WEBVTT 00:00:05.776 --> 00:00:08.443 (gavel banging) 00:00:09.678 --> 00:00:11.380 The meeting of the Public Utility Commission of Texas 00:00:11.380 --> 00:00:12.880 is now called back into order. 00:00:14.990 --> 00:00:17.640 We will be picking up our agenda, 00:00:17.640 --> 00:00:22.230 the last item we did was number item 17, 00:00:22.230 --> 00:00:26.890 I believe Mr. Janae, which will move us all 00:00:26.890 --> 00:00:28.173 the way through to. 00:00:35.860 --> 00:00:38.787 We're gonna send it up to 21 then, I believe. 00:00:39.700 --> 00:00:42.550 All right, item 21, I don't have anything. 00:00:42.550 --> 00:00:44.080 Do you wanna? 00:00:44.080 --> 00:00:44.913 (indistinct) 00:00:44.913 --> 00:00:47.053 We're gonna go ahead and take up item 22. 00:00:49.830 --> 00:00:52.370 20, we've already called that 00:00:52.370 --> 00:00:54.643 so we just need to pull back up. 00:00:54.643 --> 00:00:57.106 Let's pull it back up. 00:00:57.106 --> 00:00:58.273 Mr Smeltzer. 00:01:05.169 --> 00:01:06.760 May I approach the bench? 00:01:06.760 --> 00:01:07.593 Please. 00:01:09.030 --> 00:01:10.871 Did you go to law school? 00:01:10.871 --> 00:01:13.233 (group laughing) 00:01:13.233 --> 00:01:16.400 (indistinct chatter) 00:01:23.923 --> 00:01:26.793 We'll be doing a credentials review after the meeting. 00:01:26.793 --> 00:01:28.820 (group laughing) 00:01:28.820 --> 00:01:30.570 David Smeltzer, Commission staff, 00:01:31.620 --> 00:01:32.580 we returned and talk about 00:01:32.580 --> 00:01:35.790 the retail electric customer protection rule. 00:01:35.790 --> 00:01:39.500 The item for discussion before we left was 00:01:39.500 --> 00:01:42.571 the question of the definition of fixed rate product 00:01:42.571 --> 00:01:45.280 and whether not that included a ancillary service pass 00:01:45.280 --> 00:01:47.218 through or more accurately, 00:01:47.218 --> 00:01:49.553 whether or not ancillary service contracts could be changed 00:01:49.553 --> 00:01:54.553 based on future changes in ancillary services costs. 00:01:54.920 --> 00:01:57.675 Staff has provided you with some language 00:01:57.675 --> 00:02:00.440 that we think captures the intent 00:02:00.440 --> 00:02:03.260 that was expressed by Commissioner McAdams. 00:02:03.260 --> 00:02:08.260 And so the change would be the last sentence 00:02:08.360 --> 00:02:09.830 that had been added in the draft 00:02:09.830 --> 00:02:11.730 would change to the price may not vary from 00:02:11.730 --> 00:02:13.176 the disclosed amount to reflect changes 00:02:13.176 --> 00:02:14.984 in the ancillary service charges 00:02:14.984 --> 00:02:17.420 unless the Commission expressly designates 00:02:17.420 --> 00:02:19.260 a specific type of ancillary service product 00:02:19.260 --> 00:02:21.412 as incurring charges beyond the rep's control 00:02:21.412 --> 00:02:23.253 for a customer's existing contract. 00:02:23.253 --> 00:02:26.699 So what this would do is the default posture 00:02:26.699 --> 00:02:30.471 would be that reps can not vary their contracts, 00:02:30.471 --> 00:02:34.410 or it cannot vary the price of existing contracts, 00:02:34.410 --> 00:02:36.443 any ancillary services that are known at the time 00:02:36.443 --> 00:02:38.215 or, you know, that are in effect at a time 00:02:38.215 --> 00:02:39.865 that a contract is being signed, 00:02:39.865 --> 00:02:41.300 they can't rate based on that. 00:02:41.300 --> 00:02:42.730 They should've hedged for it, 00:02:42.730 --> 00:02:45.227 but in the instance that there are extraordinary 00:02:45.227 --> 00:02:49.393 or unexpected costs associated with 00:02:49.393 --> 00:02:53.303 a new or modified ancillary service in the opinion 00:02:53.303 --> 00:02:56.973 of the Commission, as part of like the approval 00:02:56.973 --> 00:03:01.973 of the NPRR or entry of the new ancillary service 00:03:03.290 --> 00:03:05.400 you guys would have the discretion to make 00:03:05.400 --> 00:03:08.423 that pass through rubble as appropriate. 00:03:11.110 --> 00:03:13.830 But reps, the rep community would have to sort of come 00:03:13.830 --> 00:03:17.570 and make their case for it, right? 00:03:17.570 --> 00:03:19.550 'Cause we'd want these to be like acknowledge 00:03:19.550 --> 00:03:21.501 well defined decisions with the idea being that we want, 00:03:21.501 --> 00:03:23.736 we genuinely want reps to be able 00:03:23.736 --> 00:03:27.140 to get long-term financing, have long-term contracts, 00:03:27.140 --> 00:03:29.830 hedge their products and have some certainty 00:03:29.830 --> 00:03:31.113 to know that the Commission's not going to 00:03:31.113 --> 00:03:35.760 be thoughtless about the assigning of new costs 00:03:35.760 --> 00:03:36.820 to that particular community. 00:03:36.820 --> 00:03:40.541 So this will hopefully be a safety backstop 00:03:40.541 --> 00:03:44.120 for the rep community. 00:03:44.120 --> 00:03:45.230 And I think that was our, 00:03:45.230 --> 00:03:48.223 what we heard from you guys prior to the break. 00:03:50.380 --> 00:03:53.318 So just to attest in terms of my view, 00:03:53.318 --> 00:03:58.318 I believe that does because where I wanted to go 00:04:00.140 --> 00:04:04.507 is to provide a mechanism for the market, 00:04:05.570 --> 00:04:10.106 the public to come in and demonstrate the need for, 00:04:10.106 --> 00:04:12.090 and to tell us, okay, 00:04:12.090 --> 00:04:13.785 because there's gonna be a million 00:04:13.785 --> 00:04:18.400 and one business models out there in the retail community. 00:04:18.400 --> 00:04:20.190 Like you said, selling coasters, 00:04:20.190 --> 00:04:21.856 they'll find a million- I dint say that. 00:04:21.856 --> 00:04:23.544 Okay, sorry, no, they did, they did, 00:04:23.544 --> 00:04:24.377 they did, they did. 00:04:24.377 --> 00:04:25.540 Important, very important detail. 00:04:25.540 --> 00:04:28.245 Correct, maybe I should stop talking. 00:04:28.245 --> 00:04:29.710 (group laughing) 00:04:29.710 --> 00:04:32.490 In any case, there will be a variety 00:04:32.490 --> 00:04:33.948 of business models out there. 00:04:33.948 --> 00:04:36.230 This would provide a mechanism 00:04:36.230 --> 00:04:40.232 and a safeguard for the Commission to have to re-look 00:04:40.232 --> 00:04:45.232 or examine as we authorize and approve of the products 00:04:45.429 --> 00:04:50.429 on a case-by-case basis to account for the effect 00:04:52.060 --> 00:04:57.060 on the retail community and to essentially build in 00:04:57.220 --> 00:05:02.220 a process for approval or disallowance of pass through 00:05:02.495 --> 00:05:06.430 the ancillary services and what those conditions 00:05:06.430 --> 00:05:09.132 might look like if it's a pass through in part, 00:05:09.132 --> 00:05:12.330 if it's a conditional pass through, 00:05:12.330 --> 00:05:13.890 whatever we need to do 00:05:13.890 --> 00:05:17.490 because you can't accurately forecast the future, 00:05:17.490 --> 00:05:19.710 we would have that opportunity 00:05:19.710 --> 00:05:22.740 and it would be, give them a due process 00:05:22.740 --> 00:05:26.810 to come litigate this and allow us to do 00:05:26.810 --> 00:05:27.660 what we're supposed to do, 00:05:27.660 --> 00:05:28.973 which is safeguard the public interest 00:05:28.973 --> 00:05:31.033 and determine the best path forward. 00:05:32.511 --> 00:05:35.660 Agreed, nicely put. 00:05:35.660 --> 00:05:36.903 Commissioner McAdams, well said. 00:05:36.903 --> 00:05:39.310 Again, like I said at the beginning of our discussion, 00:05:39.310 --> 00:05:41.780 I think this is a balance between protecting consumers 00:05:41.780 --> 00:05:44.174 and ensuring a competitive, healthy retail market. 00:05:44.174 --> 00:05:47.760 I think this language strikes that balance in terms 00:05:47.760 --> 00:05:52.110 of trying to ensure that we still have fixed rate products 00:05:52.110 --> 00:05:53.700 in our competitive market, 00:05:53.700 --> 00:05:57.430 but also provide more transparency and visibility, 00:05:57.430 --> 00:06:01.237 and more due process for the reps going forward 00:06:01.237 --> 00:06:03.610 so that they can properly hedge against 00:06:03.610 --> 00:06:07.470 all of the items that we are looking at 00:06:07.470 --> 00:06:09.960 through our market design grid reform efforts 00:06:09.960 --> 00:06:11.530 that are important for reliability 00:06:11.530 --> 00:06:12.799 and for consumers as well, 00:06:12.799 --> 00:06:16.844 but to be able to provide the reps 00:06:16.844 --> 00:06:21.830 the opportunity to hedge against those costs 00:06:21.830 --> 00:06:24.740 and for the Commission to take more of an active role 00:06:24.740 --> 00:06:26.948 on approving all of those efforts as we will, 00:06:26.948 --> 00:06:31.948 but also an active role on sizing those efforts 00:06:32.011 --> 00:06:37.011 to ensure that we are appropriately balancing benefits, 00:06:37.270 --> 00:06:40.573 reliability, benefits, and consumer costs in the future. 00:06:41.520 --> 00:06:42.680 And we may also note that I think 00:06:42.680 --> 00:06:44.309 a lot of times ancillary services have a lead time 00:06:44.309 --> 00:06:48.550 with when they would come into effect. 00:06:48.550 --> 00:06:49.657 So there might even be an opportunity, 00:06:49.657 --> 00:06:52.010 I assume that in time there would be an opportunity 00:06:52.010 --> 00:06:54.500 for them to maybe get those questions answered 00:06:54.500 --> 00:06:56.800 before the new cost came into effect, potentially 00:06:56.800 --> 00:06:58.905 if and when there's enough lead time to do so. 00:06:58.905 --> 00:06:59.738 Absolutely. 00:06:59.738 --> 00:07:01.093 Okay. 00:07:01.093 --> 00:07:02.523 Well, yes, well, long before. 00:07:03.951 --> 00:07:04.830 All right, so done? 00:07:04.830 --> 00:07:07.220 I'm good, thank you for the (indistinct). 