(upbeat music)
Operator: Welcome to the public participation hearing,
where we will take public input
on rulemaking 20-10-002,
to consider regulating telecommunications services
used by incarcerated people,
on this day, Thursday, April 29th, 2021.
Today's call is being recorded,
if you have any objections, you may disconnect at this time.
Thank you, you may proceed.
-: Thank you operator.
We'll go ahead and be on the record
and the Commission will come to order.
Today is Thursday, April 29th
and this is the remote public participation hearing
for rulemaking 20-10-002
to consider regulating telecommunication services
used by incarcerated people.
This is a public hearing on a rulemaking
at the California Public Utilities Commission.
This is not a parole board hearing
or any other hearings relating to the jail population.
The sole purpose of this meeting
is to hear from incarcerated people
and the public regarding the prices
and quality of call-in services
available in California prisons and jails.
The Commission is considering regulating these prices.
My name is Kathleen Vogel
and I'm the assigned Administrative Law Judge
on this proceeding.
I'm joined by the assigned Commissioner,
Martha Gusmanaservice,
Commissioner Genevieve Jeroma
and Commissioner Darcy Houck.
Although we have a quorum of Commissioners present tonight,
the Commissioners will not be discussing,
deliberating, voting or taking action
on items before us in this proceeding
we're all here simply to listen to the public.
Please note that the audio and visual feed
of this public hearing is being recorded
and will be accessible on the CPC website.
If you do not wish to be recorded, please disconnect now.
Commissioner Gusmanservice
would you like to make any opening remarks?
-: Thank you, Judge Vogel
and I wanna mostly just thank the public
for taking the time today to share their experiences
and of course their recommendations to us on what to do
with the information that we're gathering.
Yesterday we heard from the public as well
and it was very powerful.
I think the level of specific recommendations
that were given to us were extremely helpful.
So I wanna thank all the staff
again for their work on getting to this place
in particular for the draft proposal
that staff has put out
and really invite the public to comment on that proposal
as well as any other recommendations that they may have.
So thank you very much for being here today.
Kathleen: Thank you, Commissioner.
Commissioner Jeroma would you like to make some remarks?
-: Oh yes, thank you.
Good evening to everyone.
I'm pleased to join Judge Vogel
and Commissioner Gusmanservice, Commissioner Houck
with this public participation hearing
and thank you to our court reporters.
We will hear from staff presentation shortly.
This is a groundbreaking proceeding
that can directly impact the lives of a more than 100,000
incarcerated Californians and their families.
I'm encouraged by the cooperation
of the calling service providers,
the work done by the SPC research
that our Commission staff has completed so far
which includes issuing the proposed interim solution.
While I could not attend this public participation hearing,
as Commissioner Gusmanservice indicated it was all attended,
with the valuable input from many callers
and very much appreciate the time everyone has taken.
And those who have a log-in called in today
thank you for your time this evening.
We look forward to hearing
all of the public comments this evening
and I can assure that our staff
and we Commissioners will consider all the comments shared
and for anyone who is not able to call in,
there is a comment feature online,
there is an online forum,,
hopefully for folks who can access
an online feature, a computer or laptop.
Thanks again for everyone
for taking the time out of your evening
to participate in speaking
and your a valuable input.
Thank you back to you, Judge.
Kathleen: Thank you, Commissioner
and now Commissioner Houck,
would you like to make some opening remarks?
-: Thank you Judge Vogel.
I just briefly wanted to say thank you
to Judge Vogel, Commissioner Gusmanservice,
for all their work on this proceeding
and I am honored to be here tonight to listen
and want to learn more about
the comments that were addressed yesterday.
I was also unable to make the PTH yesterday
but very much want to hear from the public and folks today
and look forward to being able to further
the very important proceedings.
So thank you very much.
-: Thank you, Commissioner Houck.
Robert, if you could please advance the slide
to the second slide.
As we've mentioned the Commission
is considering regulating the prices charged
to make calls from prisons and jails.
Prison phone service providers in California include
Global Tel Link Corporation,
Inmate Calling Solutions or IC Solutions,
Legacy Inmate Communications,
Network Communications International Corporation
or NCI Inmate Communications,
Pay Tel Communications and Securus Technologies.
If anyone listening today has a question about your bills,
the prices or service offered by any of these companies,
please go ahead and contact
the customer service representatives
for these companies directly at the following phone numbers,
which are also shown on the screen.
For Global Tel Link Corporation,
the customer service number is (877) 650-4249,
or (866) 516-0115.
For IC Solutions, the number is (800) 864-8957.
Excuse me, I think I read that wrong, (800) 464-8957.
For Legacy Inmate Communications,
the number is (888) 729-4326.
For NCIC Inmate Communication, the number is (800) 943-2189.
For Pay Tel Communications, the number is (800) 729-8355
and for Securus Technologies, the number is (800) 844-6591.
Before we open the public comment line,
I'll briefly provide some background
on the California Public Utilities Commission.
Alison Brown, from the Commission's public advisor's office,
will then speak briefly followed by a presentation
from our communications division staff person, Carlos Sulei.
The Public Utilities Commission is a state agency
that decides the prices companies may charge
to make phone calls from within prisons or jails.
The Commission is comprised of five Commissioners,
who are appointed by the Governor
and confirmed by the California State Senate.
As a judge in these proceeding,
I manage the day-to-day activities of the case.
The five Commissioners are the ones who will decide,
with a vote, on whether
and how the Commission will regulate
the prices of prison call service companies.
My role as a judge is to evaluate
the evidence in the proceeding
and to write a proposed decision based on that evidence.
This proposed decision
is considered by the five Commissioners,
who decide whether to adopt a decision I have written
or to adopt their own alternate decision.
The schedule for this proceeding currently
has the Commission voting on an interim decision
about prison phone call prices this summer.
Before we start I want to acknowledge
the severe hardships that COVID-19 has imposed,
particularly on persons incarcerated.
During this period we as the Commission have transitioned
to holding our public hearings online and by phone.
Public engagement remains very important to the Commission
and will be paying careful attention to the comments
and feedback provided today.
We have two court reporters online with us today
and they will be transcribing everything that is said.
A written transcript will be publicly available,
after the hearing on the Commission website.
Before we get started,
I'll remind speakers to speak slowly and clearly,
so that the recorders can capture everything that is said.
Speakers are not required to provide
your names or locations,
however if you do provide this information,
please first state your name
and then slowly spell your first
and last name as you start your remarks.
I'll now invite Alison Brown
of the Commissions public advisor's office
to make a few remarks.
Ms. Brown.
-: Thank you judge.
Hello everyone and welcome.
My name is Alison Brown
and I'm the public advisor for the CPC.
The Public Advisors Office assist and advisors the public,
with participation in Commission proceedings.
First, I wanna thank you all for your participation today.
As the judge and the Commissioner stated,
public participation and input are essential
to the Commission's decision making process.
This hearing is your opportunity to be heard,
to share your thoughts and experiences on this issue
with the Administrative Law Judge and the Commissioners.
If you have specific questions about the proceeding
or your service, please reach out to the provider websites
for more information.
Second, if you or anyone you know
is not able to make a comment today,
there're several other ways to become involved.
Those interested can provide
written comments on today's topic
to what we call our docket card for this proceeding.
If you would like to make comments there,
please go to www.cpc.ca.gov/R2010002Comments.
Individuals are not required to provide your name, location,
email or phone number to the vibrant and comments
but you may, if you wish to.
Comments can also be provided by an email,
USPS mail and the phone.
To date we have received over 115 written comments.
Also, if you listening to this hearing
and would like to watch the live stream
or watch an archive of the stream at a later time,
please go to www.adminmonitor.com/ca/cpc.
If you wish to find more information on becoming a party,
subscribing to this proceeding
to receive notifications of filings and rulings
or submitting comments as I mentioned,
please go to our website cpc.ca.gov
or email the public advisor's office.
That email address again, is public.advisor@cpc.ca.gov.
We look forward to your comments today.
Thank you again for joining us, Judge.
Kathleen: Thank you Alison.
We'll now hear from Carlos Sulei,
the Commission's Communication Division,
who will present some findings on this case so far.
Carlos: Good evening.
My name is Carlos Sulei.
I'm with the California Public Utilities Commission
and I work in the Communications Division.
So I understand that some of you
are unable to see the presentation, you're on the phone,
so please bear with me, I will try and speak slowly
and clearly also for the benefit of the interpreters
and the court reporters.
So this is the staff proposal for interim rates.
So for the purpose of the staff proposal,
Incarcerated Calling Services or ICS
are defined as any and all communication services
provided by telephone corporations
to incarcerated or detained minors
or adults held in California,
including but not limited to federal
and state correctional facilities
and immigration detention centers, city and county jails,
juvenile detention centers, holding centers and camps.
The services are provided
through approximately 350 facilities in California,
for individual contracts between service providers
and state, county and municipal facilities.
Calls are funded through collect calls,
prepaid calls, dip and prepaid debit cards
and also in some facilities through kiosks.
Next slide, please.
The FCC is currently addressing ICS rates
and has compiled an extensive record.
To get a better understanding of the issues
and the ICS markets in California,
staff sent out data requests
to over 800 service providers in California
and identified six providers
that offer Incarcerated Calling Services.
Staff also reached out and met with advocates
and stakeholders on how ICS actually works
in the facilities
and the impacts on the incarcerated,
their family and friends.
Next slide please.
Studies have shown that incarcerated individuals
in regular contact with family are more likely to succeed
after release and have lower recidivism rates.
In traditional rate making the end user pays the bills,
however for ICS, most of the costs
are paid by families or friends,
which adds to their financial burdens.
So some of the things that staff found
is that Incarcerated Calling Services
are provided to approximately 350 facilities in California,
through contracts with jurisdictions,
or individual facilities.
The current rates are not market-based
and terms and conditions are set forth in contracts
between service providers, facilities or jurisdictions.
The current rates are inconsistent throughout the state
and vary between jails and prisons.
Fees from non telecommunication services
add to the cost of the call
and revenues from calls support other programs.
Next slide, please.
Here's a survey with staff pound
based on the data requests that were sent out.
Intrastate per minute charges range from free
to 1.75 per minute.
First minute charges range from free to 3.60 per minute.
Ancillary charges,
single call rates are as high as three dollars,
automated payment charge are as high as three dollars,
third-party fees as high as 6.95,
live agent fees as high as 5.95,
paper bill fees as high as 2.95.
Next slide please.
So the staff proposal proposes immediate relief
by adopting the proposal of the FCC interim rates
and we try to keep the proposal very simple.
There's two rates,
there's a rate cap at 21 cents per minute for debit
and prepaid calls,
there is a rate cap at 25 cents per minute
for collect calls,
there's also a rate cap on the following fees,
there are no markups on single call fees,
automated payment fees
are a maximum of three dollars per use.
No markups on third-party financial transaction fees,
live agent fees are 5.95 per transaction
and paper bill fees are two dollars per statement.
So I just wanted to describe some of the other fees
that are currently being charged.
These fees are carrier access fees, account setup fees,
transfer fees, prepaid refund processing fees
and fees for bail refunds.
So these will no longer be allowed under the proposed rules.
Next slide, please.
That further proposes that prohibition on markets
for mandatory pass through government taxes and fees.
As I mentioned, the provision on all ancillary fees
not specified by the FCC
and this Interim Rate Structure will stay in place
until the Commission adopts
the proposed FCC's permanent rates
of 14 cents per minute for prisons
and 16 cents for jails
or a final decision in his rule making.
In closing, I'd like to mention that besides the work
at the federal level at the FCC is doing,
there's a lot of activity at the state
and local level for lowering rates.
There are some models that are being talked about
and these models include free phone calls
and also a method of charging per call
rather than per minute.
I also wanna recognize the work
of the San Francisco financial justice project.
So they were able to bring free phone calls
to San Francisco to the innovative program.
So we thank you for your participation.
Also, there was a copy of this,
before I go pardon me,
there's a copy of this staff proposal on the website
for those you can't access it.
Thank you.
Kathleen: Great, thank you, Carlos.
We will begin the public commentary very shortly.
Before we do that I just like to remind folks
that this is a public participation hearing
for the Commission to hear from members of the public.
