martinez,
appreciate your taking the time to call today.
Operator, would you like to call our next caller, please?
Operator: Our next caller is Bridget Rivas.
You may go ahead.
Bridget: Hi, just to speak
to my own experience a little bit.
My husband has been in jail for two years
over two years now awaiting his day in court
due to COVID nothing has been happening.
And so I've had to become the sole provider
for our household and get him
gift packs and phone minutes.
And I have spent thousands in the last couple of years
just making sure that he can continue
to talk to his young child and
lift his spirits when he needs it
while he's awaiting and you can't do anything.
And it's ridiculous what they charge
for these phone minutes.
And now that there's a possibility
there is going to be a tap on them,
I firmly feel that the justice system
in San Diego County is only
allowing phone calls and not in-person visits
or video chats, because they're trying
to get as much money out of the phone calls
as they can before it changes.
And I think that's wrong.
We're in the *i and I should be able to
see my loved one, but I again
would like at the very minimum
for the proposal to be adopted,
but it would be amazing if these phone calls were free.
It is a lifeline to people that
are incarcerated, guilty or not.
And I thank you for your time and I hope it helps.
Judge: Thank you very much, Ms. Rivas,
appreciate your taking the time today
Operator, would you like to call our next speaker, please?
Operator: Our next caller is Carrie.
Your line is open.
Carrie: Good afternoon.
Thank you for the opportunity today.
Are there are any parents on the line?
I just want you to take a moment and think about
your first day back to work or your child's
first day at school and that separation anxiety
that you felt, just feel that for a minute.
We all know it was short-lived
because you knew they were in a safe place,
you knew that you were going to be with them
in just a matter of a few hours.
Now imagine your child having
a major mental health crisis
and being arrested on March 1st, 2019.
And then think about the only way that you have
to connect with your child is through
these very expensive Securus phone calls.
And now imagine these expensive rates,
the very very poor quality and the
limited access to your loved one
having to make these phone calls due to COVID
and being in their cells for 23 hours.
Imagine how these limited calls
and the poor quality and expensive rates
how it further traumatizes your loved ones
and the extra financial burdens that it puts on us.
I don't want to complain about these phone calls
because I'm very, very grateful.
These three to 15-minute calls no matter how terrible
the connection is, no matter how expensive it is
it is my lifeline to my son.
It's the only opportunity that I get
to hear his voice to know that he's okay.
The only opportunity he has to hear
from someone who loves, respects, and honors him.
And it's the only opportunity I get
to let him know that I'll never stop fighting.
So I beg of you to please do whatever you can
to improve quality and to
zero cost them or reduce the rate.
I've had to sell everything that I own
to ensure that I always have money on my son's book.
I don't ever want there to be a time that
he just needs to hear my voice,
that he can't make a call because it's too expensive.
I'll never stop fighting for him.
And I really appreciate this time today.
And just to know that someone else out there
sees what a burden this is to our families
and to our loved ones and how important it is
for us to stay connected.
Thank you so much.
Judge: Thank you, caller.
The very difficult experience
you've been having sorry to hear that.
Operator, would you like to call the next caller
and just a quick reminder to our callers.
If you do wish to introduce yourself,
please do so by slowly stating your name
and then slowly spelling your name, thank you.
Operator: And our next caller is Margaret Dial.
You may go ahead.
Margaret: Yes, my name is Margaret,
M-A-R-G-A-R-E-T Dial.
I very much thank you.
I don't know why I'm calling other than
I've been trying to get my account
for the phone account and the video account stopped
and wanted my refund that is due to me.
There is a person at the Marion County Jail that
and that's in Florida, takes your call
and she tries to help out the best she can.
And I've been trying for months
to contact Securus,
and all you get is extensions to pay
or set up new accounts.
You press the button to speak
to an operator and nobody's available.
I have spoken to a person three times,
And the first time was January 13th, 2021.
And I called the jail like I'm supposed to.
And she did connect me.
I was very grateful for that because that's the day
I heard that it was disabled (indistinct)
their chance a hundred percent was released price gone.
And I called and spoke to the person that
handles your video account first.
And I didn't realize she didn't do those.
And then I was transferred and then I explained to her
that I was promised credits on many a day
since he was at the jail for 10 and a half months
but the monitors don't work,
they don't get connected with you.
You sit there and sit there over 30 minutes
you pay for and they do nothing.
They don't want to give you your credit.
They say they are, and when they, you know,
you get back with them when they answer,
they don't do anything.
And then when I canceled the accounts,
spoke with the woman about it and she says,
well we can cancel your account
but it's not going to do any good because
you paid for it (indistinct),
how are we supposed to, you know,
there's no way to give you credit for
days that you've missed, (timer chimes)
which she never did.
And...
Judge: Thank you, caller.
Margaret: I had a credit coming to me of 3774
which I guess started this-
Judge: Thank you, caller.
Let me, let me Interrupt for a minute.
Margaret: Look at the email because I just could never-
Judge: We do have more, there's people
waiting on the line.
Margaret: And nothing was done.
Commissioner: I'm sorry, there's trouble, is it Margaret,
can you hear us, Margaret?
If I could ask that for the operator to help.
(Margaret speaking indistinctly)
Judge: I'm not sure she can hear us.
Commissioner: Oh, okay.
Just so we can get her follow-up information if possible.
Judge: Yeah, that's right.
Commissioner: Can you help her a few things there.
-: Ms. Dial, can you hear us?
You're time is up,
Margaret: Two days later, which I found out
two weeks later when I got
the statement and I called-
Judge: Operator please go ahead
and mute this caller's line if you could.
Judge: I'm sorry to have to do that.
It doesn't appear that Ms. Dial could hear us.
So let's see, I would like to note
that there is a phone number for Ms. Dial
to call and get some assistance
from our public advisor's office.
If you can hear me, Ms. Dial
the phone number is 186 684 98390.
Again, that number is 186 684 98390.
and Ms. Dial, if you can hear me
please go ahead and call that number
and our public advisor's office
can assist you with this issue.
Thank you, and again, my apologies to
cut you off but did it appear that
you couldn't hear us and we do have
several other callers waiting in the queue.
So operator, if you could please
call the next caller, please.
Operator: Our next caller is Michael Baldwin,
sir, you may go ahead
Michael: Hi, thank you first of all
for an opportunity to share on this very critical issue.
Myself, I spent 26 years, seven months
and 17 days incarcerated.
And over that time there were many years
where I could not call home to my family
because they could not afford the phone calls.
The saving grace for me was when tablet technology
was introduced into the institution.
My children did not make phone calls.
They would text that they would do emails
that we needed to bring the communication
to the 21st century inside of the incarcerated environment.
The prices are obviously extraordinarily high
and it does extraordinarily affect those people
of color more than it affects anyone else.
I think that we have to, you know
continue to expand technology into the institutions
in order for us to really be sincere
about our rehabilitative and reconnecting
individuals to their families.
I would not have become the man that I am today
without access to my family.
There were times where I attempted suicide
because I had felt like I was useless to my family
and I was more of a burden to them than anything else.
And so bringing down the rates, I don't
expect for them to be free because you know,
this is a business it has to be a business,
but we want to make sure that that audience,
that I wasn't, you know a captive audience
to where the prices were not
were indiscriminately raised at any time
that individuals wanted to do that.
I really applaud you all for taking on
this issue and for not being bullied or pressured
by those entities that want to raise the rates.
But I think that it's important for you
to increase the technology in the institutions
and COVID was a blessing to highlight these issues,
because if COVID had not come,
we probably wouldn't even be having this conversation.
And this has been going on for years, lots of years.
And I thank you for giving me time
to express myself.
Judge: And thank you very much, Mr. Baldwin,
appreciate your sharing your perspective with us.
Operator, please call the next caller.
Operator: Our next caller is Emily Bernaske.
You may go ahead.
Woman: Bernaske!
(indistinct chatter over call)
Judge: Operator, if you could please
mute that caller, again.
It sounds like that caller may be
speaking with someone else in the household.
So let's come back to that caller
a little later if we could.
And if you could please call the next caller, please.
Operator: Our next caller is Dinorah Guzman.
You make go ahead, your line is open.
Guzman: Hi, first of all thank you
for taking the call, my name is Dinorah,
D-I-N-O-R-A-H, last name Guzman, G-U-Z-M-A-N.
I guess my concern is I feel that,
of course these costs per minutes are a burden
to loved ones and I feel it's shameful
that they are taking advantage of taxpayers dollars
and Disney and Netflix, you know,
they have like a monthly membership
that cost way you know, that are very minimal.
If you think about the hours that
you're able to watch programs and I just feel that
telephone calls to loved ones is a form of therapy.
And I just think it's shameful that
you're not thinking about the benefits
of having to be able to have that lifeline
of talking to a loved one.
And you're thinking more of money.
And I just think that we need to look at
the bigger picture and this is a form of therapy.
And I think that we should keep the cost
as low as possible and just...
I guess just to, you know think about
keeping it as low as possible and
not taking advantage of us as taxpayers
or loved ones because we want to be able to
speak to, you know our loved ones that are incarcerated.
And I guess that's all I have to say.
I just think it's shameful
and I hope that you will reconsider.
Judge: Thank you for- Guzman: Thank you so much.
Judge: Sure, thank you Ms. Guzman.
Appreciate your sharing your perspectives.
We are in fact, looking into just that
into regulating the prices charged
for calling from prisons and jails right now.
So appreciate your sharing your thoughts.
Guzman: Thank you. Judge: Operator!
Judge: Sure, operator could you please
call the next caller?
Operator: Our next caller is Frances Merron.
You may go ahead, your line is open.
Frances: Hi, your honor, this is Frances,
F-R-A-N-C-E-S, Merron, M-E-R-R-O-N.
My son's incarcerated in the
substance abuse and treatment center.
My husband and I moved out to California
about four and a half, five years ago for his retirement.
We were going to be out there for two and a half years.
And during that time we had our son
who was having some issues and didn't have
anywhere to live in the East coast.
That's where I'm from, I live on the East coast.
We brought him out there with us.
He suffered mental health illnesses
along with addiction.
He had gotten himself incarcerated.
He got in trouble out there.
We struggle with this on a daily basis.
I'm struggling with it every day.
My only way of communication with him
living so far away we moved back
to the East coast two years ago.
He's been incarcerated since we left.
It was devastating for me.
That is my only communication.
I'm not able to see him every day.
I flew out there last year
with my husband before COVID hit.
We got to see him once before.
Since then, since I moved back to the East coast,
it's very expensive to fly.
I'm not able to do that all the time.
And since COVID hit, of course we can't fly out there.
I would do it just to see him at least once a year.
But my only communication is through the phone
or by email and it's a blessing.
He struggles every day and I, and I'm retired.
My husband retired when he was out there in San Diego.
He brought his retirement back here.
I am now working part-time again,
in order to be able to support
having communication with him.
He talks to me every day, every day.
There's some times he calls me several times a day
and I don't care what it costs.
I want to talk to my son, make sure he's okay.
There's times when he was really sick.
(timer chimes)
I'm sorry, my time's up, but thank you
for everything you're trying to do for him.
I really appreciate it.
I pay for his children to be able to
have communication with him.
And anything that you could do to help
would be such a great opportunity
because the burden has really been hard.
It's really been hard but I'm willing to do
whatever I have to do to keep him connected
with me and his children.
Thank you.
Judge: All right, thank you Ms. Merron.
I'm so sorry to hear the struggles you've had.
Frances: Thank you.
Judge: Operator, can you please call our next caller?
Operator: Our next caller is Theresa Stout.
You may go ahead, your line is open.
Theresa: Thank you, good afternoon,
Judge and Commissioners.
I just, first of all, want to thank you so much
for doing what you're doing right now
and staff, thank you for putting it together
the (chuckles), the picture of what it looks like
with that rate structure and fees.
I'm a mom and I can't help what
my daughter did to get inside but
I am carrying the burden of her being in there.
So, she's been in two different locations now
and they are different companies, different fees
the structures, the rates, everything, it changes.
And it changes all the time.
The one very gracious thing I do have to say
is about in Placer County, my daughter's being given
one 15-minute phone call per week.
It's better than nothing, but it's free
so she can use it to keep that lifeline running
that we are so desperately need and
that she needs in order to do better
once she gets out, we gotta keep those lines open.
So thank you very much.
I'm just looking for the rate structure
to be consistent throughout the state.
I'm looking for one free, few minutes every week
every couple of days, whatever it is you can do for us.
And then as that one gentleman asked
for different types of technology for all of us
to be able to connect better out there.
So thank you very much, I appreciate it.
Have a good afternoon.
Judge: Thank you, I appreciate your call.
Operator, would you like to call the next caller, please?
Operator or Robert, are there any additional callers?
Robert: Your honor, this is Robert Stanford.
There is an additional caller, please stand by.
Judge: Thank You.
Robert: Mr. Munkelt, you may speak.
Stephen: Thank you, my name is Steven Munkelt,
S-T-E-P-H-E-N, M-U-N-K-E-L-T.
I'm an attorney and a certified
criminal law specialist who's been practicing
in the city of California for 43 years.
I'm also the executive director of the
California attorneys for criminal justice,
an organization primarily of criminal
defense lawyers with over 1200 members.
Our membership at any given time is representing
thousands of people who are incarcerated
in the state of California.
I'd ask the Commission to investigate
the factors of call quality, accessibility to calls,
and the cost of calls to the extent that
all three of those are within your purview.
Our experience and my experience
as a criminal defense lawyer is that
there are very limited access to calls
in many carceral situations.
