WEBVTT 00:00:04.549 --> 00:00:07.099 Good morning, this meeting of the Public Utility Commission 00:00:07.099 --> 00:00:09.000 of Texas will come to order to consider matters that 00:00:09.000 --> 00:00:11.519 have been duly posted with the secretary of State of 00:00:11.519 --> 00:00:14.419 Texas for October 20th 2022. For the record, my name 00:00:14.419 --> 00:00:17.550 is Peter Lake and with me today are Will McAdams Lori Cobos 00:00:17.559 --> 00:00:21.660 Jimmy Glotfelty and Kathleen Jackson. Mr Journeay would you 00:00:21.660 --> 00:00:26.019 please walk us through today's consent agenda? Good 00:00:26.019 --> 00:00:28.429 morning commissioners, by individual ballot the following 00:00:28.429 --> 00:00:31.589 items were placed on your consent agenda. 2-8 00:00:31.589 --> 00:00:40.039 13 15 16 18 19 20 25. Thank you sir. Do we have 00:00:40.039 --> 00:00:41.640 a motion to approve the items just described by Mr. Journeay? 00:00:43.609 --> 00:00:49.030 All in favor say aye, aye. unopposed. Motion passes. In order 00:00:49.030 --> 00:00:51.090 to streamline our agenda today, we will be taking up 00:00:51.100 --> 00:00:55.179 items 17 immediately before item 14, 00:01:01.780 --> 00:01:05.480 (item:1:Public Comment) At this point we're gonna open public comment. Oral 00:01:05.489 --> 00:01:08.629 comments related to a specific agenda item will be 00:01:08.640 --> 00:01:12.650 heard when that item is taken up. This segment is for 00:01:12.650 --> 00:01:14.959 general comments only when we do get to oral comments 00:01:14.959 --> 00:01:17.859 on specific items, as always, stakeholders should not 00:01:17.859 --> 00:01:20.719 approach the table unless oral arguments have been 00:01:20.719 --> 00:01:23.010 granted or they have been invited by a commissioner. 00:01:24.180 --> 00:01:26.390 As usual, speakers will be limited to three minutes 00:01:26.400 --> 00:01:29.040 each. Mr. Journeay Do we have anyone from the public 00:01:29.040 --> 00:01:31.650 signed up to speak? No sir. No one signed up this morning 00:01:31.659 --> 00:01:35.609 Thank you. At this point. Public comment is closed. 00:01:36.620 --> 00:01:40.540 Mr. Journeay Would you bring us to our first, I believe our 00:01:40.540 --> 00:01:44.670 (item:9:54044) First item is item number nine, docket 54044, petition 00:01:44.670 --> 00:01:47.120 for an order appointing temporary manager for the Marion 00:01:47.120 --> 00:01:51.459 J smith that does business as smith management services. 00:01:51.469 --> 00:01:54.969 Uh Commission staff filed a petition for an order appointing 00:01:54.969 --> 00:02:01.140 a temporary manager. Yeah, we're looking at ventana 00:02:01.140 --> 00:02:02.370 Ranch, 00:02:06.760 --> 00:02:07.340 who is it? 00:02:10.330 --> 00:02:11.740 We get that on the consent agenda. 00:02:15.360 --> 00:02:15.889 Yeah, 00:02:19.620 --> 00:02:26.219 We was considered then we move on to them. Docket 5045 00:02:27.090 --> 00:02:29.449 Okay, 00:02:31.030 --> 00:02:36.719 Alright, item uh 10 docket 54044 to be clear so I can 00:02:36.800 --> 00:02:40.050 say that again for us. Uh Commission staff has filed 00:02:40.050 --> 00:02:43.289 a petition for appointing a temporary temporary appointing 00:02:43.289 --> 00:02:47.030 a temporary manager. Uh We have also noticed the hearing 00:02:47.039 --> 00:02:51.120 um on the temporary manager petition. 00:02:53.969 --> 00:02:56.319 All right, thank you sir. At this point we'll recess 00:02:56.319 --> 00:02:58.750 this meeting of the PUC to hold a separate hearing 00:02:58.750 --> 00:03:02.490 on this item. This meeting of Public Utility Commission 00:03:02.500 --> 00:03:07.150 is now recessed for 00:03:08.710 --> 00:03:13.569 one minute to switch things over. Good. All right now 00:03:13.569 --> 00:03:15.490 this meeting of the public utility commission of Texas 00:03:15.490 --> 00:03:18.419 will come to order from the merits hearing in docket 00:03:18.430 --> 00:03:21.280 54044, which has been duly posted with secretary of 00:03:21.280 --> 00:03:24.300 state of Texas for october 20th 2022. We will now turn 00:03:24.300 --> 00:03:27.270 it over to our commission ALJ administration of this 00:03:27.270 --> 00:03:30.210 hearing. Good morning Commissioners. I called order 00:03:30.210 --> 00:03:33.740 docket number 54044 petition for an order appointing 00:03:33.740 --> 00:03:36.860 a temporary manager for mary and jay smith EBA 00:03:36.860 --> 00:03:39.759 smith management services. This is Katie marks assisting 00:03:39.759 --> 00:03:41.889 the commissioner's this morning. And the purpose of 00:03:41.889 --> 00:03:44.289 this hearing is to determine whether a temporary manager 00:03:44.289 --> 00:03:47.150 should be appointed. We had a pre hearing conference 00:03:47.150 --> 00:03:50.090 yesterday morning at which I admitted three exhibits 00:03:50.639 --> 00:03:57.000 Yes. Is it not close enough? Is that better? Okay, 00:03:57.009 --> 00:03:59.780 Exhibit one, a copy of commission staff's petition 00:03:59.789 --> 00:04:02.500 and all exhibits. Exhibit two, the affidavit of ROS 00:04:02.500 --> 00:04:06.009 Ramirez and all exhibits. And exhibit three, a copy 00:04:06.009 --> 00:04:08.659 of the notice of hearing. At this time we'll take appearances 00:04:08.659 --> 00:04:11.810 of the party's beginning with commission staff. Jenna 00:04:11.810 --> 00:04:13.330 Keller for commission staff 00:04:15.419 --> 00:04:18.860 Glenn Akins, we're Central States water resources. Have 00:04:18.860 --> 00:04:21.509 either of y'all heard anything from the utility or 00:04:21.509 --> 00:04:27.009 any other interested person. We have not. Okay at this 00:04:27.009 --> 00:04:30.660 time. Do you have any opening statements? No, your 00:04:30.660 --> 00:04:38.529 honor. No, your honor any witnesses. No, no any questions 00:04:38.529 --> 00:04:39.269 from the commission. 00:04:41.550 --> 00:04:44.889 Okay any closing statements. No your honor 00:04:46.750 --> 00:04:50.509 Then we are adjourned. Thank you Thank you ma'am. The 00:04:50.519 --> 00:04:53.889 Merits hearing in docket 54044 is hereby adjourned 00:04:53.889 --> 00:04:57.100 at 9:39 am. Thank you. 00:05:00.000 --> 00:05:08.939 We will now reconvene our open meeting 00:05:08.949 --> 00:05:13.620 of the public utility commission at 9:40 am resuming 00:05:13.620 --> 00:05:19.839 with item 10. Docket 54044. Thoughts, comments? 00:05:21.610 --> 00:05:25.759 (item:9:54044 resumes) Based on the information submitted the evidence 00:05:25.759 --> 00:05:28.620 in the record, I would move to grant the petition to 00:05:28.620 --> 00:05:32.290 appoint CSWR-Texas utility operating company 00:05:32.290 --> 00:05:35.250 as temporary manager for Marion J smith, D. B. A smith 00:05:35.250 --> 00:05:39.430 management services. Um I think based on the information 00:05:39.430 --> 00:05:42.319 before us. Um the utility clearly abandoned operations 00:05:42.319 --> 00:05:45.430 for the reasons cited in the petition. Um I would appoint 00:05:45.430 --> 00:05:47.839 CSWR-Texas as temporary manager for the utility 00:05:47.839 --> 00:05:53.439 beginning on october 29th 2022. After the temporary 00:05:53.439 --> 00:05:56.600 manager term for intermediary solutions expires on 00:05:56.600 --> 00:06:01.019 october 28th 2022 until the commission orders. Otherwise 00:06:01.029 --> 00:06:04.540 um, I would move that we set the temporary manager 00:06:04.540 --> 00:06:09.279 compensation for CSWR-Texas at $12 per water connection 00:06:09.279 --> 00:06:12.279 per month. As recommended by commission staff waive 00:06:12.279 --> 00:06:14.779 the requirement regarding contemporary manager's duty 00:06:14.779 --> 00:06:17.120 to post financial insurance with the commission is 00:06:17.120 --> 00:06:19.899 recommended by commission staff and direct commission 00:06:19.899 --> 00:06:22.839 advising to draft an order consistent um, with this 00:06:22.839 --> 00:06:23.430 direction. 00:06:26.379 --> 00:06:29.920 come close to a motion. Mr chairman, I agree with everything 00:06:29.920 --> 00:06:33.170 she said. Excellent. You have a 2nd? I would 2nd. We've got 00:06:33.170 --> 00:06:37.290 a motion and a second. All in favor say, aye, aye, none opposed. 00:06:37.290 --> 00:06:42.360 the motion passes. Well done. I don't have anything 00:06:42.360 --> 00:06:43.500 on the next few items. 00:06:51.519 --> 00:06:55.319 (item:10:52405) I have a proposal for adoption from commission staff. 00:06:58.500 --> 00:07:04.170 What's the number 52405, item 10. All right, lay 00:07:04.170 --> 00:07:07.519 that out for us. Item 10 is project 52405 review 00:07:07.519 --> 00:07:10.069 certain water customer protection rules. Commission 00:07:10.069 --> 00:07:12.629 staff has filed a memo in a proposed order to adopt 00:07:12.629 --> 00:07:16.189 new rules 24173 and 24364. 00:07:18.389 --> 00:07:24.990 Mr smeltzer, Joins. Comments, questions? It seems consistent 00:07:24.990 --> 00:07:28.540 with what we do in electric practices and I agree with 00:07:28.550 --> 00:07:32.439 the direction of the rulemaking. I do as well. It complies 00:07:32.439 --> 00:07:36.110 with Senate Bill three and it's an important um uh 00:07:36.120 --> 00:07:39.170 role that we need to get in place to protect water 00:07:39.170 --> 00:07:43.209 customers during periods of emergency. I agree 00:07:45.379 --> 00:07:49.040 I would move to approve the proposed rule second. We've 00:07:49.050 --> 00:07:52.689 got a motion in a second in favor say, aye, none opposed 00:07:52.689 --> 00:07:59.009 motion passes. (item:17:53288) So I believe that takes us to item 17, Docket 00:07:59.009 --> 00:08:03.310 at 53288, application of ETT to amend the CCN for 00:08:03.310 --> 00:08:07.000 the Dell Sole to equinox transmission line in Stark 00:08:07.000 --> 00:08:10.790 County. E. T. T. Filed an appeal of order number seven 00:08:10.800 --> 00:08:14.790 uh Commissioner McAdams has a memo. Uh 00:08:16.379 --> 00:08:21.500 Certainly sir. Commissioners, I wanna approach 00:08:21.500 --> 00:08:26.170 this as as softly as I can. Uh the memo uh ultimately 00:08:26.170 --> 00:08:30.600 the intent of the memo is to create a pathway uh, to 00:08:30.600 --> 00:08:36.919 harmonize the legislative intent and um and requirements 00:08:36.929 --> 00:08:41.529 of both the parks and wildlife code as well as the 00:08:41.539 --> 00:08:44.620 utilities code, which we ultimately are responsible 00:08:44.620 --> 00:08:49.539 for. At the end of the day, this has been 00:08:49.539 --> 00:08:53.200 a reoccurring issue uh since we have been re comprised 00:08:53.210 --> 00:09:00.450 as a commission. Um We, uh what I'm asking for is within 00:09:00.450 --> 00:09:03.399 the memo is for us to capture a longstanding best