00:07:07.220 --> 00:07:10.332 Yeah, appreciate the quick edits 00:07:10.332 --> 00:07:13.653 to improve an already excellent rule. 00:07:15.230 --> 00:07:17.647 Is- Along, sorry, and along with that, 00:07:17.647 --> 00:07:19.378 if you would also approve us, 00:07:19.378 --> 00:07:21.250 we've not yet edited the preamble 00:07:21.250 --> 00:07:23.190 but I assume we're gonna have to do a quick run through 00:07:23.190 --> 00:07:25.209 and make a few edits in line with the discussion 00:07:25.209 --> 00:07:26.312 that we just had. 00:07:26.312 --> 00:07:28.790 So if whatever you approve could give us that discretion 00:07:28.790 --> 00:07:29.990 that would be fantastic. 00:07:30.970 --> 00:07:32.270 That works. 00:07:32.270 --> 00:07:34.152 Is there a motion to approve the proposal 00:07:34.152 --> 00:07:37.923 for adoption with the edits submitted by Mr. Smeltzer 00:07:37.923 --> 00:07:41.300 and the discretion to reconcile the preamble 00:07:41.300 --> 00:07:42.400 with said edits? 00:07:42.400 --> 00:07:43.300 So moved. 00:07:43.300 --> 00:07:44.133 Second. 00:07:44.133 --> 00:07:45.359 All in favor say aye. 00:07:45.359 --> 00:07:46.520 Aye. 00:07:46.520 --> 00:07:47.720 Non opposed, the motion passes, 00:07:47.720 --> 00:07:49.888 thank you very much, Mr. Smeltzer. 00:07:49.888 --> 00:07:50.755 Thank you David, for your work 00:07:50.755 --> 00:07:52.050 on that very important rule. 00:07:52.050 --> 00:07:52.883 Thank you, Connie, I appreciate it. 00:07:52.883 --> 00:07:54.333 Thank you, Connie and team. 00:07:56.030 --> 00:07:58.349 Mark also wanted his shout out, he's over there. 00:07:58.349 --> 00:08:00.020 (everyone laughing) 00:08:00.020 --> 00:08:01.348 Yeah, Mark. 00:08:01.348 --> 00:08:02.381 Thank you, Mark. 00:08:02.381 --> 00:08:05.164 Mark's been hustling just as hard as Smeltzer, I think. 00:08:05.164 --> 00:08:06.470 (indistinct) 00:08:06.470 --> 00:08:08.553 See, he just gave him more work. 00:08:08.553 --> 00:08:11.553 (everyone laughing) 00:08:12.400 --> 00:08:15.747 See, he's literally going up some TEA Smeltzer. 00:08:16.770 --> 00:08:18.587 All right, we've already addressed, 00:08:18.587 --> 00:08:22.769 I think for 23, 24, we've already addressed item 25, 00:08:22.769 --> 00:08:27.769 which brings us to 26, I believe Mr. Janae. 00:08:29.144 --> 00:08:31.970 26 Is Project 52307, 00:08:31.970 --> 00:08:33.263 a review of the rules adopted by 00:08:33.263 --> 00:08:36.122 the independent organization in county year 2021, 00:08:36.122 --> 00:08:39.122 Commission staff has filed a memo along 00:08:39.122 --> 00:08:42.627 with a proposed order that addresses 19 (indistinct). 00:08:44.731 --> 00:08:45.603 Thank you. 00:08:47.130 --> 00:08:52.130 These rule changes have been in the works 00:08:52.150 --> 00:08:54.083 but at the tech level or across staff level 00:08:54.083 --> 00:08:57.750 at the PUC staff level with Rebecca Zerwas 00:08:57.750 --> 00:08:59.610 and her team do an extraordinary amount of work 00:08:59.610 --> 00:09:01.579 over the last number of months. 00:09:01.579 --> 00:09:04.390 All of these are, I know y'all are familiar with, 00:09:04.390 --> 00:09:08.420 all these are much needed improvements, 00:09:08.420 --> 00:09:13.420 and I think it's fair to say a dramatic amount of changes 00:09:14.290 --> 00:09:15.740 in the short amount of time 00:09:15.740 --> 00:09:19.320 that will deliver tangible results. 00:09:19.320 --> 00:09:21.020 Any thoughts, questions, comments? 00:09:23.050 --> 00:09:23.900 Strongly agree. 00:09:25.470 --> 00:09:26.303 Same. 00:09:26.303 --> 00:09:27.740 All right, is there a motion 00:09:27.740 --> 00:09:29.340 to approve the proposed order? 00:09:29.340 --> 00:09:30.173 So moved. 00:09:30.173 --> 00:09:31.962 Second. All in favor say aye. 00:09:31.962 --> 00:09:32.795 Aye. 00:09:32.795 --> 00:09:35.157 Non opposed, motion passes. 00:09:35.157 --> 00:09:39.830 Don't have anything on 27, 00:09:39.830 --> 00:09:43.181 save 28 till the end of our programming. 00:09:43.181 --> 00:09:48.181 Brings us to 29, I believe Commissioner Cobos 00:09:48.227 --> 00:09:49.864 has an update for us. 00:09:49.864 --> 00:09:50.967 All right, thank you, Chairman Lake. 00:09:50.967 --> 00:09:52.760 Just wanted to note that the ERCOT Board of Directors 00:09:52.760 --> 00:09:56.250 approved the long-term transmission infrastructure 00:09:56.250 --> 00:09:58.430 project for the Rio Grande Valley 00:09:58.430 --> 00:10:01.680 at this past Board meeting on December 10th, 00:10:01.680 --> 00:10:04.120 the project has been deemed critical for reliability 00:10:04.120 --> 00:10:07.190 by ERCOT and therefore the Commission will have to approve 00:10:07.190 --> 00:10:09.616 the CCN applications once they're filed before us 00:10:09.616 --> 00:10:12.900 on an expedited basis within 180 days 00:10:12.900 --> 00:10:14.193 of the CCN filing date. 00:10:15.180 --> 00:10:19.300 This longterm infrastructure project is very important 00:10:19.300 --> 00:10:20.570 and the party should file, 00:10:20.570 --> 00:10:22.810 I would strongly encourage the parties to file 00:10:22.810 --> 00:10:25.560 their CCN applications as soon as possible. 00:10:25.560 --> 00:10:27.210 And in that due course, 00:10:27.210 --> 00:10:30.293 I would like the relevant parties to file a progress report 00:10:30.293 --> 00:10:33.150 on January 20th in this project that provides 00:10:33.150 --> 00:10:34.920 us with an estimated timeframe on when they will 00:10:34.920 --> 00:10:38.184 be filing their CCN applications for this project. 00:10:38.184 --> 00:10:41.130 This project must stay on track to be energized 00:10:41.130 --> 00:10:43.575 by December, 2026. 00:10:43.575 --> 00:10:47.550 Finally, this longterm transmission infrastructure project 00:10:47.550 --> 00:10:49.560 together with the new second circuit 00:10:49.560 --> 00:10:51.590 and close the loop transmission facilities 00:10:51.590 --> 00:10:53.129 that were ordered by the Commission this fall, 00:10:53.129 --> 00:10:56.016 will provide much needed, long awaited reliability 00:10:56.016 --> 00:10:58.832 and resiliency in the Rio Grande Valley in the state. 00:10:58.832 --> 00:11:01.700 Thank you, ma'am. 00:11:01.700 --> 00:11:04.990 It is hard to understate the magnitude of this project 00:11:04.990 --> 00:11:09.130 and the speed at which you have moved it forward. 00:11:09.130 --> 00:11:10.266 So thank you for that leadership. 00:11:10.266 --> 00:11:12.156 I know these are long lift projects, 00:11:12.156 --> 00:11:17.156 but I wanna make sure that the importance of this project 00:11:18.578 --> 00:11:23.470 is not fade away and this is a huge, huge project. 00:11:23.470 --> 00:11:26.203 Thank you for taking the leadership role on this. 00:11:28.110 --> 00:11:28.943 Commissioner McAdams. 00:11:28.943 --> 00:11:32.328 Oh, I would just like to commend you Commissioner 00:11:32.328 --> 00:11:34.116 for leading on this. 00:11:34.116 --> 00:11:37.840 I'd like to highlight this just on behalf of myself for 00:11:37.840 --> 00:11:41.330 the public, this is an entire region 00:11:41.330 --> 00:11:43.110 of the state of Texas that will 00:11:43.110 --> 00:11:47.160 have a large scale critical piece of infrastructure built 00:11:47.160 --> 00:11:49.902 over the next six, seven years 00:11:49.902 --> 00:11:54.902 that will enhance and increase reliability of that region 00:11:54.910 --> 00:11:57.650 for decades to come and will provide a backbone 00:11:57.650 --> 00:12:02.650 of resiliency in a natural disaster prone area. 00:12:03.820 --> 00:12:06.620 This will benefit all consumers as result 00:12:06.620 --> 00:12:09.880 especially the people of the Rio Grande Valley. 00:12:09.880 --> 00:12:13.483 And this is not inexpensive. 00:12:14.320 --> 00:12:16.350 This is gonna cost everyone equally, 00:12:16.350 --> 00:12:17.921 but it's well worth it. 00:12:17.921 --> 00:12:20.518 I think this is a testament to the work of ERCOT 00:12:20.518 --> 00:12:23.232 and the Commission in trying to, 00:12:23.232 --> 00:12:26.030 as some of the public comments said earlier, 00:12:26.030 --> 00:12:28.040 watch out for the public interest. 00:12:28.040 --> 00:12:29.040 That's what we're trying to do. 00:12:29.040 --> 00:12:29.873 That's our mission. 00:12:29.873 --> 00:12:32.020 So appreciate your work, ma'am. 00:12:32.020 --> 00:12:33.020 Thank you so much. 00:12:35.100 --> 00:12:36.153 I would- 00:12:36.153 --> 00:12:37.197 Thoughts on transmission, general? 00:12:37.197 --> 00:12:40.558 Just, you know vegetation management of course. 00:12:40.558 --> 00:12:43.641 (everyone laughing) 00:12:44.520 --> 00:12:46.020 Thank you, Commissioner. 00:12:46.020 --> 00:12:47.780 I think, you know, having this authority 00:12:47.780 --> 00:12:49.850 to order transmission is important. 00:12:49.850 --> 00:12:51.580 It's an important tool in our toolbox. 00:12:51.580 --> 00:12:53.710 It's an important thing that we need to use 00:12:53.710 --> 00:12:55.796 to make this system reliable looking forward, 00:12:55.796 --> 00:12:58.250 as opposed to just-in-time transmission. 00:12:58.250 --> 00:13:00.692 And as we give ERCOT more tools with implementing 00:13:00.692 --> 00:13:03.510 the economic transmission language 00:13:03.510 --> 00:13:06.630 that the legislature passed, 00:13:06.630 --> 00:13:09.290 we'll hopefully be able to look ahead, 00:13:09.290 --> 00:13:11.119 look ahead of the headlights, rather than just to them, 00:13:11.119 --> 00:13:12.960 to the edge. 00:13:12.960 --> 00:13:15.500 And that will give ERCOT and the market tenacity 00:13:15.500 --> 00:13:17.900 to really get, really see what needs to be done 00:13:17.900 --> 00:13:19.650 for the good of the market before we get 00:13:19.650 --> 00:13:21.540 to the edge of that system. 00:13:21.540 --> 00:13:23.340 So I commend you, thank you. 00:13:23.340 --> 00:13:25.524 And look forward to more of these. 00:13:25.524 --> 00:13:29.018 Yeah, I look forward, 00:13:29.018 --> 00:13:31.540 very glad you laid out the timetable you did 00:13:31.540 --> 00:13:33.933 and look forward to continuing that. 00:13:33.933 --> 00:13:35.212 Sure, thank you so much. 00:13:35.212 --> 00:13:38.866 Don't think we have anything on items 30 00:13:38.866 --> 00:13:43.866 through 37 to bring us to an update from our ED in 38. 