Entities that are part of the formal proceeding rulemaking,
R2010002, should please not call in
to provide a comment at this time.
If you could please go ahead
and use the formal proceedings
to express your views.
Yesterday we actually allowed a party to speak
and we will not be having parties speak tonight.
So regarding the public comment period
if you're providing comments, again, please speak slowly
and clearly and directly into your phone.
Please do not use a speaker phone,
it makes it very hard to hear you
and hard for the court reporters to transcribe your comments
which we would like to go back
and study carefully after this hearing,
so please do speak slowly and directly into the phone.
Please keep your comments brief
and a chime will be sounding when your time is up.
Another reminder is that this is a public hearing
so callers must use language appropriate to the setting
and must speak to the topic of prices
and services offered by a prison phone call companies.
Callers that do not adhere to this guidance
may have your speaking time shortened.
And please also keep your ears
to your phone so that you can hear me
if I need to interrupt you and ask you to speak more slowly.
So please pay attention also to listening.
Operator, how many callers are in the queue at this point?
Operator: And right now we have five parties in queue.
Kathleen: Okay, super, thank you.
If anyone listening to the hearing right now
would like to make a comment as we go forward
please do press star one and unmute your line,
the operator will respond shortly
and get you in line to make a statement.
And we will be starting with two minutes for each speaker,
if the number of speakers increases
we may need to adjust that
but for now we'll start with two minutes per speaker.
So operator, if you could please announce the first caller
and again, a reminder to please speak slowly
and please if you're going to provide your name,
which is not required, please do state your name
and then slowly spell it as you get started, operator.
Operator: Our first Caller is Troy Deck.
Troy, you may go ahead.
Troy: Hello, thank you for holding this hearing.
As members of the Commission
you all have a unique opportunity to make a huge difference
in the lives of tens of thousands of people.
Many inmates in California come from low income communities
and make less than minimum wage in prison.
Reducing the burden of these high call rates
is the prudent thing to do,
making it easier for inmates to build relationships
that will allow them to reintegrate into free society
is also the moral and just thing to do.
Inmates should not be forced to pay
more than the general public for human connection.
I would also encourage the Commission
to just look into the definition of telephone corporations
and see if there's any wiggle room for companies
to get around that if they'd like to avoid these rate caps.
Thank you.
Kathleen: Thank you, Mr. Deck, I believe it is.
Is it Troy Deck, D U C K?
Troy: D E C K.
Kathleen: D E C K, okay, thank you, Mr. Deck.
And operator, if you could please announce the next caller.
Operator: Our next caller is caller number one.
So you may go ahead.
Man 1: Yes, I'm currently calling
from George Bailey Detention Facility
in South San Diego County, the local County jail
and it's my first time ever being incarcerated
and I've been here for almost two years,
it'll be two years in May.
I got kind of trapped in the COVID-19 lockdown
and I really appreciate Judge Vogel
and the Commissioner is taking the time
to look into this issue from people who are on the outside,
people who have never been incarcerated
or won't be incarcerated.
It's a really, really acute problem,
being able to have contact with your family members.
Just as a point of reference,
I pay 21 cents per minute to call someone
outside of the State of California
and I pay 33 cents a minute for every single phone call
I make inside the State of California.
What that means is my dad single-handedly has paid
over 7,000 dollars in the past two years
for our phone conversations
and what that gives us is it gives
us about 30 minutes a day, give or take.
Sometimes we talk a little bit less
and sometimes we talk a little bit more
but 30 minutes a day is a lifeline
not just to have connection with someone who is connected
to you outside of your charges,
which is a very, very unique person relationship to have
but to have a point of reference to the outside world.
I know people on the outside
don't really have a great idea
of the level of disenfranchisement
that people on the inside are having to deal with
but just imagine being put in a bit of a vacuum
where you have no real outside information,
you're not able to send something out,
at least not in a efficient way,
you're not able to look something up on your own.
So my dad acts
not just kind of as my mental health counselor
but also as a point of reference
as to what's going on in the outside,
things that are happening with my children
and things that are happening with my family.
So I really do appreciate the time that the Commissioner
is taking just to try and advocate.
in Nelson Mandela's book, "Long Walk to Freedom,"
he spent 27 years on Robben Island
and he calls communication with family and human rights
and he was speaking specifically about the ability
that the state was putting on his, not being able
to have access to visitation
and I do believe it's exactly the same
in terms of having an ability to have phone calls.
The idea that people
are not just in some of the most stressful situations
that they've ever been in
but then on top of that, their families
are right alongside them,
they're going through very similar
but very difficult situations
with the level of being incarcerated
and that the communication is really limited.
I'm totally blessed and lucky that I have a family
that can afford to pay thousands of dollars
for me to make phone calls
but I am an extreme, extreme minority.
(bell ringing)
Kathleen: Thank you caller.
Sorry about that loud bell.
We had been having trouble hearing the bell yesterday,
so we may adjust the volume downward a little bit.
So apologies if that kind of startled you
but we do appreciate your call very much
and we're very glad
that you were able to join us this evening.
So thank you so much for sharing your thoughts with us.
Okay, operator, could we take the next caller please?
Operator: Next caller is Amy Bernoski,
you may go ahead.
Amy: Hello, this is Amy Bernoski
and I would love to thank Mrs. Brown,
the public works Commission,
Judge Vogel, the Administrative Law Judge
and all the staff and everyone who is working
to get us to this point
where we are talking about prisoners rights
efficiently today, about their right to communication.
Thank you for the testimony
from the gentleman from George Bailey.
I am a sister from Las Colinas
who just got out Monday morning at 9:04 AM
and everything that he spoke of the pressure cooker
and the rate, those were things
that I had wanted to talk to you about.
I'm lucky to be talking about it from the outside.
I'd love to talk to him and see how he's doing
but that's beside the point.
Thank you for everything that you've done
to bring it to this point.
I think from your testimonies yesterday
and what you've heard today so far,
you can certainly see that there's human atrocities
occurring with prisoners not being allowed
to actually speak with
and communicate with their families and their loved ones
and that the caps should be zero, quite frankly
and that those telecommunication companies
that don't wanna get on board with that
and don't wanna pay repercussions,
I don't know what happens to you,
maybe you get consolidated by the ones who do
because that's the way it should be
and I know that there's good business people
out there who believe in that
and that fundamental right to communicate
our first amendment, right to speech.
That is our first amendment right, a right to speech,
that is taken away from us when we are incarcerated,
our right to speech, our right to pen, right to pencil,
right to ability to communicate.
On so many levels it would boggle your mind,
you can't understand it unless you've seen it
and I've seen it
and I'm here to testify for all my sisters
and brothers who are still incarcerated right now
and that's who I stand for.
And again, my name is Amy Bernoski
and I live in LA Jolla, California
and I'm a five times felon
with a Criminal Justice and Criminology Degree
from the University of Texas at Arlington.
Kathleen: Thank you so much Ms. Bernoski.
If you are still on the line,
if you wouldn't mind spelling your last name for us
so we can be sure to get that right.
Amy: Absolutely, my name is Amy, A M Y,
middle name is Lynn, L Y N N,
the spelling on my last name is Bernoski,
B as in boy E R N O S K I.
I'd also like to add that I'm a female disabled veteran
who has PTSD and acute anxiety,
just so everybody knows when this disabled veteran,
when they're meeting this disabled veteran
and I look forward to meeting everyone on the committee
and everyone who's doing the work
and Judge Vogel to get us to the point that we are now.
I can't wait for the moment when all the prisoners
on the other side get to go pick up the phone
and call their loved ones
and reconnect with their community.
I really look forward to it
and I'd be happy to stay on the line and speak
and answer any questions that you might have,
I'm here on the line.
Thank you very much for your time and your work.
Thank you so much.
(Amy laughing)
Thank you.
Kathleen: Thank you, thank you for calling in
and congratulations on your release.
Amy: Thank you.
It was a wicked web.
(Amy laughing)
I'll try not to comment from here on out.
(Amy laughing)
Kathleen: Okay, operator,
I think we're ready for the next caller, thank you.
Operator: And our next caller is Andreye.
Andreye: Thank you.
Again, Commission, my name is Andreye, A N D R E Y E
and I'm calling from Los Angeles, California.
I'm calling in my own capacity
as a formerly incarcerated person,
as well as directly impacted
through several currently incarcerated loved ones
and husband as well as in my organizational capacity,
San Bernardino Freedom All.
Again, I'd like to thank the Commissioner.
Kathleen: Andreye, sorry to interrupt,
if you wouldn't mind slowing down
for our court reporters to be able to record you,
appreciate it.
Andreye: Sure, sorry about that, thank you.
Again, I'd like to thank the Commission
for holding this meeting
although I really would like the Commission
to understand the barriers that are in place
for incarcerated people to call into be part
of this hearing yesterday and today's.
I'd like to highlight what happened
to one of our members who was actively seeking
and using the grievance process to try to be here yesterday
and today.
One of our members had used the grievance process
to ask for permission of the facility
to attend both hearings yesterday and today,
which is what an incarcerated person should do
if they wanted to be here
and attend a full entire hearing,
they would have to have first permission.
So he did do that and the instructions to him,
the response was to connect with the Commission
with the public advisor's office,
which was false information
and so he used the grievance process
again to grieve and stop response.
This is no secret, this is on recorded phone calls
that he was doing this, he was trying to get here
when we find that it was absolutely no mistake
that he was matched about midnight today
or early this morning,
moved to another facility in another county.
All of his property was removed from him,
which means he has no commissary,
no hygiene, no pencil, no paper, no envelopes
where he cannot even submit his comment or be here today.
His lawyer has no idea what had even happened.
I really want the Commission to understand
that these kinds of things do happen to people
who are organizing on the inside
and trying to voice and use the right that we still do have
and it's very important that this Commission
how to include them in the future process.
So their voice can be heard.
Thank you.
Kathleen: Thank you, Andreye
and I'm sorry to hear that about your friend and colleague.
I just wanted to mention that
if he was able to get access eventually to paper and pen
we do have the option
for folks to write in via regular mail
and there may be some other options for you
or a family member of his to post a comment
from him onto our public comment website,
which was, if you can see the screen,
the website is listed below,
I'll also say it again,
it's www.cpc.ca.gov/R2010002Comments.
So we're sorry your friend is not able to join us
this evening or yesterday
and we do encourage you to assist him
because you can to make his voice heard
through some of these other means.
Andreye: Thank you.
May I receive a confirmation
if a person can submit a comment by mail
as long as it is post-dated before
or on May first, is that efficient?
Kathleen: Yes and thank you for asking that.
There is no time limit on providing
a written comment by regular mail.
Initially, there was a notification that went public
that said that May 1st was the deadline
and that is not a deadline.
So for the rest of the year anyone
may write a regular letter to us
and we will receive it and consider it.
We will be able to take our first interim decision
in this case.
The Commissioners will be considering
that around August of this year.
So in the next couple of months is the best time to write
but we will be accepting comments by regular mail
for as long as this proceeding is open.
Andreye: Thank you so much for clarifying.
Kathleen: Thank you, thank you for calling in,
appreciate it.
And operator, if you could please call the next caller
and again, a reminder to callers to please speak slowly
and if you are gonna provide your name,
which is not required, please do state it
and then spell it slowly as you begin, operator.
Operator: And our next caller is Ambrose Brooks,
you may go ahead.
Ambrose: Hi, my name is Ambrose Brooks.
I am calling in my individual capacity
as a law school graduate
and I'm also working with San Bernardino Freedom All.
I want to thank the committee for considering this
however, make it clear that it's quite sad
that it took a pandemic for movement on prisoners rights
related to their right to communication.
California incarcerates more than any other state
in the country,
the highest rate of incarceration in the world
and so I'm of the belief that this Commission
and judges in this state should take it upon them to try
to reduce the mass incarceration
that really has overcome California.
And one way that would help
and recidivism would be to encourage
and build community ties
between individuals who are incarcerated
and their communities, families and loved ones.
In fact, what's happening now
and as was made more apparent during COVID-19
is that prisoners are often cut off
and isolated from their communities.
