WEBVTT 00:00:04.839 --> 00:00:07.080 Good morning. This meeting of the Public utility commission 00:00:07.080 --> 00:00:08.900 of texas will come to order to consider matters that 00:00:08.900 --> 00:00:10.640 have been duly posted with the secretary of State of 00:00:10.640 --> 00:00:14.119 texas for february 25th 2022 for the record. My name 00:00:14.119 --> 00:00:17.129 is Peter Lake and with me today. Or will Mcadams, laura 00:00:17.129 --> 00:00:20.230 Cobos and jimmy gloss flt Mr johnny. Could you please 00:00:20.239 --> 00:00:24.359 walk us through the consent agenda for today? Good 00:00:24.359 --> 00:00:26.899 morning. Commissioners by individual belt following 00:00:26.899 --> 00:00:31.800 items were placed on your consent agenda 23456 12 13 00:00:31.809 --> 00:00:37.520 14 15 16 22 31 32 33. And let me note that 00:00:37.530 --> 00:00:41.149 35 was on there. But I've taken it down because I wish 00:00:41.159 --> 00:00:44.450 we have a problem we have to deal with and deal with 00:00:44.450 --> 00:00:46.490 it. We shall. Is there a motion to approve the items 00:00:46.490 --> 00:00:51.259 just described by Mr 2nd? All in favour say, Aye, Aye 00:00:52.740 --> 00:00:56.039 none opposed motion passes. We will now move to the 00:00:56.039 --> 00:00:59.079 public comment portion of our agenda. I'd like to remind 00:00:59.079 --> 00:01:01.670 parties and stakeholders that they should not approach 00:01:01.670 --> 00:01:04.219 the table unless the argument has been granted or they 00:01:04.219 --> 00:01:06.900 have been invited by a commissioner this time. We'll 00:01:06.909 --> 00:01:10.799 open for public comment, comments related to a specific 00:01:10.799 --> 00:01:14.109 agenda item will be heard when that item is taken up 00:01:14.109 --> 00:01:16.310 I know we have a lot of folks here to talk about 00:01:16.310 --> 00:01:20.989 a specific agenda item. This is not that time. This 00:01:20.989 --> 00:01:23.439 is general public comments. Speakers will be limited 00:01:23.439 --> 00:01:25.930 to three minutes each. Do we have anyone signed up 00:01:25.939 --> 00:01:28.530 for the, from the public to speak. No, sir. No one 00:01:28.530 --> 00:01:31.650 signed up this morning. Thank you. Public comment is 00:01:31.650 --> 00:01:34.379 now closed. We're gonna move the agenda around a little 00:01:34.379 --> 00:01:36.959 bit today so we can start with our rulemaking projects 00:01:37.000 --> 00:01:41.739 and then move to the remainder of our agenda, Which 00:01:41.739 --> 00:01:47.840 starts us out at item 17. Project 51841. Mr jr Journeay 00:01:47.840 --> 00:01:54.879 (item:17) items 17. Project 51841. It's a Rulemaking of Uh Project 00:01:54.890 --> 00:01:58.230 Commission staff filed on February 21. The Memorandum 00:01:58.230 --> 00:02:01.760 and a proposed order to adopt a new rule related to 00:02:01.760 --> 00:02:05.060 Emergency Operation Plans And filed a correction memo 00:02:05.060 --> 00:02:06.560 to that on February 24. 00:02:08.240 --> 00:02:10.949 Thank you. Uh we all know this is a big part of 00:02:10.949 --> 00:02:12.819 the Senate Bill three that was passed last session 00:02:12.819 --> 00:02:15.330 one of the many key elements of the expansive Senate 00:02:15.330 --> 00:02:18.889 Bill three that brought so many reforms regarding Emergency 00:02:18.889 --> 00:02:23.330 Operation plans. Um I'm happy to hear thoughts, comments 00:02:23.330 --> 00:02:25.159 I mean, this is a big deal to get this done. This 00:02:25.159 --> 00:02:29.789 is a key part of the reforms, thoughts, comments, questions 00:02:29.789 --> 00:02:33.990 for staff. Yeah, thank you. Mr Chairman. Um just to 00:02:33.990 --> 00:02:38.490 complement staff on on the uh comprehensive nature 00:02:38.500 --> 00:02:42.259 Um even on we're establishing the bones of policy here 00:02:42.270 --> 00:02:45.080 that we can grow from in the future to adapt to any 00:02:45.080 --> 00:02:49.599 threats. Um I think this rule is timely given the situation 00:02:49.610 --> 00:02:54.629 the country may face with foreign actors who may have 00:02:54.629 --> 00:02:56.789 an interest in our system and the reliability of our 00:02:56.789 --> 00:02:58.889 system. I think the comprehensive nature of the rule 00:02:58.889 --> 00:03:03.639 has filed envisions that, and uh safeguards are being 00:03:03.639 --> 00:03:06.599 put in place that will help us deal with any threat 00:03:06.599 --> 00:03:08.599 moving forward. So, thank you staff. 00:03:10.639 --> 00:03:13.710 I also want to thank staff for their hard work and 00:03:13.710 --> 00:03:17.020 putting together this comprehensive list of rule, rather 00:03:17.030 --> 00:03:19.750 um having worked on this rule back in the day, in a 00:03:19.750 --> 00:03:23.030 in a prior life, um and it's much more robust now and 00:03:23.030 --> 00:03:24.659 I want to thank the legislature and the governor for 00:03:24.659 --> 00:03:28.060 signing Senate Bill three into law to provide increased 00:03:28.060 --> 00:03:31.099 transparency and ensure that the commission has more 00:03:31.099 --> 00:03:34.770 visibility into emergency operations plans. So, uh 00:03:34.780 --> 00:03:37.060 they can verify that the electric industry is ready 00:03:37.060 --> 00:03:40.509 to respond to an emergency event and provide critical 00:03:40.509 --> 00:03:42.930 information to Texans across the state during those 00:03:42.930 --> 00:03:43.360 events. 00:03:45.240 --> 00:03:46.129 I'm supportive. 00:03:47.939 --> 00:03:55.060 Ah, well, put, thank you all of you. I know we um 00:03:55.439 --> 00:03:57.240 kudos and staff and other stakeholders put a lot of 00:03:57.240 --> 00:04:02.689 work into this also and I know there For some of our 00:04:02.689 --> 00:04:05.520 smaller entities, there's some concern about the rapidly 00:04:05.520 --> 00:04:08.460 approaching April 15 deadline 00:04:11.039 --> 00:04:14.840 Barksdale's is, can staff accommodate some sort of 00:04:14.840 --> 00:04:19.569 assistance or training or workshop. Good morning Commissioners 00:04:19.569 --> 00:04:22.500 Barksdale english on behalf of commission staff, Yes 00:04:22.509 --> 00:04:26.220 we can definitely set something up so that we can hold 00:04:26.220 --> 00:04:29.759 an informal workshop with entities that are interested 00:04:29.759 --> 00:04:32.720 about how we interpret the rule and what we mean by 00:04:32.720 --> 00:04:35.350 the word, so that hopefully you all are about to adopt 00:04:35.839 --> 00:04:39.819 And hopefully help them onto their, their compliance 00:04:39.819 --> 00:04:43.439 path to get filings by April 15. Okay. Does that, does 00:04:43.439 --> 00:04:44.060 that make sense? 00:04:45.699 --> 00:04:48.009 We all have staff that works out for any entities. 00:04:48.009 --> 00:04:51.089 They're interested in some guidance and support. Absolutely 00:04:51.269 --> 00:04:55.069 absolutely makes sense. Alright. If, how quickly do 00:04:55.069 --> 00:04:57.160 you think you can file notice of a workshop like that 00:04:59.939 --> 00:05:02.790 It could be as early as this afternoon. Well, well 00:05:03.839 --> 00:05:06.730 I know y'all are on top of it. So we'll look forward 00:05:06.730 --> 00:05:10.240 to some sort of filing within, say the next week. Perfect 00:05:10.250 --> 00:05:14.339 Thank you. That being said, is there a motion to adopt 00:05:14.339 --> 00:05:17.060 a proposal for adoption as amended by staff? Middle 00:05:18.079 --> 00:05:23.490 2nd all they would say I I none opposed motion passes 00:05:23.490 --> 00:05:27.060 Thank you very much. Thank you. The next item please 00:05:27.839 --> 00:05:33.040 (item:20) Um, item 20 is project 52313 US review administrative 00:05:33.040 --> 00:05:36.180 penalty authority Commission staff filed on february 00:05:36.180 --> 00:05:38.939 20th. The memorandum and proposal for publication to 00:05:38.939 --> 00:05:44.629 amend commission Rules 22 to 46 25.8. This is another 00:05:44.629 --> 00:05:48.079 key. We might be related to reforms in the aftermath 00:05:48.089 --> 00:05:54.430 of last year's event. Happy your thoughts, comments 00:05:54.430 --> 00:05:58.310 questions ST simple and I appreciate that. Thank you 00:05:58.310 --> 00:05:58.730 Mark Stone, 00:06:02.389 --> 00:06:05.259 supportive. Excellent. 00:06:07.240 --> 00:06:11.120 We've already enacted some of these or utilize this 00:06:11.319 --> 00:06:15.500 new authority and I think there's been plenty of conversation 00:06:15.500 --> 00:06:17.699 about that and that will go through the appropriate 00:06:17.699 --> 00:06:22.569 process. I also do want to take the time to thank all 00:06:22.569 --> 00:06:26.370 of the ERCOT participants who were proactive in their 00:06:26.370 --> 00:06:30.750 winterization efforts. Who, who got ahead of the curve 00:06:31.139 --> 00:06:35.319 both generators and T dus to make sure that our fleet 00:06:35.319 --> 00:06:37.810 was ready for this winter, appreciate all the effort 00:06:37.819 --> 00:06:41.290 and not having to use this rule. But as always we will 00:06:41.300 --> 00:06:43.730 vigorously utilize vigorously utilize this when we 00:06:43.730 --> 00:06:44.100 need to. 00:06:45.939 --> 00:06:48.790 Is there a motion to adopt a proposal for adoption 00:06:49.649 --> 00:06:53.160 2nd, all in favor say, Aye, aye, not opposed motion 00:06:53.160 --> 00:06:59.060 passes. Next item please sir. (item:25) Item 25 is project 53191 00:06:59.060 --> 00:07:03.529 it's three. Organization of Rule 25.505. Commission 00:07:03.529 --> 00:07:06.500 staff filed a memorandum and proposal for publication 00:07:06.500 --> 00:07:11.470 to repeal commission Rule 25.505 and adopt new 25 505506 00:07:11.470 --> 00:07:14.259 and 509. Thank you sir. 00:07:16.240 --> 00:07:19.290 Another this is something we discussed a lot last summer 00:07:19.290 --> 00:07:22.259 and fall thoughts, comments, questions I I think this 00:07:22.259 --> 00:07:25.629 is a great first step to help the commission in organizing 00:07:25.629 --> 00:07:30.240 as we said at the adoption of of the blueprint. Um 00:07:30.250 --> 00:07:32.829 it was simply the end of the beginning. Well this starts 00:07:32.829 --> 00:07:36.490 the next chapter and helps provide the structure for 00:07:36.490 --> 00:07:40.319 us to open hold an open and transparent process for 00:07:40.319 --> 00:07:43.420 our stakeholders to have meaningful input on how the 00:07:43.420 --> 00:07:46.790 system that the structure of the system is formed moving 00:07:46.790 --> 00:07:50.160 forward. So I appreciate staff's work on this. You 00:07:50.160 --> 00:07:54.500 know, we did the lowered age cap last fall adjusted 00:07:54.500 --> 00:07:57.600 the RDc to get back to even the way we turned it 00:07:58.439 --> 00:08:01.980 This is the first step in there? The first chapter 00:08:01.980 --> 00:08:05.220 of the next phase of getting going above and beyond 00:08:05.220 --> 00:08:08.290 to ensure we have sufficient revenues in our ERCOT 00:08:08.290 --> 00:08:13.810 for dispatch a whole generation. I would say that um 00:08:13.819 --> 00:08:16.920 I'm appreciative that the report from ERCOT on an annual 00:08:16.920 --> 00:08:20.310 basis includes costs, the effectiveness of the uh of 00:08:20.310 --> 00:08:23.079 the modifications. Um so we understand what this costs 00:08:23.079 --> 00:08:26.990 the ERCOT and and we can see the reciprocal changes 00:08:27.000 --> 00:08:30.199 if we need to make more, but we see how the O 00:08:30.199 --> 00:08:32.100 R. D. C. Is actually working. That was an important 00:08:32.100 --> 00:08:35.090 addition. Yeah. Glad that's in there. We know what 00:08:35.090 --> 00:08:37.370 we're getting for our money. It's not just a money 00:08:37.370 --> 00:08:40.940 dump. It comes with accountability, their money. Yeah 00:08:42.639 --> 00:08:45.720 Alright. Motion to adopt the proposals. 00:08:47.440 --> 00:08:50.309 Sorry, just on this one, staff would like to request 00:08:50.309 --> 00:08:52.679 of shareholders or stakeholders rather, you know, this 00:08:52.679 --> 00:08:55.169 is a reorganization docket and a lot of topics that 00:08:55.169 --> 00:08:57.740 you're interested in are relevant to this, but this 00:08:57.870 --> 00:09:01.519 we're trying to get this one done quickly. So if we 00:09:01.519 --> 00:09:04.860 could save substantive policy ideas that are novel 00:09:04.860 --> 00:09:07.929 for other dockets, that would be a huge personal favor 00:09:07.929 --> 00:09:10.080 to me in the families of the people who are working 00:09:10.080 --> 00:09:13.230 on it. So, um Thank you. So mr chairman, that's that's 00:09:13.230 --> 00:09:17.039 a great point. So again, this is uh this is step one 00:09:17.139 --> 00:09:20.750 as envisioned by staff and the commission itself and 00:09:20.750 --> 00:09:24.610 thus step two will be those, those venues for substantive 00:09:24.620 --> 00:09:27.850 suggestions. So keep your powder dry. Is that the message 00:09:28.940 --> 00:09:31.399 Yes, legally they can file whatever they like. But 00:09:31.399 --> 00:09:33.000 it would be a personal favor to me if they were not 00:09:33.000 --> 00:09:36.889 understood. Yeah, let's Meltzer. His family and his 00:09:36.889 --> 00:09:38.779 staff get some sleep. 00:09:40.740 --> 00:09:44.779 Thank you. No sir. Alright. Is there a motion to adopt 00:09:44.779 --> 00:09:48.929 the proposal for publications all in favor? Say, aye 00:09:49.269 --> 00:09:50.950 not opposed motion passes. 00:09:53.539 --> 00:09:59.059 Next item please. Next items. (item:1) Item one docket 504004 00:09:59.740 --> 00:10:02.179 The petition of sterling D's and O'Donnell and others 00:10:02.190 --> 00:10:07.620 for an extra indicted release of property Before the 00:10:07.620 --> 00:10:09.789 commission is a motion for rehearing filed on February 00:10:09.799 --> 00:10:12.750 eight for the Commission's order that it filed on January 00:10:12.750 --> 00:10:19.450 14 releasing this property. I think we thoughts, comments 00:10:21.039 --> 00:10:25.090 It's pretty narrow focus. Yeah, I think we're granting 00:10:25.090 --> 00:10:28.340 rehearing only for the purposes of correcting um finding 00:10:28.340 --> 00:10:30.850 in fact 44 and 45 to make the order consistent with 00:10:30.850 --> 00:10:34.139 the water code and commission rules. Well, those findings 00:10:34.139 --> 00:10:36.620 certainly were not consistent with what the commission 00:10:36.659 --> 00:10:40.480 ruled last time and we're sorry for for not catching 00:10:40.480 --> 00:10:45.220 all that. So yeah, no, I applaud the cleanup and as 00:10:45.230 --> 00:10:48.879 much uniformity and consistency this commission can 00:10:48.879 --> 00:10:52.210 have as we work together. I think that makes both our 00:10:52.210 --> 00:10:57.080 life and staffs easier. So my support. I think it makes 00:10:57.090 --> 00:11:00.259 my fantastic memo of the last meeting even better, 00:11:01.669 --> 00:11:04.529 totally supportive One of the great scribes of our 00:11:04.529 --> 00:11:04.779 time 00:11:06.340 --> 00:11:09.659 just to clarify to on that. Those two findings are 00:11:09.659 --> 00:11:11.470 where we're trying to fix the phrase that strike to 00:11:11.470 --> 00:11:13.980 land and property and use the right phrase. That's 00:11:13.980 --> 00:11:14.250 correct 00:11:16.539 --> 00:11:20.220 Findings about 44 45 just tract of land. Is there a 00:11:20.220 --> 00:11:23.149 motion to grant rehearing only for the purpose of modifying 00:11:23.159 --> 00:11:26.240 modifying findings of fact 44 45 to be consistent with 00:11:26.240 --> 00:11:29.730 the commission's use of the term tract of land all 00:11:29.730 --> 00:11:34.840 in favor say aye, aye, opposed motion passes. That 00:11:34.850 --> 00:11:38.850 brings us to number seven. I don't have anything on that 00:11:41.080 --> 00:11:47.039 When will move to item number eight dock at 50065. 