00:13:45.220 --> 00:13:46.812 Thank you, Mr. Chairman and Commissioners, 00:13:46.812 --> 00:13:48.722 just two quick updates this afternoon. 00:13:48.722 --> 00:13:52.395 First in regards to the Mapping Committee that I chair, 00:13:52.395 --> 00:13:55.960 we're having our last meeting of the year tomorrow, 00:13:55.960 --> 00:13:59.210 where we will approve the statutorily required 00:13:59.210 --> 00:14:01.690 mapping report, it's due January 1st. 00:14:01.690 --> 00:14:05.120 We will get that published on our website 00:14:05.120 --> 00:14:07.926 before the end of the year and sent out to the Governor 00:14:07.926 --> 00:14:11.463 and the legislature, and also file that in project 52404. 00:14:12.410 --> 00:14:14.060 And then as I've spoken about before, 00:14:14.060 --> 00:14:15.765 our January meeting is gonna be a public meeting. 00:14:15.765 --> 00:14:17.570 We're gonna hold it in this room. 00:14:17.570 --> 00:14:19.302 It's gonna be broadcast on Texas Admin, 00:14:19.302 --> 00:14:21.770 and we're gonna run it very similar to the way 00:14:21.770 --> 00:14:23.910 that you all run work sessions. 00:14:23.910 --> 00:14:25.640 We're gonna get reports from our different project teams 00:14:25.640 --> 00:14:27.235 go over the report. 00:14:27.235 --> 00:14:30.181 And what I would ask from the public or anyone interested, 00:14:30.181 --> 00:14:32.227 if you have comments you wanna file related 00:14:32.227 --> 00:14:34.557 to our Mapping Committee and any of the work 00:14:34.557 --> 00:14:37.203 we're doing, file them in project 52404 00:14:37.203 --> 00:14:38.683 so that we can see them. 00:14:39.840 --> 00:14:42.560 And then the second thing is something I was asked 00:14:42.560 --> 00:14:43.393 to do by staff. 00:14:43.393 --> 00:14:45.446 So as you are aware, we passed rules 00:14:45.446 --> 00:14:48.610 and so did the Railroad Commission back in November relating 00:14:48.610 --> 00:14:50.248 to reliability and continuity of service 00:14:50.248 --> 00:14:52.495 and critical designation of natural gas infrastructure. 00:14:52.495 --> 00:14:56.080 And those rules set up a process 00:14:56.080 --> 00:14:58.733 to designate natural gas critical facilities. 00:14:58.733 --> 00:15:01.750 And so just to be able to ease the administration 00:15:01.750 --> 00:15:04.010 of that sharing of information, 00:15:04.010 --> 00:15:06.098 because the rules require operators of critical natural gas 00:15:06.098 --> 00:15:11.098 to provide customer information by January 15th to, 00:15:11.480 --> 00:15:14.150 via their electric utilities and to ERCOT. 00:15:14.150 --> 00:15:17.129 We've opened a project 52964 00:15:17.129 --> 00:15:19.530 to put all of that contact information in. 00:15:19.530 --> 00:15:21.820 And so what we're asking is that utilities 00:15:21.820 --> 00:15:23.530 put their contact information and file it 00:15:23.530 --> 00:15:25.068 in that project by December 29th, 00:15:25.068 --> 00:15:28.570 so that we can get that posted by January 3rd. 00:15:28.570 --> 00:15:30.172 Always appreciate streamlining processes, 00:15:30.172 --> 00:15:31.390 especially this one. 00:15:31.390 --> 00:15:32.350 Yes, sir, we want people to be able 00:15:32.350 --> 00:15:33.950 to find that information easily. 00:15:34.820 --> 00:15:35.930 Thank you very much. 00:15:35.930 --> 00:15:36.763 That's all I have, thank you, sir. 00:15:36.763 --> 00:15:37.596 Any questions or comments for Thomas? 00:15:37.596 --> 00:15:38.429 No, sir. 00:15:38.429 --> 00:15:39.951 No. 00:15:39.951 --> 00:15:41.690 All right, well that concludes the business 00:15:41.690 --> 00:15:44.080 on 38, 39 and 40. 00:15:44.080 --> 00:15:47.050 I don't think we have any business which will bring 00:15:47.050 --> 00:15:52.050 us back to item 28, project number 52373 00:15:56.730 --> 00:16:01.730 which is the last piece of business for this meeting today. 00:16:03.920 --> 00:16:08.920 As we all know, and we've heard multiple times, 00:16:11.110 --> 00:16:15.320 that devastating event in February 00:16:15.320 --> 00:16:19.163 was a seismic part of Texas history. 00:16:21.050 --> 00:16:22.890 And in response to that, the legislature 00:16:22.890 --> 00:16:25.670 and the Governor passed landmark reform 00:16:25.670 --> 00:16:28.806 to address the problems that were made apparent 00:16:28.806 --> 00:16:33.340 in that extreme weather event. 00:16:33.340 --> 00:16:36.380 We, as the Commission received clear direction 00:16:36.380 --> 00:16:40.616 in SB3 to conduct a wholesale review of the ERCOT Market 00:16:40.616 --> 00:16:43.961 to move away from the crisis-based business model 00:16:43.961 --> 00:16:48.961 and to redesign as needed our market 00:16:51.050 --> 00:16:54.463 to ensure a resilient, reliable grid. 00:16:55.740 --> 00:16:59.903 We started this process as new Commissioners in June. 00:17:01.280 --> 00:17:03.510 Commissioner Cobos joined later in the summer, 00:17:03.510 --> 00:17:05.673 and then Commissioner Glotfelty. 00:17:05.673 --> 00:17:09.450 Starting in June, we as a Commission 00:17:09.450 --> 00:17:13.450 have directed significant operational reforms at ERCOT 00:17:13.450 --> 00:17:16.570 that made an immediate impact in improving reliability 00:17:16.570 --> 00:17:18.500 going into last summer, 00:17:18.500 --> 00:17:21.130 we've conducted almost a dozen public work sessions 00:17:21.130 --> 00:17:24.690 to engage with stakeholders and the public in this room 00:17:24.690 --> 00:17:26.900 with all Commissioners present, with staff support, 00:17:26.900 --> 00:17:30.590 with ERCOT present, we have received thousands of pages 00:17:30.590 --> 00:17:32.316 of comments from stakeholders 00:17:32.316 --> 00:17:34.993 and members of the general public. 00:17:36.690 --> 00:17:41.597 And today, at the end of this incredibly intense process, 00:17:43.360 --> 00:17:46.180 we're discussing, and I hope to deliver 00:17:46.180 --> 00:17:48.463 a blueprint for market redesign. 00:17:50.320 --> 00:17:52.490 Early on, I think we all realized 00:17:52.490 --> 00:17:55.400 that our market has been historically focused 00:17:55.400 --> 00:17:58.253 on affordability first and reliability second. 00:17:59.100 --> 00:18:04.100 Reliability moving up in the ranks of priorities. 00:18:06.200 --> 00:18:08.140 In fairness to our predecessors, 00:18:08.140 --> 00:18:10.430 the current market design was put in place 00:18:10.430 --> 00:18:13.710 before intermittent renewables were so prevalent, 00:18:13.710 --> 00:18:15.820 they introduced a new operational challenge, 00:18:15.820 --> 00:18:19.943 new volatility and vulnerabilities to our market. 00:18:20.960 --> 00:18:22.600 Texas has plenty of generation 00:18:23.492 --> 00:18:26.160 but that can vanish when the wind doesn't blow 00:18:26.160 --> 00:18:27.860 and the sun doesn't shine, 00:18:27.860 --> 00:18:31.073 which leaves us with a very thin reserve margin. 00:18:32.010 --> 00:18:34.250 And we've seen that at different points 00:18:34.250 --> 00:18:35.533 over the last six months. 00:18:37.150 --> 00:18:39.870 We, as a Commission have worked hard to acknowledge 00:18:39.870 --> 00:18:42.203 the pros and cons of all generator types. 00:18:44.010 --> 00:18:47.140 The self-contained supply chain of wind and solar 00:18:47.140 --> 00:18:49.080 is a tremendous feature. 00:18:49.080 --> 00:18:51.813 Unfortunately, we can't turn the wind on 00:18:51.813 --> 00:18:53.863 and make the sun shine. 00:18:55.550 --> 00:18:57.050 There are plenty of well known vulnerabilities 00:18:57.050 --> 00:18:59.500 in thermal dispatchable generators, 00:18:59.500 --> 00:19:01.243 but one of their features is that 00:19:01.243 --> 00:19:03.490 they can be turned on at command. 00:19:03.490 --> 00:19:07.770 And our effort has largely been to capture the benefits 00:19:07.770 --> 00:19:12.770 of each type while mitigating the detractions. 00:19:14.840 --> 00:19:17.054 The bottom line, I think we all agree 00:19:17.054 --> 00:19:21.470 is to provide economic rewards in our market structure 00:19:21.470 --> 00:19:25.120 for the desired output and the desired capabilities, 00:19:25.120 --> 00:19:27.973 moving revenues to reliable sources of power. 00:19:29.040 --> 00:19:32.710 And when we say reliable and dispatchable, I think, 00:19:32.710 --> 00:19:34.434 it's fair for all of us that we mean 00:19:34.434 --> 00:19:36.660 more than just thermal, we mean batteries. 00:19:36.660 --> 00:19:38.790 We've been doing renewables partnered with batteries, 00:19:38.790 --> 00:19:42.455 hydrogen, hydro-generation, biomass, and most importantly, 00:19:42.455 --> 00:19:47.090 accountable demand response. 00:19:47.090 --> 00:19:49.326 And a big part of this effort is quantifying 00:19:49.326 --> 00:19:54.326 and assigning value to those demand response capabilities 00:19:54.680 --> 00:19:56.330 that we know we have in our grid. 00:19:58.890 --> 00:20:01.633 We spoken a lot about being technology agnostic, 00:20:02.970 --> 00:20:05.093 and it's a principle I think we're adhering to, 00:20:05.093 --> 00:20:08.660 we're gonna put the economics out there 00:20:08.660 --> 00:20:12.990 and let the marketplace deliver the best technology 00:20:12.990 --> 00:20:16.377 at any moment in time to deliver reliability 00:20:16.377 --> 00:20:18.660 for our citizens. 00:20:18.660 --> 00:20:21.460 We've always known there was not gonna be one silver bullet 00:20:21.460 --> 00:20:24.670 to solve all these, but rather a combination 00:20:24.670 --> 00:20:26.070 of different changes needed. 00:20:26.960 --> 00:20:30.180 The market redesign blueprint that was published 00:20:30.180 --> 00:20:31.740 by staff on December 6th 00:20:31.740 --> 00:20:36.740 and you all have all seen is based on reliability 00:20:37.040 --> 00:20:38.576 and accountability. 