WEBVTT
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(banging)
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Good morning.
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This meeting of the Public Utility Commission of Texas
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will come to order to consider matters,
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have been duly posted with the Secretary of State of Texas
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for January 13th, 2022.
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For the record, my name is Peter Lake.
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With me today are Will McAdams,
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Lori Cobos, and Jimmy Glotfelty.
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Mr. Jurnae, could you please walk us
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through today's Consent Agenda?
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Good morning by Commissioners by individual bout fall
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and items have been placed on your Consent Agenda.
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And I have to note Commissioner Cobos has recused herself
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from items 13 and 18.
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The following items have been contended, 7, 13, 14, 17, 18,
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19, 20, 21, 22, 23, and 24.
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Thank you, Sir.
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Is there a motion to approve the items
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just described by Mr. Jurnae?
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So moved.
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Second.
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All in favor, say aye.
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Aye.
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Motion passes.
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At this time, we'll open up for public comment,
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oral comments related to specific,
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but the agenda item will be heard
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when that item is taken up.
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This is for general comments.
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Speakers will be limited to three minutes each.
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Mr. Jurnae, do we have anyone from the public
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signed up to speak?
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There's one person signed up on the listserv,
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but it looks like they are interested
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in speaking on item four, the Dos Aquas case.
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And did they, I guess they did not request
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oral testimony.
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No, Sir.
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No one requested and the Commission did not grant
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or argument in that docket.
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Well, and the standard procedure was not followed,
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but I'm guessing somebody made a trip,
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and I know that's an item
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I certainly want to have this Commission
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take a good look at.
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I agree.
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So in this case, I'll grant an exception
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to what otherwise need should have been an oral,
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a request for oral argument for the Commission.
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So the speaker is welcome to approach,
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three minutes as usual.
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Mr. Scott Rowe.
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Hello, my name is Scott Rowe.
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Please, please grab a seat
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and state your name into the microphone.
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Yes, Sir.
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Hello, my name is Scott Rowe.
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I'm with Dos Aguas, LLC.
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I'm just here in case there's any questions
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that y'all might have that I can answer
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that staff maybe could not.
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Staff should know most everything on this item.
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I'm just here in case there is something
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that y'all might need that I could offer
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to help you with your decision.
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All right, thank you.
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Can I go back now?
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Yeah, yeah, you're good.
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Do we have anyone else signed up for public comment?
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No, Sir.
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Thank you.
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In that case, public comment is now closed.
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Starting with our main agenda.
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Let's go to item number one, please, 50324.
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Item one is docket 50324, the application
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of County Line special utility district
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to obtain a sewer CCN.
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A revised proposed order was filed on September 15th.
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Additional information was requested
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and it was admitted in November.
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I have a memo with proposed changes to the order.
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Thank you, Sir.
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Everything on this seems to be in order.
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I know OPDM had some questions or raised
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the issue of the 360 acres out of the 8, 000.
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That doesn't give me much
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heart, but is 5% of the total service area
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and it's essentially the Ulan area,
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but happy to hear thoughts and comments from y'all.
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Go ahead.
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Okay, so in evaluating this case
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and with respect to the 360-acre tract,
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I would prefer to stay consistent with Commission precedent
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as the prior Commission precedent has focused on,
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on a request for service and what that means.
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In this case, there has been no evidence
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for a request for service or existing customers
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that the company has proffered the City of Ulan's consent.
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They have proffered seven water utility easements
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on 12 tracks of land and have stated that it
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will provide a probable improvement of service
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because some of the customers are relying on septic tanks.
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And while those three items I think are good to know,
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the cities consent, but I don't know
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that is very, in my opinion, I don't think that it,
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that moves the needle for me
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because the city may have consented,
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but there's customers there that are on septic tanks.
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And then with respect to the seven water utility easements,
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they have provided attachment C, which is a map,
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which I'm willing to give them those tracks of land.
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So from my perspective,
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I don't think they met the requirement of providing
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enough evidence for on the issue of requests for service.
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And I would grant the application,
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give them the 12 tracks of land.
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Excuse me, hold on.
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We'll call up anybody that, when they, thank you.
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We'll give them the 12 tracks of land,
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but not give them the rest of the 360 acres based
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on prior Commission precedent that I think we need
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to stay, stick with.
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Because if we move away from that strict precedent,
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then essentially we're going to be saying,
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is it a city can consent, a water utility
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can come in and not provide sufficient evidence
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to meet the request for service requirement,
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and the company can just say that the installation
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of a water system will provide
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a probable improvement of service.
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As we have seen in the past,
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Commission precedent has relied on
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actual requests for service and while there is a need
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to make sure that we're expanding
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and allowing water utilities to expand,
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this is also a question of making sure
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that they're expanding in a way that's consistent
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with what the need for services
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that they've requested in their service territory.
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So yeah, just to recap, I read that as a very one,
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following previous precedent of the Commission
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and a conservative reading of service requests, again,
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not implied service requests,
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that we will do this in the future,
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that this offers them the opportunity
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to avail themselves of the service,
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but active service requests.
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Okay.
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I feel more comfortable with that as well.
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And in terms of a rating, in terms of this application,
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do you have in mind because this,
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this is somewhat narrowing it,
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how many acres are involved in excluding from the?
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That's a good question.
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So we have the total acres and then we have
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that 360-acre track of land that's at question, at issue.
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The 360 acres out of 8, 148 acres that had been requested.
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And within that 360-acre track, my understanding
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and I would like clarification on this is if we give them
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the 12 tracks where the water utility easements are,
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how many acres would that include?
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So you're saying you want to exclude the 360 and,
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but include the acreage that has the easements?
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Yes.
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So, yes.
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Okay.
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I don't think the easements overlapped with the 360,
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I don't, but I'm open to correction on that.
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Good morning Commissioner, Sheila Cisneros
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for Commission Advising.
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I'm going off of recollection.
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I believe that the easements may be within the 360 acres
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that are referenced in the application.
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I don't know that we have definitive evidence on that,
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but based on the statements that we have seen
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in the filings, I believe that may be the case.
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Okay.
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So in that case, Commissioner Gomez, would,
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what would say exclude the 360 less land
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included in the easements?
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Correct.
Okay.
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And you're thinking, okay.
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So I initially started there and the only hesitation
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I had with that and offer this as food for thought
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is that in the, in my past life,
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at the Water Development Board,
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we saw communities actively, or sorry,
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not communities, not the city,
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but certain members of the community
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actively sabotage expansion of water and wastewater services
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as an attempt to prevent growth in their areas.
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And I'll, that can be, that same tactic has been used
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for water, wastewater, transportation.
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I won't name names, but we're familiar with them.
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We've lost some traffic problems.
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And so that kind of caught just that,
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that kind of was a red flag that popped up
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in the back of my mind is this,
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is this another one of those instances
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where we like our little town and we're going
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to refuse to get off of septic.
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Of course it never works.
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The growth comes anyway,
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and you end up with raw sewage flowing
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through the streets, literally.
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And so that's just something that I want
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to put out there as a con,
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the only reason I wouldn't go with, stick
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with precedent is that that's the possibility
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or the concern that this may be one of
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those anti-growth tactics that doesn't
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do anything other than overload an aging septic system,
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and end up with sewage in the streets.
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And that coupled with the fact that just
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because the CC, ACC is granted
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that doesn't require the members in that area
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to take the service or pay for the expenses
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of that service, right?
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So there's no obligation on them,
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but it's available if they so choose.
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So I'll just offer that up to for consideration
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or just food for thought.
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And let me know what you think.
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Chairman, certainly great points, right?
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From your prior experience
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and I think that is important to keep in mind.
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From a process standpoint,
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I believe that if I know the City of Elan
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has given consent as customers and as they build
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out their system and they see customers request service,
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they can come back in and request for an amendment
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to their CCN to expand into the remaining acres
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of track minus the seven tracks of land.
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That from a procedural standpoint is my understanding
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based on the CCN rules.
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But to the chairman's point.
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And so kind of balancing that out in my own mind,
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if we go through this and we grant the CCN,
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it creates an opportunity again for a piecemeal approach.
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And I think that's the concern.
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If you piecemeal this out to where you're constantly
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having to come in and apply for those amendments,
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it creates the opportunity for activists,
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opposed stakeholders to come in and actively try
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to convince the surrounding areas like, look,
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stay on your system, we're good.
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We don't want them here.
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When they come, strings are attached
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as an anti-growth measure.
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And what happens is that the hotels
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and restaurants downtown take the revenue and they expand,
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increase their usage on the same septic system.
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Yeah, I hear ya.
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What do you think?
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I'm more convinced with the Chairman.
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Yeah, I think there's a middle ground
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because the only thing I'm thinking
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about another docket where this is,
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is going to come into play and we'll have
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another conversation about the speculative nature
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of some of these applications.
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So there's a middle ground.
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I mean, I think it would be helpful
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to understand how many acres of
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12 tracks of land cover, right?
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Because these 12 tracks of land
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could be taking up 200 acres.
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And we're really just talking about 160 acres.
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It could be negligible, but I, my thought process,
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and you're more familiar with that area
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than I am with respect to anti-growth activists,
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is that I feel like as we move away
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and I understand the Commission precedent
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is pretty conservative.
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As we move away,
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we start blurring the lines and we may have
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more water utilities come in asking for additional
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larger certificates areas, excessive based on
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kind of what I believe are
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at least the seven easements are backed up
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with evidence, but a blanket statement
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of probable improvement of service will
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that's according to them, that's an easy one to say.
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There's, and process and precedent is important,
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which is why I offered that up as I offer that as
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a suggestion, but it may be worth considering.
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Some sort of doctrine or something that.
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I mean, I would just say off,
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we could either table this or remand it
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and a lot off to give them a chance to go look for,
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or seek out the request for service from the 360 acres.
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And it would be on County Line to show us
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either request for service or evidence of anti-growth.
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If they go out and say, "Look,
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"this is a concerted effort to sabotage development."
00:14:38.950 --> 00:14:41.510
Well, that's going to end up with a health hazard
00:14:41.510 --> 00:14:43.190
when septics overflow,
00:14:43.190 --> 00:14:44.893
then we can consider that as well.
00:14:46.077 --> 00:14:47.856
I like that.
00:14:47.856 --> 00:14:48.689
Yeah, that'd be the way to go.
00:14:48.689 --> 00:14:50.890
Is that manageable?
00:14:50.890 --> 00:14:52.680
It is manageable.
00:14:52.680 --> 00:14:57.030
And to the extent we start cutting some of this out,
00:14:57.030 --> 00:14:58.520
from a staff perspective,
00:14:58.520 --> 00:15:00.960
I think the most difficult thing is dealing
00:15:00.960 --> 00:15:03.330
with mapping issues and getting clear
00:15:05.750 --> 00:15:09.060
identifiers of the specific properties
00:15:09.060 --> 00:15:10.733
and what's in and what's out.
00:15:11.920 --> 00:15:13.130
From past experience,
00:15:13.130 --> 00:15:16.230
when we start having little individual tracks
00:15:16.230 --> 00:15:19.350
within this thing, it is an opportunity
00:15:21.960 --> 00:15:24.410
for our map and folks to really use their skills.
00:15:27.260 --> 00:15:28.860
Well, isn't that your son now?
00:15:29.771 --> 00:15:30.604
(laughter)
00:15:30.604 --> 00:15:31.437
He's still in training,
00:15:31.437 --> 00:15:33.262
so I'm not sure they're letting them do real work yet.
00:15:33.262 --> 00:15:35.440
(laughter)
00:15:35.440 --> 00:15:40.440
Okay, so it's, is it helpful to request that
00:15:41.648 --> 00:15:44.230
or ask that County Line
00:15:45.830 --> 00:15:47.910
or I'd take it an either/or,
00:15:47.910 --> 00:15:51.950
or we could approve the proposed order
00:15:51.950 --> 00:15:55.227
less than 360 and they can just come back and amend it.
00:15:55.227 --> 00:15:56.370
We could do that.
00:15:56.370 --> 00:16:01.370
I mean, I would remind you though that the impetus
00:16:01.500 --> 00:16:05.800
for not certificating this is not coming
00:16:05.800 --> 00:16:08.430
from an activist group on the outside.
00:16:08.430 --> 00:16:11.900
It's really an internal thing about consistency
00:16:11.900 --> 00:16:13.870
with the Commission's previous decision.
00:16:13.870 --> 00:16:16.970
So I don't know if that ameliorates your concerns
00:16:16.970 --> 00:16:19.763
a little bit based upon your past experience or not.
00:16:22.853 --> 00:16:25.313
Just 'cause we don't see them doesn't mean that not.
00:16:26.440 --> 00:16:29.500
So the situation is you're exactly right.
00:16:29.500 --> 00:16:32.840
And your experience is exactly what's going to happen.
00:16:32.840 --> 00:16:34.830
I mean, you've seen this before,
00:16:34.830 --> 00:16:36.930
so I'd like to try to bring the Commission forward
00:16:36.930 --> 00:16:39.300
if possible, given your experience
00:16:39.300 --> 00:16:44.050
to find this doctrinal middle ground
00:16:44.050 --> 00:16:49.050
to where we can still provide enough flexibility
00:16:49.520 --> 00:16:53.117
in our precedence to absorb growth
00:16:55.190 --> 00:16:57.403
in these applications to account for it.
00:16:58.430 --> 00:17:01.783
Not speculation as we'll consider later on.
00:17:02.650 --> 00:17:04.780
So maybe the appropriate thing to do would be
00:17:04.780 --> 00:17:08.837
to, recommendation would be to approve
00:17:10.150 --> 00:17:11.823
the revised proposed order,
00:17:13.500 --> 00:17:16.140
including the seven water utility easements
00:17:16.140 --> 00:17:21.140
with the 12 tracks and as minus the remainder of
00:17:22.097 --> 00:17:25.280
the 360-track acre that where there's not
00:17:25.280 --> 00:17:29.470
a request for service, but either in the order
00:17:29.470 --> 00:17:31.820
and obviously the folks hearing here today will understand
00:17:31.820 --> 00:17:35.720
that as you come back in to prove up need for service,
00:17:35.720 --> 00:17:39.530
if you're not able to show need for service,
00:17:39.530 --> 00:17:41.470
because customers aren't requesting it
00:17:41.470 --> 00:17:43.610
to provide as additional information
00:17:43.610 --> 00:17:45.480
on what you're seeing on the ground.
00:17:45.480 --> 00:17:47.867
Like a petition or something of landowners like, "Hey,
00:17:47.867 --> 00:17:49.020
"would you be interested in this?"
00:17:49.020 --> 00:17:50.170
Not maybe not now,
00:17:50.170 --> 00:17:52.200
but in the future or something like that.
00:17:52.200 --> 00:17:54.940
I just think about myself that having property out
00:17:54.940 --> 00:17:58.770
in far-flung rural areas of Texas and as growth comes North.
00:17:58.770 --> 00:18:01.540
Yeah, I don't want a decline outright,
00:18:01.540 --> 00:18:04.257
that I'm never going to avail myself of the service,
00:18:04.257 --> 00:18:06.500
but I'm not taking it right now.
00:18:06.500 --> 00:18:07.333
You know what I'm saying?
00:18:07.333 --> 00:18:09.590
I'm perfectly happy with my well and my septic
00:18:09.590 --> 00:18:11.313
and I don't want to be bothered, but my kids
00:18:11.313 --> 00:18:13.170
may be interested in this.
00:18:13.170 --> 00:18:14.380
So as the growth comes North,
00:18:14.380 --> 00:18:16.070
I don't want to kill the project outright.
00:18:16.070 --> 00:18:17.200
You know what I'm saying?
00:18:17.200 --> 00:18:19.890
But at least prove to us that there is
00:18:19.890 --> 00:18:22.870
a local inclination that this would be valuable
00:18:22.870 --> 00:18:27.370
to them as future growth consistent.
00:18:27.370 --> 00:18:28.203
Exactly.
00:18:28.203 --> 00:18:31.380
So some additional evidence and information as to
00:18:31.380 --> 00:18:35.103
while there may not be actual customers requesting service,
00:18:36.200 --> 00:18:40.380
there is a basis for why this expansion is needed
00:18:40.380 --> 00:18:41.783
based on local growth.
00:18:42.720 --> 00:18:44.350
So some kind of material there.
00:18:44.350 --> 00:18:46.140
So Mata suggests
00:18:46.140 --> 00:18:48.440
to accomplish Commissioner Cobos'--
00:18:48.440 --> 00:18:49.273
That makes since to me,
00:18:49.273 --> 00:18:50.440
does that work for y'all?
00:18:50.440 --> 00:18:51.273
Suggestion.
00:18:51.273 --> 00:18:54.300
You would do a remand back so that we could get
00:18:54.300 --> 00:18:57.050
the information on the specific tracks and sizes
00:18:57.050 --> 00:19:01.193
so that we could nail that down in that process.