00:11:47.120 --> 00:11:51.529 Lay that out for us. (item:8) Mr item mates docket 50065 is 00:11:51.529 --> 00:11:55.049 the complaint of doug and linda crossing and bow and 00:11:55.049 --> 00:11:58.889 Trish LeBeau and Bruce and and all hard against personalities 00:11:59.340 --> 00:12:03.840 electric co op Uh proposal for decision was filed October 00:12:03.850 --> 00:12:07.179 28, 2020. The commission heard oral argument at the 00:12:07.179 --> 00:12:11.100 december 17th 2020 meeting before the commission actually 00:12:11.100 --> 00:12:14.940 took up this proposal. The parties asked the commission 00:12:14.950 --> 00:12:18.139 to delay action to give them time to have settlement 00:12:18.139 --> 00:12:21.509 discussions. Uh Recently we've been asked to bring 00:12:21.509 --> 00:12:25.379 it in front of you. I have a memorandum with proposed 00:12:25.379 --> 00:12:28.399 changes to the PFD and the commission has granted our 00:12:28.399 --> 00:12:29.759 argument on this item. 00:12:31.340 --> 00:12:34.740 Thank you sir. Works with our usual processes in the 00:12:34.740 --> 00:12:38.059 oral argument 1st. I know we have Representative Weiner 00:12:38.059 --> 00:12:42.330 on the phone. So let's start with representatives of 00:12:42.730 --> 00:12:44.509 the phone is supposed to be set up, they're supposed 00:12:44.509 --> 00:12:46.679 to be on there and it's supposed to be ready to go 00:12:46.850 --> 00:12:47.850 Representative, can you hear us? 00:12:49.440 --> 00:12:52.960 I can hear y'all. Can you hear me? Yes ma'am. The floor 00:12:52.960 --> 00:12:57.100 is yours. Wonderful. Thank you so much. Thank you Chairman 00:12:57.100 --> 00:12:59.950 Lake and the rest of the commissioners uh for allowing 00:12:59.950 --> 00:13:04.149 me to address this issue with y'all. Um I in late 2019 00:13:04.149 --> 00:13:06.730 this issue was brought to my attention and I previously 00:13:06.740 --> 00:13:11.429 submitted a letter to the puc and addressed your predecessors 00:13:11.440 --> 00:13:15.159 around this issue. Um Today I would like to again express 00:13:15.169 --> 00:13:18.240 my concerns regarding personal it's electric co ops 00:13:18.240 --> 00:13:21.309 plans to move an electric transmission line and its 00:13:21.320 --> 00:13:24.980 impact on a nearby community in driftwood. My understanding 00:13:24.980 --> 00:13:27.730 is that this line is not being relocated for maintenance 00:13:27.730 --> 00:13:31.090 or upgrading purposes, but rather the move is entirely 00:13:31.090 --> 00:13:34.889 voluntary. Um And at the request and with the financing 00:13:34.899 --> 00:13:38.490 of the landowner. Now nearby communities, specifically 00:13:38.490 --> 00:13:41.169 homeowners in the Rimrock neighborhood who will be 00:13:41.169 --> 00:13:44.490 less than 300 ft from the electric lines have not had 00:13:44.500 --> 00:13:47.830 any say in this process. I find that troubling because 00:13:47.830 --> 00:13:51.399 it sidesteps the normal routing process and undermines 00:13:51.409 --> 00:13:54.899 the entire integrity of the process while the location 00:13:54.899 --> 00:13:57.950 is occurring on private property nearby impacted homeowners 00:13:57.960 --> 00:14:00.789 have not been given the usual opportunity, they would 00:14:00.789 --> 00:14:04.639 have to avoid concerns by not granting these homeowners 00:14:04.649 --> 00:14:07.899 due process. I fear that this will set a dangerous 00:14:07.899 --> 00:14:12.450 precedent for all routing cases. We do not want to 00:14:12.450 --> 00:14:17.539 create a loophole where electric providers can apply 00:14:17.539 --> 00:14:21.500 with one route and then use a technical opportunity 00:14:21.509 --> 00:14:24.850 to correct it to another route and impact more homeowners 00:14:25.639 --> 00:14:28.500 We know that the routing process works because it provides 00:14:28.509 --> 00:14:31.019 all impacted individuals with a voice and a chance 00:14:31.019 --> 00:14:34.070 to express concerns. It creates a table for parties 00:14:34.070 --> 00:14:36.809 to come together and figure out what solutions makes 00:14:36.820 --> 00:14:40.519 most sense for everyone. So I urge you all to not allow 00:14:40.519 --> 00:14:44.860 this process to be sidestepped uh and create a dangerous 00:14:44.860 --> 00:14:49.340 moral hazard for other providers to um sidestepped 00:14:49.340 --> 00:14:52.080 the routing process in the future. That is why I am 00:14:52.080 --> 00:14:54.889 respectfully requesting that you require personality 00:14:54.899 --> 00:14:58.899 electric coop to amend its CCN to ensure that the relocation 00:14:58.899 --> 00:15:01.820 of the electric transmission line is executed such 00:15:01.830 --> 00:15:04.110 that affected parties are granted the due process. 00:15:04.120 --> 00:15:06.750 They deserve thank you so much for your time today 00:15:06.750 --> 00:15:09.559 and for the opportunity to address you all. Thank you 00:15:09.559 --> 00:15:11.870 representative appreciate you taking the time to join 00:15:11.870 --> 00:15:12.059 us. 00:15:14.740 --> 00:15:18.580 We'll move forward to the remainder of our oral arguments 00:15:18.720 --> 00:15:21.950 as it works for you all. We'll start with driftwood 00:15:22.179 --> 00:15:24.960 uh then moved to the complainants and then here from 00:15:25.190 --> 00:15:29.970 Dallas, should I end this sounds like she hung out 00:15:33.440 --> 00:15:33.769 thank you 00:15:35.700 --> 00:15:36.620 which would be a million. 00:15:40.440 --> 00:15:45.720 As usual do, we'll do three minutes per party. Uh and 00:15:45.720 --> 00:15:48.379 of course commissioners, you can ask questions at any 00:15:48.379 --> 00:15:50.450 point throughout the proceedings. 00:15:52.139 --> 00:15:55.690 So first up, let's call up driftwood if they so choose 00:15:55.690 --> 00:15:57.639 to address the commission. 00:16:01.440 --> 00:16:02.460 Apparently they do not. 00:16:04.340 --> 00:16:08.269 All right. Mr johnny, who else do we have? First on 00:16:08.269 --> 00:16:10.360 the list? We have dug crossing 00:16:12.940 --> 00:16:15.769 and behind him is Trish LeBeau. I'm gonna call to you 00:16:15.769 --> 00:16:18.860 at the time so we can see if we can. Mm hmm 00:16:26.039 --> 00:16:26.250 Mhm. 00:16:28.240 --> 00:16:31.049 Good morning Commissioners. My name is Doug crossing 00:16:31.059 --> 00:16:34.779 I live with my wife linda at 2 to 3 Blackstone cove 00:16:34.960 --> 00:16:38.389 in the room, not subdivision out in driftwood near 00:16:38.389 --> 00:16:40.639 dripping springs. First of all, I want to thank you 00:16:40.649 --> 00:16:43.559 for your service to the state of texas. I know it takes 00:16:43.559 --> 00:16:47.039 a ton of time and appreciate your, your efforts. It's 00:16:47.039 --> 00:16:50.549 a critical service. We're here to oppose the rerouting 00:16:50.549 --> 00:16:55.039 of pronounced electric co ops, um high voltage transmission 00:16:55.039 --> 00:16:57.860 line on the property right behind our houses. I would 00:16:57.860 --> 00:17:01.629 also note that we see that transmission line and the 00:17:01.629 --> 00:17:04.759 polls today from our back porch, but it's about 900 00:17:04.759 --> 00:17:07.720 ft away. This proposal ground and would move it about 00:17:07.730 --> 00:17:11.940 200 ft from our house and up the hill. So in the 00:17:11.950 --> 00:17:15.910 perspective is much different. Um I'm a commercial 00:17:15.910 --> 00:17:18.839 real estate lender, I'm a longtime texas real estate 00:17:18.839 --> 00:17:22.859 broker. Um I come at this with a lot of years of 00:17:22.859 --> 00:17:27.329 experience in real estate and really a pro growth bias 00:17:27.339 --> 00:17:32.849 to be honest with you. So, um but I'm I just feel 00:17:32.849 --> 00:17:37.259 like the personnel's Electric co op, which were members 00:17:37.259 --> 00:17:41.730 of, okay, um, hasn't gone through the process of amending 00:17:41.730 --> 00:17:46.480 their CCN. Um, and we we filed this complaint years 00:17:46.480 --> 00:17:49.460 ago because they sent us a letter saying they're about 00:17:49.460 --> 00:17:52.740 to start construction uh, and we, we didn't know what 00:17:52.740 --> 00:17:56.119 else to do, I'm not an attorney, but the matter seems 00:17:56.119 --> 00:18:00.759 pretty simple to me. Um you guys control routing of 00:18:01.539 --> 00:18:06.140 transmission lines in the state of texas. Um, the rerouting 00:18:06.140 --> 00:18:09.359 of this is clearly not improvement or beneficial to 00:18:09.359 --> 00:18:12.680 the electrical grid. Uh, in fact, it's lengthening 00:18:12.680 --> 00:18:15.839 the line, it's adding more poles, it's putting three 00:18:15.839 --> 00:18:19.609 turns in a line that today is just a straight, perfectly 00:18:19.609 --> 00:18:25.220 straight line across the driftwood property. Um, It 00:18:25.230 --> 00:18:28.480 also moves it obviously within 300 ft of multiple homes 00:18:28.490 --> 00:18:32.099 Uh, and I think they shared that little aerial picture 00:18:32.970 --> 00:18:37.039 Okay, thank you. Um, and it's solely to accommodate 00:18:37.039 --> 00:18:40.039 the desires of the, of the discovery folks of luxury 00:18:40.039 --> 00:18:44.369 golf course folks who are good people. Um, but I think 00:18:44.369 --> 00:18:47.490 they were mistakenly misled early in the process that 00:18:47.490 --> 00:18:49.920 this could be moved on their costs without going through 00:18:49.920 --> 00:18:56.359 a CCN process. Um, and um, I'll leave the legal arguments 00:18:56.359 --> 00:19:00.369 to others um before this was filed a couple of weeks 00:19:00.369 --> 00:19:03.970 ago, we were under the impression that Discovery was 00:19:03.970 --> 00:19:08.569 working closely with the analysis to investigate and 00:19:08.579 --> 00:19:11.980 resolve their desire to bury that transmission line 00:19:11.990 --> 00:19:14.799 on their property. That was part of our settlement 00:19:14.799 --> 00:19:18.250 discussions that started early last year and then kind 00:19:18.250 --> 00:19:22.390 of petered out. Okay, as early as this morning, David 00:19:22.390 --> 00:19:25.700 Rhodes text me, David Rhodes is the head of Discovery 00:19:25.700 --> 00:19:29.309 Land. He texts me to say we had our kickoff meeting 00:19:29.309 --> 00:19:33.539 with our underground burial engineer this week and 00:19:33.539 --> 00:19:36.890 he testified last week at the pronounce electric co 00:19:36.890 --> 00:19:43.130 op board that with their approval, he hired an expert 00:19:43.160 --> 00:19:47.019 engineer to evaluate the scope and cost of the underground 00:19:47.019 --> 00:19:50.230 option. So we're just kind of baffled that we're even 00:19:50.230 --> 00:19:53.930 here and taking y'all's time up with something that 00:19:53.940 --> 00:19:57.700 seems like they're still working on. Um So again, I 00:19:57.700 --> 00:20:00.630 thank you. Um I would ask that you direct pronounce 00:20:00.630 --> 00:20:03.029 electric to not move this transmission line without 00:20:03.039 --> 00:20:06.559 first completing a full CCN process where all affected 00:20:06.559 --> 00:20:09.839 parties have a voice and thereafter you guys can decide 00:20:09.839 --> 00:20:11.279 whether it's really necessary. 00:20:13.140 --> 00:20:17.079 It's mr Crofton. If you could, I would like to ask 00:20:17.079 --> 00:20:20.559 you a question and this is a layman, the layman. Um 00:20:21.150 --> 00:20:25.890 So I know you've read the law and not a lawyer, appreciate 00:20:25.890 --> 00:20:28.849 the disclaimer. Um I know you've read the substantive 00:20:28.849 --> 00:20:32.130 rule because I mean, I've been in your shoes um in 00:20:32.130 --> 00:20:34.859 front of a district judge on a pipeline, I mean, issue 00:20:35.240 --> 00:20:38.140 Uh I know it's stressful trying to interpret what your 00:20:38.140 --> 00:20:42.589 rights are. So if if you were to draw a line on 00:20:42.589 --> 00:20:47.420 policy and talk about, okay, what requires a CCN process 00:20:47.430 --> 00:20:49.769 versus what doesn't and I appreciate the fact that 00:20:49.769 --> 00:20:51.529 you're in real estate because you're pro growth and 00:20:51.529 --> 00:20:54.619 you're trying to thread that needle on what, what gets 00:20:54.619 --> 00:20:58.920 things moves along and what protects the basic property 00:20:58.920 --> 00:21:03.910 rights of the folks impacted by any development? Where 00:21:03.910 --> 00:21:07.230 would you draw the line in terms of the triggering 00:21:07.230 --> 00:21:11.809 of a full blown CCN process? Is it any deviation? Is 00:21:11.809 --> 00:21:15.430 it, where's that line for you? Well, you know, it's 00:21:15.440 --> 00:21:18.680 it's the law and again, I'm not a lawyer, but I've 00:21:18.680 --> 00:21:22.700 read this passage many times. Um, it talks about a 00:21:22.700 --> 00:21:27.180 routine activities exception to routing or rerouting 00:21:27.190 --> 00:21:32.960 of lines. And you know, if, if that were the case, 00:21:33.539 --> 00:21:37.180 if it were a routine activity, pronounce electric wouldn't 00:21:37.190 --> 00:21:40.619 listed on their transmission project list that they 00:21:40.630 --> 00:21:43.940 report to their board every month as a major project 00:21:43.950 --> 00:21:48.690 Right? Um, and, and you wouldn't reroute something 00:21:48.700 --> 00:21:51.480 that section that talks about routine activities is 00:21:51.480 --> 00:21:54.039 the same section of the law that talks about prudent 00:21:54.049 --> 00:21:57.470 avoidance of residential homes. It's in the exact same 00:21:57.470 --> 00:22:02.130 section. So it's, it's nonsensical. It defies logic 00:22:02.140 --> 00:22:06.130 to think that Moving a transmission line within 300 00:22:06.130 --> 00:22:12.289 ft of multiple homes is in fact routine. Um, so I don't 00:22:12.289 --> 00:22:14.960 know if that answers your question, commissioner, but 00:22:16.839 --> 00:22:22.769 but it seems like we've crossed over, we're not a routine 00:22:22.769 --> 00:22:25.750 activity and it is a rerouting and to be honest with 00:22:25.750 --> 00:22:29.309 you, if they had gone through a CCN process or amended 00:22:29.309 --> 00:22:33.059 CCN process and you guys decided, Yeah, this is important 00:22:33.069 --> 00:22:35.549 to the state of texas and it needs to be rerouted. 00:22:36.539 --> 00:22:40.819 I'm done okay, but I think they have to follow the 00:22:40.829 --> 00:22:41.460 process. 00:22:44.240 --> 00:22:45.940 Got it. And I appreciate the feedback. Thanks sir. 00:22:45.950 --> 00:22:46.670 Thank you. 00:22:48.539 --> 00:22:52.140 Thank you. The next step is Trish LeBeau and behind 00:22:52.140 --> 00:22:53.450 her would be bold. Leveaux. 00:22:59.839 --> 00:23:04.259 Good morning. Good morning. My name is Trish LeBeau 00:23:05.039 --> 00:23:08.680 I want to thank the Public utility commission for hearing 00:23:08.680 --> 00:23:14.089 us consumers for protecting us for fostering competition 00:23:14.099 --> 00:23:17.970 and for promoting high quality infrastructure as this 00:23:17.970 --> 00:23:21.960 is your mission statement. Also in a publication of 00:23:21.970 --> 00:23:26.640 june 1st 2011 regarding transmission line cases, you 00:23:26.640 --> 00:23:30.660 state that, among other considerations, you pay attention 00:23:30.660 --> 00:23:34.609 to factors such as community values, historical and 00:23:34.609 --> 00:23:40.019 aesthetic values and environmental integrity. Discovery's 00:23:40.019 --> 00:23:44.059 website describes the driftwood, golf and ranch house 00:23:44.390 --> 00:23:49.569 as texas, dreaming that gives members access to magnificent 00:23:49.569 --> 00:23:54.000 natural landscapes and with spectacular views of the 00:23:54.000 --> 00:23:59.690 hill country. What about us? We were there first because 00:23:59.700 --> 00:24:04.779 that's exactly what we were looking for. Why not? Underground 00:24:04.779 --> 00:24:08.130 lines. Great advances have been made in the burying 00:24:08.130 --> 00:24:12.269 of transmission lines. According to a 2012 industry 00:24:12.269 --> 00:24:16.150 study by Edison Electric Institute bearing transmission 00:24:16.150 --> 00:24:20.130 lines significantly decreases all of the documented 00:24:20.140 --> 00:24:24.829 negative impacts of overhead lines. Among many of the 00:24:24.829 --> 00:24:28.250 advantages of underground lines are health safety, 00:24:28.259 --> 00:24:33.269 property value, the environment, tourism, power outages 00:24:33.279 --> 00:24:37.980 reliability, maintenance costs, and transmission, low 00:24:37.980 --> 00:24:43.059 costs. I believe that the increase in capital construction 00:24:43.069 --> 00:24:47.460 costs for underground lines would be outweighed by 00:24:47.460 --> 00:24:51.670 all the social, environmental and economic benefits 00:24:52.339 --> 00:24:57.099 My dad, who was a lawyer always said that my rights 00:24:57.109 --> 00:25:03.000 ended where they impacted others negatively. The relocation 00:25:03.000 --> 00:25:07.170 of transmission lines should not only require a certificate 00:25:07.170 --> 00:25:11.220 of convenience and necessity. It should also be beneficial 00:25:11.230 --> 00:25:15.859 and avoid having a negative effect on established communities 00:25:16.440 --> 00:25:21.369 As a PC member and shareholder. I urged P. E. C. And 00:25:21.369 --> 00:25:25.900 Discovery to choose the win win alternative. This will 00:25:25.900 --> 00:25:29.910 be in compliance with puc policies. It will also show 00:25:29.910 --> 00:25:34.000 that PC and Discovery are not only good neighbors but 00:25:34.000 --> 00:25:37.990 trendsetters in an industry where underground transmission 00:25:37.990 --> 00:25:42.910 lines will be the norm in the very near future. Thank 00:25:42.910 --> 00:25:46.349 you very much for your consideration. Thank you ma'am 00:25:49.640 --> 00:25:50.859 bo LeBeau please 00:25:53.039 --> 00:25:54.960 and following him, linda Crawford. 