For example, there might be one or two phones
available for a living environment
of 40 or more people.
So that's one significant issue.
Then these providers who basically
I view as essentially monopolistic providers
with very favorable contracts with the County
or government agencies, the call quality
they provide is also very substandard
a great deal at a time although
it also varies widely from place to place.
And finally, I understand that your primary focus
in this review has to be on the cost of calls.
And I can only reinforce what so many
have already said during the course of this hearing.
And I know that it has also been expressed
in the written comments to this Commission proceeding.
And that is that the cost of the calls
both in time and in fees added for various reasons
is exorbitant and a significant barrier
to maintaining contact with normal life
for people in carceral situations throughout California.
(timer chimes)
And that is a fact which reinforces
racist divisions in our society
based on economy and other factors.
So thank you for undertaking this project
and we certainly hope you can reach
a good basis for regulation.
Judge: Right, thank you, Mr. I believe Munkelt.
Appreciate you're taking the time to call.
We are looking at those issues.
And operator would you like to go ahead and
call the next caller or Commissioner
would you like to say something,
you look like you're about to say something,
No, okay, operator if you could call
the next caller, please.
Operator: Our next caller is Sarah Perez.
You makes go ahead, your line is open.
Sarah: Yes, hello my name is Sarah Perez, P-E-R-E-Z.
And I'm basically new to this whole process.
My husband has been in the
San Diego County jail the past six months.
And I would have to say that to say the least
it's a trauma to be having to deal with
any legal issues on top of having to try
to scramble and find the avenues
as to how to communicate.
I've been dealing with, what's the company
whatever company it is here in San Diego, Securus.
And first of all, when you try to even call
the first minute it's all full of the recorder.
So you're already wasting 30 cents
on something that you don't need to know
every day, every time they call.
Additionally, I'm sure that everybody has stated that
it's an emotional stableness for anybody in jail
to be contacting their relative.
I'm the only one that was left to try to
keep it together with the household, working.
And I've spent an average of $250 a month
just in a 15-minute phone call every day.
$250 a month is way too much money for anybody
to be trying to communicate to your loved one.
I would suggest that the telephone companies
have at least 15-minutes free for anybody
so that they don't have to worry about all these
additional charges on top of legal fees.
So it's something that can be done for someone.
I mean, I know it's a business,
but they always have, they don't have to be
gouging on the pricing as well.
So, that's all I have to say.
It's something that has been very traumatic
and emotionally taxing for me.
And I would really appreciate
something to be done about it.
Judge: Thank you, Ms. Perez,
appreciate your calling.
Operator, could you please call our next speaker?
Operator: Our next caller is Mary Moreno.
Your line is open.
Mary: Yes, hi, good afternoon everybody.
First of all, let me, I would like to thank you
for this space to share our concerns.
As an effected family member you know,
I've been dealing with this for 20 years now.
My husband is currently incarcerated at a state prison
and it's a real burden,
it's a real burden on families.
Calls for the incarcerated population
should be free of costs.
I can really tell you that as an
affected family member the high cost of having
an incarcerated loved one is heavy.
And again, you know burdensome.
Phone contact with families is part
and should be considered part of their rehabilitation
and the cost should not fall on the shoulders of families.
Some of these families who cannot unfortunately afford it.
Every incarcerated person should be entitled
to a monthly inmate fund as part of
their rehabilitation program and you know,
plan of action that should cover this cost.
I mean, there is enough funds there,
for them to receive.
Sort of like a monthly stipend or a monthly
fund I'm sorry, towards their rehabilitation programming.
I have always had to maintain two jobs
just in order to cover all the expenses
that come with having an incarcerated loved one.
And I am lucky and blessed
to be able to do that but I definitely
know other families and I know,
other especially when it comes to grandmothers
or children, you know that are not as lucky.
And sometimes, you know incarcerated people
prefer not to call, you know
just as much just lift that burden off of
the shoulders of the families.
So I definitely would appreciate
if you guys could consider this
as an option because you know
I feel that they definitely should be entitled to.
And, I also- (timer chimes)
I appreciate your time, I know my time is up
so thank you very much for hearing me out.
Judge: Thank you, caller.
Appreciate hearing your ideas, very helpful.
Operator, are there any more callers?
If so, could you please call your the next caller?
Operator: Yes, our next caller is Johanna Diaz.
You may go ahead, your line is open.
Johanna: Hello, good afternoon
and thank you for your time.
My name is Joanna Diaz, J-O-H-A-N-N-A, D-I-A-Z.
I am calling because my only sibling,
my brother has been incarcerated for 14 years.
14 years now, he was a minor at the time of his arrest.
Over those 14 years, my family and I
have had to pay on prepaid costs to speak to him.
That cost over the 14 years has been substantial.
Unfortunately, it's hard to financially afford
these calls at times, but times became
much more difficult when the pandemic hit.
In March of 2020 last year, in-person visiting
became obsolete meaning I can no longer
see my only brother and also meaning that
my daughter and him can no longer grow a bond as well.
And when the pandemic hit, my family personally
was affected when for months work was not available.
The jails give only two five-minute phone calls
once a week that was not enough to sustain
a healthy and happy relationship or family bond.
This meant that with no family connection
my brother will suffering from
severe depression as well as us.
Both of my family members and I
typically put 30 to $50 weekly
to be able to speak with my brother.
But those 30 to $50 aren't, you know,
put all through they take a service fee
which usually it's like $4, $5 off the amount.
And sometimes a 14-minute phone call was charged at $15.
Being able to communicate with the loved ones
behind bars shouldn't be this unfair economically.
Unfortunately, mass incarceration does affect many
low income families and many times we're left
with no way of communicating with our loved ones.
I ask to please to take in consideration
to get families just rates and phone calls
if possibly free and I also do wanna say that
our incarcerated loved ones sometimes were
the breadwinners for our households.
And sometimes that paycheck gets taken away
leaving the burden on, you know,
sometimes the moms, the families to be able to
sustain family and sometimes, you know,
they do have to choose either food
or being able to communicate with their loved ones.
And that's just something that (timer chiming)
we shouldn't have to put up with.
Okay, thank you for your time and consideration.
Commissioner: Judge- -: Thank you Ms. Diaz.
Commissioner: Ms. Diaz, I just have a
clarification question.
Johanna: Yes Commissioner: You mentioned
the service fee.
Did you say it was charged
every time you added a 30 or $50 a week?
Johanna: Yes, every time we
Global Tel Link, at least every time we
put money, usually I put 30 to $50 a week.
They do charge a service fee of $4 and 30 cents.
I do think sometimes it goes up if you put more money.
So, but yeah, that service fee so if I put $30,
they'll take off $4 and 30 cents and then
my balance will be $26 so only those $26
I can use to have time to speak to my brother.
Commissioner: Okay, thank you very much
for the clarification.
Johanna: Thank you.
Judge: Thank you for your comments,
Ms. Diaz, appreciate it.
Operator, could you call the next speaker, please?
Operator: Our next caller is Tiffany Williams.
You may go ahead, your line is open.
Tiffany: Hi, I'm Tiffany Williams.
T-I-F-F-A-N-Y Williams that's my last name.
I'm really hoping that these proposals
and requests are implemented and followed.
I'm hoping for a consistent rate with the phone calls,
maybe one free phone call a week
if not just lower the rates.
My husband has been incarcerated for three plus years.
It was horrible, especially during COVID.
I mean, it was just excessive.
You know, the phone call price were excessive
and really difficult to meet.
He was put at MCJ for a few months
and I remembered the calls are 25 cents a minute.
I remember several months paying 600,
$500 for a month worth of phone calls.
So, you know, that's how much it came up to
when I added it up and like the girl before me said
that every time I loaded money onto the phone,
the fees will be four or $5 maybe
the least I got into was $3 and 60 cents
when I loaded about 40, $50 on there.
So it's just, you know, it's really difficult
to pay for these phone calls.
I mean, communication is essential for
anybody's wellbeing and anybody's rehabilitation.
And I believe that's what these prisons
are supposed to do, rehabilitate these inmates.
And you know, a lot of people can't afford these.
So these inmates are depressed just like my husband
gets depressed because he can't talk to anybody
or can't communicate with me or his children.
So like everybody who's called before,
you know, I'm just asking that
there be a change in these these phone call rates.
And thank you for giving me and everyone else
the opportunity to speak on this.
Commissioner: Thank you, Tiffany.
Just to follow up to you also,
did I hear you correctly that I know you and
the previous caller, Ms. Diaz mentioned that
the service fee fluctuates depending on
how much you put in,
but did you say that during COVID the charges went up?
Tiffany: No, they were the same.
I'm saying that it was just difficult to meet
during that time because, you know, we had pay cuts
and you know, everyone was kind of struggling.
So it was really hard to meet those rates.
Commissioner: Okay, thank you so much.
Tiffany: Mm-hmm, thank you.
Judge: All right, thank you so much, Ms. Williams
for calling in appreciate hearing about
your experience, very difficult.
Operators could you please call the next caller?
Operator: Our next caller is Andreya.
You may go ahead, your line is open.
Andreya: Yes, my name is Andreya,
A-N-D-R-E-Y-A in California.
I'm calling in my own capacity
as a formerly incarcerated person
and directly impacted person through
several currently incarcerated loved ones
including my husband as well as in my
organizational capacity which is
San Bernardino Free Them All.
I'd like to thank the Commission for holding this meeting.
Although I'd like the Commission to think about
a couple of things callers are not able
to view the slide you are presenting.
So please make available the slide
to everyone at as early as possible
as well as I'd like for you to think about
incarcerated people may only have,
if they're lucky one minute to 15-minutes
available for a phone call.
This hearing is not realistically
accommodating for incarcerated people.
Several of our members that have called in today
to give a testimony have had to hang up
because their time had lapsed.
One of our members was told to get off the phone
after eight minutes and 33 seconds.
Before COVID the high phone rates
were already unmanageable for people.
And that was before the pandemic hit.
Many people are struggling right now, financially.
And this is during a national or I should say
world pandemic and crisis and people
do not have the funds to pay these
high phone rates as well as the connection fees
as other callers have mentioned.
In 2018 in Los Angeles County,
a monthly phone bill for rates were
$800 for every month and that was from Los Angeles County.
Currently, paying approximately $12,000 a year
for phone calls for a different county.
The form rates are still very high as well as
the connection fees as other callers have mentioned.
There is a cap when you place money on an account
you can only place a maximum of $50 it's cap,
but you have to pay the connection fee.
So us as an organization, every time that we place money
on our account in increments of $50,
we get charged a fee and particularly with Securus,
which is $3 every time you place money.
If we decide to place $30, we have to pay $3.
If we come back and say we wanna put $50
on a phone, there's still another $3 fee.
If we want to add another $50 the fees
just add every time that you placed the money.
So we place our own money to accept calls
on behalf of our members, which we are paying
out our own money to speak with people.
And many of our members are incarcerated
as well as the incarcerated community has
many pretrial detention folks who are legally innocent.
And these phone calls should be free.
There are a lot of free calls out there
but it's only for certain facilities,
it's not available to everyone across the board.
So please think about making these phone calls
more manageable for folks that are being
taken advantage of right now that are working
very, very hard collecting whatever money
they can put together to keep in contact
with their loved ones.
And I yield the rest of my time.
Thank you very much.
Judge: Thank you, Andreya, appreciate that.
And we are aware.
Thank you for your comments about the slides.
We will make the slides available on our Commission website.
After the, after this meeting, this hearing.
I believe our website is CPUC prison calling,
but I'll verify that in just a minute
and announce the proper name.
And also to re-announce, here it is
the website is www.cpuc.ca.gov/prisoncalls.
Again, that's cpucca.gov/prisoncalls.
And thank you for the reminder that
folks on the phone cannot see the slides right now
in case there's someone listening on the phone
that would like to make a comment please just press
*1 to get in the queue to make a comment.
And also I want to acknowledge that we did
at the Commission make a diligent efforts to ease the
make it possible for incarcerated persons
to phone into this hearing from within
in carceral facility, it's quite difficult to accomplish.
We know we were not able to accomplish that perfectly.
So we do extend our regrets for that,
but we have there are other ways to comment.
Folks can comment online at the bottom
of the slide here you can see,
you can write a written comment if you like
cpuc.ca.gov/R2010002Comments.
And there are other methods which
we'll repeat as we end this hearing.
And Commissioner, I don't know
if you wanted to add anything there or?
-: Thank you, yes and I do wanna thank
Andreya for raising the issue.
I think we're also open to hearing specific recommendations
not just today but as we move forward
on how to do better engagement perhaps more targeted
and easier and taking into account the
time allocations that the incarcerated have.
So we completely acknowledged this
traditional method doesn't work,
and we are open to additional followup
on how to get that engagement, thank you.
Judge: Thank you, Commissioner.
Operator, could you please
call in our next caller, please?
Operator: Our next caller is Milania Lafaber
Judge: I'm sorry, could you state the name again please?
Operator: Her name is Milania Lefaber,
you may go ahead.
Judge: Thank you.
Milania: Yes, hello?
Judge: Yeah, hi, we hear you.
Milania: Yes, hi everybody my name is
Milania Lafaber, M-I-L-A-N-I-A
last name L-A F as in Frank A-B-E-R,
I feel it's unfair because calls get cut off or short
with the $3 fee on the facility daytime hours are over
they get cut off immediately without any notice.
And although we pay for a 10-minute phone call,
it's you know, a $3 fee that's charged
and we're still cut off.