00:19:02.160 --> 00:19:05.530
The applicant would have time to go out to these landowners
00:19:05.530 --> 00:19:07.800
and ask them and see if they can get them
00:19:07.800 --> 00:19:11.020
to sign something to a request for service.
00:19:11.020 --> 00:19:13.560
So the remand back to us would be with the instructions,
00:19:13.560 --> 00:19:16.610
also, the understanding that if they get additional requests
00:19:16.610 --> 00:19:19.300
for service within what we have currently,
00:19:19.300 --> 00:19:22.450
we could add that into the certificate.
00:19:22.450 --> 00:19:23.283
Well, that's right.
00:19:23.283 --> 00:19:24.500
It's all about the qualifying acreage.
00:19:24.500 --> 00:19:25.950
Once it's in there, it's in.
00:19:25.950 --> 00:19:28.040
And then when coming back to you next time,
00:19:28.040 --> 00:19:31.220
whatever's going to be within the map within the area,
00:19:31.220 --> 00:19:33.650
would we would have support for request
00:19:33.650 --> 00:19:36.040
for service or the easement properties.
00:19:36.040 --> 00:19:38.620
That makes sense.
That works.
00:19:38.620 --> 00:19:39.453
Okay, cool.
00:19:40.860 --> 00:19:45.250
Is there a motion to remand the docket
00:19:45.250 --> 00:19:46.693
with the instructions?
00:19:48.692 --> 00:19:51.417
Would we like to take questions?
00:19:52.555 --> 00:19:54.033
Sure, be brief, please.
00:19:59.540 --> 00:20:00.540
My name is Danielle Lamb,
00:20:00.540 --> 00:20:03.130
I'm here as attorney for County Line SUD.
00:20:03.130 --> 00:20:05.780
I would just like to note that when we were
00:20:05.780 --> 00:20:08.410
preparing this application, Commission precedent showed
00:20:08.410 --> 00:20:11.510
that they deferred to cities within their corporate limits
00:20:11.510 --> 00:20:13.810
and that's why there was less of a focus on demonstration
00:20:13.810 --> 00:20:16.903
of need within the city's corporate for a city of Ulan.
00:20:17.740 --> 00:20:19.363
But that's pretty much it.
00:20:20.710 --> 00:20:23.390
No, based on our reading, I'm not sure I agree.
00:20:23.390 --> 00:20:26.130
So I think we move, keep moving forward
00:20:26.130 --> 00:20:28.890
with our directive to Commission staff.
00:20:28.890 --> 00:20:30.040
All right, thank you.
00:20:31.970 --> 00:20:34.640
Is there a motion to remand the docket for the parties
00:20:34.640 --> 00:20:37.310
to revise the requested area in and around Ulan
00:20:37.310 --> 00:20:39.020
where need has not been demonstrated
00:20:39.020 --> 00:20:43.930
with the instructions outlined by Mr. Jurnae previously?
00:20:43.930 --> 00:20:44.763
So moved.
00:20:44.763 --> 00:20:46.670
Is there a second?
Second.
00:20:46.670 --> 00:20:48.050
All in favor?
00:20:48.050 --> 00:20:49.450
Aye.
00:20:49.450 --> 00:20:51.150
None opposed, the motion passes.
00:20:52.300 --> 00:20:54.410
Next item, please.
00:20:54.410 --> 00:20:56.833
Item two is docket 50347.
00:20:56.833 --> 00:20:59.320
It's the application of Texas Country Water
00:21:00.260 --> 00:21:02.100
to change the rates.
00:21:02.100 --> 00:21:06.010
A proposed order was filed on October six.
00:21:06.010 --> 00:21:09.410
The correction memo was filed on October 15th.
00:21:09.410 --> 00:21:11.040
The Commission considered this at
00:21:11.040 --> 00:21:13.220
the October 28th open meeting
00:21:13.220 --> 00:21:15.610
and asked for additional information.
00:21:15.610 --> 00:21:18.910
That information has been submitted
00:21:18.910 --> 00:21:21.800
and it has been admitted into evidence.
00:21:21.800 --> 00:21:24.760
And to this by the, by Judge Hear.
00:21:24.760 --> 00:21:28.053
I have a memo with proposed changes to the order.
00:21:29.180 --> 00:21:30.123
Thank you, Sir.
00:21:31.650 --> 00:21:33.950
It seems these reasonable, these rights are reasonable
00:21:33.950 --> 00:21:36.700
and sufficient evidence was provided.
00:21:36.700 --> 00:21:38.870
There's also the issue with granting a good cause exception
00:21:38.870 --> 00:21:41.890
to OPUC, given the small size of the system,
00:21:41.890 --> 00:21:45.670
I think there's good reason for that good cause exception,
00:21:45.670 --> 00:21:49.465
but I will, of course, defer to our resident, CoCo Cologne.
00:21:49.465 --> 00:21:50.720
Thank you.
00:21:50.720 --> 00:21:52.208
So, yes, I agree.
00:21:52.208 --> 00:21:53.770
And I want to thank the company and staff
00:21:53.770 --> 00:21:57.100
for submitting the additional evidence on the tap fee.
00:21:57.100 --> 00:21:58.680
I had requested that information at
00:21:58.680 --> 00:22:00.599
the October 28th open meeting
00:22:00.599 --> 00:22:02.510
and I think the evidence is sufficient
00:22:02.510 --> 00:22:04.840
to justify the $3, 500 tap fee.
00:22:04.840 --> 00:22:06.218
And I agree with you, Chairman,
00:22:06.218 --> 00:22:09.160
I think there are sufficient grounds to grant
00:22:09.160 --> 00:22:10.812
the good cause exception for not providing
00:22:10.812 --> 00:22:15.110
a notice to OPUC since the it's a small water utility
00:22:15.110 --> 00:22:16.883
that's being represented pro se.
00:22:17.800 --> 00:22:22.410
And I agree on that point as well.
00:22:22.410 --> 00:22:24.614
Any thoughts or questions, or a motion
00:22:24.614 --> 00:22:28.310
to grant both questions?
00:22:28.310 --> 00:22:32.850
No, I would move for to grant good cause.
00:22:32.850 --> 00:22:34.130
All right, we've got a motion to grant
00:22:34.130 --> 00:22:34.963
good cause exception,
00:22:34.963 --> 00:22:37.320
Texas Country's notice requirement and approve
00:22:37.320 --> 00:22:41.720
the proposed order as modified by Commission council,
00:22:41.720 --> 00:22:42.700
January 7th memo.
00:22:42.700 --> 00:22:43.680
Do we have a second?
00:22:43.680 --> 00:22:44.513
Second.
00:22:44.513 --> 00:22:45.459
All in favor, say aye.
00:22:45.459 --> 00:22:46.292
Aye.
00:22:46.292 --> 00:22:48.530
None opposed, the motion passes.
00:22:48.530 --> 00:22:50.180
Next item, please, Sir.
00:22:50.180 --> 00:22:52.433
Item 3 is docket 50404,
00:22:52.433 --> 00:22:54.950
it's petition of Sterling Decen O'Donnell
00:22:54.950 --> 00:22:57.500
and Darwin Decen as the co-trustees of
00:22:57.500 --> 00:22:59.500
the Sterling Decen O'Donnell Trust
00:22:59.500 --> 00:23:03.660
and other things for expedited release.
00:23:03.660 --> 00:23:05.810
Commission issued an order granting the petition
00:23:05.810 --> 00:23:07.620
for lease on October 12th.
00:23:07.620 --> 00:23:12.620
Marylee, the utility who's has a certificated area
00:23:12.690 --> 00:23:14.020
from which the land was removed,
00:23:14.020 --> 00:23:16.380
filed the motion for rehearing.
00:23:16.380 --> 00:23:18.250
At the Commission, extended time to act
00:23:18.250 --> 00:23:21.360
on that motion on December 1st, though,
00:23:21.360 --> 00:23:25.610
December 2nd open meeting, and Commissioner Glotfelty
00:23:25.610 --> 00:23:28.540
has a wonderful memo on this item.
00:23:28.540 --> 00:23:30.260
I know y'all are disappointed that this doesn't have
00:23:30.260 --> 00:23:32.090
to do with vegetation management,
00:23:32.090 --> 00:23:33.897
but we're going to talk about that later.
00:23:33.897 --> 00:23:36.147
(laughter)
00:23:37.171 --> 00:23:42.171
This is hopefully just a language modification
00:23:42.203 --> 00:23:46.985
that would address the term tract of land
00:23:46.985 --> 00:23:51.130
in these orders seeking release.
00:23:51.130 --> 00:23:55.620
It's pretty self-explanatory, it's defining tract of land
00:23:55.620 --> 00:23:57.763
and adding three conclusions of law.
00:23:59.000 --> 00:24:02.919
If you have questions, I'm happy to defer to our council,
00:24:02.919 --> 00:24:07.493
but otherwise it should be totally self-explanatory.
00:24:08.500 --> 00:24:12.540
The memo was so extraordinarily well-written it needs,
00:24:12.540 --> 00:24:14.380
it is completely self-explanatory.
00:24:14.380 --> 00:24:16.069
That's what I thought.
00:24:16.069 --> 00:24:18.319
(laughter)
00:24:19.390 --> 00:24:21.956
I'm sorry to muddy it with my words.
00:24:21.956 --> 00:24:23.599
(laughter)
00:24:23.599 --> 00:24:26.000
No, no, they were just, the cherry on top.
00:24:26.000 --> 00:24:27.900
Beautifully complimented.
00:24:27.900 --> 00:24:29.300
That that all makes sense to me.
00:24:29.300 --> 00:24:34.300
The memo is a very well-reasoned clarification
00:24:34.650 --> 00:24:37.140
and tightening up of the language.
00:24:37.140 --> 00:24:39.100
Any other thoughts or comments?
00:24:39.100 --> 00:24:41.320
I would just say, and I, like you, Mr. Chairman,
00:24:41.320 --> 00:24:42.850
I concur with the memo and appreciate
00:24:42.850 --> 00:24:45.103
its clarity and brevity.
00:24:46.130 --> 00:24:50.010
The most important point I think of this conversation
00:24:50.010 --> 00:24:53.509
as in trying to the memo and the cases is one,
00:24:53.509 --> 00:24:56.360
several of these cases brought forward,
00:24:56.360 --> 00:24:57.540
have a consistency in that
00:24:57.540 --> 00:24:59.350
they said our orders were confusing
00:24:59.350 --> 00:25:00.500
and that we were wrong.
00:25:01.550 --> 00:25:03.700
And I fully appreciate the fact
00:25:03.700 --> 00:25:05.290
that they believe we were wrong
00:25:05.290 --> 00:25:07.531
and I'm sure they will continue that conversation
00:25:07.531 --> 00:25:09.400
in other venues.
00:25:09.400 --> 00:25:11.130
However, for the sake of clarity,
00:25:11.130 --> 00:25:14.540
I think that the memo and the policy we consider here today
00:25:14.540 --> 00:25:17.460
helps us provide that clarity.
00:25:17.460 --> 00:25:20.270
As a landowner, I appreciate any type of clarity
00:25:20.270 --> 00:25:23.990
and law or rule that allows sever ability
00:25:23.990 --> 00:25:25.140
to where we can clarify
00:25:25.140 --> 00:25:28.010
what's actually impacted in these orders.
00:25:28.010 --> 00:25:31.720
That way you don't lock up a landowner's entire holdings,
00:25:31.720 --> 00:25:34.910
only the pertinent applicable attractive land,
00:25:34.910 --> 00:25:39.090
and not necessarily the whole titled property.
00:25:39.090 --> 00:25:41.043
So I can corp--
00:25:42.963 --> 00:25:44.822
Yeah, no, thank you, Commissioner Glotfelty
00:25:44.822 --> 00:25:46.870
and Commissioner McAdams on your points.
00:25:46.870 --> 00:25:50.200
I agree with your memo, Commissioner Glotfelty,
00:25:50.200 --> 00:25:53.010
I think it's important to make sure our orders are clear
00:25:54.060 --> 00:25:55.510
with respect to tract of land,
00:25:55.510 --> 00:25:57.870
and also to ensure that we have standard provisions
00:25:57.870 --> 00:26:01.103
going forward on the expedited release cases.
00:26:02.560 --> 00:26:03.510
Well put.
00:26:03.510 --> 00:26:08.510
Is there a motion to grant a re-hearing only,
00:26:09.200 --> 00:26:10.040
not because we're wrong,
00:26:10.040 --> 00:26:11.730
only for the reasons addressed
00:26:11.730 --> 00:26:13.120
in Commissioner Glotfelty's memo
00:26:13.120 --> 00:26:14.710
and direct OPDM to prepare an order
00:26:14.710 --> 00:26:16.440
on re-hearing with those changes?
00:26:16.440 --> 00:26:17.273
So moved.
00:26:17.273 --> 00:26:18.106
Second.
00:26:18.106 --> 00:26:19.040
All in favor, say aye.
00:26:19.040 --> 00:26:20.090
Aye.
00:26:20.090 --> 00:26:22.480
None opposed, the motion passes.
00:26:22.480 --> 00:26:24.100
Next item, please, Sir.
00:26:24.100 --> 00:26:26.130
Item four is docket 51407,
00:26:26.130 --> 00:26:29.900
it's the application of Dos Aquas for water CCN
00:26:29.900 --> 00:26:31.920
in Walter and Montgomery Counties.
00:26:31.920 --> 00:26:34.180
A proposed order was filed on September 10th,
00:26:34.180 --> 00:26:36.743
no exceptions or corrections were filed.
00:26:39.300 --> 00:26:40.833
All right.
00:26:41.910 --> 00:26:44.970
This seems to be the opposite of the CCN
00:26:44.970 --> 00:26:46.083
we considered earlier.
00:26:48.740 --> 00:26:53.340
I don't see any way that this application
00:26:53.340 --> 00:26:56.780
provided sufficient information or evidence
00:26:58.250 --> 00:27:03.250
in addressing either the need for service, financial ability
00:27:03.630 --> 00:27:06.373
or technical ability.
00:27:09.379 --> 00:27:12.463
The, I don't even know where to start.
00:27:15.020 --> 00:27:18.300
Certainly Dos Aquas, I think, would benefit
00:27:18.300 --> 00:27:23.300
from outside counsel and experienced outside counsel
00:27:24.800 --> 00:27:27.460
to assist in their application process need,
00:27:27.460 --> 00:27:31.873
the need for service is ambitious, or would make him,
00:27:32.800 --> 00:27:35.970
the scope of this would make ambition blush.
00:27:35.970 --> 00:27:40.970
The financing evidence for financial ability
00:27:41.030 --> 00:27:44.680
is sorely lacking and we can not in any way
00:27:44.680 --> 00:27:48.930
rely on affiliates, in general,
00:27:48.930 --> 00:27:53.930
and certainly not in the case or in a project
00:27:54.590 --> 00:27:57.063
of this scope and scale.
00:27:58.510 --> 00:28:01.250
And the, on technical ability,
00:28:01.250 --> 00:28:06.250
the TCEQ said it very clearly the, they're not gonna
00:28:06.600 --> 00:28:10.500
approve anything until the demonstrated capability,
00:28:10.500 --> 00:28:11.790
or plans or capability matched
00:28:11.790 --> 00:28:16.790
the plan need and plan connections.
00:28:17.442 --> 00:28:18.740
I'll stop there.
00:28:18.740 --> 00:28:22.645
And of course, love to hear y'all's thoughts and comments.
00:28:22.645 --> 00:28:23.478
Sure.
00:28:23.478 --> 00:28:25.880
I, Chairman, I completely agree.
00:28:25.880 --> 00:28:28.880
The company's application is just wrought with deficiencies.
00:28:30.640 --> 00:28:33.290
The company has, with their CCN, has filed,
00:28:33.290 --> 00:28:37.230
is basically seeking to become a large class E,
00:28:37.230 --> 00:28:39.600
nearly a class B water utility,
00:28:39.600 --> 00:28:42.490
and would be required to comply
00:28:42.490 --> 00:28:45.260
with our Commission regulations that are applicable
00:28:45.260 --> 00:28:47.100
to larger water utilities,
00:28:47.100 --> 00:28:49.470
which comes with responsibilities.
00:28:49.470 --> 00:28:52.720
And the company just hasn't provided a significant amount
00:28:52.720 --> 00:28:55.880
of information that would allow us to properly evaluate
00:28:55.880 --> 00:28:58.640
the CCN application under the Texas Water Code
00:28:58.640 --> 00:28:59.625
and the Commission rules.
00:28:59.625 --> 00:29:01.430
I think as you know,
00:29:01.430 --> 00:29:03.190
the company would certainly benefit
00:29:03.190 --> 00:29:04.723
from having outside counsel.
00:29:07.980 --> 00:29:09.630
Remanding the case would
00:29:09.630 --> 00:29:11.760
be basically like having them refile
00:29:11.760 --> 00:29:14.730
an UCC and application and would be a waste
00:29:14.730 --> 00:29:15.905
of our staff resources.