00:20:38.576 --> 00:20:41.173 As seen in that memo, 00:20:43.310 --> 00:20:46.280 this proposed blueprint will be deployed in two phases. 00:20:46.280 --> 00:20:48.214 The phase immediately actionable items 00:20:48.214 --> 00:20:52.260 will be implemented at various points throughout 2022, 00:20:52.260 --> 00:20:55.023 some immediately on January 1st, 00:20:56.350 --> 00:20:59.010 the longer term market reforms will be more finely tuned 00:20:59.010 --> 00:21:01.210 and implemented over the next several years. 00:21:04.050 --> 00:21:05.150 Texans shouldn't have to worry 00:21:05.150 --> 00:21:07.926 about whether they can power their lives 00:21:07.926 --> 00:21:11.798 or power our economy, when they flip the lights on, 00:21:11.798 --> 00:21:15.300 the lights should come on and these efforts go a long, 00:21:15.300 --> 00:21:17.250 long way to ensure that. 00:21:20.553 --> 00:21:23.213 With that, I'll open up for thought, comments. 00:21:27.620 --> 00:21:29.590 Sure, Chairman Lake, thank you so much 00:21:29.590 --> 00:21:34.590 for your views and statements on this very important issues 00:21:35.520 --> 00:21:36.400 that are before us today. 00:21:36.400 --> 00:21:39.507 For context, I think it's important for me to lay out 00:21:39.507 --> 00:21:42.336 that prior to serving as PUC Commissioner, 00:21:42.336 --> 00:21:44.140 I served as public counsel at 00:21:44.140 --> 00:21:45.650 the Office of Public Utility Council 00:21:45.650 --> 00:21:48.180 that is represents the residential 00:21:48.180 --> 00:21:49.753 and small commercial consumers of Texas. 00:21:49.753 --> 00:21:51.629 During Winter Storm Uri, 00:21:51.629 --> 00:21:55.650 our agency worked tirelessly to assist consumers 00:21:55.650 --> 00:21:59.430 during the storm, including getting oxygen 00:21:59.430 --> 00:22:04.390 to elderly Texans, getting water to assisted living centers, 00:22:04.390 --> 00:22:06.620 having to assist consumers to call 911. 00:22:06.620 --> 00:22:10.740 I bring that firsthand experience and perspective 00:22:10.740 --> 00:22:13.441 to the Commission as we address these important 00:22:13.441 --> 00:22:16.190 grid reforms today. 00:22:16.190 --> 00:22:17.391 After Winter Storm Uri 00:22:17.391 --> 00:22:20.020 the legislature acted SWIFTly to pass 00:22:20.020 --> 00:22:23.283 a comprehensive package of landmark legislation 00:22:23.283 --> 00:22:26.490 to address the issues experienced by Texans 00:22:26.490 --> 00:22:28.770 across the state during the storm 00:22:28.770 --> 00:22:32.690 Senate Bill Three alone that was passed by the legislature 00:22:32.690 --> 00:22:34.780 and signed into law by the Governor provides 00:22:34.780 --> 00:22:39.204 for sweeping reform of our ERCOT power grid. 00:22:39.204 --> 00:22:41.380 Pursuant to the direction of the Governor 00:22:41.380 --> 00:22:43.170 and the legislature over the course 00:22:43.170 --> 00:22:44.420 of the last several months, 00:22:44.420 --> 00:22:47.660 we have rolled up our sleeves and have worked hard 00:22:47.660 --> 00:22:49.960 to address the issues that were experienced by Texans 00:22:49.960 --> 00:22:51.900 during the winter storm. 00:22:51.900 --> 00:22:54.630 The Commission has diligently as Chairman Lake 00:22:54.630 --> 00:22:57.350 has duly noted, held many public workshops, 00:22:57.350 --> 00:22:59.660 has received thousands of pages of comments 00:22:59.660 --> 00:23:02.550 from stakeholders, experts and the public 00:23:02.550 --> 00:23:05.090 that have been very helpful in identifying actions 00:23:05.090 --> 00:23:07.530 that will provide the state with a spectrum 00:23:07.530 --> 00:23:10.670 of enhanced grid reliability and resiliency 00:23:10.670 --> 00:23:12.110 in the future. 00:23:12.110 --> 00:23:13.739 These important and calculated actions 00:23:13.739 --> 00:23:16.360 will help enhance grid reliability and resiliency 00:23:16.360 --> 00:23:18.146 by, as Chairman Lake noted, 00:23:18.146 --> 00:23:20.800 moving ERCOT away from operating the grid 00:23:20.800 --> 00:23:23.270 in a crisis-based manner, 00:23:23.270 --> 00:23:25.220 adding more tools to ERCOT's arsenal 00:23:25.220 --> 00:23:26.890 to help avoid conservation appeals 00:23:26.890 --> 00:23:28.339 and emergency conditions in the future 00:23:28.339 --> 00:23:31.180 and making generation transmission 00:23:31.180 --> 00:23:32.985 and customer demand site improvements. 00:23:32.985 --> 00:23:37.173 These SWIFT historic actions will help improve 00:23:37.173 --> 00:23:39.835 grid reliability and send a strong market signal 00:23:39.835 --> 00:23:43.204 for new and existing dispatchable generation investment 00:23:43.204 --> 00:23:44.483 in our state. 00:23:46.100 --> 00:23:47.220 Well put. 00:23:47.220 --> 00:23:48.800 Commissioner McAdams, I know you a memo 00:23:48.800 --> 00:23:50.900 follow on that, on the side. 00:23:50.900 --> 00:23:51.980 I do, sir. 00:23:51.980 --> 00:23:52.865 You had full. 00:23:52.865 --> 00:23:54.900 I have plenty of thoughts. 00:23:54.900 --> 00:23:55.733 Full agenda- 00:23:55.733 --> 00:23:57.227 Some of them helpful, some not. 00:23:57.227 --> 00:24:01.640 I would say to dovetail on comments about 00:24:01.640 --> 00:24:05.346 the broader blueprint as outlined by the staff memo 00:24:05.346 --> 00:24:08.193 and as reviewed by stakeholders. 00:24:09.100 --> 00:24:13.229 I believe that actions taken and affirmative actions 00:24:13.229 --> 00:24:16.280 or affirmative instructions given on the part 00:24:16.280 --> 00:24:18.138 of the Commission, as it relates to the blueprint, 00:24:18.138 --> 00:24:21.920 as Churchill said, this is not the end. 00:24:21.920 --> 00:24:24.240 This is only the end of the beginning. 00:24:24.240 --> 00:24:29.240 And our job moving forward is to provide continued 00:24:29.710 --> 00:24:33.571 affirmative instruction, hard deadlines for deliverables, 00:24:33.571 --> 00:24:38.395 public access, and oversight to a process 00:24:38.395 --> 00:24:43.023 that traditionally has been shrouded in market ambiguities. 00:24:44.810 --> 00:24:49.810 And this Commission along with ERCOT looks forward 00:24:50.880 --> 00:24:52.093 to the hard work ahead. 00:24:54.500 --> 00:24:57.566 We have trusted staff now in both entities 00:24:57.566 --> 00:25:02.540 that we can really make a difference for Texas 00:25:02.540 --> 00:25:04.740 and in a short amount of time. 00:25:04.740 --> 00:25:06.733 Great work has already been accomplished 00:25:06.733 --> 00:25:09.130 but great work is yet to be done 00:25:09.130 --> 00:25:11.180 and I look forward to that. 00:25:11.180 --> 00:25:13.417 As it relates to my memo, 00:25:13.417 --> 00:25:17.120 the memo as in the other workshops 00:25:17.120 --> 00:25:21.610 and open meetings, discusses a policy 00:25:21.610 --> 00:25:26.610 that relates to dispatchable interconnection prioritization 00:25:27.510 --> 00:25:31.050 or dispatchable resource interconnection prioritization. 00:25:31.050 --> 00:25:35.010 It has not deviated much from previous conversations, 00:25:35.010 --> 00:25:40.010 but it is the product of a concerted stakeholder feedback. 00:25:40.040 --> 00:25:42.792 And I believe it accommodates many of the concerns raised 00:25:42.792 --> 00:25:47.380 by industry stakeholders 00:25:47.380 --> 00:25:50.452 and those wires companies who have to actually implement 00:25:50.452 --> 00:25:52.150 the policy. 00:25:52.150 --> 00:25:54.410 I would like to come in Commissioner Glotfelty 00:25:54.410 --> 00:25:56.650 on his input in working with me on it. 00:25:56.650 --> 00:25:59.250 I think the outcome is a better outcome 00:25:59.250 --> 00:26:01.550 than it was originally. 00:26:01.550 --> 00:26:05.100 And I think I'll leave it at that, 00:26:05.100 --> 00:26:07.050 but let him sort of speak to his views 00:26:07.050 --> 00:26:09.570 on the memo and the policy outcome 00:26:09.570 --> 00:26:11.070 that we're seeking to achieve. 00:26:12.267 --> 00:26:15.740 Thank you, Commissioner. 00:26:15.740 --> 00:26:17.724 We each pat each other on the back a lot, you know, 00:26:17.724 --> 00:26:19.460 but we- 00:26:19.460 --> 00:26:20.920 Today is the day for it, it's almost Christmas. 00:26:20.920 --> 00:26:22.270 We brought the stakeholders in here 00:26:22.270 --> 00:26:24.823 and I think we had a robust discussion. 00:26:25.890 --> 00:26:29.190 I think there were some parts of this interconnection piece 00:26:29.190 --> 00:26:32.307 that were not understood, some by me, some by others. 00:26:32.307 --> 00:26:35.210 I think we highlighted that. 00:26:35.210 --> 00:26:36.830 I think your memo is fine. 00:26:36.830 --> 00:26:38.804 There were a couple of things that I wanted to point out. 00:26:38.804 --> 00:26:40.560 One of them is that, if you're 00:26:40.560 --> 00:26:41.830 in the interconnection process 00:26:41.830 --> 00:26:43.100 and you start to have problems 00:26:43.100 --> 00:26:44.380 that you've never seen before, 00:26:44.380 --> 00:26:45.605 it's incumbent upon you to let us know. 00:26:45.605 --> 00:26:46.460 That's correct. 00:26:46.460 --> 00:26:49.861 It is incumbent upon you all to tell us what the issue is 00:26:49.861 --> 00:26:52.520 and why it has changed and when it changed, 00:26:52.520 --> 00:26:54.180 we don't want that to happen, 00:26:54.180 --> 00:26:58.180 but we do dispatchable resources as the chairman suggested 00:26:58.180 --> 00:26:59.990 are not just one kind of resource, 00:26:59.990 --> 00:27:01.550 but there are a lot of resources. 00:27:01.550 --> 00:27:03.680 It's an operating characteristic that we want. 00:27:03.680 --> 00:27:07.230 So as the transmission owners in ERCOT 00:27:07.230 --> 00:27:09.366 continue to look at these resources 00:27:09.366 --> 00:27:11.828 and how they go through the screening study process 00:27:11.828 --> 00:27:16.828 and so forth, it's my hope that no project gets slowed down. 00:27:17.760 --> 00:27:19.655 I think that was the commitment by ERCOT 00:27:19.655 --> 00:27:23.210 that no project will go beyond the timelines 00:27:23.210 --> 00:27:25.396 that are already existing in their rules 00:27:25.396 --> 00:27:27.250 or in their protocols. 