So we're still responsible for those charges
where, you know, the individual
could have been told ahead of time.
The cost of commissary is very high.
Ramen noodles, I can go to the 99-cent store
down the street and get them for like 25-cents a piece
but jail charges a dollar and 19 cents per pack.
So with the cost of commissary
and the cost of phone calls,
that makes it very expensive.
I would like to see a low monthly plan
like someone else I think her name is Carrie has suggested.
Netflix and all of these online sites have it.
And it'd be great if we can have it too.
It's therapy for them, we need to show them
love, support, let's see what else we have here.
Also video call visits.
It's very expensive to go down to the facility
to have you know, a meet it's not convenient
for everybody, we have higher costs.
I have two kids where I need to drive them
to school at separate times, pick up and drop off
which cost me in time and in gas now due to COVID,
which means that I can't spend a whole lot
of gas going down to visit in person or on phone calls.
Also, you know I have a little girl
who potentially might have COVID at the moment
and I'm going to have to probably pay
for extra costs for her care.
Me, myself, I'm having my own health problems
and I've just had surgery about a week ago.
So I feel like video calls might be helpful
because I can't seem to make it down there
and afford these calls.
He also has, my incarcerated individual also has
a retired father who also has been much help to support him.
And he has spent well over $400 in 30 days
to help support him in the event that I could not
due to all of my burdens during COVID.
Any questions?
Commissioner: I do have a question actually for you.
Sorry, I'm running this longer but...
You mentioned that you would like to know
ahead of time, can you talk about what that means?
Milania: Yeah, like, you know, it's very hard
in the system to see whether your individual
is ABC or D and their number of unit,
what their daytime hours are or not.
And I don't think some of them know themselves.
The phone is just cut off after we're paying all those fees.
And also the individual goes and invests in that
10-minute phone call.
And I think that they don't know that
there's a $3 fee every time for that 10-minute phone call,
because they can only purchase up to 10-minutes per session.
And that's kind of not fair.
It's real expensive.
Commissioner: And what facility is this?
Milania: Robert Presley in Riverside, California.
Robert: Is he a congressman?
Milania: Hmm?
Judge: Okay, and could you tell us
Ms. Lefaber which phone company it is?
Milania: It's Securus.
Judge: It's Securus, okay.
Milania: Yeah, I also haven't been informed about any
you know, other forms of telephone user I could use.
I have heard from Los Angeles
County that there is Pelipost,
which Robert Presley and Larry D. Smith
did not accept or have available to them.
And LA County also has video calls available to them
in which Riverside County doesn't.
Commissioner: Okay, thank you for that
information Ms. Lafaber, we'll-
Milania: You're so welcome.
Judge: Thank you. Milania: Thank you.
Judge: Caller, excuse me, operator,
could you call our new caller please?
Operator: Yes, our next caller is Elizabeth Isaacson.
You may go ahead, your line is open.
Elizabeth: Oh, hello, can you hear me?
Judge: Yes, we can.
Elizabeth: Excellent, so I'm going to read
a line from a press release given out by
the California Department of Corrections
and Rehabilitation on March 1st.
They say as part of a new six-year contract
with Global Tel Link corporation
which is one of those corporations you mentioned.
Telephone calls nationwide from
California to California will now cost
2.50 cents a minute and I'm skipping a lot,
and international telephone calls will only cost
7 cents a minute that means a 15-minute
phone call to anywhere in the US
now costs 37.50 cents, I'm not really sure
what half a cent is, but whatever.
This is fantastic and a huge gain
for folks in prison but this isn't the law,
this is a contract, it's only with one company
it's just been announced,
after six years this contract will expire
and prison phone rates will balloon again.
The numbers that CDCR set on March 1st
are big gains and they're good numbers.
And honestly, I think since this is affordable
this is something that a contract could gain.
I believe you should act to set those numbers
into law or numbers even smaller than that.
But, you know, 2.50 cents a minute
sounds like a good start.
We already have regulations and bills.
Most notably the FCC is ruling on rates
for interstate and recalling services.
Senator Duckworth proposed 2019
Martha Wright-Reed Just and Reasonable
Communications Act which show how you
enshrine rate caps like the one that
the CDCR just gained into law.
And I think y'all might want to take
a good hard look at these rulings
like the FCCS 2013 one and Duckworth's 2019
proposed bill and use some of that language
to set something like a 2.5 set rate cap
like the one that the CDCR has contracted into stone.
I mean, honestly, I'd like to get the rates even lower.
I'd like for them phone calls to be free
or to have you know, at least some number
of free phone calls per week.
But if that's impossible, I'd at least like
to verify these very excellent gains
the CDCR have won this March.
Likewise, because people have been talking
about video visitation, I urge
California lawmakers to look at Senator Duckworth's
Video Visitation and Inmate Calling in Prisons Act
of 2017 for a model to follow when establishing
laws and video visitation, thank you.
Judge: Thank you, caller appreciate that.
We are certainly aware of the SDCs actions
and are following those closely.
And also the CDC as well as Senator Duckworth legislation.
But we will definitely give that another look
as you saw, we introduced a staff proposal or
excuse me, staff introduced his proposal earlier
in this hearing and we are looking
at all of these items right now as we go forward.
Elizabeth: All right, thank you very much.
And also honestly, I'd like to thank the CDCR
for getting that contract with Global Tel Link
because those are much better rates
than we've had in the past.
Judge: Yeah, it is certainly an improvement.
Thank you, thank you, caller.
Operator, could you please call our next speaker.
Operator: Our next caller is Michelle Lau.
You may go ahead, your line is open.
Michelle: Hi, my name is Michelle Lau.
That's M-I-C-H-E-L-L-E L-A-U.
And I'm with the San Francisco Financial Justice Project.
We work closely with community groups
and formerly incarcerated people to uplift
the needs of justice-involved people in San Francisco.
And today we're joining many of those who have
spoken already to call them the CPC to strengthen
justice-involved communities by lowering
the price of phone calls in carceral facilities.
Here in San Francisco, we've worked with
the Sheriff's office and community groups
to make San Francisco the first County in California
to make jail phone calls free.
Prior to these reforms-
Judge: Ms. Lau, if I could just
interrupt for a minute if you could just
speak a little slower I think that
would help our court reporters.
Thank you, please go ahead.
Michelle: Yep, so here in San Francisco
we've worked with the Sheriff's office
and community groups to make San Francisco
the first County in California
to make jail phone calls free.
Prior to these reforms, the price of
jail phone calls estranged incarcerated
people's relationships with their
support networks and forced people into debt.
But once phone calls became free,
incarcerated people and their support networks
now spend 80% more time in communication
and no longer have to choose between
hearing a loved one's voice and paying
for rent, groceries, and food.
We recently asked people who are currently incarcerated
in San Francisco County jails about what these
free jail phone calls have meant to them.
And I wanted to share some of
their responses and direct quotes.
And so, for example, we've heard that quote,
being able to contact my family
has made a huge difference.
This access has allowed me to reconnect
with family at a much-needed time.
It has been great for my physical and mental health.
Someone else said I've been able to contact my kids.
It has helped to talk daily to find out
what's going on with family and friends.
And lastly, we also heard it helps with
my depression being able to talk
with my family and not have to worry about a bill.
So I just want to thank the Commission
for creating space for the public and
currently incarcerated people to be heard.
I think this is an incredibly important issue
that impacts hundreds of thousands of
some of the most vulnerable people in our state.
And we're really excited that the Commission
is taking this issue on, thank you.
Judge: Thank you, Ms. Lau.
If there are no questions from the Commissioner,
I'll invite the operator to call our next speaker, please.
Operator: And our next caller is Michelle Synan.
You may go ahead, your line is open.
Michelle: Hello, my name is Michelle,
M-I-C-H-E-L-E and last name Synan, S-Y-N-A-N.
I have an incarcerated loved one.
My husband is in Kern Valley
state prison in Delano, California.
I had to move from California back to my hometown
in Pennsylvania with our eight-year-old daughter.
The only way we can communicate,
is either by phone or email.
And I noticed with me being in another state
the phone calls are very high
sending me between 200 and 300 a month.
And as previous callers have stated
I am also being charged the extra fee
between 595 and 795 unless I agree to add
the extra couple of dollars in order to get that free money,
which I think is very unfair.
My daughter has a heart condition
so my husband does worry about her.
I worry about my husband as he is man of color
and also has a heart condition of his own.
It's bad enough we have to email also in JPay,
takes several days for emails to get through
or come through on either behalf
and the bond that he should be building
with his daughter is not being able to be done
because the phone calls are so expensive.
And with my daughter having a medical issue
and with the lovely COVID,
I have lost my job completely.
And I'm the sole provider that's why
I had to move out of California back then.
And I'm just asking all across the board
as previous people stated, certain facilities
are able to get a free phone call
where my husband is at, they get two free stamps a week.
My husband wants to be able to talk to his daughter
when he doesn't talk to his daughter
he is stressed out, worried about her
and he has been very depressed.
And I want to thank everybody for the time today
to be able to speak and take this opportunity
to look at our concerns, thank you so much.
Judge: Thank you Ms. Synan, I appreciate that.
And sorry to hear about those challenges.
Michelle: Thank you.
Judge: I would like to ask the operator
just to confirm that individuals calling
from within incarceration facilities are,
if you could confirm that they are being moved
to the front of the queue, please.
Operator: That is correct.
Judge: Okay, thank you very much.
And I think if it's all right,
we'll go ahead and take the
Spanish call at this time.
(man speaking in foreign language)
(Patricia speaking in foreign language)
Interpreter: Hello, my name is Patricia Hernandez.
I just want, I just have a question.
I just wanted to talk about the cost.
They are ridiculously high.
I do have a brother that's in a state prison.
I am, I just have a question.
And my only question is that I wanted to see
if there's a line available for Mexico.
I do have my mom and dad that would like
to hear from their son.
He's been in jail for 15 years here in California.
It's just a position I would like for him
to speak with the parents as well as his children
because it would make my mother happy.
And you know, it's just a phone call
that they're waiting from him.
And it's just a desire that we have
from the telecommunications, just a petition.
And I thank you all for everything.
Judge: Thank you, Ms. Hernandez,
for that comment and question
and I'm not sure of the answer of that.
(interpreter speaking in foreign language)
Whether or not it's possible for individuals
to call from incarceration facilities currently to Mexico.
It's not something
we've heard about yet in this rulemaking
but that's something we can look into.
Thanks for that comment.
Operator, if we could please
take the next caller then?
Operator: And our next caller is Shawn Young,
Sir, you may go ahead.
Sean: Hi, can you hear me?
Judge: Yes, we can.
Shawn: Awesome, hi, my name is Shawn,
Shawn Young that's S-H-A-W-N Y-O-U-N-G.
I'm with the San Francisco Financial Justice Project,
and a member of the San Francisco Jail Justice Coalition.
The San Francisco Jail Justice Coalition
is comprised of community groups
and formerly incarcerated people
who works up with the needs of justice
involved people in San Francisco.
And our coalition is calling on the CPUC
to strengthen justice-involved communities
by cutting the prices on calls in carceral facilities.
Our coalition worked closely with the
San Francisco sheriff to make San Francisco
the first County in the country
to make jail phone calls free.
Prior to our reforms, the price of
jail phone calls strained incarcerated
people's relationships with their
support networks and forced them to debt.
But once phone calls became free
incarcerated people and their support networks
now spend 80% more time in communication
and no longer have to choose between
hearing a loved one's voice and paying
for rent, groceries, and food.
Our coalition recently asked people currently
incarcerated in San Francisco County jails
about what free jail phone calls has meant to them
and what they would like to tell the Commission
as it considers this rulemaking.
I'd like to read some of their responses.
One current- Judge: If I could just,
Sorry, Mr. Young, if I could just
ask you to slow down just a little bit for our
court reporters we'd appreciate it, thank you.
Shawn: Sure, so one currently incarcerated person
said quote before reforms here in San Francisco
jail phone calls were extremely expensive.
Now free, the impact on myself has been astronomical.
When I first was incarcerated, I would rarely
use the phone due to the cost.
It was either that or commissary.
Not having much money I chose to use
the phone once a week and order
the maximum amount of food we could afford.
Free calls have made it possible
that I don't have to choose between eating
or speaking with my family.
They no longer have to choose between
helping feed me or the rent, I don't know how
to be more straightforward to that.
They also said that they would like
the Commission to know that
phone calls make a world of difference to us.
Most incarcerated individuals are the people
society has written off, the unwanted and poor.
Don't force them to deal with another struggle
especially when it's 2021 and calls are so cheap.
Another person said that phone calls make it easy
for them to stay in touch with their family
and that it's important now more than ever
because people's families are struggling.
I'd like to thank the Commission for creating a space
for incarcerated people to be heard.
And for everyone who's already testified
in uplifting this issue, this rulemaking is
an opportunity to uplift and invest
in the most vulnerable people in our state.
And I hope that the Commission
meets the moment, thank you.
Judge: Thank you, Mr. Young, appreciate that.
I understand we do have about 15 callers
left in the queue so we will carry on
hearing those folks if you are listening
and you would like to make the comments
if we haven't done so yet you may press
*1 on your phone and the operator
will greet you and get you in the queue.
With that, operator if we could please
open up the line of our next caller.
Operator: Our next caller is Bastian,
you may go ahead, sir.
Bastian: Hi, my name is Bastian and
my father works with a Reentry organization
and it's often very hard to look to
who are getting out of prison to enter society again,
to have some sort of support network
and a lot of over here people send,
and a lot of people go back to prison.
