WEBVTT

00:00:00.009 --> 00:00:02.258
Well, I'm glad to see how well you all collaborate

00:00:02.269 --> 00:00:03.419
and conversate.

00:00:06.309 --> 00:00:09.589
Before we get started today, we have a very special

00:00:09.599 --> 00:00:12.739
treat. Um, and that is Commissioner Jackson who would

00:00:12.750 --> 00:00:16.208
like to give us a few opening remarks. After that, we

00:00:16.219 --> 00:00:19.068
will go through introductions in the room. (item:1:38578, Commissioner Jackson's opening remarks) So I'm gonna

00:00:19.079 --> 00:00:23.039
turn it over to Commissioner Jackson. Thank you. I'm not the most special

00:00:23.048 --> 00:00:25.158
person here, by the way. Y'all are the most special

00:00:25.170 --> 00:00:28.568
people here, because you are working so hard on something

00:00:28.579 --> 00:00:31.850
that is near and dear to heart, which is energy efficiency.

00:00:31.859 --> 00:00:34.700
So I just first and foremost want to just say thank you

00:00:34.709 --> 00:00:37.819
for all the work that you've done so far. And also,

00:00:37.829 --> 00:00:40.319
to kind of thank you for all the work that is ahead.

00:00:40.329 --> 00:00:43.639
Because I mean it's, it's a challenging uh

00:00:43.658 --> 00:00:47.090
opportunity and it's gonna take lots of people working

00:00:47.098 --> 00:00:51.819
together collaboratively. To pinpoint what that optimization

00:00:51.829 --> 00:00:56.829
is uh for energy efficiency in kind of modern day Texas.

00:00:56.840 --> 00:00:59.289
And I think that in my mind is kind of like the

00:00:59.298 --> 00:01:01.868
big opportunity that we, we have, and then we're asking

00:01:01.939 --> 00:01:05.129
ourselves. What does energy efficiency look like in

00:01:05.138 --> 00:01:07.659
modern day Texas? Because as we know, Texas is unlike

00:01:07.668 --> 00:01:10.859
any other state. We have tremendous opportunities because

00:01:10.870 --> 00:01:14.948
we are growing. And uh also because I think, um you

00:01:14.959 --> 00:01:17.359
know, we have this culture of people that care for

00:01:17.370 --> 00:01:20.278
one another. So we want to make sure that the opportunities

00:01:20.290 --> 00:01:23.400
are out there. Uh, not only for what we're talking about

00:01:23.409 --> 00:01:27.659
here today. Which is that, which is provided by statute. But

00:01:27.668 --> 00:01:30.049
also, you know, what are those opportunities that people

00:01:30.058 --> 00:01:33.439
have kind of moving forward. That they can kind of do

00:01:33.448 --> 00:01:37.000
either through their own culture and kind of how they

00:01:37.010 --> 00:01:40.859
behave, and how they react very similar to water world.

00:01:41.088 --> 00:01:44.418
When, you know, we say that it's important enough to care about

00:01:44.430 --> 00:01:47.620
it, important enough to measure. And then also just

00:01:47.629 --> 00:01:49.388
you know, kind of having that opportunity to think

00:01:49.400 --> 00:01:53.019
about. How we, how we look at it as an overall system.

00:01:53.028 --> 00:01:56.519
So, um just really excited to hear the presentations

00:01:56.528 --> 00:01:59.058
this morning and thank our special guest, you know.

00:01:59.069 --> 00:02:02.159
And those who are taking their time to, to share um

00:02:02.168 --> 00:02:04.888
what we're gonna be talking about in the morning. And

00:02:04.900 --> 00:02:08.399
then also, to get the briefing on, you know, the activities

00:02:08.409 --> 00:02:11.258
from all the stakeholder groups during the afternoon.

00:02:11.599 --> 00:02:16.110
And um, just great anticipation of kind of hearing what

00:02:16.118 --> 00:02:18.979
everybody's thoughts and ideas are. And of course,

00:02:18.990 --> 00:02:21.830
you know, we worked in uh had different stakeholder

00:02:21.838 --> 00:02:24.819
groups and broke out, you know, in the various sections.

00:02:24.830 --> 00:02:27.479
But this is the opportunity for everybody to kind of

00:02:27.490 --> 00:02:32.288
come together and uh, comment and kind of frame where we

00:02:32.300 --> 00:02:36.129
are kind of going forward. So just appreciate everybody

00:02:36.139 --> 00:02:39.508
here. And uh anybody that has, you know, individual

00:02:39.520 --> 00:02:42.110
thoughts and ideas, I'd love to, you know, talk with

00:02:42.118 --> 00:02:45.229
you today or later on as a follow up. Uh, the door

00:02:45.240 --> 00:02:47.368
is always open, uh, when you walk through and you want

00:02:47.379 --> 00:02:48.368
to talk about energy.

00:02:51.919 --> 00:02:55.679
Thank you Commissioner Jackson. I am so grateful that Commissioner Jackson

00:02:56.110 --> 00:02:59.210
is lending expertise to this group. We're very fortunate.

00:02:59.710 --> 00:03:02.538
We have a great agenda set up today and we're going

00:03:02.550 --> 00:03:05.338
to hear from Property Assessed Clean Energy. We're going

00:03:05.349 --> 00:03:08.819
to hear the program update from various utilities.

00:03:08.879 --> 00:03:11.360
And then as Commissioner Jackson noted, we're going

00:03:11.368 --> 00:03:16.778
to have the stakeholder input summary led by (inaudible) in the

00:03:16.788 --> 00:03:20.490
afternoon. So before we get started, (item:1:38578, Welcome and Introductions) I'd like to welcome

00:03:20.500 --> 00:03:22.860
everyone in the room and I would like to start with

00:03:22.868 --> 00:03:27.250
introductions. I would ask that one individual from

00:03:27.258 --> 00:03:31.139
each organization, stand up and um introduce everyone

00:03:31.149 --> 00:03:34.449
in your organization. And we will go ahead and start

00:03:34.460 --> 00:03:38.028
over on the left hand, my left side of the room with

00:03:38.038 --> 00:03:41.179
Amy. Hi, Amy (inaudible) Energy. I have

00:03:45.629 --> 00:03:48.558
Derek Newman (inaudible). Uh, I'll introduce the CenterPoint Energy team. Uh

00:03:48.569 --> 00:03:52.979
with me, I have Tim Griffin, Lashon Johnson, Shay

00:03:52.990 --> 00:03:56.909
Richardson, Patrick Reinhardt and Harry Roth and I'm

00:03:56.919 --> 00:04:01.899
Ana Baskharone. Great, thank you. My name is Ellie Reed.

00:04:01.909 --> 00:04:03.649
I'm um on the Media team here.

00:04:06.389 --> 00:04:09.319
at the PUC. My name is Robert Cavasos. I'm with AEP Texas. And with

00:04:09.330 --> 00:04:13.038
us we have Danny Trevino, Pam Osalo and Russell

00:04:16.649 --> 00:04:18.100
Bingham. Great. I see Xcel back there. Hi, Jeremy Lovelady with Xcel

00:04:20.910 --> 00:04:21.528
and (inaudible). I have with me Derek Wood, who's our Program Manager for our Texas programs.

00:04:23.838 --> 00:04:26.389
Great. Hi, I'm with Mark (inaudible) Texas, and I'm here by

00:04:26.399 --> 00:04:26.889
myself.

00:04:30.000 --> 00:04:35.790
Stephanie Case of (inaudible). Perfect. I'm

00:04:35.798 --> 00:04:38.759
Gary Jones with Oncor and uh Paul Jackson is with

00:04:38.769 --> 00:04:41.358
me and Jean Perez will be here shortly. I think she's

00:04:41.480 --> 00:04:44.470
walking in right now. Ok. Yes,

00:04:47.449 --> 00:04:48.088
I know.

00:04:50.829 --> 00:04:54.278
I'm Deborah Miller with SWEPCO. I have (inaudible) with me and Jade

00:04:54.290 --> 00:04:57.869
Sims. Welcome, great. Let's move over to the center

00:04:57.879 --> 00:05:00.439
part of the room. Anyone that has not been introduced,

00:05:00.449 --> 00:05:05.899
any organizations? Uh, I'm Tim McCarthy with TRC. I'm

00:05:05.910 --> 00:05:08.619
Tom McCallister with Spear and I've got uh Noah Oaks

00:05:08.670 --> 00:05:13.689
on local and state policy (inaudible). Great. Hi, I'm Smith Miller

00:05:14.079 --> 00:05:17.170
(inaudible). We represent uh the Steering Committee of Cities

00:05:17.178 --> 00:05:21.689
served by Oncor. And with me is (inaudible).

00:05:21.699 --> 00:05:24.009
I'm Matthew Merrill with uh Good Results and I have put

00:05:24.170 --> 00:05:24.569
(inaudible) with me.

00:05:26.420 --> 00:05:28.738
Good morning, everyone. I'm Tara Dennis, I'm with Resource

00:05:28.750 --> 00:05:33.379
Innovations. Lauren Damon with Berlin. Okay, and who just

00:05:33.410 --> 00:05:35.410
walked in? Uh Greg Nettleton, ICF.

00:05:37.298 --> 00:05:38.439
In the back here. Um

00:05:40.119 --> 00:05:42.600
Patricia? Um I'm (inaudible)

00:05:45.720 --> 00:05:50.319
and I have a Tumi Guitar, James Harvell, and Jase Lipson.

00:05:53.980 --> 00:05:58.100
Hi, my name's Liliana De La Fuente, and I'm (inaudible)

00:05:58.139 --> 00:05:58.619
and projects.

00:06:03.459 --> 00:06:03.559
And (inaudible). Oh,

00:06:07.869 --> 00:06:08.879
hi. (inaudible) Lark Lee with 

00:06:11.019 --> 00:06:13.949
Tetra Tech (inaudible). Uh Dub Taylor with Texas Pace Authority, and with me

00:06:13.959 --> 00:06:15.069
is our president, uh Charlene Heydinger.

00:06:16.730 --> 00:06:19.350
Perfect, perfect. Well, welcome. Everybody and I'm gonna turn it over

00:06:19.358 --> 00:06:21.028
to Lark now. I forgot,

00:06:29.889 --> 00:06:31.709
(inaudible)

00:06:33.399 --> 00:06:35.230
I know there's not the best place to stand here. Should

00:06:35.238 --> 00:06:40.809
I get like, what do you think? If I can point? So, uh thank

00:06:40.819 --> 00:06:42.730
you uh to the PUC and thanks to all of

00:06:42.738 --> 00:06:46.129
you for having interest and in Pace: Property Assessed Clean

00:06:46.139 --> 00:06:49.129
Energy Financing. And I'm going to go over spend about

00:06:49.139 --> 00:06:51.720
10 minutes with some basic information, an overview

00:06:51.730 --> 00:06:54.678
of how the program works. How it was set up in Texas

00:06:54.689 --> 00:06:56.689
which may be a little different than some other places.

00:06:56.829 --> 00:06:59.778
Progress to-date and then we'll have an opportunity

00:06:59.790 --> 00:07:02.100
I think for Q and A afterwards and all these slides

00:07:02.108 --> 00:07:04.160
will be provided. So you don't need to feverishly,

00:07:04.170 --> 00:07:05.298
write. You can take notes if you like.

00:07:06.899 --> 00:07:11.139
(item:2:38578, Dub Taylor with Texas Pace Authority gives overview of TX PACE Program) So PACE, the acronym stands for Property Assessed Clean

00:07:11.149 --> 00:07:14.500
Energy. But what's missing there is the F for financing,

00:07:14.509 --> 00:07:16.670
because it's a financing tool. But that's an awkward

00:07:16.678 --> 00:07:19.629
acronym, so it's just PACE. So it's an innovative financing

00:07:19.639 --> 00:07:22.759
tool that can provide 100% financing. For certain energy

00:07:22.769 --> 00:07:26.259
efficiency, water conservation and distributed generation

00:07:26.269 --> 00:07:31.319
projects. The key to this is this is private financing

00:07:31.369 --> 00:07:35.928
for privately owned facilities. But it is channeled

00:07:35.939 --> 00:07:38.660
through a governmental assessment mechanism which provides

00:07:38.670 --> 00:07:41.449
security for a loan that ordinarily a lender would

00:07:41.459 --> 00:07:45.338
not make, so that's really the key. So we like to think

00:07:45.350 --> 00:07:47.569
of it as like you've heard of a property improvement

00:07:47.579 --> 00:07:50.639
district a PID. This is like a PID, but it's for a single

00:07:50.649 --> 00:07:53.629
property where the owner has opted into that. So that's

00:07:53.639 --> 00:07:56.980
really, that's really kind of the structure. Authorized

00:07:56.988 --> 00:08:00.329
under state law Chapter 399, local government code.

00:08:00.338 --> 00:08:04.488
About 10 years ago when the Legislature passed and overwhelmingly

00:08:04.500 --> 00:08:07.858
Governor Perry signed this bill into law. It's local

00:08:07.869 --> 00:08:10.048
government enabled, meaning that cities and counties

00:08:10.059 --> 00:08:13.040
can opt in and set these up at the local and regional

00:08:13.048 --> 00:08:16.928
level. Voluntary and open market, that means that any

00:08:16.939 --> 00:08:19.858
contractor can do the work, any owner can access it,

00:08:19.869 --> 00:08:22.459
any lender can provide the financing. So there's not

00:08:22.470 --> 00:08:26.480
a set list, so to speak. As far as eligibility, any

00:08:26.488 --> 00:08:29.139
commercial property including nonprofit facilities.

00:08:29.350 --> 00:08:32.288
The very first project in the state was actually at

00:08:32.298 --> 00:08:35.509
a temple. I'm going to talk about that later. Multi-

00:08:35.519 --> 00:08:38.989
family, so any multi-family residential five units

00:08:39.000 --> 00:08:41.940
or greater can access PACE and then any sort of industrial

00:08:41.950 --> 00:08:43.450
manufacturing or agricultural.

00:08:45.509 --> 00:08:48.629
(item:3:38578, Dub Taylor discuss what the PACE program in depth) So why PACE and why is this different? If you think

00:08:48.639 --> 00:08:51.149
about conventional equipment financing, because that's

00:08:51.158 --> 00:08:53.918
what this is. You're replacing older systems with newer

00:08:53.928 --> 00:08:57.849
MEP systems. Most lenders view that as an unsecured

00:08:57.859 --> 00:09:00.918
loan. Because in the event of a default, they're not

00:09:00.928 --> 00:09:03.070
going to come rip the equipment out, try to salvage

00:09:03.080 --> 00:09:05.029
it and get their money back. They're just going to

00:09:05.038 --> 00:09:07.580
assume that there's a higher risk associated with that

00:09:07.590 --> 00:09:11.719
type of a loan. So if you look at the repayment terms

00:09:11.729 --> 00:09:14.928
on a conventional equipment loan, they're pretty tight.

00:09:14.940 --> 00:09:17.940
Typically 5 years, 60 months, the lender wants to

00:09:17.950 --> 00:09:20.229
get their money back, they want to derisk that loan.