00:26:00.440 --> 00:26:03.039 My name is bo lib. Oh, I want to thank you for 00:26:03.039 --> 00:26:04.160 letting me speak today, 00:26:05.750 --> 00:26:09.799 my wife and I search for over a year to find a 00:26:09.799 --> 00:26:14.019 place that had an unobstructed view to build our retirement 00:26:14.019 --> 00:26:18.920 home. We found it and built our forever retirement 00:26:18.920 --> 00:26:22.420 home. I would like to show you the view that we have 00:26:22.420 --> 00:26:26.220 from our home and the view that will be forced to see 00:26:26.460 --> 00:26:30.599 if Discovery and P EC moved the transmission lines 00:26:32.240 --> 00:26:34.599 I'm not going to address the legal aspects of this 00:26:34.599 --> 00:26:39.279 situation, but the ethical but the ethical Discovery 00:26:39.279 --> 00:26:42.160 land development has proclaimed in numerous magazine 00:26:42.160 --> 00:26:44.990 articles about their ethics and how they work with 00:26:44.990 --> 00:26:50.279 communities adding equity to the region. I also would 00:26:50.279 --> 00:26:53.609 like to read a quote from one of their own brochures 00:26:55.440 --> 00:26:58.200 Discovery land company, the world's leading developer 00:26:58.200 --> 00:27:03.049 of luxury, private residential communities. Quote 00:27:07.039 --> 00:27:10.359 for nearly 25 years. Discovery dedication dedicated 00:27:10.740 --> 00:27:14.220 to low intensity, environmentally conscious developments 00:27:14.230 --> 00:27:17.359 have enhanced and improved surrounding communities 00:27:17.369 --> 00:27:20.549 through land preservation and increased equity. 00:27:22.940 --> 00:27:27.130 I don't think so. Increased equity as soon as they 00:27:27.130 --> 00:27:31.450 move the lines towards my property and my property 00:27:31.839 --> 00:27:34.829 as well as my neighbors. The value will certainly go 00:27:34.829 --> 00:27:39.539 down. I recently talked with David Rhodes, president 00:27:39.539 --> 00:27:43.359 of Discovery Land Development and he actually agrees 00:27:43.359 --> 00:27:46.049 that bearing the lines would be the preferred choice 00:27:47.019 --> 00:27:50.410 Of course he brought up the cost of going underground 00:27:50.420 --> 00:27:53.720 which I understand. But another quote I'd like to read 00:27:53.720 --> 00:27:59.430 to you from the executive golf. You have one minute 00:27:59.430 --> 00:27:59.759 sir. 00:28:01.940 --> 00:28:07.630 Discovery scary land development Has passed the $2 00:28:07.640 --> 00:28:11.430 billion dollar mark in annual real estate sales and 00:28:11.430 --> 00:28:12.049 membership. 00:28:14.339 --> 00:28:17.670 I think they can probably afford to bury these lines 00:28:19.440 --> 00:28:23.259 Please take all what I have said into consideration 00:28:23.259 --> 00:28:26.930 when making your decision, not just for us, but for 00:28:26.930 --> 00:28:31.059 all Texans faced with a similar David and Goliath situation 00:28:31.839 --> 00:28:36.009 Yes, we cherish our land rights as Texans, but let's 00:28:36.009 --> 00:28:40.329 be considerate of our neighbors if possible. I'd like 00:28:40.329 --> 00:28:41.769 to show you some pictures. 00:28:44.039 --> 00:28:45.900 Sure you feel free to hold them up for the commission 00:28:46.279 --> 00:28:51.569 It'd be hard to see, but okay, one pitch. Oh, there's 00:28:51.579 --> 00:28:52.059 two years, 00:28:53.640 --> 00:28:57.490 one picture would be what we currently see. The views 00:28:57.940 --> 00:29:03.220 and then the next picture would be we're the Caroline's 00:29:03.220 --> 00:29:03.589 would be 00:29:08.140 --> 00:29:11.920 this is the current view, the current view and with 00:29:11.930 --> 00:29:12.789 the power lines 00:29:16.140 --> 00:29:21.509 and that's approximately where they would go. Um early 00:29:21.509 --> 00:29:27.089 on in our talks P. E. C. And Discovery brought out 00:29:27.099 --> 00:29:31.670 a drone and they actually flew over where each pole 00:29:31.670 --> 00:29:36.559 would be and at the height the lines would be and so 00:29:36.559 --> 00:29:40.309 that's pretty close to what we would be seeing. So 00:29:40.309 --> 00:29:43.799 it's a it's a dramatic impact on us. 00:29:47.039 --> 00:29:49.109 Thank you for being here and sharing that. Thank you 00:29:49.109 --> 00:29:50.269 for your time sir. 00:29:52.140 --> 00:29:56.460 Okay linda crossword please. And after her brian Tolga 00:30:02.440 --> 00:30:05.119 Good morning. My name is linda Cross and I'm here as 00:30:05.119 --> 00:30:07.910 a member of the person Alice Electric Co op and as 00:30:07.910 --> 00:30:11.369 a homeowner I also want to thank you for the service 00:30:11.380 --> 00:30:13.970 your service on the commission as it's been a very 00:30:13.970 --> 00:30:17.700 difficult and challenging year. I also appreciate the 00:30:17.700 --> 00:30:20.740 staff at all the utility companies that work hard to 00:30:20.740 --> 00:30:24.509 keep our homes warm our lights on and provide clean 00:30:24.509 --> 00:30:27.549 drinking water. I do not take these things for granted 00:30:28.240 --> 00:30:31.650 I'm here today to ask the board to not allow the rerouting 00:30:31.650 --> 00:30:34.650 of a high voltage transmission line as requested by 00:30:34.650 --> 00:30:38.299 P. E. C. And Discovery Land company or at a minimum 00:30:38.309 --> 00:30:42.039 required them to follow the CCN process as required 00:30:42.039 --> 00:30:45.609 by law. If this goes forward, I'm very disturbed that 00:30:45.609 --> 00:30:48.990 we'll have a high voltage transmission line relocated 00:30:48.990 --> 00:30:51.849 within 200 ft of our home and we'll have no say in 00:30:51.849 --> 00:30:55.819 the matter moving the line does not improve reliability 00:30:55.819 --> 00:30:59.619 or increase access. It's not necessary and will only 00:30:59.619 --> 00:31:03.460 benefit the developer with increased profits. This 00:31:03.460 --> 00:31:07.160 relocation will result in the decimation of many mature 00:31:07.160 --> 00:31:10.789 oak trees severely impact our views and result in a 00:31:10.789 --> 00:31:14.539 significant reduction in the value of our homes on 00:31:14.539 --> 00:31:18.269 a broader level. By approving the rerouting. I'm extremely 00:31:18.269 --> 00:31:21.599 concerned that all landowners in texas will no longer 00:31:21.609 --> 00:31:24.650 be able to have their voices heard when someone decides 00:31:24.650 --> 00:31:28.390 to relocate an existing transmission line immediately 00:31:28.390 --> 00:31:31.940 adjacent to their neighbor's property line. As you 00:31:31.940 --> 00:31:35.569 may know, the same concern was raised by previous puc 00:31:35.569 --> 00:31:39.460 Board members. I also believe we have not been treated 00:31:39.470 --> 00:31:43.119 fairly in this process. Me and my husband and my neighbors 00:31:43.119 --> 00:31:45.819 as member of the coop believe we are being excluded 00:31:45.829 --> 00:31:50.609 from any attempt at a resolution after discovery indicated 00:31:50.609 --> 00:31:53.299 they were willing to bury the line. A memorandum of 00:31:53.299 --> 00:31:56.589 understanding was drafted by rimrock neighbors and 00:31:56.589 --> 00:32:00.319 sent to P. E. C. And Discovery. This was not accepted 00:32:00.319 --> 00:32:05.390 by either party. We then asked for a meeting in early 00:32:05.390 --> 00:32:08.769 october of last year and were told by PVC that Discovery 00:32:08.769 --> 00:32:11.869 had not finalized their decision about an underground 00:32:11.869 --> 00:32:15.069 option and there was nothing to discuss with rimrock 00:32:15.069 --> 00:32:18.819 neighbors at this time. In late october. We had not 00:32:18.819 --> 00:32:21.849 heard anything and asked again for a meeting to discuss 00:32:21.849 --> 00:32:25.809 solution. We were told that the meeting was not beneficial 00:32:25.809 --> 00:32:30.859 until discovery requests or authorizes P E D P E C 00:32:30.859 --> 00:32:34.660 to proceed. We have also been told that we could not 00:32:34.660 --> 00:32:38.259 speak with our PE seaboard representative on this issue 00:32:39.240 --> 00:32:41.980 On February two of this year. Were very disappointed 00:32:41.980 --> 00:32:45.410 to learn that PC elected to follow motion with puc 00:32:45.410 --> 00:32:48.299 for a ruling on this matter without reaching out to 00:32:48.299 --> 00:32:52.349 us. I asked the commissioners to please not allow this 00:32:52.349 --> 00:32:56.460 relocation to go forward or at a minimum require CCN 00:32:56.460 --> 00:32:59.990 process. I very much appreciate your time and service 00:32:59.990 --> 00:33:03.460 to our community. Thank you. Thank you for being here 00:33:05.640 --> 00:33:06.059 Mhm. 00:33:09.440 --> 00:33:10.279 Ryan Toga. 00:33:11.940 --> 00:33:15.180 All right, thank you. Thank you. Commissioners for 00:33:15.180 --> 00:33:18.180 the opportunity to present to you folks today. My name 00:33:18.180 --> 00:33:22.660 is brian Tolga and I I and my wife, we live in 00:33:23.140 --> 00:33:27.619 on 281 shallow water cove there in driftwood uh in 00:33:27.619 --> 00:33:31.269 rimrock. We chose rimrock because or one of the reasons 00:33:31.269 --> 00:33:35.430 why is because the electricity was buried and it preserves 00:33:35.430 --> 00:33:39.450 the the topography of the landscape and the attractiveness 00:33:39.450 --> 00:33:44.009 of living there. Uh my my view here is the kind of 00:33:44.009 --> 00:33:47.200 the heart of the matter here or the Net net is that 00:33:47.200 --> 00:33:50.259 I think Peter and Alice started out on the wrong foot 00:33:50.940 --> 00:33:54.500 by just providing notification without any due process 00:33:55.940 --> 00:33:59.769 Um Consequently we've had to go through what I would 00:33:59.769 --> 00:34:03.009 say at best as an ad hoc process. You know, we could 00:34:03.009 --> 00:34:07.710 go talk here we go Pedernales Electric uh board meeting's 00:34:07.710 --> 00:34:12.559 invent. We'd come here and and lodge you know our complaint 00:34:13.039 --> 00:34:18.199 Um and so it's just been very undisciplined and I'm 00:34:18.199 --> 00:34:21.969 not too sure that's really what the attack really envisions 00:34:21.969 --> 00:34:28.039 in this kind of a process. Um and so uh in July 00:34:28.050 --> 00:34:30.920 15, 2019 that's when we got the notification from p 00:34:30.920 --> 00:34:35.469 e. c. Um and it said relocation and related construction 00:34:35.469 --> 00:34:38.579 of the transmission line is scheduled to begin in september 00:34:38.710 --> 00:34:41.780 and will be completed in december. And then it said 00:34:41.780 --> 00:34:44.409 if you have any questions, call the Electrical engineering 00:34:44.409 --> 00:34:48.550 Manager and then it says if you have any complaints 00:34:48.550 --> 00:34:52.409 called P. U. C. S texas consumer hotline. The best 00:34:52.409 --> 00:34:55.250 part of that is they did provide the toll free number 00:34:55.739 --> 00:34:58.349 Okay? But I'm just thinking that's kind of that's not 00:34:58.349 --> 00:35:01.900 an engagement of trying to engage in a process. So 00:35:01.900 --> 00:35:05.079 we have no ability to really weigh in except to come 00:35:05.079 --> 00:35:11.340 here and uh and and voice our complaints. Um when we 00:35:11.340 --> 00:35:15.969 did provide the testimony back in december before Snowmageddon 00:35:16.340 --> 00:35:21.690 Um we did have that period of time with Discovery E 00:35:21.690 --> 00:35:26.289 C. Thank you and uh that was a positive interactions 00:35:26.300 --> 00:35:29.809 Um We talked about the drones and so forth. We went 00:35:29.809 --> 00:35:33.469 on the property with David Rhodes, the Discovery Project 00:35:33.840 --> 00:35:37.429 President. He was gracious. We went went through some 00:35:37.429 --> 00:35:43.269 options. Um but then over the summer they both parties 00:35:43.269 --> 00:35:46.539 P. E. C. And Discovery went radio silent on us and 00:35:46.539 --> 00:35:49.769 I'm used to going through negotiations and discussions 00:35:49.769 --> 00:35:53.260 and dispute resolution. And so that seems pretty odd 00:35:53.260 --> 00:35:56.800 to me. And so a few of us actually drafted up a 00:35:56.809 --> 00:35:59.210 memorandum of understanding to document what we've 00:35:59.210 --> 00:36:01.630 done today and do it in a way that was kind of 00:36:01.630 --> 00:36:04.460 a non lawyer. So it wasn't so threatening that somebody 00:36:04.460 --> 00:36:07.929 wouldn't sign it. But we we didn't get any action off 00:36:07.929 --> 00:36:11.650 of that. And so the next thing we know is that, you 00:36:11.650 --> 00:36:15.480 know, Pedernales Electric Files this motion the original 00:36:15.480 --> 00:36:19.860 motion seeking to get a decision without without acting 00:36:19.860 --> 00:36:23.559 like we've actually completed the discussion and negotiation 00:36:23.559 --> 00:36:27.719 process, which we haven't. And so I'm like that's either 00:36:27.719 --> 00:36:33.130 disingenuous uh or or there there was already a move 00:36:33.130 --> 00:36:36.289 afoot as far as what their what their in game was. 00:36:36.300 --> 00:36:42.650 So um as uh Doug Crossman mentioned, you know, last 00:36:42.650 --> 00:36:46.940 week at the Pedernales Electric board meeting, we heard 00:36:46.940 --> 00:36:49.750 for the first time, you know that there was a move 00:36:49.750 --> 00:36:52.349 afoot this week to go ahead and get that engineering 00:36:52.349 --> 00:36:56.340 analysis done. And so I'm saying to our folks this 00:36:56.340 --> 00:36:59.510 is kind of weird that, you know, Pedernales Electric 00:36:59.510 --> 00:37:03.000 Files this motion again and then there's still this 00:37:03.010 --> 00:37:06.469 activity that's going on that was in support of our 00:37:06.469 --> 00:37:10.969 discussions. And so I just want to say I've read the 00:37:10.969 --> 00:37:14.880 tag, I don't believe this is really what what's really 00:37:14.880 --> 00:37:19.739 considered and with more people moving into rural areas 00:37:20.230 --> 00:37:22.969 Uh this kind of issue is gonna come up more and more 00:37:23.059 --> 00:37:25.650 This is not going to be a one off. So, so thank 00:37:25.650 --> 00:37:27.599 you for your time, I appreciate you being here. 00:37:37.829 --> 00:37:41.280 Good morning Commissioners Chair Commissioners Two 00:37:41.280 --> 00:37:46.210 weeks ago almost, I was here on the docket number 51912 00:37:46.210 --> 00:37:47.159 which is number 10. 00:37:48.730 --> 00:37:51.179 And depending on how you decide on that case, I may 00:37:51.179 --> 00:37:54.380 be calling my client up and say you're going to be 00:37:54.380 --> 00:37:58.150 condemned. We're gonna talk to Ap and see if we can 00:37:58.150 --> 00:37:59.110 make some tweaks. 00:38:00.719 --> 00:38:04.440 That's a hard decision in that case. And we all recognized 00:38:04.440 --> 00:38:06.269 they had me the attorneys who were here a couple of 00:38:06.269 --> 00:38:09.880 weeks ago here today. This is not our decision because 00:38:09.880 --> 00:38:12.710 the line has already been drawn Commissioner And that 00:38:12.710 --> 00:38:17.449 line is 300 ft within a habitable structure. That's 00:38:17.449 --> 00:38:22.530 the line we use in 1 38 kilovolt cases, 30 45 kilovolt 00:38:22.530 --> 00:38:28.289 cases. We use 500 feet with inevitable structure. Those 00:38:28.289 --> 00:38:31.849 are the lines and hearing my client's arguments today 00:38:31.849 --> 00:38:35.820 and saying, wait, are we in a CCM process, are we before 00:38:35.820 --> 00:38:40.550 you asking you to pick a route that has been laid out 00:38:40.559 --> 00:38:43.460 among the parties and the interveners and the utility 00:38:43.460 --> 00:38:47.309 company and staff that had the ability through due 00:38:47.309 --> 00:38:50.349 process like Representative Weiner said to go through 00:38:50.349 --> 00:38:53.449 and that is a critical process, Commissioners and I 00:38:53.449 --> 00:38:56.110 am thankful we live in this country and I am thankful 00:38:56.110 --> 00:39:00.309 we have that process. The line here Is that if the 00:39:00.309 --> 00:39:03.360 developer was not trying to move the line within 300 00:39:03.360 --> 00:39:06.699 ft of these folks home it would be a different deal 00:39:06.809 --> 00:39:08.809 But that's what they want to do. And they provided 00:39:08.809 --> 00:39:15.289 that notice. If nobody had complained then P. E. C 00:39:15.300 --> 00:39:19.590 Probably would be being paid for by Discovery to relocate 00:39:19.590 --> 00:39:23.539 the line their attorneys are paying. So Discovery pays 00:39:23.539 --> 00:39:24.039 for everything. 00:39:26.219 --> 00:39:28.460 But that's not what happened. What happened is these 00:39:28.460 --> 00:39:33.130 folks complained and 25-101 says this commission can 00:39:33.130 --> 00:39:36.139 determine whether CCN is required. 