And one of the things that matters the most
is building a support network while you're inside
and having contact with people,
having contact with the outside world
while you're still inside so that you can set up
some plan for what you're going to do
when you finally get out.
And anything that can help that sort of
communication work and is something that's really vital.
I think that people should, that the Commission should
look at the total amount of money that's paid
by the prisoner for the purpose of making phone calls,
not just the specific permanent rates that's in the bill.
That's all I had to say, thank you.
Judge: Thank you, caller.
I appreciate that and yes, we are definitely
taking a holistic look at the rates charged
not only first minute, per minute but all of the fees.
so appreciate your comments and those of others
who've raised the issue about the cost
to put money into account and the fees charged to that.
So if the Commissioner doesn't have any question,
I'll go ahead and ask the operator
to call the next caller if you could.
Operator: Our next caller is Amelia Peterson.
You may go ahead.
Amelia: Good afternoon, my name is Amelia Peterson.
My first name is spelled A-M-E-L-I-A.
And my last name is spelled Peterson, P-E-T-E-R-S-O-N.
Now I want to say thank you so much
for allowing us to express our points of view
and to let you know what's going on in our world.
I have a viewpoint of two different worlds.
I've had loved ones that have been incarcerated
and I've visited them in prison.
And I've also worked for three different prisons.
And I want to say that I've actually done
a cost analysis a couple of times.
And on in-person visits when you're
thinking about going to visits,
you're thinking about the traveling costs,
the gas, the food while you're there,
the hotel accommodations, it's very expensive.
When the pandemic hit and they were discontinued
in terms of the visits then we had to
rely a lot on technology.
And technology is an absolutely great avenue
to venture down, it's priceless.
It's invaluable, but technology needs to be
available to all, it should be expanded
and it should be kept reasonable.
So you have the phone calls, you have the ability
to acquire tablets which are absolutely wonderful.
On those tablets you can email,
you can send pictures, you can do video chats.
You can send electronic card,
you can even pursue your education.
So again, technology is critical.
It's crucial and it's key.
It just needs to be kept reasonable
because it truly is a lifeline for communication
to loved ones who are experiencing trauma,
mental health, depression, loneliness.
And I've seen this firsthand
from my own personal loved ones
and from working inside of prisons.
So I just want to say that we should always
keep technology and expand it,
but just keep it reasonable.
Judge: Thank you Ms. Peterson for that perspective
and the focus on technologies that you added
and keeping that cost reasonable it's very helpful.
Amelia: You're welcome, thank you so much.
Judge: You're welcome.
Operator, could you please call our next caller?
Operator: Yes, our next caller is number 16,
sir, you may go ahead.
Anthony: Hi, my name is Anthony,
A-N-T-H-O-N-Y, Salvatierra
S-A-L V as in Victor, A-T-I-E-R-R-A.
I am currently incarcerated in Madera County Jail.
I've been here since December of 2017.
I'm a father to three children.
I'm a husband, I'm a son and this,
first and foremost I'd like to thank
you guys for putting this on.
And I just like to be quick, obviously
I know we're on a time limit but
a couple of things I wanted to bring up
that I haven't heard so far this day
as far as the comments that have come in,
I think a big focus on getting the rates reduced
has to be on how ambiguous the law is
on how jails go about charging us things.
The law really just makes jail
give us a minimum standards of being
reasonable access to a telephone.
Now, that's obviously very big as reasonable access
that they then leave it up to the jail
by stating that judiciaries have to, you know
give way to jail administrations
'cause they know how to run the jail the best.
So then reasonable access is basically
given up to whoever's running the jail at that time.
For us, even before COVID, we were only getting
one hour outside of our cell with access to a phone.
And that was even before COVID.
So it's not really in whose eyes is it reasonable?
So I think really too is changing
the wording used or at least getting some type
of ruling and definition as to what that means.
Secondly, here within Madera County Jail,
we utilize Securus.
Phone calls are $15, which obviously is very excessive.
And once you make that call and once that call is accepted
no matter how long you were on that phone call,
even if it is for 90 seconds,
you still pay the full $15 per...
And if my line is cut off, if the call is dropped,
accidentally hung up or anything of that nature,
it is $15 and that's it.
And I mean, common sense would state that
that's unfair you know.
Also, specifically in the Madera County Jail 'cause
me personally have been fighting this fight
'cause I've been incarcerated
almost three and a half years now
and I'm only a pretrial detainee.
I have not been convicted of any crime.
I pled not guilty and I'm currently
fighting my case within the court system.
Here specifically and I'm quoting
a profit and loss statement from the
Humane Welfare Fund in the Madera County Jail,
Commission that they have profited from phones alone
from the inmates is $96,861.41
for that year of January 2018 to June of 2019.
In one year, the jail has made
a hundred thousand dollars in profit on phone Commissions.
These Commissions are then justified by expenses.
Expenses included bottled water, over $1,000
which inmates here in Madera County Jail
do not receive bottled water.
So, we don't see a lot of water here.
Over, let's see here going down to
another ridiculous expense would be like
salaries $141,201.80.
So over $140,000 in someone's salary
that our phoning Commissions are paying.
Recreation, things like newspapers and let's see
there's just several, their cellular phone service
here within Madera County jail
$2,200 on cellular phones service.
We don't have a cell phone, none of us
have access to a cell phone.
So there are things that these expenses
are being justified and they're justifying
the phone money that they're taking
from our phones and charging us and our families.
And they're justifying it with expenses
that don't have nothing to do with inmates.
And I think that going forward here is,
it's how jails can spend their money.
When they try to, obviously in this process
you guys are gonna say, hey, you're talking too much.
They're going to say, hey, well
it costs money to run a jail, it costs money
to put phones in and things like that but
laws that make it clear how a jail
can use the money is equally as important
on how much money they charge because
we can always say like, hey, we need more money,
we need more money, but well, where's that money going?
And I think that has a lot to do with reform
as far as how much money they can charge.
I also think that there's a compelling state interest.
When we look to the future, everyone's talking
about how it's been affected them now
and how their families are affected now.
But we really have to look to the future.
Everyone knows that if your father is incarcerated
the son has a harder time in growing.
But if we can increase the amount of time
that a father can spend schooling and teaching
his son to be especially,
with rehabilitation in everyone's mind.
I applaud the California justice system
for giving us so many access to therapy,
mental health, you know, high school diplomas,
GEDS and things of that nature.
I applaud that and we need those things
but we also need to be there to be able to
teach our children the things that we've learned
as we're becoming better men behind these walls.
We need access to our families to teach our sons
so that they can avoid the troubles that we've got into.
And the only way to do so is on this telephone
and $15 a call and for 15-minutes,
just it isn't realistic to raise a child
in any circumstance I mean, obviously
being incarcerated isn't a good circumstance either
but we can only make things better.
So in all reality, it's kind of like a moral-ethical
and almost, you know, sympathetic cause.
And there's really interest for all of us
because we're going to choose the next generation
and we might not see it here and now
but you're definitely going to improve.
And at the end of the day, economically even.
The less people that are incarcerated
for the next five, 10, 15 years
the less money you have to spend on incarceration.
And then that's enough whole another budget
that we can finally cut down because
man are in their children's lives
men are changing themselves, becoming better people,
and when then they're able to communicate
those better things to their children
and then their children make better choices
and then we can incarcerate less people.
So what you guys are doing here is great.
And there's a lot of work to be done, obviously
but it kinda, it really needs to start with
how jails are operated, how their money is spent
and where that money can be used to fund
inmates rehabilitation, and you know-
Judge: Right, thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Salvatierra,
we really appreciate that perspective
and I'm glad you were able to join us today.
Commissioner, did you have a question?
Commissioner: Yes, thank you.
Of course, we have no jurisdiction
on defining what reasonable access will be
but I did want to ask, it sounded like perhaps
you were reading from something on the expenditures
of where this Commission revenue was going.
Is there a particular document that you're reading from?
Anthony: I'm personally referring
to the inmate welfare fund profit and loss
January, excuse me, July 2018 through June 2019.
And what this is specifically if you're not aware
is there is within the California institution
jails have to create a fund that
the law States has to be reasonably profitable.
And this is a tax that is added to our commissary
our iCare, our Kiosks, our phone, things like that.
And that tax is then collected and used for,
allegedly used for the benefit of inmates.
And I know that personally,
I would forward that tax and you know,
get rid of the gardening and things of that nature
to make my phone calls cheaper, you know what I mean?
Commissioner: Yeah, and this is something you're reading
for the County of Madera or the city of Madera.
Anthony: This is the County of Madera.
Commissioner: Okay, thank you very much.
Anthony: No problem, thank you.
Judge: Okay, thanks, Mr. Salvatierra.
Operator if we could take the next call, please.
Operator: And our next caller is Jessica Nihar.
You may go ahead.
Jessica: Yes, may name is Jessica Nihar.
My loved one is actually at Calipatria State prison.
I want to thank you guys for taking the phone call,
and actually even considering lowering our cost.
I just feel like the costs are really high.
Also, there's a lot of people that feel
like they're alone and that people forgot about them.
They see the, you know, the high rates
especially with this pandemic going on.
And a lot of people lost jobs hours
even if it is a job that they did, hour cuts.
And I just wanted to take the time
to tell you guys that we appreciate the fact
that you guys are even considering lowering the cost.
That's pretty pricey and guilty or not, you know,
I don't feel like any loved ones should feel
like they are forgotten, like I said, or even alone
because of the high costs on these phone calls.
That's all I wanted to say.
Judge: Thank you, Ms. Nihar,
appreciate your perspective.
Operator, could we take the next call please?
Operator: Our next caller is Tanya.
You may go ahead.
Tanya: Okay, hello, it was mentioned earlier
that some of the revenues generated
from the additional fees charged on these calls,
support other programs and there were no details
that were provided on what these programs were.
And if, I mean and who they benefit
do they benefit the inmate or in some way the family,
if not is it really necessary to include
these additional fees for some service
that we already cannot afford?
I would like to propose that to remove
these fees that support other programs
or use the revenue generated by them
to benefit the families in some ways, for example,
supporting programs to benefit the inmates
with resources that they will need upon their release.
So, I mean, there could be a better way to use the fee
if it's really not benefiting us and we're paying for it.
The current cost of the fee structure right now
it seems very excessive and unreasonable.
And it appears that these companies are exploiting
and benefiting from our distresses because
for me, it's essential to my mental and physical health
that I stay in contact with my families
who are incarcerated and I'm sure that
many other families feel the same way that I do
that it is essential for them and that
we're even willing to suffer and go without
other necessities to make sure that
we're getting what we that contact
with those that we love.
So it seems insensitive and harsh
for this company to unfairly profit from our hardship.
So I just wanted to say that I do appreciate
any consideration for the reduction in these costs
or anything that can be given that is free
for the services that we need because
we really do need to stay in touch with our loved ones.
And hopefully, the board will vote that
to reduce these charges or to restructure it
in some way. thank you.
Judge: Thank you, Tanya.
And yes, we are looking at the costs
of providing these services.
And as part of that, we are looking at the
Commission fees that are charged
and which sometimes then are used
towards programs in the facilities.
So thanks for raising that program
as well as some of the previous callers mentioned that.
Operator, we'll take the next caller
when you're ready.
Operator: And the next caller is William Palmer.
Go ahead, William, your line is open.
William: Hello, my name is William Palmer.
I'm also with legal services for prisoners
and children, and All of Us or None.
I am a member of the San Francisco
Jail justice coalition, the San Francisco jail coalition.
And I helped to eliminate calls in prison.
I'm calling to share my lived experience as well.
I served 31 years and 22 days,
the court deemed that 23 years of those
31 were constituted excessive punishment.
During that time, my mother would ask me
to call once a month because the price of calling
at that time was so high that she just
couldn't afford to speak to me.
There were times where I bought or used cell phones.
And at that time I was able to speak to her
whenever I wanted, as long as I needed and
a long time, me and my father were disconnected.
He was in prison while I was free
and I was in prison, he was free while I was in prison.
And so we were trying to arrange a meeting with each other
to be able to catch up and, you know, bridge that gap.
So one of those times I used the cell phone
and we talked for quite a long time.
We caught up when I used from birth to about age 40.
And it was so similar his life and mine
that I started to understand myself
and I was looking forward to talking to him some more.
However, a week after that
on father's day he passed away.
My mother passed away about a year or so
after that and I wasn't able to
speak at the funeral, whether over a phone or not.
Those years in those times and that connection
had been stripped of me from the
illegal practices of CDCR not only in time
that they took from my life but creating
economics slavery by using phone calls
as a form of disconnect.
These policies have been around since reconstruction,
Jim Crow laws and so on and so forth.
Economic slavery is placed upon those
who are financially burdened by a war on crime,
war on property, war on education.
So with that, I like to read some of the testimony
of that also in jails that we sent a survey to
when we asked them that if they had a chance
to speak to you today what would they say
about jail phone calls and the impact
to your time in jail and one of them said,
speaking with my family helped my mental health
and made it easier for me.
Another questioned how has free phone calls
impacted your family and support network outside?
It has helped us financially,
the phone calls are not a burden.
And last, what would you like the CA
public utility Commission to understand
about the importance of phone calls
to incarcerated people and their family?
The phone calls and they said, this is a quote
from a person incarcerated,
the phone calls are important for us
in our families to keep us connected
and we can get help when we meet.
I like to, and with that, I'd like to just
wrap up by saying, I would like...