00:29:15.905 --> 00:29:20.240
So I personally would be comfortable would with just
00:29:20.240 --> 00:29:22.810
all-out denying the CCN application without prejudice,
00:29:22.810 --> 00:29:27.810
and having them come back with a more substantive CC
00:29:28.870 --> 00:29:30.961
and application that'll allow us to properly evaluate
00:29:30.961 --> 00:29:35.961
their application based on the true capacity
00:29:37.800 --> 00:29:39.260
that they're able to serve.
00:29:39.260 --> 00:29:43.210
And the main areas that you highlighted
00:29:43.210 --> 00:29:45.100
would have to be in that application,
00:29:45.100 --> 00:29:46.920
which would have to show a need for service
00:29:46.920 --> 00:29:49.770
with actual maps, actual proved developments,
00:29:49.770 --> 00:29:53.560
plats, ability to provide continuous
00:29:53.560 --> 00:29:56.870
and adequate service in the service area,
00:29:56.870 --> 00:30:00.633
financial capability pursuant to our rules,
00:30:01.920 --> 00:30:03.770
and evidence of TCQ approval.
00:30:03.770 --> 00:30:05.220
I don't think there was even evidence in there.
00:30:05.220 --> 00:30:07.480
I know we know that there was conditional approval,
00:30:07.480 --> 00:30:10.410
but there just needs a lot to be a lot more information.
00:30:10.410 --> 00:30:14.350
The application as file is just sorely deficient.
00:30:14.350 --> 00:30:16.893
So are you, did, don't bother with a remand,
00:30:16.893 --> 00:30:20.320
just deny and ask them to go back and start from scratch?
00:30:20.320 --> 00:30:23.098
Yeah, I think it's a waste of staff resources to remand.
00:30:23.098 --> 00:30:28.098
So on my sheet, I had a starting point of, yeah,
00:30:28.600 --> 00:30:31.053
I would reject, deny,
00:30:32.260 --> 00:30:36.810
but I would compromise to a remand to seek more information.
00:30:36.810 --> 00:30:39.470
But for the purposes of clarity for everybody else
00:30:39.470 --> 00:30:43.713
out there watching, look, from my point of view,
00:30:44.810 --> 00:30:47.120
I put great weight on process,
00:30:47.120 --> 00:30:52.120
but also joint processes between two agencies in water.
00:30:53.130 --> 00:30:57.950
TCEQ is in charge of the health and safety of these systems.
00:30:57.950 --> 00:30:59.340
That's comes first.
00:30:59.340 --> 00:31:00.680
The money comes later.
00:31:00.680 --> 00:31:01.513
Okay?
00:31:01.513 --> 00:31:03.350
I don't care about money if people's health
00:31:03.350 --> 00:31:04.540
and safety is at risk.
00:31:04.540 --> 00:31:06.930
So they've got to make a decision on whether
00:31:06.930 --> 00:31:10.650
all the safeguards are in place to grant a permit,
00:31:10.650 --> 00:31:13.260
provisional or what, I'd like to see something definitive
00:31:13.260 --> 00:31:14.530
on that from TCEQ.
00:31:14.530 --> 00:31:16.240
And then I'll worry about the money.
00:31:16.240 --> 00:31:17.783
That's the gate.
00:31:18.960 --> 00:31:19.847
You gotta have the key to that gate
00:31:19.847 --> 00:31:20.870
before anything else moves.
00:31:20.870 --> 00:31:21.703
Correct.
00:31:21.703 --> 00:31:25.600
So in terms of order and in the process,
00:31:25.600 --> 00:31:27.660
definitely want to see that.
00:31:27.660 --> 00:31:29.970
Then we get into the other issues that you highlighted
00:31:29.970 --> 00:31:34.200
so well, Mr. Chairman, that have not been addressed.
00:31:34.200 --> 00:31:36.580
And then the other broad-reaching,
00:31:36.580 --> 00:31:39.010
high-altitude policy that I would like
00:31:39.010 --> 00:31:43.130
to cover for folks is start out small, okay?
00:31:43.130 --> 00:31:45.700
This is a broad-ranging application involving
00:31:45.700 --> 00:31:48.881
a lot of acreage and a lot of potential connections,
00:31:48.881 --> 00:31:51.690
but it's speculative in nature.
00:31:51.690 --> 00:31:54.620
I know the area in question, know it very well,
00:31:54.620 --> 00:31:57.593
high growth area, you're growing like crazy out there.
00:31:58.580 --> 00:31:59.950
So it may be there.
00:31:59.950 --> 00:32:02.243
But again, we don't know.
00:32:03.220 --> 00:32:08.060
And I think this docket would do well
00:32:08.060 --> 00:32:09.900
just to start that process over
00:32:09.900 --> 00:32:12.130
and put the right pieces in the right order
00:32:12.130 --> 00:32:13.540
with the right information,
00:32:13.540 --> 00:32:15.763
and then come back to the Commission.
00:32:17.800 --> 00:32:19.300
I really don't have anything to add.
00:32:19.300 --> 00:32:20.250
I'm in agreement.
00:32:20.250 --> 00:32:25.250
I hope that the applicant realizes that this is intended
00:32:25.400 --> 00:32:26.960
to be informative,
00:32:26.960 --> 00:32:31.100
that we take the job very seriously that we need
00:32:31.100 --> 00:32:34.460
to see TCEQ approval, the need for service,
00:32:34.460 --> 00:32:36.940
the technical ability, the sufficient funds,
00:32:36.940 --> 00:32:38.360
updated letters of credit.
00:32:38.360 --> 00:32:40.560
All of these things are important for us to protect
00:32:40.560 --> 00:32:44.500
the consumer and that they take this back and go refile
00:32:44.500 --> 00:32:46.340
an application that actually shows
00:32:46.340 --> 00:32:47.671
that they actually know that.
00:32:47.671 --> 00:32:50.690
And then we consider it in due course.
00:32:50.690 --> 00:32:53.707
Yeah, and did that point, Mr. Glotfelty,
00:32:53.707 --> 00:32:56.130
there's, I understand there's a chance
00:32:56.130 --> 00:32:59.110
at work has, there's a possibility work has been done
00:32:59.110 --> 00:33:01.500
since the application was filed.
00:33:01.500 --> 00:33:04.130
I don't know that, it was not in the evidence,
00:33:04.130 --> 00:33:08.800
but this also would allow, provide a clean slate
00:33:08.800 --> 00:33:13.000
and a fresh platform to capture the work that has been,
00:33:13.000 --> 00:33:17.360
if the work has been done, and present a more comprehensive
00:33:17.360 --> 00:33:22.250
and thorough application and collection of evidence.
00:33:22.250 --> 00:33:23.660
Agreed.
Agreed.
00:33:23.660 --> 00:33:25.290
And Commissioners, if I may just quickly,
00:33:25.290 --> 00:33:29.410
I would also remind the company that they should probably
00:33:29.410 --> 00:33:31.194
reach out to our Division of Utility Outreach,
00:33:31.194 --> 00:33:33.020
who can help them with their application
00:33:33.020 --> 00:33:34.990
and any financial, managerial, and technical issues
00:33:34.990 --> 00:33:36.173
that they're having.
00:33:37.370 --> 00:33:40.370
Well-put and that information is available.
00:33:40.370 --> 00:33:42.900
It's available on our website, yes, Sir.
00:33:42.900 --> 00:33:44.950
All right, well put, thank you, Thomas.
00:33:46.140 --> 00:33:49.080
Is there a motion to deny the CCN
00:33:49.080 --> 00:33:51.310
for the reasons addressed in our discussion?
00:33:51.310 --> 00:33:52.143
So moved.
00:33:52.143 --> 00:33:52.976
Second.
00:33:52.976 --> 00:33:54.010
All in favor, say aye.
00:33:54.010 --> 00:33:54.980
Aye.
00:33:54.980 --> 00:33:57.370
None opposed, motion passes.
00:33:57.370 --> 00:33:58.543
Next item, please, Sir.
00:33:59.860 --> 00:34:01.510
Before we move, Sir, I will just add that
00:34:01.510 --> 00:34:04.200
if Mr. Rowe would stay till the end of this meeting,
00:34:04.200 --> 00:34:06.770
I'd be happy to answer any questions
00:34:06.770 --> 00:34:09.590
to help him understand what y'all just said.
00:34:09.590 --> 00:34:11.590
Thank you, appreciate that.
00:34:11.590 --> 00:34:15.160
Next item is item five, docket 51545,
00:34:15.160 --> 00:34:19.040
petition of company state of centers to men Rockets
00:34:19.040 --> 00:34:22.480
said CCN of expedited release Commission issued an order
00:34:22.480 --> 00:34:23.423
in October.
00:34:25.460 --> 00:34:27.220
Rocket filed motions for rehearing.
00:34:27.220 --> 00:34:28.053
The Commissioner extended time.
00:34:28.053 --> 00:34:30.010
Diacted December 2nd, open meeting.
00:34:30.010 --> 00:34:35.010
Commissioner Glotfelty has another wonderful memo.
00:34:35.090 --> 00:34:36.153
And speech, I hope?
00:34:37.100 --> 00:34:39.417
You want me to give it again?
00:34:41.769 --> 00:34:42.602
Ditto, Sir.
00:34:42.602 --> 00:34:43.435
Just tell me where I can buy a ticket.
00:34:43.435 --> 00:34:45.400
(laughter)
00:34:45.400 --> 00:34:46.930
They're not for sale.
00:34:46.930 --> 00:34:47.770
All right, this seems,
00:34:47.770 --> 00:34:51.593
this is a very similar item to item number three.
00:34:52.640 --> 00:34:53.911
We were wrong.
00:34:53.911 --> 00:34:56.063
(laughter) Never.
00:34:57.833 --> 00:35:02.530
Same issues that have been well-articulated.
00:35:02.530 --> 00:35:04.520
So unless there are any questions or comments,
00:35:04.520 --> 00:35:06.520
I'll entertain a motion to grant re-hearing only
00:35:06.520 --> 00:35:09.100
for the reasons addressed and permission of Glotfelty's memo
00:35:09.100 --> 00:35:10.910
and directly with PDM to prepare an order
00:35:10.910 --> 00:35:13.950
on re-hearing with those changes.
00:35:13.950 --> 00:35:15.840
So moved.
Second.
00:35:15.840 --> 00:35:16.673
All in favor, say aye.
00:35:16.673 --> 00:35:17.850
Aye.
00:35:17.850 --> 00:35:19.943
None opposed, motion passes.
00:35:20.910 --> 00:35:22.160
Next item, please, Sir.
00:35:22.160 --> 00:35:24.820
Item six is docket 52090,
00:35:24.820 --> 00:35:26.543
petition of Red Bird Development.
00:35:27.500 --> 00:35:30.290
Two men, Dobbin Plotterveils, WFC certificate
00:35:30.290 --> 00:35:32.940
by expedited release, the Commission issued an order.
00:35:34.380 --> 00:35:39.023
In October, Dobbin Plotterveils has filed
00:35:39.023 --> 00:35:41.450
a motion for a re-hearing, the Commission extended a time
00:35:41.450 --> 00:35:42.690
to act, a December 2nd.
00:35:42.690 --> 00:35:45.980
Commissioner Glotfelty has another memo.
00:35:45.980 --> 00:35:48.680
Same beautiful memo, same issue.
00:35:48.680 --> 00:35:50.840
Comes really timely on my part, it's historic.
00:35:50.840 --> 00:35:54.170
I mean you're in the history of the Commission though.
00:35:54.170 --> 00:35:56.760
This day will be remembered for generations,
00:35:56.760 --> 00:35:58.206
Commissioner Glotfelty.
In infamy.
00:35:58.206 --> 00:35:59.570
(laughter)
00:35:59.570 --> 00:36:02.190
Is there a motion to grant rearing only for the reasons
00:36:02.190 --> 00:36:04.080
addressed in Commissioner Glotfelty's memo
00:36:04.080 --> 00:36:05.570
and directed to them to prepare an order
00:36:05.570 --> 00:36:06.830
on rehearing with those changes?
00:36:06.830 --> 00:36:09.300
So moved.
Second.
00:36:09.300 --> 00:36:10.420
All in favor, say aye.
00:36:10.420 --> 00:36:11.253
Aye.
00:36:11.253 --> 00:36:12.840
None opposed, the motion passes.
00:36:12.840 --> 00:36:14.600
Item seven was consented.
00:36:14.600 --> 00:36:16.172
I don't have anything on item eight,
00:36:16.172 --> 00:36:20.593
which takes us to item nine, Mr. Jurnae?
00:36:22.100 --> 00:36:25.290
Item nine is docket 51470, application
00:36:25.290 --> 00:36:27.810
of people's telephone cooperative for approval
00:36:27.810 --> 00:36:30.973
of alternative technology for polar obligations.
00:36:32.710 --> 00:36:36.060
People's filed a motion to withdraw its application
00:36:36.060 --> 00:36:38.360
on December 13th because a proposed order
00:36:38.360 --> 00:36:39.970
has already been issued.
00:36:39.970 --> 00:36:41.970
The Commission must address this motion.
00:36:44.200 --> 00:36:45.753
We'll call it.
00:36:47.817 --> 00:36:49.192
I don't know if she wants to say anything.
00:36:49.192 --> 00:36:52.185
I'd be proud to clear this up since I was
00:36:52.185 --> 00:36:56.250
the one who muddied the water on people's, but...
00:36:56.250 --> 00:36:58.380
All right, then the floor is yours.
00:36:58.380 --> 00:37:01.870
This application was always discretionary in nature.
00:37:01.870 --> 00:37:04.670
Since the circumstances have changed and they had
00:37:04.670 --> 00:37:07.810
the discretion to withdraw and thus the reasons
00:37:07.810 --> 00:37:10.860
for good cause is I believe, clearly there
00:37:10.860 --> 00:37:13.103
to grant their request to withdraw.
00:37:14.396 --> 00:37:15.260
It's pretty straightforward.
00:37:15.260 --> 00:37:16.660
Pretty straightforward.
00:37:16.660 --> 00:37:19.210
Comments, questions, or a motion to grant
00:37:19.210 --> 00:37:21.260
the motion for withdrawal based on the reasons stated
00:37:21.260 --> 00:37:23.490
in people's telephone cooperatives motion?
00:37:23.490 --> 00:37:24.940
So moved.
Second.
00:37:24.940 --> 00:37:25.773
All in favor, say aye.
00:37:25.773 --> 00:37:27.150
Aye.
00:37:27.150 --> 00:37:28.103
Motion passes.
00:37:30.360 --> 00:37:32.320
Item number 10.
00:37:32.320 --> 00:37:34.433
Item 10 is docket 52147,
00:37:34.433 --> 00:37:36.780
it's the application of Echo Wireless Broadband
00:37:36.780 --> 00:37:39.310
to relinquish its ETC designation.
00:37:39.310 --> 00:37:42.060
And it's also the application of Resound Networks
00:37:42.060 --> 00:37:45.160
to amend its ETC designation.
00:37:45.160 --> 00:37:47.800
A revised proposed order was filed on October 1st.
00:37:47.800 --> 00:37:50.390
No exceptions or corrections have been filed.
00:37:50.390 --> 00:37:52.800
Commissioner Lake has a memo.
00:37:52.800 --> 00:37:56.430
I'll be standing next to Commissioner Glotfelty's memo.
00:37:56.430 --> 00:37:59.600
I'd merely call it chicken scratch on a post-it note.
00:37:59.600 --> 00:38:00.433
The...
00:38:02.470 --> 00:38:03.932
Maybe two or three post-it notes.
00:38:03.932 --> 00:38:04.765
It was long.
00:38:04.765 --> 00:38:05.598
It was long.
00:38:05.598 --> 00:38:08.660
I don't have the articulate capabilities
00:38:08.660 --> 00:38:10.623
that Commissioner Glotfelty has.
00:38:12.950 --> 00:38:15.650
I apologize, it took me so long
00:38:15.650 --> 00:38:18.473
to pack in a simple firming up of language
00:38:18.473 --> 00:38:21.170
so that when the federal approvals,
00:38:21.170 --> 00:38:23.970
just making sure that the federal approvals are
00:38:24.938 --> 00:38:26.970
a formal papered, stamped, not just a notice
00:38:26.970 --> 00:38:31.970
or an informal notice, but otherwise it's,
00:38:32.680 --> 00:38:34.830
as you saw my memo, this makes sense to me.
00:38:36.250 --> 00:38:37.313
Questions, comments?
00:38:38.417 --> 00:38:40.420
I did see a few typos in there
00:38:40.420 --> 00:38:42.790
and wish we could get those corrected.
00:38:42.790 --> 00:38:47.703
I apologize sincerely and beg for your forgiveness.
00:38:49.030 --> 00:38:51.100
Is there a motion to approve the proposed order
00:38:51.100 --> 00:38:51.933
as amended by the memo?
00:38:51.933 --> 00:38:53.670
So moved.
So moved.
00:38:53.670 --> 00:38:54.503
Second.