00:09:20.489 --> 00:09:23.369
And so that means that from a cash flow perspective

00:09:23.379 --> 00:09:26.825
the owner is upside down financially, they're repaying

00:09:26.835 --> 00:09:29.344
all that money at the front end. It would be like financing

00:09:29.354 --> 00:09:32.965
a car, but having to pay all that financing charge

00:09:32.974 --> 00:09:36.234
for the first six months of that car's 5 to 10 year

00:09:36.244 --> 00:09:40.335
life. Not a not a very compelling value proposition

00:09:40.344 --> 00:09:43.558
for an owner. So with pay financing by having a government

00:09:43.570 --> 00:09:47.889
secured lien an assessment to secure that loan. You

00:09:47.899 --> 00:09:50.599
now can extend that financing to match the benefits

00:09:50.609 --> 00:09:54.269
of the project. So that's really the key to PACE and

00:09:54.279 --> 00:09:56.690
how it's different from, from conventional financing.

00:09:58.558 --> 00:10:00.729
So the types of things that are eligible, if you look

00:10:00.739 --> 00:10:03.979
in the, the the bar at the top. If the project say

00:10:03.989 --> 00:10:08.320
it reduces energy or water usage or demand or generates

00:10:08.330 --> 00:10:11.599
energy on site that is potentially eligible. So anything

00:10:11.609 --> 00:10:14.379
that falls under that general definition could be financed

00:10:14.389 --> 00:10:17.798
through PACE, and these are just examples. This is

00:10:17.808 --> 00:10:19.759
a sophisticated audience, so you've seen all these

00:10:19.769 --> 00:10:23.500
things before. But obviously, HBC controls, lighting

00:10:23.509 --> 00:10:26.700
all those sorts of things, distributed generation systems

00:10:26.710 --> 00:10:29.769
and then a whole host of water conservation technologies

00:10:29.779 --> 00:10:32.979
too. When the Texas Pace Act passed, it was sort of

00:10:32.989 --> 00:10:38.658
on the heels of, of our severe drought in 2010-2011, as

00:10:38.668 --> 00:10:41.250
the Commissioner may remember. And so there was a big

00:10:41.259 --> 00:10:44.048
emphasis on water conservation. And the challenge with

00:10:44.058 --> 00:10:46.830
water conservation technologies is they typically have

00:10:46.840 --> 00:10:49.759
a very high capital cost and a very long payback. And

00:10:49.769 --> 00:10:52.700
so this provides a financing mechanism to capture water

00:10:52.710 --> 00:10:53.658
as well as energy.

00:10:56.330 --> 00:11:00.048
So PACE is growing. I mentioned 10 years ago, the Texas

00:11:00.058 --> 00:11:02.658
Pace Act passed, this is the national perspective.

00:11:02.769 --> 00:11:06.479
About 30, I think 38 states have passed PACE enabling

00:11:06.489 --> 00:11:10.460
Legislation. About 30 have active programs Texas' program

00:11:10.739 --> 00:11:13.529
has been active for 10 years. And it's really been hockey

00:11:13.538 --> 00:11:16.239
stick growth, it's really taken off. Uh, $4 billion in

00:11:16.250 --> 00:11:20.750
financing across the country now and that there seems

00:11:20.759 --> 00:11:21.609
to be no end to that.

00:11:23.739 --> 00:11:27.690
Here in Texas again, the 10th anniversary of the Texas

00:11:27.700 --> 00:11:31.729
Pace Act is this year. We have 83 local PACE programs

00:11:31.739 --> 00:11:37.418
cities and counties, 84. Sorry. City of El Campo (inaudible).

00:11:37.428 --> 00:11:40.349
Last night, their city council meeting approved setting

00:11:40.359 --> 00:11:43.739
up a PACE program for the city. Because there is a developer

00:11:43.750 --> 00:11:47.908
bringing in a high-efficiency luxury multi-family apartment

00:11:47.918 --> 00:11:51.678
complex where PACE can be used. For higher-efficiency

00:11:51.690 --> 00:11:55.399
than code on new construction as well. So 84 now as

00:11:55.408 --> 00:11:59.379
of last night. Covers about 73% of the state's population.

00:12:00.009 --> 00:12:03.460
We administer these programs, our role is essentially

00:12:03.469 --> 00:12:08.349
to serve as extended city or county staff. So the counties

00:12:08.359 --> 00:12:09.808
and cities want to offer this, but they don't want

00:12:09.820 --> 00:12:12.820
to create a PACE department to run it. So our organization

00:12:12.830 --> 00:12:15.308
the Texas Pace Authority, which is a 501(c)(3)

00:12:15.320 --> 00:12:22.460
Charlene Heydinger set this organization up 2015. To

00:12:22.469 --> 00:12:25.543
provide this service, this is all we do. We support

00:12:25.553 --> 00:12:27.835
cities and counties. We don't provide the financing,

00:12:27.844 --> 00:12:29.734
we don't do the contracting, we don't do the engineering

00:12:29.744 --> 00:12:32.134
work. We work for the cities and counties to run their

00:12:32.144 --> 00:12:37.004
programs. So 68 collective years of governmental service

00:12:37.014 --> 00:12:41.024
on our team, I'm a chunk of that work. I ran the

00:12:41.033 --> 00:12:44.033
State Energy Conservation Office for 20 years, and was

00:12:44.043 --> 00:12:46.183
at the Railroad Commission for 7 years before that.

00:12:46.195 --> 00:12:49.840
So, so that's what we do, the footprint's growing. As

00:12:49.849 --> 00:12:52.038
you can see, we're in most of the most of the major

00:12:52.048 --> 00:12:55.519
urban areas, but also rural areas as well. And El Campos'

00:12:55.529 --> 00:12:57.609
not yet on the map, but it will be tomorrow.

00:13:00.950 --> 00:13:04.820
So how's this work so far. These tend to be larger projects

00:13:04.830 --> 00:13:09.779
75 projects, almost $400 million in financing very significant.

00:13:09.788 --> 00:13:13.139
Job creation, emission reduction, energy savings, natural

00:13:13.149 --> 00:13:16.908
gas, water savings. Again, the graph here very similar

00:13:16.918 --> 00:13:20.460
to the U.S. map. Is it's been hockey stick growth last

00:13:20.469 --> 00:13:27.239
year. We had 172 or 9? $172 million, which is equal to

00:13:27.250 --> 00:13:31.029
the 5 years prior combined. So people are learning

00:13:31.038 --> 00:13:34.038
about this, they're figuring out how this maps into

00:13:34.048 --> 00:13:36.529
their capital stacks. They're seeing the benefits and

00:13:36.538 --> 00:13:37.830
we're seeing good growth.

00:13:40.190 --> 00:13:43.200
So again, our role, we work with the cities and counties.

00:13:43.529 --> 00:13:46.690
I would jokingly say our job is to referee the transactions.

00:13:46.700 --> 00:13:48.950
To make sure that they all meet the requirements under

00:13:48.960 --> 00:13:51.489
state law and local program guidelines. We work with

00:13:51.500 --> 00:13:54.158
property owners, service providers, capital providers

00:13:54.288 --> 00:13:56.950
utilities. We are working with utilities, we'd like

00:13:56.960 --> 00:14:01.558
to work more with utilities in a more collaborative

00:14:01.570 --> 00:14:04.979
fashion. Because we think this is a good match for utility

00:14:04.989 --> 00:14:05.759
programs.

00:14:08.349 --> 00:14:12.029
Similar structure to the utility programs. We don't

00:14:12.038 --> 00:14:14.879
have a TRM. But we do have technical standards made

00:14:14.889 --> 00:14:17.719
very similar. We have a program guide which just like

00:14:17.729 --> 00:14:19.649
the utilities, we're going to have their own program

00:14:19.658 --> 00:14:24.009
guide. So it's a very similar structure and setting

00:14:24.019 --> 00:14:26.609
out what are the technical expectations for these projects

00:14:26.619 --> 00:14:28.989
for them to qualify. And then how do we actually run

00:14:29.000 --> 00:14:32.668
the program? So uh that's it's very similar. All this

00:14:32.678 --> 00:14:33.500
is on our website.

00:14:35.590 --> 00:14:38.769
As far as the project development process, a number

00:14:38.779 --> 00:14:43.038
of steps, again not unlike a utility project. Determining

00:14:43.048 --> 00:14:46.428
eligibility, look at the scope, selecting a lender

00:14:46.700 --> 00:14:51.029
service providers apply. Then in this case, if the

00:14:51.038 --> 00:14:54.479
property has an existing mortgage, then that senior

00:14:54.489 --> 00:14:57.548
lender provides must provide consent under state law

00:14:57.558 --> 00:15:00.219
to have a PACE loan, because this becomes a senior lien.

00:15:00.928 --> 00:15:05.168
Uh, ITPR Step 7, this is pretty important. In Texas,

00:15:05.178 --> 00:15:07.509
we have a requirement, that an independent third party

00:15:07.519 --> 00:15:10.879
reviewer review the upfront analysis. This has to

00:15:10.889 --> 00:15:14.489
be a Texas license PE with experience doing that sort

00:15:14.500 --> 00:15:17.759
of work. So there's a front end, sort of a test end

00:15:17.769 --> 00:15:20.808
front end. With loads on the financing, the project

00:15:20.820 --> 00:15:23.928
goes into construction. And then on the back side, that

00:15:23.940 --> 00:15:28.619
same ITPR verifies the installation. So controls and

00:15:28.629 --> 00:15:32.399
there are very similar to utility programs. Key underwriting

00:15:32.408 --> 00:15:36.090
criteria for PACE. We have a requirement in Texas that

00:15:36.099 --> 00:15:38.899
the SIR, the Savings to Investment Ratio be one or

00:15:38.908 --> 00:15:41.450
greater. A lot of states don't have that. We have that

00:15:41.460 --> 00:15:45.229
here. The other thing we have here which really sort

00:15:45.239 --> 00:15:50.099
of tightens, tightens the financial model and insurers

00:15:50.109 --> 00:15:52.830
for owners. These cash flow is that we include the

00:15:52.840 --> 00:15:56.269
cost of the money in our modeling. So typically if

00:15:56.279 --> 00:15:59.048
you've got a 20 year loan and the interest rate is

00:15:59.058 --> 00:16:02.298
5 or 7%. You know, half the total project cost is going to

00:16:02.308 --> 00:16:05.450
be the cost of the money. So we include that in the

00:16:05.460 --> 00:16:07.580
financing models to make sure that these cash flow

00:16:07.590 --> 00:16:11.428
for the owners, utility and operating savings can be

00:16:11.599 --> 00:16:14.869
have to be at least half of that savings component

00:16:14.879 --> 00:16:18.000
financial savings or avoided capital costs can be part

00:16:18.009 --> 00:16:21.729
of that as well. Owner buy down if the project doesn't

00:16:21.739 --> 00:16:25.599
clear SIR sometimes they don't. Then owner can contribute

00:16:25.609 --> 00:16:29.259
cash up to 50% of the project cost. That cash can be

00:16:29.269 --> 00:16:31.509
utility incentives if they're eligible. And so this

00:16:31.519 --> 00:16:34.239
is a way to really leverage and take what may be a

00:16:34.250 --> 00:16:37.109
smaller utility incentive amount and help leverage

00:16:37.119 --> 00:16:41.658
a PACE project that otherwise wouldn't clear SIR. A loan

00:16:41.668 --> 00:16:45.759
to value, PACE could be used for up to 25% of the

00:16:45.769 --> 00:16:49.119
post construction or has stabilized value of the property.

00:16:49.210 --> 00:16:51.239
So there's a limitation there so they don't get over

00:16:51.250 --> 00:16:54.479
leveraged. And again, mortgage holder consent is required

00:16:54.489 --> 00:16:55.798
if there is a mortgage.

00:16:57.460 --> 00:17:00.450
So PACE eligible projects, again the SIR the basic

00:17:00.460 --> 00:17:03.769
math. Total energy water savings or the useful life.

00:17:03.779 --> 00:17:06.338
The investment is the total financing amount including

00:17:06.348 --> 00:17:10.078
the cost of money. And in this illustration, the project

00:17:10.088 --> 00:17:14.108
cost would be a million dollars. They qualify for a

00:17:14.118 --> 00:17:17.588
utility incentive for $50,000. The projected savings

00:17:17.598 --> 00:17:22.380
is 950 over 20 years, so the SIR balances out. Without

00:17:22.390 --> 00:17:25.059
that utility incentive, it wouldn't clear. So again

00:17:25.068 --> 00:17:26.769
I think there's a, there's a really great leveraging

00:17:26.779 --> 00:17:27.578
opportunity here.

00:17:30.439 --> 00:17:33.229
The project scope on our front end technical analysis.

00:17:33.479 --> 00:17:36.549
This we have the technical standards that outline how

00:17:36.559 --> 00:17:40.009
these look. This is performed by anyone. It could be

00:17:40.019 --> 00:17:42.769
owned by the owner, a contract or an engineer. It doesn't

00:17:42.779 --> 00:17:45.670
have to be done by an engineer. If you have in your

00:17:45.680 --> 00:17:49.118
utility programs, a facility assessment offering that

00:17:49.130 --> 00:17:52.608
could serve as this front end assessment. So that could

00:17:52.618 --> 00:17:55.299
help an owner get over that first initial technical

00:17:55.309 --> 00:17:59.170
hurdle. So the two key components is or the baseline

00:17:59.180 --> 00:18:03.890
analysis, establishing baseline ashray standards for

00:18:03.900 --> 00:18:06.380
baseline analysis and the projected savings against

00:18:06.390 --> 00:18:10.279
that. That comes in a sort of a common report format

00:18:10.289 --> 00:18:13.529
that we then review. That's also reviewed first by the

00:18:13.539 --> 00:18:15.838
licensed Texas PE the ITPR.

00:18:18.170 --> 00:18:21.059
We have a workbook for this, it is an Excel spreadsheet.

00:18:21.259 --> 00:18:22.989
You've got certain fields that are locked, you've got

00:18:23.000 --> 00:18:25.318
others where you put inputs. It calculates out the

00:18:25.328 --> 00:18:28.769
SIR and so this is a common format that we like

00:18:28.779 --> 00:18:29.739
to see everyone use.

00:18:32.430 --> 00:18:35.150
Also sort of talking about opportunity.

00:18:35.170 --> 00:18:37.739
And you know, we see this hockey stick growth, but

00:18:37.750 --> 00:18:40.549
what's still out there and how much opportunity is

00:18:40.559 --> 00:18:43.729
there? Last year, the Department of Energy and the

00:18:43.739 --> 00:18:47.088
Pacific Northwest National Labs released this tool

00:18:47.098 --> 00:18:52.199
called the Energy and Building Market Assessment Tool.

00:18:52.209 --> 00:18:55.699
for a commercial pace application. And essentially

00:18:55.709 --> 00:19:00.410
What it does is it pulls in databases, co star data

00:19:00.420 --> 00:19:03.750
for commercial real estate. It looks at average age

00:19:03.759 --> 00:19:05.969
of buildings, it looks at what typical retrofit measures

00:19:05.979 --> 00:19:08.979
would be, what costs would be, what savings would be.