00:27:27.250 --> 00:27:30.228 And that's important that we give certainty in that space, 00:27:30.228 --> 00:27:33.053 to those who are willing to invest money in our state. 00:27:34.220 --> 00:27:35.891 I would like to highlight that the goal 00:27:35.891 --> 00:27:37.920 of the PUC is not fine 00:27:37.920 --> 00:27:42.020 but we'll settle for it now and make positive headway. 00:27:42.020 --> 00:27:45.120 I also wanna highlight that this policy does work 00:27:45.120 --> 00:27:49.865 as a consistent approach to the vast untapped resources 00:27:49.865 --> 00:27:52.520 that the policy that Commissioner Cobos 00:27:52.520 --> 00:27:55.859 has been working on may unlock for the people of Texas, 00:27:55.859 --> 00:27:58.724 meaning that as we invest in critical infrastructure, 00:27:58.724 --> 00:28:00.750 in building out that infrastructure 00:28:00.750 --> 00:28:02.830 that's gonna serve future generations, 00:28:02.830 --> 00:28:04.624 it will unlock areas of the state 00:28:04.624 --> 00:28:07.720 that will unleash untapped, renewable resources 00:28:07.720 --> 00:28:09.570 or dispatchable resources. 00:28:09.570 --> 00:28:10.403 And the policy enshrined 00:28:10.403 --> 00:28:14.460 in the memo helps provide direction and clarity 00:28:14.460 --> 00:28:16.670 for those organizations that are responsible 00:28:16.670 --> 00:28:18.570 for absorbing that and interconnecting it 00:28:18.570 --> 00:28:21.250 and making all these things work together. 00:28:21.250 --> 00:28:25.313 So I believe it's consistent with the blueprint approach. 00:28:26.880 --> 00:28:30.080 Well put, by both gentlemen. 00:28:30.080 --> 00:28:33.199 And I think as a first step in this, 00:28:33.199 --> 00:28:36.780 I would be comfortable directing ERCOT 00:28:36.780 --> 00:28:40.223 to implement the framework laid out in your memo. 00:28:41.070 --> 00:28:42.720 I would happily, so moved, yes, sir. 00:28:42.720 --> 00:28:43.720 I agree and thank you, 00:28:43.720 --> 00:28:45.930 Commissioner McAdams and Commissioner Glotfelty 00:28:45.930 --> 00:28:48.840 for your work and leadership on this issue. 00:28:48.840 --> 00:28:52.050 Yes, second, those things, 00:28:52.050 --> 00:28:56.170 a lot of work goes into a very few short few minutes 00:28:56.170 --> 00:28:58.256 on the diocese, but thank you. 00:28:58.256 --> 00:29:01.610 Let me, we want certainty here. 00:29:01.610 --> 00:29:02.760 We don't want uncertainty. 00:29:02.760 --> 00:29:04.740 This is just got a lot of uncertainty in the market 00:29:04.740 --> 00:29:07.215 and I think what Commissioner McAdams and I have, 00:29:07.215 --> 00:29:09.360 we have come to an agreement on 00:29:09.360 --> 00:29:11.558 that this should provide certainty 00:29:11.558 --> 00:29:14.887 but if uncertainty prevails we come back- 00:29:14.887 --> 00:29:19.618 We can address it, we can address it. 00:29:19.618 --> 00:29:23.430 Well put, ERCOT, I know y'all have had 00:29:23.430 --> 00:29:24.647 a lot of communication on this. 00:29:24.647 --> 00:29:29.647 I think y'all have your marching orders pretty clearly 00:29:29.885 --> 00:29:33.920 consider it so directed from this Commission. 00:29:33.920 --> 00:29:35.070 Yes, thank you. 00:29:37.510 --> 00:29:42.510 With that, any other thoughts, comments on the blueprint? 00:29:43.540 --> 00:29:48.540 I know ERCOT, PUC staff, Commission staff 00:29:49.390 --> 00:29:50.700 in each of the Commissions, 00:29:50.700 --> 00:29:53.250 Commissions office had put a lot of work into this. 00:29:54.260 --> 00:29:58.070 I've got a proposed motion's pretty long. 00:29:58.070 --> 00:29:59.740 That's a lot, you're gonna need a pen 00:29:59.740 --> 00:30:00.647 to write this down 00:30:02.280 --> 00:30:04.160 but contains a lot of direction to ERCOT 00:30:04.160 --> 00:30:07.160 on general framework of implementation. 00:30:07.160 --> 00:30:09.673 I think each of your offices have been updated on. 00:30:10.515 --> 00:30:11.348 I got you covered. 00:30:11.348 --> 00:30:12.810 Are we gonna talk about that afterwards 00:30:12.810 --> 00:30:15.120 or are we gonna have a little bit more discussion 00:30:15.120 --> 00:30:16.673 before you make the motion? 00:30:16.673 --> 00:30:19.220 We can, I'm happy that I was gonna lay it out. 00:30:19.220 --> 00:30:20.720 There you go. 00:30:20.720 --> 00:30:24.493 Yeah, put it out there for discussion piece by piece. 00:30:25.354 --> 00:30:29.850 As you all know, we've got phase one and phase two, 00:30:29.850 --> 00:30:31.350 should we adopt the blueprint. 00:30:33.830 --> 00:30:38.830 That includes a lot of work for ERCOT, as we all know. 00:30:40.040 --> 00:30:41.850 So I would propose we direct ERCOT 00:30:41.850 --> 00:30:44.798 to take certain blueprint actions immediately 00:30:44.798 --> 00:30:47.950 and then ask them to report back on implement, 00:30:47.950 --> 00:30:50.560 needs for implementation and status of implementation 00:30:50.560 --> 00:30:53.943 on various other elements as we go through progress, 00:30:55.630 --> 00:30:57.774 I would vote to adopt, I would ask for a vote 00:30:57.774 --> 00:31:02.070 to adopt the December 6th filing as the Commission 00:31:02.070 --> 00:31:04.311 that's market redesign blueprint 00:31:04.311 --> 00:31:09.160 and ask that, that motion include a proposal to, 00:31:09.160 --> 00:31:11.051 or a direction to ERCOT, to implement 00:31:11.051 --> 00:31:14.993 phase one RDC changes by January 1st, 2022, 00:31:17.290 --> 00:31:21.820 implement all other phase one actions under ERCOT control 00:31:21.820 --> 00:31:22.970 as soon as practicable, 00:31:26.220 --> 00:31:29.380 evaluate phase one of the blueprint 00:31:29.380 --> 00:31:32.440 and file a report on this project by January 10th, 00:31:32.440 --> 00:31:33.993 with the following information, 00:31:35.170 --> 00:31:37.610 project plan for implementing all phase one items, 00:31:37.610 --> 00:31:42.234 including which items would start first 00:31:42.234 --> 00:31:44.770 and how the implementation would overlap, 00:31:44.770 --> 00:31:48.041 including opportunities for synergies of implementation 00:31:48.041 --> 00:31:53.041 and constraints created by dual implementation. 00:31:58.094 --> 00:31:59.230 Also with that information, 00:31:59.230 --> 00:32:00.840 request a description of changes 00:32:00.840 --> 00:32:02.900 to ERCOT's information technology systems 00:32:02.900 --> 00:32:06.223 for implementing each action item where it's applicable, 00:32:07.120 --> 00:32:09.970 include an estimate of the amount of time 00:32:09.970 --> 00:32:12.219 each action item will take to implement, 00:32:12.219 --> 00:32:15.250 including estimates of significant milestones 00:32:15.250 --> 00:32:18.440 within each action item where applicable, 00:32:18.440 --> 00:32:20.640 milestones and timelines, Commissioner Cobos 00:32:21.580 --> 00:32:24.092 as with your Rio Grande Valley project, 00:32:24.092 --> 00:32:26.100 a description of human resource needs 00:32:26.100 --> 00:32:27.890 to implement phase one action items 00:32:27.890 --> 00:32:29.680 including information on how the progress 00:32:29.680 --> 00:32:32.598 of current ERCOT projects and activities may be impacted 00:32:32.598 --> 00:32:34.970 by implementation of these items. 00:32:34.970 --> 00:32:37.120 I suspect we'll hear about the settlements. 00:32:38.920 --> 00:32:42.000 Also include a description of any impediments 00:32:42.000 --> 00:32:45.640 to the implementation of the phase one action items 00:32:45.640 --> 00:32:47.063 with recommendations on how to remove 00:32:47.063 --> 00:32:49.193 or mitigate those impediments. 00:32:53.850 --> 00:32:56.080 Finally, I would direct ERCOT, 00:32:56.080 --> 00:32:58.055 I would ask that the motion direct ERCOT 00:32:58.055 --> 00:33:01.640 to prepare NPRRs to facilitate these directives 00:33:01.640 --> 00:33:06.369 for the Commission's review prior to filing the report 00:33:06.369 --> 00:33:08.847 with us to ensure those NPRRs capture 00:33:08.847 --> 00:33:11.283 the Commission's intent. 00:33:12.850 --> 00:33:14.900 That's largely phase one, phase two, 00:33:14.900 --> 00:33:19.170 I would ask that not be included in this formal memo, 00:33:19.170 --> 00:33:22.089 that be as I think each of you all have been briefed on, 00:33:22.089 --> 00:33:26.682 coordinated with staff to work with ERCOT, 00:33:26.682 --> 00:33:29.460 to identify the best course of action 00:33:29.460 --> 00:33:33.060 for implementation with both existing 00:33:33.060 --> 00:33:34.623 and potentially new resources. 00:33:35.780 --> 00:33:38.470 But that, I don't think that does not require 00:33:38.470 --> 00:33:41.603 a formal action from the diocese. 00:33:42.460 --> 00:33:45.853 That's a lot, you get back through different pieces of that. 00:33:47.477 --> 00:33:50.011 Can we take phase one first and. 00:33:50.011 --> 00:33:51.650 Sure. 00:33:51.650 --> 00:33:53.200 Okay. 00:33:53.200 --> 00:33:58.200 Just, so I think just from me as laid out, 00:34:02.010 --> 00:34:04.273 I'm good with process. 00:34:05.300 --> 00:34:10.300 It looks like we get to reengage and as per, 00:34:11.180 --> 00:34:13.026 it's somewhat familiar to us, 00:34:13.026 --> 00:34:16.960 somewhat familiar as securitization was, 00:34:16.960 --> 00:34:20.820 a plan is filed on implementation or at least brought back 00:34:20.820 --> 00:34:25.410 to ensure that it captures all, how each of our offices 00:34:25.410 --> 00:34:29.570 see the mechanics of implementation moving forward 00:34:29.570 --> 00:34:32.570 and to address any of those questions we may have 00:34:32.570 --> 00:34:36.199 so that we made an answer to them for further direction. 00:34:36.199 --> 00:34:37.853 That's the way I hear it. 00:34:39.040 --> 00:34:39.873 Short way to say this as, 00:34:39.873 --> 00:34:41.801 what are the decision points you need, ERCOT? 