00:38:54.503 --> 00:38:55.530
All in favor, say aye.
00:38:55.530 --> 00:38:56.510
Aye.
00:38:56.510 --> 00:38:58.010
None opposed, motion passes.
00:38:58.860 --> 00:39:00.610
We don't have anything on item 11,
00:39:00.610 --> 00:39:03.610
which brings us to item number 12.
00:39:03.610 --> 00:39:05.450
I just want to note that I'm recused from this one.
00:39:05.450 --> 00:39:07.550
Steven, I don't think you read this one out.
00:39:07.550 --> 00:39:09.190
I know because it wasn't consented.
00:39:09.190 --> 00:39:11.150
I was going to catch it right now,
00:39:11.150 --> 00:39:15.910
but item 12 is docket 51381
00:39:15.910 --> 00:39:18.120
is the application of Entergy to establish
00:39:18.120 --> 00:39:19.900
a generation cost recovery rider
00:39:19.900 --> 00:39:22.360
for their Montgomery Power Station.
00:39:22.360 --> 00:39:24.590
A proposed order was filed on December 16th.
00:39:24.590 --> 00:39:27.093
No exceptions or corrections have been filed.
00:39:28.220 --> 00:39:29.110
Thank you, Sir.
00:39:29.110 --> 00:39:33.610
I think overall the proposed order looks good.
00:39:33.610 --> 00:39:36.799
The only item to be addressed
00:39:36.799 --> 00:39:40.100
in my viewing is that the relayed back riders
00:39:40.100 --> 00:39:42.006
should be administered in a separate docket
00:39:42.006 --> 00:39:46.160
to make sure we have a clean separation
00:39:46.160 --> 00:39:48.693
in case of any further proceedings on either item.
00:39:49.730 --> 00:39:52.400
Yeah, and just to dovetail on that, Mr. Chairman,
00:39:52.400 --> 00:39:56.283
I think it's important that the parties agreed
00:39:56.283 --> 00:39:59.430
in settlement on methodology and everything else,
00:39:59.430 --> 00:40:01.103
but at the separate docket is certainly warranted
00:40:01.103 --> 00:40:04.010
because you don't know the numbers involved yet.
00:40:04.010 --> 00:40:06.290
So if we're trying to adhere to the spirit
00:40:06.290 --> 00:40:08.920
of these settlements, then let's adhere
00:40:08.920 --> 00:40:10.470
to the spirit of the settlements where they
00:40:10.470 --> 00:40:13.390
can actively consider that as well as we.
00:40:13.390 --> 00:40:14.223
Yeah, that's a good point.
00:40:14.223 --> 00:40:15.940
There's a financial component as well
00:40:15.940 --> 00:40:16.850
is a logistic component.
00:40:16.850 --> 00:40:18.220
Right.
00:40:18.220 --> 00:40:20.640
All right, any thoughts?
00:40:20.640 --> 00:40:21.473
Agreed.
00:40:22.340 --> 00:40:24.790
All right is there a motion to approve the proposed order
00:40:24.790 --> 00:40:26.530
with modification to direct the parties
00:40:26.530 --> 00:40:29.887
to require Entergy to file its relate back rider tariff
00:40:29.887 --> 00:40:31.380
and a separate docket?
00:40:31.380 --> 00:40:33.430
So moved.
Second.
00:40:33.430 --> 00:40:34.626
All in favor, say aye.
00:40:34.626 --> 00:40:36.140
Aye.
00:40:36.140 --> 00:40:37.910
None opposed, the motion passes.
00:40:37.910 --> 00:40:40.130
Item 13 and 14 were consented,
00:40:40.130 --> 00:40:42.140
which takes us to item 15.
00:40:42.140 --> 00:40:44.503
Item 15 is docket 51966.
00:40:45.470 --> 00:40:49.340
It's an agreed NOB relating to Entergy,
00:40:49.340 --> 00:40:52.757
Texas violation of pure Commission rules.
00:40:52.757 --> 00:40:56.140
The revised proposed order was filed on September 27th.
00:40:56.140 --> 00:40:59.090
No exceptions or corrections have been filed to that order.
00:41:01.000 --> 00:41:01.973
Thank you, Sir.
00:41:04.980 --> 00:41:07.590
I hear a chainsaw revving in the background.
00:41:07.590 --> 00:41:08.423
So...
00:41:08.423 --> 00:41:09.256
Vroom!
00:41:09.256 --> 00:41:11.515
You don't feel before to thoughts, questions,
00:41:11.515 --> 00:41:12.973
comments on this item?
00:41:14.384 --> 00:41:15.660
Overall...
00:41:15.660 --> 00:41:17.237
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
00:41:17.237 --> 00:41:19.310
All I have written in my notes
00:41:19.310 --> 00:41:21.737
is, "Oppose the penalty 'cause it's too low,
00:41:21.737 --> 00:41:23.337
"work not being completed,
00:41:23.337 --> 00:41:25.397
"no timeline for completion,
00:41:25.397 --> 00:41:27.007
"implementation of new measures,
00:41:27.007 --> 00:41:29.707
"eighth consecutive year of duration outage problems."
00:41:31.080 --> 00:41:33.970
I was going to tee you up for all this, but...
00:41:33.970 --> 00:41:35.763
We have to do better.
00:41:35.763 --> 00:41:38.280
We have to do better for our consumers.
00:41:38.280 --> 00:41:41.650
I will just refer back to my previous statement
00:41:41.650 --> 00:41:43.623
about your brilliant brevity.
00:41:45.090 --> 00:41:46.240
Well put.
Thank you.
00:41:47.730 --> 00:41:48.630
Howdy Barksdale.
00:41:53.080 --> 00:41:55.230
Good morning, Commissioners, how are you?
00:41:56.640 --> 00:41:59.040
Barksdale English on behalf of Commission staff.
00:42:00.260 --> 00:42:01.880
I appreciate your comments, Sir.
00:42:01.880 --> 00:42:04.140
And thank you for the focus and attention
00:42:04.140 --> 00:42:07.623
to these important electric service quality cases.
00:42:08.710 --> 00:42:11.520
We of course, are always happy to take your direction
00:42:11.520 --> 00:42:13.473
and try again and do better.
00:42:14.610 --> 00:42:16.560
One thing that I would like to just make a note
00:42:16.560 --> 00:42:19.800
for the Commission as a whole is that
00:42:19.800 --> 00:42:22.083
these cases are from 2019.
00:42:23.930 --> 00:42:27.780
They had been negotiated prior to the Division
00:42:27.780 --> 00:42:31.230
of Compliance and Enforcement being reconstituted.
00:42:31.230 --> 00:42:33.200
And so we were trying to preserve
00:42:33.200 --> 00:42:37.430
the settlement that had existed prior to then,
00:42:37.430 --> 00:42:40.150
so that we could try to move through these cases
00:42:40.150 --> 00:42:43.890
and then turn our attention to the 2020 cases.
00:42:43.890 --> 00:42:47.220
And then the 2021 cases whose reports
00:42:47.220 --> 00:42:49.840
will be filed in February.
00:42:49.840 --> 00:42:52.750
So we of course will take your direction
00:42:52.750 --> 00:42:54.593
and do as you please.
00:42:56.115 --> 00:42:57.630
And he makes a great point.
00:42:57.630 --> 00:43:01.860
I mean, these are old, we have to see improvement.
00:43:01.860 --> 00:43:05.623
We hope to see improvement in the 2020 and the 2021 filings.
00:43:06.740 --> 00:43:11.320
I would support the settlement in spite of the fact
00:43:11.320 --> 00:43:13.383
that I think it's too low, in spite of the fact
00:43:13.383 --> 00:43:16.520
that what I just mentioned, we have to see improvement.
00:43:16.520 --> 00:43:20.160
We've got to see improvement and I'm willing to let these
00:43:20.160 --> 00:43:23.311
this past happen and take the newer cases,
00:43:23.311 --> 00:43:26.923
and make our points on newer cases when they come up.
00:43:29.380 --> 00:43:31.053
I just wanted to add I,
00:43:32.150 --> 00:43:34.180
and thank you Barksdale for that clarification.
00:43:34.180 --> 00:43:38.000
I think it is important to understand that the facts
00:43:38.000 --> 00:43:39.900
behind where we're at today with respect
00:43:39.900 --> 00:43:41.300
to the settlement agreement,
00:43:42.290 --> 00:43:44.040
I think that I'm comfortable approving
00:43:44.040 --> 00:43:46.740
the proposed order, but there are some questions
00:43:46.740 --> 00:43:49.290
I still have that I think we will, we'll need
00:43:49.290 --> 00:43:50.930
from Entergy just to have in the record.
00:43:50.930 --> 00:43:52.780
And that's implementation timelines
00:43:52.780 --> 00:43:56.640
for specific corrective measures, for instance,
00:43:56.640 --> 00:43:58.920
there are three specific corrective measures
00:43:58.920 --> 00:44:00.590
that we don't have a timeline as to
00:44:00.590 --> 00:44:02.260
when that will be put in place.
00:44:02.260 --> 00:44:04.667
And that is the installation of new reclosers
00:44:04.667 --> 00:44:05.717
for sectionalization,
00:44:06.690 --> 00:44:09.090
guidelines for infrared inspections
00:44:09.090 --> 00:44:10.760
to identify hotspots on feeders
00:44:10.760 --> 00:44:12.263
to reduce equipment failures,
00:44:13.240 --> 00:44:15.770
the Tree Growth Regulator Program
00:44:15.770 --> 00:44:17.890
to increase treatment cycles,
00:44:17.890 --> 00:44:19.680
vegetation manager in there at elite.
00:44:19.680 --> 00:44:20.550
Yep.
00:44:20.550 --> 00:44:22.390
I think the company provided a substantial amount
00:44:22.390 --> 00:44:25.840
of information to help us understand most of the case.
00:44:25.840 --> 00:44:29.420
I think these three measures don't have actual timelines
00:44:29.420 --> 00:44:30.300
for implementation,
00:44:30.300 --> 00:44:31.850
and it would be helpful to understand that
00:44:31.850 --> 00:44:33.400
from the company so we can make sure
00:44:33.400 --> 00:44:34.950
that these corrective measures are actually going
00:44:34.950 --> 00:44:38.470
to be put in place to address these issues in the future.
00:44:38.470 --> 00:44:43.150
Yeah, and I would echo that from my colleagues.
00:44:43.150 --> 00:44:44.960
That was my question is timelines.
00:44:44.960 --> 00:44:46.260
Look, at the end of the day,
00:44:46.260 --> 00:44:49.050
I'm just going to repeat what I have said
00:44:49.050 --> 00:44:51.900
and everybody consistently agreed with,
00:44:51.900 --> 00:44:55.690
that we need to enshrine mechanisms for accountability
00:44:55.690 --> 00:44:58.760
that Barksdale and his division can check for,
00:44:58.760 --> 00:45:02.100
and that the utilities themselves can follow through one
00:45:02.100 --> 00:45:04.210
so that reliability is increased
00:45:04.210 --> 00:45:07.803
and we see these incidents decline over time.
00:45:09.754 --> 00:45:12.760
It's a question of what's the tool that we use
00:45:12.760 --> 00:45:14.490
to get this message across.
00:45:14.490 --> 00:45:18.040
This is one of those tools that we have near-term.
00:45:18.040 --> 00:45:20.192
Granted, it's dealing with a previous case,
00:45:20.192 --> 00:45:22.710
a previous settlement prior to the new Commission,
00:45:22.710 --> 00:45:25.930
prior to this new doctrine that we're trying to reinforce,
00:45:25.930 --> 00:45:30.860
but I'd rather do it here than in a rate case.
00:45:30.860 --> 00:45:32.640
When we're talking about return on equity
00:45:32.640 --> 00:45:33.810
because of treatment, I mean,
00:45:33.810 --> 00:45:36.470
I want healthy utilities doing the right things
00:45:36.470 --> 00:45:38.348
so that they can go out and provide the service
00:45:38.348 --> 00:45:40.680
to growing areas of Texas.
00:45:40.680 --> 00:45:42.570
So like my colleagues,
00:45:42.570 --> 00:45:44.380
I'm willing to approve this right now,
00:45:44.380 --> 00:45:47.810
but there's other incidents coming up in the near future,
00:45:47.810 --> 00:45:50.640
other proceedings coming up in the near future
00:45:50.640 --> 00:45:52.820
where I don't want things to get out of hand
00:45:52.820 --> 00:45:54.170
where we can try to address this
00:45:54.170 --> 00:45:55.860
and get the information we need
00:45:55.860 --> 00:45:58.593
to give us comfort that reliability will improve.
00:45:59.650 --> 00:46:00.817
So the question really is,
00:46:00.817 --> 00:46:02.963
and maybe I need to clarify,
00:46:05.110 --> 00:46:07.350
do we want to remand to make sure we get information
00:46:07.350 --> 00:46:08.950
on when they're going to implement
00:46:08.950 --> 00:46:11.200
these three specific measures
00:46:11.200 --> 00:46:13.590
and then consider the proposed order,
00:46:13.590 --> 00:46:16.280
or are we comfortable approving the proposed order
00:46:16.280 --> 00:46:20.690
as is right now without that information in the record?
00:46:20.690 --> 00:46:23.110
That's exactly the decision point.
00:46:23.110 --> 00:46:27.050
I agree with everything that you all have said,
00:46:27.050 --> 00:46:30.083
and I think you captured that decision point perfectly,
00:46:30.083 --> 00:46:32.220
and it very much hinges on,
00:46:32.220 --> 00:46:34.963
I think consideration is staff bandwidth.
00:46:36.460 --> 00:46:40.730
And one other option, and that is to accept it here,
00:46:40.730 --> 00:46:42.610
but at ordering paragraphs in this order
00:46:42.610 --> 00:46:45.690
to tell them in their filing coming up
00:46:45.690 --> 00:46:48.630
in February to address these timelines,
00:46:48.630 --> 00:46:49.463
and not only that,
00:46:49.463 --> 00:46:51.590
but what activities they've already engaged in
00:46:51.590 --> 00:46:52.423
in these areas.
00:46:53.540 --> 00:46:55.270
And what report is that in January?
00:46:55.270 --> 00:46:56.620
It's their annual report.
00:46:57.871 --> 00:46:59.990
Proceeding their rate case.
00:46:59.990 --> 00:47:01.190
No, Sir, it would be for
00:47:01.190 --> 00:47:04.969
the electric service quality reports that's due every year.
00:47:04.969 --> 00:47:06.323
Yes, Sir.
00:47:06.323 --> 00:47:08.703
I think that's an outstanding idea.
00:47:09.580 --> 00:47:13.090
And I would actually ask Commissioner Cobos
00:47:13.090 --> 00:47:14.710
to go through her list that she just read
00:47:14.710 --> 00:47:17.540
and include that in the ordering paragraph.
00:47:17.540 --> 00:47:18.373
Yes, agreed.
00:47:18.373 --> 00:47:19.904
I think that's an efficient way of moving forward.
00:47:19.904 --> 00:47:22.370
I mean, bullet point by bullet point
00:47:22.370 --> 00:47:25.003
and more importantly, and more broadly,
00:47:27.260 --> 00:47:32.260
let this serve as a notice to all of our stakeholders
00:47:32.320 --> 00:47:36.430
that going forward, we're not going to renegotiate
00:47:36.430 --> 00:47:39.340
past settlements and we're going to look ahead,
00:47:39.340 --> 00:47:43.237
but going forward, the items Commissioner Cobos
00:47:43.237 --> 00:47:47.920
laid out in the headlines that you just articulated.
00:47:47.920 --> 00:47:50.920
Well, not those, those will not be overlooked
00:47:50.920 --> 00:47:55.920
or neglected going forward and that this Commission,
00:47:58.420 --> 00:48:01.970
going forward, does not want Commissioner Glotfelty
00:48:01.970 --> 00:48:06.970
to have to read those four headlines again, is that fair?
00:48:07.940 --> 00:48:09.650
I believe so.
00:48:09.650 --> 00:48:11.928
So we'll move forward on this one.
00:48:11.928 --> 00:48:14.670
We'll, we can proceed on this
00:48:14.670 --> 00:48:17.230
with the ordering paragraph that we just discussed.
00:48:17.230 --> 00:48:19.130
They're going forward as a Commission,
00:48:20.070 --> 00:48:25.070
we will be taking a much more focused, disciplined,
00:48:25.760 --> 00:48:29.650
look at these issues and be requiring
00:48:29.650 --> 00:48:32.150
a higher level of accountability.
00:48:32.150 --> 00:48:34.437
And Chairman, if I can just publicly commit to you
00:48:34.437 --> 00:48:36.520
and the rest of the Commissioners that starting
00:48:36.520 --> 00:48:39.420
with the 2020 cases, we're going
00:48:39.420 --> 00:48:41.060
to do something completely different.
00:48:41.060 --> 00:48:43.000
And Thomas, and Connie, and I
00:48:43.000 --> 00:48:44.547
have started conversations about
00:48:44.547 --> 00:48:46.136
what does effective enforcement
00:48:46.136 --> 00:48:48.513
of electric service quality mean?