I'm coping 'cause I would like the Commission
to make phone calls free.
It is a small step in a large journey
of any mass incarceration and the
involuntary servitude in our constitution
that we are trying to get removed,
but it's a small step and removing
the vastitude of Jim Crow and re-incarceration
of former slaves and their descendants
and people of disadvantage and low-income neighborhoods.
Thank you for your patience and time
and your consideration in making phone calls
free for all those in prison.
Judge: Okay, thank you, Mr. Palmer,
appreciate your perspective.
Operator, if we could please take the next caller.
Operator: And before we go to the next caller
if a party do want to make a public comment
please press *1, unmute your phone.
And if you are incarcerated,
please state that when prompted for your name
and our next caller is Brenda Deese,
you may go ahead.
Brenda: Hello, my name is Brenda Deese.
First of all, I could only hope
for free phone calls and access to technology
such as tablets, JPay, et cetera
to be available to incarcerated inmates.
Calls will always be a vital tool
to an inmate success now and after this pandemic.
Rates should, at a minimum be discounted rates
or fair and reasonable rates.
Commission fees are a huge concern.
Therefore, the only reason I could see
for Commission fees would be for programs
providing inmate enrichment programs.
And with that being said, I think that
there should definitely be transparency
concerning the revenue or monies from Commission fees
to make sure that it's being used for
inmate rehabilitation and education programs.
And that it's actually going to the inmate.
(coughs)
Excuse me, because as it is I find it hard
to understand how we can reasonably expect anyone
with limited resources to pay
for their own rehabilitative programs.
So please understand that, if I could have it my way
I would like to see the Commission fees
did not exist because I don't think that
we should be making money off of our inmates.
This place is an unrealistic burden
on the inmate and the family.
And remember their successes also benefits
our communities and we really don't want to be
a barrier to an inmates' success.
I'm glad for the chance to speak, thank you.
Judge: Thank you, Ms. Geese.
Yes, as we mentioned earlier we are aware
of the issue of Commission fees.
Our role in looking at this is to examine
the actual cost of providing the services.
And that's what we'll be looking at
when the Commission considers regulating these charges.
Commissioner, any comments or questions from you,
if not then operator if you could please
call the next caller.
Operator: Thank you, our next caller is Sheree Rivera.
You may go ahead, your line is open.
Sheree: Hi there.
Thanks for this opportunity
for us to give our comments.
I guess I just wanted to give a little bit
of my experience with this.
My dad is in state prison of the California men's colony,
which is hundreds of miles away from any relative.
As a full-time worker, it's almost impossible
for me to make it there more than once, maybe twice a year.
I am the only family member who's
visited him in nearly 10 years.
I also wanted to say that his family like his mom,
his brothers, none of them take responsibility
for providing for him like for commissary
or phone calls, letters, no one accepts his phone calls.
He doesn't have anyone to call.
No one writes back to him except for me and my brother.
This undue burden shouldn't fall upon people's children
as I'm the sole supporter of my dad.
And it's ridiculous that there is a cost at all
for people to stay in touch with their families via phone.
If San Francisco could do it,
I think everywhere else can do it too.
I push for calls to be free, or at the very least
if people could get one call a week
and have a bare minimum fees.
I also support implementing better technology at prisons
for families to have better options of contacting.
As I said before it's very difficult
to see my father in person.
I live in the Bay Area, he's in San Francisco,
it would take all day, it takes all day to see him,
and often it's, you know just visiting him
causes chronic pain, it's a lot of gas money
so yeah, there's just a huge undue burden on families.
And in my particular situation, I'm his child.
So yeah, I just wanted to say that many people
with incarcerated loved ones can, you know,
can't even afford the service.
So I'd like to yield the rest of my time and thank you.
Judge: Thank you, Ms. Rivera, appreciate that
and sorry to hear about your father's and your situation.
Operator could we take the next caller, please?
Operator: Our next caller is number 14.
You may go ahead, your line is open.
Caller: Thank you for taking my call.
I appreciate the fact that you're
doing these public hearings.
I am the mother of an incarcerated person
and I was excited when I got the message from Securus
that this meeting was going to be available.
I asked my son what comments he would like
me to make on his behalf.
Our situation is that we are retired parents
and we have made the decision to use funds
to maintain daily phone calls with our son.
And from listening to the other callers,
I think our fees are quite a bit less
than they are dealing with.
It may be because my son is in a County jail facility.
But one of the things he... The thing he wanted me
to express to you was that he felt like
the telephone situation hindered people
from receiving the legal representation
that they should be able to receive.
In our nation we're supposed to have
equal rights under the law and he feels like
the limited access to being able to contact
legal help or to have the legal help call in
and contact them is a real problem.
And that people don't have the representation
they should have because the phone system is expensive.
He said many of the men he encounters
don't have access to building up
a fund of money so that they can make phone calls.
That's all I have to say.
Once again, thank you for
the opportunity to make these.
Judge: Thank you, caller, appreciate that.
That is something we have heard about before.
So it's helpful for you to bring that
to our attention today and this hearing
it hasn't been raised previously
sometime it may be once or twice.
So, thanks for those comments.
Operator, could we take the next caller, please?
Operator: Yes, our next caller is number 15.
You may go ahead, your line is open.
Caller: Hi, yes thank you so much
for the space to share our experience.
I have a loved one in the SAC County jail
and it's an extreme financial burden for me
and his parents just to speak to him regularly.
It's been emotionally and mental health-wise
particularly difficult because visits were stopped
for long periods of time due to COVID concerns
because he also contracted COVID in the jail.
And due to the fact that the jail has opted
to keep folks on the inside locked down
often for 24 hours a day for days at a time,
whenever there have been nearby protest
against police violence against our communities
as were started in the summer, last summer.
It's just been a real struggle
for him to stay afloat emotionally
and calls with me and other family members
have been the main connections he's had
with the outside world for over a year.
The calls are outrageously expensive
and I was going to go through the math
but I think that's something that's easy to do
and understand, and other people have done that.
So I'm going to skip it but I am going to say this
that the taxes go up with the fees.
And so, you know, the last time I put money
I put a hundred bucks and I had to pay 20 bucks in taxes.
And then there was a fee as well
and this is for the SAC County jail.
So the last caller mentioned that
County jails may not have to pay as much
and that's just not true in SAC County in fact,
I called and found out that a lot of the
costs in the California state prison system
are cheaper because that's where this
loved one of mine is destined to go
eventually once things move.
So incarcerated people, many of whom
are already lower income are already being
exploited for essential commissary items
like food and toiletries as was already mentioned.
Phone calls with our loved ones on the inside,
let's just give them hope and care
while they're in a cold and uncaring place.
My loved one says the talking to me
is the very best part of his day.
And it's hard to convey to me he says,
how much it matters to him to hear my voice
and feel my love while he's stuck somewhere
that feels very, where he feels very much
uncared for him where he was made ill with COVID.
And after several months still hasn't fully recovered.
To allow companies to make massive profits
on the backs of incarcerated people
and their loved ones is very inhumane
and exploitative as a lot of people
have already mentioned and contrary, I think
to what some callers said previously here, that,
you know it's just business and they have to make a profit
like honestly, the best word to describe
what they're doing is actually predatory in my mind.
And also there's a lot of evidence for that
is one of the callers mentioned
the nearly a hundred thousand dollar profit
in a year for these companies.
So, the phone rates along with the fees
and high taxes on top of them, so unfair,
and as you've heard put great financial burden
on family members and loved ones like me.
And I just urge you to stop these companies
from profiting off of the misfortune of others.
I urge you to remove these extreme barriers
to providing care and love to our loved ones
who are incarcerated and I urge you to slash prices now,
preferably making them free as Mr. Palmer,
which is very touching story just mentioned
and I was in tears actually hearing about that.
And I hope that that can make its way
into your heart and help you act now
if the other callers said that if San Francisco
can do it, so can the whole state.
And I really believe that reducing
jail and prison call charges will give...
By doing that you really have a chance
to make a positive difference in people's lives
and promote a sense of humanity in the world.
So I urge you to do that and I thank you so much
for hearing me out, appreciate it.
Judge: Great, thank you, caller.
Appreciate your calling in.
And yeah, we are looking at the charges
call charged by the providers who provide
calling services in federal prisons, state jails,
County jails, and as our staff member
Karo Serle mentioned as we got started,
the rates do vary very widely between
different County jails, as well
as compared to the state system.
So we are trying to take a look at all that
and we do appreciate your call.
Caller: That's great, thanks so much.
Judge: Operator, could you call our next caller, please.
Operator: Our next caller is, oh, sorry.
Kelly Walters, you may go ahead your line is open.
Kelly: Good afternoon, members of the Commission.
My name is Kelly Walter, I'm calling on behalf
of legal services for prisoners and children.
We advocate for incarcerated people,
formerly incarcerated people, and the families
that are affected by such incarceration.
(clears throat)
I cannot overstate the importance
of incarcerated persons need
to maintain contact with their families.
This affects their well-being while inside,
the likelihood that the re-entry will be successful,
in general, rates of recidivism.
The astronomical fees required
to maintain contact between families
and their incarcerated loved ones
makes this contact nearly impossible.
As you've heard many personal stories all afternoon.
As it is, families of the incarcerated
are among the most vulnerable to impoverishment.
Additionally, they are disproportionately people of color.
So for communications companies such as Securus and GTL
to prey on these families with the threat
of being entirely cut off from their parents,
siblings, and other family members
is abhorrent and morally repugnant.
Further for the state to rely on these companies
which gouged families is a violation
of human rights and arguably a violation
of due process and equal protection.
As such we hope that you will institute regulations
that limit this exploitation and value these families
and their basic right to remain together.
I would like to thank you for your time.
Judge: Thank you Ms. Walters for that perspective,
appreciate that, appreciate your
calling in and taking the time.
And we will hear the next callers in just a minute.
And just a reminder for folks to,
you do not need to provide your name,
if you would like to, please go ahead
and state your name and then spell your name
as you get started and please speak slowly
for our court reporters.
Operator, could you call our next speaker, please?
Operator: Our next caller is Greg Padilla.
You may go ahead, your line is open.
Greg: Good afternoon, y name is Greg Padilla.
That's G-R-E-G, Padilla, P-A-D-I-L-L-A.
I'm a bail agent, I've been a bail agent for 38 years.
I'm also the president of the Golden State
Bail Agents Association so I work with
bail agencies throughout the state.
Well, I have a lot of compassion for some of the people
that are calling in with loved ones who are incarcerated.
And I get that this is a thing
of compassion for these folks.
I hate seeing race brought into this
'cause this is colorblind.
This has nothing to do with race.
This has to do with an industry
within the criminal justice system,
that in way back, used to be a lot more profitable.
What people do need to understand is that
there is cost to having these phones in these jails.
I'm not defending them having these
high exorbitant costs but there is a cost
to these systems, the infrastructure,
and quite often cords are ripped out of the wall
by the inmates and stuff like that.
And that does cost these folks money
to have to come in there and do that.
That is not a defense for charging exorbitant fees
but I'm just saying they cannot be free.
And I would never advocate oh,
they should be free and they should be offered
at no cost because that's just not possible.
So with that being said, some of the things
that I'd like to bring into the Commission's attention
is and some of them are addressed,
but I will go through them.
The time of connection, I understand that some
of these phone companies have a connection
time limit of 15-minutes, for instance.
Well, the problem with that is
for us, say in the bail industry and or an attorney,
if you put a limit on that call
the person's got to do their 15-minutes,
hang up, call back, hang up,
call back, hang up, call back.
If it's an extended call, we got to pay
a connection fee every time they call back.
Just one other great way to make money,
which is not right.
One of the other callers talked about
that connection fee and how much it is.
The calls are also disconnected because of poor quality.
If these phone systems hear clicking noise
or any noise that will queue as though
it's thinking it's a three-way call
or something's going on, it will disconnect that call
by process, because it thinks it's making a free call
and boom, your call, you're off the call.
And they got to recall back and reconnect again.
Those are problems.
One more, somebody talked about the Sacramento County jail
if you have not seen the Sacramento County jails
phone system down in the booking, it is inhumane.
The earpiece and the mouthpiece are mounted on the wall.
The person, if you're short, you're pretty well screwed.
You have to get up on a bench,
put your ear and your mouth and you've gotta talk
against a wall because they don't have phone cords there
'cause they got tired of these cords being ripped out.
So those are things that, you know
people can't hear the call, the call quality is horrible.
Another one is billing issues.
There, in fact, we just dealt with one yesterday,
one of the phone companies because
we're in the bail business we take, you know,
we talked about how much it costs.
It probably costs us anywhere from 15 to $20,000 a month
in collect calls from these jails.
And we have to at some jails do prepay,
some jails we have to have a credit card on file
and some companies bill us.
Well, the fact of the matter is
they ought to offer, you can either do it A, B or C
because we've been cut off from several jails
in the last few days ad we did not know it.
We had no clue they had no, they did not tell us
they didn't for warn us, we were just cut off.
And that, you know, that's something that's
a customer service thing these people are in jail
they're trying to call us and they can't
because they can't get through to us.
So, and one more thing their integrity and billing.
I don't know if any of the callers on here,
yeah you put say a $30 in credit
and then the next thing you know, they want more money.
Where is the integrity?
Show me how much, how long I've been on the phone
and for how long, email me that billing
so I can see, yeah, hey, we need to
shorten these calls up or did I really,
was I really on the phone for that $30 in time?