practice 00:09:03.409 --> 00:09:05.659 that has been utilized by the commission as a part 00:09:05.659 --> 00:09:10.500 of our ordering paragraphs um and to capture that in 00:09:10.509 --> 00:09:14.929 what could possibly constitute a rule. Uh I will clarify 00:09:14.929 --> 00:09:18.370 that I am by no means married to the language of the 00:09:18.379 --> 00:09:22.649 template rule which as uh followed my memo but I'm 00:09:22.649 --> 00:09:25.919 just trying to think of creative ways to provide staffs 00:09:25.919 --> 00:09:29.309 from both agencies a reference point on how we could 00:09:29.309 --> 00:09:33.169 better communicate with each other and uh and comply 00:09:33.169 --> 00:09:37.789 with the spirit of the statute. Um I believe this policy 00:09:37.789 --> 00:09:40.549 is the best way to balance giving Texas parks and wildlife 00:09:40.559 --> 00:09:44.799 voice in CCN cases which they statutorily have while 00:09:44.799 --> 00:09:47.639 maintaining the statutory requirements and obligations 00:09:47.649 --> 00:09:53.039 of this commission uh to determine CCNs. We welcome and 00:09:53.049 --> 00:09:56.659 and I certainly welcome input from parks and Wildlife 00:09:56.669 --> 00:10:00.279 on C. C. N. Cases to the extent that the department 00:10:00.279 --> 00:10:03.659 considers a specific recommendation applicable and 00:10:03.659 --> 00:10:07.500 important in a particular proceeding, I would invite 00:10:07.509 --> 00:10:11.350 them to intervene and present evidence on that specific 00:10:11.360 --> 00:10:15.850 uh on that specific line and specific recommendations 00:10:15.860 --> 00:10:19.879 as per the route. However, if parks and wildlife does 00:10:19.879 --> 00:10:23.549 not provide sufficient evidence um related to best 00:10:23.549 --> 00:10:26.909 management practices or intervene in the matter then 00:10:26.909 --> 00:10:30.649 the party should neither in my view, engage nor engage 00:10:30.649 --> 00:10:34.080 in discovery related to them nor otherwise litigate 00:10:34.090 --> 00:10:37.850 these issues. As the commission pointed out, that could 00:10:37.850 --> 00:10:41.649 result in unintended delays in reliability projects 00:10:41.649 --> 00:10:44.710 or any projects for which the commission has the ultimate 00:10:44.710 --> 00:10:48.379 burden of responsibility. The commission's legal obligation 00:10:48.389 --> 00:10:52.450 under the Parks and Wildlife Code are clear. Um Under 00:10:52.450 --> 00:10:56.909 parks and Wildlife code section 12.0011 subsection 00:10:56.909 --> 00:10:59.919 C the commission is statutorily required to respond 00:10:59.919 --> 00:11:03.419 in writing to each recommendation or comment made by 00:11:03.419 --> 00:11:06.389 the Texas Parks and wildlife. 00:11:06.389 --> 00:11:09.629 Department. However, the commission is not obligated 00:11:09.629 --> 00:11:11.889 under the statute to adopt any of parks and wildlife's 00:11:11.889 --> 00:11:14.200 recommendations or even defer to them. So I want to 00:11:14.200 --> 00:11:17.549 establish that clearing the commission is simply required 00:11:17.559 --> 00:11:21.919 to respond. And um that's ultimate. The ultimate direction 00:11:21.929 --> 00:11:25.230 of a potential rulemaking is give us a reference point 00:11:25.240 --> 00:11:29.399 that enshrines best practices that our staff can refer 00:11:29.399 --> 00:11:33.009 to when receiving high level recommendations and advice 00:11:33.019 --> 00:11:36.509 from the experts on wildlife management at the Texas 00:11:36.509 --> 00:11:41.240 Parks and Wildlife Department. Um on a high level, 00:11:41.250 --> 00:11:45.899 and this is I welcome discussion and feedback. I believe 00:11:45.899 --> 00:11:48.860 we should grant ETT's appeal on order number seven 00:11:48.870 --> 00:11:53.009 and deny staff's motion to compel. I would further 00:11:53.019 --> 00:11:57.399 move uh and urge moving to adopt the proposed actions 00:11:57.399 --> 00:12:00.649 of my memo, which give clear policy guidance for parties 00:12:00.659 --> 00:12:03.549 And finally I would direct staff to add this rulemaking 00:12:03.559 --> 00:12:07.289 to their already very full calendar but with no sense 00:12:07.289 --> 00:12:10.090 of urgency but that they can work on as the calendar 00:12:10.090 --> 00:12:14.440 permits to grant us and and I would further grant them 00:12:14.440 --> 00:12:17.950 the ability to make any stylistic or editorial or substantive 00:12:17.950 --> 00:12:23.120 edits. Again, my uh attachment to the memo was simply 00:12:23.120 --> 00:12:26.590 a suggestion and I am not married or wedded to any 00:12:26.590 --> 00:12:30.960 of those. Um But they may make any changes as they 00:12:30.960 --> 00:12:34.990 say fit and with that I welcome any feedback. Mr Chairman 00:12:35.000 --> 00:12:37.409 members, Thank you for letting that out. Well, well 00:12:37.409 --> 00:12:42.159 said on all points, I think improving clarity is always 00:12:42.159 --> 00:12:45.919 a good thing, especially for our sister agency and 00:12:45.919 --> 00:12:49.529 and for our own staff who I know works hard to decipher 00:12:49.529 --> 00:12:53.789 what's set up here on the dais, which is a challenge 00:12:53.789 --> 00:12:58.500 and sometimes in mumbles, but indeed, so enhanced clarity 00:12:58.500 --> 00:13:00.490 is always a good thing. Thank you. Thank you for laying 00:13:00.490 --> 00:13:05.559 that out. Thoughts, comments? Yeah, I would uh I would 00:13:05.559 --> 00:13:10.250 agree with Commissioner McAdams on this. The uh the 00:13:10.259 --> 00:13:16.320 process for advisement um and the ability for advisors 00:13:16.320 --> 00:13:19.179 to automatically put something in our rule that has 00:13:19.179 --> 00:13:22.250 carries the weight of a contested case um is problematic 00:13:22.250 --> 00:13:28.190 for me. Um These are some of the recommendations by 00:13:28.190 --> 00:13:32.139 parks and wildlife could be very expensive and I will 00:13:32.139 --> 00:13:37.149 suggest that what's happened is a little bit of uh 00:13:37.159 --> 00:13:43.149 environmental um work in California has become a multimillion 00:13:43.149 --> 00:13:47.289 dollar compliance effort for transmission lines, which 00:13:47.289 --> 00:13:50.340 we don't want. So environmental monitors, dozens and 00:13:50.340 --> 00:13:53.049 dozens and dozens of environmental monitors, looking 00:13:53.049 --> 00:13:56.720 after a a third party company building a transmission 00:13:56.720 --> 00:13:58.559 line to make sure that they are following the rules 00:13:58.559 --> 00:14:02.159 that a state agency set that's that's gets too convoluted 00:14:02.159 --> 00:14:04.559 for me if we want to get these in a rule and 00:14:04.559 --> 00:14:06.840 have them report back to us if there are problems and 00:14:06.840 --> 00:14:10.240 that's our responsibility, but just getting a having 00:14:10.250 --> 00:14:14.940 parks and wildlife say that these are are part of our 00:14:14.940 --> 00:14:18.029 rules and ought to be followed. Uh We take it under 00:14:18.029 --> 00:14:22.919 advisement. Uh these these projects are um are hard 00:14:22.919 --> 00:14:25.399 enough to get built. Uh they're expensive enough to 00:14:25.399 --> 00:14:31.039 get built and I believe that if they have a um a 00:14:31.039 --> 00:14:33.940 statutory obligation to protect something that they 00:14:33.940 --> 00:14:37.240 ought to be a party to the case, if not, um then 00:14:37.240 --> 00:14:40.570 we take all of their comments under advisement. We 00:14:40.570 --> 00:14:44.019 put in what we need to and we don't where we where 00:14:44.019 --> 00:14:46.669 we think that's inappropriate or the evidence doesn't 00:14:46.669 --> 00:14:49.700 support it. So I agree with Commissioner McAdams and 00:14:49.710 --> 00:14:53.960 I think we should move forward. I say that um the rule 00:14:53.960 --> 00:14:56.860 making piece of it, you know, I'm open to that as well 00:14:56.870 --> 00:15:00.049 Um I don't know if there's a a a pre step where 00:15:00.049 --> 00:15:03.490 we go and further engage parks and wildlife on this 00:15:03.500 --> 00:15:07.429 Um and and really maybe get a memorandum of understanding 00:15:07.429 --> 00:15:10.600 or something like that. Um Is there a process without 00:15:10.610 --> 00:15:12.830 opening a rulemaking or that might be interim to an 00:15:12.830 --> 00:15:16.500 open opening a rulemaking that we might consider. I 00:15:17.399 --> 00:15:24.230 thank you very much. Commissioners um by way of your 00:15:24.230 --> 00:15:26.649 suggestion that we continue dialogue with parks and 00:15:26.649 --> 00:15:29.529 Wildlife. Um We do have a meeting set up with them 00:15:29.529 --> 00:15:33.200 next week. They're they're legal division um is going 00:15:33.200 --> 00:15:37.215 to meet with ours um and and talk about some of these 00:15:37.215 --> 00:15:41.235 specific process issues in this case. Um So we'll continue 00:15:41.235 --> 00:15:44.404 working on that. We certainly appreciate the guidance 00:15:44.404 --> 00:15:47.884 and clarity that was offered by Commissioner McAdams 00:15:47.884 --> 00:15:51.695 memo. And we will uh, we'll put that on the rulemaking 00:15:51.695 --> 00:15:55.894 calendar for consideration and we'll share with parks 00:15:55.894 --> 00:15:59.600 and wildlife for their input as well, appreciate those 00:15:59.600 --> 00:16:03.799 efforts. Thank you. I agree on all points. I think 00:16:03.809 --> 00:16:07.299 um from my perspective, if you know, it's, it's not 00:16:07.299 --> 00:16:13.309 really staff's burden to um build the case to ensure 00:16:13.309 --> 00:16:15.580 that there's a cost benefit analysis on Texas, parks 00:16:15.580 --> 00:16:18.210 and wildlife recommendation each and every one of them 00:16:18.220 --> 00:16:20.720 I think um you know, there might have been some confusion 00:16:20.720 --> 00:16:23.440 from the dais in the past, but I think it's important 00:16:23.440 --> 00:16:25.279 to give clear direction. 00:16:33.690 --> 00:16:35.950 This meeting of the public utility commission of Texas 00:16:35.960 --> 00:16:42.230 is hereby reconvened time is 10:10 a.m. We have fully 00:16:42.230 --> 00:16:45.559 functioning microphones and lovely mood lighting, 00:16:47.389 --> 00:16:49.899 energy efficient, energy efficient. 