00:19:09.170 --> 00:19:11.650
And then it comes up with an analysis of what would

00:19:11.660 --> 00:19:15.390
be the market potential in different areas. So this

00:19:15.400 --> 00:19:18.380
can be done for any county in the state of Texas. In

00:19:18.390 --> 00:19:21.420
fact, any county in the whole country. It can be done

00:19:21.430 --> 00:19:24.529
for cities over a certain population level. I think

00:19:24.858 --> 00:19:27.009
I can't remember the the cut off but larger cities

00:19:27.019 --> 00:19:30.489
are covered. And uh it's an online tool that's free.

00:19:30.500 --> 00:19:32.930
We have it linked on our website. So you select your

00:19:32.939 --> 00:19:37.439
county or your city. You select your state and boom

00:19:37.449 --> 00:19:41.660
it runs a report. So next. And this is the output.

00:19:41.670 --> 00:19:43.709
So we serve the City of Dallas, this is what it looks

00:19:43.719 --> 00:19:46.549
like. The City of Dallas, and these are SIR greater

00:19:46.559 --> 00:19:49.799
than one project opportunities. So these are projects

00:19:49.809 --> 00:19:52.949
this accounts for cost and everything we've talked

00:19:52.959 --> 00:19:56.009
about already. So in the City of Dallas alone, there's

00:19:56.019 --> 00:20:00.769
$1.4 billion in potential PACE projects, PACE projects

00:20:00.779 --> 00:20:03.739
that have an SIR greater than one. And those result

00:20:03.750 --> 00:20:07.338
in $2 billion in life cycle savings for the projects.

00:20:07.568 --> 00:20:11.838
This does not include malls, certain health care, multi-

00:20:11.848 --> 00:20:14.828
family, because there is data limitations and no industrial.

00:20:14.959 --> 00:20:17.140
So it's very conservative if you want those others

00:20:17.150 --> 00:20:20.910
into it, and it breaks it down by measures. So square

00:20:20.920 --> 00:20:24.750
footage, wall, roof, window insulation, window replacement.

00:20:24.759 --> 00:20:31.219
Heat pumps, chillers, boilers, RTUs. I think service water,

00:20:31.229 --> 00:20:34.108
service, hot water and LEDs are the main, main measures

00:20:34.118 --> 00:20:34.380
there.

00:20:36.000 --> 00:20:39.420
So if you take that and, and extrapolate that to the

00:20:39.430 --> 00:20:42.930
whole state. Uh at least the areas we serve currently.

00:20:42.939 --> 00:20:48.358
Again 100, 100 almost 187,000 buildings that meet these

00:20:48.368 --> 00:20:54.000
criteria, 4.4 billion square feet. The project potential

00:20:54.009 --> 00:20:58.838
cost of over $15 billion project opportunity and savings

00:20:58.848 --> 00:21:02.660
of $23.5 billion. So while we've seen hockey stick

00:21:02.670 --> 00:21:05.529
growth. We really, we barely scratched the surface

00:21:05.539 --> 00:21:08.170
with the potential for energy efficiency projects.

00:21:09.588 --> 00:21:12.699
So some of the projects again, urban and rural. Every

00:21:12.709 --> 00:21:16.439
type of end use you've seen mixed use, nonprofit, hospitality.

00:21:17.328 --> 00:21:21.108
Every one of them includes energy efficiency, except

00:21:21.118 --> 00:21:24.299
for a couple that are solar only. A lot of them have

00:21:24.309 --> 00:21:27.338
water conservation, demand reduction, et cetera. The

00:21:27.348 --> 00:21:32.838
smallest project 68,000, large is 40 million. Um pay

00:21:32.848 --> 00:21:37.269
scales today scales up really well. It does not scale

00:21:37.279 --> 00:21:40.328
down really well. And so one thing we would like to

00:21:40.338 --> 00:21:44.180
learn more from you and maybe work collaboratively.

00:21:44.189 --> 00:21:47.680
Is the savings and other sort of efficiency approaches

00:21:47.689 --> 00:21:50.289
to program administration. What can be pulled into

00:21:50.299 --> 00:21:53.259
the pay standards that align with utility standards

00:21:53.269 --> 00:21:55.539
and make it easier for smaller projects to qualify.

00:21:55.949 --> 00:21:58.549
So that's something we'd like to continue that discussion.

00:21:58.920 --> 00:22:01.949
All of these have been 100% financed through.

00:22:03.689 --> 00:22:06.130
So what do they look like? This is the very first one

00:22:06.140 --> 00:22:10.219
in the state. Again, a temple in Austin. HVAC building

00:22:10.229 --> 00:22:13.469
controls window film on west facing windows. In this

00:22:13.479 --> 00:22:15.670
case, Austin Energy provided a utility incentive of

00:22:15.680 --> 00:22:21.420
$11,000 assessment total of $450, and 20% savings. Nonprofits

00:22:21.890 --> 00:22:24.539
are great with PACE, because they all have cash flow

00:22:24.549 --> 00:22:27.689
problems. And if they do have available capital that

00:22:27.699 --> 00:22:30.670
goes to their core mission not to replacing MEP system.

00:22:30.680 --> 00:22:32.289
So that's a very good,

00:22:34.170 --> 00:22:37.279
fit. Here's a conventional kind of office building, you

00:22:37.289 --> 00:22:41.930
know, late 80's. All the MEP replaced in Houston,

00:22:42.039 --> 00:22:47.660
$30,000 and incentives through CenterPoint. Assessment to $1.3 billion

00:22:47.670 --> 00:22:50.410
significant savings, 38%. When you replace really old

00:22:50.420 --> 00:22:52.189
systems, there's a big delta there.

00:22:53.868 --> 00:22:56.789
And then this is just outside of Austin. This is sort

00:22:56.799 --> 00:23:00.108
of an example of leveraging different incentives. This

00:23:00.118 --> 00:23:02.838
is a feed store, all they wanted was rooftop solar.

00:23:03.150 --> 00:23:07.140
So they were able to secure a $31,000 grant through

00:23:07.150 --> 00:23:11.568
the USDA. Incentive through Oncor and then finance

00:23:11.578 --> 00:23:15.049
the balance and their savings 28% annually. So these

00:23:15.059 --> 00:23:16.890
are all kind of smaller level projects. Again, the

00:23:16.900 --> 00:23:20.219
highest, the largest one we've done is 40 uh smaller

00:23:20.229 --> 00:23:25.709
than 68. So in summary, we think PACE is a win, win,

00:23:25.719 --> 00:23:30.578
win, win, win. Property owners obviously win. Contractors

00:23:30.588 --> 00:23:33.500
the new opportunity. A lot of times the contractor

00:23:33.509 --> 00:23:36.209
will scope a project, present it to an owner and the

00:23:36.219 --> 00:23:38.189
owner falls back and says, wow, that's a big price

00:23:38.199 --> 00:23:40.920
tag, I'll get back to you. This is a way to get

00:23:40.930 --> 00:23:44.549
across that capital hurdle. For lenders there are

00:23:44.559 --> 00:23:47.479
a host of pay specialty lenders really active in the

00:23:47.489 --> 00:23:50.920
market. There is endless private capital for these

00:23:50.930 --> 00:23:55.229
projects. There is no need for public money to be.

00:23:55.439 --> 00:23:58.328
There is the opportunity, I guess for a city or county

00:23:58.338 --> 00:24:00.588
to issue bonds and capitalize a local program, there's

00:24:00.598 --> 00:24:02.989
no need for that. There's endless, endless private

00:24:03.000 --> 00:24:07.088
capital available. From the state standpoint, and why

00:24:07.098 --> 00:24:09.868
was this something that the Legislature stood up and

00:24:09.880 --> 00:24:13.670
said was important. Helps reduce peak demand for electricity.

00:24:13.680 --> 00:24:16.529
Right through these projects, enhance grid reliability,

00:24:16.789 --> 00:24:20.150
more resilient systems. Providing incentives for distributed

00:24:20.160 --> 00:24:23.338
generation projects, water resource management. And

00:24:23.348 --> 00:24:25.650
then from a community standpoint, why would a city

00:24:25.660 --> 00:24:28.449
or county set this up? This is an economic development

00:24:28.459 --> 00:24:30.439
tool for them that doesn't cost the city or county

00:24:30.449 --> 00:24:34.489
money. It simply is kind of a conduit mechanism. It

00:24:34.500 --> 00:24:37.410
helps revitalize or build infrastructure and then it

00:24:37.420 --> 00:24:41.348
has sort of co benefits of more appealing, building

00:24:41.358 --> 00:24:45.500
stock and plants. That's what we've got today. Next.

00:24:45.630 --> 00:24:49.088
I think questions. So I think we have maybe a little

00:24:49.098 --> 00:24:52.699
time for questions. And what I would ask is that, you

00:24:52.709 --> 00:24:55.400
know, moving forward. We've sort of figured out PACE

00:24:55.410 --> 00:24:58.078
at the high end. But again, I think there's a tremendous

00:24:58.088 --> 00:25:01.203
opportunity to better partner and figure out how to

00:25:01.213 --> 00:25:04.193
make this more accessible for small projects. Small

00:25:04.203 --> 00:25:09.584
being under 500,000 or 250. And I think there's a lot

00:25:09.594 --> 00:25:12.775
of things that have been done already in the utility space. That

00:25:12.785 --> 00:25:15.203
we won't have to reinvent the wheel. We can simply

00:25:15.213 --> 00:25:16.775
borrow from some of those best practices.

00:25:19.368 --> 00:25:22.118
Yes, sir. So with the, with the utility incentives

00:25:22.130 --> 00:25:24.660
that come in. They usually can fluctuate after the

00:25:24.670 --> 00:25:28.009
post inspection. How does that affect the PACE loan

00:25:28.309 --> 00:25:33.699
if the incidents go up or down? There is usually a little

00:25:33.709 --> 00:25:38.259
head room, you know, that's in the analysis that's done. I guess

00:25:38.269 --> 00:25:40.519
at the end of the day, if it came through. The utility

00:25:40.529 --> 00:25:42.759
incentive was less than expected in the performa.

00:25:42.769 --> 00:25:46.009
Then the owner would be responsible for whatever that

00:25:46.019 --> 00:25:49.068
delta is. If it didn't clear SIR so, yeah. I think

00:25:49.078 --> 00:25:51.618
there's an adjustment phase that could happen at the

00:25:51.630 --> 00:25:55.368
end like that. But we try to build a number. We're

00:25:55.420 --> 00:25:59.000
including utility incentive in the model. Be pretty

00:25:59.009 --> 00:26:00.279
confident what that number is?

00:26:05.390 --> 00:26:06.299
Other questions?

00:26:08.729 --> 00:26:11.670
Do you have a rough estimate of how much is new construction

00:26:11.680 --> 00:26:17.328
versus major retrofits? Hm, which I'd say. New construction

00:26:17.338 --> 00:26:19.759
is definitely on the rise, but I would say retrofit

00:26:19.769 --> 00:26:24.880
60% at this point at least. And for new construction

00:26:25.259 --> 00:26:29.729
the qualification there. Is that it cannot be a total

00:26:29.739 --> 00:26:32.588
green field. There has to be some improvement on the

00:26:32.598 --> 00:26:35.699
land that shows that it's, it's been developed and

00:26:35.709 --> 00:26:37.598
that, that improvement is recognized by the Central

00:26:37.608 --> 00:26:41.130
Appraisal District. At that point, if an owner is planning

00:26:41.140 --> 00:26:45.709
to build a building to code. They'd have to go at least

00:26:45.719 --> 00:26:48.729
5% greater than code, minimum code requirements, local

00:26:48.739 --> 00:26:53.969
code on average to qualify for PACE. And we look at

00:26:53.979 --> 00:26:57.969
to qualify the project, we look at the uh the delta

00:26:57.979 --> 00:27:02.289
between. The code versus the improved and the same thing

00:27:02.299 --> 00:27:05.068
with the cost. So sort of the same way, same way you're

00:27:05.078 --> 00:27:06.068
doing building programs.

00:27:07.618 --> 00:27:11.959
From that case, are you modeling the post (inaudible) conditions?

00:27:12.630 --> 00:27:15.250
Is that done by the, the (inaudible) engineer or

00:27:17.059 --> 00:27:20.640
so? Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's really, so the modeling

00:27:20.650 --> 00:27:23.818
is done initially by the owner of the owner's contractor.

00:27:23.828 --> 00:27:27.328
But then it's reviewed by the third party reviewer

00:27:27.338 --> 00:27:29.108
of the Texas license PE. Yes.

00:27:31.209 --> 00:27:33.959
Dub, if we have questions on the technical standards manual

00:27:33.969 --> 00:27:37.500
after reviewing it, who would we go to? You can contact

00:27:37.509 --> 00:27:39.459
me. I've got a, I got a card. We're easy to find.

00:27:39.469 --> 00:27:43.410
Yes, yeah. And we do update just like the TRM.

00:27:43.568 --> 00:27:47.180
We update these documents. The, the uh technical standards

00:27:47.189 --> 00:27:52.959
were updated in 2021. Yes. And our program

00:27:52.969 --> 00:27:55.588
guide in 2022. And so we're constantly reviewing and

00:27:55.598 --> 00:27:58.969
trying to update and make those both used. More user

00:27:58.979 --> 00:28:01.338
friendly but to sort of pull in experience and, and

00:28:01.348 --> 00:28:02.318
best practices.

00:28:04.539 --> 00:28:07.828
Charlene? I just wanted to add. Uh in December, we got approval

00:28:07.838 --> 00:28:12.289
from HUD to use this program with FHA and HUD

00:28:12.299 --> 00:28:15.739
multi-family properties. So very interested in working

00:28:15.750 --> 00:28:21.920
with you on any projects. To, to help lower-income housing.

00:28:22.519 --> 00:28:26.739
Also, we would love to find a way to help work with

00:28:26.750 --> 00:28:29.449
you to promote this program. Somebody's coming in asking

00:28:29.459 --> 00:28:33.920
for utilities incentives. If they also need additional

00:28:33.930 --> 00:28:37.608
capital for the rest of the project. We are, we are

00:28:37.618 --> 00:28:40.598
available. It's a great program that not enough people

00:28:40.608 --> 00:28:43.289
know about. So if there's a way to collaborate with

00:28:43.299 --> 00:28:47.078
you on, on uh uh serving your customers. We would love

00:28:47.088 --> 00:28:47.680
to do that.

00:28:52.939 --> 00:28:56.868
And I'll be around. (inaudible) Is there anything different that you do if it's a USDA

00:28:57.699 --> 00:29:01.449
or HUD, versus the other (inaudible)? So the statute requires that if there's

00:29:01.459 --> 00:29:04.059
a senior lender, you have to get their written consent.

00:29:04.068 --> 00:29:07.959
And so think of Hud and USDA as, as the senior lender.

00:29:08.358 --> 00:29:11.949
And so we, it took 6 years, but we got HUD's permission.