00:48:49.561 --> 00:48:52.280
The paradigm that we've been using for the last 10 years
00:48:52.280 --> 00:48:55.300
is not meeting the standard that you all are looking for.
00:48:55.300 --> 00:48:57.650
And we hear that and we recognize that, and we're going
00:48:57.650 --> 00:48:59.970
to come with something completely new
00:48:59.970 --> 00:49:04.070
and different starting with the 2020 cases.
00:49:04.070 --> 00:49:05.420
I appreciate that Barksdale.
00:49:05.420 --> 00:49:07.990
And as a capstone on this, also,
00:49:07.990 --> 00:49:10.506
I want to wrap this conversation
00:49:10.506 --> 00:49:13.560
with Commissioner McAdam's point
00:49:13.560 --> 00:49:16.860
that we want to solve this problem in your division,
00:49:16.860 --> 00:49:17.936
not in return on equity.
00:49:17.936 --> 00:49:19.280
Correct.
Absolutely.
00:49:19.280 --> 00:49:20.490
And we want that,
00:49:20.490 --> 00:49:22.400
this is where we want this problem solved.
00:49:22.400 --> 00:49:24.527
We don't want to have to deal with this
00:49:24.527 --> 00:49:27.314
and the big, that's a very good point.
00:49:27.314 --> 00:49:30.620
And that's we want it solved in your division,
00:49:30.620 --> 00:49:32.673
not in rate cases.
00:49:33.960 --> 00:49:35.490
All right.
00:49:35.490 --> 00:49:39.510
Is there a motion to approve the proposed order
00:49:39.510 --> 00:49:41.460
with an additional ordering paragraph
00:49:41.460 --> 00:49:43.020
as described by Mr. Jurnae?
00:49:43.020 --> 00:49:44.100
So moved.
00:49:44.100 --> 00:49:44.933
Second.
00:49:44.933 --> 00:49:45.940
All in favor, say aye.
00:49:45.940 --> 00:49:47.080
Aye.
00:49:47.080 --> 00:49:48.113
Motion passes.
00:49:49.210 --> 00:49:50.043
Thank you.
00:49:51.510 --> 00:49:52.570
I bring this to item 16.
00:49:52.570 --> 00:49:55.173
You may want to hang out for that too.
00:49:55.173 --> 00:49:58.260
Item 16 is docket 51972.
00:49:58.260 --> 00:50:02.600
It's the agreed NOV relating to violations
00:50:02.600 --> 00:50:05.273
by Center Point Energy of Commission rules.
00:50:07.890 --> 00:50:10.800
And PURA, a third revised proposed order
00:50:10.800 --> 00:50:12.240
was filed on November 2nd.
00:50:12.240 --> 00:50:15.573
No exceptions or corrections have been filed to that order.
00:50:20.480 --> 00:50:21.313
Ditto?
00:50:21.313 --> 00:50:22.630
I would say ditto.
00:50:22.630 --> 00:50:24.340
I do have one other thing to add on this,
00:50:24.340 --> 00:50:28.670
which was interesting to me and some of the comments that,
00:50:28.670 --> 00:50:32.141
or in some of the documentation, the percentage,
00:50:32.141 --> 00:50:37.090
the causes of the 2019 outages in this case.
00:50:37.090 --> 00:50:41.790
16.5% weather, 12.9% vegetation.
00:50:41.790 --> 00:50:44.300
So it may not have been as much vegetation.
00:50:44.300 --> 00:50:47.473
Wildlife, 8%, people, including cars and farm equipment,
00:50:47.473 --> 00:50:52.473
1%, utility-owned equipment, 20 almost 25%
00:50:53.120 --> 00:50:54.810
which mean aging infrastructure,
00:50:54.810 --> 00:50:56.410
something that has to be addressed.
00:50:56.410 --> 00:50:57.340
So M and A.
00:50:57.340 --> 00:51:00.240
And the largest percentage of things,
00:51:00.240 --> 00:51:04.280
a 36% is other or unknown.
00:51:04.280 --> 00:51:05.510
Hopefully we can get to the bottom of that
00:51:05.510 --> 00:51:07.540
in these future cases as well.
00:51:07.540 --> 00:51:08.373
Yeah.
00:51:10.720 --> 00:51:12.620
I'm just gonna leave that one alone.
00:51:13.790 --> 00:51:17.450
Ditto, and ditto on the others to ordering paragraph?
00:51:17.450 --> 00:51:18.390
Yes.
00:51:18.390 --> 00:51:19.300
Or no.
00:51:19.300 --> 00:51:20.222
We don't hear it on this one.
00:51:20.222 --> 00:51:21.940
We don't hear on that one, sorry.
00:51:21.940 --> 00:51:22.773
All right.
00:51:23.660 --> 00:51:26.933
Ditto on the talking points.
00:51:28.088 --> 00:51:28.921
Is there a motion to approve
00:51:28.921 --> 00:51:30.140
the third revised proposed order?
00:51:30.140 --> 00:51:31.560
So moved.
Second.
00:51:31.560 --> 00:51:32.528
All in favor, say aye.
00:51:32.528 --> 00:51:33.470
Aye.
00:51:33.470 --> 00:51:35.373
None opposed, the motion passes.
00:51:36.530 --> 00:51:38.993
Thank you, Barksdale.
00:51:38.993 --> 00:51:43.993
Item 17 through 24 were consented,
00:51:45.140 --> 00:51:49.273
which brings us to gender item 25.
00:51:51.423 --> 00:51:52.950
I believe Commissioner Glotfelty
00:51:52.950 --> 00:51:55.640
has some comments to share with us here.
00:51:55.640 --> 00:51:58.020
I do, thank you very much.
00:51:58.020 --> 00:52:00.313
Let me get my documents here in order.
00:52:02.150 --> 00:52:07.050
So I wanted to give you all an update on this docket,
00:52:07.050 --> 00:52:09.703
which deals with the Southern Cross Transmission Line.
00:52:11.110 --> 00:52:12.030
To preface it,
00:52:12.030 --> 00:52:15.350
I'm going to put out a Commissioner memo
00:52:15.350 --> 00:52:17.540
for our next meeting in late January
00:52:17.540 --> 00:52:18.930
with some proposed recommendations,
00:52:18.930 --> 00:52:21.080
but want to kind of give a preview of that.
00:52:22.249 --> 00:52:26.890
Well, I appreciate all of the parties filing comments.
00:52:26.890 --> 00:52:30.550
We had approved a previous comment deadline of December six,
00:52:30.550 --> 00:52:34.240
and we've received more than a dozen,
00:52:34.240 --> 00:52:37.550
less than two dozen comments, but very informative.
00:52:37.550 --> 00:52:40.890
This is a docket that has been going on for nine years.
00:52:40.890 --> 00:52:44.830
Most of the people in the Commission have been long gone.
00:52:44.830 --> 00:52:46.534
So getting some background on this
00:52:46.534 --> 00:52:48.990
into the record is important.
00:52:48.990 --> 00:52:52.020
And I appreciate all of those folks
00:52:52.020 --> 00:52:54.390
that are interested in this.
00:52:54.390 --> 00:52:57.290
Part of this issue for me is
00:52:57.290 --> 00:53:01.050
the capacity of DC lines and DC interconnects
00:53:01.050 --> 00:53:05.180
to other regions help us with the reliability components.
00:53:05.180 --> 00:53:08.553
Part of this is just solving,
00:53:10.100 --> 00:53:14.710
not leaving open-ended regulatory structures in place.
00:53:14.710 --> 00:53:16.440
It doesn't do any good for companies
00:53:16.440 --> 00:53:18.290
that are trying to raise capital and such.
00:53:18.290 --> 00:53:21.490
And I don't think it's a good precedent here.
00:53:21.490 --> 00:53:25.460
And finally, the legislature asked us
00:53:25.460 --> 00:53:27.810
to look at the development of additional projects,
00:53:27.810 --> 00:53:30.120
including those and look to other regions.
00:53:30.120 --> 00:53:32.900
So kind of all of those are in capitals encapsulated
00:53:32.900 --> 00:53:37.900
in this, but none of them are totally resolved as of this.
00:53:39.270 --> 00:53:44.270
So specifically, this project has been under,
00:53:48.940 --> 00:53:51.610
has been trying to resolve the directives
00:53:51.610 --> 00:53:56.063
that this Commission gave the parties and ERCOT.
00:53:57.308 --> 00:53:58.360
ERCOT has come back and said
00:53:58.360 --> 00:54:00.610
they expect the directives that can be completed
00:54:00.610 --> 00:54:04.850
before September or August 22nd to be completed by then.
00:54:04.850 --> 00:54:06.990
And they will provide us updates along that way.
00:54:06.990 --> 00:54:08.520
I think that's a good timeline.
00:54:08.520 --> 00:54:11.060
I think all of the parties have agreed to that.
00:54:11.060 --> 00:54:14.050
And I think that holding ERCOT's feet to the fire
00:54:14.050 --> 00:54:15.469
and the industry's feet to the fire to do that
00:54:15.469 --> 00:54:17.163
is a positive thing.
00:54:21.260 --> 00:54:25.670
There are a number of other HVDC issues
00:54:25.670 --> 00:54:27.690
that I think are important for us to discuss
00:54:27.690 --> 00:54:31.420
in the context of what the legislature suggested.
00:54:31.420 --> 00:54:34.360
We are going to have to, at some point in time,
00:54:34.360 --> 00:54:36.580
open up a transmission planning we're making
00:54:36.580 --> 00:54:40.320
or rural process as a part of House Bill 1281.
00:54:40.320 --> 00:54:42.880
I suggest that we have this,
00:54:42.880 --> 00:54:44.640
that part of the discussion in there
00:54:44.640 --> 00:54:49.340
and include how HVDC lines are planned for
00:54:49.340 --> 00:54:52.530
at ERCOT and accounted for in the market process.
00:54:52.530 --> 00:54:54.690
That encompasses a lot and not ready
00:54:54.690 --> 00:54:56.630
to make any recommendations today
00:54:56.630 --> 00:55:00.400
because a lot of folks out here have a lot of input in that.
00:55:00.400 --> 00:55:01.683
And rightfully so.
00:55:03.030 --> 00:55:08.030
And finally, we have an export tariff in ERCOT
00:55:08.070 --> 00:55:13.070
that was created in our rules prior to the commencement
00:55:13.890 --> 00:55:16.400
of competition in our state.
00:55:16.400 --> 00:55:21.400
And the enforcement of it has been, as I understand,
00:55:21.580 --> 00:55:24.490
it has been different among different TDUs.
00:55:25.970 --> 00:55:30.090
Most of the trans, most of the DC ties and exports
00:55:30.090 --> 00:55:33.650
around out of our cod are really being handled by marketers,
00:55:33.650 --> 00:55:36.820
not the entities that own the lines.
00:55:36.820 --> 00:55:39.843
So that's an important discussion that we bring them in.
00:55:40.690 --> 00:55:44.180
If we, so my point is I hope
00:55:44.180 --> 00:55:48.623
that we can look at section 25, 192E,
00:55:49.470 --> 00:55:54.270
which is the export component of our transmission tariff.
00:55:54.270 --> 00:55:57.060
There are things in there that the industry
00:55:57.060 --> 00:56:02.060
deserves to have discussion on as does Southern Cross.
00:56:03.150 --> 00:56:04.960
My goal in this process is
00:56:04.960 --> 00:56:09.483
to get our regulatory review completed.
00:56:10.700 --> 00:56:12.890
Let's do it fairly, let's do it quickly.
00:56:12.890 --> 00:56:15.440
Let's get to the point where if Southern Cross can make
00:56:15.440 --> 00:56:18.093
a financial commitment and make this work for ERCOT,
00:56:19.100 --> 00:56:20.760
we should be out of the way to let that happen
00:56:20.760 --> 00:56:21.700
and archives should too.
00:56:21.700 --> 00:56:24.190
So that's my point.
00:56:24.190 --> 00:56:26.550
I will file a memo within the next two weeks
00:56:26.550 --> 00:56:29.410
for our meeting on the 27th to broaden it
00:56:29.410 --> 00:56:31.620
and be more specific on discussion items,
00:56:31.620 --> 00:56:34.820
but I wanted to highlight that for you all today.
00:56:34.820 --> 00:56:35.908
And if you all have any questions,
00:56:35.908 --> 00:56:37.313
I'm happy to answer them.
00:56:38.650 --> 00:56:39.920
Thank you for laying that out.
00:56:39.920 --> 00:56:44.180
I don't have any questions, but thank you, but when offered,
00:56:44.180 --> 00:56:47.390
thanks for taking you taking leadership on this.
00:56:47.390 --> 00:56:50.300
Yeah, so I'd echo your comments, Mr. Chair,
00:56:50.300 --> 00:56:51.927
and thank you, Commissioner Glotfelty
00:56:51.927 --> 00:56:54.850
for really addressing this, focusing on it,
00:56:54.850 --> 00:56:59.850
shining a laser on it so that we can remain focused.
00:56:59.980 --> 00:57:03.207
In terms of, and you'll specify this
00:57:03.207 --> 00:57:08.207
in your memo on tack 25, 192, subsection A,
00:57:09.500 --> 00:57:11.120
the export tariff.
00:57:11.120 --> 00:57:13.320
We're not going to tie that directly
00:57:13.320 --> 00:57:15.890
to the entire rulemaking of
00:57:15.890 --> 00:57:18.340
SB 1281 implementation, right?
00:57:18.340 --> 00:57:19.250
It will.
00:57:19.250 --> 00:57:20.310
Or do you envision that.
00:57:20.310 --> 00:57:23.120
I would envision a, I think we need to discuss that.
00:57:23.120 --> 00:57:26.070
I would, if we could do it,
00:57:26.070 --> 00:57:29.480
I would suggest that we have its own discussion
00:57:29.480 --> 00:57:32.430
and rulemaking discussion on 25, 192.
00:57:32.430 --> 00:57:36.650
And have a, the implementation of 1281
00:57:36.650 --> 00:57:39.194
be a separate component, a separate issue.
00:57:39.194 --> 00:57:41.110
Look forward to the memo.
00:57:41.110 --> 00:57:42.560
Yes, Sir.
00:57:42.560 --> 00:57:43.393
Good question.
00:57:45.410 --> 00:57:46.243
All right.
00:57:48.430 --> 00:57:49.481
That concludes business.
00:57:49.481 --> 00:57:50.314
Thank you.
00:57:50.314 --> 00:57:51.920
That concludes business on item 31.
00:57:51.920 --> 00:57:54.170
I don't have anything on items 32 through 39,
00:57:56.467 --> 00:57:57.335
which brings it...
00:57:57.335 --> 00:57:58.724
That was 25.
00:57:58.724 --> 00:57:59.557
Oh, 25.
00:58:04.190 --> 00:58:06.287
31 is very, very important.
00:58:09.210 --> 00:58:10.884
Right, we just did 31.
00:58:10.884 --> 00:58:13.177
No, we did 25.
00:58:13.177 --> 00:58:15.320
Oh 25, okay, sorry.
00:58:15.320 --> 00:58:17.543
Oh, sorry, 26 to 29.
00:58:20.000 --> 00:58:20.833
I jumped.
00:58:20.833 --> 00:58:22.150
Sorry, 40 and slipped there.
00:58:23.630 --> 00:58:25.723
Brings us to 30.
00:58:28.700 --> 00:58:29.650
Am I right on that?
00:58:30.928 --> 00:58:31.850
Yes, Sir.
00:58:31.850 --> 00:58:33.450
I think.
00:58:33.450 --> 00:58:34.558
All right, we've got...
00:58:34.558 --> 00:58:35.453
At 26 through 29.
00:58:40.870 --> 00:58:42.240
Yes, Sir, I believe we're to 30.
00:58:42.240 --> 00:58:45.340
All right, item 30 regarding market design.
00:58:45.340 --> 00:58:48.030
ERCOT filed a memo as requested
00:58:48.030 --> 00:58:51.113
by this Commission regarding implementation.
00:58:52.070 --> 00:58:54.810
Thank you, Christine Canoff for being here.
00:58:54.810 --> 00:58:58.460
I think we, there was an extraordinary amount
00:58:58.460 --> 00:59:01.100
of policy work done in 2021 by this Commission,
00:59:01.100 --> 00:59:04.633
or is it half of 2021 now we're in the implementation phase.
00:59:06.100 --> 00:59:10.260
I think it, there's a lot of important issues
00:59:10.260 --> 00:59:15.260
in that memo from ERCOT, but I think the most important,
00:59:16.987 --> 00:59:21.713
for right now the most important next step is
00:59:23.960 --> 00:59:27.600
to let the new ERCOT Board take a look at this
00:59:27.600 --> 00:59:32.600
and work with them to help chart a path forward.
00:59:32.940 --> 00:59:37.210
And so for, I think that'll start happening next week.