00:16:52.129 --> 00:16:54.000 Where were we? 00:16:55.669 --> 00:17:01.019 I think you're going to ask for a motion. I was in 00:17:01.019 --> 00:17:03.259 the middle of some statements as I was saying, Stephen 00:17:04.549 --> 00:17:08.339 I thought you were gonna make, let's just remind folks 00:17:08.339 --> 00:17:13.940 I think we're on docket number 53288. Um, well I'll 00:17:13.950 --> 00:17:16.769 was really saying, when are microphones went off and 00:17:16.769 --> 00:17:20.130 the lights were really bright on us? Was that I agreed 00:17:20.130 --> 00:17:22.720 with commissioner McAdams and and the points made by 00:17:22.730 --> 00:17:25.769 um my fellow commissioners and in that I think that 00:17:25.769 --> 00:17:27.880 there's just been some confusion with what to do with 00:17:27.880 --> 00:17:30.819 Texas parks and wildlife and and I think we've given 00:17:30.819 --> 00:17:34.109 some some of their comments and side agreements. I 00:17:34.109 --> 00:17:37.069 think we've given clear direction to staff in terms 00:17:37.069 --> 00:17:39.569 of not entering into side agreements with Texas parks 00:17:39.569 --> 00:17:41.890 and wildlife and prior cases and I think that direction 00:17:41.890 --> 00:17:45.289 has been clear. Um And I think there was some confusion 00:17:45.289 --> 00:17:47.950 based on past open meeting discussion that led to this 00:17:47.950 --> 00:17:52.089 motion or this R. F. I. And ultimate motion to compel 00:17:52.089 --> 00:17:54.509 information. But ultimately I think what we've made 00:17:54.509 --> 00:17:59.009 clear here today is that um you know we we welcome 00:17:59.009 --> 00:18:01.519 the Texas parks and wildlife to intervene in our cases 00:18:01.519 --> 00:18:03.640 and put up a case on their best management practices 00:18:03.640 --> 00:18:07.049 They're not an intervener in this case. Um Staff took 00:18:07.049 --> 00:18:10.250 the responsibility of asking for a cost benefit analysis 00:18:10.250 --> 00:18:12.450 and all the recommendations, that's just not staff's 00:18:12.450 --> 00:18:18.160 job. Um that that um you know we we have been um 00:18:18.170 --> 00:18:22.519 complying with the departments um with our responsibilities 00:18:22.519 --> 00:18:24.670 under the Texas, parks and wildlife code through our 00:18:24.670 --> 00:18:27.509 standard ordering paragraphs and have recognized those 00:18:27.509 --> 00:18:29.819 best management practices in the standard ordering 00:18:29.819 --> 00:18:31.789 paragraphs as you highlighted Commissioner McAdams 00:18:31.789 --> 00:18:36.589 and that those will be captured in the rule. And so 00:18:36.599 --> 00:18:39.430 um I think just having clear direction to staff in 00:18:39.430 --> 00:18:42.380 terms of the side agreements and our expectations on 00:18:42.519 --> 00:18:46.119 what to do with with this uh departments comments and 00:18:46.130 --> 00:18:48.839 recommendations in terms of not expecting cost benefit 00:18:48.839 --> 00:18:52.029 analysis on each recommendation going forward so that 00:18:52.029 --> 00:18:54.359 we can continue to process these cases in an efficient 00:18:54.359 --> 00:18:57.369 manner is important. And then the long term step that 00:18:57.369 --> 00:18:59.589 commissioner McAdams highlight is maybe having a rule 00:18:59.589 --> 00:19:03.839 out there so that we capture those best practices in 00:19:03.839 --> 00:19:06.940 a role in conjunction with our standard ordering language 00:19:07.319 --> 00:19:10.160 and um welcome the department if they feel strongly 00:19:10.160 --> 00:19:12.410 about an issue to intervene in our case and put up 00:19:12.410 --> 00:19:12.880 a case 00:19:14.670 --> 00:19:15.240 well put, 00:19:16.759 --> 00:19:19.640 you know, one other thing that I would say is it's 00:19:19.650 --> 00:19:22.210 my experience that when we're dealing with routing 00:19:22.210 --> 00:19:30.640 consultants, um power engineers um HDR you know, they 00:19:30.650 --> 00:19:33.700 are experts in these as well in these areas, they take 00:19:33.710 --> 00:19:36.960 these into consideration at the earliest time um and 00:19:36.960 --> 00:19:39.200 they as part of the environmental assessment, they 00:19:39.210 --> 00:19:43.930 are trying to do this as the basic component of their 00:19:43.930 --> 00:19:49.220 task and they are very good at it. We see those folks 00:19:49.220 --> 00:19:52.210 are the leaders of the field and on most of these transmission 00:19:52.210 --> 00:19:54.730 lines there are a handful of routing consultants that 00:19:54.740 --> 00:19:57.359 that really take those to heart and do that at the 00:19:57.369 --> 00:19:58.930 front end of the process. 00:20:00.960 --> 00:20:05.490 Very good point. The uh I would just say that clarification 00:20:05.490 --> 00:20:08.299 is always good and I agree with my fellow commissioners 00:20:08.299 --> 00:20:12.660 and um particularly the suggestion you made about the 00:20:12.670 --> 00:20:15.759 pre step process and meeting with Texas, parks and 00:20:15.759 --> 00:20:18.089 Wildlife, which of course staff had already taken the 00:20:18.089 --> 00:20:22.180 initiative to do so uh you know, one of the successes 00:20:22.180 --> 00:20:25.349 I think that we've had in Texas and what has made us 00:20:25.359 --> 00:20:28.400 um you know, it successful as we've been in the past 00:20:28.420 --> 00:20:31.750 has been that we value both environmental stewardship 00:20:31.750 --> 00:20:33.890 as well as economic development and that, you know 00:20:33.890 --> 00:20:36.319 that is absolutely the public's expectation that we 00:20:36.319 --> 00:20:39.609 have both. And so clarification is good. Meeting with 00:20:39.609 --> 00:20:41.799 Texas, parks and wildlife is good so we can move forward 00:20:41.799 --> 00:20:45.819 and continue to do that. Absolutely. Alright, we have 00:20:45.819 --> 00:20:46.289 a motion. 00:20:48.410 --> 00:20:51.069 So mr chairman, I would move to grant E. T. T. S 00:20:51.069 --> 00:20:54.099 appeal of order number seven and deny staff's motion 00:20:54.099 --> 00:20:57.049 to compel I would further move to adopt the proposed 00:20:57.049 --> 00:20:59.740 actions in my memo, which give clear policy guidance 00:20:59.740 --> 00:21:02.670 for parties. And finally, I would direct staff to add 00:21:02.670 --> 00:21:07.319 this rulemaking to uh it's calendar as it sees convenient 00:21:07.329 --> 00:21:11.089 and grant the ability to make stylistic editorial and 00:21:11.089 --> 00:21:14.779 substantive edits it sees fit in the eventual process 00:21:14.779 --> 00:21:18.509 of drafting a proposal for publication. We got a motion 00:21:18.509 --> 00:21:19.150 Do we have a second 00:21:20.829 --> 00:21:24.630 second? I was just, can I can we add that? We have 00:21:24.640 --> 00:21:28.160 staff come back to us when they have a discussion with 00:21:28.160 --> 00:21:31.130 parks and wildlife and just brief us on on that after 00:21:31.130 --> 00:21:33.589 they have their next meeting. Yeah. Yes, I don't think 00:21:33.589 --> 00:21:35.819 we need to include that emotion, but staff will certainly 00:21:35.819 --> 00:21:38.980 take that second. Thank you got a motion in a second 00:21:38.980 --> 00:21:43.440 All in favor say aye, none opposed motion passes. Next 00:21:43.440 --> 00:21:49.069 item please. (item:14:52241) We're back to item 14, Docket 52241 00:21:49.250 --> 00:21:52.210 the application of energy tremendous CCN for the mill 00:21:52.210 --> 00:21:56.089 been transmission project in Montgomery county. Um 00:21:56.160 --> 00:21:59.390 this one has a history. We had a proposal for decision 00:21:59.400 --> 00:22:03.210 filed on May 17 uh in july the commission remanded 00:22:03.210 --> 00:22:06.240 this matter too. So it allows energy to energy to amend 00:22:06.240 --> 00:22:09.490 its application for additional routes and to give additional 00:22:09.490 --> 00:22:12.890 notice to landowners. I had filed a memo with proposed 00:22:12.890 --> 00:22:16.730 changes to the PFD after remand a settlement was reached 00:22:16.730 --> 00:22:19.819 and a proposed order on remand was filed on september 00:22:19.819 --> 00:22:25.240 21st 2022. Commissioner Glotfelty has a memo. Commission 00:22:25.250 --> 00:22:28.410 Glotfelty does indeed have a memo. It is not black 00:22:29.509 --> 00:22:35.470 It's a very, very important memo. Thank you. Um the 00:22:35.480 --> 00:22:37.750 uh there are two issues here. One of them is obviously 00:22:37.750 --> 00:22:40.740 the right decision that we need to make. Um the other 00:22:40.750 --> 00:22:44.900 is um a number of technical uh changes, grammatical 00:22:44.900 --> 00:22:48.960 issues associated with findings of facts um and other 00:22:48.970 --> 00:22:56.059 issues within the, within the proposed order. Um I 00:22:56.069 --> 00:22:59.970 believe it's self explanatory in the memo. Um I believe 00:22:59.970 --> 00:23:03.670 that we should grant good cause for virtual public 00:23:03.670 --> 00:23:06.289 meetings as we've done in the past as a result of covid 00:23:06.299 --> 00:23:08.779 Um I don't want to go into each and every one of 00:23:08.779 --> 00:23:12.619 these as they've been filed but um I do believe that 00:23:12.630 --> 00:23:21.150 um that we need to um fix these data points, fix these 00:23:21.160 --> 00:23:26.349 um technical changes um regardless of route we what 00:23:26.359 --> 00:23:31.480 route we choose and um so my memo is is clearly here 00:23:31.480 --> 00:23:36.019 to affect to fix the technical components. Um So after 00:23:36.019 --> 00:23:42.910 that, um I want to talk about the route, which um I 00:23:42.920 --> 00:23:46.019 struggle with, I struggle with the agreed upon route 00:23:46.029 --> 00:23:51.380 Um I love agreed upon routes, but um I think 12 or 00:23:51.380 --> 00:23:56.750 $13 million more uh for a very short line is a is 00:23:56.750 --> 00:23:59.980 a challenge for me to get over. Um I think what I 00:23:59.980 --> 00:24:04.619 have found is route nine M um seems to be the shortest 00:24:04.630 --> 00:24:08.789 the the parallels the most right of way um disruptive 00:24:08.799 --> 00:24:13.849 to the inhabitants, correct? Uh and I would recommend 00:24:13.859 --> 00:24:20.210 uh I am supportive of um Route nine M um again, this 00:24:20.210 --> 00:24:24.240 is a balancing act for for interveners and Commissioners 00:24:24.430 --> 00:24:28.000 uh to understand the routing concerns and how they 00:24:28.000 --> 00:24:32.240 affect, but what we can't do is allow everybody who 00:24:32.240 --> 00:24:35.779 intervenes to say uh we'll take the most expensive 00:24:35.779 --> 00:24:37.740 route or we want the route over there that doesn't 00:24:37.740 --> 00:24:40.630 affect us. Um there are a whole host of things that 00:24:40.630 --> 00:24:44.400 can happen, but we have to balance those. And to me 00:24:44.400 --> 00:24:48.819 I think the lower cost um route is nine M is the 00:24:48.829 --> 00:24:53.589 is the best possible route and also be mindful of those 00:24:53.589 --> 00:24:56.970 who may be impacted who don't happen to be interveners 00:24:58.079 --> 00:25:02.150 correct. Thank you for laying that out. Box comments 00:25:04.359 --> 00:25:07.029 I agree with Commissioner Glotfelty I think we're in 00:25:07.029 --> 00:25:09.140 a position as commissioners to weigh all the factors 00:25:09.140 --> 00:25:11.079 and considerations and appear in the Commissioner's 00:25:11.079 --> 00:25:15.920 rules. The commission's rules as we look at um, settlement 00:25:15.920 --> 00:25:18.150 agreements. We want to encourage settlements, right 00:25:18.160 --> 00:25:22.150 and and settled routes, but we have to evaluate the 00:25:22.160 --> 00:25:26.279 settlement, the degree to routes based on the factors 00:25:26.279 --> 00:25:29.109 that are in pira and the commission rules and based 00:25:29.109 --> 00:25:32.809 on those factors, I believe route nine M is the best 00:25:32.809 --> 00:25:35.410 route to choose from both the cost perspective and 00:25:35.410 --> 00:25:39.079 and it's less intrusive as Commissioner Glotfelty and 00:25:39.079 --> 00:25:41.619 Commissioner McAdams noted on other inhabitants um 00:25:41.619 --> 00:25:44.660 and shorter, there's a lot more positive to route nine 00:25:44.660 --> 00:25:50.240 M than route number One and I believe even commission 00:25:50.240 --> 00:25:54.450 staff is uh sort of supportive of that, I think energy 00:25:54.450 --> 00:25:57.609 and staff both were unopposed to route number one, 00:25:57.619 --> 00:26:02.059 but um nine M was sort of a a new route that 00:26:02.059 --> 00:26:04.059 was brought up towards the end of the case, that I 00:26:04.059 --> 00:26:05.529 think merits are approved. 