If we want to set up a system that supports the well-being
and a re-entry pathway for incarcerated individuals,
this Commission must act now
and really make phone calls free for individuals
incarcerated in prisons, jails,
both federal and state, ice centers,
juvenile facilities, holding centers,
that's over 350 facilities
and hundreds of thousands of individuals incarcerated.
So please, do the right thing, thanks.
Kathleen: Thank you so much, Ms. Brooks
and I believe your name is spelled B R O O K S.
Ambrose: Yes.
Kathleen: Okay, thanks for calling,
appreciate your comments.
Ambrose: Thank you.
Kathleen: And operator let's take the next caller
and are there any callers using the Spanish line
at this time?
If so, please go ahead
and call someone from the Spanish line next, please.
Operator: And we have no callers in the Spanish line
at this time.
Our next caller on the East line, Deidra.
Deidra: Hello.
Operator: Your line is open, you may go ahead.
Deidra: Hello, my name is Deidra, D E I D R A.
I would like to thank the courts for hosting this meeting.
I am a criminal justice major
so I know the importance of inmates
not going out into the community
and not committing any further crimes
or inflicting harm amongst citizens
and it is imperative that these phone companies
make adjustments to these high prison calls and jail calls.
I have a loved one that's currently incarcerated
and I've spent so much money on jail calls
that it's not even funny
and the reason why is because when my friend comes out
I wanna make sure that he doesn't go out into the community
and does any further harm.
And I feel that by me being there,
being educated minority,
I will be able to help him
be rehabilitated
because if CDR systems they just don't rehabilitate people
as they should and by not having phone time,
especially in the jail system and the prison system
once they're transferred from county to prison,
it's just cruel and inhumane.
And we're tough on crime in the state of California,
our mass incarceration rates are high
and by taking away this human rights with these phone calls,
is just another burden, not only on the inmates
but as well as their families and friends
and loved ones like myself.
So with that being said,
they really need to make these calls through.
It's just the right thing to do.
They profit just by housing inmates yearly and it's costly
and in order for us to make change,
we have to be the change that we wanna see,
we have to make better decisions
and it's important that we start with this step here,
that's one way that we can make a difference
to our incarcerated individuals.
Kathleen: Thank you so much Deidra for calling
I appreciate you sharing that perspective.
We heard something very similar
but not quite the same way
from some of the callers yesterday
about the role of friends and family
helping to rehabilitate prisoners
and remain a lifeline to the outside world.
So appreciate you sharing your thoughts.
Deidra: Thank you.
Kathleen: Operator, if we could take the next caller
and again, a reminder for callers, two reminders,
if you're listening to this live stream or on the phone
and you have decided you'd like to make a comment
at this time, you can enter into the queue at any time
by just pressing star one and unmuting your phone
and the operator will answer shortly
and get you in the queue
and for our next speakers, again, a reminder, please,
you're not required to provide your name,
if you do provide your name, please state your name
and then spell it slowly as you get started
and please speak slowly for our court reporters.
Thank you very much,
Operator, if we could please take our next caller.
Operator: Our next caller is Catharine Grainge.
You may go ahead.
Catharine: Hi, good evening.
My name is Catharine Grainge.
That's C A T H A R I N E,
last name is G R A I N G E.
Thank you so much for taking my call
and for holding this hearing.
Also the things that have been said so far today
have been outstanding and so encouraging to hear.
I am calling because my boyfriend is currently incarcerated
in San Joaquin County Jail.
He has been incarcerated for the past 13 years.
He was convicted of something that he did
when he was 17 years old
and given juvenile life without parole.
So he's currently back in the county jail
going through hearings.
When he is in the county jail
I have found that I ended up spending
two to three times the amount I spend on my rent,
my monthly rent, every month, just to talk to him
and we try to keep ourselves to one
or two phone calls a day,
so that's six or 12 dollars a day
and then I've of course also have to put money
or decide to put money on his commissary
and all of that ends up on equaling
about two to three times my monthly rent.
That's really hard on me
but I know that as a lawyer, myself,
I am in a much better position to pay those amounts
than most people who find their loved ones in jail.
So I do want to recognize that.
I won't say too much more,
I just also one thing I haven't heard highlighted
directly yet is what does it say about a justice system
that allows other organizations
or other businesses to profit off of incarcerating people?
I think it's per se a conflict.
I think it creates harm
because different entities are then given a money incentive
to support mass incarceration
and look what we have, mass incarceration,
especially in the State of California.
Thank you so much for hearing my comment tonight.
Thank you, Ms. Grange, appreciate your calling in.
Operator, could we call our next caller, please.
Operator: And our next caller is Sarah Esparza.
You may go ahead.
Sarah: Hi, thank you, I appreciate it
and I just wanted to thank everybody for bringing
this serious issue board for us
because it's so important to the families.
Somebody who's incarcerated I feel, which is hard
but the thing I just wanted to say is that
I'm pregnant and disabled
and I still am looking at to say that I'm privileged enough
to be able to afford some phone calls with him
and that's on a very fixed income,
on top of that if, it's a little off subject
but my father is a vet
and he's incarcerated and there's just
no way to handle somebody who has PTSD being a vet
and then walk them away, isolate them
and since that's sort of rehabilitating
them with no contact with their families
and their families are struggling
and vulnerable to trying to help keep in contact with them
as well as the fact that there's so many prisoners
and people in jail in California with very minimal time
to even use the phones when they do have families
and loved ones to help them make these calls.
I just think that
(inaudible)
that's definitely something possible
and I appreciate all your guys who have talked,
that's all I have to say.
Kathleen: Thank you so much Mrs.Esparza.
If you're still on the line,
if you wouldn't mind spelling your last name for us.
Sarah: E S P A R Z A,
the last name Sarah, S A R A H.
I'm sorry, I'm just really upset because it's really hard.
Kathleen: I understand.
It's very hard and so it's hard to remember
to say one's name as we get going on these things.
So no worries about that and I appreciate.
Sarah: And I thank you guys very much
and have a wonderful night.
Kathleen: Thank you so much,
thank you for calling.
Operator, if we could please take our next caller
and a reminder for callers,
you do not need to provide your name
but if you do provide your name,
please state your name
and spell it as you get started, operator.
Operator: And our next caller is Reynaldo Castillo,
you may go ahead
Reynaldo: Hello.
Kathleen: Reynaldo, we can hear you.
Reynaldo: All right, I'm calling for Reynaldo Castillo
and I thank you for this Commission
but I'm also calling for Vincent Bell,
who is on the line too,
who is also a recipient of that free call right now
and he wants to speak.
go ahead, Vincent.
Vincent: My name is Vincent Bell,
V I N C E N T, B E L L.
I'm currently incarcerated in San Francisco County Jail,
where we do get free phone calls.
Due to the free phone calls I've been able to
invent a car alarm
in order to stop crime and car break-ins
and I'm currently getting it patented.
I'm able to reach out to my son daily,
he's in high school and we do homework together,
I'm able to call his counselors,
I was able to even the call here
which I've been on waiting for like 30 minutes
but if I had to pay for this I wouldn't be able
to speak now.
When they were charging phone calls here,
Global Tel Link was stealing from us two cents extra
on every call and when I grieved it
because the sheriff was getting kickbacks on it,
the sheriff basically blocked my grievance
and told me I would have to sue in to get my change back,
in order to get the money they stole it back.
I've been incarcerated for the last nine years,
locked in ad SEG, which is 24 hours a day locked in
except I get three hours a week of walk time and a shower
and the only thing I have to reach my family is this phone.
And due to the free phone calls,
I was able to not only think about
how am I gonna pay to talk to my family
but I was also able to think of how can I help my community
as far as London Breed our mayor,
being able to get us free phone calls and lower commissary
so I don't have to worry so much about how am I gonna eat
and how often will I be able to talk to my family?
We spent in the last nine years, I believe 46,000 dollars
on phone calls
and they stole, like I said, two cents a minute,
two cents a phone call, which adds up
and I was just lucky to be able to call today
and I appreciate everybody that's out there fighting
for us to get these free phone calls.
I think that if they have texts
now where you can get an email
and have a free phone call,
I don't see why every inmate in California
shouldn't have free phone calls
or at least at a reduced rate
to where we can actually afford it
(bell ringing) and think about other things
except trying to make phone calls, paying for phone calls.
I thank you Commission
and everybody that participated in this.
Reynaldo: And I'm his uncle.
I am a former incarcerated inmate.
I did spend a whole lot of money on those things too
but we're able to communicate with each other
and create this car alarm system.
I hope that it's gonna help San Francisco
and fight that crime.
I just wanna thank the Commission,
thank you very much.
Hello?
Kathleen: Excuse me.
Thank you, Mr. Bell and thank you, Mr. Castillo,
appreciate your calling in very much.
And Mr. Castillo, could you, if you wouldn't mind,
if you're still on the lines,
could you spell your name for us please?
Reynaldo: Yes, it's R E Y N A L D O,
last name is C A S T I L L O.
Kathleen: Great, thank you very much
and Commissioners, do you have any questions?
Any of you?
Okay, great.
Thank you so much for calling in, appreciate it.
Reynaldo: No problem, thank you
thank you for listening.
Kathleen: You're welcome.
Operator, if you could please call the next caller
and for the next caller, again, reminder to folks,
if you could, please, if you're going to provide your name,
which is not required, if you could please state it
and then spell it as you're getting started
and if you are listening and you have decided
you'd like to make a comment at this time
please go ahead and press star one
and the operator will answer your call
and you can get in the queue and operator.
Operator: Our next caller is Melissa Marino,
you may go ahead.
Melissa: Hi, my name is Melissa Moreno.
I'm calling from San Diego, California.
I wanna thank you guys for holding this meeting.
I'm calling on behalf of, I have a husband
who is currently incarcerated.
As you guys may know this pandemic has caused
a lot of burdens on everyone.
Inmates down here in San Diego are locked down
23 hours a day, every single day.
They are out for maybe 30 minutes to an hour
and the cost of these phone calls are extremely high.
Sometimes, unfortunately in my husband's case,
he has to decide rather who he's going to be calling
just because their cost is so high.
We do spend on average about 400 or 500 dollars every month.
I am a single parent currently expecting
and I am his only source
of communication out here to the outside world.
I'm keeping him sane in there as visits
are not allowed down here yet
and they are not able to communicate with other inmates,
day room, time has been canceled,
all of that is going on.
So these phone calls that we get a day
they do cost us on average about 10 to 12 dollars daily
for 30 minutes, it adds up.
Definitely it's money
that we could be using for other things
but as these inmates they are incarcerated
almost 24 hours a day,
they need that connection to the outside world
to be able to speak to their family and their children
and to be able to keep that positive relationship going on.
So with that being said, I just wanted to say
thank you guys for holding this meeting
and hopefully we can do something
about the cost of inmate calls,
rather it's free phone calls
or even if it's at a reduced rate at this point,
anything is helpful.
Thank you.
Kathleen: Thank you so much Mrs. Moreno
for your comments,
for time to call in.
Melissa: Thank you.
Kathleen: Operator, if we could hear
from the next caller, please
Operator: Our next caller is Richard Clark
so you may go ahead.
-: Yes, good evening Commissioners,
good evening, Judge Vogel.
My name is Richard Clark that's spelled R I C H A R D,
last name Clark, C L A R K.
I'm formerly the director of the consumer protection
and safety division for 11 years
under the nose of Administrative Law Judge,
the last three years of my time with the Commission.
I became interested in this issue of pre phone calls
when I served on the the board of the Marin County,
ACLU Chapter.
Making my comments here this evening
in my personal capacity
not in any way associated with the ACLU.
The isolation
and lack of connection is devastating,
so we've heard many of the college here tonight
that everyone on both sides
this broken communications mechanism.
The fact that people are being charged anything
in order to connect with family
and loved ones is just heartbreaking,
that's the best term that I can come up with
having talked with numerous people
about this in the Marine County Jail,
where I'm part of an effort.
A bit stalled at this point, thanks to COVID
but part of an effort to get the sheriff
to allow free phone calls as they do in San Francisco
and other places around the nation.
The inability, the difficulty,
the sheer difficulty for people
to be able to make a telephone call,
let alone be able to afford a telephone call
is so incredibly important for the Commissioners
and for the judge in this matter to understand.