00:59:37.210 --> 00:59:39.210
So I think that's the most important next step.
00:59:39.210 --> 00:59:42.270
And then by our next Commission meeting,
00:59:42.270 --> 00:59:45.423
we'll have the pieces in place,
00:59:46.350 --> 00:59:48.440
continue to put the pieces in place
00:59:49.700 --> 00:59:51.900
and continue to move implementation forward.
00:59:54.195 --> 00:59:57.980
Chairman, like I think with respect to the ERCOT Board
00:59:57.980 --> 01:00:00.720
and their evaluation, I believe what you're talking about
01:00:00.720 --> 01:00:03.700
is the ERCOT budget and getting ERCOT
01:00:03.700 --> 01:00:06.880
the staff resources that we need to implement
01:00:06.880 --> 01:00:09.390
these very important directives that were provided
01:00:09.390 --> 01:00:11.540
to us by the Governor, the Legislature,
01:00:11.540 --> 01:00:14.500
and that we've spent a lot of time this past second half
01:00:14.500 --> 01:00:17.490
of the year, working on coming up with a blueprint.
01:00:17.490 --> 01:00:21.483
As I read through the ERCOT report, I myself,
01:00:23.240 --> 01:00:24.860
I have a lot of concerns.
01:00:24.860 --> 01:00:27.540
I have concerns with the long projected timelines
01:00:27.540 --> 01:00:28.820
that ERCOT put in the report.
01:00:28.820 --> 01:00:31.630
I know that they're trying to set expectations,
01:00:31.630 --> 01:00:32.880
but we have expectations.
01:00:32.880 --> 01:00:34.950
We have expectations that these products we put
01:00:34.950 --> 01:00:37.060
in the market as soon as possible.
01:00:37.060 --> 01:00:39.100
Two years is too long, it's unacceptable.
01:00:39.100 --> 01:00:41.840
We've been working really hard to get these items
01:00:41.840 --> 01:00:44.140
on a blueprint, to get implemented as soon as possible.
01:00:44.140 --> 01:00:46.580
I know ERCOT has resource constraints.
01:00:46.580 --> 01:00:48.930
Those resource constraints need to be evaluated
01:00:50.270 --> 01:00:52.560
by the leadership at ERCOT,
01:00:52.560 --> 01:00:57.330
by the Board, and ERCOT needs staff resources
01:00:57.330 --> 01:01:01.790
and contractors to ensure that ECRS is delivered
01:01:01.790 --> 01:01:04.140
on time before the EMS upgrade
01:01:04.140 --> 01:01:06.180
and to ensure that the market systems
01:01:06.180 --> 01:01:07.770
are going to be ready for ECRS.
01:01:07.770 --> 01:01:09.570
It would be completely unacceptable for ERCOT
01:01:09.570 --> 01:01:14.570
to miss the EMS upgrade freeze timeline in mid 2023.
01:01:14.590 --> 01:01:17.910
UCRS has been on the table for six years.
01:01:17.910 --> 01:01:20.397
Really, they've been talking about it since 2015, 2016,
01:01:20.397 --> 01:01:23.150
and NPR was introduced in 2019.
01:01:23.150 --> 01:01:23.983
Here we are.
01:01:23.983 --> 01:01:25.300
We're still waiting for ECRS.
01:01:25.300 --> 01:01:27.640
And now it is a priority for ERCOT
01:01:27.640 --> 01:01:30.300
and much needed for our market to deal with
01:01:30.300 --> 01:01:34.120
increasing amounts of renewable generation in the future.
01:01:34.120 --> 01:01:38.810
So I continue to support that ERCOT implement ECRS,
01:01:38.810 --> 01:01:42.850
but my main strong points here are that it stays on track.
01:01:42.850 --> 01:01:45.510
It must be delivered in the timeline
01:01:45.510 --> 01:01:50.430
that ERCOT provided before the EMS upgrade is completed.
01:01:50.430 --> 01:01:52.700
ERCOT must ensure that the market is ready
01:01:52.700 --> 01:01:54.373
to accommodate ECRS.
01:01:56.540 --> 01:01:58.600
ERCOT must ensure in my opinion,
01:01:58.600 --> 01:02:01.337
as they've asked for our guidance on firm fuel product
01:02:01.337 --> 01:02:03.920
and the backstop reliability service,
01:02:03.920 --> 01:02:05.530
they must ensure that the firm fuel product
01:02:05.530 --> 01:02:06.680
is in place by next winter.
01:02:06.680 --> 01:02:09.470
And what I mean by in place is that there's a product
01:02:09.470 --> 01:02:13.253
in the market, actively in the market by next winter.
01:02:14.330 --> 01:02:17.890
The legislature expects it, SB3 requires it.
01:02:17.890 --> 01:02:19.052
We need the firm fuel product
01:02:19.052 --> 01:02:21.880
in the market by winter 2023.
01:02:21.880 --> 01:02:24.900
And I would also say that we need to ensure that ERCOT
01:02:24.900 --> 01:02:29.343
delivers the backstop in 2023, as soon as possible.
01:02:31.434 --> 01:02:34.470
And I would like as ERCOT goes back
01:02:34.470 --> 01:02:37.560
and looks at their resources,
01:02:37.560 --> 01:02:40.271
looks at potential options to hire contractors,
01:02:40.271 --> 01:02:43.370
for them to come back and give us specific solutions
01:02:43.370 --> 01:02:45.730
and scenarios on how they plan to get these options
01:02:45.730 --> 01:02:48.030
in place to implement the very important directives
01:02:48.030 --> 01:02:51.420
that we've gotten from the Legislature and the Governor.
01:02:51.420 --> 01:02:56.310
And so with that, I mean, I would like to better understand,
01:02:56.310 --> 01:02:58.510
I know, Chairman, you kind of want to give
01:02:58.510 --> 01:03:00.300
ERCOT the opportunity to look at the budget
01:03:00.300 --> 01:03:01.970
and not is very important,
01:03:01.970 --> 01:03:04.420
but I really need to understand from ERCOT and Kanon,
01:03:04.420 --> 01:03:07.763
if you can, please step up.
01:03:09.938 --> 01:03:11.690
As I've said, we need to have the firm fuel product.
01:03:11.690 --> 01:03:14.880
I, from my opinion, the most important priorities
01:03:14.880 --> 01:03:19.727
from this report are to implement ECRS
01:03:20.970 --> 01:03:22.740
and the firm fuel product,
01:03:22.740 --> 01:03:25.090
and then look to implement the backstop reliability service
01:03:25.090 --> 01:03:27.000
as soon as possible after the implementation
01:03:27.000 --> 01:03:27.833
of the firm fuel product.
01:03:27.833 --> 01:03:29.898
So you asked for our guidance of what you want to,
01:03:29.898 --> 01:03:33.910
along with ECRS, what other product do you want from us?
01:03:33.910 --> 01:03:36.010
From my opinion, it's the firm fuel product first,
01:03:36.010 --> 01:03:39.630
and then BRS, the backstop reliability service.
01:03:39.630 --> 01:03:41.583
With respect to the firm fuel product,
01:03:43.892 --> 01:03:46.170
I think ERCOT needs to capitalize,
01:03:46.170 --> 01:03:48.220
as you've captured in your report,
01:03:48.220 --> 01:03:52.210
that ERCOT would capitalize in existing frameworks
01:03:52.210 --> 01:03:54.510
that they currently use for the procurement
01:03:54.510 --> 01:03:58.500
of emergency response service and black start service.
01:03:58.500 --> 01:04:00.220
We don't need to reinvent the wheel.
01:04:00.220 --> 01:04:02.380
We can, we need to be efficient in getting this process
01:04:02.380 --> 01:04:06.160
in place for the firm fuel product as soon as possible.
01:04:06.160 --> 01:04:08.450
And what I like to understand from you is
01:04:08.450 --> 01:04:11.340
what specific answers you need from us
01:04:11.340 --> 01:04:14.593
to put this product in the market by this next winter?
01:04:17.050 --> 01:04:18.823
Kanon Algalmam with ERCOT.
01:04:19.690 --> 01:04:23.670
So I think there's, I guess,
01:04:23.670 --> 01:04:28.440
five things that would get us to a point
01:04:28.440 --> 01:04:30.943
where we can start working on RF.
01:04:32.830 --> 01:04:34.980
I'm sorry, notable protocol changes
01:04:34.980 --> 01:04:38.580
that would give us the best chance
01:04:38.580 --> 01:04:42.480
to deliver something next winter.
01:04:42.480 --> 01:04:47.283
And those are, I guess, and in no particular order,
01:04:48.680 --> 01:04:51.440
we really need to procure it probably initially
01:04:51.440 --> 01:04:55.060
through an RFP of designing an auction.
01:04:55.060 --> 01:04:57.070
I think a lot of people will come to you and say,
01:04:57.070 --> 01:05:01.960
that's the better long-term answer, but that will take long,
01:05:02.930 --> 01:05:05.570
a longer term for us to design.
01:05:05.570 --> 01:05:08.640
So I think that's the first issue.
01:05:08.640 --> 01:05:10.970
The second is eligibility.
01:05:10.970 --> 01:05:15.970
So if we can focus on the onsite fuel first
01:05:19.380 --> 01:05:23.200
and try and at least issue the RFP
01:05:23.200 --> 01:05:27.630
in the next six months, so that we're starting
01:05:27.630 --> 01:05:31.510
to procure that at the start of next year
01:05:31.510 --> 01:05:34.190
or something along that timeline,
01:05:34.190 --> 01:05:37.250
that's really important for us.
01:05:37.250 --> 01:05:40.160
And then I think Commissioner Cobos actually alluded
01:05:40.160 --> 01:05:43.990
to this, but most of the work is on our settlement systems.
01:05:43.990 --> 01:05:48.550
So the more I can leverage existing items
01:05:48.550 --> 01:05:51.730
and do a manual work around, the better.
01:05:51.730 --> 01:05:56.707
So load ratio share allocation with billing
01:06:01.376 --> 01:06:06.130
and payment kind of on a quarterly basis,
01:06:06.130 --> 01:06:10.780
something similar, TERS if I can start writing
01:06:10.780 --> 01:06:14.540
an NPRR with those features in it,
01:06:14.540 --> 01:06:18.873
I think that gives us the best chance to move forward.
01:06:20.270 --> 01:06:22.940
So I'm hearing from you that we need to give you direction
01:06:22.940 --> 01:06:27.610
on moving forward with starting to develop NPRRs,
01:06:27.610 --> 01:06:29.760
that would be deemed urgent so we can move them
01:06:29.760 --> 01:06:31.840
through the stakeholder process or whatever process
01:06:31.840 --> 01:06:33.340
at ERCOT, as soon as possible.
01:06:35.040 --> 01:06:39.400
And those NPRRs would capture the procurement
01:06:39.400 --> 01:06:43.750
on an RFP, competitive RFP basis
01:06:43.750 --> 01:06:47.520
with costs being allocated on a load ratio share basis.
01:06:47.520 --> 01:06:52.520
And you would need to know the eligible resources
01:06:52.640 --> 01:06:53.760
as soon as possible.
01:06:53.760 --> 01:06:56.700
And you're saying that right now.
01:06:56.700 --> 01:06:58.810
Well, I think ERCOT has provided
01:06:58.810 --> 01:07:03.810
us statistics that right now we have about 4, 440.5 megawatts
01:07:04.960 --> 01:07:08.273
of onsite fuel oil storage that we know exists.
01:07:09.320 --> 01:07:12.640
So as we look at how,
01:07:12.640 --> 01:07:14.860
what resources are going to be eligible
01:07:14.860 --> 01:07:16.530
for the firm fuel product,
01:07:16.530 --> 01:07:18.560
we want to make sure that we're capturing
01:07:18.560 --> 01:07:21.733
what we can capture in that first RFP efficiently.
01:07:22.820 --> 01:07:24.920
In other words, that first RFP that goes out
01:07:24.920 --> 01:07:27.380
in the next six months, that it will capture
01:07:27.380 --> 01:07:30.653
what we're able to get, and then build up from there.
01:07:31.490 --> 01:07:33.940
SB3 talks about onsite storage.
01:07:33.940 --> 01:07:37.003
So we want to stay consistent with SB3.
01:07:38.670 --> 01:07:41.610
I, from my perspective, I think it sounds like
01:07:41.610 --> 01:07:42.990
what you're saying is we need to know
01:07:42.990 --> 01:07:45.630
the eligible resources relatively soon,
01:07:45.630 --> 01:07:50.010
so you can deliver the product in the winter of 2023?
01:07:50.010 --> 01:07:51.110
Can you expound on that?
01:07:51.110 --> 01:07:53.460
Yes, I think if we don't know,
01:07:53.460 --> 01:07:57.600
let's say there's other things that are eligible.
01:07:57.600 --> 01:08:01.160
If I was trying to design something for that
01:08:01.160 --> 01:08:04.620
and I don't know what that is,
01:08:04.620 --> 01:08:08.490
that will slow down and put delivery by next winter at risk.
01:08:08.490 --> 01:08:11.233
When you say slow down, does that mean prevent?
01:08:13.280 --> 01:08:17.880
By in terms of a winter delivery, more than likely, yes.
01:08:17.880 --> 01:08:21.180
Okay, so as we look to provide you feedback
01:08:21.180 --> 01:08:22.930
on eligible targeted resources,
01:08:22.930 --> 01:08:25.040
you need to know that as soon as possible?
01:08:25.040 --> 01:08:25.980
Yes.
Okay.
01:08:25.980 --> 01:08:28.410
So I know we still need to have discussions about that,
01:08:28.410 --> 01:08:32.170
but from my perspective, I think what exists today,
01:08:32.170 --> 01:08:36.120
onsite storage is important, right?
01:08:36.120 --> 01:08:37.530
That's an SB3.
01:08:37.530 --> 01:08:40.070
There are other items we can evaluate on the fringes,
01:08:40.070 --> 01:08:43.840
like offsite natural gas storage with the resource owner
01:08:43.840 --> 01:08:46.650
owning the transmission pipeline, potentially.
01:08:46.650 --> 01:08:49.450
But what I do think is going to be important from ERCOT.
01:08:51.270 --> 01:08:55.370
I think giving you the efficient feedback,
01:08:55.370 --> 01:08:57.020
the quick feedback you need to at least get
01:08:57.020 --> 01:08:59.650
that first RFP out, it sounds like it's important.
01:08:59.650 --> 01:09:01.250
But as we look to really get
01:09:01.250 --> 01:09:03.640
the universe of eligible resources,
01:09:03.640 --> 01:09:05.650
what I believe would be important would be
01:09:05.650 --> 01:09:08.093
for ERCOT to survey the generation resources,
01:09:08.093 --> 01:09:12.650
to understand how much onsite fuel oil storage
01:09:12.650 --> 01:09:14.810
infrastructure exists out there today
01:09:14.810 --> 01:09:16.040
that is not being used.
01:09:16.040 --> 01:09:20.220
That's not part of that 4, 440 megawatts that you have.
01:09:20.220 --> 01:09:24.640
And also how much offsite natural gas storage exists today,
01:09:24.640 --> 01:09:26.180
where the generation plant owner
01:09:26.180 --> 01:09:28.670
owns the transmission pipeline.
01:09:28.670 --> 01:09:29.980
I want to understand those figures
01:09:29.980 --> 01:09:32.610
because as we look to scale that first RFP,
01:09:32.610 --> 01:09:33.840
I don't want to under-scale
01:09:33.840 --> 01:09:35.810
if there's more megawatts out there.
01:09:35.810 --> 01:09:37.393
But it may be that that first RFP is just
01:09:37.393 --> 01:09:40.333
for the existing, what we know is out there,
01:09:40.333 --> 01:09:43.010
but the second one takes in a broader universe
01:09:43.010 --> 01:09:46.177
with more feedback and surveys.
01:09:46.177 --> 01:09:50.630
And let's not set the standard for the scaling yet.
01:09:50.630 --> 01:09:52.710
That's something that needs to be determined
01:09:52.710 --> 01:09:55.450
based on reliability needs.
01:09:55.450 --> 01:09:57.350
I know we've, we have consistently,
01:09:57.350 --> 01:10:01.530
as a Commission, said that we're going to require
01:10:01.530 --> 01:10:06.240
and pay for the resources or the performance we need,
01:10:06.240 --> 01:10:09.630
we're not just going to dump cash on existing clunkers.
01:10:09.630 --> 01:10:11.360
So I think, and we're going to, we,
01:10:11.360 --> 01:10:13.780
this Commission and ERCOT will be leveraging up
01:10:13.780 --> 01:10:16.650
outside resources to help us get to those answers
01:10:16.650 --> 01:10:18.760
as quickly as possible.
01:10:18.760 --> 01:10:21.480
And at some point, not only in firm fuel,
01:10:21.480 --> 01:10:23.870
but in backstop and various other initiatives,
01:10:23.870 --> 01:10:26.400
we will be bidding for more than the currently exist.
01:10:26.400 --> 01:10:27.380
That's the whole point.