00:39:38.420 --> 00:39:41.440 You can determine whether a certificate of convenience 00:39:41.440 --> 00:39:45.900 and necessity is required That somehow that part of 00:39:45.900 --> 00:39:48.170 all these rules is left out. And if you look at the 00:39:48.170 --> 00:39:51.440 proposed findings of fact number 13 in the what is 00:39:51.440 --> 00:39:56.090 missing is a fact is that if you do not grant these 00:39:56.099 --> 00:39:59.539 complainants complaint and you allow pE C. And discovery 00:39:59.539 --> 00:40:03.239 to go forward and relocate this line within 300 ft 00:40:03.909 --> 00:40:08.119 it's a fact And that should be number 13 I guess that 00:40:08.119 --> 00:40:13.969 would be 13 d. Yes. This commission approved a relocation 00:40:13.969 --> 00:40:17.329 of the line within 300 ft. We deal with these situations 00:40:17.329 --> 00:40:20.050 and the routing cases all the time where a big landowner 00:40:20.050 --> 00:40:22.539 will go to the utility company and said I've heard 00:40:22.539 --> 00:40:26.050 these conversations just like Commissioner D. Andrea 00:40:26.090 --> 00:40:29.909 and former Chairman Deann walker. They recognize these 00:40:29.909 --> 00:40:32.329 concerns that what's gonna happen is the back door 00:40:32.809 --> 00:40:37.590 after you approve around give the authority to condemn 00:40:38.010 --> 00:40:40.760 The developer says, I tell you what, let's just relocated 00:40:40.760 --> 00:40:45.349 on my property within 300 ft of 500 homes. That'll 00:40:45.349 --> 00:40:48.110 save me a lot of money and development opportunities 00:40:49.110 --> 00:40:52.809 That's wrong. And that's against the rules as written 00:40:53.409 --> 00:40:54.130 Thank you. Commissioner 00:40:57.309 --> 00:40:59.519 Evan johnson. Mhm 00:41:11.610 --> 00:41:13.829 Good morning Commissioners Evan johnson on behalf of 00:41:13.840 --> 00:41:15.659 part analysis Electric cooperatives. Thank you for 00:41:15.659 --> 00:41:19.019 your time today. Just to give you a little background 00:41:19.030 --> 00:41:22.449 we received this relocation request in 2018. Almost 00:41:22.449 --> 00:41:27.000 four years ago 2019. The complaint was filed in 2019 00:41:27.000 --> 00:41:29.849 and 20. We have sort of acted as a middleman and an 00:41:29.860 --> 00:41:33.559 arbitrator trying to get the landowners to come to 00:41:33.559 --> 00:41:36.469 some kind of agreement on this dispute. Frankly, we 00:41:36.469 --> 00:41:39.099 really see this as a private dispute between private 00:41:39.099 --> 00:41:42.340 landowners. This transmission line is located entirely 00:41:42.340 --> 00:41:45.030 within the bounds of the developers property. 00:41:46.710 --> 00:41:50.179 In 2020. After a couple of rounds of argument after 00:41:50.179 --> 00:41:52.570 requests for a rulemaking, after several rounds of 00:41:52.570 --> 00:41:56.929 briefing, we got a PFD and the PFD said that the relocation 00:41:56.929 --> 00:41:59.900 request complies with the relocation exception rule 00:42:00.210 --> 00:42:03.199 The PFD also said that there is no exception in the 00:42:03.199 --> 00:42:07.320 rule for the proximity of neighboring habitable structures 00:42:07.699 --> 00:42:11.349 We agree with the PFD, we agree with both those positions 00:42:11.349 --> 00:42:18.500 in the PFD um, In 2021, despite our agreement with 00:42:18.500 --> 00:42:23.699 the PFD, we um offered to suspend this proceeding for 00:42:23.699 --> 00:42:26.619 longer to allow the landowners to continue to try to 00:42:27.190 --> 00:42:32.110 settled their dispute. Um, that did not happen in 2022 00:42:32.110 --> 00:42:35.309 in January. We were informed by the developer that 00:42:35.309 --> 00:42:37.530 they would be moving forward with fever and overhead 00:42:37.530 --> 00:42:40.480 option or possibly an underground option. We don't 00:42:40.480 --> 00:42:42.500 know which one they want to move forward with but they 00:42:42.500 --> 00:42:44.699 said they would probably be moving forward with one 00:42:44.699 --> 00:42:48.519 of them. We informed them that in order to meet there 00:42:49.300 --> 00:42:52.059 project timelines as we understood them at the time 00:42:52.380 --> 00:42:54.619 we needed to move this proceeding forward so that we 00:42:54.619 --> 00:42:57.789 could determine what our construction timelines were 00:42:57.800 --> 00:43:01.880 on the relocation. So that is where we are today. That's 00:43:01.880 --> 00:43:05.449 why this is in front of you today. Again, we agree 00:43:05.449 --> 00:43:09.820 with the PFD um, and we would support you approving 00:43:09.820 --> 00:43:15.269 it today. Any questions, questions, is there a reliability 00:43:15.280 --> 00:43:19.539 impact for moving this line? Uh, not that I'm aware 00:43:19.539 --> 00:43:23.380 of commissioner. Like I said, this is entirely a relocation 00:43:23.380 --> 00:43:25.949 that's being done at the request of a private landowner 00:43:25.960 --> 00:43:28.750 paid for the private landowner located entirely within 00:43:28.750 --> 00:43:31.630 the browns of his property. That's what we read the 00:43:31.630 --> 00:43:34.559 relocation exception rules mean, we are just trying 00:43:34.559 --> 00:43:38.659 to accommodate one of our members as a landowner and 00:43:38.659 --> 00:43:41.440 we think it will complies with the rules. So all we're 00:43:41.440 --> 00:43:45.250 doing is serving as a middleman here. If you think 00:43:45.250 --> 00:43:47.030 it complies with the rule, we will move forward with 00:43:47.030 --> 00:43:49.469 it, but we'll just do whatever you tell us to do and 00:43:49.469 --> 00:43:52.820 would, would moving this line require you to take it 00:43:52.820 --> 00:43:55.960 out of service for some period of time. Thus potentially 00:43:55.960 --> 00:43:58.829 causing a reliability issue. I don't know if it will 00:43:58.840 --> 00:44:01.510 create a reliability issue, but yes, we would have 00:44:01.510 --> 00:44:03.300 to take the line out of service for some period of 00:44:03.300 --> 00:44:05.639 time. I don't think it creates a reliability issue 00:44:05.809 --> 00:44:08.079 It's more of a timing issue. Have you looked at the 00:44:08.079 --> 00:44:10.889 cost impact or the reliability impacts of taking that 00:44:10.889 --> 00:44:13.409 line out of service? I have not, I don't know what 00:44:13.409 --> 00:44:16.409 that is now, but I do know that that would be paid 00:44:16.409 --> 00:44:20.590 for entirely by the private. Not, not just the facilities 00:44:20.599 --> 00:44:23.710 but the impact potentially to the system. They would 00:44:23.710 --> 00:44:27.750 be willing to pay for that. I said, I don't know what 00:44:27.760 --> 00:44:31.030 the, what the cost impact is to the system, but is 00:44:31.030 --> 00:44:33.599 my understanding that the private landowner, the developer 00:44:33.599 --> 00:44:35.530 would be paying for all costs associated with this 00:44:35.530 --> 00:44:39.980 project. Okay. Um, one other question and that is um 00:44:39.989 --> 00:44:44.719 so it's your belief that as the transmission provider 00:44:44.730 --> 00:44:48.539 This exception allows you to not talk to your members 00:44:48.550 --> 00:44:52.409 when, when moving this line, that one person. One member 00:44:52.409 --> 00:44:55.960 can impact another member with you all just being the 00:44:55.969 --> 00:44:59.099 bystander on the side, just trying to make it happen 00:44:59.210 --> 00:45:02.389 in accordance with this exception. Well, I mean, let 00:45:02.389 --> 00:45:04.789 me clarify that because over the last four years we've 00:45:04.789 --> 00:45:07.599 had many conversations with all the landowners, including 00:45:07.599 --> 00:45:09.909 the complainants and the developer. We've tried to 00:45:09.909 --> 00:45:11.969 get them to get together to agree on this and this 00:45:11.969 --> 00:45:15.360 has been going on for four years. Uh, this this characterization 00:45:15.360 --> 00:45:18.329 that somehow we're doing this behind a veil or where 00:45:18.329 --> 00:45:20.219 you're trying to do an end run around your routing 00:45:20.219 --> 00:45:22.309 authority. I mean, it's frankly just not accurate. 00:45:22.789 --> 00:45:25.960 We have engaged the landowners, we suspended the ruling 00:45:25.960 --> 00:45:28.679 on the PFD for a full year so they can continue talking 00:45:29.090 --> 00:45:31.420 We noticed the landowners, they filed the complaint 00:45:31.429 --> 00:45:33.650 They have had due process during this whole process 00:45:34.090 --> 00:45:36.550 Have you had, have you had public meetings Ernie the 00:45:36.559 --> 00:45:39.099 thing that you might be required under a CCN process 00:45:39.099 --> 00:45:42.449 but on your own accord to get an understanding of the 00:45:42.449 --> 00:45:47.519 impact of the neighborhoods. I know that we have had 00:45:47.530 --> 00:45:50.230 meetings with the landowners themselves and then the 00:45:50.230 --> 00:45:52.710 landowners have spoken at our board meetings. I know 00:45:52.710 --> 00:45:55.360 we've talked thoroughly about the impacts to them and 00:45:55.360 --> 00:45:58.300 to driftwood drift was aware of the impacts. We are 00:45:58.300 --> 00:46:01.420 just trying to accommodate all the landowners. We want 00:46:01.420 --> 00:46:03.869 everyone to be happy, but at the end of the day we're 00:46:03.869 --> 00:46:05.989 just complying with the rules. Okay, 00:46:07.679 --> 00:46:11.500 So, okay, so we have um, three sets of complainants 00:46:11.500 --> 00:46:14.110 here today and I'm looking at this map and it looks 00:46:14.110 --> 00:46:17.599 like there's 13 plots around the property. Is that 00:46:17.599 --> 00:46:22.230 correct? That's my understanding. Okay, so um have 00:46:22.239 --> 00:46:25.010 have you has parnell's attempted to visit with the 00:46:25.010 --> 00:46:28.820 other landowners aside from the complainants that are 00:46:28.820 --> 00:46:31.429 here today with, I don't know if we have visited with 00:46:31.429 --> 00:46:34.010 the landowners, but again, we did send notice to everyone 00:46:34.010 --> 00:46:37.389 so everyone was informed of this and a lot of the landowners 00:46:37.389 --> 00:46:39.909 did file a complaint. So they have, you know, used 00:46:39.909 --> 00:46:43.210 the procedures available to them to contest the relocation 00:46:44.280 --> 00:46:46.420 So, um, there was some discussion here today about 00:46:46.420 --> 00:46:51.610 burying the line um based on your assessment of um 00:46:51.619 --> 00:46:55.090 of that option. Do you have any information about that 00:46:55.869 --> 00:46:57.849 The only information I have is that it would cost a 00:46:57.849 --> 00:47:01.239 lot more and that driftwood is considering it? Um I 00:47:01.239 --> 00:47:03.630 think the cost of it for driftwood gave them pause 00:47:03.630 --> 00:47:06.969 as to whether they wanted to go down that route based 00:47:06.969 --> 00:47:09.119 on what I've heard just this week. I think driftwood 00:47:09.119 --> 00:47:12.340 continues to consider that, but I don't know where 00:47:12.340 --> 00:47:14.380 they are on it. I mean they would have to pay for 00:47:14.380 --> 00:47:16.300 the whole price of it because it's entirely within 00:47:16.300 --> 00:47:18.909 their property. So if they elect to go that route, 00:47:18.920 --> 00:47:19.989 then, you know, we could 00:47:21.579 --> 00:47:23.510 we can cross that bridge when we come to it. But at 00:47:23.510 --> 00:47:26.190 this point, all we understand is that, you know, they 00:47:26.190 --> 00:47:28.409 want to move the project forward whether it's an overhead 00:47:28.420 --> 00:47:29.500 or an underground option. 00:47:34.880 --> 00:47:39.489 I don't have to do other questions. How much? Thank 00:47:39.489 --> 00:47:42.039 you. Thank you, Kourtney jinx. 00:47:55.880 --> 00:47:57.750 Good morning, Chairman and Commissioners Courtney jinx 00:47:57.750 --> 00:48:00.670 on behalf of Commission staff Staff agrees with the 00:48:00.670 --> 00:48:04.860 PFD. However, we are happy to defer to your decision 00:48:04.869 --> 00:48:07.530 and take a look at reopening the rulemaking if he so 00:48:07.530 --> 00:48:09.090 desired. Thank you. 00:48:11.369 --> 00:48:14.340 You believe we would have to reopen the rulemaking 00:48:14.349 --> 00:48:21.079 on this and and basically unwind precedent two satisfied 00:48:21.929 --> 00:48:26.179 the complainants. No, sir, I only offered that as an 00:48:26.179 --> 00:48:29.349 option. No, thanks. I appreciate that. That's a hell 00:48:29.349 --> 00:48:34.510 of an option. Throw that around like candy. 00:48:37.559 --> 00:48:40.699 Any other questions for staff? Thank you. 00:48:43.670 --> 00:48:47.150 That concludes our oral arguments mr Jenner. Yes, sir 00:48:47.969 --> 00:48:50.829 All right, Thank you. And thank you. Thanks everybody 00:48:50.829 --> 00:48:53.690 who presented today for being here, taking the time 00:48:53.690 --> 00:48:58.320 out of your normal schedules and busy lives. Yeah, 00:48:58.329 --> 00:49:01.949 it's one thing that if there's anything, everybody 00:49:01.949 --> 00:49:05.039 can agree on this, if this does not fit within this 00:49:05.039 --> 00:49:08.619 does not fit neatly within our existing CCN rule. Um 00:49:08.630 --> 00:49:12.389 it's a very, very gray area ah 00:49:14.769 --> 00:49:19.030 and uh I mean, it's it's a tough one. It's not, no 00:49:19.030 --> 00:49:23.440 matter what we what the a lot of the rules to look 00:49:23.440 --> 00:49:27.780 like. It's not, it's not crystal clear and it's not 00:49:28.099 --> 00:49:30.199 straightforward. Um 00:49:31.929 --> 00:49:37.550 I'm encouraged by the prospect of continuing engineering 00:49:37.550 --> 00:49:40.659 studies on it sounds like there's potential for ongoing 00:49:40.659 --> 00:49:44.360 settlement discussions. I would love to hear your thoughts 00:49:45.969 --> 00:49:48.159 So this this is obviously a difficult case. There's 00:49:48.159 --> 00:49:52.400 a lot of, you know, commission roles and pure at play 00:49:52.400 --> 00:49:57.159 here and commission President. And so if you're looking 00:49:57.159 --> 00:50:01.500 at um, you know, the case just, You know, with respect 00:50:01.500 --> 00:50:04.570 to our existing commission role, specifically subsection 00:50:04.570 --> 00:50:08.820 c. five d. That states that routing activities um do 00:50:08.820 --> 00:50:11.570 not require CCN amendment and specifically lays out 00:50:11.570 --> 00:50:15.139 a situation where um the requesting party agrees to 00:50:15.139 --> 00:50:20.030 pay for the right away and pay for the relocation expenses 00:50:20.349 --> 00:50:25.019 that strict reading of the role um would provide for 00:50:25.030 --> 00:50:31.019 um no CC in a minute we are in a rapidly growing 00:50:31.019 --> 00:50:34.579 state as as the complainants have noted with a tremendous 00:50:34.579 --> 00:50:37.239 amount of population economic growth and growth throughout 00:50:37.250 --> 00:50:40.980 the entire state um in rural areas and areas that haven't 00:50:40.980 --> 00:50:43.809 experienced that kind of growth in the past. And because 00:50:43.809 --> 00:50:46.210 of that, we're gonna be seeing these issues come up 00:50:46.219 --> 00:50:51.090 more and more in the future. And so um I think with 00:50:51.090 --> 00:50:55.940 respect to um striking a balance between that economic 00:50:55.940 --> 00:50:59.590 development, land developer, development interests 00:50:59.590 --> 00:51:01.760 and obviously landowner property rights, that that's 00:51:01.760 --> 00:51:06.019 where we ultimately need to come out. Um But as as 00:51:06.019 --> 00:51:08.980 I look back at, you know, we have commissioned President 00:51:08.980 --> 00:51:11.989 in the encore case that is consistent with the PFD 00:51:12.659 --> 00:51:17.860 Um If we ask for more facts, that would be saying that 00:51:17.860 --> 00:51:20.420 there if you look at the facts in the case, there are 00:51:20.420 --> 00:51:24.510 no genuine issues of material fact. There is the facts 00:51:24.510 --> 00:51:27.349 are not disputed. The landowner please don't approach 00:51:27.349 --> 00:51:31.190 and let's ask the requesting party has agreed to pay 00:51:31.190 --> 00:51:33.599 for the relocation expenses and to provide the right 00:51:33.599 --> 00:51:37.510 away. So if we ask for more facts, I mean the facts 00:51:37.510 --> 00:51:42.000 are in dispute. So from my reading of motion for summary 00:51:42.000 --> 00:51:45.659 decision, there are no issues in material, genuine 00:51:45.659 --> 00:51:51.340 issues of material fact. Um I understand the concerns 00:51:51.340 --> 00:51:54.489 and and we've got to find a way to strike those that 00:51:54.500 --> 00:51:56.920 balance again between landowners, property rights and 00:51:56.920 --> 00:51:59.650 and these developers and the growth we're experiencing 00:51:59.650 --> 00:52:03.179 on the one hand. And so from a policy perspective, 00:52:03.949 --> 00:52:07.219 We will be opening up our commission rule 25101 to 00:52:07.230 --> 00:52:10.480 implement Senate Bill 1281 in the future. And we could 00:52:10.480 --> 00:52:13.179 look to see if there's some safeguards in criteria 00:52:13.179 --> 00:52:17.769 that we can put in the role. Um but our existing under 00:52:17.769 --> 00:52:24.269 our existing role um there is a pathway um for for 00:52:24.269 --> 00:52:28.639 this um developer to be able to pay for the land and 00:52:28.650 --> 00:52:32.889 relocation and the right away. So I am trying to sort 00:52:32.889 --> 00:52:36.070 of, you know, we have broad statutory statutory authority 00:52:36.070 --> 00:52:39.579 in Chapter 37. However, we have a role with a provision 00:52:39.579 --> 00:52:41.960 that was put in there by this commission to set policy 00:52:42.199 --> 00:52:44.159 going forward for these types of activities. Writing 00:52:44.159 --> 00:52:46.289 activities. Sure. I mean, if anything, the default 00:52:46.289 --> 00:52:49.260 setting is as you describe, but there's also an exception 00:52:49.269 --> 00:52:52.989 for us to take it up and see if there's if we 00:52:52.989 --> 00:52:55.050 need to determine if a six seasons. Yeah, 00:52:56.559 --> 00:52:58.780 yeah. So we'll be granting an exception to an exemption 00:52:58.789 --> 00:53:01.400 and that that's kind of, you know, from a policy standpoint 00:53:01.400 --> 00:53:01.679 that 00:53:03.849 --> 00:53:08.539 it's true, it's true and I'll stop there. Mr Chairman 00:53:08.539 --> 00:53:14.489 I would uh I would lean to um require a CCN proceeding 00:53:14.489 --> 00:53:18.920 on this. Um Well, I guess out of the gates we've heard 00:53:18.920 --> 00:53:24.260 a lot of oral argument. So I as usual I'd like to 00:53:24.849 --> 00:53:28.059 deliberate, deliberate digest this, table this for 00:53:28.059 --> 00:53:32.480 today and and digest everything we've heard um but 00:53:33.150 --> 00:53:38.800 so continue right as a as a former transmission developer 00:53:38.809 --> 00:53:42.920 um you know, uh having conversations with the community 00:53:42.920 --> 00:53:46.570 around the line that you're about to build is absolutely 00:53:46.570 --> 00:53:49.989 imperative in the process and every time a line has 00:53:49.989 --> 00:53:53.630 moved or built it impacts somebody versus somebody 00:53:53.630 --> 00:53:56.809 else. These decisions are never easy. I think the thing 00:53:56.809 --> 00:54:00.719 that is important is the due process in in a proceeding 00:54:00.719 --> 00:54:04.650 to allow everybody to have a comment. Um If this was 00:54:04.659 --> 00:54:07.670 the initial development of a line, um everybody would 00:54:07.670 --> 00:54:10.750 be involved in a CCN proceeding. Um We're going to 00:54:10.750 --> 00:54:15.000 face this issue more and more as these rural areas 00:54:15.000 --> 00:54:20.739 become more and more crowded. Um But for in my reading 00:54:20.739 --> 00:54:28.400 and my belief it's that um one person just cannot impose 00:54:28.400 --> 00:54:32.739 their will and hurt the will of others without some 00:54:32.750 --> 00:54:35.360 type of due process and proceeding in that regard. 