00:26:07.160 --> 00:26:10.779 Mr Chairman, I I agree with with all the points raised 00:26:10.779 --> 00:26:15.549 by my colleagues, um directly affecting 117 habitable 00:26:15.549 --> 00:26:18.549 structure structures which are 39 fewer than route 00:26:18.549 --> 00:26:22.099 one was an important factor for me. Um high growth 00:26:22.099 --> 00:26:26.789 area, a lot of development going on. Uh this clearly 00:26:26.789 --> 00:26:31.920 needs to move forward and um I believe this commission 00:26:31.920 --> 00:26:35.539 and I would encourage settlements where practicable 00:26:35.549 --> 00:26:41.029 Um but this was a, uh late developing alternative route 00:26:41.039 --> 00:26:44.039 which offers us the opportunity to satisfy many of 00:26:44.039 --> 00:26:47.250 our requirements under the statute to consider in a 00:26:47.259 --> 00:26:52.859 CCN Yeah, good points there. Uh We certainly want to 00:26:52.859 --> 00:26:57.430 encourage settlements where possible but not at the 00:26:57.440 --> 00:27:00.720 additional expense of millions and millions of dollars 00:27:00.720 --> 00:27:05.279 to our ratepayers and not at the expense of substantially 00:27:05.279 --> 00:27:09.410 more capital structures being impacted. Uh settlement 00:27:09.410 --> 00:27:11.420 is not a carte blanche. Um 00:27:13.599 --> 00:27:15.690 any other thoughts, comments or motion 00:27:17.490 --> 00:27:20.970 I I moved that the commission instruct commission advising 00:27:20.970 --> 00:27:23.789 to prepare an order that combines the PFD in the SOAH 00:27:23.799 --> 00:27:26.410 proposed order incorporates the commission counsel 00:27:26.410 --> 00:27:31.779 memo filed in july 11th 2022 aligns with the commission's 00:27:31.779 --> 00:27:34.009 routing decision. In addition, I recommend that the 00:27:34.009 --> 00:27:38.809 final incorporate the proposed changes. As noted in 00:27:39.240 --> 00:27:44.339 my memo october 1920 22 we've got a motion a second 00:27:44.339 --> 00:27:48.049 all in favor say aye not opposed motion passes. Thank 00:27:48.049 --> 00:27:52.299 you. Commissioner Glotfelty next item please. Mr Journeay 00:27:52.910 --> 00:27:56.480 Item 15 is docket 52929. It's a notice 00:27:56.480 --> 00:28:01.279 of violation by OCI Alamo 1, LLC for violations 00:28:01.279 --> 00:28:04.150 concerning winter weather readiness reporting requirements 00:28:04.359 --> 00:28:07.059 A proposed order was filed on september 30th and the 00:28:07.059 --> 00:28:09.859 correction memo filed on october 7th in response to 00:28:09.859 --> 00:28:15.559 those corrections, didn't we consent this? Yes sir 00:28:15.559 --> 00:28:19.039 I'm sorry I did not. Do you wanna borrow my glasses 00:28:23.000 --> 00:28:25.430 Put magic lenses in there so you can see the world 00:28:25.430 --> 00:28:34.140 properly sir. It's that price tag sticker huh? So then 00:28:34.140 --> 00:28:39.559 I believe that gets us to item 21 subject to correction 00:28:39.569 --> 00:28:45.700 again. (item:21:51603) Item 21 is project 51603 review, distributed 00:28:45.710 --> 00:28:48.910 Energy resources Commission staff has filed a memo 00:28:48.910 --> 00:28:53.059 with draft questions for a proposed ruling. Thank you 00:28:53.059 --> 00:28:56.519 sir. Uh you know, we obviously have a staff memo, I 00:28:56.529 --> 00:28:59.559 know this is an issue Mr McAdams and mr Glotfelty have 00:28:59.559 --> 00:29:03.329 been working hard on suspect. They have comments. Yes 00:29:03.339 --> 00:29:08.220 Mr Chairman, thank you for recognizing us. Um high 00:29:08.220 --> 00:29:12.269 level, I think I'd like to cover um what has been done 00:29:12.279 --> 00:29:15.150 uh key points of what we've received feedback that 00:29:15.150 --> 00:29:19.410 we've received over the last uh week or so since our 00:29:19.410 --> 00:29:24.390 last open meeting. Um The directions to staff and archive 00:29:24.390 --> 00:29:28.269 expected for today were for staff to complete um a 00:29:28.279 --> 00:29:32.009 potentially uh complete a discussion draft for rulemaking 00:29:32.009 --> 00:29:36.769 by december 15th, um and ERCOT potentially to start 00:29:36.779 --> 00:29:40.849 a stakeholder process to clarify, ERCOT Protocol 3.86 00:29:40.859 --> 00:29:44.670 High level, that's that's what we're discussing here 00:29:44.680 --> 00:29:49.910 Um Staff filed a memo as mentioned under 51603. Uh 00:29:49.920 --> 00:29:53.930 They proposed breaking the project into two phases 00:29:53.940 --> 00:30:00.779 um First uh embracing and accomplishing technical requirements 00:30:00.789 --> 00:30:03.789 and interconnection processes within the discussion 00:30:03.789 --> 00:30:07.140 draft to be completed in mid november uh with questions 00:30:07.140 --> 00:30:12.529 for comments and then the second track uh to engage 00:30:12.539 --> 00:30:15.980 on cost recovery for service, uh requesting responses 00:30:15.980 --> 00:30:19.069 to questions by november 17th and aiming to complete 00:30:19.069 --> 00:30:23.339 the discussion draft by december 15th, which certainly 00:30:23.349 --> 00:30:28.470 complies with the intent of our joint memo. The uh 00:30:28.480 --> 00:30:32.099 the second issue to be addressed is the ERCOT Protocol 00:30:32.109 --> 00:30:37.930 of 3.8.6 um which asked the question uh the high level 00:30:37.930 --> 00:30:40.539 question of does ERCOT require a dedicated feeder to 00:30:40.539 --> 00:30:47.809 meet the requirements of 3.8.6. And the reason uh commissioners 00:30:47.809 --> 00:30:50.799 this came up is this was flagged as an issue for us 00:30:50.809 --> 00:30:55.700 during last fall's workshops um when Oncore and other 00:30:55.700 --> 00:31:00.470 TDUs briefed the commission on how they conduct emergency 00:31:00.470 --> 00:31:05.109 planning and um what constraints they face when they 00:31:05.119 --> 00:31:09.220 organize an emergency plan. For Load shed purposes 00:31:09.230 --> 00:31:13.089 or as the system enters emergency conditions and one 00:31:13.089 --> 00:31:19.259 of the issues raised was if a resource that is participating 00:31:19.259 --> 00:31:23.579 in Ancillary services Is interconnected onto the system 00:31:23.589 --> 00:31:27.049 and it's especially if it's interconnected at the distribution 00:31:27.049 --> 00:31:31.950 level. Uh certain utilities viewed that under 3.8.6 00:31:31.960 --> 00:31:36.109 uh that feeder, that circuit that they were interconnected 00:31:36.119 --> 00:31:39.589 at could not be rotated as a part of a load shed 00:31:39.589 --> 00:31:47.380 plan. And so in order to clarify that uh that planning 00:31:47.380 --> 00:31:51.269 guide, uh we have been engaged with market to try to 00:31:51.269 --> 00:31:56.519 resolve the ambiguity of that protocol and to give 00:31:56.519 --> 00:32:01.509 them the flexibility to satisfy their operational requirements 00:32:01.519 --> 00:32:06.130 and ensure reliability while also giving clarity to 00:32:06.130 --> 00:32:09.839 the transmission and distribution service providers 00:32:10.049 --> 00:32:14.170 so that they can account for what circuits can be rotated 00:32:14.180 --> 00:32:16.500 and under what conditions as a part of their emergency 00:32:16.500 --> 00:32:19.160 planning processes and that was the driving force. 00:32:19.170 --> 00:32:22.789 Um as you have alluded to Commissioner Jackson, we 00:32:22.789 --> 00:32:26.079 need clarity, especially in a time when the energy 00:32:26.079 --> 00:32:31.230 transition is uh certainly underway more systems are 00:32:31.230 --> 00:32:35.880 electrifying and uh our primary goal is to ensure reliability 00:32:36.529 --> 00:32:40.730 So in answer to the question, ERCOT filed comments 00:32:40.740 --> 00:32:44.500 under the docket and basically answered uh two does 00:32:44.500 --> 00:32:47.710 ERCOT require dedicated feeder to meet 3.8 point six 00:32:47.720 --> 00:32:51.720 they believe the answer is no um but resources cannot 00:32:51.720 --> 00:32:55.950 be subject to load shed. Uh so in order to harmonize 00:32:55.950 --> 00:32:59.460 this, TDSPs may be limited on designating circuits 00:32:59.470 --> 00:33:02.990 as non Load shed and therefore would require dedicated 00:33:02.990 --> 00:33:06.730 feeders so that they can adequately rotate outages 00:33:06.740 --> 00:33:09.779 Ultimately, ERCOT does not want resources providing 00:33:09.779 --> 00:33:14.970 Ancillary services um if uh during an emergency they 00:33:14.970 --> 00:33:17.299 would be at risk of being disconnected since it could 00:33:17.299 --> 00:33:19.849 pose a reliability issue, those megawatts would be 00:33:19.849 --> 00:33:24.250 trapped um as a part of the load shed operation and 00:33:24.250 --> 00:33:28.339 could not serve a system benefit. Now, ERCOT has discussed 00:33:28.339 --> 00:33:32.319 internally and they have deemed that resources on low 00:33:32.319 --> 00:33:36.380 shed circuits can provide certain Ancillary services 00:33:36.380 --> 00:33:41.710 and that's by nature of their operating plan, um particularly 00:33:41.720 --> 00:33:46.089 the Nonspin Ancillary service and regulation down while 00:33:46.099 --> 00:33:49.230 still maintaining