00:29:12.209 --> 00:29:14.979
I'm told by our counterparts in other states that USDA

00:29:14.989 --> 00:29:18.068
is a little bit easier to work with. And we have had

00:29:18.078 --> 00:29:21.920
one project, a benefit from USDA roof grant. We haven't

00:29:21.930 --> 00:29:24.848
had a chance yet to be in a situation where we need

00:29:24.900 --> 00:29:27.269
we need their consent, because they've given a loan.

00:29:27.608 --> 00:29:31.068
But I'm confident we can figure that out. That each

00:29:31.078 --> 00:29:34.180
each group is a little bit different. Um we're currently

00:29:34.189 --> 00:29:37.059
on a mission to get SBA. I'm sorry. Okay.

00:29:37.098 --> 00:29:39.618
so is it a forever of consent or is it project by

00:29:39.729 --> 00:29:42.670
project? It's always gonna be project. Every consent is

00:29:42.680 --> 00:29:43.989
gonna be project based.

00:29:47.650 --> 00:29:51.299
Thank you. I'll be around at least till lunch, maybe

00:29:51.309 --> 00:29:53.299
through the afternoon. So if you have other questions

00:29:53.309 --> 00:29:56.239
come back from me and happy to answer those and talking

00:29:56.250 --> 00:29:58.630
about this. So again, thanks for the opportunity. Thank

00:29:58.729 --> 00:29:59.279
you Dub. Thank you.

00:30:03.459 --> 00:30:07.479
All right. So we are gonna start with the uh non ERCOT

00:30:07.489 --> 00:30:10.108
utilities. So, um

00:30:12.469 --> 00:30:16.338
(inaudible) Sorry. You guys know who's on

00:30:16.348 --> 00:30:20.250
the hot seat (inaudible). I do that. Um, Mark

00:30:20.259 --> 00:30:23.029
Entergy, because I don't think El Paso is quite here

00:30:23.039 --> 00:30:23.390
yet.

00:30:25.219 --> 00:30:28.250
No. So they may end up going last. Yes,

00:30:34.430 --> 00:30:35.160
that's fine.

00:30:38.189 --> 00:30:40.519
So I just need to pass forward, past El Paso's.

00:30:43.410 --> 00:30:44.509
There we go. There we go.

00:30:48.170 --> 00:30:50.979
Hello everybody. (item:4:38578, Mark with Entergy TX discusses their new programs) My name is Mark (inaudible). I am with Entergy

00:30:50.989 --> 00:30:54.689
Texas We have a brand new sneaker logo, it's uh marroon.

00:30:58.098 --> 00:31:00.799
Well, I work in our Energy (inaudible) Department. I've

00:31:00.809 --> 00:31:05.709
been with Entergy for 5 years. My claim to fame is my first day at Entergy was when Harvey hit.

00:31:05.719 --> 00:31:09.630
So I got to see firsthand. What it was like to do storms in a major hurricane.

00:31:10.009 --> 00:31:12.848
And I'm the new commercial side, I manage commercial

00:31:12.858 --> 00:31:14.838
solutions. The Market Transformation program, the Load

00:31:14.848 --> 00:31:17.489
Management Program on the commercial side. And I also

00:31:17.500 --> 00:31:20.239
run the residential solutions, which is our new home

00:31:20.358 --> 00:31:20.500
building.

00:31:22.979 --> 00:31:25.660
Right. So for our budget for 2023 we're looking to

00:31:25.670 --> 00:31:27.939
stay at about $8 million. We've been very consistent

00:31:27.949 --> 00:31:30.920
in our budgets year over year. Our goal has been staying

00:31:30.930 --> 00:31:33.309
relatively constant for about 10 years now. So we've

00:31:33.318 --> 00:31:36.250
been able to fine tune our incentives and our admin

00:31:36.358 --> 00:31:39.009
and we keep it kind of leveled and consistent. So we're

00:31:39.019 --> 00:31:41.088
going to stay very consistent with what we did last

00:31:41.098 --> 00:31:43.729
year and kind of save it on the $8 million. Uh this

00:31:43.739 --> 00:31:46.989
year, we are working on um a new pilot program. So

00:31:47.000 --> 00:31:49.380
we did increase our R&D this particular year. We

00:31:49.390 --> 00:31:51.299
kind of incorporate the new pilot (inaudible).

00:31:53.618 --> 00:31:57.068
So we run 5 major programs at Entergy Texas on the commercial

00:31:57.078 --> 00:31:59.449
side. We have the commercial solutions program and

00:31:59.459 --> 00:32:01.838
the Load (inaudible) program. On the residential side

00:32:01.848 --> 00:32:04.739
we have our residential standard offer program, as well

00:32:04.750 --> 00:32:07.348
as our residential solution program. That is managed

00:32:07.358 --> 00:32:09.539
by TRC. And then we also have a hard to

00:32:09.549 --> 00:32:12.209
reach program which is a standard offer program that

00:32:12.219 --> 00:32:15.539
we. It's a carbon program to our residential standard

00:32:15.549 --> 00:32:18.660
offer. They offer the same contract, they same incentives

00:32:18.670 --> 00:32:21.368
and for, for residential customers.

00:32:23.739 --> 00:32:26.890
So the way that we like to incorporate our pilot programs

00:32:26.900 --> 00:32:29.709
is we like to put them in under our umbrella. So we've

00:32:29.719 --> 00:32:31.709
been really trying to expand our offerings and our

00:32:31.719 --> 00:32:34.630
commercial solutions program and our residential solution

00:32:34.640 --> 00:32:36.858
program. So the commercial side, what we've been trying

00:32:36.868 --> 00:32:38.630
to do is we've been trying to focus more on the HVAC 

00:32:38.650 --> 00:32:41.838
side of our customers. We've been incorporating a

00:32:41.848 --> 00:32:45.229
new tune-up program through proposal called Cool Saver. And we've

00:32:45.239 --> 00:32:47.858
been able to offer this to a select number of commercial

00:32:47.868 --> 00:32:50.108
customers. We'll be able to offer these tune-ups at

00:32:50.170 --> 00:32:52.930
no cost to the customer. We saw a lot of great success

00:32:52.939 --> 00:32:54.799
with this program over the number of years and we've

00:32:54.809 --> 00:32:56.868
been able to increase our customer accounts in our

00:32:57.059 --> 00:32:59.469
budget for this program. We saw a lot of success with

00:32:59.479 --> 00:33:02.910
schools. Schools have a ton of (inaudible) units ranging from

00:33:02.969 --> 00:33:07.078
small 3 tons up to larger 15 to 20 ton units. And

00:33:07.088 --> 00:33:09.250
so we've been able to go to these rural school districts.

00:33:09.259 --> 00:33:12.358
That are kind of on the edges of our service territory.

00:33:12.608 --> 00:33:14.660
And we've been able to offer tune-ups for every single

00:33:14.670 --> 00:33:17.739
one of their units in the school district. We saw a

00:33:17.750 --> 00:33:20.598
lot of success with Somerville ISD and (inaudible) ISD.

00:33:20.680 --> 00:33:24.670
Smaller districts that we, we don't get to have a lot

00:33:24.680 --> 00:33:26.769
of great touch points with. And we've been able to

00:33:26.779 --> 00:33:28.900
offer these and we were actually able to incorporate

00:33:28.910 --> 00:33:31.098
other projects in the program. For example, Trinity

00:33:31.250 --> 00:33:33.568
ISD, we were going to offer the Cool Saver Tuneup

00:33:33.578 --> 00:33:36.088
and that allowed us to do lighting retrofit. We

00:33:36.098 --> 00:33:38.489
also did it with Normangee ISD and also the

00:33:38.500 --> 00:33:40.949
future projects in the program. So this has been a

00:33:40.959 --> 00:33:43.390
really great um (inaudible) commercial solutions. To be able

00:33:43.400 --> 00:33:46.598
to offer this kind of first positive touch point that

00:33:46.608 --> 00:33:51.880
leads to more projects (inaudible). We've

00:33:51.890 --> 00:33:54.699
also been trying to look ramp up our midstream program.

00:33:54.709 --> 00:33:56.739
We have a lighting mixture program that's been running

00:33:56.750 --> 00:33:59.848
for about 6 years now. We saw a ton of great success

00:33:59.880 --> 00:34:02.910
with lighting midstream, being able to touch more customers

00:34:02.920 --> 00:34:05.640
and kind of duplicate ourselves rather than myself

00:34:05.650 --> 00:34:08.110
and the (inaudible) team. And we wanted to start doing that at

00:34:08.119 --> 00:34:10.269
HVAC as well. So we've been trying to pilot an HVAC

00:34:10.280 --> 00:34:13.250
retrofit program. Our midstream program where we're

00:34:13.260 --> 00:34:16.228
able to use distributors to reach much more touch points

00:34:16.239 --> 00:34:18.668
and, and help our customers more on the HVAC side of the

00:34:18.679 --> 00:34:22.610
business. And then on Load Management, we have a great

00:34:22.619 --> 00:34:24.500
Load Management program. We've had the consistence

00:34:24.510 --> 00:34:26.280
customers here every year and I'm looking to kind of

00:34:26.289 --> 00:34:28.789
grow that. And get a few more participants to try to

00:34:28.800 --> 00:34:30.809
grow our Load Management program on the commercial

00:34:30.820 --> 00:34:34.349
side. So that we can actually uh help more customers

00:34:34.360 --> 00:34:37.759
when it comes to the peak shading. And then also Entergy

00:34:37.768 --> 00:34:41.018
we're looking to offer more products and services outside

00:34:41.028 --> 00:34:43.239
of this energy efficiency. We've been really pushing

00:34:43.367 --> 00:34:46.039
to kind of innovate in that area. We offer new programs

00:34:46.048 --> 00:34:48.628
like Green Select or Green Future Option. Green Select

00:34:48.637 --> 00:34:51.088
is where you're able to use part of your energy and

00:34:51.099 --> 00:34:54.250
you're able to buy renewable credits from that. So

00:34:54.260 --> 00:34:55.849
you're able to say that more of your power is coming

00:34:55.860 --> 00:34:59.219
from renewable sources rather than conventional sources. And the Green

00:34:59.228 --> 00:35:01.789
Future Option is also a type of solar program where

00:35:01.800 --> 00:35:04.280
you get to buy into a piece of solar asset that Entergy

00:35:04.418 --> 00:35:07.478
has. And you get a share of the revenue from that. And

00:35:07.489 --> 00:35:09.179
so what I like to do is I want to try and

00:35:09.188 --> 00:35:11.869
incorporate all these products and services together.

00:35:11.878 --> 00:35:15.110
To create more of an ecosystem rather than a silo system.

00:35:15.119 --> 00:35:17.599
And so trying to connect these positive touch points

00:35:17.610 --> 00:35:19.409
with our customer is something we're looking to do

00:35:19.418 --> 00:35:22.590
as we grow in our energy efficiency and outside of

00:35:22.610 --> 00:35:25.378
the energy efficiency. Now, on the residential side

00:35:25.389 --> 00:35:27.199
We've been really innovative. We've really tried to

00:35:27.208 --> 00:35:30.090
kind of push the envelope in the residential solutions department.

00:35:30.159 --> 00:35:33.039
We've been offering two new pilot programs. We're looking

00:35:33.050 --> 00:35:35.840
at launching an online marketplace, but we're looking

00:35:35.849 --> 00:35:38.239
to launch it here in the next quarter. And then we're

00:35:38.250 --> 00:35:41.208
also looking to do a residential Load management program in the

00:35:41.219 --> 00:35:43.889
sector. Where we're gonna be targeting thermostats first.

00:35:43.898 --> 00:35:46.030
But then we're working with a particular energy partner

00:35:46.039 --> 00:35:48.829
and energy hub. Where we able to connect more and more

00:35:48.849 --> 00:35:51.583
devices including, you know, backup generators, heat

00:35:51.594 --> 00:35:54.224
pump, water heaters, and more devices so that we can

00:35:54.235 --> 00:35:57.364
kind of grow a more bigger portfolio, a residential

00:35:57.375 --> 00:35:59.724
building. And so these are really been the two big

00:35:59.735 --> 00:36:01.655
focuses that we've been working on for the past two

00:36:01.664 --> 00:36:04.414
years now. And we're really trying to grow those sectors

00:36:04.425 --> 00:36:07.215
first before we can do any more pilot buildings. And

00:36:07.224 --> 00:36:09.394
once we get these off the ground, we will expand those

00:36:09.405 --> 00:36:12.155
and grow those and continue to offer more products

00:36:12.164 --> 00:36:14.103
and services through energy efficiency department.

00:36:15.019 --> 00:36:17.250
And uh another thing of what we're trying to do is

00:36:17.260 --> 00:36:19.510
again, going back to that ecosystem of project where

00:36:19.519 --> 00:36:22.079
we want to create multiple positive touch points with

00:36:22.090 --> 00:36:24.389
the customer. And trying to get the customers if they

00:36:24.398 --> 00:36:27.340
participate in one program. To make sure that they know

00:36:27.349 --> 00:36:29.659
about the other programs that we know. For example

00:36:29.668 --> 00:36:33.519
if a customer gets a residential standard offer program.

00:36:33.530 --> 00:36:35.280
Someone comes and puts ceiling installation in the

00:36:35.289 --> 00:36:38.208
house. We want to create lead behinds to where like

00:36:38.219 --> 00:36:41.019
hey, you can also get your A/C unit tuned up. Here's

00:36:41.030 --> 00:36:43.360
how you do that. Or if you get, if you do a

00:36:43.369 --> 00:36:47.449
new house in uh our new homes program, well, after

00:36:47.458 --> 00:36:49.889
a year that A/C unit is eligible for a Cool Saver plan.

00:36:50.329 --> 00:36:52.898
To making sure that the customers knows this is kind

00:36:52.909 --> 00:36:54.679
of the next step and this is the next thing you can

00:36:54.688 --> 00:36:57.889
do to help your home become more energy efficient.

00:36:57.898 --> 00:37:00.559
So trying to create more of an ecosystem where these

00:37:00.570 --> 00:37:03.010
programs feed into each other. Is what we're really

00:37:03.019 --> 00:37:05.628
looking to try to grow our energy efficiency here in Texas.

00:37:07.559 --> 00:37:08.228
Any questions?