00:54:35.530 --> 00:54:41.980 And so so I believe uh and I think that while part 00:54:41.980 --> 00:54:45.929 analysis, there are kind of a just a bystander here 00:54:46.230 --> 00:54:49.650 um they actually are the c C. N holder. So they are 00:54:49.650 --> 00:54:53.340 not the bystander, they are the actual entity that 00:54:53.340 --> 00:54:55.769 is being ordered to do something. So they have a role 00:54:55.769 --> 00:54:59.440 in this, they have a role to play to work with these 00:54:59.440 --> 00:55:02.539 landowners and make sure that the developer and the 00:55:02.539 --> 00:55:05.480 landowner find some common ground. So I would put it 00:55:05.480 --> 00:55:09.010 back on them to say you find the solution that makes 00:55:09.010 --> 00:55:14.210 both sides happy because they are the CCN holder, they 00:55:14.210 --> 00:55:18.639 are the CCN holder, but but again, well, there's a 00:55:18.639 --> 00:55:21.329 couple of things to unpack there and I fully appreciate 00:55:21.329 --> 00:55:25.230 it and I'm going to consider this. I don't know which 00:55:25.230 --> 00:55:25.719 way 00:55:27.539 --> 00:55:32.059 Points well taken the concerns about 50 years or decades 00:55:32.059 --> 00:55:36.789 of precedent in in this enshrined rule and how we have 00:55:36.789 --> 00:55:41.110 accounted for uh one individual's rights versus the 00:55:41.119 --> 00:55:44.559 public interest. Um And and and as you say, this is 00:55:44.559 --> 00:55:49.570 going to happen over and over and over again and there's 00:55:49.570 --> 00:55:54.320 a reason the statute has not been clarified in so long 00:55:54.329 --> 00:55:57.480 right? And there's a lot of versions of routine. Absolutely 00:55:57.480 --> 00:56:00.619 that don't involve capital. Well, and and I just put 00:56:00.619 --> 00:56:03.849 a scenario in the context here, okay, we're dealing 00:56:03.849 --> 00:56:09.670 with two ranchers and uh one rancher sees development 00:56:09.679 --> 00:56:12.690 coming out their way and they want to pay and they've 00:56:12.690 --> 00:56:15.489 got deep pockets and they're gonna pay to rattle line 00:56:15.500 --> 00:56:17.750 from the middle of their property over to the edge 00:56:18.230 --> 00:56:20.119 and you're dealing with just another rancher. Okay 00:56:20.119 --> 00:56:24.869 one guy, 11 person, 300 ft, he's got a ranch house 00:56:24.869 --> 00:56:27.780 over on the other side, but that line is clearly on 00:56:27.780 --> 00:56:30.019 the other side of the fence line, it's on the other 00:56:30.019 --> 00:56:36.039 man's property. Um, but that triggers under that, uh 00:56:36.050 --> 00:56:41.679 the entire CCM process. So it's a question of how much 00:56:41.690 --> 00:56:45.679 do we, and that's why I was asking, what's the line 00:56:45.690 --> 00:56:50.369 How much do we throw an impediment up to expeditious 00:56:50.369 --> 00:56:52.900 growth in an area? I mean, and I knew this would resonate 00:56:52.900 --> 00:56:54.550 with you from what you've seen at the Water Development 00:56:54.550 --> 00:56:58.239 Board. You know, how fast do you get things up? So 00:56:59.829 --> 00:57:03.159 I would say that it's likely that a CCN process that 00:57:03.159 --> 00:57:07.219 has impacts to landowners would go fairly quickly to 00:57:07.219 --> 00:57:11.199 streamline. That's right. So, but when the more folks 00:57:11.199 --> 00:57:13.909 you impact the more important that that discussion 00:57:14.630 --> 00:57:17.719 So it's to Commissioner Mcadams point in Commissioner 00:57:17.949 --> 00:57:20.309 LT II, I understand where you're coming from. None 00:57:20.309 --> 00:57:22.650 of this is easy, right? This is a tough situation. 00:57:22.650 --> 00:57:26.420 And and I think from a policy standpoint again, I think 00:57:26.429 --> 00:57:30.010 because our state is growing so much, you know, determining 00:57:30.010 --> 00:57:32.340 where that threshold is, is very important. Otherwise 00:57:32.340 --> 00:57:36.179 we're going to end up in a situation where we're constantly 00:57:36.179 --> 00:57:39.949 asking for CCN amendments when, you know, any landowners 00:57:39.949 --> 00:57:42.769 impacted and that's not a situation that is that is 00:57:42.780 --> 00:57:47.119 um, it's a it's a burdensome process for the landowners 00:57:47.130 --> 00:57:49.449 Um, it's a burdensome, you know, that, that they have 00:57:49.449 --> 00:57:51.929 to hire counsel potentially to get involved and it's 00:57:51.929 --> 00:57:54.750 just not a simple process and I just don't know that 00:57:54.750 --> 00:57:59.309 we if we're going to set a threshold and criteria that 00:57:59.320 --> 00:58:02.360 ultimately will require CCN amendment, then then I 00:58:02.360 --> 00:58:05.539 think that is more um right for the rulemaking that 00:58:05.539 --> 00:58:08.679 will be opening up um to examine those issues. So we 00:58:08.679 --> 00:58:10.960 have some set criteria. Otherwise we just end up in 00:58:10.960 --> 00:58:13.690 a situation where constantly requiring utilities, electric 00:58:13.690 --> 00:58:18.050 utilities to modify their CC. Ns um when there are 00:58:18.059 --> 00:58:20.269 private landowner disputes. Well, it also becomes ad 00:58:20.269 --> 00:58:25.579 hoc right? I mean, it's a case by case and no or 00:58:25.579 --> 00:58:27.750 it's just never ending amendments for routine 00:58:29.320 --> 00:58:33.789 transmission. So I may be wrong, but um I don't know 00:58:33.800 --> 00:58:37.949 that having one landowner requesting to pay for a line 00:58:38.380 --> 00:58:42.039 moved happens all that often. It might happen more 00:58:42.039 --> 00:58:46.019 than I know, but it might be happening. This may be 00:58:46.019 --> 00:58:50.250 the beginning of a process as rural texas becomes more 00:58:50.619 --> 00:58:57.489 populated. Um But again, to me um there there's a bigger 00:58:57.489 --> 00:59:02.090 issue involved here and uh well, if we have the right 00:59:02.099 --> 00:59:07.250 to provide uh you know an opportunity for CCN um I 00:59:07.250 --> 00:59:10.340 think that that's where we err on that on that side 00:59:10.340 --> 00:59:13.360 because that's what the legislature has given us to 00:59:13.360 --> 00:59:17.429 adjudicate these processes. Sure. Would only add to 00:59:17.429 --> 00:59:20.730 the point that the rule has written. It seems to be 00:59:20.730 --> 00:59:24.610 primarily focused on routine operations, maintenance 00:59:24.610 --> 00:59:27.570 of existing transmission doesn't involve any other 00:59:27.579 --> 00:59:29.960 landowners. That seems to be the bulk of the activity 00:59:30.750 --> 00:59:35.170 and we don't want to pardon normal business operations 00:59:35.170 --> 00:59:39.800 with the endless CCN amendments with like a de facto 00:59:39.800 --> 00:59:45.329 rule, but we also have to going forward as as articulated 00:59:45.719 --> 00:59:48.579 be considerate of the prudence of one is when this 00:59:48.579 --> 00:59:51.849 happens and it impacts homes and the rule has written 00:59:51.849 --> 00:59:57.610 is not. And again, I would say that, uh, while maybe 00:59:57.610 --> 01:00:00.940 this is not contemplated as well, but while the landowner 01:00:00.940 --> 01:00:05.460 has agreed to pay for the change of facility, the the 01:00:05.469 --> 01:00:07.820 new facilities and the movement of those facilities 01:00:07.820 --> 01:00:11.409 and all the costs associated with that, I would question 01:00:11.420 --> 01:00:16.849 if they have agreed to pay for perhaps any ERCOT impacts 01:00:16.860 --> 01:00:21.179 when that line is out of service, um, which could be 01:00:21.190 --> 01:00:25.500 very expensive. And again, kind of treading new ground 01:00:25.500 --> 01:00:28.869 here. It could perhaps be a bigger issue. I'm just 01:00:28.869 --> 01:00:32.889 wondering how you quantify reliability impacts. I mean 01:00:32.900 --> 01:00:36.340 I don't know. I think it's a question. It's a fair 01:00:36.340 --> 01:00:40.119 point. It probably depends on the day and the L. M 01:00:40.119 --> 01:00:40.550 P. S. 01:00:42.610 --> 01:00:43.239 Um, 01:00:44.909 --> 01:00:47.929 the like I said, I think we, we need to, we heard 01:00:47.929 --> 01:00:50.539 a lot today. We need to take time to digest that on 01:00:50.539 --> 01:00:53.030 our, our own. So I don't, I don't want to make a 01:00:53.030 --> 01:00:59.139 decision today. I will say again. We heard several 01:00:59.809 --> 01:01:05.110 folks mentioned what sounds like promising, I guess 01:01:05.110 --> 01:01:08.070 restarting of settlement talks, engineering studies 01:01:08.079 --> 01:01:14.460 underground option. So I would certainly encourage 01:01:14.469 --> 01:01:23.679 all parties to continue that. Oh, quickly. The there's 01:01:23.679 --> 01:01:26.570 as everybody can tell their varied opinions up here 01:01:26.579 --> 01:01:30.980 this is not a clear cut issue. This doesn't fit neatly 01:01:30.980 --> 01:01:33.329 into the existing rules we've got 01:01:34.940 --> 01:01:37.019 and there may be clarity down the road in an existing 01:01:37.030 --> 01:01:41.550 in a future rulemaking. But depending on how this goes 01:01:41.559 --> 01:01:44.550 uh Discovery driftwood may need to go through the CCM 01:01:44.550 --> 01:01:47.980 process, which is expensive and there are no guarantees 01:01:47.980 --> 01:01:48.730 on that outcome. 01:01:50.610 --> 01:01:51.289 And 01:01:53.210 --> 01:01:55.409 if you go through the CCM process, there's no guarantee 01:01:55.409 --> 01:01:59.690 that those lines don't end up closer than 100 ft, 50 01:01:59.690 --> 01:01:59.940 ft. 01:02:01.739 --> 01:02:03.230 And then as one as 1 presenter, 01:02:05.599 --> 01:02:07.699 He said plainly, which I appreciate is once once that 01:02:07.699 --> 01:02:13.539 process is done it's 50 ft, it's done. So we clearly 01:02:13.539 --> 01:02:18.619 have a lot of thinking to do. And would in the meantime 01:02:18.769 --> 01:02:23.780 I encourage all parties involved, including Cardinals 01:02:25.300 --> 01:02:30.929 two vigorously engage in those settlement discussions 01:02:32.769 --> 01:02:37.320 Any other thoughts? Mr chair? Yes, sir. Um 01:02:39.699 --> 01:02:43.050 it seems to me it would be useful for you to fully 01:02:43.050 --> 01:02:46.909 understand what negotiations are going on, what have 01:02:46.909 --> 01:02:49.510 gone on, what engineering studies are moving forward 01:02:50.099 --> 01:02:54.739 Perhaps personality would be willing to file something 01:02:54.750 --> 01:02:59.409 to explain where all these processes are in more detail 01:02:59.420 --> 01:03:03.250 Uh is there an engineering study going forward for 01:03:03.250 --> 01:03:07.090 under grounding? Is this discovery property? What what 01:03:07.090 --> 01:03:10.090 what are they doing? I mean, y'all y'all hear all this 01:03:10.090 --> 01:03:14.230 today. And but you don't know, you don't really know 01:03:14.670 --> 01:03:17.030 someone's got to tell you. And and it seems like you 01:03:17.030 --> 01:03:20.670 should ask these people to tell you some of these facts 01:03:21.500 --> 01:03:26.019 Perhaps it makes your decision easier to me. So what 01:03:26.019 --> 01:03:29.329 are you suggesting? Remanding it back or what 01:03:34.099 --> 01:03:36.969 delegate authority to me to issue an order to request 01:03:36.969 --> 01:03:40.829 that personality make a filing to fully explain the 01:03:40.829 --> 01:03:43.829 scope of the negotiations where they stand, what the 01:03:43.829 --> 01:03:46.579 board approved. As far as engineering studies, what 01:03:46.579 --> 01:03:48.960 engineering studies are being done on this line or 01:03:48.960 --> 01:03:53.269 underground studies being done. What is discovery doing 01:03:53.269 --> 01:03:55.320 on this? Ah 01:03:57.500 --> 01:04:00.139 I don't we'd have to I'm not quite sure what to ask 01:04:00.139 --> 01:04:04.079 We'd have to sit and think about it. But you don't 01:04:04.079 --> 01:04:07.210 know. I don't know how to tell you. You've heard different 01:04:07.210 --> 01:04:10.809 people tell you today certain things are going on or 01:04:10.809 --> 01:04:13.920 certain things are happening. It's very summery. Uh 01:04:14.489 --> 01:04:18.090 You need a fuller picture. I think fair enough. While 01:04:18.320 --> 01:04:21.170 we're thinking about all the testimony we heard today 01:04:21.170 --> 01:04:24.619 and are stakeholders are thinking about how to get 01:04:24.619 --> 01:04:28.079 the settlement discussion going on. Could you in your 01:04:28.079 --> 01:04:29.949 office think about what that order would look like 01:04:29.949 --> 01:04:32.309 So we can consider it our next meeting? I certainly 01:04:32.309 --> 01:04:37.309 will. And I would if if attorney for Personal House 01:04:37.309 --> 01:04:39.309 would stay till after the meeting to talk with me. 01:04:39.309 --> 01:04:42.380 Maybe they could help me draft a better order. Does 01:04:42.380 --> 01:04:46.449 that work for you think that makes sense? It would 01:04:46.449 --> 01:04:47.920 be helpful to get that additional information. 01:04:51.090 --> 01:04:54.670 Let's do that. And I trust you can be available. 01:04:59.489 --> 01:05:03.010 Sure you're you're welcome to address the proposed 01:05:04.090 --> 01:05:05.829 contemplation of an order, 01:05:08.449 --> 01:05:12.469 johnson parnell's Electric Co op, just very briefly 01:05:12.730 --> 01:05:14.789 I think we understand what you're asking us to do and 01:05:14.789 --> 01:05:17.349 we're more than happy to file something in between 01:05:17.349 --> 01:05:19.989 now and the next open meeting that lays out what we 01:05:19.989 --> 01:05:22.280 understand the process has been because there have 01:05:22.280 --> 01:05:24.659 been a lot of negotiations, phone calls, meetings, 01:05:24.659 --> 01:05:27.840 board meetings, many conversations between me and their 01:05:27.840 --> 01:05:32.159 counsel and we're happy to lay that out and um discuss 01:05:32.159 --> 01:05:34.789 with driftwood what conversations they've had because 01:05:34.800 --> 01:05:37.619 we're not partying all of these communications. Well 01:05:37.630 --> 01:05:41.059 I appreciate your willingness to engage in that. I 01:05:41.070 --> 01:05:45.420 think more importantly than what has happened is where 01:05:45.510 --> 01:05:50.869 we stand now. And I would ask that you engage with 01:05:50.880 --> 01:05:56.000 the complainants and driftwood two, you hear from them 01:05:56.389 --> 01:06:01.539 what their proposed next steps would be or what actions 01:06:01.539 --> 01:06:04.800 are, have already been, what, what has been put in 01:06:04.800 --> 01:06:08.760 motion and they may not line up exactly, but let's 01:06:08.760 --> 01:06:11.860 get it all. Is it fair to say? Mr Chairman, look, and 01:06:11.860 --> 01:06:15.010 I think we're all dancing around the issue of if driftwood 01:06:15.010 --> 01:06:18.599 is gonna be somewhat in the ballpark of okay with underground 01:06:18.599 --> 01:06:20.699 in a portion of this line, This is important factual 01:06:20.699 --> 01:06:23.699 information for the commission to know, um because 01:06:23.699 --> 01:06:26.050 we need to decide what river we're crossing here, is 01:06:26.050 --> 01:06:28.800 it a big one or is it a little one? And um 01:06:29.179 --> 01:06:31.639 and whether we're gonna unwind significant decades 01:06:31.639 --> 01:06:34.670 of precedent if that's before us right now, we're not 01:06:34.719 --> 01:06:37.630 and that would be helpful so they need to tell you 01:06:37.630 --> 01:06:43.550 something understood that work for you. Yes, thank 01:06:43.550 --> 01:06:44.409 you. Thank you. 01:06:46.480 --> 01:06:49.280 You can still keep thinking about it. That works. That 01:06:49.280 --> 01:06:52.789 works best right there to keep me out of it. Yeah. 01:06:54.079 --> 01:06:57.289 All right. We'll table this item for further no 01:06:59.980 --> 01:07:02.039 discussion and deliberation at a future meeting. 