00:34:41.801 --> 00:34:43.817 Bring those back to us and we'll answer. 00:34:43.817 --> 00:34:45.723 And we readdress. 00:34:45.723 --> 00:34:50.723 So to me, I think as per the memo, 00:34:52.650 --> 00:34:55.370 consistent with all the near-term approaches 00:34:55.370 --> 00:34:57.660 we believe were absolutely necessary, 00:34:57.660 --> 00:35:01.075 this is a affirmative first step to take. 00:35:01.075 --> 00:35:03.423 It's a hell of a major step. 00:35:04.366 --> 00:35:09.366 I agree, I think that what gets lost in this 00:35:11.310 --> 00:35:15.020 is that these are massive changes in the market, 00:35:15.020 --> 00:35:18.385 they cost a lot of money and, you know, 00:35:18.385 --> 00:35:22.240 Texans pay for grid reliability in different ways. 00:35:22.240 --> 00:35:24.253 They're paying for it this way and we need to deliver, 00:35:24.253 --> 00:35:26.126 we need the industry to deliver 00:35:26.126 --> 00:35:30.438 that we are expecting a more reliable system, 00:35:30.438 --> 00:35:34.781 the costs, the timing, the certainty, 00:35:34.781 --> 00:35:39.330 all of these things are thrown into disarray 00:35:39.330 --> 00:35:42.660 when this Commission decides to try to act on something, 00:35:42.660 --> 00:35:45.230 whether it's legislatively driven or on our own accord, 00:35:45.230 --> 00:35:48.797 and it's incumbent upon us to implement those quickly 00:35:48.797 --> 00:35:52.090 so that the industry can get back to certainty. 00:35:52.090 --> 00:35:54.280 With certainty comes investment, 00:35:54.280 --> 00:35:58.352 with uncertainty we leave the door open for questions 00:35:58.352 --> 00:36:03.352 and folks, those with capital resources likely do not invest 00:36:03.507 --> 00:36:05.110 during those times. 00:36:05.110 --> 00:36:07.070 And if there's anything that I believe 00:36:07.070 --> 00:36:08.940 that this Commission is trying to do 00:36:08.940 --> 00:36:13.490 and what ERCOT's trying to do, it's to pursue investment, 00:36:13.490 --> 00:36:15.673 whether that's investment in demand response, 00:36:15.673 --> 00:36:19.530 or dispatchable resources, thermal resources, 00:36:19.530 --> 00:36:22.028 or renewable resources, you know, that's what we need, 00:36:22.028 --> 00:36:24.227 but we need to provide that. 00:36:24.227 --> 00:36:29.050 So I'm very happy that we've done the ORDC 00:36:29.050 --> 00:36:32.860 and these phase one components, you know, 00:36:32.860 --> 00:36:34.950 I think we are, you know, 00:36:34.950 --> 00:36:37.384 we had the citizens come and talk to us before 00:36:37.384 --> 00:36:41.020 but I wish they had seen this memo, you know, 00:36:41.020 --> 00:36:44.430 number two, demand response, pursue market modifications, 00:36:44.430 --> 00:36:46.300 for demand response pricing. 00:36:46.300 --> 00:36:49.100 And this is as they said, for the people. 00:36:49.100 --> 00:36:52.140 We're talking about energy efficiency changes, 00:36:52.140 --> 00:36:54.250 that's what they asked for, for the people. 00:36:54.250 --> 00:36:56.483 These are all components of a market that are viable 00:36:56.483 --> 00:37:01.483 and valuable for companies and for people across the state. 00:37:01.610 --> 00:37:05.681 And I think that we've done some valuable things 00:37:05.681 --> 00:37:10.681 as we go forward, we just need to continue 00:37:11.160 --> 00:37:13.530 to think that we're not spending our own money, 00:37:13.530 --> 00:37:15.550 we're spending other people's money it's expensive, 00:37:15.550 --> 00:37:17.250 it's somebody else's money. 00:37:17.250 --> 00:37:20.130 And that as we develop these, 00:37:20.130 --> 00:37:22.355 we need to keep that first and foremost 00:37:22.355 --> 00:37:25.980 that it's someone else's money and we're using it 00:37:25.980 --> 00:37:28.093 to provide reliability everybody. 00:37:29.202 --> 00:37:33.460 Thank you, Commissioner Glotfelty 00:37:33.460 --> 00:37:37.040 and I agree that all the phase one items 00:37:37.040 --> 00:37:40.590 should be implemented as soon as possible with respect 00:37:40.590 --> 00:37:42.528 to ORDC, the operating reserve demand curve. 00:37:42.528 --> 00:37:47.339 I think I would give a little bit more specific direction 00:37:47.339 --> 00:37:49.430 to ERCOT to increase the MCL to 3000 effective 00:37:49.430 --> 00:37:51.530 January 1st, 2022. 00:37:51.530 --> 00:37:53.110 I think we have lowered the cap. 00:37:53.110 --> 00:37:57.000 We've already adopted the lower price cap 00:37:57.000 --> 00:37:58.461 of $5,000 per megawatt hour, 00:37:58.461 --> 00:38:01.540 but if we can give them that specific directive 00:38:01.540 --> 00:38:04.930 to increase the MCL to 3000 megawatts effective January 1st, 00:38:04.930 --> 00:38:06.000 I think, I believe Kanaan, 00:38:06.000 --> 00:38:08.067 that is the direction that y'all would need 00:38:08.067 --> 00:38:10.640 to get it done ASAP by January 1st. 00:38:10.640 --> 00:38:12.100 Yeah, that's in the directive, 00:38:12.100 --> 00:38:13.766 Okay. It's in the memo- 00:38:13.766 --> 00:38:15.319 Okay, great, great, great. Or the blueprint, yes. 00:38:15.319 --> 00:38:19.510 And yes, I echo, you know, 00:38:19.510 --> 00:38:22.120 many of the sentiments are a lot of very important actions 00:38:22.120 --> 00:38:23.817 in the phase one list, 00:38:23.817 --> 00:38:27.070 the from fuel product is tremendously important, 00:38:27.070 --> 00:38:29.300 that will provide greater liability resiliency 00:38:29.300 --> 00:38:33.163 in the future winter seasons pursuant to Senate Bill Three, 00:38:34.530 --> 00:38:36.560 a whole host of actions here that yes, 00:38:36.560 --> 00:38:38.109 that do involve demand response 00:38:38.109 --> 00:38:40.018 as Commissioner Glotfelty noted, 00:38:40.018 --> 00:38:44.280 involve the demand side by way of ERs, 00:38:44.280 --> 00:38:45.950 emergency response serve reform. 00:38:45.950 --> 00:38:48.770 That is a service that ensures 00:38:48.770 --> 00:38:52.660 and that load resources reduce demand the system 00:38:52.660 --> 00:38:54.203 to help maintain reliability. 00:38:56.070 --> 00:38:59.900 We will be looking at our PUC energy efficiency 00:39:00.810 --> 00:39:02.810 load management programs. 00:39:02.810 --> 00:39:06.330 And so all of those actions are our demand side focused. 00:39:06.330 --> 00:39:08.610 And I'm glad you raised that Commissioner Glotfelty, 00:39:08.610 --> 00:39:13.123 I think we heard a lot of expressions for, you know, 00:39:13.123 --> 00:39:15.730 the need to focus on the demand side as well. 00:39:15.730 --> 00:39:18.780 And there are a host of demand side improvements 00:39:18.780 --> 00:39:21.145 and enhancements that we are looking to address 00:39:21.145 --> 00:39:25.223 by way of our phase one action items. 00:39:27.600 --> 00:39:28.433 Well put. 00:39:33.590 --> 00:39:35.780 Hard to understate the breadth and depth 00:39:35.780 --> 00:39:40.780 of these phase one reforms and any other time, 00:39:41.880 --> 00:39:44.190 each of these would be considered remarkable on its own, 00:39:44.190 --> 00:39:47.303 and yes, Commissioner Glotfelty, these cost money, 00:39:48.420 --> 00:39:51.233 but nothing's more expensive than losing power. 00:39:53.090 --> 00:39:56.060 Mr. Chairman, just to support you on that. 00:39:56.060 --> 00:39:57.457 I think that's why it's important 00:39:57.457 --> 00:40:02.243 to articulate the breadth of the changes and modifications, 00:40:02.243 --> 00:40:06.565 the spectrum of tools that we will now have available 00:40:06.565 --> 00:40:10.146 at the completion of this over the, again, 00:40:10.146 --> 00:40:14.439 the next two years, subject to ERCOT feedback. 00:40:14.439 --> 00:40:18.176 And it also provides those mechanisms for the Commission 00:40:18.176 --> 00:40:20.690 and the representative government to be able to speak 00:40:20.690 --> 00:40:24.720 to the scale of these services so that again, 00:40:24.720 --> 00:40:27.876 we can address any contingency that should present itself 00:40:27.876 --> 00:40:30.640 in the foreseeable future in terms 00:40:30.640 --> 00:40:32.890 of electric reliability in Texas. 00:40:32.890 --> 00:40:36.804 So, you know, subject to any other feedback, 00:40:36.804 --> 00:40:38.613 I'd be happy to make your motion. 00:40:42.553 --> 00:40:43.386 You got everything you need 00:40:43.386 --> 00:40:44.232 or you want me to read that again? 00:40:44.232 --> 00:40:46.050 So, Steven, if you want me to try to articulate 00:40:46.050 --> 00:40:47.456 all this stuff. 00:40:47.456 --> 00:40:48.420 (speaker laughing) 00:40:48.420 --> 00:40:51.930 So I listened carefully to the chairman 00:40:51.930 --> 00:40:55.463 and have the things that he numerated. 00:40:56.412 --> 00:41:00.460 And if you want to make your motion to adopt that, 00:41:00.460 --> 00:41:02.860 I have what I need. 00:41:02.860 --> 00:41:07.860 I would move to direct based on the chairman's comments, 00:41:11.400 --> 00:41:16.400 reflective of Commissioner Cobos\ conversation 00:41:16.554 --> 00:41:21.554 and issue those directives to both PUC and ERCOT staff. 00:41:24.520 --> 00:41:25.691 We have a motion, is there a second? 00:41:25.691 --> 00:41:26.920 Second. 00:41:26.920 --> 00:41:28.150 All in favor say aye. 00:41:28.150 --> 00:41:29.647 Aye. 00:41:29.647 --> 00:41:32.169 Motion passes, non opposed. 00:41:32.169 --> 00:41:36.210 I made the wrong motion, didn't I, Steven? 00:41:36.210 --> 00:41:38.150 Well the directives said Commission staff, 00:41:38.150 --> 00:41:40.130 I thought I heard, we said we didn't need 00:41:40.130 --> 00:41:42.410 to take formal action on that and I'm not sure- 00:41:42.410 --> 00:41:43.510 Yeah, for phase one. 00:41:43.510 --> 00:41:46.130 Other than the staff's supposed to work with ERCOT 00:41:46.130 --> 00:41:46.963 on phase two. 00:41:46.963 --> 00:41:48.300 Well, then I withdraw those directive 00:41:48.300 --> 00:41:50.840 to Commission staff ERCOT on all. 00:41:50.840 --> 00:41:53.756 And, then remove and revote, please, sir. 00:41:53.756 --> 00:41:58.756 I move to, you've never follow Robert's rules. 