00:37:13.938 --> 00:37:16.750
Awesome, yes. Sorry. (inaudible). So on the on

00:37:16.760 --> 00:37:21.418
the Cool Saving program, what is so the first year basically

00:37:21.429 --> 00:37:24.909
after the install. It just kind of go, there's nothing

00:37:24.918 --> 00:37:27.409
done. Then after a year after the install, somebody

00:37:27.418 --> 00:37:30.878
comes in and does the tune-up. They're eligible for for

00:37:30.889 --> 00:37:34.139
the tune-up. If somebody comes in and does the tune-up

00:37:34.148 --> 00:37:37.570
do they look at like a manual j or anything that comes

00:37:37.579 --> 00:37:39.958
in with the need to make sure that the unit is sized

00:37:39.969 --> 00:37:43.369
properly from that? I don't believe we lose sizing

00:37:43.378 --> 00:37:45.619
it. I know they check pressures and temperatures and

00:37:45.628 --> 00:37:49.250
they get one gallon of refrigerant free. If there's

00:37:49.260 --> 00:37:50.989
any additional maintenance or the things that have

00:37:51.000 --> 00:37:53.128
to be done to the unit, the contractor will let the

00:37:53.139 --> 00:37:55.530
customer know if there's an additional charge about

00:37:55.628 --> 00:37:58.159
that. But the great thing about our courting the program

00:37:58.168 --> 00:38:00.530
commercially and residentially is it is at no cost

00:38:00.539 --> 00:38:02.909
to the customer, which is what we really love about

00:38:02.918 --> 00:38:05.809
And we've been able to see and it grows an increase

00:38:05.820 --> 00:38:08.179
in our residential sector. We've been able to really

00:38:08.188 --> 00:38:10.639
grow our, our contractor participation. And we're,

00:38:10.648 --> 00:38:12.958
we're looking at getting contractors in the areas that

00:38:12.969 --> 00:38:16.070
we want to serve. We've really focused on, on Beaumont

00:38:16.079 --> 00:38:18.530
sector. So the east side of our service territory,

00:38:18.539 --> 00:38:20.179
we've been able to get a number of contractors out

00:38:20.188 --> 00:38:22.769
there. And we're actually seeing a big increase in

00:38:22.780 --> 00:38:25.909
growth in participation in the East Side. And because

00:38:25.918 --> 00:38:27.929
it used to be a majority on the West side that we've

00:38:27.938 --> 00:38:29.889
been able to kind of distribute the contractors,

00:38:31.978 --> 00:38:34.250
but I don't believe they check for the right size.

00:38:37.449 --> 00:38:41.260
So how do you find out? So we do have a website

00:38:41.269 --> 00:38:43.478
we, we have a website where customers can go and we

00:38:43.489 --> 00:38:46.619
have our call center, our call center s us information

00:38:46.628 --> 00:38:51.438
about efficiency all the time. Um We also just have

00:38:51.449 --> 00:38:53.289
the grassroots with the contractors. That's what I

00:38:53.300 --> 00:38:56.250
really like about our history program. And our program

00:38:56.409 --> 00:38:59.099
is that allow us to duplicate that and they can go

00:38:59.110 --> 00:39:02.188
off and serve customers and then we just get the reports

00:39:02.199 --> 00:39:04.958
back on, on what they did. So there's many different

00:39:04.969 --> 00:39:07.289
ways that the customers can do it we have online marketing

00:39:08.250 --> 00:39:10.719
as well. So there's a, there's a lot of different ways

00:39:10.728 --> 00:39:11.789
that customers can do them

00:39:14.030 --> 00:39:15.070
if you're interested. I think

00:39:20.938 --> 00:39:21.719
any other questions.

00:39:23.719 --> 00:39:26.610
Um, I would just note so you didn't touch much on your

00:39:26.619 --> 00:39:29.269
new homes program. Because it's in, within your residential

00:39:29.280 --> 00:39:32.409
solution. But I think that's where you've had considerable

00:39:32.418 --> 00:39:35.760
success. Getting more age back into new homes. You

00:39:35.780 --> 00:39:39.550
like an increased incentive. Yes. So, I'll talk about

00:39:39.559 --> 00:39:41.409
that a little bit and I can't take credit for it. It's

00:39:41.418 --> 00:39:45.840
really the T R C team that we've, we've kind of changed

00:39:45.849 --> 00:39:47.719
our model with new homes rather than doing an energy

00:39:47.728 --> 00:39:50.159
model for every single home. We're doing kind of like

00:39:50.168 --> 00:39:53.309
a hybrid programming where it is connected to the S

00:39:53.559 --> 00:39:57.030
ID. So the S ID has like a predetermined list of what

00:39:57.039 --> 00:39:58.918
the energy efficiency is for the house. And we use

00:39:58.929 --> 00:40:01.599
that ID and we plug it into our kind of prescriptive

00:40:01.610 --> 00:40:04.510
model and they get so many dollars based on the piece

00:40:04.519 --> 00:40:07.139
of equipment they install. And so this allows us to

00:40:07.148 --> 00:40:09.179
put more HVAC back in there. Because it's almost a very

00:40:09.188 --> 00:40:11.760
prescriptive amount. And then there's an ADER and it's

00:40:11.769 --> 00:40:13.679
a (inaudible) pump. So they put in a (inaudible) pump it so

00:40:13.688 --> 00:40:16.688
three times a multiplier on the incentive and it is

00:40:16.699 --> 00:40:20.128
based per time on the efficiency. So it's kind of this

00:40:20.139 --> 00:40:22.929
hybrid model that's been pioneered by TRC and we've

00:40:22.938 --> 00:40:26.099
really been very proud of it. We've been able to see

00:40:26.110 --> 00:40:28.628
a lot of, of growth in that program and uh we got

00:40:28.659 --> 00:40:33.148
100% on (inaudible). We were very, we so when we

00:40:33.159 --> 00:40:35.429
did like build our interviews, everyone's like, you

00:40:35.438 --> 00:40:37.994
know, people hear more about granite countertops and

00:40:38.215 --> 00:40:41.333
more efficient HVAC. So we kind of made that recommendation

00:40:41.344 --> 00:40:44.394
and it was great to see so much success that he has

00:40:44.405 --> 00:40:47.394
been able to do. Of getting more efficient HVAC in

00:40:47.485 --> 00:40:50.664
home. So I just, you did really great work. So I didn't

00:40:50.764 --> 00:40:53.014
want this opportunity to take that out

00:40:54.659 --> 00:40:59.030
and (inaudible). And they've been the ones pioneering

00:40:59.039 --> 00:41:00.780
this, I just write the check.

00:41:05.139 --> 00:41:05.989
Any other questions?

00:41:09.369 --> 00:41:11.239
Awesome. Thank you for your time. Thank you, Mark.

00:41:11.409 --> 00:41:11.909
Thank you.

00:41:16.590 --> 00:41:20.050
Jeremy. I think you're next. I think Xcel is next. Yeah, yeah.

00:41:21.159 --> 00:41:22.639
Well, it's actually gonna be Derek today,

00:41:26.539 --> 00:41:26.978
Derek (inaudible). Yeah, that would be great. Come on up Derek.

00:41:29.050 --> 00:41:32.340
I'm gonna take some notes. I'm not gonna, do

00:41:32.349 --> 00:41:32.789
was well as he did.

00:41:35.329 --> 00:41:37.820
I'm gonna stand right here too (inaudible). We're a friendly crowd.

00:41:46.469 --> 00:41:49.800
(item:4.1:38578, Derek Wood with Xcel Energy discussing their programs) I'm Derek Wood. I'm with Xcel Energy. This is been about

00:41:49.809 --> 00:41:53.050
my nearly been there a year as product manager. So bear

00:41:53.059 --> 00:41:56.139
with me on the questions, a little bit. But yeah, I'm

00:41:56.148 --> 00:41:57.809
just gonna kind of talk about a few of the highlights

00:41:57.820 --> 00:41:59.619
from the past year and kind of what we got going on

00:41:59.628 --> 00:41:59.949
this year.

00:42:02.590 --> 00:42:05.878
So 2023 projections are staying pretty much the same

00:42:05.889 --> 00:42:11.269
as '22. Uh we got a total budget about $4.5 million. Um,

00:42:11.699 --> 00:42:15.329
R&D stay about the same $160,000 in total savings

00:42:15.340 --> 00:42:17.398
about 22, $23 million.

00:42:20.760 --> 00:42:24.878
'24, '25 Potential programs. Uh commercial. We got large

00:42:24.889 --> 00:42:27.559
commercial SLP retro commissioning, Load Management,

00:42:27.570 --> 00:42:31.219
small commercial. Um we have a few outfitters that run some

00:42:31.228 --> 00:42:33.300
of our programs. Frontier being one of them. They run

00:42:33.309 --> 00:42:37.128
our small commercial, uh low-income weatherization.

00:42:37.820 --> 00:42:40.898
Uh I oversee the large commercial on the residential

00:42:40.909 --> 00:42:44.050
side, oversee the residential SOP smart thermostats

00:42:44.510 --> 00:42:48.148
and as well as our hard. Excuse me. Our hard to reach

00:42:48.159 --> 00:42:49.918
program on the low-income side.

00:42:53.708 --> 00:42:55.780
So some of our highlights from this year and not gonna

00:42:55.789 --> 00:42:59.320
write a few notes to talk about it. Uh Xcel Energy uh in

00:42:59.329 --> 00:43:02.090
my position, I perform the pre and post inspections.

00:43:02.099 --> 00:43:04.489
I don't know how most other utilities do that. But

00:43:04.829 --> 00:43:07.909
it's a really rewarding part of my job. Because I get

00:43:07.918 --> 00:43:10.820
to go out there and actually interact with the customers.

00:43:11.199 --> 00:43:14.860
Um some of the places I've been this past year. Was

00:43:14.869 --> 00:43:17.579
I did some pre and post inspections at the Randall County

00:43:17.668 --> 00:43:20.329
Jail in McKinney, Texas got to go through that. See some

00:43:20.340 --> 00:43:25.030
nice places. Also uh Texas Panhandle Centers, which

00:43:25.039 --> 00:43:27.769
is a really cool place opportunity. So they kind of

00:43:27.780 --> 00:43:31.260
house kids with or adults with disabilities and what

00:43:31.269 --> 00:43:34.188
not. So just the more rewarding part of the job you

00:43:34.199 --> 00:43:37.360
get to see people meet people that you normally wouldn't.

00:43:37.780 --> 00:43:42.000
Also, we did a big lighting retrofit for United Grocery

00:43:42.010 --> 00:43:46.800
Store, which is in kind of (inaudible) areas., Lubbock areas.

00:43:48.458 --> 00:43:51.269
Had a little news release off of it. And United Grocery

00:43:51.280 --> 00:43:54.099
Stores actually, after we did one retrofit. They're

00:43:54.110 --> 00:43:56.590
going through all the United stores and Xcel Energy. And doing

00:43:56.628 --> 00:44:02.079
a live retrofit since generated so much savings for

00:44:02.090 --> 00:44:05.128
them as well as lower their electric bill. Um,

00:44:06.800 --> 00:44:09.168
the same kind of thing on our hard to reach residential

00:44:09.179 --> 00:44:10.769
programs. I'm the one that goes out there and does

00:44:10.780 --> 00:44:13.579
the pre and post inspections on those. So I'm actually

00:44:13.590 --> 00:44:17.449
getting to meet the customers face to face and seeing

00:44:17.458 --> 00:44:20.478
the measures take place. Which is again, really rewarding.

00:44:20.579 --> 00:44:22.519
You know, I'm getting to see the customers to see how

00:44:22.530 --> 00:44:25.539
much everything means to them. From the installation

00:44:25.550 --> 00:44:28.469
of their homes to, you know, ducks in whatever we do.

00:44:28.478 --> 00:44:30.099
You know, it's just really nice to go out there and

00:44:30.110 --> 00:44:31.938
see them and see how much the program actually means

00:44:31.949 --> 00:44:33.050
to them in person.

00:44:34.760 --> 00:44:37.019
Um this is a kind of a cool event, we have going

00:44:37.030 --> 00:44:40.019
on this year. Xcel Energy uh home lighting and the Sod Poodles.

00:44:40.030 --> 00:44:42.250
So home Lighting program, we have a I don't know if

00:44:42.260 --> 00:44:46.228
anybody knows what the Sod Poodle is. It's uh basically

00:44:46.239 --> 00:44:51.610
an old term for a prairie dog. So, Amarillo uh has

00:44:51.619 --> 00:44:54.289
a minor league baseball team called the Amarillo Sod Poodles.

00:44:54.300 --> 00:44:57.280
And they're in association with, I believe the Arizona

00:44:57.289 --> 00:45:02.519
Diamondbacks. Um so what I think this event is planned

00:45:02.530 --> 00:45:05.128
in August. What we're gonna do is give out about 3,000

00:45:05.139 --> 00:45:07.829
to 5,000 bulbs at the game to all the customers. Xcel

00:45:08.090 --> 00:45:12.070
Energy has a sponsorship with Amarillo Sod Poodles. So really looking forward to

00:45:12.079 --> 00:45:14.000
that event. I think it's gonna generate some really

00:45:14.010 --> 00:45:19.340
good savings for us. Um another thing, uh Xcel Energy Food

00:45:19.349 --> 00:45:22.550
Bank success. Uh kind of wrote some things down on this

00:45:22.559 --> 00:45:27.378
one. Uh we partnered with several churches, High Plains

00:45:27.389 --> 00:45:31.978
Food Banks. Um a lot of different outfitters around

00:45:32.239 --> 00:45:36.289
Amarillo to give out. We gave out 100,000 bulbs and

00:45:36.300 --> 00:45:39.898
25,000 night lights uh with our Food Bank program.

00:45:39.909 --> 00:45:45.199
So that was a really big success. Uh and then kind

00:45:45.208 --> 00:45:48.239
of our R&D budget this year. We have a couple

00:45:48.250 --> 00:45:52.168
of programs. We have uh school kids, which we kind

00:45:52.179 --> 00:45:56.099
of give the teachers some form of um criteria to discuss

00:45:56.110 --> 00:46:00.039
their students with grade students. They pass out faucet

00:46:00.128 --> 00:46:04.929
aerators and as well as led light bulbs. And then the

00:46:04.938 --> 00:46:07.168
Residential Codes program is something that we're kind

00:46:07.179 --> 00:46:10.860
of working on now and working on to file for '24. In

00:46:10.869 --> 00:46:13.668
that program, one part we're trying to do is influence

00:46:13.679 --> 00:46:17.869
city officials, architects, um contractors. To build

00:46:18.280 --> 00:46:20.469
more up to code and hold them to a higher standard.

00:46:22.478 --> 00:46:24.889
That's really all I had. If anybody has any questions?

00:46:29.070 --> 00:46:32.030
Yes sir. I'm curious about the Codes program. Um do

00:46:32.039 --> 00:46:35.378
you have any information on sort of on how you plan

00:46:35.389 --> 00:46:38.559
to detail like the baseline versus high-efficiency

00:46:38.570 --> 00:46:42.969
conditions, with that type of program, I believe, Jeremy. So, we've

00:46:42.978 --> 00:46:45.188
actually been working with Tetra Tech quite a bit on this. Uh

00:46:45.199 --> 00:46:48.369
I don't have the exact (inaudible) working with third

00:46:48.378 --> 00:46:51.289
parties, uh, throughout all of our jurisdictions. Um

00:46:51.300 --> 00:46:54.148
but I think we've got that for the rest of we're commercial.

00:46:54.159 --> 00:46:58.079
We have (inaudible) approved it yet. Still working with them on some

00:46:58.090 --> 00:47:00.889
building codes and stuff. So we do have it for residential.

