WEBVTT 00:00:13.240 --> 00:00:15.169 This meeting of the Public Utility Commission will 00:00:15.169 --> 00:00:17.379 come to order to consider matters that have been duly 00:00:17.379 --> 00:00:19.989 posted with the Secretary of State of Texas for December 00:00:19.989 --> 00:00:24.089 3, 2021. At this time, we'll proceed through the 00:00:24.089 --> 00:00:27.140 scheduled items. The first and only item to be taken 00:00:27.140 --> 00:00:31.440 up as project number 52364. Proceeding for eligible 00:00:31.440 --> 00:00:34.740 entities to file and opt out pursuant to PURA Chapter 00:00:34.740 --> 00:00:39.340 39.653, subsection D and for load serving entities to 00:00:39.340 --> 00:00:42.420 file documentation of exposure to cost pursuant to 00:00:42.420 --> 00:00:46.979 debt obligation order in docket 52322. Mr. Journeay, 00:00:46.979 --> 00:00:51.609 please lay out the matter for us. Sir, I'm not sure 00:00:51.609 --> 00:00:55.560 I can add much to it except to say that parties are 00:00:56.039 --> 00:01:00.450 seeking clarity about the deadline in which one must 00:01:00.450 --> 00:01:04.659 follow the notice of opt out in 52364 to 00:01:04.659 --> 00:01:09.890 effectively opt out of the uplift charges. 00:01:09.890 --> 00:01:13.439 Well said, I'll take it from here. As far as I can 00:01:13.439 --> 00:01:17.409 see it, there are three, possibly four, issues in front 00:01:17.409 --> 00:01:20.129 of us. And if you're agreeable, I'll walk through them in 00:01:20.129 --> 00:01:24.280 order. If we can. The first is a procedural matter. 00:01:24.450 --> 00:01:28.700 This issue should be, whether this issue should be severed 00:01:28.709 --> 00:01:33.010 into a separate docket. In my opinion, the answer is 00:01:33.010 --> 00:01:36.159 yes. And let me explain the reasoning behind that. 00:01:36.840 --> 00:01:40.230 In an order filed on docket number 52322 00:01:40.230 --> 00:01:43.879 on August 19th of 21, the Commission stated the docket 00:01:43.890 --> 00:01:50.109 number 52364 would be used as a repository for documentation 00:01:50.109 --> 00:01:52.909 both of exposure to costs included the uplift balance 00:01:52.909 --> 00:01:57.540 and of opt outs under PURA 39.653, subsection d, and 00:01:57.540 --> 00:02:01.530 verification of amounts in that documentation and severed 00:02:01.540 --> 00:02:07.349 out those issues from docket number 52322 into 00:02:07.349 --> 00:02:11.530 docket #52364. Consequently, this matter was classified 00:02:11.530 --> 00:02:16.099 as a project rather than a docket. In front of us today 00:02:16.099 --> 00:02:18.539 we are being asked to interpret its debt obligation 00:02:18.539 --> 00:02:23.090 order, in docket number 52322, in its own procedural 00:02:23.090 --> 00:02:26.740 rules. This is essentially a request for a declaratory 00:02:26.750 --> 00:02:30.900 order, and such action would not be appropriate in 00:02:30.900 --> 00:02:35.629 project #52364. In my view. The request for Commission 00:02:35.629 --> 00:02:38.620 action should be severed into its own docket. As a 00:02:38.620 --> 00:02:43.240 result. If you all agree, then a number of dockets 00:02:43.240 --> 00:02:47.120 needed to be transferred, then a number of documents 00:02:47.120 --> 00:02:50.810 need to be transferred to the new docket. Steven, correct 00:02:50.810 --> 00:02:53.659 me if I'm missing anything, but these documents would 00:02:53.659 --> 00:02:59.750 include filings item, filing items 506, 516, 519, 00:03:00.240 --> 00:03:10.139 528, 530, 531, 533, 534, and 535. 