reliability, which is their overarching 00:33:49.230 --> 00:33:54.009 mission and the principle behind the Nonspin is that 00:33:54.019 --> 00:33:59.180 Nonspin is a measure that ERCOT will use to keep out 00:33:59.190 --> 00:34:02.099 keep the system out of emergency conditions so those 00:34:02.099 --> 00:34:05.390 megawatts theoretically will always be deployed ahead 00:34:05.390 --> 00:34:09.630 of any type of emergency condition Um unlike other 00:34:09.630 --> 00:34:12.420 ancillary services which are to respond to the emergency 00:34:12.420 --> 00:34:15.269 condition and bring us out of it once we have already 00:34:15.280 --> 00:34:20.940 entered EEA three. Rank down by virtue of the service 00:34:20.949 --> 00:34:25.389 is asking generators to turn off so sure if someone 00:34:25.389 --> 00:34:29.050 wants to bid into red down as a resource that wants 00:34:29.050 --> 00:34:32.199 to turn themselves off, they see no reliability problem 00:34:32.210 --> 00:34:35.340 as a, as a feature of the A. S and they are 00:34:35.349 --> 00:34:37.530 present and we actually have the privilege of having 00:34:37.530 --> 00:34:41.429 Dan and Kenan uh for this meeting, which thank you 00:34:41.429 --> 00:34:46.710 so much. Um if we have questions other other clarifications 00:34:46.710 --> 00:34:50.730 they plan to address include any DGR or DESRs 00:34:50.730 --> 00:34:54.079 connected to a non Load shed circuit can provide 00:34:54.090 --> 00:34:58.570 all ancillary services the resource qualifies for um 00:34:58.579 --> 00:35:03.250 uh the QSC ultimately as a part of their uh protocol 00:35:03.250 --> 00:35:06.300 suggestion carries the risk of not meeting the performance 00:35:06.309 --> 00:35:09.920 obligations if the circuit experiences an outage for 00:35:09.920 --> 00:35:13.679 any reason and that is to track the money back to ultimately 00:35:13.679 --> 00:35:19.699 who is responsible. Um the QSC is managing that and 00:35:19.710 --> 00:35:22.059 they have the relationship with the generator, the 00:35:22.059 --> 00:35:27.159 generating resource. Uh They also may be open to the 00:35:27.159 --> 00:35:32.079 qualification of these resources. Um Opening up ERCOT 00:35:32.079 --> 00:35:35.530 contingency reserve service once it is finally deployed 00:35:35.539 --> 00:35:39.849 into the system because Nonspin elements certainly 00:35:39.860 --> 00:35:43.159 are envisioned to have a place in the world of ECRS 00:35:43.170 --> 00:35:48.349 once it comes online. So um at the high level, after 00:35:48.349 --> 00:35:52.059 our deliberation, I would urge us that we would consider 00:35:52.059 --> 00:35:56.650 directing ERCOT as a part of their filing to move forward 00:35:56.659 --> 00:36:00.599 with the staff with with the staff proposed um uh protocol 00:36:00.599 --> 00:36:03.809 revision and introduce it within the stakeholder process 00:36:03.820 --> 00:36:07.789 under an expedited consideration track which we have 00:36:07.800 --> 00:36:14.019 done very recently and uh that would allow um and they 00:36:14.019 --> 00:36:16.800 can discuss their timetables for consideration, that 00:36:16.800 --> 00:36:20.500 would allow an expeditious uh implementation of the 00:36:20.500 --> 00:36:23.949 policy especially for next spring as we try to build 00:36:23.949 --> 00:36:29.239 in more tools that allows us to meet reliability also 00:36:29.250 --> 00:36:34.420 um affording more resources the ability to keep cost 00:36:34.420 --> 00:36:38.389 pressures down on our burgeoning Ancillary Service 00:36:38.400 --> 00:36:42.719 suite um to meet reliability. So with that commissioners 00:36:42.719 --> 00:36:45.769 I'll hand it over to you for questions. Thank you. 00:36:45.769 --> 00:36:48.159 Commissioner McAdams you've covered quite a bit there 00:36:48.460 --> 00:36:52.889 for the sake of clarity uh let me take it one piece 00:36:52.889 --> 00:36:56.239 at a time if you will, you started out with the discussion 00:36:56.239 --> 00:37:00.349 on the staff memo on distributed energy resources and 00:37:00.349 --> 00:37:03.650 I and I apologize mr I would suggest we take this in 00:37:03.659 --> 00:37:06.980 two parts I and that's why covered the Ancillary service 00:37:06.980 --> 00:37:09.840 part first, since we do have ERCOT personnel available 00:37:09.840 --> 00:37:14.110 for any questions but then I'll also cover um questions 00:37:14.110 --> 00:37:18.530 for staff which broadly I agree with their memo that 00:37:18.530 --> 00:37:22.059 they filed and I do have some clarifying comments like 00:37:22.119 --> 00:37:27.679 we'll do that next regarding the ERCOT memo on the 00:37:27.690 --> 00:37:30.869 distributed energy resources. First of all, Thanks 00:37:31.210 --> 00:37:33.989 for all the work on that you've been working on it 00:37:34.000 --> 00:37:37.539 they've they've been working on that too. Um there 00:37:37.539 --> 00:37:42.269 are two, two components from what I understand you laid out 00:37:42.280 --> 00:37:45.139 first of all as a clarification on existing protocol 00:37:45.139 --> 00:37:50.119 rules saying that distribute energy resource does not 00:37:50.130 --> 00:37:53.869 have to have it construct its own dedicated feeder 00:37:53.880 --> 00:37:59.000 in order to be deployed. Uh it can in fact be added 00:37:59.000 --> 00:38:02.579 to an existing circuit as long as that circuit is not 00:38:02.679 --> 00:38:04.920 available under current reading. 00:38:06.599 --> 00:38:11.139 They they may uh participate in Ancillary participating 00:38:11.139 --> 00:38:14.769 Ancillary services on a curtail-able circuit um because 00:38:14.769 --> 00:38:17.679 they are according to the protocol policy envisioned 00:38:17.780 --> 00:38:20.980 they will be limited in their participation and they 00:38:20.980 --> 00:38:23.170 will be deployed ahead of you think that's the second 00:38:23.170 --> 00:38:26.130 part. I think the second part, I think the first part 00:38:26.130 --> 00:38:29.030 is that before we change the protocols, the current 00:38:29.030 --> 00:38:34.230 reading as it stands today is that the uh you don't 00:38:34.239 --> 00:38:37.230 a battery doesn't need to build its own dedicated feeder 00:38:37.239 --> 00:38:39.789 It can currently link and participate in Ancillary 00:38:39.789 --> 00:38:44.300 services that it currently links up to a curtailing 00:38:44.449 --> 00:38:46.769 non curtail-able circuit, something like a hospital or airport 00:38:46.769 --> 00:38:50.159 or something like that. And then the next step is what 00:38:50.159 --> 00:38:54.260 you're proposing, the protocol changes to address participation 00:38:54.260 --> 00:38:58.289 in a curtail-able circuit. So uh that's the changes 00:38:58.289 --> 00:39:02.949 to the protocol that we would be asking for to clarify 00:39:02.949 --> 00:39:08.760 our cots to expand the optionality of batteries participating 00:39:08.760 --> 00:39:12.000 in Ancillary services and that's the part where we're 00:39:12.000 --> 00:39:17.239 gonna ask them to expeditiously change the the protocols 00:39:17.250 --> 00:39:23.239 to say that they a battery can connect to a curtail 00:39:23.239 --> 00:39:26.010 herbal circuit and participate in ancillary services 00:39:26.880 --> 00:39:32.360 As long as it's only Nonspin and reg-down for 75% of 00:39:32.360 --> 00:39:35.400 your comment. I wholeheartedly agree. The 1st 25%. 00:39:35.409 --> 00:39:37.920 I don't believe any of these resources connected to 00:39:37.920 --> 00:39:41.389 distribution are currently allowed to participate in 00:39:41.389 --> 00:39:45.539 a s first of all we don't have that many um but 00:39:45.550 --> 00:39:48.179 they're not but that's what we were just by this conversation 00:39:48.179 --> 00:39:50.199 We're clarifying that. They can. That is correct. Yes 00:39:50.199 --> 00:39:52.639 sir. That is correct. On a non containable circuit 00:39:52.650 --> 00:39:55.289 Yes sir. Right now dan 00:39:57.489 --> 00:40:03.639 we do have some amount of E S R D E s 00:40:03.639 --> 00:40:06.110 are distributed energy researchers, energy storage 00:40:06.110 --> 00:40:10.980 resources that are providing um red-up and responsive 00:40:10.980 --> 00:40:14.809 reserve because they're meeting the the on curtail-able circuit available 00:40:14.809 --> 00:40:16.829 circuits on. 00:40:20.050 --> 00:40:23.019 Okay. Right, so that's the clarification as it is today 00:40:23.019 --> 00:40:26.309 we're making sure a battery at the distribution level 00:40:26.320 --> 00:40:32.000 does not need to be on its own single. It still it 00:40:32.000 --> 00:40:35.219 still does before we change the protocols. Right. But 00:40:35.219 --> 00:40:36.739 that's why we're gonna change the protocols. 00:40:38.519 --> 00:40:41.409 They can they can still they can provide I think I 00:40:41.409 --> 00:40:44.329 think what we're proposing is that they can provide 00:40:44.960 --> 00:40:49.369 rig up and responsive if they're on a non curtail-able 00:40:49.369 --> 00:40:53.110 circuit right now even now and going forward before 00:40:53.110 --> 00:40:56.960 we change any protocols but so that's the current state 00:40:56.960 --> 00:41:00.889 of the world, we want to take it further and change 00:41:00.889 --> 00:41:04.809 the protocols to clarify that on a curtail-able circuit 00:41:04.829 --> 00:41:07.940 they can provide in the future has been up to some 00:41:07.940 --> 00:41:13.489 limit and down okay, we're on the same page. Okay. 00:41:13.500 --> 00:41:18.000 Just one, make sure, okay, make sure everybody's on 00:41:18.000 --> 00:41:20.599 the same page and I'm thinking about it in the right 00:41:20.610 --> 00:41:24.170 way. But all of that makes a lot of sense to me 00:41:24.179 --> 00:41:30.659 Uh and the only request I would have is as we go 00:41:30.659 --> 00:41:35.300 through this and and first of all we want to uh ask 00:41:35.300 --> 00:41:40.460 for an expeditious uh NPRR I know and I'd ask ERCOT 00:41:40.460 --> 00:41:43.449 to to go back and really engage with tax because this 00:41:43.449 --> 00:41:47.480 is gonna fall TAC to be expeditious, not necessarily 00:41:47.480 --> 00:41:53.010 ERCOT staff, but as engaged TAC and come back to us 00:41:53.010 --> 00:41:55.980 with a proposed timeline and we can go from there. 