01:07:04.079 --> 01:07:07.750 Next item on the agenda please. (item:9) item nine is docket 01:07:07.760 --> 01:07:11.110 51415 is the application of Southwestern looking power 01:07:11.110 --> 01:07:14.789 company for authority to change the rates. A note at 01:07:14.789 --> 01:07:16.940 the beginning, Commissioner Cobos has recused herself 01:07:16.940 --> 01:07:20.019 from this matter Before you are emotions for rehearing 01:07:20.019 --> 01:07:22.510 that were filed on February eight on the Commission's 01:07:22.510 --> 01:07:27.380 Order filed January 14. Thank you sir. Pretty straightforward 01:07:27.380 --> 01:07:31.820 A time extension thoughts, questions or a motion to 01:07:31.820 --> 01:07:34.289 extend time to act on the motion for rehearing for 01:07:34.289 --> 01:07:37.219 the maximum period allowed under the A. P. A. Is there 01:07:37.219 --> 01:07:40.980 a second all in favor say aye, I don't oppose the motion 01:07:40.980 --> 01:07:45.300 passes. The next item please sir. The next item is 01:07:45.300 --> 01:07:50.070 (item:10) item 10 Docket 51912 application a P tech system in 01:07:50.070 --> 01:07:54.659 the CCN for a transmission line and beaver furious 01:07:54.659 --> 01:07:58.800 san Patricio counties Uh proposal for decision was 01:07:58.800 --> 01:08:02.380 filed on December 22 exceptions were and replies were 01:08:02.380 --> 01:08:05.960 filed. So a L J filed a letter with two corrections 01:08:05.960 --> 01:08:10.909 to the PFD. I have a memorandum with proposed changes 01:08:10.909 --> 01:08:13.489 to the PFD and I remind you the commission heard oral 01:08:13.489 --> 01:08:15.849 argument at the last meeting. 01:08:18.569 --> 01:08:21.199 Yes, sir. We've we've heard extensive world argument 01:08:21.199 --> 01:08:25.399 extensive um evidence submitted the record. Ah 01:08:28.270 --> 01:08:31.289 These are never easy as we all know the 01:08:35.369 --> 01:08:40.409 taking everything in. I'm still still, I haven't been 01:08:40.409 --> 01:08:43.550 convinced of anything, anything beats out right in 01:08:44.869 --> 01:08:49.920 um one of the cheapest second shortest minimal impact 01:08:49.920 --> 01:08:54.880 on habitable structures um parallels existing right 01:08:54.880 --> 01:08:57.600 away. But happy to hear, I'm happy to hear thoughts 01:08:59.569 --> 01:09:00.210 comments. 01:09:02.869 --> 01:09:07.100 Uh So I think we've got a diversity of thought here 01:09:07.109 --> 01:09:10.359 I think it will be useful for everybody to to lay some 01:09:10.359 --> 01:09:12.399 cards on the table and how they're looking at this 01:09:12.869 --> 01:09:17.729 Um I thought https initial recommendation was compelling 01:09:17.739 --> 01:09:22.529 Um I think the fact of the effect and the positive 01:09:22.529 --> 01:09:27.399 beneficial effect on the wind farm is compelling, compelling 01:09:28.069 --> 01:09:33.210 Thus the positive effect for burke hollow. Um as one 01:09:33.210 --> 01:09:41.010 of the the interveners who testified um as such, I 01:09:41.010 --> 01:09:42.760 was looking at route L 01:09:44.470 --> 01:09:50.090 we we heard from the Turnbull's, we heard from mr Carr 01:09:50.670 --> 01:09:53.869 we know that those two tracks are sensitive areas for 01:09:53.869 --> 01:09:57.399 these landowners. Every property is sensitive for the 01:09:57.399 --> 01:10:01.989 individual landowner, but in terms of those that benefit 01:10:02.000 --> 01:10:06.960 from the interconnection. Um along this route, uh the 01:10:06.960 --> 01:10:10.420 avoidance of those who do not benefit and the slightest 01:10:10.680 --> 01:10:15.710 to me is is important and thus the cars and the Turnbull's 01:10:15.720 --> 01:10:20.619 testimony was was compelling. So, from a cost perspective 01:10:20.630 --> 01:10:23.140 from a length of line perspective, from a number of 01:10:23.140 --> 01:10:29.289 turns perspective um and a conforming route that tried 01:10:29.289 --> 01:10:32.529 to parallel as closely as possible to the initial recommendation 01:10:32.560 --> 01:10:37.239 by the utility in question. I looked heavily at route 01:10:37.250 --> 01:10:41.670 Elk L is the shortest, it's the cheapest. It follows 01:10:41.670 --> 01:10:45.680 the ap line. Uh It affects the wind farm just as much 01:10:45.680 --> 01:10:49.840 as as any of the other three routes um in our menu 01:10:49.840 --> 01:10:54.210 that that we've debated and um and it would benefit 01:10:54.220 --> 01:10:58.500 that wind farm maintains that benefit test. So um I 01:10:58.500 --> 01:11:00.369 would just lay that on the table and I know Commissioner 01:11:00.369 --> 01:11:04.560 Gladfelter has had some good arguments. Well I would 01:11:04.569 --> 01:11:09.090 appreciate um I appreciate this case. I I know we have 01:11:09.090 --> 01:11:11.489 to get on with it. Um I don't know if it's this 01:11:11.489 --> 01:11:13.880 meeting or the next meeting as you know, I throw it 01:11:13.880 --> 01:11:17.930 out there, but um I've looked at all these routes um 01:11:17.939 --> 01:11:21.149 and uh I hate to say this but I'm not happy with 01:11:21.159 --> 01:11:25.449 L. M. N. T. Z. Or I. S. R. I'm happy with 01:11:25.460 --> 01:11:30.140 G. Which is not one that's really in all of our wheelhouse 01:11:30.140 --> 01:11:35.890 for discussion. Um My view is that crossing smaller 01:11:35.890 --> 01:11:41.189 tracts of land is, here's a challenge. Um longer tracks 01:11:41.199 --> 01:11:47.779 um including the Barkalow track um would allow for 01:11:47.779 --> 01:11:53.369 a much longer span that is straight, which cuts down 01:11:53.369 --> 01:11:58.479 on cost. Um There is a wind farm on the Barkalow property 01:11:59.159 --> 01:12:02.100 I still haven't been able to totally understand if 01:12:02.100 --> 01:12:04.720 the uranium mining is on this part of the burke, hollow 01:12:04.720 --> 01:12:09.350 property or not, but um they obviously have industrial 01:12:09.350 --> 01:12:13.229 uses for these properties. And um I think if there's 01:12:13.229 --> 01:12:19.909 no impact on the wind farm operations um then uh My 01:12:19.909 --> 01:12:23.079 view would be I want to go across uh and find a 01:12:23.090 --> 01:12:28.649 route through on segments 39, and 43 which crossed 01:12:28.649 --> 01:12:33.479 their property to uh um to the detriment of them unfortunately 01:12:33.479 --> 01:12:36.539 but to the betterment of those who have smaller ranches 01:12:36.539 --> 01:12:39.430 and smaller farms to the south and have chosen not 01:12:39.439 --> 01:12:43.079 to make their property an industrial type property 01:12:46.949 --> 01:12:47.670 So G. 01:12:50.140 --> 01:12:51.000 Gladfelter. 01:12:57.100 --> 01:13:02.319 Um Well I'll just pick my initial L. I'm just kidding 01:13:02.329 --> 01:13:06.420 Um Okay, so I had looked at yeah. Or see right. I 01:13:06.420 --> 01:13:09.850 mean yeah, actually that's my last name, so. Okay. 01:13:09.859 --> 01:13:13.470 So I mean I think if we're going to look at other 01:13:13.470 --> 01:13:17.380 routes, I I looked at other routes like L. And M. Um 01:13:17.390 --> 01:13:21.590 I believe based on my understanding as well that L 01:13:21.590 --> 01:13:26.470 And M. Um avoid bisecting more land that were landowners 01:13:26.470 --> 01:13:28.880 actually live and maybe we'll impact the wind farm 01:13:28.880 --> 01:13:34.229 unfortunately, but um in terms of cost and length and 01:13:34.239 --> 01:13:38.399 um impact on landowners, I do lean on towards L. As 01:13:38.399 --> 01:13:42.189 well. I think that makes sense and we're going to deviate 01:13:42.189 --> 01:13:46.390 from the PFD. Um I would try to avoid as much landowner 01:13:46.399 --> 01:13:47.470 property as possible 01:13:49.050 --> 01:13:53.380 and and look to reap some more cost savings, impossible 01:13:54.550 --> 01:14:00.970 paul savings versus the recommended end would be Two 01:14:00.970 --> 01:14:04.460 million out of 50 million is about 4% cost savings 01:14:06.130 --> 01:14:09.270 G is not even in the table. So it's 54, 01:14:12.250 --> 01:14:13.159 more expensive, 01:14:15.000 --> 01:14:16.760 so 8% 01:14:18.739 --> 01:14:23.270 6% more expensive. You know, we we we do say that um 01:14:23.840 --> 01:14:28.250 these are estimates for construction costs, so we don't 01:14:28.250 --> 01:14:29.569 know the percentages. 01:14:31.140 --> 01:14:35.039 Oh, yep, This is not a $20 million dollar difference 01:14:35.039 --> 01:14:38.090 as we saw in the first time. Sure, these lines are 01:14:38.090 --> 01:14:42.350 pretty close in terms of routing and miles and cost 01:14:42.359 --> 01:14:45.140 for 4-6% difference on any of these options as well 01:14:45.140 --> 01:14:47.760 within the margin of error of the estimating exactly 01:14:48.689 --> 01:14:52.939 And just so, so you're clear as well. So if I'm fine 01:14:52.939 --> 01:14:56.289 with the PFD and in, but if we are to deviate, I 01:14:56.289 --> 01:15:00.449 would go with L. Okay. Um 01:15:02.239 --> 01:15:06.609 the and I certainly want to give great deference to 01:15:06.619 --> 01:15:09.619 our transmission expert when it comes to transmission 01:15:09.619 --> 01:15:10.060 issues. 01:15:12.140 --> 01:15:19.100 So, given the variety of opinions I'd like the chance 01:15:19.100 --> 01:15:22.859 to investigate. Yeah. G further 01:15:25.140 --> 01:15:30.489 what looked at L was that was in the mix from the 01:15:30.500 --> 01:15:35.119 beginning appreciate that. Well, I mean, it's, 01:15:36.979 --> 01:15:38.270 and take a closer look at L 01:15:40.939 --> 01:15:43.800 and I would say to interrupt you real quick, I'm sorry 01:15:43.810 --> 01:15:48.359 Um that I think more information on G is warranted 01:15:48.369 --> 01:15:51.869 because I don't know what the impact is on the wind 01:15:51.869 --> 01:15:55.630 farms across the burke hall outside and that would 01:15:55.630 --> 01:15:59.319 be informative to me to understand what that is. Um 01:15:59.329 --> 01:16:04.619 So if if if you're if you're asking to uh to delay 01:16:04.619 --> 01:16:06.810 this perhaps for one more meeting, I would I would 01:16:06.819 --> 01:16:11.960 be amenable to that to ensure that we get that information 01:16:12.270 --> 01:16:16.550 agreed. Any other information from any of us. Do we 01:16:16.550 --> 01:16:20.340 want to get a p appear to give them some direction 01:16:22.130 --> 01:16:22.640 We have 01:16:28.189 --> 01:16:31.720 and this is a critical line and a priority for our 01:16:31.720 --> 01:16:35.449 cut. So we need to be thorough and deliberate but we 01:16:35.449 --> 01:16:38.399 also need to move expeditiously. Good morning Commissioners 01:16:38.399 --> 01:16:40.000 Kerry McGrath for ap texas. 01:16:42.770 --> 01:16:44.750 Good morning, Good morning Commissioner ERCOT filthy 01:16:47.010 --> 01:16:49.420 request for information. Well, yeah, I'd like to request 01:16:49.420 --> 01:16:52.720 information about the the routing impacts and and others 01:16:52.729 --> 01:16:57.710 um from uh that you all might have um dealing with 01:16:57.710 --> 01:17:01.130 the Burkholder property with the wind farms. Um, obviously 01:17:01.130 --> 01:17:03.630 tower, I don't know the tower height and structure 01:17:03.630 --> 01:17:05.750 that would if it would be modified to go across that 01:17:05.760 --> 01:17:09.060 piece of property with other facilities there um or 01:17:09.060 --> 01:17:12.710 how that might impact that that property, but I know 01:17:12.710 --> 01:17:18.569 that it's not um one that has been uh deeply discussed 01:17:18.579 --> 01:17:22.199 um as a potential agreed upon route and therefore I 01:17:22.199 --> 01:17:26.029 just request that you all have more information uh 01:17:26.039 --> 01:17:29.960 in that regard, we would be glad to look and provide 01:17:29.960 --> 01:17:33.300 you what we can, we are wary of going outside of the 01:17:33.300 --> 01:17:36.510 record that was made in this case for process reasons 01:17:36.520 --> 01:17:38.819 but certainly to the extent there is information in 01:17:38.819 --> 01:17:41.449 the record, we'd be happy to provide that to you if 01:17:41.449 --> 01:17:43.939 the parties are willing to agree to additional information 01:17:43.939 --> 01:17:45.250 we could we could do that too. 01:17:47.329 --> 01:17:50.279 The work that works. Thank you. And any other requests 01:17:50.279 --> 01:17:51.350 for information regarding. 01:17:53.850 --> 01:17:55.550 Well, it's my understanding all the information for 01:17:55.550 --> 01:17:58.520 ales in the record and obviously yes, all these rats 01:17:58.520 --> 01:18:00.710 are in the record and the question of the impact on 01:18:00.720 --> 01:18:03.640 the wind turbines. I don't know what we've got to look 01:18:03.640 --> 01:18:03.939 and see. 01:18:05.869 --> 01:18:08.260 I know I made some comments about the impact the routing 01:18:08.260 --> 01:18:11.109 of L on landowners and wind turbine was that fairly 01:18:11.109 --> 01:18:13.109 accurate? I think that's my understanding in terms 01:18:13.109 --> 01:18:18.460 of L doesn't bisect as many as much land and I don't 01:18:18.460 --> 01:18:20.420 know offhand. I do know that were careful to route 01:18:20.420 --> 01:18:23.529 around wind turbines. This is randy roper with a P 01:18:23.539 --> 01:18:25.340 Probably can answer some of these questions better 01:18:25.340 --> 01:18:25.850 than I can 01:18:27.670 --> 01:18:32.869 raindrop dot ap When we route, we do uh get information 01:18:32.869 --> 01:18:36.229 from the wind farms in regards to their towers as far 01:18:36.229 --> 01:18:38.920 as to the wind blade, as far as the length of the 01:18:38.930 --> 01:18:42.619 blade as well. Looking at turbulence issues, looking 01:18:42.619 --> 01:18:45.220 at whether there is a lost blade issues that impact 01:18:45.220 --> 01:18:49.479 us, We actually develop a circle that we have is 350 01:18:49.479 --> 01:18:51.829 ft from the center line that we've agreed to them that 01:18:51.840 --> 01:18:55.510 that keeps them safe and keeps us safe. All the routes 01:18:55.510 --> 01:18:58.140 that were rounded, take that in consideration. So that 01:18:58.149 --> 01:19:00.640 that that issue has already been addressed. 01:19:02.420 --> 01:19:04.529 So you're saying the issue that's been addressed is 01:19:04.529 --> 01:19:09.659 that it can't segments 39, and 43 can be routed across 01:19:09.869 --> 01:19:12.939 the wind farm in a safe manner. That's correct. It's 01:19:12.939 --> 01:19:13.939 already been addressed. 