Next thing is when a person has just booked
into the jail, into jails in California,
if you do not have an account set up
with some of these systems
and I'm not going to name which ones,
but with some of them and you're trying to call home
to mom, dad, brother, sister, aunt, or uncle
sorry for going too fast.
You might not be able to get through to them
because the system won't allow you to
because they don't have an account set up.
And then it starts blabbing off information
about what you have to do to get an account set up.
Well, if you don't have pen and paper next to you
or a recorder to record what the heck
they just said, you're done.
You're not getting an account set up
and that's just not right.
There should be better information
inside the facilities about how these can work.
People should be able to send that information
to their loved ones so that they know
what they've got to do on the outside
to be able to accept a call.
But again, there should be better ways
to do that when somebody's just booked in.
Judge: Sir, excuse me Mr. Padilla, if I may interrupt you
just for a minute- Greg: If someone
doesn't answer. you know,
the phone's ringing and say you get through it
on the fourth or fifth ring the recordings
for who's calling from what facility
and what button to push start off-
Judge: Hello, Mr. it looks like Mr. Padilla
was cut off, not sure what happened there.
We, I was trying to reach him to ask him
to slow down a little bit.
It seems as though he couldn't hear me.
Operator if Mr. Padilla is still on the line
if you could unmute his line and
we'll have him finish and I'll first
ask him if he could slow down a little bit.
Greg: 38 years being in this business
I've ever participated in one of these calls
and somebody from the government
has ever took time to listen.
And I pray to the good Lord that
unlike hearings at the Capitol
where those legislators could care less
what anybody in the public says,
I pray to the good Lord that this Commission
really listens to what these folks said
and do something about it.
One of the things about conference calls,
you know, there's times that somebody will be incarcerated-
Operator: Excuse me, Mr. Padilla
Padilla: Oh, what's that? Judge: Mr. Padilla?
Padilla: Yes, go ahead.
Judge: Yeah, can you hear me?
Padilla: Yes, I can now.
Judge: Okay, great thank you for your comments
are really useful and interesting.
If you could just slow down a little bit,
if you don't mind and if you could go ahead
and wrap up shortly, we'd appreciate it.
Greg: Okay, I apologize, I didn't realize
I couldn't, I was talking over you.
I apologize for that.
I'm just that- Judge: No problem.
Greg: You know, it's a situation,
the last thing I'm going to say
and this is probably the most important thing
and I don't know what heart you would have in this.
When these folks make calls out of this jail
and they're talking to a loved one
there should be a much better disclosure.
These calls are being recorded
and anything you say can and will be used
against you in a court of law.
There's a lot of people that bury themselves
when they're in jail because these calls are recorded
and then that information and that evidence
is used against them.
And again, I don't know that your Commission
has the ability to do anything about it,
but those disclosures should be more
readily available for the inmates.
Judge: Okay, thank you, Mr. Padilla.
That's was a the very interesting comments.
There is lots that you said there so
we appreciate that very much and encourage you
to keep on participating in this and other public hearings.
Excuse me, operator if you wouldn't mind
calling the next caller we'll go ahead.
Operator: Our next caller is Flo Kelly.
You may go ahead, your line is open.
Flo: Can you hear me now?
Judge: Yes, I can Flo: Can you hear me?
Okay, great, okay.
Yeah, my name is Flo Kelly, F-L-O K-E-L-L-Y.
At one time in my life,
I visited my husband in the prison in Vacaville.
We had a car and we lived in the Bay Area.
So we were able to visit my husband
in person once a week, for sure.
For most families, that distance from home
to prison is far too great for frequent in-person visits.
The ability to make frequent phone calls
is absolutely necessary in order to stay
in close communication with family.
For children whose parent is incarcerated,
this communication is even more important.
Studies show that recidivism is reduced
when an individual remains in contact with family members.
Our family and community of friends was well-prepared
to welcome my husband when he was released.
Phone calls from imprisoned folks
in California should be free of cost.
California prisons and jails
both should be free of cost.
There is a cost as the last speaker said,
there is a cost to pay for guards,
broken toilets, mail, et cetera.
And that cost is not passed on to family.
Why should phone calls be?
I am grateful to the San Francisco financial
justice project working with community members
and they were able to reduce all San Francisco
jail phone calls to zero costs.
Thank you.
Judge: Thank you, Ms. Kelly, appreciate your comments.
Operator, could we take the next caller, please.
Operator: Yes, and before we go to the next caller
again if you would like to make a public comment today,
please unmute your phone, press *1.
And when prompted, if you are incarcerated
please just state you are incarcerated.
And our next caller is Martha.
You may go ahead, your line is open.
Martha: Hi, my name is Martha Renuncio
and my daughter was in Las Colinas.
And I wasn't like was mentioned able to get
all the information to set up a call
because they say too fast and hang out.
So my daughter's left a voicemail,
that cost me $4 and 43 cents for listening
one minute of the voicemail.
I saw these very expensive,
but I was need to hear the instruction,
the how to set up the account to communicate with her.
And I was able to set up the account
and the time that she was in Los Colinas,
I was founded in that account and one time
I put a $50 and the charges is $3 and 40 cents
so $50 and 50% and they don't put it in the account.
So they take it from my card,
but they don't put it in to credit
the phone call for my daughter.
So I was need to give up to getting the money
and bring more money to keep the
communication going with my daughter.
I think they really no fair for us
to be charging and all the charges from the phone calls
from the voicemails, from the video calls
and plus they taking all money from on the card
that we are putting on and don't
give the credit for the phone calls.
And I tried to call the company.
I stay for four hours waiting for the operator
to answer the phone call and nobody
answer me for three days.
So I give up, I said, you know
I need to still need to talk to my daughter
and resigned that I lost my money that
we are working hard and try to
keep up with the bills and everything.
But the most important part for me was
keep the communication going with my daughter
because she had a deep depression.
And I want to be sure that she's still alive
every time I was calling.
This is my comment that it is not fair.
Plus the high charges they do it are the phone calls
and all the services they provide
and there's bad quality, they eat you, taking money
from accounts and don't give you the credit.
Thank you for me.
Judge: Thank you, Martha.
Yeah, go ahead, Commissioner.
Commissioner: Thank you, well, first, Martha,
I just wondered who the company was.
I know you mentioned- Martha: Securus.
Commissioner: Securus, okay.
Thank you. Judge: And Martha!
I just wanted to make you aware,
this is Judge Fogel.
I'm not sure when this happened with your
depositing the money and it being debited,
but no credit appearing on your daughters
on your calling account but if you'd like to
you can call our public advisor's office
and get some assistance looking into this further.
And I'll give you the number right here.
It's 1 866 849 8390.
Again, that's 1 866 849 8390.
So if you'd like to call them they can assist you
with looking into the charging issue.
Martha: Thank you, Judge.
Yes, and it was in, March 19, 2021.
Judge: Okay, all right well, I recommend
if you could call that number and then
those folks on the public advisor's office
may be able to help you.
Martha: Thank you.
Judge: Thank you.
Operator, if you could please call our next speaker.
Operator: Our next caller is Noemi Perales.
You may go ahead, your line is open.
Noemi: HI, my name is Noemi Perales,
N-O-E-M-I, P-E-R-A-L-E-S.
First of all, thank you so much for
hosting this public hearing.
My brother has been incarcerated for the past
11 years and this is the first time
in those 11 years that I received any notification
that advocate to help them.
Some people have mentioned about
the prices of food, travel expenses for visiting
or just how long we have to wait
when we visit, all of that.
So thank you for reaching out.
Usually, it's the other way around.
So I wanna share a little bit of our story.
I'll be sharing on behalf of my niece.
She is 15-years old, her father has been in there
since she was like three, four years old.
And those 15-minutes calls mean everything,
everything to her and I'm sorry
if I get a little bit emotional
it just means so much to our family.
He tries to call every single day,
but obviously yes because of the pandemic
but even before that, there's always been, you know
things here and there that have made it difficult, right
to be able to pay for those phone calls
but he still tries to keep that connection.
He tries to call her every single day.
But in addition, to emphasize on how important
those 15-minute calls are I want to say
to please consider increasing the 15-minutes
to 30 minutes because 15-minutes
you should be turning to 10-minutes
because the phone call gets disconnected
or some issues with the audio or anything
it just ends up being like 10-minutes.
Or usually what we hear him saying is,
oh, it's already someone else's turn.
I really don't know how it works inside the prison
but usually, that's what he ends up telling us.
So please do consider 30-minute calls
at least twice maybe a week.
I do also advocate for the cost to be free.
Yes, nothing in this world is free.
Of course, somebody has to pay for that.
But what I'm saying for it to be free
for these families, for those making the phone calls
per person also in the families.
I'm pretty sure California being
one of the richest states in the whole country
and in the whole world can figure out
you know, alternatives on who can,
or how those costs can be paid.
I guess the biggest problem right now
is the fact that they're monopolies.
And unfortunately, the phone companies are monopolies
and there's no competition there,
there's really no incentive for them to reduce it.
So thank you for attempting to provide
some regulation in that area.
Lastly, what I want to share is that
let's say this does go through, right?
And you're able to at least put some regulation
in there that might increase demand,
which it should you know, more people will be calling.
So I would say, you know, please be ready
for that demand because the last thing we want
is that there's big improvement
and we're able to finally get a free call
or longer calls with our loved ones who are incarcerated.
But we can't because everyone is
in line waiting to make a phone call.
So please work with the institutions
to have a plan to address that demand.
So I'm not going to touch on everything else
that everyone has had amazing points
and amazing stories to tell,
thank you everyone who has actually
taken the time to join.
And thank you for listening to our comments.
Thank you.
Judge: Oh yeah, thank you Ms. Perales,
appreciate your calling and it's a really good point.
Many points that you made that haven't been made previously.
So thank you for taking the time to call in.
There's no questions from the Commissioner.
We'll go ahead and take the next caller please.
Operator: And our next caller is from Marisol.
You may go ahead, your line is open.
Marisol: Hello, good afternoon.
My name is Marisol Leon.
I'm calling on behalf of my husband who's incarcerated
in East Mesa facility in San Diego.
Phone company that is used is Securus.
My husband is serving three years
but currently is fighting his case.
He's been incarcerated since January.
I've had to change my phone number
to a different state area code in order to get
the 21 cents per minute rate to make it more affordable.
The California rate is 33 cents per minute.
Not including the $3 add on fees that
are added every time you deposit
or per phone time on your phone.
And we do have kids, we have a baby on the way
and he's there for every appointment.
So trying to break that 20-minutes
or 15-minutes a day that we have with him
every day it adds up to 500 or more a month.
Aside from that, I also keep him connected
with his mother who has cancer
and just hearing from her son,
it makes a huge difference to her.
It makes her day and just keeping her
everyday like, he doesn't talk to her every day,
but twice a week we try to communicate with her
and it's really expensive.
So I'm not asking for the cost to be free
but they should have a service that makes
the calls cheaper to get the lowest rate
to stay connected to our loved ones.
And that's all I have to say.
Judge: Thank you, Marisol.
Would you mind stating your last name again,
(indistinct)
Marisol: Leon, L-E-O-N.
Judge: L-E-O-N, Marisol Leon.
Marisol: Yeah, yeah.
Judge: Okay, thank you for calling in,
appreciate your sharing about your experience.
Marisol: Thank you.
Commissioner: Can I ask a follow-up question to Marisol?
Marisol: Yeah, yeah.
Commissioner: said you had to change
your phone number, yeah?
Marisol: Yeah!
Commissioner: Yes, could you explain?
Marisol: Because the California area
it's like 33 cents per minute rate.
And I had to like, kind of look into to see what,
you know what area code I can get it cheaper.
So I had to change it to a Vegas area code
in order to get a lower, permanent recall
and I can afford having the children and you know
all of us talk to him and stay connected.
Commissioner: I'm sorry, did you say you had to
change it to the Vegas area code?
Marisol: Yeah, to a Vegas area code
to get the 21 cents per minute rate.
Commissioner: And what was it before?
Marisol: 33 cents per minute.
Commissioner: The area code was what before?
Marisol: That area code was 760 here in San Diego.
Commissioner: When you previously had a San Diego number-
Marisol: I did.
Commissioner: And he is in the San Diego County jail?
Marisol: Yeah, he is.
Commissioner: So you had a local number
calling into the local San Diego County jail
and it was cheaper for you to get a Las Vegas Nevada number.
Marisol: Yes.
Commissioner: Okay, I have no idea how that works.
Marisol: Yeah, it's cheaper by the minute
I had to look into it to be able to,
(Marisol chuckles)
Commissioner: And this is a, no, no, no
rate sheet that you got from Securus?
Marisol: Yes, that's the rate that I got
from Securus but it's still really expensive.
Commissioner: I see.
Judge: Commissioner, it could be related to
the fact that the FCC has regulated
the rates for interstate calls.
Commissioner: Yes, you could say that, excellent point.
Thank you very much, Marisol.
Marisol: Thank you for hearing me out.
Judge: Great, operator let's go ahead to the next call.
Operator: Our next caller is Devonna Banks.
You may go ahead, your line is open.
Devonna: Hi, my name is Devonna Banks.
D-E-V-O-N-N-A, Banks B-A-N-K-S.
So I've been on the call the whole time
and I have heard several people referring
to the cost for inmates.
We have a son that has been incarcerated for over 11 years.
So obviously anybody can do the math
and know that it's been thousands upon thousands
upon thousands of dollars that we've spent
over the years just to try to communicate with them.