00:41:55.989 --> 00:41:58.760 Uh The second thing I would ask is that as we go 00:41:58.760 --> 00:42:02.429 through this, NPRR and and the protocol change process 00:42:03.349 --> 00:42:09.269 Uh as specifically the T DSPs to ensure that it is 00:42:09.269 --> 00:42:14.239 abundantly clear in whatever the new protocols dictate 00:42:14.250 --> 00:42:20.599 that while a battery on a curtail-able circuit that 00:42:20.599 --> 00:42:25.070 is participating in Nonspin particularly, but any ancillary 00:42:25.070 --> 00:42:31.210 services, if it is in the state of discharge, it cannot 00:42:31.210 --> 00:42:35.929 be part of Load shed. If if it has already been discharged 00:42:36.610 --> 00:42:40.489 then no harm, no foul, but we wouldn't obviously want 00:42:40.489 --> 00:42:43.099 and it's addressed in the ERCOT memo, I think it's 00:42:43.099 --> 00:42:46.739 it says presumably the T D. S. P would be aware that 00:42:46.739 --> 00:42:49.780 that resources dis is discharging and thus providing 00:42:49.789 --> 00:42:53.909 enhancing reliability. Let's just move that presumably 00:42:53.909 --> 00:42:59.070 to a certainly uh, and get some clarification around 00:42:59.070 --> 00:43:03.320 that. I think what we're meaning by that language is 00:43:03.320 --> 00:43:06.860 that from a reliability perspective, if if we needed 00:43:06.860 --> 00:43:10.710 a particular feeder to uh, if we, if we deal the particular 00:43:10.719 --> 00:43:13.800 transmission operator to shed 100 megawatts of Load 00:43:13.809 --> 00:43:20.289 they if that uh if the battery was producing 20 megawatts 00:43:20.289 --> 00:43:22.679 and there was 100 megawatts of load on a particular 00:43:22.679 --> 00:43:26.070 feeder, that feeder would only count for 80 megawatts 00:43:26.070 --> 00:43:29.289 So it's the net The net of generation would be the 00:43:29.289 --> 00:43:31.309 amount that they would be. So they'd have to go find 00:43:31.309 --> 00:43:34.159 20 megawatt somewhere else to shed make up for the 00:43:34.159 --> 00:43:36.539 hundreds that they need to shed. I just want to make 00:43:36.539 --> 00:43:40.989 sure that is iron clad in the protocols and we move 00:43:40.989 --> 00:43:46.250 from presumably the T DSP will know too. Here's exactly 00:43:46.250 --> 00:43:50.719 how we're going to ensure that the T. D. S. P. No 00:43:50.719 --> 00:43:54.889 and can effectuate that and we're not just swinging 00:43:54.889 --> 00:43:59.110 in the dark and uh shooting ourselves in the foot. 00:43:59.119 --> 00:44:03.130 Uh if we get a lot of batteries that were accidentally 00:44:03.130 --> 00:44:06.420 cutting off. So ultimately that can be involved in 00:44:06.429 --> 00:44:10.469 and and a part of the the risk incurred one for the 00:44:10.469 --> 00:44:14.050 resource, but also for the Qsc who's responsible for 00:44:14.050 --> 00:44:17.030 the resource as well that that is a, that you have 00:44:17.030 --> 00:44:21.710 a, I don't know a certain percentage of nameplate and 00:44:21.739 --> 00:44:24.380 there are a number of ways you can sort of back into 00:44:24.380 --> 00:44:30.039 that, can't you? Yeah, well presumably that presumably 00:44:30.869 --> 00:44:34.940 the T. O. Is gonna have metering on the distribution 00:44:34.940 --> 00:44:37.940 feeder and so they'll know what the net Load on that 00:44:37.949 --> 00:44:40.929 distribution feeder is right. That's that's what we 00:44:40.929 --> 00:44:43.320 want to figure out and we need to make sure that they 00:44:43.320 --> 00:44:50.849 have that come back with a very clear and decisive 00:44:50.860 --> 00:44:57.719 mechanism to ensure that that netting out of Load and 00:44:57.730 --> 00:45:03.469 DSR discharged is accounted accounted for uh during 00:45:03.480 --> 00:45:08.869 a legit event that works for everybody. Yeah I I think 00:45:08.880 --> 00:45:13.420 um we have had a fairly convoluted conversation up 00:45:13.420 --> 00:45:17.050 here um forgive me if I'm a little confused but I think 00:45:17.059 --> 00:45:20.630 I know where we are now. Um the one thing I just 00:45:20.630 --> 00:45:23.760 want to say is this issue has come about because we 00:45:23.760 --> 00:45:26.539 have more batteries that are trying to interconnect 00:45:26.539 --> 00:45:29.010 at the distribution voltage. We don't have many of 00:45:29.010 --> 00:45:31.769 those right now but as more and more are trying to 00:45:31.769 --> 00:45:34.510 do that, that's the curtail-able circuit. So we're 00:45:34.510 --> 00:45:37.460 trying to head this issue off at the pass and give 00:45:37.469 --> 00:45:40.039 ERCOT the reliability tools that they need, give the 00:45:40.050 --> 00:45:43.070 industry the certainty that they need, I guarantee 00:45:43.070 --> 00:45:44.730 you we're gonna have to come back and address this 00:45:44.730 --> 00:45:48.780 issue again when we have a few 1000 megawatts of batteries 00:45:48.789 --> 00:45:51.349 on the distribution circuits because the load shed 00:45:51.349 --> 00:45:53.130 procedures are gonna have to change and we're gonna 00:45:53.130 --> 00:45:56.699 have to have a deep discussion with the T. O. S. T 00:45:56.699 --> 00:45:59.849 D. S. P. S on how that works. So I mean I 00:45:59.849 --> 00:46:02.769 think we're doing the right thing here, the right process 00:46:02.769 --> 00:46:05.650 going forward but we just keep in mind that these things 00:46:05.650 --> 00:46:08.739 are gonna have to change you know as these as the numbers 00:46:08.739 --> 00:46:10.900 of these resources grow in the system but that also 00:46:10.900 --> 00:46:14.130 plays into the broader conversation about how targeted 00:46:14.130 --> 00:46:17.920 how granular can you impose a Load shed plan remember 00:46:17.920 --> 00:46:21.340 that we always said like how do you segment but it's 00:46:21.340 --> 00:46:24.539 part of that conversation and I think even ERCOT notes 00:46:24.539 --> 00:46:27.900 that system changes will be needed to have that visibility 00:46:27.909 --> 00:46:31.849 into the distribution system to be able to get that 00:46:31.849 --> 00:46:35.760 data I guess to track the the distributor resources 00:46:35.760 --> 00:46:38.239 on your system because you don't have a lot of visibility 00:46:38.239 --> 00:46:41.760 I mean you don't really have visibility at this time 00:46:41.769 --> 00:46:45.050 We um there's a lot of discussion over the wording 00:46:45.050 --> 00:46:47.889 of this but it's really we need to know what distributed 00:46:47.900 --> 00:46:51.980 resources are on the distribution feeder in a way that 00:46:51.980 --> 00:46:54.780 doesn't cause us to have to model the distribution 00:46:54.780 --> 00:46:58.949 system but actually reflect reflect that destroy generation 00:46:58.949 --> 00:47:03.650 onto the transmission bus if you will make sense and 00:47:03.650 --> 00:47:06.130 and I'd like your appreciate your statements, commissioner 00:47:06.130 --> 00:47:09.489 Glotfelty I think this is a way to sort of get the 00:47:09.489 --> 00:47:13.190 ball rolling on providing clarity to um the distributor 00:47:13.190 --> 00:47:16.139 resources out there that the utilities and to give 00:47:16.150 --> 00:47:20.019 ERCOT yet another tool to um to look at and have in 00:47:20.019 --> 00:47:22.840 their pocket for reliability in the future and we take 00:47:22.840 --> 00:47:25.190 incremental steps towards getting there at this time 00:47:25.190 --> 00:47:31.099 by having um the protocols revised and and looked at 00:47:31.110 --> 00:47:35.150 um to to allow that function to move forward. I have 00:47:35.150 --> 00:47:39.190 a kind of a question and um at the ERCOT RNM 00:47:39.190 --> 00:47:43.670 committee meeting you mentioned NPRR 987 that 00:47:43.900 --> 00:47:47.789 well now account for battery storage um when you calculate 00:47:47.800 --> 00:47:52.360 PRC, which is frequency, how does this play into this 00:47:52.369 --> 00:47:54.590 Is there any overlap here? I'm just trying to understand 00:47:54.590 --> 00:47:58.130 how, how it all works together because ERCOT will 00:47:58.130 --> 00:48:04.210 now be counting um storage that in their PRC calculation 00:48:04.210 --> 00:48:09.500 which will result in um potentially Nonspin not being 00:48:09.500 --> 00:48:13.179 deployed because your storage will raise the PRC and 00:48:13.179 --> 00:48:15.739 you won't have to deploy the Nonspin Is there is there 00:48:15.739 --> 00:48:18.500 any any inter relationship with what we're doing? What 00:48:18.500 --> 00:48:20.769 ERCOT has done with 9 87 with what we're trying to 00:48:20.769 --> 00:48:23.389 do here, I'm just trying to look at it sort of at 00:48:23.389 --> 00:48:26.210 a macro level in terms of battery storage and how this 00:48:26.210 --> 00:48:29.980 all works together. There is some in that in the graph 00:48:29.980 --> 00:48:33.210 in the summer review presentation that shows how much 00:48:33.219 --> 00:48:38.710 of the Energy storage resources were providing responsive 00:48:38.710 --> 00:48:44.949 reserve um of that amount roughly? 23% of it is was 00:48:44.949 --> 00:48:48.610 on the distribution system. So it was on uh non curtail 00:48:48.610 --> 00:48:51.510 herbal feeders. So it's able to provide it. But there's 00:48:51.519 --> 00:48:55.460 currently that amount that's providing responsive today 00:48:55.460 --> 00:48:59.300 that's on distributed uh basically distributed resources 00:49:00.170 --> 00:49:04.789 Okay, so we do have an amount that's doing that. Okay 00:49:04.800 --> 00:49:09.409 so as we have potentially more of these resources on 00:49:09.409 --> 00:49:12.320 the distribution system or these resources, meaning 00:49:12.320 --> 00:49:16.219 more storage on the system on the distribution system 00:49:16.230 --> 00:49:22.329 that percentage could could increase um and um impact 00:49:22.329 --> 00:49:26.159 the PRC calculation ultimately negate the need to deploy 00:49:26.159 --> 00:49:29.829 Nonspin in certain reliability conditions. 