01:19:16.859 --> 01:19:19.659 Any other, any other additional information? That would 01:19:19.659 --> 01:19:22.510 be great. We will we will provide you what we can including 01:19:22.520 --> 01:19:26.529 a summary of what Mr roper. Just be helpful. Thank 01:19:26.529 --> 01:19:31.000 you very much. Would you like to approach to please 01:19:31.000 --> 01:19:31.750 Please come on up 01:19:35.250 --> 01:19:39.079 his family and uh the others in the blind interveners 01:19:39.079 --> 01:19:41.260 go ahead and say all that again in the microphone for 01:19:41.260 --> 01:19:44.770 me. If you will. David Brown, you'll brown blanket 01:19:44.770 --> 01:19:47.170 night for team Michael O'Connor, who's my client as 01:19:47.170 --> 01:19:50.909 well as the Aligned interveners. Ah there's only one 01:19:51.420 --> 01:19:54.350 The debate is is a good one. This is a difficult case 01:19:54.619 --> 01:19:57.149 The one thing I'd like to clarify is this is not about 01:19:57.159 --> 01:20:00.960 Turnbull and Car against burke Holland, that it's really 01:20:00.960 --> 01:20:03.539 important. Now, there's the wind farm is all in the 01:20:04.210 --> 01:20:10.270 the northern part of this study area. So, what you're 01:20:10.270 --> 01:20:15.170 not considering, I think is the impact upon the O'Connor 01:20:15.170 --> 01:20:18.140 properties and the Edward properties because as we've 01:20:18.140 --> 01:20:21.430 drawn on our map in our joint reply to exceptions, 01:20:21.460 --> 01:20:27.489 you will see that route. T affects three times as much 01:20:27.500 --> 01:20:31.239 it by 63 times as much property in the last five or 01:20:31.239 --> 01:20:35.689 six miles of this. This route as does end, it bisects 01:20:35.699 --> 01:20:39.550 O'Connor in two places. It bisects Edwards and yes 01:20:39.560 --> 01:20:44.130 Uh it does minimize the intrusion on Turnbull and Car 01:20:44.510 --> 01:20:48.659 but that's you can avoid all that, you know? Yes. Yes 01:20:48.659 --> 01:20:53.989 sir. And and Well, two points well taken and looked 01:20:53.989 --> 01:20:58.199 at the facts on that. Try not to build by somebody's 01:20:58.609 --> 01:21:01.699 complex of houses, split properties down the middle 01:21:01.699 --> 01:21:06.130 as you know, I hear you. Um And then if I've split 01:21:06.130 --> 01:21:09.760 somebody, I'd really like some cost savings there and 01:21:09.770 --> 01:21:13.609 I don't get it. There is not with respect. There is 01:21:13.609 --> 01:21:17.739 not one criterion. The commission is charged with reviewing 01:21:18.609 --> 01:21:23.449 That makes tea superior to end not one. And that's 01:21:23.460 --> 01:21:29.170 clear in the PFD. And and again, if you're just gonna 01:21:29.170 --> 01:21:31.609 weigh those two routes and clearly you're not. But 01:21:31.609 --> 01:21:34.119 if you were just gonna weigh those two routes and you're 01:21:34.119 --> 01:21:37.119 gonna say which one fits the criteria of the that the 01:21:37.119 --> 01:21:41.979 commission is required to review, then it's very clear 01:21:41.989 --> 01:21:46.420 that t is superior or that it is superior to t on 01:21:46.430 --> 01:21:48.979 all of those criteria. And that's before you take into 01:21:48.979 --> 01:21:50.880 account the by section of land, which is sort of a 01:21:50.890 --> 01:21:53.439 fuzzy criterion which is more community values based 01:21:53.439 --> 01:21:56.819 or more environmental based. It's not as much as one 01:21:56.819 --> 01:21:58.550 of the list of things that you're supposed to check 01:21:58.550 --> 01:22:01.609 off as you look at this, there's no question. I mean 01:22:01.609 --> 01:22:05.350 the PFD makes it very clear it didn't select in accidentally 01:22:05.359 --> 01:22:08.909 It selected it over Tea on the basis of the criteria 01:22:08.909 --> 01:22:12.979 that the judges and you are required to evaluate. And 01:22:13.039 --> 01:22:15.970 that's I understand that these these are not clear 01:22:15.970 --> 01:22:19.010 cut cases. There's plenty of room for argument on on 01:22:19.020 --> 01:22:21.460 different routing and things like that. But this is 01:22:21.460 --> 01:22:26.789 not Burke hollow versus Turnbull car. This is a CCN 01:22:26.789 --> 01:22:29.090 case where you're weighing the criterion on a route 01:22:29.100 --> 01:22:31.760 end to end. Would you agree at the end of the day 01:22:31.760 --> 01:22:35.100 I'm just basically, it's a jump ball between neighbors 01:22:35.180 --> 01:22:38.020 I mean on this. No, I wouldn't. And the reason I say 01:22:38.020 --> 01:22:41.029 that is because again, the if you're going to just 01:22:41.029 --> 01:22:43.250 look at by section and you can't, but if you're just 01:22:43.250 --> 01:22:45.829 gonna look at by section, your choice between N and 01:22:45.829 --> 01:22:52.069 T. Is if you choose in, you bisect 1.91 mi of property 01:22:52.079 --> 01:22:55.859 in that last, you know, five or 6 miles. If you choose 01:22:55.869 --> 01:23:02.060 T, you bisect six miles of property through Edward's 01:23:02.319 --> 01:23:08.220 Turnbull or Edwards O'Connor and and Burke Holland 01:23:08.689 --> 01:23:11.239 And if you want to call Burke hollow industrial property 01:23:11.250 --> 01:23:14.359 even though nothing in the south of that transmission 01:23:14.359 --> 01:23:20.180 line that's already there, The tie the gente is industrialized 01:23:21.100 --> 01:23:23.789 Okay. I don't think it's a fair characterization, but 01:23:23.789 --> 01:23:27.189 if you want to do it fine. Uh, you're you're gonna 01:23:27.189 --> 01:23:31.210 burden these other two landowners excessively by doing 01:23:31.210 --> 01:23:31.420 that 01:23:34.600 --> 01:23:38.279 understood. And I apologize that we didn't ask for 01:23:38.279 --> 01:23:41.020 oral argument. We appreciate your giving us the time 01:23:42.000 --> 01:23:43.920 yep, thank you. Thank you. 01:23:46.800 --> 01:23:47.420 Come on up Cathy. 01:23:49.300 --> 01:23:49.500 Yeah 01:23:55.399 --> 01:23:58.630 thank you Mr Chairman. I will be very brief. I understand 01:23:58.630 --> 01:24:02.670 the sensitivities. Um We did file a letter to address 01:24:02.670 --> 01:24:05.689 this issue from Mr O'Connor's property, although there's 01:24:05.689 --> 01:24:08.000 not record evidence regarding any specific impacts 01:24:08.000 --> 01:24:10.949 on his property to the extent there is concern about 01:24:10.949 --> 01:24:15.640 a diagonal across that property. Um There are ways 01:24:15.640 --> 01:24:20.039 to follow t up to that point or make the you know 01:24:20.039 --> 01:24:23.430 you can you have this map but there's a diagonal here 01:24:23.430 --> 01:24:26.750 that that does cut across Mr O'Connor's property but 01:24:26.750 --> 01:24:30.470 you could follow t which does 3rd in which does this 01:24:31.289 --> 01:24:35.350 and and it affects it exactly the same way for these 01:24:35.350 --> 01:24:38.829 routes are in the record em affects the O'Connor property 01:24:38.829 --> 01:24:43.489 in the exact same way that end does. So you can address 01:24:43.489 --> 01:24:49.140 that issue without um burdening the complete dissection 01:24:49.140 --> 01:24:52.770 which is dividing into the car property and the Turnbull 01:24:52.770 --> 01:24:58.109 property. The um use of the term by section sorry. 01:24:58.149 --> 01:25:01.779 Um The use of the term by section for the burke hollow 01:25:01.779 --> 01:25:06.369 property is Is not quite the same. I mean it's a 29,000 01:25:06.369 --> 01:25:09.149 acre property that goes to the north of this. So it 01:25:09.159 --> 01:25:12.310 follows a rode through that property. Um The commission's 01:25:12.310 --> 01:25:15.039 historic use of dissection would not quite fit that 01:25:15.050 --> 01:25:19.329 definition. Um But you can't accommodate you can impact 01:25:19.329 --> 01:25:21.770 O'Connor and Edwards exactly the same way as they are 01:25:21.770 --> 01:25:28.409 by and and still not bisect the car Turnbull property 01:25:28.989 --> 01:25:31.750 and the cost savings are in the in the record. That's 01:25:31.750 --> 01:25:36.130 all there. Um, we appreciate your intense look at this 01:25:36.130 --> 01:25:40.609 and look at creative options and A P. S. Put the routes 01:25:40.609 --> 01:25:43.260 on the table there, there the segments are all noticed 01:25:43.270 --> 01:25:45.680 They can be, as they've said, they can construct any 01:25:45.680 --> 01:25:48.989 of them, but there is extensive record evidence of 01:25:48.989 --> 01:25:51.899 this specific impact to the car and Turnbull properties 01:25:51.899 --> 01:25:54.840 in the record. There is not that evidence on the other 01:25:54.840 --> 01:25:58.319 record on the other problems. I'd like to point out 01:25:58.319 --> 01:26:01.199 that the shortest follows the recommended drought, 01:26:01.210 --> 01:26:05.119 cheapest uh and affected affects one of the utilities 01:26:05.119 --> 01:26:08.460 that would benefit on this is not a creative solution 01:26:08.470 --> 01:26:11.739 in any other world other than this one that would be 01:26:11.739 --> 01:26:15.810 taken for granted. Uh And I look at staff and I'm like 01:26:15.819 --> 01:26:18.159 so you're okay with this and I'm like, blink if you're 01:26:18.159 --> 01:26:23.489 not okay, you know, so the settlement processes, uh 01:26:24.279 --> 01:26:27.760 we have our unique and I appreciate the experience 01:26:27.760 --> 01:26:31.520 that I'm getting here, but that's that's a point well 01:26:31.520 --> 01:26:33.970 taken. I probably misspoke by calling it creative. 01:26:34.119 --> 01:26:37.420 You're right. So Kathy, which route do you support 01:26:37.430 --> 01:26:42.460 again? Uh We support a PS route t because it follows 01:26:42.460 --> 01:26:44.810 the transmission line as it comes out of the substation 01:26:45.180 --> 01:26:47.899 but as we've said in exceptions and stuff, we would 01:26:48.350 --> 01:26:51.060 we think the next best alternatives. Probably from 01:26:51.060 --> 01:26:54.449 a cost perspective, certainly RL nm and we could support 01:26:54.449 --> 01:26:59.279 either one of those drastically over in and completely 01:26:59.279 --> 01:27:03.500 bisects both the car and Turnbull properties and you 01:27:03.500 --> 01:27:07.399 don't have anything on G G G we could support to on 01:27:07.399 --> 01:27:11.500 the northern portion G is the same as L and M. Okay 01:27:11.979 --> 01:27:15.920 thank you. Let's hope. Um, it's just, you know, various 01:27:15.920 --> 01:27:18.310 ways to put these segments together in that north part 01:27:18.680 --> 01:27:22.050 but it's this by section of Caryn Turnbull that, that 01:27:22.060 --> 01:27:25.659 we have extensive record evidence on the problems associated 01:27:25.659 --> 01:27:26.000 with them. 01:27:27.560 --> 01:27:33.689 Thank you. Thank you. All the what I have a lot to 01:27:33.689 --> 01:27:34.340 think about 01:27:37.079 --> 01:27:39.500 chairman like tom Forest here for college. 01:27:43.699 --> 01:27:47.340 Yeah, I think so, because I don't want to do is get 01:27:47.340 --> 01:27:50.359 into a second version of all argument and just whoever 01:27:50.369 --> 01:27:52.760 happens to be here is lucky enough to, well, that's 01:27:52.760 --> 01:27:54.989 a good point. That's a good point. But we have had 01:27:54.989 --> 01:28:00.149 others. I'm the one who, who has put this, um, this 01:28:00.159 --> 01:28:03.529 uh, throwing a curveball for burke hollow. So having 01:28:03.529 --> 01:28:06.600 them at least say something based on extensive transmission 01:28:06.630 --> 01:28:07.319 experiences 01:28:09.140 --> 01:28:10.100 come on up and 01:28:20.670 --> 01:28:23.399 thank you. Commissioner, Chairman Life, the rest of 01:28:23.399 --> 01:28:26.039 the commissioners. I appreciate it. I felt the need 01:28:26.050 --> 01:28:28.649 to speak because my client's name has been invoked 01:28:28.649 --> 01:28:32.340 a couple of times. The wind farm lease covers all of 01:28:32.350 --> 01:28:35.909 the acreage of the Thompson brand, which by the way 01:28:35.920 --> 01:28:39.250 has its historical roots to folks that fought in the 01:28:39.260 --> 01:28:44.510 battle of SAN Jacinto um, historical fact find some 01:28:44.510 --> 01:28:46.600 pretty modest people, they don't like to talk about 01:28:46.600 --> 01:28:49.380 that. That's how a lot of this land was originally 01:28:49.380 --> 01:28:53.750 settled. Um I would like to take a closer look at round 01:28:53.750 --> 01:28:58.119 G because quite frankly I haven't thought much about 01:28:58.119 --> 01:29:03.739 it until you mentioned it. But one important historical 01:29:03.739 --> 01:29:08.020 fact is that when we came to you for out I. S 01:29:08.020 --> 01:29:14.970 R. This past summer My client offered up 6.85 miles 01:29:14.979 --> 01:29:21.770 of right away on the ranch 6.85. That mileage leads 01:29:21.770 --> 01:29:27.840 to cost. The cost is what ultimately doomed route I 01:29:27.840 --> 01:29:31.470 S. R. Was the cost. Uh What I would ask and what 01:29:31.470 --> 01:29:36.920 we'll try and address in in post meeting briefing is 01:29:36.930 --> 01:29:41.409 if you're going to come in the direction of the Thompson 01:29:41.409 --> 01:29:48.449 ranch, we would ask that you consider Lynx 46 47 a 01:29:48.449 --> 01:29:54.619 47 b. That runs along the eastern The boundary of of 01:29:54.619 --> 01:29:58.020 the Ranch 46 is there on the eastern side, it's on 01:29:58.020 --> 01:30:01.029 my client's property because across that fence line 01:30:01.029 --> 01:30:04.479 are established wind turbines that are generating power 01:30:05.859 --> 01:30:11.829 47 a. and 47 b. Ultimately lead into Grissom and last 01:30:11.829 --> 01:30:17.479 friday. When the car in Turnbull innovators filed their 01:30:17.479 --> 01:30:24.510 letter, They suggested 46 47 a. and 47 b. Alternatively 01:30:24.520 --> 01:30:31.050 we would ask that you consider 1925 and 28 Which run 01:30:31.060 --> 01:30:35.369 along the southern boundary of the ranch and ultimately 01:30:35.380 --> 01:30:40.970 hits 30 I filed a stipulation right before the hearing 01:30:41.460 --> 01:30:45.359 uh indicating that uh particularly as it relates to 01:30:45.369 --> 01:30:52.010 25, 28 and 30 which run on parts of team Michael O'Connor's 01:30:52.010 --> 01:30:56.409 property and also on the Turnbull property that my 01:30:56.409 --> 01:30:59.819 client would take the line, the right away on its side 01:30:59.829 --> 01:31:04.760 of the fence line. I don't want this to be a situation 01:31:04.770 --> 01:31:08.069 where the doctrine of no good deed goes unpunished 01:31:08.460 --> 01:31:12.560 is applied. My client has tried to do everything they 01:31:12.560 --> 01:31:16.489 could To protect their neighbors to the south, all 01:31:16.489 --> 01:31:19.859 of them. We opposed route in. I sat here on February 01:31:19.859 --> 01:31:23.500 the 10th and told you that we didn't like in we like 01:31:23.510 --> 01:31:28.619 Z or Z mod because the one thing that has been not 01:31:28.630 --> 01:31:33.260 highlighted in this process is that Z and Z mod doesn't 01:31:33.260 --> 01:31:39.319 touch any part of car ranch LTD it's all on the Turnbull 01:31:39.319 --> 01:31:42.909 property, there are no houses on Turnbull and when 01:31:42.909 --> 01:31:47.029 the Turnbull land and cattle company bought that property 01:31:47.050 --> 01:31:50.460 they bought it adjacent to an established a ep, high 01:31:50.460 --> 01:31:53.390 voltage transmission line. And the one thing we know 01:31:53.390 --> 01:31:55.979 about established high voltage transmission lines, 01:31:56.340 --> 01:31:59.510 there's a really good chance another one's coming maybe 01:31:59.510 --> 01:32:01.729 right next to it because that's one of your writing 01:32:01.800 --> 01:32:05.779 routing criteria. So my clients caught in the middle 01:32:05.779 --> 01:32:10.079 of this unfortunately. And again, we just asked for 01:32:10.090 --> 01:32:12.899 consideration. We can avoid, let's do everything we 01:32:12.899 --> 01:32:15.439 can to avoid all crossings the reason and I would agree 01:32:15.439 --> 01:32:19.369 with what Mr Mr Brown said it's not about the Thompson 01:32:19.369 --> 01:32:22.579 ranch against the car ranch against the Turnbull Ranch 01:32:22.590 --> 01:32:24.869 There's a whole bunch of people to the south that are 01:32:25.050 --> 01:32:28.539 really kind of being ignored If bifurcation and dissection 01:32:28.539 --> 01:32:32.859 is important. I would ask that you take those folks 01:32:32.859 --> 01:32:36.250 into consideration. My client certainly has. Thank 01:32:36.250 --> 01:32:36.880 you. Thank you. 01:32:39.750 --> 01:32:40.199 All right. 01:32:41.949 --> 01:32:47.659 We've got a lot to consider. We have every but he has 01:32:47.670 --> 01:32:52.880 the questions place that information requests that 01:32:54.649 --> 01:32:57.970 or desired to continue considering this. 01:33:00.310 --> 01:33:04.159 Yes. Alright. In that case we will table this item 01:33:04.649 --> 01:33:06.520 until our next open meeting 01:33:08.350 --> 01:33:11.689 again during this is a designated critical line by 01:33:11.689 --> 01:33:16.989 ERCOT And so we want to move forward quickly. Is good 01:33:16.989 --> 01:33:19.079 and healthy that we are being this comprehensive and 01:33:19.079 --> 01:33:22.609 deliberate about throughout this process. So I don't 01:33:22.609 --> 01:33:24.579 I don't want to diminish the value of that 01:33:26.550 --> 01:33:28.510 and a lot of work goes into it from our stakeholders 01:33:28.510 --> 01:33:32.729 and and the staff so I appreciate y'all digging into 01:33:32.729 --> 01:33:36.029 it. And well, let's come prepared to make a decision 01:33:36.449 --> 01:33:37.579 our next meeting. 01:33:39.949 --> 01:33:42.170 All right, next item please. Mr generic. 