I would encourage you to perhaps go and visit a jail,
if you can, to see how it actually works,
do a hands-on experiment
what it's like to have to wait around
for somebody to call you
and then have to pay exorbitant fees for somebody
when they are able to finally getting in touch with you
'cause you happen to be (bell ringing)
not able to work
and be out there earning money to pay the exorbitant fees
that are being charged to these unfortunate people.
Again, I would encourage free phone calls,
support anything that cuts
charges being both for phone calls and for commissary
but I understand the Commission doesn't have
any jurisdiction on commissary.
These costs are crippling to people
who are just trying to make it through and get back out
and have good life.
Thank you so much Commissioners,
thank you so much, Judge Vogel
and all the other people
for taking a look at this issue to the staff
and thank you so much more
even to the incarcerated individuals
who've been incarcerated, standing up, speaking out.
This is a very critical issue.
Kathleen: Thank you, Mr. Clark.
Operator, could you call our next caller please?
Operator: Our next caller is Terressa Johnson,
you may go ahead.
Terressa: Hello.
Kathleen: Hello Ms. Johnson, we can hear you.
Terressa: Okay, thank you.
Hi, my name is Theresa Johnson.
It's spelled T E R R E S S A,
last name Johnson, J O H N S O N.
My sister is Kamiqua Johnson.
She's currently at CCWF
and it's like a four hour drive for our family.
She has a 13 year old daughter
and the days that we're not able to visit
the phone calls are very important
for her to try to keep a relationship with our family,
not only her 13 year only child, with her daughter
and when the rates are so high
and we're trying to put money on our phone for her.
At the beginning of this nine years ago
we were raising money to try to make sure
that we had calls for my niece to talk to her,
to keep a relationship with her mom.
And if you guys can do whatever you can
I thank you for the time and the opportunity
to keep those rates low doesn't mean a lot to us,
even as using the Jpay,
buying the stamps can be a little bit expensive
'cause we had to buy them for ourself for communication,
then we had to buy them for her to reply
and due to the COVID maybe even worse,
where we couldn't visit our loved one
even though it's a four hour drive to and from for us,
like an eight hour day in the car just to visit her.
Not having those phone calls
and just limited free calls
and they don't have their freedom,
she's not working, she's not on the yard
and having yard time.
Plenty of time she fell into a depression
and without able to communicate with us in that 15 minutes
to try to lift her spirits is very hard
on any family that has a loved one in prison.
So whatever you guys can do to keep the rates low,
I understand it's not a business,
if it's not gonna be free, please try to keep them low,
so we continue communication with our loved one
while they're in prison.
It's very hard and it's very hardship for everybody,
especially during this time during the COVID.
Thank you.
Kathleen: Thank you so much Ms. Johnson,
I appreciate you taking the time to call this this evening.
Terressa: Thank you.
Kathleen: Operator,
if you could please call our next caller, please.
Operator: Our next caller is Nevaeh Lemons,
you may go ahead.
Nevaeh: Hi, yes, my name is Nevaeh Lemons,
it's spelt N E V A E H, L E M O N S.
Kathleen: Miss Lemons, sorry to interrupt you,
we can't hear you very well,
could you try speaking into your phone
a little more directly?
And if you're on a speakerphone,
please, please go ahead and use a regular phone.
Nevaeh: It' might be a little muffled, I'm sorry.
Kathleen: There, that was much better, there you go.
Nevaeh: Okay, thank you.
Hi, yes, I am 13 years old.
My mother is Kamiqua Johnson.
My relations is Teressa Johnson is auntie
who you just finished speaking to.
Most importantly, why I got on this call today,
is because my mother is a great
and powerful person that I love to keep a relationship to
and as my auntie said,
that we live about a four way drive from CCWS
and it's very difficult 'cause COVID, cannot see her
and my mother is like a world to me
and it hurts me every day not talking to my mother
when I can talk to her once a week.
It does hurt everybody.
I don't know if everybody feels the same way
but when you have a loved one
and you want to keep good contact with them, it's very hard
'cause you can't see them as much as you want to
and you can not make plans,
you can't talk to them as much
the best thing to do is have a conversation with them,
even if it's a 15 minute, 30 minute, 20 minute,
five minute conversation
and the prices should not go up
because not everybody could pay that.
There's no reason why somebody has to pay something
way higher when you only talk to them for a limited time
and they cut you off.
You can barely say how your day is.
It hurts everybody, it hurts me even more
because I will be 14 next month,
haven't had my mother in four years
and she was falsely incarcerated.
She was taken away from me since I was four years old
on my own for four years, so that's almost 10 years
and me talking to her consistently,
seeing her consistently, talking to her,
now when they wanna change rates
and I know I can barely talk to her
'cause, if the rates change
and it's terrible for a 14 year old
can barely go a day without her mother
and talk to her mother, father is passed away
'cause of all the situations.
I just want my mother to talk to me
'cause I know it's the best
that she could lift their spirits to.
She barely calls anybody else when she has a chance
but one person who likes to call is me
and that brings my day, that brings joy to me
to something that has raised higher quote
and break for a particular reason,
that probably has no reason
that should be brought to this day
that's why we're on this conference.
I believe that if we pulled up
there should not be anything else,
we should keep it the same
but if that's not my power to be choice,
then at least you've taken the time
and listen to all our comments.
I just wanna talk to mother
and I just wanna to speak to her as much as I can
and as much as I want to
at the time that I can actually talk to her
then make her day.
(bell ringing)
Kathleen: Thank you so much.
Did you say your name was Rameni, was that right?
Nevaeh: No, Nevaeh.
Kathleen: Oh, could you spell your name for us please?
I couldn't hear it.
Nevaeh: N E V A E H.
Kathleen: Okay, super, thank you Nevaeh,
I appreciate that and sorry to hear about this.
Woman: Judge Vogel,
I just wanted to reiterate the appreciation
for you Nevaeh, thank you so much for sharing.
Nevaeh: You're welcome.
Kathleen: Okay, thank you.
Just a reminder for anyone listening.
If you'd like to call in and make a comment,
please do just press star one and unmute your phone,
the operator will answer you shortly
and get you in the queue.
We'll go ahead and take the next caller
and again, a reminder to callers to please speak slowly
so that our court reporters can transcribe
what you're saying and we can go back to it later
and make sure we haven't missed anything.
So please do speak slowly
and that you are not required to provide your name
but if you do want to provide it.
if you could please state your name
and then spell it slowly as you begin,
we'd really appreciate it, operator.
Operator: Our next caller is Dharshan Chandramohan,
you may go ahead.
Dharshan: Hi, my name is Dharshan Chandramohan,
that's D H A R S H A N,
last name C H A N D R A M O H A N.
I'm commenting on behalf of myself
as a concerned resident of the State of California
and as a medical student
and member of the COVID-19 Relief Action Committee
in the inland empire.
Our committee feels that capping charges
and fees for prison phone calls is the bare minimum
that can be done to alleviate a unique
and cruel harm of the pandemic
to incarcerated individuals and their families.
Access to reliable, affordable and consistent communication
with family is critical in this pandemic
for both the mental and physical health
of incarcerated individuals and their families.
More over the burden of not having access
to telecommunications during the pandemic
has damaging impacts on public health.
The incarcerated population was hit hard by COVID-19
early in the pandemic when the disease
spread rapidly through, hello.
Kathleen: Dharshan, hello, yes, sorry to interrupt.
Often when people are reading a written statement
we kind of see speed up without realizing it.
If you wouldn't mind just slowing down a little bit,
we'd appreciate it.
Dharshan: Sure, so the burden of not having access
to telecommunications during the pandemic
has damaging impacts on public health.
The incarcerated population was hit hard
by COVID-19 early in the pandemic
when the disease spread rampantly
through California detention facilities.
Additionally, the racial
and ethnic populations have suffered
and died the most under the pandemic
have also disproportionately high rates of incarceration.
We want to reiterate as other commenters have expressed
that the exorbitant cost of prison phone calls is racism.
When so many people, even outside of prison,
have been traumatized by the limited communication
between loved ones, imposed by pandemic lock downs,
the injustice and cruelty of the high cost
of prison phone calls is multiplied.
As many have shared, phone calls are crucial
in providing support for family members
dealing with illness.
Denying that lifeline during a pandemic
will have far reaching consequences,
especially in a pandemic where concern, anxiety, paranoia
and misinformation about the virus
and vaccines abound.
Reliable access to communication with trusted individuals,
family and physicians
is critical to combat vaccine hesitancy.
We're aware that vaccination
is being carried out in California prisons
and incarcerated individuals sharing their experiences
with the vaccine with family members
can help California as a whole reach herd immunity.
The COVID-9 pandemic has made information
and communication a critical resource
to bar incarcerated individuals from that resource
is cruel and traumatic
and in like these extreme circumstances
we would advocate that calls should be free.
However, the proposal of the Commission
is a minimal first step to ameliorating
the disproportionate harm faced by incarcerated people
and their families in this pandemic.
Thank you so much for your time.
Kathleen: Thank you Mr. Chandramohan, I appreciate it
and apologies for interrupting you
and thanks for taking the time to call in for us today
and operator, if you'd like to call our next caller, please.
Operator: And our next caller is caller number one,
you may go ahead, your line is open.
Man 2: Can you hear you guys?
Kathleen: Yes, we can.
Man 2: Thank you so much.
So I was wanting to just make sure
that there was an understanding
as to how when you're incarcerated, where phone calls are
and I know it's tough for people on the outside
to understand the level of isolation on the inside
but I am one of maybe two people out of 136 in my module
that regularly make phone calls.
Just yesterday, my bunky his sister's husband died
and he heard about it
and he hasn't made a phone call to anyone on the outside
because he can't afford it for the last six months
and so I let him use my phone time
and the one 30 minute phone call costs 12 dollars.
And I know that people can hypothetically imagine
what the isolation's like on the inside
but I would just really ask
and I'm trying to put words together to encourage people
that are on this call because when you're inside
you believe everybody in the world hates you.
You think you're not just the scum of the earth
but you believe everybody's abandoned you
and everyone's rejected you.
And you're just listening to the comments
and the feedback from all the different people
who've called in
and not just their support for this proposition
but for the idea that inmates are valuable,
for the idea that they still have humanity,
you have no idea to an incarcerated person
what that actually means, you do not only forget that
but you live in the absence of that day in and day out
and that connection to someone on the outside who sees you
as more than just the charges on your case file
it's beyond life-giving, it's the hope that you have
and I do think it's sad that it is a money issue
but I know that's kind of the world we live in.
In San Diego, in California, they just asked
the County Board of supervisors a little law
and we found out in an investigation
that Securus is paying a minimum of 2.8 million dollars
every year to the San Diego County jails,
that's a guaranteed minimum as a kickback
for what they're making off of the phone system.
And I don't know how that number hits people
but for somebody who is paying 33 cents a minute
every time they wanna call anybody in their life,
that's a lot of money.
And I wish on some level,
not just for for California to lead
but for example, that San Francisco stat,
which I didn't even know about till this phone call
and that could really become a precedent.
I think could understand that on some level money
shouldn't be the barrier for people
not just being able to have a relationship
but being able to have any type of contact
with somebody outside of these four prison walls.
And I can't speak for what it's like staying in prison
but I can definitely tell you in COVID
in the jails is incredibly, I can't overstate it
but it's not just the type of the lockdown
and the restrictions and the lack of visits
but anything that the Commission can do,
anything that the individuals can do
and I really do encourage everyone that's on the call,
thank you so much not just for your care
but for your participation
and to people who are incarcerated,
I'm gonna go back to my dorm tonight
and just try to encourage people that people care
and that not only are they saying things
but it seems like action is happening
and it will make a big impact in the lives of people.
(bell ringing)
Kathleen: Thank you caller for your call, appreciate it
and I can tell you
you have been a very articulate representative
of incarcerated persons,
so appreciate your taking the time to call in.
If there are no questions from the Commissioners,
well, I'll ask the operator to take our next caller, please.
Operator: Our next caller is Moh, you may go ahead.
Moh: I would like to thank the committee for their time
but also let's be mindful that your articulate
is not the compliment to an incarcerated person
that you think it is.
I wanna elevate the concern that has been raised
by community advocates,
that this is the least California can do
to help those that we have chosen to incarcerate.