00:49:33.880 --> 00:49:36.409 We're gonna have to think through that one because 00:49:36.420 --> 00:49:39.469 right now it would be the only ones that would be able 00:49:39.469 --> 00:49:42.409 to provide responsive reserve that are on the distribution 00:49:42.409 --> 00:49:45.920 system are the ones that are on non curtail herbal 00:49:45.920 --> 00:49:49.260 circuits. Um but that's the existing practice today 00:49:49.269 --> 00:49:55.219 Right. Yes, and still will still will be although the 00:49:55.219 --> 00:49:57.679 thing that I'm thinking about is if they're providing 00:49:57.679 --> 00:50:02.039 Nonspin um and so there are distributed generation 00:50:02.050 --> 00:50:04.460 or the distributed resource, are we gonna count the 00:50:04.460 --> 00:50:07.630 headroom any headroom they might have if they're online 00:50:07.639 --> 00:50:10.030 toward PRC or not. We'll have to think through that 00:50:10.039 --> 00:50:12.760 because I don't I don't know that we have at this point 00:50:13.769 --> 00:50:17.219 is a constant journey of self discovery for the system 00:50:17.809 --> 00:50:23.280 This is a good step in the right direction and is a 00:50:23.289 --> 00:50:26.780 measured approach as we've discussed abundantly that 00:50:26.789 --> 00:50:31.130 allows the grid to capture the benefits of these resources 00:50:31.429 --> 00:50:36.510 while also ensuring that there is no risk enhancers 00:50:36.510 --> 00:50:40.949 to reliability and that's an important but nuanced 00:50:40.960 --> 00:50:44.670 distinction between and Nonspin and all our other ancillary 00:50:44.670 --> 00:50:48.909 services. So good, good step forward. So that covers 00:50:48.909 --> 00:50:52.239 your memo discussion any other thoughts, comments on 00:50:52.239 --> 00:50:56.059 that. We covered it thoroughly. Thank you dan, pending 00:50:56.070 --> 00:51:00.539 other thoughts or discussion. Um we'll actually go 00:51:00.539 --> 00:51:05.889 ahead. Okay, I guess does that constitute direction 00:51:05.969 --> 00:51:10.219 Yes, yes, it does. Okay, thank you. Mr Chairman, I 00:51:10.219 --> 00:51:13.949 appreciate that. ERCOT have everything they need to 00:51:13.949 --> 00:51:21.210 move forward. Okay, Okay. Uh staff memo um as mentioned 00:51:21.210 --> 00:51:25.730 in in high level layout, um staff memo took a good 00:51:25.730 --> 00:51:31.579 swing at attempting to address at the parameters outlined 00:51:31.579 --> 00:51:37.010 in our joint memo. Um many of the principles uh staff 00:51:37.019 --> 00:51:41.860 took the liberty to put a question mark behind um to 00:51:42.559 --> 00:51:49.170 set the field uh on a uh discussion draft, the outline 00:51:49.170 --> 00:51:53.210 of a discussion draft. And again the discussion draft 00:51:53.219 --> 00:51:57.389 is not a draft for publication. It is preliminary to 00:51:57.389 --> 00:52:00.480 the preliminary phase and that's why we're trying to 00:52:00.480 --> 00:52:05.110 take this slow. Uh and in a transparent process. Um 00:52:05.119 --> 00:52:10.150 there are several uh there are two pieces of the staff 00:52:10.150 --> 00:52:15.489 memo that I would highlight um that I want to express 00:52:15.489 --> 00:52:20.369 some concern on. Um one of them is item number four 00:52:20.380 --> 00:52:25.360 on page two of three and the filed memo and it it's 00:52:25.360 --> 00:52:28.619 a question that states in so far as cost allocation 00:52:28.619 --> 00:52:32.539 necessitates transmission level allocation to non optimum 00:52:32.550 --> 00:52:36.750 entities under PURA Chapter 35. Subsections 40 point 00:52:36.760 --> 00:52:41.860 oh 55 and 41 point oh 55 should know is be required 00:52:41.860 --> 00:52:45.550 to comply with any cost allocation standards established 00:52:45.559 --> 00:52:48.789 for distribution system in this rulemaking, 00:52:50.539 --> 00:52:56.559 I believe that asking that question may have the unintended 00:52:56.559 --> 00:53:02.000 effect of calling into question, our regulatory oversight 00:53:02.010 --> 00:53:03.380 of noise 00:53:05.050 --> 00:53:07.880 participating in the wholesale market, interconnecting 00:53:07.880 --> 00:53:11.670 at transmission and recovering costs through t costs 00:53:11.679 --> 00:53:15.909 Um, it may beg the question of whether our hands are 00:53:15.909 --> 00:53:20.340 tied or whether we are prohibited ultimately from regulating 00:53:20.340 --> 00:53:25.400 effectively regulating noise at transmission. And in 00:53:25.400 --> 00:53:29.159 my view, this is an area of settled law. I believe 00:53:29.159 --> 00:53:33.849 we do have that ability. Um, I would just say that 00:53:33.860 --> 00:53:37.179 for that portion of the principles outlined in our 00:53:37.179 --> 00:53:40.420 joint memo. We articulated that not necessarily as 00:53:40.420 --> 00:53:43.400 a question, but as a stated fact, this is an area of 00:53:43.400 --> 00:53:49.090 statute. Um, it is, it is key to the regulatory framework 00:53:49.099 --> 00:53:52.519 of the commission and uh, and our wholesale bulk power 00:53:52.519 --> 00:53:56.539 system. And so I would urge us to consider and staff 00:53:56.539 --> 00:54:00.159 may agree and possibly eliminating that question from 00:54:00.159 --> 00:54:04.010 those that go out as a part of the questions for the 00:54:04.019 --> 00:54:09.250 draft discussion draft and I'd welcome any feedback 00:54:09.250 --> 00:54:13.949 on that. And then the second piece is question number 00:54:13.949 --> 00:54:21.480 six. Um, and I'll read that 16 TAC 16 TAC 25.501 00:54:21.480 --> 00:54:25.440 subsection m provides wholesale storage is not 00:54:25.440 --> 00:54:29.090 subject to retail tariff rates and charges or fees 00:54:29.090 --> 00:54:32.170 assessed in conjunction with retail purchase of electricity 00:54:32.440 --> 00:54:36.260 wholesale storage shall not be subject to ERCOT charges 00:54:36.260 --> 00:54:39.489 and credits associated with Ancillary service obligations 00:54:39.500 --> 00:54:42.980 or other Load ratio share or per megawatt hour based 00:54:42.980 --> 00:54:46.789 charges and allocations. And that, that is sighting 00:54:46.789 --> 00:54:50.530 of the rule which was established in 2012 and it goes 00:54:50.530 --> 00:54:53.559 on to ask the question given changes in technology 00:54:53.570 --> 00:54:56.030 and the proliferation of E. S. R. S on the ERCOT 00:54:56.030 --> 00:54:59.449 grid. Should the commission revisit this policy on 00:54:59.449 --> 00:55:04.340 wholesale storage? Load and if so, how and I would 00:55:04.340 --> 00:55:08.610 like to post the staff for clarification. Um, the intent 00:55:08.619 --> 00:55:10.760 of the question, the ultimate intent of the question 00:55:10.769 --> 00:55:15.139 and how that question in their view should affect or 00:55:15.150 --> 00:55:21.099 or well affect the installed battery capacity that 00:55:21.099 --> 00:55:25.809 we've had since 2020 2012 to now over the last 10 00:55:25.809 --> 00:55:28.429 years because that's one billion over $1 billion in 00:55:28.429 --> 00:55:32.110 investment. And um, what their view is in terms of 00:55:32.110 --> 00:55:35.690 the nuance of the question and how they hope to gain 00:55:35.690 --> 00:55:38.489 responses. And I would, I would like staff to have 00:55:38.489 --> 00:55:41.969 the ability to offer thoughts or clarification on that 00:55:42.760 --> 00:55:46.389 Absolutely. Thank you for the opportunity to clarify 00:55:46.400 --> 00:55:53.260 Um, it was certainly not staff's intent or um, thought 00:55:53.260 --> 00:55:58.510 that the commission might want to change how the rules 00:55:58.510 --> 00:56:02.469 under which existing resources are going to be expected 00:56:02.469 --> 00:56:08.809 to operate? Rather we would like to um, Take have have 00:56:08.809 --> 00:56:13.179 parties comment on given technique the way technology 00:56:13.179 --> 00:56:17.480 is developed in the last 10 years. Is there some other 00:56:17.489 --> 00:56:21.519 aspect that needs to be included in the rule or change 00:56:21.519 --> 00:56:26.260 in policy. So we are not intending to cast a regulatory 00:56:26.260 --> 00:56:29.949 cloud over existing resources. It's a forward looking 00:56:29.960 --> 00:56:34.960 request for for for commentary on forward looking dynamics 00:56:34.969 --> 00:56:37.980 in a future state of the world where we would have 00:56:37.980 --> 00:56:42.679 more wholesale storage resources. I don't think that's 00:56:42.679 --> 00:56:45.809 fair. Exactly forward looking is the perfect description 00:56:46.730 --> 00:56:50.500 Okay, I think that's fair. And I trust our stakeholders 00:56:50.500 --> 00:56:56.239 will uh contemplate and consider this conversation 00:56:56.469 --> 00:57:00.289 as they respond to that question. Does it make sense 00:57:00.289 --> 00:57:04.639 Because as I read this question as well, um, I come 00:57:04.639 --> 00:57:07.300 away with the same conclusion you do as well. Commissioner 00:57:07.300 --> 00:57:10.550 McAdams and then given your clarification, um, Connie 00:57:10.550 --> 00:57:12.590 does it make sense to restructure the question a little 00:57:12.590 --> 00:57:15.019 bit because the last thing we want is to put any regulatory 00:57:15.019 --> 00:57:18.619 uncertainty on the existing investment battery storage 00:57:18.619 --> 00:57:22.090 in ERCOT And also what we're trying to do here is incent 00:57:22.090 --> 00:57:25.500 investment and move technologies forward and I just 00:57:25.500 --> 00:57:29.440 don't want any regulatory uncertainty cloud and I know 00:57:29.440 --> 00:57:31.800 that's not what you mean. But if there's a way to maybe 00:57:31.800 --> 00:57:33.929 revise the question so that it captures what you're 00:57:33.929 --> 00:57:39.090 trying to do this discussion. We'll work on work on 00:57:39.099 --> 00:57:42.000 adjusting the language to reflect this discussion. 00:57:42.010 --> 00:57:46.800 Um, our our memo calls for these questions to be filed 00:57:46.809 --> 00:57:51.710 on monday, Um, to kick off the comment process and 00:57:51.719 --> 00:57:57.079 again, if it helps these are information gathering 00:57:57.090 --> 00:58:01.219 questions. Um, so hopefully the parties will understand 00:58:01.219 --> 00:58:05.309 that the version presented filed Monday. We'll have 00:58:05.320 --> 00:58:08.940 clarifying language incorporated into question six 00:58:08.949 --> 00:58:15.409 Yes. And if you're and when you're ready, I would like 00:58:15.409 --> 00:58:21.699 to comment on Commissioner McAdams remarks on unquestioned 00:58:21.699 --> 00:58:26.349 for as well. Um he very correctly surmised that staff 00:58:26.349 --> 00:58:29.679 was carrying out the open meeting discussion from October 00:58:29.679 --> 00:58:34.699 six in which the instruction was to oppose each of 00:58:34.699 --> 00:58:38.500 five bullet points as a question. Um staff agrees that 00:58:38.500 --> 00:58:43.000 that is settled law and we do not necessarily we do 00:58:43.000 --> 00:58:47.500 not need to be seeking comment on it. Um Similarly 00:58:47.510 --> 00:58:53.989 for question five, that that now that we've bifurcated 00:58:54.000 --> 00:58:56.880 that belongs in the first project, so we'll be moving 00:58:56.880 --> 00:59:00.210 that to the first project. Okay, fair. And I'll take 00:59:00.210 --> 00:59:04.170 the blame for the ambiguity at the last meeting. Uh 00:59:04.179 --> 00:59:06.699 I was the one that said, add question marks and I should 00:59:06.699 --> 00:59:11.199 have been more nuanced and which statements were relevant 00:59:11.199 --> 00:59:15.320 for questions, so yeah, I'll take the hit on that one 00:59:16.690 --> 00:59:20.579 All right, good, all good things. One thing I just 00:59:20.579 --> 00:59:24.079 wanna say additive to the memo, which is, we talk a 00:59:24.079 --> 00:59:27.659 lot about costs, costs on the system, who's gonna pay 00:59:27.659 --> 00:59:30.840 for what costs? Um I'd also like stakeholders to talk 00:59:30.840 --> 00:59:33.039 about benefits too. There are huge numbers of Ben, 00:59:33.199 --> 00:59:35.599 it's on here and highlighting the types of benefits 00:59:35.599 --> 00:59:38.250 that we would be receiving from these types of resources 00:59:38.250 --> 00:59:40.949 would help us understand the whole universe of those 00:59:41.360 --> 00:59:45.239 Let's ask the questions. I'm sure we'll get robust 00:59:45.239 --> 00:59:47.909 response is thank you. Thank you. 00:59:50.309 --> 00:59:53.179 Uh Well I guess with that Mr chairman pending any other 00:59:53.190 --> 00:59:58.300 discussion or input. I would recommend that we uh instruct 00:59:58.300 --> 01:00:03.210 staff to move forward um or adopt the proposed staff 01:00:03.219 --> 01:00:07.670 memo for discussion, draft questions, I don't know 01:00:11.679 --> 01:00:12.190 but 01:00:14.699 --> 01:00:16.909 All right. We got everything we need our cats got all 01:00:16.909 --> 01:00:20.050 the clarification they need, you'll open new dockets 01:00:20.050 --> 01:00:20.829 for both of these. 