00:42:00.150 --> 00:42:01.788 Come on, you gotta spit it out. 00:42:01.788 --> 00:42:02.621 (everyone laughing) 00:42:02.621 --> 00:42:07.170 You move like you just did with the exception 00:42:07.170 --> 00:42:10.090 of the directives to the Commission staff. 00:42:10.090 --> 00:42:10.923 Okay. 00:42:10.923 --> 00:42:12.760 There's a motion, Commissioner McAdams motion 00:42:12.760 --> 00:42:16.210 stands on the floor, less direction 00:42:16.210 --> 00:42:18.180 to Commission staff, awaiting a second. 00:42:18.180 --> 00:42:19.440 So moved. 00:42:19.440 --> 00:42:20.273 Second. 00:42:20.273 --> 00:42:21.330 All in favor say aye. 00:42:21.330 --> 00:42:22.760 Aye. 00:42:22.760 --> 00:42:24.789 None opposed, motion passes. 00:42:24.789 --> 00:42:26.130 (speakers laughing) 00:42:26.130 --> 00:42:28.003 You're making it hard for us today, Steven. 00:42:29.120 --> 00:42:34.120 All right, phase two, I didn't fully articulate that. 00:42:34.380 --> 00:42:39.380 I would ask for a motion to direct Commission staff 00:42:39.870 --> 00:42:43.723 to work with ERCOT, to get into, 00:42:43.723 --> 00:42:46.711 to recap, there's some big, big concepts 00:42:46.711 --> 00:42:51.711 to be explored and, or crystallized and implemented 00:42:53.559 --> 00:42:55.946 in phase two, load side reliability mechanism 00:42:55.946 --> 00:43:00.705 of some form based on the principles outlined in the memo 00:43:00.705 --> 00:43:03.440 and a backup reliability serve, 00:43:03.440 --> 00:43:05.143 backstop for liability service. 00:43:06.500 --> 00:43:11.110 These are more abstract concepts, and we all, 00:43:11.110 --> 00:43:13.630 we have all agreed to those principles, 00:43:13.630 --> 00:43:16.130 which is the most important part I would ask simply 00:43:16.130 --> 00:43:19.743 for and we know these are longer term reforms, 00:43:20.750 --> 00:43:25.230 but the most substantial ones we will make in the long run. 00:43:25.230 --> 00:43:28.720 I would ask simply at this point for Commission staff 00:43:28.720 --> 00:43:33.705 to work with ERCOT staff to have, 00:43:33.705 --> 00:43:38.705 to jointly develop the needed inputs specifications 00:43:44.090 --> 00:43:49.090 and quantification relevant metrics 00:43:49.620 --> 00:43:54.620 that ERCOT would need to build, 00:43:54.830 --> 00:43:57.640 design each of these two products 00:44:01.430 --> 00:44:02.990 and not, don't fill in the blanks, 00:44:02.990 --> 00:44:06.300 just tell us what are the specifications they need 00:44:06.300 --> 00:44:10.723 and then we can, and I'd ask for that by February 1st, 00:44:12.680 --> 00:44:13.603 February 15th? 00:44:15.026 --> 00:44:18.109 (everyone laughing) 00:44:23.578 --> 00:44:24.710 Yes, yes. 00:44:24.710 --> 00:44:26.740 March 1st? 00:44:26.740 --> 00:44:28.960 Let's let's target February 15th. 00:44:28.960 --> 00:44:30.890 Let's do target February 15. 00:44:30.890 --> 00:44:33.857 And if we see something else I'll ask for more time 00:44:33.857 --> 00:44:36.166 but I'd rather hold our feet to the fire. 00:44:36.166 --> 00:44:38.010 Yeah, me too. 00:44:38.010 --> 00:44:39.112 Agreed. 00:44:39.112 --> 00:44:40.980 There's a list of the specifications 00:44:40.980 --> 00:44:42.580 we need to build these products. 00:44:43.720 --> 00:44:45.770 At that point staff can synthesize that, 00:44:45.770 --> 00:44:47.836 bring that back to each of our offices for review, 00:44:47.836 --> 00:44:51.340 at which point we can reconvene and decide 00:44:51.340 --> 00:44:53.173 the best course forward. 00:44:54.090 --> 00:44:55.303 I agree, Chairman Lake, 00:44:55.303 --> 00:44:57.670 I think that is the best course forward. 00:44:57.670 --> 00:45:00.990 I would add and I think we're all in consensus here 00:45:00.990 --> 00:45:05.320 and agreement, I think both sides, you know, 00:45:05.320 --> 00:45:08.590 ERCOT can give us on the load side and the backstop side, 00:45:08.590 --> 00:45:10.820 a list of all the decision points, 00:45:10.820 --> 00:45:13.203 I think with respect to the backstop reliability service 00:45:13.203 --> 00:45:15.210 the parameters and the decision points 00:45:15.210 --> 00:45:16.450 are pretty clear cut already. 00:45:16.450 --> 00:45:18.030 I think we've been sort of looking at them. 00:45:18.030 --> 00:45:21.340 If there is a way as I have, you know, 00:45:21.340 --> 00:45:24.580 we've sort of looked at the backstop reliability service 00:45:24.580 --> 00:45:27.950 to serve as sort of a bridge if ERCOT, 00:45:27.950 --> 00:45:31.420 I think who's been ruling over these decision points 00:45:31.420 --> 00:45:32.253 a little bit more 00:45:32.253 --> 00:45:33.760 'cause I think they're more clearly defined 00:45:33.760 --> 00:45:38.760 if they can come back with those decision points, 00:45:39.210 --> 00:45:43.030 maybe first that way we can get the trucks rolling 00:45:43.030 --> 00:45:45.050 and get that going a little bit faster 00:45:45.050 --> 00:45:47.014 because I think time is of the essence in 2022 00:45:47.014 --> 00:45:49.333 with all the work that ERCOT has on their plate. 00:45:49.333 --> 00:45:53.390 If we can, you know, maybe get that out 00:45:53.390 --> 00:45:55.013 February 1st from ERCOT. 00:45:56.760 --> 00:45:57.727 We're back to February 1st. 00:45:57.727 --> 00:45:58.730 Oh, I'm sorry. 00:45:58.730 --> 00:46:01.360 Yes February 1st or even January, I think, 00:46:01.360 --> 00:46:02.870 there's, I mean, I think the parameters 00:46:02.870 --> 00:46:04.600 are pretty well laid out on that one 00:46:04.600 --> 00:46:07.280 in terms of what decision points you need from us. 00:46:07.280 --> 00:46:08.870 We may not be able to give you everything you need 00:46:08.870 --> 00:46:10.183 at once, but. 00:46:15.869 --> 00:46:17.630 (indistinct) 00:46:17.630 --> 00:46:20.450 So you're talking about the fuel service? 00:46:22.379 --> 00:46:23.680 Fuel backstop reliability service. 00:46:23.680 --> 00:46:26.130 Well, fuel is part of phase one 00:46:26.130 --> 00:46:28.680 and the backstop reliability service 00:46:28.680 --> 00:46:30.889 I think there are decision points that you would be looking 00:46:30.889 --> 00:46:35.600 from us to provide you as similar to the load side as well. 00:46:35.600 --> 00:46:39.500 However, if we, if you know, 00:46:39.500 --> 00:46:41.850 if we can give you some direction on that, 00:46:41.850 --> 00:46:43.460 'cause I think there's just more, 00:46:43.460 --> 00:46:45.620 clearly defined decision points at this point 00:46:45.620 --> 00:46:47.390 for the backup stop reliability services 00:46:47.390 --> 00:46:49.622 you discussed how to procure it, how much and all that, 00:46:49.622 --> 00:46:52.408 if we can start getting that rolling, 00:46:52.408 --> 00:46:56.248 that would be great. 00:46:56.248 --> 00:46:59.580 So I can try and get information on that one back 00:46:59.580 --> 00:47:01.149 to you February 1st or. 00:47:01.149 --> 00:47:03.430 (indistinct) 00:47:03.430 --> 00:47:07.740 As soon as, yes, that's hard to stop February 15th, 00:47:07.740 --> 00:47:10.404 but do start with backstop reliability service first 00:47:10.404 --> 00:47:12.500 and send that along as soon as humanly possible. 00:47:12.500 --> 00:47:14.099 Does that work? 00:47:14.099 --> 00:47:14.983 Yes, yes, sir, thank you so much. 00:47:14.983 --> 00:47:16.660 That's important that one goes first. 00:47:16.660 --> 00:47:19.713 That was part of the, probably put that first. 00:47:20.639 --> 00:47:22.180 Commissioners, If I may, 00:47:22.180 --> 00:47:27.180 perhaps we would like to set aside a time 00:47:27.620 --> 00:47:31.090 at each open meeting to provide an update 00:47:31.090 --> 00:47:34.534 on how these reports are progressing between staff 00:47:34.534 --> 00:47:37.693 and ERCOT and we can continue to post this item 00:47:37.693 --> 00:47:42.086 in the other meetings through the first quarter of the year. 00:47:42.086 --> 00:47:43.117 Excellent idea. 00:47:43.117 --> 00:47:45.015 Sounds great. 00:47:45.015 --> 00:47:45.932 The word? 00:47:47.345 --> 00:47:48.178 Sounds great, thank you 00:47:48.178 --> 00:47:49.844 and thank you for your consideration. Thank you, Kanaan. 00:47:52.910 --> 00:47:56.730 Thoughts on the proposed motion to direct ERCOT 00:47:56.730 --> 00:48:00.150 to bring us specs for phase two products 00:48:00.150 --> 00:48:05.000 and decision points about February 15th, 00:48:05.000 --> 00:48:07.600 given the longer-term nature of these 00:48:07.600 --> 00:48:10.560 and we can evaluate and move forward as a Commission 00:48:10.560 --> 00:48:14.143 at that point on best path for implementation. 00:48:15.900 --> 00:48:16.733 You want me to go? 00:48:16.733 --> 00:48:19.421 Yeah, or y'all can just say yes too. 00:48:19.421 --> 00:48:21.910 (speakers laughing) 00:48:21.910 --> 00:48:24.640 I think that I'm getting these questions to us 00:48:24.640 --> 00:48:25.913 soon is important. 00:48:27.554 --> 00:48:30.020 I wanna take a step back to our last meeting, 00:48:30.020 --> 00:48:34.587 I committed that I support the evaluation 00:48:34.587 --> 00:48:39.587 and the analysis necessary to look at a LSE obligation, 00:48:40.113 --> 00:48:42.740 a deck program. 00:48:42.740 --> 00:48:45.450 I am not sitting here saying that I support it 00:48:45.450 --> 00:48:48.060 a hundred percent because I don't know. 00:48:48.060 --> 00:48:50.240 I still don't have the analytical underpinnings 00:48:50.240 --> 00:48:52.570 of anything to say that it's the best program 00:48:52.570 --> 00:48:54.020 for reliability in the state 00:48:56.539 --> 00:48:58.040 or that it will solve the problems that we need 00:48:58.040 --> 00:48:59.960 to solve for reliability. 