I wanna humanize and bring home
how many people are currently in our state prison system.
92,000 men, 92,106 men, 3,711 women.
Those are people who have been ripped apart
from their families and forced to live
probably in the middle of nowhere for a lot of these places.
And so I really can't understate how vital
phones have been in my experience
and in my life with my husband.
So he's been in for over 10 years.
I've spent hundreds of thousands of dollars
on phone calls through that time
to maintain our relationship.
He lost all contact with his family
because they couldn't afford to obviously keep putting money
on the books for as long as he was in.
And he comes from the foster care system,
which surprisingly enough are a lot of our people
in our state prison system have spent time in foster care.
That being said, well, we want us to think about who rates
and fees disproportionately impact the most,
we're looking at black
and brown folks who are overrepresented
not only in the prison population
but also within the entire foster care system.
I've worked as a youth counselor
directly with foster care students.
I can't tell you how many relationships
I have watched disintegrate
because families could not afford to have the child stay
with a relative or a loved one
or the person that they could place the child with,
could not afford phone calls to maintain that communication
and so I've watched (bell ringing)
grow up without their parents
and nobody deserves that.
Thank you
Kathleen: Thank you Moh for your call,
appreciate you taking the time to call in.
Operator, if you could call our next caller please.
Operator: Our next caller is Jessica Dungar,
you may go ahead.
Jessica: Hi, yes, my name is Jessica Dungar.
It is J E S S I C A, D U N G E R.
I'm calling on behalf of myself, my family,
my son who's incarcerated
and been incarcerated going on three and a half years.
Sorry, I have a dog barking in the background.
I would just like to piggyback
on some things that were said today and my focus
was the last callers throwing out the statistic
of how many people we do have incarcerated.
The focus on rehabilitation
and basic human connection,
I can't stress this enough, if that's what our country
and California is about rehabilitation of these men
and women then it is our job
for the people that are on the outside
to make that happen.
To be, again, it's been said on this call,
they're like in a vacuum, they can only do so much.
So it is a team effort, I think, to make our country better
to get these prisoners rehabilitated
and that starts with basic human connection, phone calls.
There's plenty of other politics
and money making ways for the prison system to make money
and they are.
I think this could be a very easy first step
to seeing that rehabilitation
and we already heard it from a caller tonight,
who gets free phone calls
and is able to create a program and do the rehabilitation.
We heard it firsthand.
So again, I just have to go back to the word,
if that's what we're focused on is rehabilitation
then we have to show up for the rehabilitation
of these inmates and that starts with human connection.
My son was supposed to be on this phone call tonight
and again, I will bring up there's so many politics
in the system.
I don't know whether a guard didn't let him on tonight,
I don't know if he didn't have funds,
he was worried about all these things
and for the last two weeks, we've been trying
to make sure he's prepared to get on this phone call
and I don't think he was able to
and I don't think money should ever be a reason
at this point when, these prisoners have to deal
with all the other politics, money shouldn't be an issue.
(bell ringing)
Thank you.
Kathleen: Oh, yeah, tank you so much, Ms. Dunder,
appreciate you calling
and I am sorry to hear about your son
that we haven't yet heard from him tonight.
We do understand it's been very difficult,
We've made really every effort we could
with the time we had to make that possible
but we understand that it has been extremely difficult,
if not impossible for many incarcerated persons to call in
and we were sorry to hear that.
So appreciate your taking the time
and I do encourage you to let you make sure
your son knows that it is possible
to provide their written comments
as we've said throughout the meeting.
Jessica: Yes, thank you
and I just like to piggyback
and say COVID I think is an excuse,
these politics were happening before COVID.
Kathleen: Okay, Thank you for that.
Operator, could we hear from the next caller, please?
Operator: Yes, our next caller is Rita Heinz,
you may go ahead.
Rita: Hi, my name is Rita Himes, R I T A, H I M E S.
I'm calling on behalf of the coalition for family unity.
We are a coalition of about 29 organizations led by directly
and system impacted people that are addressing the effects
of mass incarceration on families.
I wanna emphasize that phone calls, like visits
and other forms of communication,
are critical to maintaining family connections
during incarceration,
which is critical for our whole state,
including the children who are left behind
by incarcerated parents who have not committed a crime.
They have doubled the risk of mental health problems.
Having incarcerated parents
is an adverse childhood experience
that is correlated with physical
and mental health problems
and there's research that establishes
that when children have frequent contact
with their incarcerated parents,
they do better in school
and their mental health is substantially improved.
And of course, these family connections help
the incarcerated people themselves with their mental health.
It improves conduct in custody
and help people thrive after release,
lowering recidivism rates by up to 30%
because between 40 and 80% of incarcerated people
rely on families after release.
Phone calls are a necessary supplement to in-person visiting
because, especially in a huge state like California
that places prisons in remote areas,
traveled time and costs of visiting
is onerous on many families.
Also the California prison system has limited hours
which has caused overcrowding
so visits are simply inadequate to maintain relationships.
Families need more regular interactions
that could be provided by phone
and those phone calls need to be high quality
without interruptions, with clear audio
and enough time to have an actual
ordinary conversation that will maintain connection.
The costs (bell ringing) are a huge burden
and I would like to encourage the Commission to consider
whether counties could pull together
in order to negotiate lower rates
if that is a factor and how the CDCR
was recently able to negotiate much lower rates
with its current GPL phone contracts.
So consider whether counties
should join together in negotiating in order to solve
any kind of in an unequal bargaining power issues
and thank you very much for carrying out this proceeding.
Kathleen: Thank you so much MS. Himes,
Very helpful comments.
Operator, do we have any more callers waiting?
If so, please go ahead and announce them.
First of all, I'll just make a short reminder,
if you are listening to today's hearing
and would like to make a comment at this time
and you haven't done so yet, please just go ahead
and press star one and unmute your phone.
And again, for callers,
if you would like to provide your name,
which is not required,
if you could please state your name
and then spell it slowly as you get started
and please do speak
slowly for our court reporters, operator.
Operator: And our next caller is Michelle,
you may go ahead.
Michelle: Hello, my name is Michelle,
that's M I C H E L L E.
I don't know if it's okay if I add my last name as well.
Kathleen: Certainly.
Michelle: Okay, Correa Gonzalez,
C O R R E A, G O N Z A L E Z.
Michelle: Great, please go ahead with your comment,
Ms. Gonzalez.
Michelle: Okay, I just wanna say
that I truly appreciate every one of you
and what you're doing
regarding regulating telecommunications.
The reason why this issue is so important to me
is because I have been directly impacted by this
and I have a loved one who is currently incarcerated.
So not only are people having to bear the costs
to communicate with incarcerated loved ones in California,
they are facing a much more difficult problem
and not just in California, in every state.
Not being able to physically see someone
during something so serious
like a health-related worldwide pandemic could result
in a serious financial crisis and much more, why?
Because most of us cannot bear the fact that a pandemic
has separated us from our loved ones
and although paying extra for the extra phone calls
almost daily or daily will make us
and them feel better emotionally and mentally,
we cannot hide the fact that it's truly causing
a financial strain in our pockets
because jail and prison calls are so expensive.
We have been faced with financial harshes
because we understand that as human beings incarcerated
or not, we need those phone calls for emotional
and mental support and stability.
So if there was a way to reduce the rates
to a much more reasonable amount or omit the fees
or possibly make it free for everybody to make these calls,
then that would help a lot.
It's been a lot
just thinking about like the poor mental health
that increased behavior problems,
these inmates will have trouble reintegrating into society
once they are released, their experience in incarceration.
How can inmates be successful before
and after they're released,
if they're unable to maintain communication
and relationships while incarcerated?
What about their wellbeing? (bell ringing)
Their children's wellbeing and their families,
friends loved ones well being?
Phone calls are the primary
and honestly, the easiest way of keeping communication
between inmates and their families,
especially when inmates are incarcerated far from home.
Everyone hates visitation restrictions
and most that are incarcerated
come from low income families already struggling.
So hopefully we can change this and as
I had mentioned, per call
instead of a per minute rate,
that would be amazing,
that would be a huge help for everybody.
I appreciate it, thank you.
Kathleen: Thank you Ms. Gonzalez, appreciate it
and yes, we are looking at the rates
as well as the fees
and appreciate your suggestion.
Operator, if you could please call our next caller.
Operator: Our next caller is Haley Loper,
You may go ahead.
Haley: Hi, my name is Haley Loper,
it's spelled H A L E Y, L O P E R.
And I just want to speak about how
not only do I have passed experience being incarcerated
in California jails,
I also now have experienced
being on the outside as far as supporting
and taking care of different people
who are incarcerated, male and female.
Before when I was incarcerated in Foster County Jail
I was able to intermix with people from all over the state
and you come to find out that things like phone time,
become kind of like a lottery
and things can become very violent,
things can become really scary in jail.
When you're in jail
and you don't have people to support you
and put money on your phone time
because not only in jail and prisons, you have money
to put on your own phone
so you can call out whoever you want
but then your loved ones also have to put money
on their own phone
so you can just strictly call them
but people in jail will start to cell phone time,
will do trades, whatever it is
and there's times I've witnessed different people promise,
hey, let me borrow some phone time,
my family will put the money on this next week
and I'll get you back and that next week comes around
and it wasn't put on
and people are getting beat up
and they're having to be removed from the tank
because they were so beat up
and it's a huge ordeal.
So that's a big thing that a lot of people don't see
and understand, not only is the expense of the phone calls
but also just about the politics inside.
(bell ringing)
Yeah, you get people who are sharing the phone time,
loaning phone time out
and sometimes things happen where the other people
can't hold up their end of the bargain
and the deal and yeah, fights will happen,
riots will happen,
just a lot of scary stuff
and I believe that that could be greatly eliminated
by making phone calls, if not cheaper but free.
I think it would be realistic to maybe have
like a set amount of
given phone time for inmates
while they're incarcerated,
that limit that they can at least
make a certain amount of phone calls
and then maybe after a certain amount of time,
however many hours or however much,
then you purchase from there
but at least, there's a guarantee
that people can make phone calls if they have to.
Kathleen: Thank you.
If you could please wrap it up,
appreciate your comments, miss Loper
but if you could go ahead and wrap up your thoughts.
Haley: Thank you so much.
Kathleen: Yes, thank you.
You shared something that hasn't been shared
with us yet in these hearings, so appreciate it,
Appreciate you taking the time to call in.
Haley: Thank you.
Kathleen: Caller, if you could please,
excuse me, operator,
if you could please announce the next caller.
Operator: Yes, our next caller is Gwen Raymond,
you may go ahead.
Gwen: Hi, yes.
Thank you guys for your time.
I just wanted to say that as a family member
who has somebody many, actually people who are incarcerated
it's very important that they have these calls.
I was a nurse and I've worked in mental health
and I'm a major in psychology.
We would never do animals
in a way where we isolated them to this point
and with the pandemic happening.
Luckily it's kind of clearing a little bit
where we can get visits and stuff
but mail has been backed up, visits were canceled,
phone calls are outrageous
and they're already being punished
by being where they're at
we don't need to further punish them
by isolating them from the only people that they have,
that they love their contact.
Me, myself, my family members,
they need to go check on their children,
check on our families,
we have elders, we have sick people
and this is their instant contact
with us to be able to get through quickly.
Mails just so backed up right now, no visits,
without these calls being still outrageous
and people not being able to afford it,
it's just inhumane.
Kathleen: Thank you and I believe was your name Gwen?
Did I get that right?
Gwen: Yes ma'am.
Kathleen: And if you wouldn't mind, Gwen,
spelling your last name for us.
Gwen: R A Y M O N D, Raymond.
Kathleen: Great, thank you, Gwen, for calling in,
appreciate you taking the time.
Gwen: And we thank you very much for you guys
holding these proceedings and getting it this far,
it's much appreciated by everybody
and all the loved ones and the incarcerated men and women.
Kathleen: Right, thank you for that comment.
Gwen: Thank you, bye-bye.
Kathleen: Bye-bye.
Operator, if you could please call our next speaker.
Operator: Our next speaker is caller number 10,
you may go ahead.
Woman: Thank you.
I am an attorney, I'm calling from the inland empire
and although I would like to second all the comments
that have been made, I will try to focus
on additional comments that have not previously
been addressed.