The hardest part is that whenever the
correction officers decide that this is
a form of punishment, that it doesn't allow for them
to be able to reach out and, you know
talk to someone outside of that space.
And so it causes more and more conflict
within them personally and that's more burdensome
to me than it is the cost of the call.
The fact that they have limited amounts
of actual phones in the facilities is ridiculous to me.
And I've called Heathen Lancaster.
And I've called several times,
tried to speak to either you know,
either the warden or a watch commander,
a lieutenant, or someone to find out like,
how can they get more phones in the facility
or what have you and to no avail.
There's never really an answer for anything.
It's almost as though we're being treated like
we're less than human because we have someone
that we love that's incarcerated.
And I think that what's-
Judge: Ms. Banks, we can't hear you now.
Can you try saying something?
Devonna: Can you hear me now?
Judge: Yeah, now we can hear you.
Devonna: Okay, I was just saying that I think
that the hardest part for me is knowing that
he's having a hard time dealing with prison as it is,
and the fact that they can get phone calls
and there so many hundreds of people that are
in this facility and they use this as like
the carrot in front of the horse
that if you do right we'll allow you
to talk on the phone, but when they do,
they like cut their calls off.
They'll just like, you know disconnect
whenever we're in the middle of a conversation.
And it happens so many times that it's like
it's too many to even count over these last years.
But what I would want for you all to consider
is that because it's being charged to the families
and the loved ones of the people that are incarcerated,
that perhaps if the charges were then shifted
to the prisons themselves and allow them
to start having to pay for these calls
or there'll be like some sort of pot of money
that they would have, I mean that
they would have to pay into for every time
that we are charged for calls that are dropped.
I mean, not even that they're dropped
'cause let's be honest, a lot of them are not dropped
it's that they're purposely disconnected
from the correction officers because of
whatever their issue is with that particular inmate
or what have you, or something's going on
they'll just decide like, oh, you have to get off the phone.
And I don't think that that's fair
to those of us that are paying money
every single month for just to be able
to speak to our loved ones.
And my son is my firstborn child.
And as difficult as it is that we're dealing
with this at all, it makes it even more hard
or it makes it harder, I should say that
we have to deal with these types of ethics
from a prison system that is supposed to be
a rehabilitating, if you will, and trying to
help them to be better, to come home
as opposed to making them worse to stay there.
And that's all I have to say.
Judge: Thank you, Ms. Banks.
And did you mention which correctional facility
your son is in at this time that you're referring to?
Devonna: He's at the Lancaster facility.
Judge: Okay.
Devonna: California State in Lancaster, yes.
Judge: All right, all right.
Thank you for your call, appreciate that.
And sorry to hear about those experiences.
Devonna: Thank you.
Judge: Operator, do we have any more callers?
If so, if you could go ahead and call the next caller.
Operator: Our next caller is Miguel Bautista.
Your line is open, you may go ahead.
Miguel: One second.
My name is Miguel Bautista and I have
a loved one that is incarcerated.
I know that he committed a mistake,
but he is my family so I still love him.
And just getting his calls I know can really
make a difference in his day.
That's a positive day for inmates,
means less violence and pretty cool.
The cost of calls might lower.
I don't know how much I've spent but
I try to help him out the most I can.
That's all I gotta say.
Judge: Oops, sorry I was on mute.
Thank you, Mr. Bautista, we appreciate you calling in.
Miguel: Yeah, you're welcome.
Judge: Thanks.
Next caller, please.
Operator: Our next caller is Terric,
your line is open.
Terric: Hi, my name is Terric and I called before.
However, I wanted to say that one of the things
that we have not mentioned is the free calls
for attorney visits.
In the practice that I've known
by being incarcerated there is no
free attorney visits in private.
You're either in front of your counselor
you're in front of other people.
And if you have sensitive information
anybody can hear it's not right.
It's not only should it be free
but it should also be in a private setting.
So if I know that for me I was dealing with a
California Supreme court case that allowed
youth offenders to get out on in a meaningful way.
If it was not for my attorney being more
high profile and demanding certain privacies,
we wouldn't been able to talk as freely
and just having attorney visits
because they were close enough to do so.
So it's very imperative that we use this time
to also look at the legal aspects
of people incarcerated whether in jail or prison,
who's fighting for their freedom, thank you.
Judge: Thank you, Terric.
Operator, we can hear the next caller, please.
Operator: Our next caller is Bill Pope.
Your line is open.
Bill: Hi, my name's Bill Pope B-I-L-L P-O-P-E.
I'm the president and a major owner
of NCC inmate communications.
We provide service in almost 60 County
and city jails in the state of California.
Last June, we acquired I want to say we acquired
about 30 accounts from almost 40 accounts
from legacy, long-distance legacy and
make phone services
where they had been charging as much
as a dollar 25 per minute and we lowered quickly
lowered those rates down to 25 cents per minute or lower.
I know a San Bernardino juvenile facilities that
actually went to offering free calls for their juveniles.
So anyways, I just kinda wanted to touch base
on the opening statements we submitted last night.
One of the questions was, do the parties agree
with the staff's proposal being the
California public utility Commission,
finding that the current interest state
inmate calling service rates in California are unreasonable.
And my comment was absolutely, a lack of regulation
has been allowing providers to regulate themselves
which is definitely failing in California.
Our industry is too competitive.
They cannot regulate themselves.
We all need to be forced into line.
And one of the other comments I wanted
to touch base on was the item number six
on that do the parties agree with the
staff's proposals recommendation for
the Commission to adopt the FCCS interim rate caps
of 21 cents per minute for debit calls
and 25 cents per minute for collect calls.
And I said, yes, but the staff needs to clarify
that per call transaction fees
for single payment calls will not be permitted.
This was an error on part of the FCC
and there's a bit been abused by providers
charging between $2 and $13 and 10 cents
for a single transaction fee on a single call.
And we heard earlier on this call, one of the callers
Melania Lefaber was talking where she was
receiving a $3 per call fee on all of her calls.
So that was a specific instance of a provider
in California charging a $3 per call transaction fee.
The FCC in their 2015 ruling banned per-call surcharges.
So some inmate phone providers got creative
and changed it to a transaction fee
because the FCC did allow a transaction fee via IVR.
So they took that as they could add a per call
transaction fee as opposed to a surcharge.
So I just wanted to make sure that
the California PUC is taking that in consideration
when they set the caps to ban any type of
per call transaction, be surcharge
or whatever it might be called.
Finally-
Judge: Oh, okay Mr. Pope if you could please
wrap it up shortly as a party you do have other
opportunities to weigh in but if you could just
wrap up your remarks shortly.
Bill: Okay, and today the FCC announced
on their May agenda that they will be
putting out a new docket, a new order,
a draft order for caps on inmate phone rates.
So last we heard, they were looking at
capping the rates between 14 cents for large prisons
and 16 cents per minute for County and city jails.
So we will be supporting that.
We'll hear more tomorrow when that gets posted.
So you might be wanting to look,
might want to look at that yourself.
So anyways, I just wanted to cover all that.
Thank you for your time.
Judge: Yeah, thank you Mr. Pope,
and we will be discussing this further
obviously in the rulemaking for this case.
And we'll look forward to your comments there.
Bill: Okay.
Judge: And I understand that the queue
of callers may have dropped off and may be back up.
So I'd like to ask if the Verizon operator
has any other callers on the line.
Operator: I show no additional callers
on the line at this time but again,
if you would like to make a comment
please unmute your phone and press *1.
Judge: Thank you, we'll just wait a couple
of minutes here to see if we have any last callers.
Operator: And please stand by our next caller.
Our next caller is Yolanda.
You may go ahead, your line is open.
Yolanda: Hi, my name is Yolanda
and I am with the Drop LWOP Coalition
and Families United to end the LWOP.
My husband has served 27 years in prison
and the first 18 years of his incarceration
he was only allowed to call home once a month
because his mother could not afford the call.
He calls me every chance he gets
and I am retired on a fixed income,
and it's a heavy burden on the family.
But the contact that we have over the phone
is so important for him.
It is the highlight of his day.
My main concern about this is it's not enough time.
15-minutes is not enough time.
And also the interruption, why does it have to
interrupt us every three and a half minutes it feels like.
We know the calls are being recorded,
we know what they're doing.
So let us enjoy our time on the phone.
Why should we have to pay for the interruption?
It just costs way too much.
It should be a part of the rehabilitation program
and I'll yield my time, thank you.
Judge: Thank you, Yolanda.
If you wouldn't mind telling us
which carceral facility and which companies
you're referring to?
Yolanda: GTL and CSP Sacramento.
Judge: CSP Sacramento, okay.
Yolanda: Mm-hmm!
Judge: Thank you for that and these interruptions
in the calls how long are they, typically.
Yolanda: I don't know, it's enough time for them
to tell us that our call is being recorded.
Commissioner: Okay, so-
Yolanda: It's just a nuisance.
Judge: Few seconds or so.
Yeah yeah.
Yolanda: And why should we pay for the reminder?
We know everything's being recorded.
Judge: Okay, thank you for that.
Thank you for calling in.
Yolanda: No problem and I'm calling on behalf of
all the life without the possibility of parole people
because they're in there for the rest of their lives.
Judge: Right, okay thank you for that Yolanda.
Operator, I think we have two more callers.
I believe these are caller that may have
spoken previously but we can maybe
allow them another minute or so.
If you could introduce the final callers.
Operator: And our next caller is Evelyn,
you may go ahead, your line is open.
Evelyn: Yes, thank you so much for letting me
make a comment as to somebody I have.
My partner is incarcerated at Chevron County jail
and it was like a really big shock for us.
And just the process, like people have been talking
about it already, the cost of calling,
the video calls and I totally understand that
before COVID you could do a person visit.
I am just saying this on behalf of my seven-year-old son
it happened when he was six,
and the interruptions of the calls
or sometimes I had to email security at one point
that I did use a system call that I had paid for.
And I heard nothing back, I called, nothing back.
And I remember how just really hard for families
like myself and many others going through
the same thing, my six, he was six at the time
and seven now and one day he just broke down
and said, mommy can we just go see him?
I don't mind if we drive like for so many hours.
So it's, I don't know with all the legalities
going on now with COVID,
I know before maybe you could visit.
Isn't just that like the video calls
is just the closest thing.
So with all the interruptions and
paying without being able to use it,
or somebody says it's hard to imagine
locked up for those many days,
it's just scary to their growing children.
And how traumatizing not knowing what to do
not knowing when the parents will come out.
So sorry.
Thank you. Judge: Yeah!
Thank you, Evelyn.
Thank you for taking the time to call in.
Operator, I believe we have
now we have two callers who have called previously.
If you could introduce them.
We'll give them another quick minute or so.
Operator: Our next caller is Dee Emmert.
You may go ahead, your line is open.
Dee: Thank you, yeah, I was (indistinct).
I don't know what happened.
I haven't called before but apparently
I was struck from the queue.
Thank you for taking the time to listen.
I know we're well beyond the time
that was allotted for the hearing,
but this is very important.
My name again is D, D as in Deborah
E-E last name Emmert, E-M-M-E-R-T.
Just a couple of things that I haven't heard people mention.
One is for the places where you put money
on the account for phone calls,
then if your loved one is moved to a different facility
you lose whatever money is left in that account.
And there's usually some way to get a refund
but it's both complicated and time-consuming.
And it takes a long time before
you actually get your money back.
So, and of course, just putting money
on an account is a burden as well.
That's money that could be used for food in the meantime.
I also wanted to tell a story that shows,
yeah, I'm used to people being negative
about you if you're a family member of an incarcerated.
I'm the mother of a formerly incarcerated young man
but I wanted to give an example of
how far the burden extends beyond the immediate family.
I have friends who built a bonus room in their attic,
an extra bedroom and their next-door neighbor said,
oh, gee I wish I could do something like that.
Then they said, well, why can't you?
And so these are upper-middle-class folks.
And he said, well, my nephew is in prison.
And so any extra money I have goes to
support the family, help the family out
and to help him out.
And so it's not just the immediate family
but it's the extended family and
the whole community that suffers.
And I recognize that phone calls and commissary
are only a small part of that burden
but everything that adds to that burden
impacts so many people.
So thank you for this opportunity to share
my experience and the experiences
of those that I care about.
Judge: Thank you, thank you, Dee, appreciate that.
And operator, would you like to call the last caller?
I believe we have heard this caller before
but we can listen a little bit longer.
Operator: Our next caller is Milania Lafaber
You may go ahead, your line is open.
Again, Milania your line is open
we're not able to hear you.
Milania: Can you hear me now, hello?
Judge: Yes, we can hear you now.
Yes, we can hear you now.
Milania: Yes, to answer the judge's question on,
the question to Yolanda about the interruption time
that would be about one minute
and 35 seconds interruption time.
And I also wanted to know whether they would be open to
maybe not a minute, you know, where we
don't have to count by the minutes for talking to them
but we can have an, plan just like the cell phones
where we can have unlimited time during the month
to talk for a certain fee, if that's permissible.
And with that, maybe a little extra for video calls?
Judge: Ms. Lefaber, we can't
hear you now, are you there?
Milania: Yes, I'm here, can you hear me?
Judge: Oh yeah, now we can hear you.
Last thing we heard was if you were talking about
if there could be like a cell phone plan
and perhaps something similar for video calls.
Milania: Yeah, it's a cell phone plan
for unlimited phone calls for a certain fee a month.
And then with a little extra that we would pay
on top of that for video calls as well.
Judge: Okay thank you for that suggestion.
Milania: Yes.
Judge: That's something we can look into.