00:03:10.139 --> 00:03:12.169 I think that's right, sir. You're making me wish I 00:03:12.169 --> 00:03:14.569 would have brought our draft order with me now to make 00:03:14.569 --> 00:03:17.009 sure that we're on board. But I believe that's correct 00:03:17.009 --> 00:03:21.740 Okay. Good. 00:03:21.740 --> 00:03:27.139 The only-- 00:03:27.139 --> 00:03:32.439 00:03:32.439 --> 00:03:35.129 I think there's, I think there's one other that we would 00:03:35.129 --> 00:03:43.740 like to include. That is the... 00:03:43.740 --> 00:03:46.983 God, I'm sorry. I'm having old man brain. 00:03:47.007 --> 00:03:48.043 it's Friday. 00:03:48.067 --> 00:03:49.882 I need you with us today. 00:03:49.906 --> 00:03:51.199 So close. 00:03:54.939 --> 00:04:03.840 No, it's the, it's the one about the mail in. 00:04:03.840 --> 00:04:06.039 00:04:06.039 --> 00:04:11.139 It may be. Would you give me... 00:04:11.139 --> 00:04:14.460 I know someone who can tell me. 00:04:15.240 --> 00:04:21.569 What's the filing that we were talking about, 00:04:21.569 --> 00:04:24.250 about the mailing? 00:04:24.250 --> 00:04:28.240 And which item number is it? 00:04:28.240 --> 00:04:30.964 That is 28 00:04:30.988 --> 00:04:35.139 528. Thanks, Ned Mexico. Thanks, sir. 00:04:35.139 --> 00:04:37.209 Arizona is not that far away. 00:04:37.233 --> 00:04:38.800 So we are taken care 00:04:38.800 --> 00:04:39.440 of? 00:04:39.464 --> 00:04:40.016 Yes, sir. 00:04:40.040 --> 00:04:42.160 All right. Good. With that, I'll 00:04:42.160 --> 00:04:45.269 open it up to discussion on this issue. What do you 00:04:45.269 --> 00:04:45.905 guys think? 00:04:45.929 --> 00:04:47.860 I agree with you, Commissioner McAdams. 00:04:48.639 --> 00:04:54.029 Open up a separate proceeding to evaluate the 00:04:54.050 --> 00:04:55.173 regulatory order. 00:04:55.197 --> 00:04:57.389 Perfect. Okay. I was hoping that 00:04:57.389 --> 00:05:02.449 would be one of the easier ones. Okay, moving on, issue 00:05:02.449 --> 00:05:08.759 two, does the three PM deadline in 16 TAC 2271 00:05:08.769 --> 00:05:12.689 subsection H, apply to opt out filings in project 00:05:12.689 --> 00:05:18.649 number 52364. In my view, no. Let me explain. Very 00:05:18.649 --> 00:05:24.689 important, under 16 TAC 2271, subsection h, all 00:05:24.689 --> 00:05:27.769 documents shall be filed by three pm on the due date 00:05:27.779 --> 00:05:30.459 unless otherwise ordered by the presiding officer. 00:05:31.040 --> 00:05:34.089 Subsection A of that rule clarifies that the section 00:05:34.100 --> 00:05:38.410 applies to all proceedings, to all pleadings. My apologies. 00:05:39.040 --> 00:05:41.970 Subsection A of that rule clarifies that the section 00:05:41.970 --> 00:05:46.829 applies to all pleadings as defined in 16 TAC 00:05:46.839 --> 00:05:51.459 22.2, as well as the following documents. Number one, 00:05:51.839 --> 00:05:54.750 all documents filed relating to the rulemaking proceeding. 00:05:55.040 --> 00:05:58.860 Number two, applications. Number three, documents filed 00:05:58.860 --> 00:06:05.740 relating to a rulemaking proceeding. And... 00:06:05.740 --> 00:06:09.699 Wait a minute. Sorry, yeah, letters or memoranda relating 00:06:09.699 --> 00:06:12.519 to any item with a control number, that was number three. 00:06:12.529 --> 00:06:16.529 Number four, Reports required by PURA, Commission rules, 00:06:16.540 --> 00:06:20.120 or request of the Commission. Or number five, discovery requests 00:06:20.120 --> 00:06:25.600 and responses. Now, pleading is defined in 16 TAC 22.2 00:06:25.610 --> 00:06:29.829 subsection 32 as a written document submitted by a 00:06:29.829 --> 00:06:33.050 party or a person seeking to participate in a proceeding, 00:06:33.540 --> 00:06:38.129 set forth allegations of fact, claims, requests for 00:06:38.129 --> 00:06:42.160 relief, legal argument and-or matters relating to a 00:06:42.160 --> 00:06:47.990 proceeding. Rroceeding is then defined in 16 TAC 22.2, 00:06:47.990 --> 00:06:53.240 subsection 35, as any hearing, investigation, inquiry 00:06:53.250 --> 00:06:56.180 or other fact finding or decision making procedure 00:06:56.500 --> 00:06:59.360 including the denial of relief or the dismissal of 00:06:59.360 --> 00:07:02.610 a complaint conducted by the Commission or the Utility 00:07:02.610 --> 00:07:05.120 Division of the State Office of Administrative Hearings. 