One, I think that is measures required by the companies
to the extent fees remain,
although I think fees are inappropriate.
The disclosures to the families are critical.
If you look on these company's website
and you try to figure out the most cost efficient way
to make phone calls it is very difficult.
The disclosure associated with the last two days
worth of proceedings were much more prominent
than any disclosures having to do with fees.
The family members when someone becomes incarcerated
are in a position
that they are going to try to research
and making the information accessible
to them will assist in reducing the burden on families.
Number two,
patients to the incarcerated individuals
having to deal with the fees
so that they way to reach out to family members.
Number three.
Kathleen: I'm sorry, caller, sorry to interrupt,
you cut out there a little bit.
If you wouldn't mind going back to your second point
and then starting again
and I'll have our timer reset the timer
and please just make sure you're speaking into the phone
so it's clear as you can so we can hear you.
Woman: I appreciate that.
My second comment was to ensure that the companies
provide accurate information to the incarcerated individuals
having to deal with the fees associated
with the methods of the calls
and my third point was associated with COVID.
We have learned how the advancement
of technology can assist in allowing the world to progress
and there are many free services that are available
to non incarcerated people.
Most frequently, I think we are familiar with Zoom.
Zoom allows for 40 minutes calls without any fees,
obviously, assuming that you have the ability
to have internet access and a computer.
There is no basis for fees for incarcerated people
to make phone calls.
And at the conclusion of someone's incarceration
there can be a balance left on someone's account.
I will tell you that in my experience.
there's a six month period of time
that the company allows you to seek reimbursement
and the disclosures go out
near the end of that six month period of time
and by the time that you call
and get connected to the right person,
it can be too late to receive that refund.
Those are the types of disclosures
that should continue to be the focus
to the extent fees remain.
As heard, this is a mental health issue
and it impacts mostly the people
that are the innocent family members
attempting to assist in the rehabilitation process.
Thank you very much.
Kathleen: Thank you so much color for calling in
and particularly appreciated your focus on new points
that hadn't been made yet.
Did any of the Commissioners have any questions
they wanted to ask the caller?
Woman: I had one other comment, may I make it?
Kathleen: Yeah, please go ahead.
Woman: The last thing
is the company's movement,
the amount of money you can put on your account per time
and that amount from my experience with Securus
as well as Global Tel is 50 dollars
and you get charged the same fee,
whether you put 10 dollars
or 50 dollars on there should be either a higher amount
you can put on each time to the extent these are allowed
or the fees should be reduced
because that is the way that they continue to promote
their profit at our expense.
Kathleen: All right, thank you.
We heard a lot about that yesterday as well
and just a reminder for the caller
as well as other callers
or if you have other folks listening
that haven't yet made a comment,
we do welcome submittal of emails
to our public advisor's office.
If you have any further information you'd like to provide
to us, the public advisor's email
is public.advisor@cpc.ca.gov
or you can call the public advisor's office
and they will assist you in navigating a Commission
and our practices and their phone number is 18668498390.
So appreciate the comments
and you're taking the time to call in
Operator, do we have any more callers
waiting to make a comment?
If so if you could please call the next one.
Operator: Yes, we have five additional in queue
at this time and our next caller is Liz Araiza,
you may go ahead.
Liz: Hello, good evening.
My name is Liz L I Z, Last name Araiza, A R A I Z,
as in zebra, A
and I have a son who is incarcerated
and one of my issues with the fees
is that they had on the website
we could do video chat,
so I paid for two different video chats,
was not able to log onto those video chats
'cause the facility in which my son
is does not have that access.
I called their customer service to see
if I could get a refund and they told me no,
'cause that's not their problem,
that that facility doesn't offer that.
So I felt that was very crooked,
you could tell right away
my son has not been incarcerated for much time,
it's only been three weeks
and in that three week period,
I can tell you already that my first interaction
with this company,
I could already tell it's a very slimy company,
who's just there to make profit
and money in taking these fees
and so I did talk to a representative who was very rude
and not
a good customer client experience
either ways for the money that they're making.
And again, like some of the callers have said,
I've had to make some phone calls
in which the phone calls are cut off
yet they still take the full 15 minutes, dollar price
and not getting a refund or anything in that nature
for my call being cut off
and it's a lot of money to be paying
when we said it's a pandemic.
People are already in, some people are in despair,
some people are already in some situations
that are you know, dire,
so it doesn't make it any easier
but definitely having a system
or at least like they said, something where we can read
the disclosure and know their return policy
or refund policy if one of the products
that they are selling on their site
is not accessible in the facility
in which your family
or loved one is in, that would be really good as well
(bell ringing)
having some type of monthly maybe subscription service
or something of that nature,
like a flat fee that they could have,
maybe that's something that could be looked at as well,
thank you.
Kathleen: Thank you, Ms. Araiza, for your call
and if you feel comfortable, if you could mention
the company that you're referring to,
I don't know if you're comfortable with that
but if you we are learning somethings
I would say that we didn't know previously
about families pre-paying for 15 minute calls.
So it would help us to look into that a little bit more
or if you wouldn't mind sending that information
via email to us, we'd appreciate that as well.
Liz: Yeah, it's the GT,
I think it's GTO, I believe or GTL, GTL service.
-: [Commissioner Martha] (inaudible) Miss Ariana
is at what facility?
Liz: Santa Rita.
-: [Commissioner Martha] Thank you.
Liz: Thank you.
Kathleen: And Ms.Araiza,
I don't know if it's of interest to you
but if you would like to try
and speak with our public advisor's office,
they may be able to help you in seeking some refunds,
if that's not sure if that would be possible or not
but I've read the number a couple of times
and the public advisor's office
if you'd like to try that is (186) 684-98390,
again, that's (186) 684-98390.
Liz: Thank you.
Kathleen: Operator, if we could
please take the next caller.
Operator: Our next caller is Gle Morgan,
you may go ahead.
Gle: Thank you, Gle Morgan,
I'm with the Public Housing Authority for Sacramento,
G L E, M O R G A N.
I'm concerned about the fees that approximately 3,300
of our clients pay
and I also have a grandson who is incarcerated
at the
Substance Abuse Treatment Center in CALCRIM.
And so I know a lot of people like talk about things
you don't have power over.
I would like to bring up an issue
that I know you guys control
and that is the lifeline
and possibly the Obama phones
and would it be possible to use some of the same regulations
that you used to control those programs
and apply it to the inmate phone program?
I think that would be very beneficial.
You can use some of the same criteria to award
cheaper calling for inmates that are
in the junkie, if you will.
So that was the main thing I wanted to talk about
and I will say that that Adam calls me every day
and I look forward to those calls every day
and he did call while I was waiting on hold
and I let him hear a little bit of it before he left.
I put about 50 dollars on
and I think probably GTL at CALCRIM
is cheaper than a lot of these people
have been talking about
and I don't have to pay some of the fees
and it might be worth looking into what they're doing
there for everybody else
and also look at what your current programs
are in the office
and see if you could apply it to this program also.
Thank you.
Kathleen: Thank you, Mr. Morgan
and Commissioners, do you have any questions?
If not thanks for taking the time,
that's certainly something to consider.
Operator, if you could call our next caller, please.
Operator: Our next caller is Sandra Hardy,
you may go ahead.
Kathleen: Yup, hello, Ms. Hardy, we can hear you,
are you there?
Hardy: Yes, can you hear me?
Kathleen: Yes, we can.
Hardy: Okay, I'll just say that I went to lend my voice
and say I'm happy that you're providing this service
and just like our tax dollars being used,
we have a say.
The people who are incarcerated
and that just a reminder to all,
(inaudible)
Kathleen: Ms. Hardy off the record for a minute.
We are having difficulty hearing you, Ms. Hardy,
if you could please make sure you're speaking
close into the phone and if you're on speaker phone,
please take yourself off speaker phone
and we'll be back on the record
and go ahead when you're ready, Ms. Hardy.
Hardy: Okay, can you hear me now?
Is it better?
Kathleen: Yeah, it is.
Hardy: Just want to reiterate the point
of having these kinds of opportunities for the community
to have something to say and to lend our support
and the humane treatment of people who are incarcerated
and a reminder to all of us that because someone
makes a mistake, that does not make you inhuman
and our goal is to rehabilitate
and to help people to be able to be reintegrated
into society because they do matter.
They're actually the loved ones of many of us.
I have a nephew that's incarcerated
and just to remind ourselves that they mattered
to us quite a bit.
Let's see what else?
Also that we have to remember
that we don't want to punish families
or family members that they're missing their loved ones
but then we're going to punish family members
again by having them pay for the communication
(inaudible)
but one that is really part of the process of helping
to make things better
and appreciate what we're doing
and I hope we'll continue to do it
and that it will make a difference.
Thank you very much.
Kathleen: Thank you so much, Ms. Hardy.
I appreciate your taking the time.
And let's see,
operator, if you have any more callers
or if you'd like to make another announcement for us.
Operator: Yes, thank you.
Again, if you would like to make a public comment,
please unmute your phone
and press star one to join the queue.
Our next caller is Teresa Rockwell,
you may go ahead.
Rockwell: Hello, thank you very much for this opportunity
to speak my opinion and my view on the situation
and thank you for all of the committee
who has made this possible.
First, I wanna say I commend every single caller,
I get emotional because I can sympathize
and empathize with every single situation
people have been in.
This is my first situation
where I have had a loved one incarcerated
and unfortunately his family they're immigrants,
so they have a very low income
and they rely on me for the calling
and any commissary
help that I can give.
In the last two years that he's been incarcerated
I've spent over 21,000 dollars just on fees with Securus.
And I wanna make note
that there was a couple of callers making a mention
about Securus is that
they charge you the three dollars flat fee
no matter how much you're putting on the card,
whether it's 10 dollars, five dollars or 20 dollars
and yet there is a cap of 50 dollars.
I wanna also add that they drop calls constantly.
They have a recording during our conversation,
there is a recording at least 30 seconds long
and it's very annoying
and that to me if I'm paying for this kind of service,
to me that is just unacceptable for a phone call
that is so important.
I wanna say so many things.
A lot of the callers have mentioned
so many things that is so important
and that I wanna mention.
I wanna talk about how it is so sad
that there are so many inmates
in there that can't reach out,
that don't have the ability to fund their phone calls
or their family can't afford to call them
and so yes, they do share phone time,
hello. (bell ringing)
Kathleen: Yes, we can hear you, Ms. Rockwell,
why don't you go ahead and finish your comments.
Rockwell: I'm so sorry.
They do share phone time and it's crucial to them
and because of that my boyfriend has shared his phone time
several times for inmates who don't have the opportunity
to have that allowance.
And I wanna make a note
that it is so important for them to have that
because they only make 25 cents a day if they're working
and how can they afford to make any phone calls
on five dollars a month?
And second of all, there's inmates in there that are,
I particularly know this one incident
where we were on the phone
and his his bunk buddy had a massive heart attack
and his family could not be reached
and to this day, I don't know the outcome of it
and it concerns me, not just for my loved one
but now I'm concerned about other people that are in there.
And again, there's so many things that I can validate
that the other callers have mentioned.
And I am so appreciative that you guys have come together
and allowed us to voice our opinion and our concerns
and I hope there's a really good positive outcome from this.
I probably won't affect me 'cause he's getting out very soon
but I just appreciate you guys having the compassion
to do something about this
and I thank you again for your time and efforts
and I hope that again, there's a good outcome from this.
Kathleen: Thank you so much, Ms. Rockwell
for taking the time to call in
and making those points
and sharing your concerns is.
We have heard those points as well yesterday
so it's definitely something we'll be looking into.
Rockwell: Thank you.
Kathleen: Okay, operator, you'd like to call
the next caller and I'll just say one more time before then
that if anyone is listening on the live stream
or on the phone and you have not yet spoken
and you'd like to, please just go ahead
and press star one and unmute your phone
and the operator will be with you shortly.
Operator, if you could announce our next caller please.
Operator: Our next caller is Delores Cannoli,
you may go ahead.
Delores: Hello, thank you much for providing
this opportunity.
I would like to share my experience.