00:48:59.960 --> 00:49:02.789 So I understand we're gonna go ahead 00:49:02.789 --> 00:49:05.240 and we're going to study this 00:49:05.240 --> 00:49:07.470 and we're gonna try to understand 00:49:07.470 --> 00:49:11.480 the parameters associated with such implementation 00:49:11.480 --> 00:49:16.480 and do a deeper dive on the technical pieces for putting it, 00:49:16.790 --> 00:49:19.392 something like this in place, the impacts to consumers 00:49:19.392 --> 00:49:24.392 but to me, the vast majority of that is dependent upon 00:49:25.394 --> 00:49:30.394 an analytical model based analysis of what we want 00:49:33.280 --> 00:49:37.098 and with sensitivities around, 00:49:37.098 --> 00:49:39.860 sensitivities needed to show 00:49:39.860 --> 00:49:41.139 kind of those one-off scenarios. 00:49:41.139 --> 00:49:46.139 I believe that every market out there that has been 00:49:48.057 --> 00:49:52.362 contemplating these changes underpins their work 00:49:52.362 --> 00:49:57.010 in analytical value, valuable analytical work 00:49:57.010 --> 00:49:59.390 and I think we should do the same. 00:49:59.390 --> 00:50:03.300 To that end, I have had meetings with some 00:50:03.300 --> 00:50:08.300 of the nation's top modeling folks at our national labs 00:50:08.633 --> 00:50:13.633 and other places that have looked at different mechanisms 00:50:15.650 --> 00:50:17.890 within the load serving entity family, 00:50:17.890 --> 00:50:22.890 or the load serving entity family to see what works, 00:50:23.180 --> 00:50:26.530 what doesn't, kind of in accordance with our system. 00:50:26.530 --> 00:50:28.280 We will continue to work with them 00:50:28.280 --> 00:50:30.020 and see if there's a product that we can come up with 00:50:30.020 --> 00:50:33.900 and we can all discussion and have a bigger, 00:50:33.900 --> 00:50:34.900 robust discussion. 00:50:34.900 --> 00:50:39.900 But I just, I want to kind of set my compass to say, 00:50:40.800 --> 00:50:43.040 I'm not a hundred percent sold on all of this yet, 00:50:43.040 --> 00:50:45.950 but I am a hundred percent sold on going forward 00:50:45.950 --> 00:50:48.970 and studying is this the best thing to that 00:50:48.970 --> 00:50:49.870 we can look at? 00:50:49.870 --> 00:50:52.170 And I think going forward and looking at it 00:50:53.037 --> 00:50:54.340 and analyzing it as the thing that we need to do, 00:50:54.340 --> 00:50:56.520 but I'm not gonna prejudge my outcome 00:50:56.520 --> 00:50:57.710 and say that that's still a thing 00:50:57.710 --> 00:50:59.500 that we absolutely have. 00:50:59.500 --> 00:51:00.797 Still better (indistinct). 00:51:02.090 --> 00:51:02.923 It could be. 00:51:04.100 --> 00:51:06.734 We got to figure out what the specs of the car are 00:51:06.734 --> 00:51:08.911 before we know how much it's gonna cost. 00:51:08.911 --> 00:51:13.911 Yeah, maybe, but, if you wanna use a car analogy, 00:51:15.850 --> 00:51:18.492 I think that's right but sometimes 00:51:18.492 --> 00:51:21.743 I see that these load serving reliability mechanisms, 00:51:21.743 --> 00:51:23.740 it's not the first car that we're talking about, 00:51:23.740 --> 00:51:26.208 it's the backup car and the backup to the backup car. 00:51:26.208 --> 00:51:27.875 And sometimes that third backup, 00:51:27.875 --> 00:51:31.111 you're better to buy parts than to buy a third car. 00:51:31.111 --> 00:51:36.111 So that's where the analytical component has to come in 00:51:36.510 --> 00:51:38.460 to determine what's the most cost effective 00:51:38.460 --> 00:51:41.513 for our consumers knowing the goal that we want to achieve. 00:51:43.470 --> 00:51:45.349 So when you still need the specs and the decision points. 00:51:45.349 --> 00:51:48.040 We need specs and decision points 00:51:48.040 --> 00:51:49.563 in order to model, correct. 00:51:50.490 --> 00:51:52.760 So that's where I was headed Mr. Chairman 00:51:52.760 --> 00:51:54.443 And my question, just to clarify, 00:51:55.588 --> 00:51:57.440 it's clarifying question, we will ask ERCOT and again, 00:51:57.440 --> 00:51:59.673 this is just putting it another way and you had it in there, 00:51:59.673 --> 00:52:01.209 but what are the technical questions 00:52:01.209 --> 00:52:02.634 from the market administrator that need 00:52:02.634 --> 00:52:07.634 to be answered on each of the proposed obligations? 00:52:11.810 --> 00:52:13.390 Starting with backstop reliability? 00:52:13.390 --> 00:52:14.223 Yes, sir. 00:52:14.223 --> 00:52:15.230 First. 00:52:15.230 --> 00:52:19.393 In order to be implemented in any form or fashion. 00:52:21.060 --> 00:52:23.469 And then that will then go to an analytic process 00:52:23.469 --> 00:52:26.661 to answer some of the questions 00:52:26.661 --> 00:52:31.661 as Commissioner Glotfelty highlighted, but just on its face, 00:52:31.860 --> 00:52:33.713 we will ask the technical experts at ERCOT 00:52:33.713 --> 00:52:38.713 to identify those questions on a performance basis 00:52:39.224 --> 00:52:42.283 that must be answered in order to implement anything 00:52:42.283 --> 00:52:46.050 so that experts can then create something. 00:52:46.050 --> 00:52:47.280 We know which dials to turn up, 00:52:47.280 --> 00:52:48.300 which dials to turn down, 00:52:48.300 --> 00:52:50.597 we got to know the very specific dials. 00:52:50.597 --> 00:52:51.450 Okay. 00:52:51.450 --> 00:52:52.283 Correct. 00:52:53.700 --> 00:52:55.813 Yep, same as Commissioner Glotfelty, 00:52:57.008 --> 00:52:58.220 I'll put a bullet point disclaimer on that. 00:52:58.220 --> 00:53:00.140 Don't wanna prejudge anything. 00:53:00.140 --> 00:53:03.070 You know, I'm afraid of making any decision 00:53:03.070 --> 00:53:06.575 without a concrete analytics following it on cost, 00:53:06.575 --> 00:53:09.413 impact on market power, retail competition, 00:53:09.413 --> 00:53:11.900 the energy only market design. 00:53:11.900 --> 00:53:14.010 But I would support a path forward to where 00:53:14.010 --> 00:53:16.880 we get this feedback from ERCOT in a timely way 00:53:16.880 --> 00:53:19.020 so that we can start that next phase 00:53:19.020 --> 00:53:22.627 of the analysis in the spring. 00:53:24.970 --> 00:53:26.440 I would echo, I guess, 00:53:26.440 --> 00:53:28.045 the disclaimers that Commissioner Glotfelty 00:53:28.045 --> 00:53:30.559 and Commissioner McAdams laid out, 00:53:30.559 --> 00:53:33.582 but will continue to support that come to us 00:53:33.582 --> 00:53:36.566 with the technical specifications 00:53:36.566 --> 00:53:41.239 and parameters and framework of decision making 00:53:41.239 --> 00:53:42.630 that we would need to make 00:53:43.548 --> 00:53:48.548 in order to properly evaluate the mechanisms. 00:53:52.578 --> 00:53:53.905 I don't have any disclaimers. 00:53:53.905 --> 00:53:56.047 (everyone laughing) 00:53:56.047 --> 00:54:00.889 I got a motion to direct ERCOT to work with PUC staff, 00:54:00.889 --> 00:54:05.889 to identify and articulate the specifications, 00:54:08.430 --> 00:54:11.684 decision points and other relevant metrics needed to develop 00:54:11.684 --> 00:54:15.130 the products described in phase two 00:54:16.680 --> 00:54:21.085 of the December 6th memo with the priority 00:54:21.085 --> 00:54:25.740 on backstop reliability service with, 00:54:25.740 --> 00:54:28.130 and I'll stop there, that's, 00:54:28.130 --> 00:54:29.260 I'll ask for that motion. 00:54:29.260 --> 00:54:30.360 So moved. 00:54:30.360 --> 00:54:31.370 Second. 00:54:31.370 --> 00:54:32.660 All in favor say aye. 00:54:32.660 --> 00:54:33.890 Aye. 00:54:33.890 --> 00:54:35.207 None opposed, the motion passes. 00:54:35.207 --> 00:54:38.628 Thank you all very much. 00:54:38.628 --> 00:54:40.987 Question. Thank you, Chairman Lake. 00:54:40.987 --> 00:54:45.050 Do we want that directive in the same document 00:54:45.050 --> 00:54:47.905 that we're going to prepare on the previous function. 00:54:47.905 --> 00:54:50.184 I would separate it. 00:54:50.184 --> 00:54:52.158 (indistinct) 00:54:52.158 --> 00:54:52.991 I would say consensus, keep as one. 00:54:52.991 --> 00:54:54.768 Yeah, I think so, it's a blueprint. 00:54:54.768 --> 00:54:55.601 Blueprint, right. 00:54:55.601 --> 00:54:59.461 (indistinct chatter) 00:54:59.461 --> 00:55:00.474 With a disclaimer. 00:55:00.474 --> 00:55:03.007 (everyone laughing) 00:55:03.007 --> 00:55:04.653 That would be the last four pages. 00:55:05.844 --> 00:55:06.677 Hey, Jimmy, I'm the lawyer here. 00:55:06.677 --> 00:55:09.513 I'm supposed to be the one with the (indistinct) 00:55:09.513 --> 00:55:10.739 (speaker laughing) 00:55:10.739 --> 00:55:14.373 All right, that concludes our formal agenda for the day. 00:55:15.401 --> 00:55:18.700 It has been a long day, it's been a long month, 00:55:18.700 --> 00:55:22.060 it's been a long six months, it's been a long year 00:55:22.060 --> 00:55:26.390 so I will not, I don't have much to say 00:55:26.390 --> 00:55:30.083 to delay concluding business for today other than, 00:55:31.410 --> 00:55:34.063 it's been a hell of what six, seven, eight months 00:55:34.063 --> 00:55:37.073 going from what I would imagine has to be 00:55:37.073 --> 00:55:39.535 the darkest period in this Commission's history, 00:55:39.535 --> 00:55:43.610 working, making remarkable progress 00:55:43.610 --> 00:55:45.413 with our partners in the legislature, 00:55:45.413 --> 00:55:49.740 the Governor to then work with our stakeholder groups, 00:55:49.740 --> 00:55:54.740 ERCOT staff and leadership to bring about even before 00:55:56.950 --> 00:56:00.190 today's actions, an outstanding amount 00:56:00.190 --> 00:56:02.830 of reform and improvement and rely enhancement 00:56:02.830 --> 00:56:07.830 reliability at ERCOT in a staggeringly short amount of time. 00:56:08.690 --> 00:56:12.940 So all I will offer is many thanks to all of you 00:56:12.940 --> 00:56:14.080 and wish you all the best. 00:56:14.080 --> 00:56:15.073 To happy holidays. 00:56:16.500 --> 00:56:17.843 There being no further business to come before 00:56:17.843 --> 00:56:20.680 the Public Utility Commission of Texas, 00:56:20.680 --> 00:56:22.433 this meeting is hereby adjourned. 00:56:22.433 --> 00:56:23.399 (gavel banging)