01:33:44.050 --> 01:33:49.000 (item:11) The next item is item 11 docket 51957. It's an n. o 01:33:49.000 --> 01:33:54.130 v. against SPS. A revised proposed order was filed 01:33:54.130 --> 01:33:57.079 on November 22. No exceptions or corrections were found 01:33:58.149 --> 01:33:59.170 Thank you sir, 01:34:00.840 --> 01:34:03.449 thoughts, comments, questions 01:34:08.970 --> 01:34:11.489 I was fine with the proposed order um that approves 01:34:11.489 --> 01:34:13.260 the agreement between staff and SPS 01:34:15.039 --> 01:34:17.369 Okay. Likewise, 01:34:19.039 --> 01:34:21.270 is there a motion to approve the proposed order happily 01:34:21.270 --> 01:34:26.109 So moved second, all in favor. Say, aye next time please 01:34:26.109 --> 01:34:26.300 sir? 01:34:28.829 --> 01:34:32.020 I guess that brings us 1819. I don't think we have 01:34:32.020 --> 01:34:38.199 anything on that on 21 now we have some comments from 01:34:38.199 --> 01:34:41.760 commissioner Cobos and it's just a commissioner. (item:21) 01:34:43.640 --> 01:34:47.359 Okay. All right. Thank you chairman. Um I just wanted 01:34:47.359 --> 01:34:50.859 to note that ERCOT filed the information that we requested 01:34:50.869 --> 01:34:54.739 um regarding the comparison with other I. S. O. R. 01:34:54.739 --> 01:34:58.829 T. O. S on whether they had firm fuel product and standards 01:34:58.829 --> 01:35:02.029 and and more information on those other markets and 01:35:02.029 --> 01:35:04.560 also the survey results which I thought were very helpful 01:35:04.739 --> 01:35:07.340 I know that we don't have representatives from ERCOT 01:35:07.340 --> 01:35:12.119 here today. Um but I do, I would like for um dan 01:35:12.119 --> 01:35:15.109 Woodfin to attend the next open meeting to walk us 01:35:15.109 --> 01:35:18.069 through the survey results. I I didn't want to pull 01:35:18.069 --> 01:35:21.409 him away from the grid operations this week. So I um 01:35:21.420 --> 01:35:23.399 would like to just understand that a little bit more 01:35:23.399 --> 01:35:25.949 and have him here to address any questions we have 01:35:25.949 --> 01:35:31.460 as I know ERCOT is looking to have a draft um RFP 01:35:31.470 --> 01:35:35.270 completed by may be the end of March sometime mid april 01:35:35.640 --> 01:35:38.640 and so I think just getting some questions that address 01:35:38.640 --> 01:35:41.020 there and that filing would be helpful. Um one thing 01:35:41.020 --> 01:35:42.640 I did want to note on the I. S. O. R. T 01:35:42.640 --> 01:35:46.289 O. Filing that ERCOT made was that essentially what 01:35:46.289 --> 01:35:50.710 they um we're able to find out. Is that no other I 01:35:50.710 --> 01:35:55.079 S. O. R. T. O. Has a ERCOT wide firm fuel product 01:35:55.090 --> 01:35:59.569 at this time and that. ERCOT will be the first I. S 01:35:59.569 --> 01:36:04.210 O. R. T. O. To have a ERCOT wide firm fuel product 01:36:04.220 --> 01:36:08.560 in the country. And I think that's just very um important 01:36:08.569 --> 01:36:12.689 to know that once again ERCOT is leading the charge 01:36:12.699 --> 01:36:16.369 in the United States to um launch a very important 01:36:16.369 --> 01:36:18.670 product to address issues that are being experienced 01:36:18.670 --> 01:36:21.890 throughout the country and that um, you know, I wanted 01:36:21.890 --> 01:36:24.600 to thank um, the legislature and the governor for signing 01:36:24.600 --> 01:36:27.600 into law Senate bill three to require the firm fuel 01:36:27.600 --> 01:36:31.020 product as it will provide a tremendous amount of enhanced 01:36:31.020 --> 01:36:33.649 grid resiliency for texas in the years to come. So 01:36:34.029 --> 01:36:36.550 I really just wanted to highlight that from the I. 01:36:36.550 --> 01:36:39.479 S. O. R. T. O. Comparison information that Cannon filed 01:36:39.479 --> 01:36:41.560 with terracotta. I just think it's an important fact 01:36:41.560 --> 01:36:44.569 and I was actually surprised to see that there isn't 01:36:44.579 --> 01:36:47.010 a ERCOT wide firm fuel product in any other ERCOT, 01:36:47.020 --> 01:36:50.649 especially in the Northeast and we'll have the first 01:36:50.649 --> 01:36:53.670 one out. Um, this next winner. Um, I know I was so 01:36:53.670 --> 01:36:55.949 new. England's looking to have one and it's being challenged 01:36:55.949 --> 01:36:59.439 but their goal is to have one out in By the following 01:36:59.439 --> 01:37:03.409 winner winner 23 24. So I just really wanted to highlight 01:37:03.409 --> 01:37:07.039 that because um, I think it's important um, an important 01:37:07.039 --> 01:37:12.689 fact to know. Yes. Well, well put that's a very important 01:37:12.689 --> 01:37:17.850 fact to know. Thank you for highlighting that and any 01:37:17.850 --> 01:37:21.399 other thoughts, comments. No, I I think it was Mr Chairman 01:37:21.399 --> 01:37:25.350 it was gratifying to see so much on site right now 01:37:25.390 --> 01:37:28.329 We we now have a ballpark of what we're dealing with 01:37:28.840 --> 01:37:33.859 Um and it's exciting that we're gonna be able to move 01:37:33.859 --> 01:37:36.539 forward on this for next winter. It's exciting for 01:37:36.539 --> 01:37:39.550 the public to know that it's out there. So feel better 01:37:39.930 --> 01:37:44.310 That's tremendously important point is that our we 01:37:44.319 --> 01:37:47.220 we have a good sense of what's out there now. We also 01:37:47.220 --> 01:37:53.380 saw our generators observe us adopt those reforms in 01:37:53.380 --> 01:37:57.600 december and before it was even set up being proactive 01:37:57.659 --> 01:38:00.470 in building out their firm fuel capabilities and the 01:38:00.470 --> 01:38:05.020 redundancies. So I appreciate those efforts, but also 01:38:05.220 --> 01:38:08.850 shows that the marketplace is responding to the actions 01:38:09.319 --> 01:38:12.079 That this commission is taking as as a result of Senate 01:38:12.079 --> 01:38:15.800 Bill three. Uh and we've seen the benefits of that 01:38:15.800 --> 01:38:18.310 this winter in the multiple cold weather events we've 01:38:18.310 --> 01:38:22.289 had. So incredibly important point. Thank you for following 01:38:22.289 --> 01:38:27.640 that. And appreciate our general partners being proactive 01:38:28.020 --> 01:38:28.350 Mhm. 01:38:30.520 --> 01:38:34.079 Any other Watch comments on item 21, 01:38:35.899 --> 01:38:38.520 22 is consented. I don't have anything on 23 through 01:38:38.520 --> 01:38:44.680 28. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks. That's correct. All right. 01:38:44.689 --> 01:38:49.260 Uh you got to work. (item:29) I felt a memo on item 29 01:38:49.260 --> 01:38:52.619 regarding NPRR1092. I think it's it's it should 01:38:52.630 --> 01:38:55.239 be pretty straightforward the, 01:38:56.819 --> 01:39:01.789 I've previously had hope for a aggressive timeline 01:39:01.789 --> 01:39:07.100 for adoption, but given the expensive stakeholder discussion 01:39:07.229 --> 01:39:10.720 that we have have had in the variety of perspectives 01:39:10.720 --> 01:39:13.720 presented, it's more important to be thorough and deliberate 01:39:13.720 --> 01:39:21.489 about that NPR r than hasty, so per per the memo, let's 01:39:21.500 --> 01:39:23.489 run through the process with this. I know there's a 01:39:23.489 --> 01:39:28.489 workshop being set up in ERCOT ah and I would ask stakeholders 01:39:28.500 --> 01:39:31.359 to as part of that process to make sure that we have 01:39:31.369 --> 01:39:34.689 everything on the record, submit written comments at 01:39:34.689 --> 01:39:39.250 ERCOT on this particular particular NPR are so that 01:39:39.619 --> 01:39:42.149 everything's all the positions and perspectives are 01:39:42.149 --> 01:39:46.720 clearly laid out for for everyone to consider and that 01:39:46.720 --> 01:39:49.930 we it is a comprehensive and deliberative process. 01:39:52.020 --> 01:39:53.750 Okay, I'll leave it there. 01:39:56.720 --> 01:39:59.300 Mr Chairman, I I fully support your memo. I appreciate 01:39:59.300 --> 01:40:03.050 the, the spirit behind the memo taking a detailed look 01:40:03.050 --> 01:40:06.720 given the broad scope of stakeholder feedback. Um, 01:40:07.210 --> 01:40:14.529 I would not necessarily on 1092 is one issue, I believe 01:40:14.539 --> 01:40:18.560 the subject of 1092 raises other considerations that 01:40:18.569 --> 01:40:21.630 ercot may want to keep in mind in the near future. 01:40:22.109 --> 01:40:25.989 Um and and for tax and tax deliberation, not necessarily 01:40:25.989 --> 01:40:32.359 under 1092, but um as we move in into the spring, under 01:40:32.359 --> 01:40:35.970 the new paradigm of of an adjusted O. R. D. C. As 01:40:35.970 --> 01:40:40.279 part of our phase one ERCOT reforms yesterday we saw 01:40:40.279 --> 01:40:44.090 an extraordinary, extraordinary amount of volatility 01:40:44.100 --> 01:40:48.590 in our ERCOT, especially in real time. We saw that 01:40:48.590 --> 01:40:52.340 prices spiked for a sustained period even while ample 01:40:52.340 --> 01:40:56.520 reserves appeared to be available now as I understand 01:40:56.520 --> 01:41:00.529 it, this may have been attributed to O. R. D. C. And 01:41:00.529 --> 01:41:05.039 reliability deployment price ADDers ADDers. Um because 01:41:05.039 --> 01:41:07.609 under our current policy, the formulas for which these 01:41:07.609 --> 01:41:11.170 ADDers are based do not reflect the reserves ERCOT 01:41:11.180 --> 01:41:14.680 has contracted for through rock. And so what I would 01:41:14.680 --> 01:41:18.630 ask the stakeholder community to look at is to begin 01:41:18.630 --> 01:41:22.329 discussing in review and ensure through your deliberations 01:41:22.710 --> 01:41:25.850 that our policies, because we've adopted a lot of policies 01:41:25.850 --> 01:41:29.100 as a part of our framework to ensure reliability that 01:41:29.109 --> 01:41:32.489 all of this is harmonized to where that works in concert 01:41:32.659 --> 01:41:35.569 to where we don't experience any unintended consequences 01:41:35.699 --> 01:41:38.720 that adversely affect affect price formation in our 01:41:38.720 --> 01:41:42.069 ERCOT and then to the cost effects to our consumers 01:41:42.310 --> 01:41:45.569 without, you know, giving us that reliability benefit 01:41:45.579 --> 01:41:48.340 We want to make sure that we're paying for adequately 01:41:48.340 --> 01:41:52.109 for what we get but we don't want to overpay. Um so 01:41:52.109 --> 01:41:55.939 I think the stakeholder processes is teed up to discuss 01:41:55.939 --> 01:41:59.770 all this. Having listened to the last attack uh session 01:41:59.779 --> 01:42:01.920 it sounds like they were already thinking about this 01:42:01.930 --> 01:42:04.909 So just as one commissioner, I would urge them to continue 01:42:04.909 --> 01:42:07.439 those discussions, I look forward to watching the workshop 01:42:07.449 --> 01:42:11.979 that they set up in March. Thank you Commissioner Mcadams 01:42:11.989 --> 01:42:14.210 some great points and thank you chairman for your memo 01:42:14.220 --> 01:42:17.630 Um I I agree with you um in principle with your memo 01:42:17.630 --> 01:42:20.300 I mean we all got an extensive amount of stakeholder 01:42:20.300 --> 01:42:24.670 feedback after the january 27th open meeting, um, I've 01:42:24.670 --> 01:42:26.829 reviewed the stakeholder comments that have been filed 01:42:26.829 --> 01:42:30.550 as far at ERCOT and watch heard the tax discussion 01:42:30.550 --> 01:42:34.159 and um, you know, it's, it's very important that um 01:42:34.159 --> 01:42:37.479 we don't move hastily as you said and and really make 01:42:37.479 --> 01:42:39.680 sure that we don't have any unintended consequences 01:42:39.689 --> 01:42:44.119 as we must ensure that the review of the price floor 01:42:44.600 --> 01:42:48.109 um, if we're going to change it, then it needs to be 01:42:48.109 --> 01:42:52.850 reviewed under the construct of our are changes to 01:42:52.850 --> 01:42:55.119 the ERCOT design, like the lowering of the price cap 01:42:55.539 --> 01:43:00.210 the RTC changes and you know, firm fuel product. I 01:43:00.210 --> 01:43:04.000 know this a couple of weeks ago, ERCOT rocked the dual 01:43:04.000 --> 01:43:06.529 fuel capable plants so that they could switch to fuel 01:43:06.539 --> 01:43:09.899 oil and ERCOT has made a filing on the backstop reliability 01:43:09.899 --> 01:43:13.859 service that they would use rock um, process to um 01:43:13.859 --> 01:43:16.720 use that service. So what I don't want, like Commissioner 01:43:16.720 --> 01:43:19.550 Mcadams says to have unintended consequences by moving 01:43:19.550 --> 01:43:24.909 too hastily. Um, I will say that um, you know, a part 01:43:24.909 --> 01:43:28.100 of me thinks that these issues should be addressed 01:43:28.100 --> 01:43:30.619 later after we get our ERCOT reforms wrinkled out and 01:43:30.619 --> 01:43:34.220 and we kind of let the ERCOT operate and can adequately 01:43:34.229 --> 01:43:37.609 you know, as well as Commissioner Mcadams noted, um 01:43:38.399 --> 01:43:41.220 marry up our policies and and really take a hard look 01:43:41.220 --> 01:43:45.680 at this issue later um, and I understand um, you know 01:43:45.680 --> 01:43:49.170 the ERCOT I mm um, wants to address ERCOT manipulation 01:43:49.170 --> 01:43:52.569 issues and, and the I mm has full authority to go and 01:43:52.569 --> 01:43:53.710 investigate those issues, 01:43:55.300 --> 01:43:57.739 But you know, if we are going to move forward as an 01:43:57.739 --> 01:44:00.619 NPR are as we currently are in the stakeholder process 01:44:00.619 --> 01:44:04.550 I would state at this time that um, and I'm and I'm 01:44:04.560 --> 01:44:06.939 going to be reading the additional stakeholder comments 01:44:06.939 --> 01:44:09.609 that get filed, but $75 is the price floor is too low 01:44:10.090 --> 01:44:12.470 and I'm not convinced that the rock opt out should 01:44:12.470 --> 01:44:15.479 be eliminated, but I stand to be convinced by additional 01:44:15.479 --> 01:44:17.250 stakeholder comments, but that, that's where I'm at 01:44:17.250 --> 01:44:22.119 right now. I'm sure there will be plenty. And yes, 01:44:22.119 --> 01:44:22.909 we have met 01:44:24.489 --> 01:44:28.920 Dutch. I'm looking forward to the comments. We've made 01:44:28.920 --> 01:44:31.729 a lot of moves very quickly as directed by the legislature 01:44:31.729 --> 01:44:35.680 in SP three and the governor through his well articulated 01:44:35.680 --> 01:44:39.300 leadership. As always we need to be wary of the unintended 01:44:39.300 --> 01:44:43.029 consequences of taking swift action. We were directed 01:44:43.029 --> 01:44:46.399 to take swift action. We've we've done it. Uh, but 01:44:46.409 --> 01:44:49.930 we must we must always be vigilant to mind the unintended 01:44:49.930 --> 01:44:55.590 consequences, as we must always balance of this ERCOT 01:44:56.289 --> 01:45:00.119 ability to generate sufficient revenue for dispatch 01:45:00.119 --> 01:45:04.609 hable generation and reliability with consumer costs 01:45:05.189 --> 01:45:08.529 Uh, we can never let the scales go too far one way 01:45:08.529 --> 01:45:11.659 or the other. And you know, we're all committed to 01:45:11.659 --> 01:45:15.800 that and work work hard on it. I so appreciate, appreciate 01:45:15.800 --> 01:45:19.020 y'all being so thoughtful about 01:45:20.590 --> 01:45:23.689 about, about not only this NPR are, but how it syncs 01:45:23.689 --> 01:45:28.859 up. That's that, that thoughtfulness from each of these 01:45:28.859 --> 01:45:31.899 offices adds a lot of value to this process. 01:45:34.390 --> 01:45:38.050 I think that covers 29. I don't have anything for 30 01:45:39.590 --> 01:45:44.310 It takes us to 34. Don't have anything on that. 35 01:45:44.319 --> 01:45:50.510 mr (item:35) 35 project 43518 I filed a memo with a proposed 01:45:50.510 --> 01:45:54.930 order asking that you delegate authority to me to handle 01:45:54.930 --> 01:45:59.850 certain matters administratively the proposed order 01:45:59.850 --> 01:46:02.960 that we've provided you as a mistake in the second 01:46:02.960 --> 01:46:05.750 paragraph. It it states that if there's novel issues 01:46:05.750 --> 01:46:10.430 or otherwise, um commission directs us that we will 01:46:10.430 --> 01:46:13.140 bring a draft preliminary order, supplemental preliminary 01:46:13.140 --> 01:46:16.350 order to the commission, we would bring a proposed 01:46:16.350 --> 01:46:20.239 order as we typically do on, on those kinds of matters 01:46:20.239 --> 01:46:22.600 that we just need to change that language in this order 01:46:23.380 --> 01:46:27.020 makes sense to me. And we'll streamline this broadly 01:46:27.020 --> 01:46:29.159 Will streamline the process. We've made some decisions 01:46:29.199 --> 01:46:32.630 relate decisions recently. So this will certainly streamline 01:46:32.630 --> 01:46:35.250 at any questions, comments or a motion to approve the 01:46:35.250 --> 01:46:38.770 proposed order. I would move to approve sir 20 seconds 01:46:40.180 --> 01:46:44.050 All in favor say aye, aye, none opposed motion passes 01:46:44.880 --> 01:46:50.000 We don't have anything for 36 or 40 which brings us 01:46:50.000 --> 01:46:52.960 to the end of our open session. So having convened 01:46:52.960 --> 01:46:55.090 in a duly notice, open meeting the Commission will 01:46:55.090 --> 01:46:59.010 now at 11 19 am on february 25th 2020 to hold a 01:46:59.010 --> 01:47:02.600 closed session, pursuant to chapter 551 of the texas 01:47:02.600 --> 01:47:10.260 Government code, Section 551.715512074 And 55 1.0076 01:47:11.479 --> 01:47:14.819 Thanks everybody for being here. We will be back in 01:47:14.819 --> 01:47:15.199 a bit. 01:47:17.479 --> 01:47:17.670 Yeah. 01:47:32.380 --> 01:47:36.949 Session is hereby concluded at 12:31 PM. on February 01:47:36.949 --> 01:47:37.710 25, 2022. 01:47:39.680 --> 01:47:42.619 The commission will resume its public meeting. No action 01:47:42.619 --> 01:47:45.109 will be taken by the commission regarding matters discussed 01:47:45.119 --> 01:47:48.079 in closed session, so having no further business this 01:47:48.079 --> 01:47:49.880 meeting, the Public Utility Commission of texas is 01:47:49.880 --> 01:47:52.399 hereby adjourned. Thank you.