I have a son that is incarcerated at Theo Lacy,
a men's facility in Orange County, California
and through the service, Global Tel Network,
there's oftentimes that, not just with my son
but many of the individuals, will call home
and us family members will be attempting to accept the call,
we'll press the zero and the five
and everything it asks of us over and over
and then the recording will tell the incarcerated person,
your call was refused
and this creates a lot of chaos,
it compels on the trauma of the family separation
that you're already experiencing anyways,
being separated from your loved one.
I have conveyed to my son what is happening,
he's also communicated to me that it's happening
with numerous individuals
through the Global Tel Link Network.
Another thing that continues to happen.
Kathleen: Ms. sorry to interrupt.
Let's go off the record for a minute.
If you wouldn't mind speaking a little more slowly,
possibly hard for us to catch up
and as we go back on the record
if you wouldn't mind stating your name again
for us we'd appreciate it
and stating and spelling as you could
and go on it will be on the record.
Delores: Thank you, my name is Delores Cannolis
and I have a son that is incarcerated right now.
He's being held in Theo Lacy Men's Facility,
in Orange, California
and one thing that many family members are experiencing
is when we attempt to accept the call,
the collect call from the Global Tel Link Network,
which is referred to as GTL,
the GTL service will refuse our call
and then on the recording
it will tell the incarcerated person that your call
was refused, which is absolutely not the case.
It has caused a lot of concern,
it's added to the trauma that families are already enduring
and suffering when they can't reach their loved one
and then they're being told
that their loved one is refusing the call.
This is something that continues to happen
over and over again, even after multiple attempts.
I've already told my son this is what's happening,
he's explained to me that it's happening
to many individuals inside,
so they are more aware of this to keep trying
over and over again.
Another thing that I've experienced
with GTL, Global Tel Link Network
because I receive numerous calls
from state prisons across the State of California,
as I am a family advocate, is that when the person calls,
if I'm busy or something, Global Tel Link
will still put it through
and they'll be talking to my voicemail
even when I have not accepted.
So it's like you experience the technical difficulties
of both sides of it where I didn't accept the call
but yet I'm still having to pay for it
because I'm not available to talk at the time.
And then there's times where I'm attempting
to accept the call
and it's saying that I did not accept the call.
Also, another thing that Global Tel Link Network
continues to do is if you don't use the money for some time,
numerous family members have reported
to me that they just take it and they just keep it.
I have personally contacted Global Tel Link Network
and I have asked them to mail me,
hard copy mail me, a printout of absolutely all the activity
like you would a phone bill, right?
I have never to date received this.
Another thing that happens
is when at Dale Lacy Facility,
with the seven one four area code,
we're being charged 20 dollars
as the county jails don't have any caps at all.
We're being charged 20 dollars to dial the same area code
within that, which would be free on your telephone.
And another thing Global Tel Link Network
was involved in was a huge scandal
in recording legal conversations to people's attorneys
and the Orange County Sheriff's Department
were handing them over to the district attorney's office
and this was all with the assistance
of Global Tel Lik Network and it is public knowledge
and they continue to just get away with it.
So I would just like to thank you for your time.
I apologize for talking fast.
we're rushed sometimes
and I wanna always provide the next family member
to share about their experience as well.
Thank you.
Kathleen: Thank you so much, Ms. Cannolis
and I apologize for interrupting you
but I have to say we really got a lot from your comment
after you resumed,
it's really just some very helpful comments,
things we hadn't heard previously.
So thank you for calling in,
appreciate your taking the time very much.
Delores: Thank you.
Kathleen: Operator, go to the next caller
and if there are folks on the line
that would like to call in,
please just go ahead and press star one
if you'd like to make a comment
and you haven't done so yet, operator.
Operator: And our next caller is Dennis Shippy,
you may go ahead.
Dennis: Yes, my name's Dennis Shippy
and I'm calling actually from Ohio.
We have a loved one who's incarcerated at CALCRIM
and we actually began communicating
with him beginning last April.
So we've been talking and doing emails for the last year.
Just for anyone who's having a difficulty with GTL,
I would say that they are using MagicJack at all,
they're gonna have a real difficult time
getting phone calls.
MagicJack works really well for outgoing phone calls
but incoming, prepaid phone calls,
it doesn't work at all.
And I was listening to one of the callers
just a few minutes ago, talking
about the difficulties with GTL
and one of ours with GTL with our landline, MagicJack,
it just would not work,
it does work extremely well with cell phones.
That said, I would say that the loved one that we know
has no family members.
He has a sister who really doesn't communicate
with him anymore.
We were in contact with his aunt
and she passed away couple of springs ago
and so we are basically the only family he has.
And we communicate through emails,
we communicate through telephone calls
and with GTL of course, you prepay ahead of time.
And what we've learned living this far away,
actually on the other side of the country,
is how important these phone calls are.
Whether your inmates calling family members
from within California
or calling outside to loved ones
or family members outside of California,
these phone calls are so hugely important.
We've communicated with not only this inmate
but friends of the inmate who are also incarcerated,
we communicate with them through emails
and I can't tell you how often they will just write
and say, could you please communicate,
we haven't heard from you.
We're having difficulties (bell ringing)
to share things with you
and all of these means of communication
are so hugely important
and mean a great deal both to family members
and to the inmates.
And to make the costs for phone calls
less costly for family members,
those living in either within California
or outside, it makes it so much easier.
This inmate we know has had surgeries this past year,
he was in isolation because going
out to a hospital and then returning
he had to be in isolation due to the COVID restrictions
and due to all the, at least, two least two surgeries,
he's had over the last year, I think it's three, actually,
two dealing with his heart
and one with gallbladder,
I can't tell you how important it is to keep in touch
and whether it's emails, which we do prepaid stamps
and sometimes we do stamps for other inmates
as well when they're communicating with us
but communication (bell ringing)
and keeping up the morale of inmates,
regardless of what they're in prison
for is hugely, hugely important.
I can't tell you how moved we are
hearing from our loved one.
Kathleen: Thank you, thank you Mr. Shippy
Dennis: Writing and that.
So any means possible make it less costly, I should say.
Kathleen: Thank you, thank you so much, Mr. Shippy
for calling in, appreciate it,
all the way from Ohio, so thank you for taking the time,
must be quite late there.
And I think we have a few more callers remaining
to make some comments.
We'll go ahead and move to the next caller
if we could, operator.
Operator: And our next caller is Alexandra Gacaya,
you may go ahead.
Alexandra: Hi, my name is Alexandra Gacaya,
and I am just a concerned citizen from the inland empire
and I'm also a medical student
talking on behalf of the COVID-19 relief
and action committee.
And I just want to reinforce will all the incarcerated folks
and people who are related to those incarcerated people
just reiterating what they say,
that calling family should be a human right.
There's literally no harm
in having these people call people that they love.
There should be no one profiting off of incarceration,
mass incarceration
and this is the most inhumane way we could be doing this.
It's literally, again, just a phone call,
it has no harm at all.
It is a small human right that everyone deserves to have.
It's crazy to even be considering that.
And it's just crazy that we're having this topic of debate,
can these people call their loved ones?
That's just ridiculous.
Can you imagine if you're in that place
where people were taking over your barriers
and being able to call your family
and moreover we want these incarcerated folks
to be able to have a community connection,
we want them to be able to rehabilitate
to and prepare them to go back to the community
and by further isolating them
and adding these barriers to them
or having human connections with people out of prison,
that's just ridiculous
and it's only gonna make their time harder
when they get out of prison, if they ever get out.
So again, I am fighting, I am advocating
for free phone calls, a lower rate,
just no barriers to having these phone calls.
Because if you look at it, these barriers
or having people be able
or having barriers for prisoners to call people
having these high rates, it does not benefit anyone
except the money hungry companies
and these are the people who are already
at insurmountable privilege
and that is all I would like to say, thank you.
Kathleen: Thank you, Alexandra,
I appreciate your taking the time
and if you are still on the line,
if you wouldn't mind stating
and spelling your last name again for us,
we'd appreciate that.
-: My name is Alexandra, A L E X A N D R A
and my last name is Gacaya, G A C as in cat
A Y, as in yacht and A as in apple.
Kathleen: All right, thank you so much, Ms. Gacaya,
for calling in.
Operator, could you announce our next caller please?
Operator: Yes and before we go to the next caller
again, if anyone would like to make a public comment,
please press star one at this time to join the queue.
Our next caller is Madeline Reyes,
you may go ahead.
Madeline: Hi, this is Madeline.
I'm just calling, so I have a partner that's incarcerated
and the expenses are really something
that is taking a toll on me.
I'm a college student
and already having a partner that is incarcerated,
it really weighs me down as it is
and I spent 21 cents a minute to speak to him
and if you talk 20 minutes a day for a month,
that adds up to 121 dollars.
I need to speak to him more than that a lot of times
so the cost just adds on and adds on and adds on.
I should be putting this money towards my school
and my living expenses.
So I really wanna say that I appreciate
what Alexandra just said now.
It should be a human right,
especially considering knowing that,
knowing that he's not getting the psychological care health,
mental health services that he needs in prison.
A lot of inmates rely on their
familial friends' support
and you know, at this point he's not able to communicate
with any of his friends
'cause a lot of his friends can't even afford to call in
and check up on him,
so they usually come to me for that, which is sad.
I think that he should have access
to being able to speak to people in his circle.
But I really wanna emphasize
that I do think that calling should be free.
My dad was also incarcerated
so back then we had to pay
to be able to talk to him as well.
And I know that this is an issue
that a lot of people are facing
considering how many people are incarcerated
and how many people eventually have to stop communicating
with their loved ones
because of the debt that they go into.
I just wanted to give my piece on that, thank you.
Kathleen: Thank you so much, Ms. Reyes for calling
and sharing with us
and I'm very sorry to hear about your situation.
It's a lot of money for college students.
Thank you.
If there are any more callers, operator,
if you could go ahead and announce them.
Operator: Our next caller is Deidra,
your line is open.
Deidra: Hi, I spoke earlier this evening.
My name is D E I D R A, Deidra, for the record.
I just wanted to add that yes,
to piggyback on the previous caller a few calls ago,
GTL does get over with the rates.
I have contracted my incarcerated loved one
and haven't been refunded for several video visits,
being that I don't wanna cause any problems
or be problematic, I've just said, you know what?
It's okay, whatever but in reality, it's not okay.
I'm a single parent of twins
and that's my hard earned money
and if I'm unable to clearly see him in a video visit
and the cost being cut short
because of them not having good phone connection,
I should be refunded
and it's a customer service issues
when those calls aren't refunded
and it's something that needs to be investigated.
I also wanna say too, that it places a financial burden
on myself being that again, I'm a single parent
and it's not just me, I'm speaking for everyone
who have these issues.
Incarcerated individuals do not,
are not aware of these hearings,
I wasn't aware of this hearing
until I joined the Facebook group
and so that's how I was informed.
Had I not looked on the group, I wouldn't have been informed
and that needs to be made available
to the public so we can have a say.
And I'm pretty sure that a lot of people in the public,
more people in the public would be on this conference call
had they been aware of this hearing today.
So I wanna wrap up
because I know other callers are wanting to speak
and thank you for your time.
Operator: Thank you Deidra,
appreciate your calling in.
Just about the video visit you mentioned,
you mentioned the phone, the company GTO,
was there a particular facility you could mention for us?
Deidra: Yes, your honor,
it's Santa Rita, like the lady that spoke before.
Kathleen: Okay, all right.
Thank you very much.
Deidra: Thank you
Kathleen: Operator, are there any more callers?
Operator: They show no more callers at this time
but again if you would like to make a public comment
please press star one and unmute your phone.
Kathleen: And we'll go ahead and wait a minute
or two and see if other callers call in
and if not, well, we'll move to close the proceeding,
the hearing, shortly
Operator: And we have our next caller
is caller number one, again,
sir, you line is open.
Man: Really quickly,
I just wanted to encourage the family members
and loved ones of inmates.
If you did have someone that was trying to join this call,
I do think the Commission did a great job
at trying to raise awareness inside of jails.
There was some notices posted in different places
and we heard it on the recording.