01:10:27.380 --> 01:10:28.450
That's correct.
01:10:28.450 --> 01:10:30.840
We know we don't have enough firm fuel.
01:10:30.840 --> 01:10:33.700
We know we don't have enough backstop, et cetera, et cetera.
01:10:33.700 --> 01:10:36.960
So we will be bidding for more than it currently exists
01:10:36.960 --> 01:10:39.603
to incentivize the new resources that we need.
01:10:40.760 --> 01:10:42.090
We're not going to solve that today.
01:10:42.090 --> 01:10:47.090
I think your point is very well taken that the key point
01:10:47.690 --> 01:10:49.180
to make today is that we,
01:10:49.180 --> 01:10:51.510
both organizations will be leveraging up
01:10:51.510 --> 01:10:54.140
outside resources to help us as a Commission,
01:10:54.140 --> 01:10:56.660
make the decisions we need to make and get the information
01:10:56.660 --> 01:10:59.530
to you at ERCOT as soon as possible.
01:10:59.530 --> 01:11:03.150
And for ERCOT to implement the vast array
01:11:03.150 --> 01:11:06.603
of policy reforms that this Commission has made.
01:11:07.510 --> 01:11:10.270
So we, all of that,
01:11:10.270 --> 01:11:12.890
all of those things are important steps
01:11:12.890 --> 01:11:15.530
in moving this forward and implementing the reforms
01:11:15.530 --> 01:11:16.593
this grid needs.
01:11:17.550 --> 01:11:20.850
You're, I completely share your concerns
01:11:20.850 --> 01:11:21.873
about the timelines.
01:11:23.170 --> 01:11:24.940
And I think it's very,
01:11:24.940 --> 01:11:28.240
your request is for ERCOT identifying
01:11:28.240 --> 01:11:33.240
the existing assets is a very, is a very legitimate
01:11:33.292 --> 01:11:36.453
and an intelligent request.
01:11:37.710 --> 01:11:40.393
I'll ask ERCOT to get that to us as soon as possible.
01:11:42.090 --> 01:11:45.587
And as we, the ERCOT Board will be, is now fully,
01:11:47.498 --> 01:11:49.910
fully staffed or fully seated,
01:11:49.910 --> 01:11:53.700
and they'll be ramping up their work in the coming weeks.
01:11:53.700 --> 01:11:57.590
And so I know we will be leaning on that new leadership
01:11:57.590 --> 01:11:59.610
and new governance, as you said,
01:11:59.610 --> 01:12:02.123
to continue to improve.
01:12:02.123 --> 01:12:05.330
Continuous improvement is going to be
01:12:05.330 --> 01:12:07.940
a hallmark of ERCOT going forward.
01:12:07.940 --> 01:12:09.923
So well put, Commissioner Cobos.
01:12:11.520 --> 01:12:13.990
Any, I know we've got a memo from y'all
01:12:13.990 --> 01:12:15.290
that has a lot of questions in it.
01:12:15.290 --> 01:12:16.953
We don't need to go line by line
01:12:16.953 --> 01:12:21.953
on those now, but we've got a lot of work
01:12:22.780 --> 01:12:25.887
that's, and I think Commissioner Cobos
01:12:25.887 --> 01:12:29.860
and fellow Commissioners would echo the sentiment
01:12:29.860 --> 01:12:33.030
that we're, especially when it comes to firm fuel,
01:12:33.030 --> 01:12:35.430
we're not going to be working in probabilities
01:12:35.430 --> 01:12:39.430
or chances, or hope, hope is not a strategy.
01:12:39.430 --> 01:12:41.947
Hoping that it will be in place next winter is not
01:12:41.947 --> 01:12:43.394
the path we're going to go down.
01:12:43.394 --> 01:12:46.302
We're going to make sure we've got something in place
01:12:46.302 --> 01:12:48.680
as has been intended by the Legislation,
01:12:48.680 --> 01:12:51.198
the Governor, and this Commission.
01:12:51.198 --> 01:12:54.110
And Mr. Chairman, just to make a few comments,
01:12:54.110 --> 01:12:55.460
they did dovetail on yours.
01:12:57.560 --> 01:13:00.830
For the purposes, and man, I'm excited to see the Board
01:13:00.830 --> 01:13:02.630
fully comprised at ERCOT.
01:13:02.630 --> 01:13:05.250
We now have a functional governance structure
01:13:06.180 --> 01:13:08.033
as required by SB2.
01:13:08.930 --> 01:13:12.760
For the ISO, in terms of your memo,
01:13:12.760 --> 01:13:15.400
Kanon, I want to reinforce this.
01:13:15.400 --> 01:13:17.300
I know that you're squeezed on staff.
01:13:17.300 --> 01:13:19.000
We know that you're squeezed on staff,
01:13:19.000 --> 01:13:22.230
that the skill sets required
01:13:22.230 --> 01:13:25.270
under each one of these blueprint,
01:13:25.270 --> 01:13:29.570
modular blueprint initiatives, is unique to say the least,
01:13:29.570 --> 01:13:32.050
and there's not a lot of people out there
01:13:32.050 --> 01:13:33.130
that can do these things.
01:13:33.130 --> 01:13:35.840
However, and I know that you're searching for them.
01:13:35.840 --> 01:13:38.610
And ERCOT is considering implementation
01:13:39.590 --> 01:13:42.460
of retention programs and HR programs
01:13:42.460 --> 01:13:44.418
to attract this talent.
01:13:44.418 --> 01:13:48.230
I, as you move forward, and your memo is very good
01:13:48.230 --> 01:13:52.180
in delineating the necessary questions associated
01:13:52.180 --> 01:13:53.367
with each one of the initiatives
01:13:53.367 --> 01:13:57.650
and potentially the budget impacts
01:13:57.650 --> 01:13:59.480
of each one of those initiatives,
01:13:59.480 --> 01:14:03.690
if they happen as an individual item.
01:14:03.690 --> 01:14:06.377
But that blueprint was envisioned
01:14:06.377 --> 01:14:11.377
to address near-term and long-term resource adequacy needs
01:14:11.490 --> 01:14:12.790
of the system.
01:14:12.790 --> 01:14:16.350
And as such, we need, as Commissioner Cobos said,
01:14:16.350 --> 01:14:18.650
and the Chairmen double-downed on,
01:14:18.650 --> 01:14:21.240
we need several of those to be imposed
01:14:21.240 --> 01:14:23.251
in the next two years.
01:14:23.251 --> 01:14:26.480
We have received feedback offline from the legislature.
01:14:26.480 --> 01:14:27.853
They expect that.
01:14:28.970 --> 01:14:31.597
And as such, I know that you want to handle
01:14:31.597 --> 01:14:35.010
as much as you can in-house at ERCOT,
01:14:35.010 --> 01:14:36.800
but guidance just from me
01:14:36.800 --> 01:14:38.270
and I believe the rest of the Commissioners is,
01:14:38.270 --> 01:14:40.560
we are interested in you leveraging your position
01:14:40.560 --> 01:14:43.050
with third parties, moving forward
01:14:43.050 --> 01:14:46.990
for a timely implementation of the individual initiatives
01:14:46.990 --> 01:14:48.650
as a part of the blueprint.
01:14:48.650 --> 01:14:52.850
And so I know it's out of the comfort zone of the ISO,
01:14:52.850 --> 01:14:53.820
but in the near-term,
01:14:53.820 --> 01:14:56.260
until you hire up all those internal people,
01:14:56.260 --> 01:14:57.960
and this is a message for the Board,
01:14:57.960 --> 01:15:00.803
which will start discussing this next week.
01:15:02.260 --> 01:15:04.140
I know I, and I believe the rest of
01:15:04.140 --> 01:15:06.740
the Commissioners believe leveraging
01:15:06.740 --> 01:15:09.110
those third party firms is appropriate
01:15:09.110 --> 01:15:11.880
in the near-term, so that you can start onBoarding
01:15:11.880 --> 01:15:16.720
and then having a joint effort between ISO staff
01:15:16.720 --> 01:15:19.560
and those firms to make all this work.
01:15:19.560 --> 01:15:20.870
Well put, we're going to improvise,
01:15:20.870 --> 01:15:23.310
adapt, and overcome to get this done.
01:15:23.310 --> 01:15:28.310
And then finally, my view is, especially given
01:15:28.410 --> 01:15:31.300
the complexity of what, and the massive effort
01:15:31.300 --> 01:15:32.940
that we have taken as a part of the blueprint
01:15:32.940 --> 01:15:35.203
and that we're ordering ERCOT to undertake,
01:15:36.160 --> 01:15:40.660
we need to adhere, and we must adhere to the statute,
01:15:40.660 --> 01:15:43.470
the definitive points of the statute,
01:15:43.470 --> 01:15:46.210
not the ambiguous ones, where possible.
01:15:46.210 --> 01:15:50.800
And backup fuel service is definitive on key points.
01:15:50.800 --> 01:15:54.650
On-site fuel storage is clearly specified in the statute.
01:15:54.650 --> 01:15:57.204
And then it also says to ensure winter performance
01:15:57.204 --> 01:16:01.760
for several days with an S on day, that means plural.
01:16:01.760 --> 01:16:03.120
That means more than one.
01:16:03.120 --> 01:16:04.820
So as a starting point,
01:16:04.820 --> 01:16:07.760
we do have that specified in state laws.
01:16:07.760 --> 01:16:09.503
So frankly, it's already in effect now,
01:16:09.503 --> 01:16:10.850
I don't have a choice on it.
01:16:10.850 --> 01:16:12.410
Nobody else does either.
01:16:12.410 --> 01:16:15.570
So just be considering that
01:16:15.570 --> 01:16:17.560
as you're developing the mechanics,
01:16:17.560 --> 01:16:20.630
and as you discuss this with the Board on implementation
01:16:20.630 --> 01:16:23.593
on what we will need in the near-term, okay.
01:16:26.289 --> 01:16:30.960
I just have a few comments and you,
01:16:30.960 --> 01:16:33.520
I know that y'all got a lot on your agenda
01:16:33.520 --> 01:16:36.840
and we keep adding on other things with other requests,
01:16:36.840 --> 01:16:37.764
and this and that.
01:16:37.764 --> 01:16:40.653
And I'm sympathetic to that.
01:16:43.110 --> 01:16:44.550
There were a couple of things in this memo
01:16:44.550 --> 01:16:45.980
that didn't trouble me,
01:16:45.980 --> 01:16:50.580
but kinda like stuck out that were just weird to me.
01:16:50.580 --> 01:16:51.519
And it says, ERCOT,
01:16:51.519 --> 01:16:55.657
you wrote, "ERCOT conducted this analysis on the timelines
01:16:55.657 --> 01:16:57.147
"in a manner that best matches
01:16:57.147 --> 01:17:00.070
"the way ERCOT plans projects."
01:17:00.070 --> 01:17:03.260
And my question is, is that the best way to plan projects?
01:17:03.260 --> 01:17:04.900
Do you all have the best way,
01:17:04.900 --> 01:17:07.440
or is there another way that you could look
01:17:07.440 --> 01:17:09.920
to speed up the efforts here?
01:17:09.920 --> 01:17:13.190
And I'd love your comment on that.
01:17:13.190 --> 01:17:17.486
So there are always improvements
01:17:17.486 --> 01:17:19.890
and things that we can look at.
01:17:19.890 --> 01:17:24.090
The key thing I wanted to share with that is we look
01:17:24.090 --> 01:17:28.220
at each item and try and come up with the total hours
01:17:28.220 --> 01:17:31.130
it would take to deliver that project.
01:17:31.130 --> 01:17:33.010
And then the order that we work on,
01:17:33.010 --> 01:17:36.170
work it on is by priority.
01:17:36.170 --> 01:17:38.140
So as soon as I get one thing done,
01:17:38.140 --> 01:17:41.210
I work on the next priority.
01:17:41.210 --> 01:17:42.630
So that's the way we do it.
01:17:42.630 --> 01:17:44.980
That doesn't mean there aren't other things
01:17:44.980 --> 01:17:46.600
that we should look at,
01:17:46.600 --> 01:17:48.640
but that was the main point I was trying
01:17:48.640 --> 01:17:50.980
to make in that language.
01:17:50.980 --> 01:17:53.150
And I hope with what Commissioner McAdams said,
01:17:53.150 --> 01:17:55.620
in terms of leveraging third-party resources,
01:17:55.620 --> 01:17:58.160
maybe some of these can go in parallel.
01:17:58.160 --> 01:17:59.038
That's the idea, yes.
01:17:59.038 --> 01:18:01.690
And then they go into your process
01:18:01.690 --> 01:18:05.360
in the specific software implementation testing,
01:18:05.360 --> 01:18:10.000
and real life utilization, that can go in your process,
01:18:10.000 --> 01:18:12.150
but that the development be in parallel
01:18:12.150 --> 01:18:14.240
using external resources.
01:18:14.240 --> 01:18:17.974
Yes, and again, I think I,
01:18:17.974 --> 01:18:21.430
the followup I would make as though it does not,
01:18:21.430 --> 01:18:24.710
the system still requires priority.
01:18:24.710 --> 01:18:28.610
So I might be able to go five deep instead of 3 deep,
01:18:28.610 --> 01:18:33.480
but I still want to know what the order and priority
01:18:33.480 --> 01:18:36.370
in which I should work on these items,
01:18:36.370 --> 01:18:39.520
because even as I add more resources,
01:18:39.520 --> 01:18:42.610
we're going to find other bottlenecks.
01:18:42.610 --> 01:18:46.990
And so I want wherever that bottleneck is to focus
01:18:46.990 --> 01:18:50.750
on the most high priority item it can.
01:18:50.750 --> 01:18:53.500
So absolutely we want our,
01:18:53.500 --> 01:18:55.920
we want to get that bandwidth larger,
01:18:55.920 --> 01:18:58.280
which I believe is the point you're making,
01:18:58.280 --> 01:19:00.540
but I just want to make sure it's clear
01:19:00.540 --> 01:19:03.624
that we are also dependent on prioritization.
01:19:03.624 --> 01:19:04.942
Yeah, absolutely.
01:19:04.942 --> 01:19:07.554
Yeah, and I believe you have Mr. Chairman, too,
01:19:07.554 --> 01:19:08.770
to a great degree.
01:19:08.770 --> 01:19:12.870
I mean, that phase one phase two was absolutely definitive.
01:19:12.870 --> 01:19:17.870
I mean, and, but just as you're polling up here,
01:19:17.950 --> 01:19:19.817
and you can tell by the conversation,
01:19:19.817 --> 01:19:23.660
I joined Commissioner Cobos and ECRS is important,
01:19:23.660 --> 01:19:26.440
that the resource mix that we face in the next two years,
01:19:26.440 --> 01:19:28.750
I'm a big believer in, we need to develop the tools
01:19:28.750 --> 01:19:30.640
so that you can face that from a resource
01:19:30.640 --> 01:19:33.673
at it, in near-term resource adequacy paradigm.
01:19:34.600 --> 01:19:37.007
On-site fuel storage is statutorily specified,
01:19:37.007 --> 01:19:39.930
and the Legislature wants to see it and we want to see it.
01:19:39.930 --> 01:19:43.110
And there are key things that we have on the ground now,
01:19:43.110 --> 01:19:45.760
and key systems where you don't have to reinvent the wheel,
01:19:45.760 --> 01:19:50.760
and I would urge you not to on that for a timeliness basis.
01:19:50.830 --> 01:19:53.180
So I think you have consistent messages
01:19:53.180 --> 01:19:54.660
coming out of this Commission.
01:19:54.660 --> 01:19:57.760
And I just would like you to bake that in,
01:19:57.760 --> 01:19:59.400
and as you do your budget, and again,
01:19:59.400 --> 01:20:01.760
that's going to be that next big hurdle for the Board
01:20:01.760 --> 01:20:05.250
to overcome, a true track view of this
01:20:05.250 --> 01:20:07.930
is what it costs me when I have this in-house.
01:20:07.930 --> 01:20:09.840
And I managed to find all these unicorns
01:20:09.840 --> 01:20:12.470
of people that can do all of this out there.
01:20:12.470 --> 01:20:15.130
And this is what it also costs me when I have a third party
01:20:15.130 --> 01:20:17.190
to leverage this and do all of it,
01:20:17.190 --> 01:20:20.000
most of it concurrently, as per the blueprint.
01:20:20.000 --> 01:20:21.840
If you could do that, I think it'd be invaluable.
01:20:21.840 --> 01:20:23.730
Yeah, and a lot of that's the Board's job.
01:20:23.730 --> 01:20:24.563
Yes, Sir.
01:20:24.563 --> 01:20:27.140
Right, like we set the policy or the direction
01:20:27.140 --> 01:20:31.610
of the Legislature, ERCOT, what by their Board implements.
01:20:31.610 --> 01:20:32.730
And I'm just pontificating
01:20:32.730 --> 01:20:34.680
so that the Board can discuss all our chair.