01:00:23.670 --> 01:00:28.940 All right. It moves us further down our agenda. The 01:00:28.940 --> 01:00:32.099 next thing I know, is item 25. Never mind. I 01:00:32.099 --> 01:00:32.820 was consented. 01:00:34.409 --> 01:00:41.059 No, I think that one was a joke. Right. Um It seems 01:00:41.059 --> 01:00:43.400 like it's becoming a long day. 01:00:45.440 --> 01:00:49.530 This is supposed to be a short meeting. What what item 01:00:49.530 --> 01:00:51.820 does that bring us to? I think 33, we have an update 01:00:51.820 --> 01:00:52.519 from ERCOT. 01:00:56.639 --> 01:00:59.400 Unless you have anything between 25 and 33, we'll ask 01:00:59.400 --> 01:01:04.010 ERCOT. ERCOT, would you come up? 01:01:14.889 --> 01:01:24.139 (item:33:Update from ERCOT) Good morning. Uh um So uh for our every year 01:01:24.139 --> 01:01:27.730 we do a summer review of what went on during the summer 01:01:27.739 --> 01:01:31.719 We filed a presentation to this morning or yesterday 01:01:31.719 --> 01:01:34.900 for that. Um I guess our thinking was we give you some 01:01:34.900 --> 01:01:37.710 high level overview of that since it's basically the 01:01:37.710 --> 01:01:40.230 same presentation we did at the board meeting open 01:01:40.230 --> 01:01:44.559 meeting earlier this week. Um So if that's okay, that's 01:01:44.559 --> 01:01:47.769 what we'll do. Absolutely. Um So we had a really good 01:01:47.780 --> 01:01:51.300 summer from reliability perspective. Um, we served 01:01:51.300 --> 01:01:55.849 more customer demand than ever before um and set several 01:01:55.860 --> 01:01:59.179 new ratcheting up peaks during the course of the summer 01:01:59.179 --> 01:02:03.099 ending with a new all time record of over 80 gigawatts 01:02:03.110 --> 01:02:06.090 Uh, we generally had higher wind and solar generation 01:02:06.090 --> 01:02:09.239 than last year, primarily due to higher installed capacity 01:02:09.239 --> 01:02:12.539 of both of those technologies, Thermal unit forced 01:02:12.539 --> 01:02:15.869 outages were only slightly higher than what we had 01:02:15.869 --> 01:02:19.889 last summer, about 700 MW or about one generator on 01:02:19.889 --> 01:02:22.929 average over the course of the summer, so not a lot 01:02:22.929 --> 01:02:25.889 higher um as a result of all those factors, we were 01:02:25.889 --> 01:02:29.289 able to serve these record demands through the second 01:02:29.289 --> 01:02:32.940 hottest summer on record uh, without declaring any 01:02:32.949 --> 01:02:37.010 energy emergencies. Um so I turned over to Kenan to 01:02:37.019 --> 01:02:40.690 give an overview of the market side. Thank you Kenan 01:02:40.690 --> 01:02:45.679 Ogelman with ERCOT um the themes I wanted to share 01:02:45.690 --> 01:02:50.380 uh, piggyback on what dan laid out, which was, it was 01:02:50.380 --> 01:02:55.920 an extremely hot summer. Um there was a lot more usage 01:02:55.929 --> 01:02:58.900 there were many more scarcity intervals than we had 01:02:58.900 --> 01:03:03.820 seen in previous summers and if you couple that with 01:03:03.829 --> 01:03:08.519 um some of the geopolitical issues around uh natural 01:03:08.519 --> 01:03:13.820 gas prices in particular, but um input prices across 01:03:13.820 --> 01:03:20.230 the board. Um you see increased prices for energy for 01:03:20.230 --> 01:03:26.130 Ancillary services. Um and uh, if you couple that with 01:03:26.469 --> 01:03:32.260 uh increased usage, you see higher effects on, on bills 01:03:32.269 --> 01:03:37.659 and um, so that was from the market side, the themes 01:03:37.670 --> 01:03:43.590 of the summer uh, that uh aligned with what we saw 01:03:43.599 --> 01:03:44.679 operationally 01:03:46.960 --> 01:03:51.000 be happy to answer any questions. Thank you appreciate 01:03:51.000 --> 01:03:54.559 the presentation board meeting in the summary here 01:03:55.510 --> 01:03:59.250 and goes, goes without saying that is a remarkable 01:03:59.250 --> 01:04:02.570 performance by market and the grid in the face of a 01:04:02.579 --> 01:04:08.469 record setting summer record breaking demand to set 01:04:08.480 --> 01:04:14.210 dozens of daily seasonal, weekly monthly records in 01:04:14.210 --> 01:04:20.429 addition to multiple all time records that we set under 01:04:20.440 --> 01:04:24.550 very challenging conditions, says a lot about the work 01:04:24.550 --> 01:04:27.460 that's been done to make this written more reliable 01:04:27.469 --> 01:04:31.309 has been tested and it has risen to the challenge, 01:04:31.320 --> 01:04:35.199 appreciate all y'all's work on it. Um, thoughts, comments 01:04:35.210 --> 01:04:40.090 questions no, the demand periods this summer were awesome 01:04:40.099 --> 01:04:43.150 in nature and I don't mean that is like awesome. Cool 01:04:43.150 --> 01:04:45.260 I mean awesome. Like you're staring at mount Everest 01:04:45.260 --> 01:04:51.530 They were huge and it just demonstrates the, the transition 01:04:51.539 --> 01:04:54.369 that we're in right now. And ERCOT is at the center 01:04:54.369 --> 01:04:59.710 of it and has uh comported itself admirably. Um, you've 01:04:59.719 --> 01:05:02.059 you've faced the challenges and we appreciated the 01:05:02.059 --> 01:05:07.250 work of staff. Um, it shows us the work ahead of uh 01:05:07.260 --> 01:05:11.690 to try to develop as many tools as we can to offer 01:05:11.690 --> 01:05:14.099 you the maximum amount of flexibility to address these 01:05:14.099 --> 01:05:19.190 challenges And, and I think the charts that you presented 01:05:19.190 --> 01:05:22.769 to the board and have sent to us that tells the tale 01:05:22.780 --> 01:05:26.130 in 2018. I never thought I would see charts like this 01:05:26.139 --> 01:05:29.659 That's amazing. Yeah. To your point, the 80,000 megawatt 01:05:29.670 --> 01:05:35.699 record, we set in july ERCOT that demand for 80,000 01:05:35.699 --> 01:05:38.789 megawatts met that demand without breaking his stride 01:05:38.789 --> 01:05:40.909 without getting, not only didn't get into emergency 01:05:40.909 --> 01:05:44.570 conditions, but didn't get into uh scarce substantial 01:05:44.570 --> 01:05:47.139 scarcity pricing met that all time record challenge 01:05:47.139 --> 01:05:50.639 and that's more than all the power consumed in California 01:05:50.639 --> 01:05:53.210 and new york state combined. That's an extraordinary 01:05:53.210 --> 01:05:56.539 thing for Texas And I would add a foot note to that 01:05:56.550 --> 01:06:00.119 in that not only did ERCOT serve all Texas households 01:06:00.119 --> 01:06:03.940 at all time peak demand of over 80,000 gigawatts, but 01:06:03.949 --> 01:06:07.739 ERCOT still had excess generation to serve probably 01:06:07.739 --> 01:06:10.239 nearly a million more households during that time. 01:06:10.239 --> 01:06:13.309 So that's really important. And then just comparing 01:06:13.309 --> 01:06:17.329 the record demand that we had to other markets, I think 01:06:17.329 --> 01:06:21.880 I noted SPP in july hit, um, you know, somewhere in 01:06:21.880 --> 01:06:26.619 the mid fifties, um, 50 gigawatts, mid 50 gigawatts 01:06:26.619 --> 01:06:29.090 compared to 80,000 gigawatts. I mean, that just shows 01:06:29.090 --> 01:06:34.469 the Yeah, exactly. And so that just shows the immense 01:06:34.469 --> 01:06:37.880 amount of electricity demand that our our state um 01:06:37.889 --> 01:06:41.219 is that are going given the economic and population 01:06:41.219 --> 01:06:43.449 growth that we're experiencing and I agree wholeheartedly 01:06:43.449 --> 01:06:46.809 with Commissioner McAdams um, as we look to plan for 01:06:46.809 --> 01:06:50.900 the future um, in our phase two market redesign efforts 01:06:50.909 --> 01:06:53.900 and looking at um how do we plan for the future in 01:06:53.900 --> 01:06:57.539 terms of increased electricity consumption given the 01:06:57.539 --> 01:07:00.880 population economic growth in our state, the increased 01:07:00.880 --> 01:07:04.050 amount of um different resources on our system. That 01:07:04.059 --> 01:07:07.159 that's what we're working hard to do. And I think this 01:07:07.159 --> 01:07:11.090 summer was a was a success and we will continue to 01:07:11.090 --> 01:07:14.449 plan forward for the future for this type of these 01:07:14.460 --> 01:07:17.000 these types of emergency or weather conditions rather 01:07:18.880 --> 01:07:23.670 what put Alright gentlemen, thank you and thanks to 01:07:23.670 --> 01:07:26.329 the entire team for such outstanding performance this 01:07:26.329 --> 01:07:26.710 summer. 01:07:29.889 --> 01:07:35.079 That is the last item that we need to cover for today 01:07:35.090 --> 01:07:38.969 before closed session. So at this point, having convened 01:07:38.969 --> 01:07:41.039 in a duly notice, open meeting, the commission will 01:07:41.039 --> 01:07:44.880 now at 11:01 AM on october 20th 2020 to hold a 01:07:44.889 --> 01:07:47.710 closed session, pursuant to chapter 551 on the Texas 01:07:47.710 --> 01:07:55.940 government code, section 551.7155 point 1074 and 551.76 01:07:55.949 --> 01:07:57.599 We'll be back in a bit 01:08:04.639 --> 01:08:09.599 closed session is hereby concluded at 1146 AM on october 01:08:09.599 --> 01:08:12.119 2020 22. The commission will now resume its public 01:08:12.119 --> 01:08:15.679 meeting. Commission will take no action following closed 01:08:15.690 --> 01:08:18.479 session and there being no further business to come 01:08:18.479 --> 01:08:20.130 before the commission. This meeting, the public until 01:08:20.130 --> 01:08:22.039 Commissioner Texas is hereby adjourned