The challenge is it's up to the individual deputy
to go to the facility
and unrestrict the number for the conference call
and I had to talk to three sergeants,
all of them told me incorrect, wrong information
and then finally I got ahold of the lieutenant
who actually was able to go to someone in the admin
and unrestrict the phone number
and then I am paying for this call
but the number was blocked.
I hope the Commission understands
it's not just a matter
of raising awareness for people incarcerated,
there's some very real hurdles
and every time you talk to a sergeant
or you talk to a lieutenant about anything
you're kind of putting your head above the water
and that's one of the things when you're incarcerated
you don't wanna do
so it is a very risky thing to try and raise issues
but I really appreciate the Commission,
I really appreciate all the support from everybody
on the call and just to make sure that everyone knows
their loved ones probably did want to be on the call,
it's just that it's not as simple as people think it is
to be able to participate, thanks.
Kathleen: Thank you, caller
and yes, we did learn that as we went along here
that it wasn't as particularly easy for prisoners,
for incarcerated persons to call in.
So I'm glad you were able to
and appreciate your calling in.
Operator, if you could announce the next caller,
I understand there's a couple more.
Operator: Yes, our next caller is Diana Cruz,
you may go ahead.
Diana: Hi, my name is Diana Cruz, spelling is D I A N A,
last name Cruz, C R U Z.
I'm an executive board member
with Pride In Truth Organization
and I'm also a system impacted family member.
First of all, thank you very much for holding this hearing.
I just wanted to say if families
we're not only dealing with the stressors
of having a loved one incarcerated,
which is the main thing
but thinking about having one income
we have to literally count our pennies to even go visit.
Each visit alone is like three to 500 dollars a weekend.
So now on top of that trying to even talk to our loved ones
on these really expensive phone calls
and plus visits, phone calls, they all,
like everybody says, links to a rehabilitation.
We shouldn't have to be forced
to choose whether, okay should I visit
or should I get a call?
These prisons are very, very far away from us
so renting a car, going to a hotel,
all that, everything adds up
and so one less financial burden would be absolutely great.
I remember one time I had two jobs,
I was very financially burdened.
My loved one called me,
it was a 15 minute phone call from prison
but yet it ended at five minutes
because I didn't have enough funds
to even be able to talk to him for 15 minutes.
So, free phone calls would have been great at that time.
I also used to work in jails, in Orange County
and I used to see so many individuals incarcerated
that weren't able to call their loved ones
because their family members weren't financially stable
to receive those phone calls.
So I can see it both ways.
And like a lot of families were saying
the stresses of COVID.
I mean, our loved ones were literally locked down
and one day were able to come out,
some of them weren't even able to call us,
some of them were stressing out,
like I don't have money on my phone
but yet I don't even know if my loved one is sick,
is in the hospital is dying, all those stressors.
Just finalizing it, we as families,
we are our incarcerated loved ones rehabilitation
and we really would like for you guys
to assist us in breaking the barriers
that attempt to keep them away from us
because (bell ringing) they need us,
they need us to continue to be better.
I also had a father incarcerated when I was younger
and I don't even remember receiving one call
and I think they was because we were literally dirt poor
and so that's probably why he wouldn't call.
But even sometimes with my husband
right now I would love to do three-way phone calls
but we can't,
I would love to help individuals do three-way phone calls
because I am financially stable now
but we can't because it'll be like an extra digit violation
and your phone call will end.
But anyways, thank you so very much for holding
this hearing and hearing us out.
Free phone calls would be amazing
and it would bring more families together.
Thank you so much.
Kathleen: Thank you, Cruz,
appreciate your taking the time to call in.
Diana: Thank you.
Kathleen: Operator, if could call
the next speaker, please.
Operator: And our next caller is Cheryl Lawton
you may go ahead.
Cheryl: Hello Commissioner.
Thank you for the opportunity to add
to the discussion this evening.
I have a loved one in San Quentin.
I do reside in North Carolina currently
and have been in contact during February,
during the time that the calls that I would place
on the GTL network would run over four dollars,
four and a half dollars per 15 minute call.
I was encouraged in I think it was early March when,
the rates went down currently,
they are less than 50 cents,
about 45 cents per 15 minute call.
So that was encouraging.
But it also like to add to the earlier caller's comments
about excessive interruptions during the call,
repeating over and over that this call is being recorded.
I think that's excessive,
it does cut into the communication time
and that's an overreach, I believe.
I am currently a law student
interested in criminal law,
so I do have an interest in the welfare
of incarcerated individuals
and many points that the prior callers raised
are very salient to the situation.
Changing gears briefly, I do want to say that I heard
from my loved one today was able to get through,
he was able to get through to me on a call
and he did tell me that his celly,
who also has a friend who is on the GTL network
prepaid calling situation,
that she was not informed of the hearings,
which I found quite odd
because in order to sign up for the network service,
I believe you have to provide your email address
and I did receive my notification about a week or so ago
regarding this hearing and availability to participate
but clearly there are others that also do have
email addresses, et cetera
and are not receiving the notification.
So that's basically what I would like to add this evening
and I hope that this information has been helpful.
Thank you for the opportunity.
Kathleen: Thank you so much caller
and I did miss your name,
if you would care to provide your name,
it would be great, if you could state it
and then spell it for us.
Cheryl: Certainly, Cheryl, C H E R Y L,
last name Lawton, L A W T O N.
Kathleen: Great, thank you, Mrs. Lawton, appreciate it
and yes, appreciate the information.
Operator, are there any more callers?
Operator: And I have no additional callers at this time
but again if you would like to make a public comment
please press star one and unmute your phone.
Kathleen: And we'll just go ahead and wait a minute
or two and see if we get any more callers.
Operator: And please stand by for our next caller.
Our next caller is Pricia, you may go ahead.
Pricia: My name is Pricia Nguyen,
P R I C I A, N G U Y E N
and I'm a concerned resident of the state of California.
And I'm also a medical student
and member of the COVID-19 relief release action committee
in the inland empire.
I feel that there should be no barriers to communication
between loved ones,
that it is a human rights that we have the privilege
of exercising every day
but incarcerated folks don't.
The fact that prices are controlled by private companies
is evidence enough that this is simple expectation
and racism.
People of color are disproportionately represented
in prisons and correctional facilities and their families
and loved ones are already struggling on the outside
and to further burden them with this financial cost
of just simply calling their loved ones
is simply ridiculous.
Our committee feels that capping charges
and fees for prison phone calls is the bare minimum
that can be done to alleviate this cruel harm
that can pandemic to incarcerated folks.
Access to reliable, affordable
and communication with their family is critical
for both their mental, and physical health.
Moreover, the burden of not having access
to telecommunications
or in the pandemic has damaging impacts on public health.
The incarcerated population was hit hard
by COVID early in the pandemic
when the disease spread
throughout the California detention facilities.
Additionally, is the racial ethnic populations
who have suffered and died the most under pandemic
also have disproportionately high rates of incarceration.
We want to reiterate as many others have also expressed
that this exorbitant cost of prison phone calls is racism.
When so many people even outside of prison
have been traumatized by the limited communication
between loved ones imposed by lock downs,
the injustice and cruelty of the high cost
of prison phone calls is further multiplied.
As many others have shared a phone calls are crucial
in providing support for family members
dealing with illness.
Kathleen: Excuse me, Pricia,
sorry to interrupt
and let's go off the record just for a minute.
Sorry to interrupt, Pricia,
we really want to hear the remainder
of what you have to say.
If you wouldn't mind slowing down a little bit,
that would help us greatly.
And we're we're back on the record.
Pricia: Okay, denying that lifeline during pandemic
will have far reaching consequences,
especially in a pandemic where concern, anxiety
and misinformation about the virus
and vaccines abound.
Reliable access to communication with individuals, families
and their doctors is critical
in combating vaccine hesitancy.
We are aware that vaccination is being carried out
in California prisons and incarcerated individuals
sharing their experiences with the vaccine
with family members can help California
as a whole to reach herd immunity.
The pandemic has made information
and communication a critical resource.
To (bell rings) burden that resources cruel
and traumatic.
Kathleen: Thank you, thank you, Pricia,
appreciate your calling in
and we'll take note of your comments.
Operator, are there any more callers?
Operator: And I have no additional callers
in the queue at this time
but again, if you would like to make a comment
please press star one and unmute your phone.
Kathleen: And we'll just wait a minute or two
and see if we get any more callers.
Okay, hearing none, let's go ahead
and close the call in line
and we'll wrap up the hearing in just a minute
and before we do that, I'd like to offer
any of the Commissioners the chance to make some remarks.
Commissioner, whichever of you would like to start
to please go ahead.
-: I'll go ahead.
Thank you Judge Vogel.
I just wanna reiterate the deep appreciation
that we have for everyone taking the time today,
particularly for the folks that are incarcerated
and giving their more precious time, more expensive time.
And there was so much gain from today's comments
and so much to really adjust our thinking
on how best to structure what we have proposed.
So thank you very much.
And I just wanna acknowledge the tremendous burden
that many of you have overcome
and know that we are listening
and want to try to structure this as well as we can.
Thank you.
Kathleen: Thank you Commissioner.
Commissioner Sharona, would you like to make some remarks?
-: Yes, thank you, thank you Judge Vogel.
Thank you to everyone who's called in,
the family members, incarcerated persons,
the activists,
the individuals who wanted to make sure
that we heard them and understood.
I was very appreciative of
that the the hardship
of navigating, being able to stay connected to a loved one
and if you have the added hardship of
being low wage, one income,
maybe even earning no income,
how do you stay connected and navigate fees
and silly dollars and cents per call
and all the while,
that connection is so important.
Now, look, I wanna share that
I am also
someone who had a family member incarcerated
many years ago
and
I look back and on the one hand I feel
if I knew then what I know now,
I was different,
my own behavior would be in terms of my communication
with my family member,
we corresponded, we didn't talk by phone.
What I appreciate with that family member is
what do you need most from me?
And it was to listen
and to hear
and I haven't forgotten that.
I recall,
the feeling never goes away.
I recall
how overwhelmed I felt,
how overwhelmed did my family member feel?
But I know how I felt and I'm a person with means,
so I can only imagine the hardship
on families
that have the added burden
of not having the needs, financial needs
and again, just navigating sheer bureaucracy,
it's mind boggling.
So I wanna thank everyone
and I look forward to working with
our Commissioner on this proceeding with Judge Vogel
and see what we can do.
Thank you, judge, back to you.
-: Thank you so much, Commissioner.
Commissioner Houck, I imagine
you'd like to make some comments.
-: Thank you, judge Vogel.
I just really wanna sincerely thank everybody
that commented this evening for sharing their stories,
their circumstances and what they're dealing with regarding
being able to communicate
or not being able to communicate
with their loved ones that are incarcerated
and I wanna reassure you that we are listening
and thanks Commissioner Gusmanaservice
and Judge Vogel for their leadership
on this really important proceeding.
Again, thank you and I know it's getting late,
so I'll just leave it at that for this evening.
So thank you.
-: Thank you so much, Commissioner
and again, echoing the remarks from all of the Commissioners
on how valuable it's been for us to hear
from everyone who called in today.
We really appreciate you taking the time to call in.
We've definitely learned some things
that we were not aware of earlier.
So we will be reviewing those points
and reviewing the transcript
to look at those points as we go forward
so thank you so much for taking that time.
As I mentioned earlier, the current schedule
for this rulemaking does have the Commission issuing
and considering and voting on a proposed decision
on this matter in the summer
and just another comment that,
if you did not call in or if you did call in
and you have something you'd like to add,
you can also submit written comments at any time
throughout the rest of the year,
there is no deadline, there's no May first deadline.
You can submit written comments
on the docket card for this proceeding,
which can be reached at cpc.ca.gov/R2010002Comments
and you can also mail us by regular mail comments
at any time this year.
You can go to the CPCs website to find our mailing address.
And those comments are most helpful
to come in in the next couple of months,
as I said, we intend to issue an interim decision
on this in summer but you can comment
and write anytime this year to us.
And finally, just if you have anything else
you'd like to add, just one more time,
the Commission's public advisor's office
is public.advisor@cpc.ca.gov.
And thank you so much to the Commissioners
also for joining all of you.
We appreciate the particular Commissioner Houck
who hasn't been as involved in this case so far
to have taken the time.
So with that the hearing is adjourned.
Thank you so much.