00:47:01.329 --> 00:47:03.628
So are you looking to like sort of map each individual

00:47:03.639 --> 00:47:05.898
jurisdiction, like within your service territory on

00:47:05.909 --> 00:47:09.760
like what the standard condition is? It's more of a

00:47:09.769 --> 00:47:13.500
more of an education type program. So educating, working

00:47:13.510 --> 00:47:15.500
with, you know, folks on the ground there. And I think

00:47:15.510 --> 00:47:18.148
they are doing a mapping to kind of build the baseline.

00:47:18.159 --> 00:47:21.139
But I'm not exactly sure what exactly (inaudible)

00:47:21.250 --> 00:47:22.610
can get you in touch with me

00:47:25.449 --> 00:47:28.599
(inaudible). And Jeremy. I think we got the residential in the 

00:47:28.610 --> 00:47:33.010
TRM Volume 5? It is the only thing that we're still

00:47:33.019 --> 00:47:35.750
working on. But yeah, we'll launch residential codes

00:47:36.019 --> 00:47:38.708
uh in '23. We received approval from the Commission last

00:47:38.719 --> 00:47:43.168
year. So if you're interested, there's more information

00:47:43.179 --> 00:47:44.119
while you buy.

00:47:46.949 --> 00:47:51.519
Anyone else? Can you, um can you speak to the, how

00:47:51.530 --> 00:47:54.079
the R&D effort for school kids from hard to reach

00:47:54.090 --> 00:47:58.378
areas? Is that 2023-2024? And how do you consider that

00:47:58.389 --> 00:48:03.378
as a pilot as opposed to a program? Yeah. So we, at

00:48:03.659 --> 00:48:06.228
this time, we run school kids in a lot of our other

00:48:06.239 --> 00:48:11.128
jurisdictions. And we, with the addition of presidential

00:48:11.139 --> 00:48:13.869
codes. We didn't wanna add another program in just

00:48:13.878 --> 00:48:17.110
yet. We didn't have a lot of data virtual kits. We

00:48:17.119 --> 00:48:22.179
had actually started in R&D last year. Um I think

00:48:22.188 --> 00:48:25.199
we'll probably keep it in R&D for one more year.

00:48:25.208 --> 00:48:28.030
With the idea of looking at some of our hard to reach

00:48:28.039 --> 00:48:32.239
so classrooms that are, you know, private or, you know

00:48:32.250 --> 00:48:35.760
school classrooms types of situations. Um looking at

00:48:35.769 --> 00:48:37.449
some of those hard to reach areas with the vendor.

00:48:37.458 --> 00:48:41.139
But I think it will come out as far as, you know

00:48:41.148 --> 00:48:43.458
we're not planning for savings for it. That's why we're

00:48:43.469 --> 00:48:46.320
keeping it in R and D. I think, you know, the question

00:48:46.329 --> 00:48:48.179
we have internally is whether we would want to run

00:48:48.188 --> 00:48:50.000
it as a pilot or just go ahead and launch it as

00:48:50.010 --> 00:48:51.849
a program and when we have a lot of success in some

00:48:51.860 --> 00:48:54.260
of the other states. And I think next year in '25, you'll

00:48:54.269 --> 00:48:57.119
see it just launch as a, as a program. Okay. I, I

00:48:57.128 --> 00:49:02.599
guess I the hard to reach, I automatically but that's how.

00:49:03.239 --> 00:49:05.789
No, I think there is a component of it that we want

00:49:05.800 --> 00:49:08.019
to try to, you know, we've got like the main school

00:49:08.030 --> 00:49:10.519
kids residential. But is there a hard to reach portion

00:49:10.530 --> 00:49:13.148
of it that we can look at. And not and (inaudible)

00:49:13.168 --> 00:49:15.668
that's the piece that we're trying to look into. So

00:49:18.728 --> 00:49:19.250
Okay.

00:49:21.090 --> 00:49:22.639
Thank y'all for bearing with me.

00:49:28.429 --> 00:49:30.739
Everyone has 15 minutes. We're just flying through.

00:49:32.139 --> 00:49:34.639
All right. Uh Steve or Deborah?

00:49:36.648 --> 00:49:36.679
(silence)

00:49:43.110 --> 00:49:47.739
Yes. Wherever you like, wherever you want. Tell me

00:49:47.750 --> 00:49:51.000
when you want me to advance your slides. Good morning.

00:49:51.010 --> 00:49:53.679
(item:4.2:38578, Steve with SWEPCO discussing their programs) I'm Steve (inaudible). So I work with SWEPCO, um I'm an

00:49:53.688 --> 00:49:56.228
energy, Energy Efficiency Manager. I've been with SWEPCO,

00:49:56.320 --> 00:49:59.898
I joined SWEPCO in 2019. Part of that I was AEP Texas.

00:50:02.679 --> 00:50:04.728
So these were projections that we laid out in last

00:50:04.739 --> 00:50:08.619
year's (inaudible). SWEPCO's budget has remained relatively flat over

00:50:08.628 --> 00:50:12.809
the years. Uh the goal has remained constant and so

00:50:12.820 --> 00:50:15.849
our program offerings have, have been constant as well.

00:50:16.019 --> 00:50:20.050
Uh But what we've worked on doing is sort of like,

00:50:20.059 --> 00:50:23.239
uh you know, diversifying within the programs is only

00:50:23.250 --> 00:50:23.750
work to do.

00:50:27.179 --> 00:50:30.530
24-25 Potential Programs. We've got 7 programs

00:50:30.539 --> 00:50:34.610
that we offer, 5 commercial programs and 2 residential

00:50:34.619 --> 00:50:38.280
programs. Three other programs are implemented by Frontier

00:50:38.289 --> 00:50:41.929
Energy, beginning this year. The CPASS programs and

00:50:43.030 --> 00:50:46.010
CPASS stands for Commercial Partners Achieving Specialized

00:50:46.019 --> 00:50:49.760
Solutions. And then we've got a residential program

00:50:49.769 --> 00:50:52.148
and our hard to reach uh program. I'm gonna touch on

00:50:52.159 --> 00:50:56.070
those here in a little bit um as to how we've sort

00:50:56.079 --> 00:50:57.929
of fine tune those programs and they've made them more

00:50:57.938 --> 00:50:59.610
diverse uh to our customers.

00:51:03.039 --> 00:51:07.929
So back in 2017, uh early 2018. SWEPCO took stock of

00:51:07.938 --> 00:51:10.360
how the programs were performing. Found out they're

00:51:10.369 --> 00:51:13.739
only offering, not offering, only 4 different measures

00:51:13.750 --> 00:51:16.449
have been installed in the residential programs. Uh

00:51:16.458 --> 00:51:19.938
that doesn't mean more measures were not being offered

00:51:19.949 --> 00:51:23.320
they just will not be installed. Part of that was how

00:51:23.329 --> 00:51:25.780
the programs are structured and how the incentives

00:51:25.789 --> 00:51:30.500
were laid out and how that resonated with um, installers.

00:51:30.510 --> 00:51:32.929
But more importantly the customers that did make sense

00:51:32.938 --> 00:51:37.500
to them. So what we decided to do was make the incentives

00:51:37.510 --> 00:51:40.119
more prescriptive to the type of measure to install.

00:51:40.409 --> 00:51:46.090
So for example, HVAC it's more focused on, uh you know.

00:51:46.099 --> 00:51:49.780
We, we laid out the incentives uh per time basis and

00:51:49.789 --> 00:51:52.378
based on the efficiency of the system and that resonate

00:51:52.389 --> 00:51:54.579
with the contractors. So we were trying to offer more

00:51:54.590 --> 00:51:58.050
measures or have more measures installed in our programs.

00:51:59.878 --> 00:52:02.329
We also wanted to emphasize high impact measures like

00:52:02.340 --> 00:52:06.860
smart (inaudible) advance as well. Um it's a can be a low

00:52:06.889 --> 00:52:09.300
cost item that a customer can install in your home,

00:52:09.599 --> 00:52:12.750
but there's a high impact on that. So we made some

00:52:12.760 --> 00:52:15.599
efforts in emphasizing that. Um, and part of that was

00:52:15.610 --> 00:52:18.619
communication. But we sent out a residential newsletter

00:52:19.199 --> 00:52:23.360
to our customers each month. It's seasonal, um and

00:52:23.369 --> 00:52:26.168
tropical. So in the summer, we'll focus on cooling.

00:52:27.070 --> 00:52:29.280
Uh in the winter, we're focused on heating as well.

00:52:30.949 --> 00:52:33.530
And then the last one was, you know, educating contractors

00:52:33.539 --> 00:52:36.250
Understanding what the pinch points were and what

00:52:36.260 --> 00:52:41.320
the barriers of participation. What can we do

00:52:43.429 --> 00:52:46.188
you know, so we remove any obstacles for them to participate.

00:52:47.800 --> 00:52:53.478
And so what that resulted in, in 21-22 we had. Uh,

00:52:53.958 --> 00:52:56.929
I think I kind of, those was 19 different measures

00:52:56.938 --> 00:53:01.918
installed in our program. So we jumped from 14 to 19

00:53:01.929 --> 00:53:04.789
in a short time frame. We're gonna continue working

00:53:04.800 --> 00:53:07.599
on that. Um but one thing we want to do is see

00:53:07.610 --> 00:53:10.590
how we can translate the success to the commercial

00:53:10.599 --> 00:53:14.099
programs. Um and maybe in a few years here, we'll have.

00:53:14.958 --> 00:53:16.659
So I thought you're talking about the success of the

00:53:16.668 --> 00:53:17.590
commercial programs.

00:53:21.320 --> 00:53:21.340
Yeah.

00:53:23.840 --> 00:53:26.409
Who are some of the top sticking points of the contractors

00:53:26.418 --> 00:53:31.188
when you're (inaudible). Uh the, uh reporting requirements

00:53:31.199 --> 00:53:35.050
some of it was seasonal too. Uh for H.I. contractors

00:53:35.059 --> 00:53:38.989
Uh we roll out of programs in their business, picks

00:53:39.000 --> 00:53:42.719
up in the Spring. The programs work on a first come,

00:53:42.829 --> 00:53:46.219
first basis on a first serve basis. So the timing just

00:53:46.228 --> 00:53:49.320
wasn't working with them. Um so those are some of the

00:53:49.329 --> 00:53:51.599
obstacles. And then obviously the way we presented

00:53:51.610 --> 00:53:54.668
the incentive rates we were paying on a KW, kWH

00:53:54.679 --> 00:53:57.438
basis. They did not understand that. They did not

00:53:57.449 --> 00:53:59.760
know how to communicate that to stores. And so that

00:53:59.769 --> 00:54:03.590
was an obstacle as well. So we met them and I guess

00:54:03.599 --> 00:54:06.070
we we translate and start speaking their language versus

00:54:07.168 --> 00:54:07.309
yeah.

00:54:12.159 --> 00:54:14.889
Can you talk something about that? Uh smart uh news

00:54:20.958 --> 00:54:24.070
Oh, yes. So we were trying to find ways for customers

00:54:24.079 --> 00:54:28.369
to impact their, the energy usage in their bill. But

00:54:28.378 --> 00:54:31.409
as oppose at a low cost on their end. And so we

00:54:31.418 --> 00:54:34.199
integrated smart thermostats into our program and started

00:54:34.208 --> 00:54:37.628
offering the centers for customers to upgrade the thermostat

00:54:37.639 --> 00:54:42.809
in bill. So you guys uh that or

00:54:45.030 --> 00:54:49.289
the customer purchases, the thermostat in the scent

00:54:50.398 --> 00:54:50.728
to the.

00:54:53.688 --> 00:54:55.579
And I guess one other thing I wanna mention about this

00:54:55.590 --> 00:54:59.679
is. Um, in addition to these, you know, I've got three

00:54:59.719 --> 00:55:02.489
bullet points there. We have um,

00:55:04.019 --> 00:55:06.570
multiple pathways for customers to participate in our

00:55:06.579 --> 00:55:09.918
programs. So a network of contractors is pretty broad.

00:55:10.208 --> 00:55:14.369
The home builders, HVAC contractors, window installers

00:55:14.378 --> 00:55:15.320
plumbers.

00:55:17.398 --> 00:55:20.179
A variety of different ways uh, for customers to participate.

00:55:20.789 --> 00:55:22.929
In addition, we've got an online marketplace in which

00:55:22.938 --> 00:55:25.728
customers in our far reaching areas. Where we have trouble

00:55:25.739 --> 00:55:28.590
getting contractors to, can also participate in our

00:55:28.800 --> 00:55:28.958
program.

00:55:33.909 --> 00:55:37.320
So Steve, you've got a couple of measures that are

00:55:37.349 --> 00:55:42.668
kind of hard to get in like mini splits. Um, I guess

00:55:42.679 --> 00:55:42.989
how

00:55:44.889 --> 00:55:49.539
it's still slow but it's, it's getting there. Um, it's

00:55:49.550 --> 00:55:52.760
uh, again, the contractors are starting to understand

00:55:53.019 --> 00:55:57.050
the programs. Um, customers as well are starting to

00:55:57.059 --> 00:56:00.789
understand the programs. And so uh, the incentive

00:56:00.800 --> 00:56:03.918
is helping them make that decision to, to upgrade to

00:56:04.340 --> 00:56:07.659
a mini split. Um in some instances are typically high-efficiency

00:56:07.668 --> 00:56:10.829
units. Um but the way incentives are structured is

00:56:11.019 --> 00:56:13.418
the more efficient the units, the higher the incentive

00:56:13.429 --> 00:56:14.829
is. So that's helping.

00:56:16.570 --> 00:56:18.280
(inaudible) Great. Yeah.

00:56:23.668 --> 00:56:25.648
Okay. Sorry. Okay.

00:56:30.869 --> 00:56:32.438
All right, thank y'all. Thank you.

00:56:36.090 --> 00:56:39.929
Ok . CenterPoint. We were gonna have you all go. Because

00:56:39.938 --> 00:56:42.878
we're gonna need to work El Paso in later, before we

00:56:42.889 --> 00:56:46.159
break. Sure you want us to go now. Yeah, if you don't mind. That

00:56:46.168 --> 00:56:46.789
would be great.

00:56:49.458 --> 00:56:50.539
Not a problem., Yeah, cool.

00:56:53.659 --> 00:56:59.389
Oh, ok. Um can I stand here on this? Hi, everybody

00:56:59.398 --> 00:57:02.228
(item:5:38578, Ana Baskharone with CenterPoint discussing their programs) I'm Ana Baskharone, Director of Energy Efficiency. I will

00:57:02.239 --> 00:57:05.148
be providing an overview of the the budget and the

00:57:05.159 --> 00:57:08.079
programs just at a very high level. Then I'm gonna

00:57:08.090 --> 00:57:11.878
turn it over to Tim Griffin. Uh who works on our team

00:57:11.889 --> 00:57:14.559
and he will provide an overview of the residential

00:57:14.570 --> 00:57:17.639
research project that he conducted for our area.