01:20:34.680 --> 01:20:35.513
Absolutely.
01:20:35.513 --> 01:20:38.332
Well, let's, you're giving them a big hint
01:20:38.332 --> 01:20:42.293
to the Board, which is warranted.
01:20:44.233 --> 01:20:45.066
Yeah?
01:20:45.066 --> 01:20:45.899
I'm sorry, go on.
01:20:45.899 --> 01:20:47.760
I have one other thing that just,
01:20:47.760 --> 01:20:52.280
it seemed like a lot of this to me,
01:20:52.280 --> 01:20:53.807
I don't know if this was the case,
01:20:53.807 --> 01:20:56.480
and it's probably a small portion of the time
01:20:56.480 --> 01:20:59.370
in the larger scope of 18 to 24 months,
01:20:59.370 --> 01:21:02.890
but it seems like the way the memo
01:21:02.890 --> 01:21:07.430
is worded that front-ended,
01:21:07.430 --> 01:21:09.390
a lot of these projects are going to take time doing
01:21:09.390 --> 01:21:13.430
the NPRRs, which of course we, to me,
01:21:13.430 --> 01:21:15.920
it makes no sense that we order it.
01:21:15.920 --> 01:21:19.303
You all have to do the, go through your timely
01:21:19.303 --> 01:21:21.980
NPRR process, it has to get approved by the Board,
01:21:21.980 --> 01:21:24.970
and then it has to come back for us approval again.
01:21:24.970 --> 01:21:27.480
And it seems like if that is a bottleneck
01:21:27.480 --> 01:21:31.410
in terms of timing, weeks, months,
01:21:31.410 --> 01:21:34.680
we should try to solve and figure out a way to resolve that.
01:21:34.680 --> 01:21:37.510
Funny enough, that's a top of the list for the Board
01:21:37.510 --> 01:21:39.400
to address the process of all that.
01:21:39.400 --> 01:21:40.233
Good, thank you.
01:21:40.233 --> 01:21:43.753
And that is a problem and it will be remedied.
01:21:44.624 --> 01:21:47.967
And it, and I will need to on these priority items,
01:21:47.967 --> 01:21:52.967
try and minimize the NPRR timeline so that I can
01:21:54.310 --> 01:21:59.310
make a year from today or something like that.
01:21:59.520 --> 01:22:04.520
So we will absolutely find places where we can expedite that
01:22:05.600 --> 01:22:10.350
and work with your staff and the stakeholders
01:22:10.350 --> 01:22:12.320
to get that through as quickly as possible.
01:22:12.320 --> 01:22:13.360
Thank you.
01:22:13.360 --> 01:22:15.190
Yeah, and thank you, Kanon.
01:22:15.190 --> 01:22:18.163
I think that all of your points are very helpful to know.
01:22:19.640 --> 01:22:22.840
What I'm hearing here is extremely important
01:22:22.840 --> 01:22:24.580
with respect from the budgetary standpoint,
01:22:24.580 --> 01:22:28.210
ensuring you have the resources, the contractors.
01:22:28.210 --> 01:22:31.560
I know hiring internal resources is a challenge.
01:22:31.560 --> 01:22:34.040
ERCOT going out to find the appropriate contractors
01:22:34.040 --> 01:22:36.110
to get all these items implemented
01:22:36.110 --> 01:22:38.323
as soon as possible is critically important.
01:22:39.490 --> 01:22:40.610
While we are doing that,
01:22:40.610 --> 01:22:43.000
I think it continues to be critically important
01:22:44.190 --> 01:22:45.830
that you also get feedback from us,
01:22:45.830 --> 01:22:47.840
so you can at least meet these timelines.
01:22:47.840 --> 01:22:50.280
So what I really need to understand from you
01:22:50.280 --> 01:22:52.880
is how long we have to give you feedback,
01:22:52.880 --> 01:22:55.110
because I don't want to be giving you feedback
01:22:55.110 --> 01:22:56.896
in four months, and then you turn around and say,
01:22:56.896 --> 01:22:57.977
"Well, I'm sorry,
01:22:57.977 --> 01:22:59.617
"we're not going to have a firm fuel product
01:22:59.617 --> 01:23:01.490
"in place by the winter."
01:23:01.490 --> 01:23:03.630
We need to hear from you realistically
01:23:04.670 --> 01:23:08.053
and very matter of fact, how quickly you need this feedback.
01:23:08.960 --> 01:23:10.420
So based based on today,
01:23:10.420 --> 01:23:13.340
what I'm going to do is draft an NPRR
01:23:13.340 --> 01:23:15.780
and hopefully in the next week,
01:23:15.780 --> 01:23:20.780
and file that with urgent status.
01:23:21.150 --> 01:23:26.150
It is going to have the quantity that we would procure blank
01:23:27.210 --> 01:23:30.683
and wait for your feedback on what that is.
01:23:32.520 --> 01:23:35.860
I'm going to work off the assumption based on what I'm
01:23:35.860 --> 01:23:39.530
hearing today, that it's onsite fuel for the first round.
01:23:39.530 --> 01:23:44.530
And we can get more sophisticated as you see fit.
01:23:44.720 --> 01:23:47.320
We'll leave some blank spaces there, too.
01:23:47.320 --> 01:23:52.320
And of course, just because I file,
01:23:52.620 --> 01:23:55.440
it doesn't mean things can't change,
01:23:55.440 --> 01:23:59.730
but I would like to get that up and running.
01:23:59.730 --> 01:24:04.242
One thing I would say is I think an important emphasis was
01:24:04.242 --> 01:24:09.242
put on days, that 4, 400 megawatt number is a 48-hour number.
01:24:10.950 --> 01:24:15.290
If the Commission wanted to see something longer than that,
01:24:15.290 --> 01:24:16.653
we would want to know.
01:24:17.560 --> 01:24:20.680
So that would be another data point
01:24:20.680 --> 01:24:24.130
just for you to think about and send the Board,
01:24:24.130 --> 01:24:25.176
and folks to think about.
01:24:25.176 --> 01:24:28.050
Yeah, and leave some blank spaces there too.
01:24:28.050 --> 01:24:31.690
And I think the broad answer is as soon as humanly possible,
01:24:31.690 --> 01:24:33.410
you need these answers from us.
01:24:33.410 --> 01:24:34.243
Yes.
01:24:35.180 --> 01:24:37.640
And also to survey the generation resources
01:24:37.640 --> 01:24:39.183
to get that information that I requested,
01:24:39.183 --> 01:24:41.350
because I think that'll help us size,
01:24:41.350 --> 01:24:44.257
ultimately, when we come back with a megawatt amount.
01:24:44.257 --> 01:24:45.700
That will be good information to have.
01:24:45.700 --> 01:24:48.510
We will start that today.
01:24:48.510 --> 01:24:49.410
Excellent, thank you, Sir.
01:24:49.410 --> 01:24:51.950
Can I ask just one more question that I have
01:24:51.950 --> 01:24:55.600
generally speaking, and that is real-time co-optimization?
01:24:55.600 --> 01:24:56.433
Yes, sir.
01:24:56.433 --> 01:24:58.140
Does that get kicked to the back of the line
01:24:58.140 --> 01:25:00.900
or is that in parallel, or is that,
01:25:00.900 --> 01:25:03.680
it seems like we can solve a lot of our market issues
01:25:03.680 --> 01:25:05.760
with that, but just to have a question
01:25:05.760 --> 01:25:07.050
on that, your thoughts.
01:25:07.050 --> 01:25:09.400
That's another item that's top of, pro-burner
01:25:09.400 --> 01:25:11.130
for the new Board.
01:25:11.130 --> 01:25:11.963
And I'll leave it at that.
01:25:11.963 --> 01:25:12.920
That's a huge project.
01:25:12.920 --> 01:25:14.280
Yes, I mean, I would just say
01:25:14.280 --> 01:25:19.090
real-time co-optimization is on hold,
01:25:19.090 --> 01:25:22.320
both from a budget perspective,
01:25:22.320 --> 01:25:25.280
but also there will be some redesign needed
01:25:25.280 --> 01:25:30.250
because quite appropriately y'all have made some policy cuts
01:25:30.250 --> 01:25:32.710
on ORDC and things like that,
01:25:32.710 --> 01:25:34.910
that now we need to realign with.
01:25:34.910 --> 01:25:39.000
So I would not want to give you the false impression
01:25:39.000 --> 01:25:41.290
that I could deliver that in two years.
01:25:41.290 --> 01:25:43.240
Well, and all these new ancillary services
01:25:43.240 --> 01:25:45.270
have to be kill-optimized.
01:25:45.270 --> 01:25:46.103
I mean, do they not?
01:25:46.103 --> 01:25:47.570
I mean, so that's more.
01:25:47.570 --> 01:25:50.290
So yeah. ECRS was going to be in there,
01:25:50.290 --> 01:25:52.650
but there's these things we would need
01:25:52.650 --> 01:25:54.943
to accommodate those as well.
01:25:55.812 --> 01:25:56.645
Thank you.
01:25:56.645 --> 01:25:58.060
All right, and thank you, Kanon.
01:25:58.060 --> 01:25:59.150
Absolutely.
01:25:59.150 --> 01:26:01.460
Thank you all for the input and Commissioner Cobos,
01:26:01.460 --> 01:26:04.330
thank you for sparing us forward on this.
01:26:04.330 --> 01:26:08.120
This is going into the new year,
01:26:08.120 --> 01:26:11.550
it's easy to loose focus on things
01:26:11.550 --> 01:26:13.277
from last year and go to other items,
01:26:13.277 --> 01:26:15.460
and thank you for inspiring us forward on this.
01:26:15.460 --> 01:26:17.010
Absolutely.
01:26:17.010 --> 01:26:19.130
That concludes business on item 30,
01:26:19.130 --> 01:26:21.500
brings us to item 31.
01:26:21.500 --> 01:26:23.240
I believe Commissioner Glotfelty has an update for us.
01:26:23.240 --> 01:26:24.510
Just very briefly.
01:26:24.510 --> 01:26:27.430
I appreciate the recognition, Mr. Chairman.
01:26:27.430 --> 01:26:31.220
Dynamic line rating is kind of a interesting issue to me.
01:26:31.220 --> 01:26:32.053
I like it a lot.
01:26:32.053 --> 01:26:34.470
I think it allows us to,
01:26:34.470 --> 01:26:38.400
in certain times, in certain lines increase the capacity
01:26:38.400 --> 01:26:41.780
of lines in a safe and reliable way across our system.
01:26:41.780 --> 01:26:44.540
We need to figure out a lot more on this
01:26:44.540 --> 01:26:46.353
as it relates to ERCOT.
01:26:46.353 --> 01:26:49.780
We've received about 20 comments in docket 52771
01:26:49.780 --> 01:26:50.930
by the end of the year,
01:26:52.258 --> 01:26:54.450
I appreciate everybody who commented.
01:26:54.450 --> 01:26:56.810
This is a important issue to me.
01:26:56.810 --> 01:26:57.660
It's all helpful.
01:26:57.660 --> 01:26:59.540
There are a range of options that we're going to have
01:26:59.540 --> 01:27:01.960
to discuss here in the future.
01:27:01.960 --> 01:27:05.070
Around the same time at the end of last year,
01:27:05.070 --> 01:27:08.370
FERC finalized an order, which did some very similar things.
01:27:08.370 --> 01:27:12.070
They required not the use of dynamic line rating,
01:27:12.070 --> 01:27:13.660
but for the RTOs and ISO's
01:27:13.660 --> 01:27:16.635
to allow that data to be utilized,
01:27:16.635 --> 01:27:20.250
ensuring that the RTOs can accepted that data.
01:27:20.250 --> 01:27:22.630
I believe that ERCOT is ahead of that
01:27:22.630 --> 01:27:24.810
and can accept the data now already.
01:27:24.810 --> 01:27:26.600
The question becomes on which lines
01:27:26.600 --> 01:27:31.500
and how do we do we utilize this technology
01:27:31.500 --> 01:27:32.530
and the cost benefit of such?
01:27:32.530 --> 01:27:35.200
So I look forward to working with you all on this,
01:27:35.200 --> 01:27:38.597
and we'll be bringing it back to the Commission
01:27:38.597 --> 01:27:40.633
when it's right.
01:27:40.633 --> 01:27:41.887
Excellent.
01:27:41.887 --> 01:27:45.970
That's a exciting opportunity in a new field
01:27:47.820 --> 01:27:49.900
to enhance reliability.
01:27:49.900 --> 01:27:50.733
Thank you.
01:27:52.160 --> 01:27:54.200
That's everything on item 31.
01:27:54.200 --> 01:27:58.000
We don't have anything on items 32 through 39.
01:27:58.000 --> 01:27:59.920
I got it right this time, I think,
01:27:59.920 --> 01:28:01.640
which brings us to item 40,
01:28:01.640 --> 01:28:04.780
an update from our executive director.
01:28:04.780 --> 01:28:06.820
Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Commissioners.
01:28:06.820 --> 01:28:08.310
And keeping with the theme,
01:28:08.310 --> 01:28:10.530
I'll try to be brief this morning.
01:28:10.530 --> 01:28:13.850
I did however, fail to file a memo about my comments,
01:28:13.850 --> 01:28:14.683
so I do apologize.
01:28:14.683 --> 01:28:15.516
I'm always trying to be
01:28:15.516 --> 01:28:16.820
a high-performing executive director,
01:28:16.820 --> 01:28:17.653
so I apologize for not...
01:28:17.653 --> 01:28:19.500
Disappointing as usual, Thomas.
01:28:19.500 --> 01:28:21.320
I assume we'll have some discussions
01:28:21.320 --> 01:28:24.133
in closed session about my performance, Sir, so noted.
01:28:25.380 --> 01:28:27.760
Just a couple of things this morning, mostly reminders.
01:28:27.760 --> 01:28:32.760
One is compliance filings in docket 52667 are due tomorrow.
01:28:33.520 --> 01:28:35.810
You all will remember that this relates
01:28:35.810 --> 01:28:39.070
to a power line safety initiative, Lines Over Lakes,
01:28:39.070 --> 01:28:41.983
coming out of the 2019 legislative session.
01:28:43.157 --> 01:28:47.390
That bill was a result of a really unfortunate tragedy
01:28:47.390 --> 01:28:49.700
that costs three boys their lives
01:28:49.700 --> 01:28:53.480
when their boat mast hit a power line.
01:28:53.480 --> 01:28:55.530
I have been in contact with one of the families,
01:28:55.530 --> 01:28:57.780
they plan to be here at our next open meeting
01:28:57.780 --> 01:28:59.894
to provide some comments about
01:28:59.894 --> 01:29:02.800
our compliance and enforcement efforts
01:29:02.800 --> 01:29:04.720
in relation to that initiative.
01:29:04.720 --> 01:29:06.080
So I just wanted to give you an update on that
01:29:06.080 --> 01:29:09.900
and remind companies that those filings are due tomorrow.
01:29:09.900 --> 01:29:11.890
So no one misses a deadline.
01:29:11.890 --> 01:29:14.450
Secondly, our Electric Supply Chain Security
01:29:14.450 --> 01:29:15.972
and Mapping Committee Meeting is tomorrow.
01:29:15.972 --> 01:29:19.160
It will be held in here and broadcast on Texas Admin
01:29:19.160 --> 01:29:20.070
for those who are interested
01:29:20.070 --> 01:29:22.180
in what's going on with that committee.
01:29:22.180 --> 01:29:24.923
And finally much to my,
01:29:25.850 --> 01:29:27.340
makes me very happy to say that we have
01:29:27.340 --> 01:29:30.270
finally filled our chief administrative officer job here.
01:29:30.270 --> 01:29:32.290
We have hired Haley Hall.
01:29:32.290 --> 01:29:34.905
She is currently at the AG's Office and leads
01:29:34.905 --> 01:29:37.170
the Division of Administration
01:29:37.170 --> 01:29:38.370
for their Child Support Division.
01:29:38.370 --> 01:29:40.600
And so we're really happy to get her on,
01:29:40.600 --> 01:29:42.310
bring her breadth and depth of knowledge
01:29:42.310 --> 01:29:46.173
on agency operations here and leverage all of her talents.
01:29:47.100 --> 01:29:49.300
Excellent, glad to have her on Board.
01:29:49.300 --> 01:29:50.350
Yes, Sir.
01:29:50.350 --> 01:29:52.600
Any other questions or comments for Thomas?
01:29:53.580 --> 01:29:54.413
Thank you, Sir.
01:29:54.413 --> 01:29:55.585
Yes, Sir.
01:29:55.585 --> 01:30:00.200
That concludes business on item 40.
01:30:00.200 --> 01:30:03.253
I don't think have anything for item 41 or 42.
01:30:04.240 --> 01:30:05.980
So there being no further business
01:30:05.980 --> 01:30:06.960
to come before the Commission,
01:30:06.960 --> 01:30:09.060
this meeting of the Public Utility Commission of Texas
01:30:09.060 --> 01:30:10.143
is hereby adjourned.