00:07:05.740 --> 00:07:09.120 So therefore, I believe that the opt out filings made 00:07:09.120 --> 00:07:15.029 in project number 523634 are not pleadings, which related, 00:07:15.040 --> 00:07:19.750 which relate to proceedings because project #52634 00:07:19.759 --> 00:07:25.779 is not a proceeding. Project 52364 is a repository 00:07:25.870 --> 00:07:29.300 and we clearly stated that earlier, and is not designed 00:07:29.300 --> 00:07:33.189 for a contested case hearing. Key nuance. The opt out 00:07:33.189 --> 00:07:36.449 filings do not fall under any definition of a document 00:07:36.449 --> 00:07:42.019 specified in 16 TAC 2271, subsection A, 1 through 00:07:42.019 --> 00:07:47.149 5. So, no, I do not believe that the three PM deadline 00:07:47.149 --> 00:07:49.980 applies here and no good cause conception would be 00:07:49.980 --> 00:07:53.259 required because this is not a proceeding under our 00:07:53.259 --> 00:07:57.699 rules, and it would allow filings to go to 00:07:58.540 --> 00:08:06.899 11 PM. 59, 59. So I'll stop there. Pause. If you have 00:08:06.899 --> 00:08:09.240 any thoughts, depending on your answers on that and 00:08:09.240 --> 00:08:14.050 consensus that directly relates to issue three. 00:08:14.839 --> 00:08:19.290 I agree with your interpretation of both rules, 00:08:19.300 --> 00:08:25.519 procedure rule 22.2. and procedure Rule 22.71. 00:08:25.620 --> 00:08:27.748 I'm supportive. 00:08:27.772 --> 00:08:28.959 Good. We're in the rabbit hole, 00:08:28.959 --> 00:08:33.440 and we're doing good. Issue three. The discussion 00:08:33.440 --> 00:08:36.000 and second, in the second issue leads the issue three 00:08:36.009 --> 00:08:39.779 because depending on how the Commission should construe 00:08:39.779 --> 00:08:42.340 its debt obligation order in docket 52322 00:08:42.340 --> 00:08:47.279 to mean that the 45 day time period ended at 11:59 00:08:47.279 --> 00:08:54.110 59 on November 29, 2021. So, in my opinion, that's yes. The 00:08:54.110 --> 00:08:57.190 debt obligation order states that each transmission 00:08:57.190 --> 00:09:00.309 level customer that elects to opt out must file a certain 00:09:00.309 --> 00:09:05.840 form in docket number 52364 within 45 calendar days 00:09:05.940 --> 00:09:09.690 of the date this order is signed or was signed. As 00:09:09.690 --> 00:09:13.970 we discussed the 3 PM deadline in 16 TAC 2271 00:09:13.970 --> 00:09:17.379 subsection H does not apply to opt out filings in project 00:09:17.379 --> 00:09:21.529 number 52364. So, therefore, the Commission, in my 00:09:21.529 --> 00:09:23.730 opinion, should construe its debt obligation order 00:09:23.730 --> 00:09:28.240 to mean that the 45 day time period ended at 11:59.59 00:09:28.240 --> 00:09:34.340 on November 29 of 2021. Any thoughts? 00:09:34.340 --> 00:09:37.840 I agree. 00:09:37.840 --> 00:09:41.480 Wow you run on a tight ship. Man. I love it. 00:09:41.490 --> 00:09:43.960 I worked for some good. good bosses. They taught me well. 00:09:44.539 --> 00:09:48.220 Okay, if everybody's agreeable following this discussion, 00:09:48.230 --> 00:09:53.460 I will entertain a motion to direct staff to issue, 00:09:53.460 --> 00:09:57.159 to formalize an order consistent with our discussion. 00:09:58.340 --> 00:09:59.380 So moved. 00:09:59.404 --> 00:10:00.178 Second. 00:10:00.202 --> 00:10:02.549 All those in favor say aye. Aye. 00:10:03.139 --> 00:10:08.789 Motion passes. This meeting, duly posted of the Public 00:10:08.789 --> 00:10:11.000 Utility Commission of Texas is hereby adjourned.