00:57:20.389 --> 00:57:23.168
So with our budget, it's been pretty consistent. Um

00:57:23.179 --> 00:57:28.938
as it has been in prior years and um we do try

00:57:28.949 --> 00:57:31.769
to fine tune the budget. Based on where we see uh in

00:57:31.780 --> 00:57:35.010
interest of increased participation in the different

00:57:35.280 --> 00:57:42.429
um different programs. Next one. We uh for 2024 and 2025,

00:57:42.438 --> 00:57:46.010
we have about 15 projects and as you can see. They

00:57:46.019 --> 00:57:49.228
are pretty much split in half between residential and

00:57:49.239 --> 00:57:52.519
commercial customers. And we do have several uh low-

00:57:52.530 --> 00:57:56.628
income programs. What I want to highlight here is that

00:57:56.889 --> 00:58:00.269
we are leveraging our large account management teams.

00:58:00.280 --> 00:58:04.918
To create a greater awareness and engagement with our

00:58:04.929 --> 00:58:08.175
large commercial customers. And that's been very successful

00:58:08.184 --> 00:58:10.664
and we're going to continue to do that. We don't, we

00:58:10.675 --> 00:58:12.954
only we do that with the commercial standard offer

00:58:12.965 --> 00:58:15.985
program, as well as the score program. Which is specifically

00:58:15.994 --> 00:58:19.034
targeted for cities and school districts. And that's

00:58:19.043 --> 00:58:22.344
been very successful as well as health care. And then

00:58:22.353 --> 00:58:25.293
we leverage it also for the Load Management programs

00:58:25.304 --> 00:58:27.965
including the Winter Load Management Program that was

00:58:28.385 --> 00:58:32.014
introduced this year. And will continue towards the

00:58:32.023 --> 00:58:36.300
following years. Um I also want to point out that for

00:58:36.309 --> 00:58:39.989
the targeted low-income programs. We uh have partnered

00:58:40.000 --> 00:58:43.119
up with cities such as the City of Houston and now

00:58:43.128 --> 00:58:46.860
the City of Galveston. And we're very targeted in um

00:58:46.869 --> 00:58:50.918
the neighborhoods that we want in impact. And so um

00:58:50.929 --> 00:58:54.179
they're very excited about uh that engagement and that

00:58:54.188 --> 00:58:56.349
outreach and it's been very successful and we want

00:58:56.360 --> 00:58:59.489
to continue that forward too. So now I'll turn it over

00:58:59.500 --> 00:59:02.639
to Tim for the presentation of the research project

00:59:04.449 --> 00:59:06.750
Thanks, good morning, everyone. (item:5:38578, Tim Griffin with CenterPoint discussing research project) As Ana said, my name is Tim 

00:59:06.760 --> 00:59:09.570
 Griffin. I'm a Supervising Engineer at CenterPoint.

00:59:09.820 --> 00:59:12.708
I want to talk to you guys about a research project

00:59:12.719 --> 00:59:17.239
I did last year, involving our residential uh space.

00:59:17.590 --> 00:59:20.688
And so this all started with one simple question I

00:59:20.699 --> 00:59:23.360
had in my heart. Where in our territory, our homes are

00:59:23.369 --> 00:59:27.688
least efficient? Um a lot of effort gets spent on a

00:59:27.699 --> 00:59:30.648
couple of different sectors on the residential side.

00:59:30.840 --> 00:59:34.099
Low-income, urban, rural. However, I think there is

00:59:34.110 --> 00:59:36.628
a missing piece that not too many people talk about

00:59:36.639 --> 00:59:39.780
is. Just who's consuming the actual energy? Because sometimes

00:59:39.789 --> 00:59:43.938
they don't, that part of the piece doesn't, doesn't

00:59:43.949 --> 00:59:47.469
match well with the other pieces. So in order to get

00:59:47.478 --> 00:59:51.398
a better insight on how we market our program, how

00:59:51.409 --> 00:59:54.000
we structure our programs. My thought was, well, let's

00:59:54.010 --> 00:59:57.208
just get an understanding of what our residential customers

00:59:57.219 --> 01:00:01.320
do. Uh you know, are we serving these customers too

01:00:01.329 --> 01:00:04.090
as well? If they're very poorly performing, if they

01:00:04.099 --> 01:00:07.619
consume a lot of energy? Are we actually marketing

01:00:07.628 --> 01:00:10.148
our programs towards them or are they actually participating?

01:00:10.559 --> 01:00:13.849
If they're not, what can we do to drive that participation.

01:00:14.039 --> 01:00:16.469
Can we do we have to make marketing changes? Do we

01:00:16.478 --> 01:00:19.199
have to uh increase incentives? Do we just have to

01:00:19.208 --> 01:00:22.280
create whole new programs? So a lot of this kind of

01:00:22.289 --> 01:00:24.539
flows down through that first question that I just

01:00:24.550 --> 01:00:28.559
asked, right? Well, how do we calculate out if a home

01:00:28.570 --> 01:00:31.750
is energy efficient or not? In my mind, I just calculate

01:00:31.760 --> 01:00:35.110
the energy usage intensity (inaudible). And so what

01:00:35.119 --> 01:00:37.918
we, what I did is I just took all the meters, residential

01:00:37.929 --> 01:00:42.369
meters in our territory. Uh calculated the yearly energy

01:00:42.378 --> 01:00:46.590
consumption, divided that by the square footage gathered

01:00:46.599 --> 01:00:51.208
by all the appraisal districts. Um that helps me given us

01:00:51.219 --> 01:00:54.989
everything online that's easily searchable. And so by

01:00:55.000 --> 01:00:57.938
using addresses from our system and the appraisal district

01:00:57.949 --> 01:01:01.110
system. I'm able to match up pretty well consumption

01:01:01.119 --> 01:01:06.929
to building characteristics. And so with that, I managed

01:01:06.938 --> 01:01:11.030
to get about slightly over 1.4 million hits basically.

01:01:11.039 --> 01:01:13.840
So that's not all the homes in our territory, but that's

01:01:13.849 --> 01:01:16.769
a significant amount. That's uh I think I it out on

01:01:16.780 --> 01:01:20.929
roughly 86% of all the single family homes in our territory

01:01:21.349 --> 01:01:27.329
were included in this analysis. Um and so with that

01:01:27.438 --> 01:01:32.280
I wanted to see, can we find general practice in home specific.

01:01:32.360 --> 01:01:37.260
Was it by year built? By system types? Uh but also by

01:01:37.269 --> 01:01:40.119
space heating. So, appraisal district information doesn't

01:01:40.128 --> 01:01:42.958
include that. However, because I have the meter data

01:01:42.969 --> 01:01:45.869
I can kind of figure it out just by looking at the

01:01:45.878 --> 01:01:49.168
data. Is it a electric resistant home? Is it a gas

01:01:49.179 --> 01:01:52.929
heated home or possibly even a heat pump home? So

01:01:52.938 --> 01:01:55.539
with that data, I'm able to make a gas basically uh

01:01:55.550 --> 01:01:58.800
uh on the space heat uh for that particular home. And

01:01:58.809 --> 01:02:00.739
for us, that's important because if we have an electric

01:02:00.750 --> 01:02:03.780
resistance home, we want to convert them to heat pumps

01:02:03.789 --> 01:02:06.309
as much as possible. Because that's where all the savings

01:02:06.320 --> 01:02:09.978
comes from on the residential side. So it's not just

01:02:09.989 --> 01:02:14.019
home, we also have economic conditions. So by carrying

01:02:14.030 --> 01:02:17.090
data from the Census Bureau, we're able to kind of

01:02:17.099 --> 01:02:21.039
match demographics, medium income, all that information

01:02:21.050 --> 01:02:24.429
that the US government takes. We try to find some patterns

01:02:24.438 --> 01:02:28.579
to that. Also geographic, although we're a slightly

01:02:28.590 --> 01:02:33.070
compact territory, we are close to the Gulf. So the Gulf

01:02:33.079 --> 01:02:37.478
area has more milder weather, so to speak than up north

01:02:37.989 --> 01:02:40.780
in our territory. But then, and then finally, we also

01:02:40.789 --> 01:02:44.639
just activity in our energy efficiency programs. Just

01:02:45.369 --> 01:02:47.958
uh are, are these regions participating? If not, what

01:02:47.969 --> 01:02:51.199
can we do? So if you go to the next slide, so

01:02:51.208 --> 01:02:54.619
all that boils down to, to the picture on the left.

01:02:54.898 --> 01:02:58.550
So what I did is I (inaudible)

01:02:58.559 --> 01:03:02.269
zip code, but then to kind of bring out the the least

01:03:02.280 --> 01:03:05.320
efficient ones. I basically compare that against the

01:03:05.329 --> 01:03:09.699
residential energy consumption survey, REX. So the area

01:03:09.708 --> 01:03:13.148
is in pink or purple. However, we want whatever color

01:03:13.159 --> 01:03:14.070
you want to call that.

01:03:15.719 --> 01:03:20.429
Um those are greater than 10%

01:03:22.010 --> 01:03:26.280
have EI greater than 10% of the average equator to REX.

01:03:26.438 --> 01:03:29.918
So these are the, the least efficient zip codes in

01:03:29.929 --> 01:03:34.349
our territory. Now, um there's kind of a smattering

01:03:34.360 --> 01:03:39.449
all over the place. Um demographically, there are um

01:03:40.539 --> 01:03:43.909
there's a wide range of just income levels and uh

01:03:43.989 --> 01:03:47.389
demographic levels. Also in geographic, there's a lot

01:03:47.398 --> 01:03:50.458
in the south side of our territory. Where it's a lot

01:03:50.469 --> 01:03:51.090
more admirable.

01:03:53.039 --> 01:03:56.619
But then also with the FS data, these areas tend to

01:03:56.628 --> 01:04:01.050
also have a slightly larger amount of uh uh electrically

01:04:01.059 --> 01:04:05.148
resisted heated homes, just judging from the data. So

01:04:05.159 --> 01:04:08.449
again, that points to our opportunity of marketing

01:04:08.458 --> 01:04:11.539
heat pumps through our residential programs to the

01:04:11.550 --> 01:04:15.570
to the specific zip codes. Um and then the picture

01:04:15.579 --> 01:04:18.898
on the right is just a comparison against just a count

01:04:18.909 --> 01:04:21.840
of projects that participated in our energy efficiency

01:04:21.849 --> 01:04:26.590
program on the residential side since 2018. So the

01:04:26.599 --> 01:04:29.369
hope is, well, my hope was I didn't find out too much

01:04:29.378 --> 01:04:31.750
of an overlap. Because that means that there's a problem.

01:04:32.070 --> 01:04:33.878
It could be that we're not marketing it to the correct

01:04:33.889 --> 01:04:36.929
people in these zip codes or it could be worst case

01:04:36.938 --> 01:04:39.860
scenario. The TRM is just not (inaudible).

01:04:40.079 --> 01:04:44.619
So luckily, I guess for, for Tetra Tech and for everybody

01:04:44.628 --> 01:04:47.320
involved. Uh this doesn't look like that's happening.

01:04:47.329 --> 01:04:50.478
It looks like the uh participation is mainly driven

01:04:50.489 --> 01:04:54.780
by a (inaudible) program. And those tend to be very, very

01:04:55.179 --> 01:04:59.989
uh territorial either just from participation. But

01:05:00.000 --> 01:05:04.918
also because of the, the, uh our program has a minimum

01:05:04.929 --> 01:05:06.938
efficiency requirement, that's much greater than what

01:05:06.949 --> 01:05:09.958
the TRM allows. So, in our midstream program, we

01:05:09.969 --> 01:05:13.978
have to, they have to install uh last year, (inaudible)

01:05:13.989 --> 01:05:16.840
year. So that's a lot of costs for a lot of low-

01:05:16.869 --> 01:05:21.550
income people to, to incorporate all at once. So we

01:05:21.559 --> 01:05:24.030
tended to see in our (inaudible) programs, the higher uh

01:05:24.039 --> 01:05:27.250
median income areas participating. And so that's the

01:05:27.260 --> 01:05:31.208
main driver behind the, the participation uh picture

01:05:31.219 --> 01:05:36.050
on the right. So if you go to the next slide. So

01:05:36.059 --> 01:05:38.969
conclusions as I said, most of our participation is

01:05:38.978 --> 01:05:41.909
driven by our (inaudible) programs which is highly territorial.

01:05:42.320 --> 01:05:44.739
What I didn't show you, what I can't show you is that

01:05:44.750 --> 01:05:47.409
our residential standard offer programs tends towards

01:05:47.418 --> 01:05:49.869
the higher median income levels. Again, that makes

01:05:49.878 --> 01:05:55.010
more sense. Also, most of our um most of the participation

01:05:55.719 --> 01:06:00.849
yeah, tends to be done by higher income people, folks

01:06:00.860 --> 01:06:03.099
especially on the solar PV side. Which is becoming

01:06:03.110 --> 01:06:05.909
more and more of a measure inside a residential standard

01:06:05.918 --> 01:06:12.119
offer program. So that forces that conclusion. And our

01:06:12.128 --> 01:06:14.659
hard to reach standard offer program tends towards

01:06:14.668 --> 01:06:17.840
the same areas. And so I think a lot of that is

01:06:17.849 --> 01:06:23.760
worn by design by a low-income areas are kind of highly

01:06:23.769 --> 01:06:26.648
concentrated together. But also because of recent changes

01:06:26.659 --> 01:06:30.269
that we made to our qualifications in terms of the

01:06:30.898 --> 01:06:34.289
qualified census track data. Using that to kind of help

01:06:34.300 --> 01:06:38.708
qualify homes. That's very, very, that ensures that

01:06:39.449 --> 01:06:42.329
but the specific zones are just selected over and over

01:06:42.340 --> 01:06:45.659
again. Because that's easier to, to qualify uh in our

01:06:45.750 --> 01:06:51.128
in the hard to reach standard program. So we've taken

01:06:51.139 --> 01:06:54.590
one opportunity so far. That in our residential program

01:06:54.599 --> 01:06:57.898
in those pink areas. We increased our incentive rates

01:06:57.909 --> 01:07:02.409
to match our hard to reach rates. Hopefully to get

01:07:02.418 --> 01:07:06.610
sponsors to go to those areas and participate in those

01:07:06.619 --> 01:07:09.938
high, high energy consuming areas.

01:07:11.978 --> 01:07:15.378
So then also in terms of outreach. Well, this is still

01:07:15.389 --> 01:07:19.780
a work in progress. But can we can we market or can

01:07:19.789 --> 01:07:22.168
we change our marketing efforts, our recruitment process

01:07:22.179 --> 01:07:24.188
to target those specific areas?

01:07:25.820 --> 01:07:28.159
What can we do? We're still trying to figure that out

01:07:28.168 --> 01:07:31.519
on our end. As I mentioned before, maybe we just even

01:07:31.530 --> 01:07:33.849
have to evaluate and create new programs just to talk

01:07:33.860 --> 01:07:38.969
to those specific areas. Again, still a work in progress.

01:07:38.978 --> 01:07:41.478
We don't have any sort of no thoughts in our head

01:07:41.489 --> 01:07:44.168
yet. But that is something that we are looking into.