Milania: Mm-hmm.
Judge: Thank you.
Milania: You're welcome.
Judge: Operator, I believe there's
one or two more callers.
If you could go ahead and call them
and we will be wrapping up in about
5 or 10-minutes here so
possibly our last caller.
Operator: All right, our next caller is Sarah Michaels.
You may go ahead, your line is open.
Sarah: Yes, so I am a therapist
and I have a loved one that's also incarcerated.
So I have many clients or clients whose loved ones
are incarcerated or they are the incarcerated person.
And for the past 10 years, I have had to have
over 20 different DTL accounts.
I have recently started I'm recording
the phone calls with them,
but just a prime example of something
that that company does that monopolizes off
these families and off myself.
For example, if I go to the website
to make a payment on my prepaid account,
if I'm using it for the purpose of an inmate
that's in California which I have inmates
that are at or I have clients that are inmates
at LA County jails that are also CDCR inmates.
So for CDCR inmates, it's $0 to add money
to my prepaid con account.
If that is an inmate within CDCR
hasn't called me within the last month,
then they charged me the LA County fees.
And then like last night, for example, I went to add money.
It charged me $5 and 95 cents to put money on the account.
Yet when I scroll down to the bottom of their website
and I click on rates and fees and I put in my phone number
and I put in LA County jail, it says it's $3.
When I called Global Tel Link,
they can't seem to explain to me
why it says 5.95 that they've just charged me
whereas their website says $3.
So they can't even hold themselves accountable
for their own rates.
I definitely I've been told that they charge
fees and taxes, every call which is confusing to me
'cause if I have a cell phone I don't get charged
taxes every single phone call or text message I send,
I get charged taxes each month.
So I'm not sure how they can monopolize
off every single phone call.
I noticed another caller had mentioned something about like
the recordings and how those are disruptive interruptions.
I want to point out that Global Tel Link says that
they are offering, you know free 5-minute phone calls
each week or every other week to inmates.
However, those phone calls are actually three minutes
because two of the first minutes are the recording,
the prompts to lead you to the inmate
and then you have an additional about minute
and 15 seconds of recordings in that phone call.
They have had many cases brought against them,
class-action lawsuits on the East Coast
for scamming people out of money.
I can tell you personally that I have tried
to numerous times resolve issues with them.
They're impossible to work with.
So it's not even that this company, you know
is not really in the business of keeping inmates
and their loved ones connected
but they really don't resolve anything.
I can tell you also in the 10 years that
I have had accounts with them,
they always tell me when there's a problem
that they're going to make a ticket.
I've never once out of 50 tickets.
I've never once had a ticket resolved.
Also more recently, I've had to make a new account
and I have a prepaid phone account.
The recording that comes in is that
I need to set up a prepaid phone account.
And when I call them, they say, oh, you have one.
The inmate must be dialing something wrong.
There's no way that every single inmate
is dialing something wrong.
The reason why I've had to have multiple accounts
is because they will put my account on freeze
or hold if they have a processing payment.
So let's say I have, you know 20 clients for the week
and they all call in that's quite a few times
I have to reload my account.
Every time they receive funds from my institution
they should be putting the minutes on the phone.
More recently, I actually had to switch
to using Western Union because they wouldn't
take a card anymore and prior to using Western Union
I had called to make a payment through the phone operator
which is interesting because again
if I use my online web accounts
if use this for the CDCR inmates
if they were calling in, then it would be $0 I was charged
but now they suddenly can't take my card for no reason.
And they want to charge me 1495 to make a payment
through a live operator.
So again, they're monopolizing offers me
because there's no there's been no problems
with ever receiving payments from me.
And now I have to pay 1495 when the contract
that I've read it's 32 pages long says
that they only charged by 5.95 for live operations.
So I have to ask them every time to get a refund
of my other, like almost $10 and I never get that back.
And then they finally stopped allowing it to go through.
Also, it shouldn't go through a live operator
if it doesn't go through their app.
So you see that they kind of operate really,
not in accordance with fair business practices.
But when I go to Western Union
then I have to pay 695 for the Western Union.
Another way that they're monopolizing off of me.
And then more recently I made a payment
through Western Union, they received it,
it took them four days.
It usually takes them immediately.
They will get the funds and they will already
say that I have minutes on my account.
It took them four days to put money on my account
no explanation at all.
They can't seem to explain anything.
And as I stated, I have numerous recorded
phone calls that can attest to all of this.
I have to call frequently back to back
because the representative will hang up on me
if they don't know the answer to the question.
I've had to go out of my way and find out
who the executive director is and reach out
to that person as well as area representatives.
So I can submit all of those if I know
kind of a way to do that, as well as, you know
photographic evidence that shows that
really Global Tel Link ConnectNetwork,
they operate as numerous different,
numerous different names also they charge
third party transactions it says on their website,
which is also a sister company,
they're all the same thing.
They all operate under the same name and entity
at the end of the day but they just try
to label it differently so that they can
make up erroneous charges for people
which really ultimately victimizes not just
the inmates, but the families or professionals.
I know another colleague talked about, you know
phone calls with loved ones
as well as attorneys' phone calls.
I think the only other thing I'd like
to point out is for LA County,
and this is me just wrapping it up.
But for LA County, if you go to their website
and you click on the phone services,
it takes you to a ConnectNetwork website.
Half of the representatives say,
oh, that's not our website,
connectnetwork.net.com is not our website.
However, you can get to that same link
through ConnectNetworks websites
so it's not the GTL 'cause there's an
additional company that labels themselves
as GTL for cheaper phone phone calls, it's not them.
The website that is linked to LA County
Sheriff's department website is the same link
that's also connected to ConnectNetworks
GTL whatever else it's all the same companies.
Half the representatives will say for the company
that's not our website and the other half will,
but that also lays out what the appropriate fees are
that they are not charging.
They also cannot tell me whose tax rate they are using
they can't tell me whether they're using the
tax rate of Texas, which is the number
that shows up on our phone,
or if it's the tax rate for California.
My understanding is I'm in California.
I'm talking to an inmate in California.
I should be charged taxes for California
not somewhere else.
They really need to become transparent
if business operations are going to continue to
move forward, I've also suggested
because the phones are so poorly operated
that maybe they need to change inmates to,
you know fix the phone lines.
And that would not only build career building skills
for these inmates but would also assist with
the institutions and ConnectNetwork
with any additional fees, thank you.
Judge: Okay, thank you, Ms. Michaels.
That was a lot.
Sarah: Yeah.
Judge: We do have folks at the...
Thank you for that detail.
If you'd like to send an email
or to call our public advisor's office
after this hearing, sounds like you may have
some further information you might like to provide to us.
I'll give you that information again.
The Public Advisors phone line is 1 866 849 8390.
And you can also email our public advisor's office.
That's public.adviser@cpc.ca.gov.
It sounds like there's been some
really significant problems with
billing and online information and so on.
So, if you have the chance to reach out
to our public advisors coax, they can follow up
a little further and get this information from you.
Sarah: Sure, yeah, yeah I'll go ahead
and add this to a Google drive
'cause I think that the recordings are actually,
you know probably too big for email,
but I'll send them an email and let them know
how to reach the Google drive and then
they can just kind of sift through
everything that I have over the last 10 years.
Judge: Okay, thank you, appreciate that.
Commissioner: Ms. Michaels, did you also say
you worked with an organization?
Sarah: No, I'm an outpatient therapist.
Yeah, in Southern California.
So I don't work with an organization.
I have my own entity, but, and it just kind of falling
into the sector, I guess, by default
just because I started having more
and more clients that were trying to adjust
to kind of getting out of being incarcerated
or institutionalized, so to speak and,
or family members that had a loved one
incarcerated that was struggling
as a family with the adjustment.
And so I started out just kind of,
for the most part all of my inmates
or families that have inmates.
I do all of the therapy for them over those lines.
And I actually pay for the calls.
I don't bill insurance for them
because most of them, they don't have insurance.
I don't take any Caspian.
So I do this really on the, you know
honor system or or good merit system
that I just want to help people.
I do have pain clients as well,
but for these inmates and loved ones, you know
usually they are financially not in a place
where they can really afford much.
And so the therapy that I offer and to assist them
as a family continue to stay connected
or to learn how to manage their own emotions
or whatnot while they're incarcerated
or to help them prepare for adjustment
after being institutionalized.
I do that all free of charge
and I absorbed the cost which is why
it's so frustrating to deal with Global Tel Link.
Judge: All right, thank you, miss Michaels.
Lots of, lots of detail there.
Sarah: Yes, thank you.
Judge: Thank you for calling.
And I believe we have a couple more
callers in the queue at this point.
And we, I have asked the Verizon operator
to go ahead and and close the queue.
We'll just take these last two callers
and then we will wrap up the hearing.
So operator, if you could please
introduce our last callers.
Operator: Our next caller is number 5.
You may go ahead, your line is open.
Caller: Good afternoon, and again,
I'd like to thank the Commission
for providing us with an opportunity to participate.
I'd like to repeat what Ms. Diaz said
in regards to fees being taken for every single transaction
including commissary transactions.
I'd also like to repeat the comments
of a previous caller regarding the inability
for some inmates to participate in this meeting
as they're only allowed 15-minutes per call.
So please, please make them more manageable
for them to participate as well moving forward.
My son was arrested in June of 2019
and like many others on this call
has not been convicted to date
is still awaiting trial to either be released
or transferred to a prison facility.
As the mother of an imprisoned inmates,
it has been and continues to be difficult
to keep in touch with him.
I'm a breast cancer survivor with very limited income.
My husband is a disabled American vet
with health issues which I deal with daily.
In addition to the stress of having another son
currently serving, sorry
overseas at this time who's unable
to speak to his incarcerated brother because
he's unable to call outside of the United States.
Communication to me is a form of therapy
for those struggling on both ends.
And we as family members are overpaying
for communication that should be free.
I'd like to see the Commission add video visitations
as well as an ongoing feature available for use.
The inmates as well be given
the ability to call out of the country.
As many have stated, it's proven that inmates
who have regular communication with their friends
and family members have better morale,
better health, and better mindset
during their incarceration
in addition to being better able to adapt
to society once they're released.
These at the very least restrict and possibly
alleviate the financial burden on families and friends.
In closing, I'd just like to say next week
I'm forced to move due to financial burden
unforeseen including what is going on with my son.
And I'll also be asking for access to communication,
both in Mexico, as well as out in the country
for hours as well as other military
family members currently deployed, thank you.
Judge: Thank you, caller,
sorry to hear about your situation.
Caller: Thank you.
Judge: And operator, could we please
take the last caller.
Operator: The last caller is Mary Marino.
Your line is open, you may go ahead.
Mary: Yes, thank you so much.
Thank you so much for your patience.
I'll try to be brief.
I just wanted to say that I hope that
you guys really consider and hear all
and have heard all these stories and I hope that
they really move you to make some type of change.
I also wanted to say something that has not
been mentioned yet, which would probably solve a lot
of the issues that I've heard so far.
And that is the fact that not only do
incarcerated people have limited access to phones
but the time they are given is sometimes very restricted.
And you know, there's also the barrier
to making three-way calls.
For some reason, at least for GTL
it is prohibited to make a three-way call.
So let's say my husband only has five minutes
because sometimes they do have to compromise
among them and they don't even do the
whole 15-minute calls because they have so little time.
So they'll share their time.
And my husband sometimes only have five minutes
which means that I couldn't do a three-way call
for him to just say hi to his mother.
Or if there's somebody like the previous caller,
for example that has somebody oversee
that she would probably like you know,
to call and for her son to say hi to,
they can't do that because you know
you cannot do a three-way call.
As soon as you know they hear that click
or whatever it is the call gets completely disconnected.
I do not understand why because the call
is being monitored regardless.
So that is definitely something that I would
appreciate if you guys would care to look into
and thank you so much for being so patient.
-: Thank you and Ms. Marino
for calling in and raising those points.
And that does conclude our public comment period.
Again, thank you so much for everyone
that took the time to call in.
We had, I'm not sure how many callers we had but
we've exceeded our allotted three hours time
so quite a few.
We will definitely be carefully
considering the comments today.
We learned, I think quite a bit of new points
and perspectives that we weren't familiar with earlier.
So, thank you again.
The current schedule for this rulemaking has
the Commission adopting a decision later this summer,
an interim decision, and we will be continuing
to look into this matter in the coming year.
If anyone would also like to provide written comments,
to add to what you've said today, you can do so
by submitting comments to the docket card
for this proceeding thecpoc.ca.gov/R201002Comments,
and that's all together.
And if anyone on the line would like
some assistance to providing additional
email comments please contact the Commission's
public advisor's office public.advisoratcpac.ca.gov.
Again that's publi.advisor@cpac.ca.gov.
Commissioner, Guzman-Aceves
if you'd like to make some final comments before we close.
Commissioner: Well, I just...
I'm very deeply appreciative
of everyone's time and commitment to try to
improve the situation for incarcerated California.
And I'm just very grateful for everyone
sharing their difficult experiences
and for being creative and innovative
on the proposed solution, thank you.
-: Thank you, Commissioner.
And I've just received word that we did have
about 64 commenters today.
So we appreciate very much all of you
taking the time to call in.
We will be having a second public hearing
on this topic tomorrow, April 29th, starting at 06:30.
There is information on our Commission website
about that and maybe you've also
received notices about that.
So with that, this afternoon's public hearing
is concluded and we're adjourned, thank you.
Operator: And this concludes today's conference,
Thank you for-