01:07:45.208 --> 01:07:48.148
And finally, so this was just at least to my end, just

01:07:48.159 --> 01:07:52.530
a very super superficial level of view points in terms

01:07:52.539 --> 01:07:55.699
of energy consumption. I only had about a year, yearly

01:07:55.708 --> 01:07:59.188
data. A monthly data, I rolled up into a year. What

01:07:59.199 --> 01:08:01.519
I would like to do is actually get our interval data

01:08:01.530 --> 01:08:04.329
our 15 minute interval data. To try and see if we can't

01:08:04.340 --> 01:08:07.280
suss out any sort of patterns to the energy consumption

01:08:07.668 --> 01:08:10.628
of particular homes. Can we try and model homes? So

01:08:10.639 --> 01:08:13.610
that way if we have a particular housing stock, we

01:08:13.619 --> 01:08:17.918
can try and model potential energy efficiency measures

01:08:17.930 --> 01:08:20.399
or potential energy efficiency savings or even going

01:08:20.409 --> 01:08:23.149
all the way through to our Load management programs.

01:08:23.159 --> 01:08:25.079
If they participate in our Load management program.

01:08:25.088 --> 01:08:28.189
Can we predict the particular weather structure? Can

01:08:28.199 --> 01:08:31.948
we predict what the potential savings could be? Um

01:08:32.257 --> 01:08:35.179
and then finally, just using more public records just

01:08:35.188 --> 01:08:38.719
to maybe try and, and get a comparison against our

01:08:38.738 --> 01:08:42.917
interval data. Um we have a lot of data out there and

01:08:42.929 --> 01:08:47.378
and trying to figure out patterns. Sometimes can be

01:08:47.390 --> 01:08:50.168
a fool's game. Sometimes they can hear something interesting

01:08:50.378 --> 01:08:51.918
but we won't know until we

01:08:54.069 --> 01:08:56.369
try. Uh with that, I think that's pretty much it. For the

01:08:56.378 --> 01:08:58.399
CenterPoint. You have any questions?

01:09:01.409 --> 01:09:06.319
86% of (inaudible) rate is pretty high for tax data to utility 

01:09:06.750 --> 01:09:09.619
data. Did you do anything to prep the addresses?

01:09:11.279 --> 01:09:14.180
No. Correct? So why I guess we are lucky because most of

01:09:14.189 --> 01:09:18.470
our territory was (inaudible) County. And our record

01:09:18.479 --> 01:09:22.668
pass, (inaudible) County very well. So I guess we got lucky

01:09:23.000 --> 01:09:27.369
there. Second of all, if we couldn't find the data set initially

01:09:27.520 --> 01:09:30.909
GEO location, the kind of get GPS coordinates and try

01:09:30.918 --> 01:09:35.668
(inaudible). Um that also helped. Um but

01:09:35.680 --> 01:09:39.039
there were still just some areas that we just (inaudible)

01:09:39.048 --> 01:09:40.970
(inaudible)

01:09:45.349 --> 01:09:47.298
(inaudible)

01:09:48.838 --> 01:09:52.390
So, yeah. I was initially shocked when I saw that I

01:09:52.399 --> 01:09:53.949
must have gotten very wealthy somehow.

01:09:55.878 --> 01:09:57.810
(inaudible)

01:09:59.810 --> 01:10:03.739
Yeah. Did, did you use gas data to determine whether

01:10:03.750 --> 01:10:06.069
it was a gas or? No, so I just look at the

01:10:06.079 --> 01:10:09.289
the average of the Summer day or the average of the

01:10:09.298 --> 01:10:12.770
Winter? So that way, you know, if we know if we see

01:10:12.779 --> 01:10:15.119
giant spike in the Winter. We can make that assumption

01:10:15.128 --> 01:10:16.369
that they are a much (inaudible).

01:10:18.060 --> 01:10:21.739
So you kind of avoiding the the structure, the need

01:10:21.750 --> 01:10:22.239
to have the

01:10:24.378 --> 01:10:26.819
(inaudible) because it's an actual data set of a system. I'm

01:10:26.829 --> 01:10:29.850
not too familiar with, with different address issues

01:10:29.859 --> 01:10:33.029
as well. So it was, it was having more complications

01:10:33.039 --> 01:10:34.798
to something I have to try and figure out,

01:10:38.779 --> 01:10:43.418
anyway. I think we'll go Todd and then Dub. So not to tie into the (inaudible)

01:10:43.720 --> 01:10:46.319
But I think this is a good point. I feel like cost

01:10:46.378 --> 01:10:49.798
effectiveness at the portfolio level is so important.

01:10:50.060 --> 01:10:52.409
Because these are the type of programs that can then

01:10:52.418 --> 01:10:55.289
be rolled out in pilot programs. To figure out how to

01:10:55.298 --> 01:10:58.930
reach these areas that they feel are not being reached. And this

01:10:58.939 --> 01:11:01.208
is a prime, I mean, it, it's literally up there on

01:11:01.220 --> 01:11:03.668
the screen on why do you feel like (inaudible).

01:11:10.128 --> 01:11:12.270
If I'm reading your map right. So it look like uh

01:11:12.279 --> 01:11:14.708
the red areas was sort of a ring, you know, around

01:11:14.720 --> 01:11:17.759
the area. For, for the participation map? Uh is that

01:11:17.878 --> 01:11:20.810
the, the red areas or the one on the higher? What's

01:11:20.829 --> 01:11:23.409
that? Is that for those areas that have the eu I 10%

01:11:23.418 --> 01:11:25.810
higher than average? Uh which uh which picture are

01:11:25.819 --> 01:11:27.418
you referring to the one on the left or the right?

01:11:27.430 --> 01:11:30.720
Right. Right? So that's uh participation in our energy

01:11:30.729 --> 01:11:33.329
efficiency programs. Okay. The one on the left is the

01:11:33.338 --> 01:11:37.458
(inaudible) Okay. Well, even with the, with the one on the left.

01:11:37.588 --> 01:11:41.489
Uh did you look at uh were there codes, uh, energy

01:11:41.500 --> 01:11:44.878
codes in those in unincorporated areas may have impacted

01:11:44.890 --> 01:11:48.869
this. And I guess the second piece of that is enforcement

01:11:48.878 --> 01:11:51.319
or lack of enforcement for any sort of energy codes

01:11:51.329 --> 01:11:54.458
that main influences. So we haven't seen that now.

01:11:54.759 --> 01:11:59.039
A lot of the data that we're seeing, um, they were

01:11:59.048 --> 01:12:01.729
new homes in those territories, or at least they weren't

01:12:01.739 --> 01:12:04.199
a significant amount that probably would cause that

01:12:04.208 --> 01:12:06.180
kind of issue. But we haven't done. I mean, that's

01:12:06.189 --> 01:12:09.739
just me guessing at this point. But we didn't take that into

01:12:09.750 --> 01:12:14.279
account. But from talking to our new homes program,

01:12:14.770 --> 01:12:18.458
program managers. At least my understanding is that

01:12:18.470 --> 01:12:23.140
code enforcement for new homes, at least now. That is

01:12:23.149 --> 01:12:26.798
pretty, pretty good in pretty good shape in our territory.

01:12:27.189 --> 01:12:30.270
Now in the past, in the 60's, 70's and 80's

01:12:30.279 --> 01:12:34.140
when these homes were built. Um, I can't speak to that.

01:12:34.149 --> 01:12:35.180
I, I wasn't here.

01:12:38.949 --> 01:12:42.279
But definitely within the last 20 or so years it seems

01:12:42.289 --> 01:12:44.789
to be that, that, that hasn't been too much of an issue

01:12:47.239 --> 01:12:50.720
(inaudible). It's a really cool study. Uh, really

01:12:50.729 --> 01:12:53.930
potentially impactful. I'm curious if you guys have

01:12:53.939 --> 01:12:57.489
any plans to share any level of granularity of this

01:12:57.500 --> 01:13:00.668
study with either designers or contractors that can

01:13:00.680 --> 01:13:03.918
benefit from it. So we, we have to, we'll have to discuss

01:13:03.930 --> 01:13:07.600
that uh amongst our legal team. A lot of this is customer

01:13:07.798 --> 01:13:12.918
data aggregated. Um we do put this, this one map on

01:13:12.930 --> 01:13:15.699
the left and the list of zip codes that it represents

01:13:15.989 --> 01:13:18.489
in our program manual on the residential side. So,

01:13:18.500 --> 01:13:20.588
if you're curious on just what zip codes those are

01:13:21.000 --> 01:13:23.779
uh, it's available on a residential standard off the

01:13:23.789 --> 01:13:25.640
program annual today.

01:13:28.229 --> 01:13:32.878
That question. Nice. I see that, uh, the left side

01:13:34.239 --> 01:13:36.680
this study shows that the different, uh, different

01:13:36.689 --> 01:13:42.310
location. But the project, uh, project, uh project type

01:13:46.229 --> 01:13:49.789
guess maybe I'm wrong. But, uh, can you expand more

01:13:50.750 --> 01:13:54.140
what is this on the left side versus the right side? Sure.

01:13:54.239 --> 01:13:58.819
So the left side that is a uh uh energy consumption

01:13:58.829 --> 01:14:02.689
profile server. It's so on the left side, if the

01:14:02.699 --> 01:14:03.918
areas that are on pink,

01:14:05.699 --> 01:14:10.069
the on average homes in those in those zip codes consume

01:14:10.079 --> 01:14:13.310
more energy than the surrounding than the non pink

01:14:13.319 --> 01:14:17.189
areas. The one on the right hand side is just participation

01:14:17.199 --> 01:14:20.140
in our energy efficiency programs. So the darker red

01:14:20.149 --> 01:14:23.628
it is the more homes in that zip code participate in

01:14:23.640 --> 01:14:26.588
energy efficiency programs. So they don't, they aren't

01:14:26.600 --> 01:14:30.680
exactly linked 1 to 1. Um it's just more of a uh

01:14:30.878 --> 01:14:33.899
see if there's a causation. Is that one influence the

01:14:33.909 --> 01:14:34.409
other?

01:14:38.588 --> 01:14:41.720
I have a quick question. So you talked about outreach

01:14:41.729 --> 01:14:44.298
and you're, you're mulling through the different ways

01:14:44.310 --> 01:14:46.470
that you can do outreach and you're still thinking

01:14:46.479 --> 01:14:49.029
it through. You talked about new recruitment efforts

01:14:49.060 --> 01:14:54.918
education and awareness. Do you believe that sometime

01:14:54.930 --> 01:14:58.869
during 2024 program year, you will roll some of these

01:14:58.878 --> 01:14:59.289
out?

01:15:01.399 --> 01:15:03.739
There's a high probability that we will do that. We're

01:15:03.750 --> 01:15:06.548
working with our marketing team to be able to discuss

01:15:06.560 --> 01:15:09.829
the different communication channels that we have available

01:15:09.838 --> 01:15:13.878
for us that are cost effective and impactful. And so

01:15:13.890 --> 01:15:16.708
we'll be doing that analysis this year and we will

01:15:16.720 --> 01:15:20.949
use this information to inform that uh objective.

01:15:22.668 --> 01:15:26.359
Also, I would just add to, I think contract recruitment

01:15:26.798 --> 01:15:29.489
as far as the outreach kind of focus on the customer.

01:15:29.500 --> 01:15:32.560
But it's finding contractors or project sponsors in

01:15:32.569 --> 01:15:35.140
these areas. And that's something that, you know, it's

01:15:35.149 --> 01:15:37.939
not even a program change, right? It's just us really

01:15:37.949 --> 01:15:40.628
trying to fine tune and, and, and find the participants

01:15:40.640 --> 01:15:43.689
And as mentioned, we, we have already made some incentive

01:15:43.699 --> 01:15:44.939
modifications to,

01:15:47.878 --> 01:15:50.729
I think there's definitely an opportunity to not only

01:15:50.739 --> 01:15:53.009
engage the contractors but really understand what are

01:15:53.020 --> 01:15:55.619
the barrier, the barriers that they have. So that we

01:15:55.628 --> 01:15:57.979
can make it easier for them for, for them to work with

01:15:57.989 --> 01:15:59.729
us and participate more.

01:16:03.088 --> 01:16:07.838
Oh, sorry. So on the um on the diagram to get red

01:16:07.850 --> 01:16:10.569
You had to be greater than 10%?

01:16:14.378 --> 01:16:18.600
Yes. So can you just kind of like comment or back of the

01:16:18.609 --> 01:16:23.649
envelope? Give us an idea of, I mean, how, how inefficient

01:16:23.659 --> 01:16:27.770
are they really as it was the norm, right at the 10%?

01:16:27.779 --> 01:16:34.529
Or so, some of these zip codes were way, way above the whole

01:16:34.539 --> 01:16:37.409
population. I mean, how bad is bad? So

01:16:41.819 --> 01:16:46.378
Um, so it depends. So, one thing I found interesting

01:16:46.390 --> 01:16:49.100
was that at least on the low-income side. They are

01:16:49.109 --> 01:16:51.649
actually very energy efficient. They're, they are kind

01:16:51.659 --> 01:16:55.159
of forced to do economic means. They can't afford to

01:16:55.168 --> 01:16:59.310
spend $400 a month on energy bills. So they just do without. They

01:16:59.319 --> 01:17:01.909
turn on their A/C system. They don't really do anything

01:17:01.958 --> 01:17:04.279
at least from my understanding. However, what I found

01:17:04.289 --> 01:17:07.149
is the higher income areas they tend to, they can afford

01:17:07.159 --> 01:17:10.029
those bills. So they're cranking their A/C to like 66

01:17:10.039 --> 01:17:12.789
degrees in the middle of Summer time. Because they have

01:17:12.798 --> 01:17:17.390
that ability. So a lot of the, so I think what I'm

01:17:17.399 --> 01:17:20.588
saying on the question is. That some of these areas

01:17:20.600 --> 01:17:23.708
that are a higher medium income, they tended to be

01:17:23.720 --> 01:17:29.878
very far away from the 10%. And the areas tended to

01:17:29.890 --> 01:17:34.869
be closer towards the median income of the, of our

01:17:34.878 --> 01:17:37.770
territory or I tend to be on the lower side of that

01:17:38.000 --> 01:17:42.750
they tend to be right there. So, but in terms of just

01:17:42.759 --> 01:17:45.310
averages, I can't, I don't know off the top of my head.

01:17:45.449 --> 01:17:46.270
But it was,

01:17:47.930 --> 01:17:52.609
you know, you had some of these territories just way

01:17:52.619 --> 01:17:55.909
way off. Just way off the mark compared to everybody

01:17:55.939 --> 01:17:59.279
else. And we, since we don't have that specific data

01:17:59.289 --> 01:18:01.909
in front of us, we can send it to you. Yeah and

01:18:01.918 --> 01:18:04.100
I guess to your point, I mean, behavior (inaudible)

01:18:04.109 --> 01:18:07.100
that some of the areas that you say are just forced

01:18:07.109 --> 01:18:10.810
from economic stand standpoint not to run the air conditioner.

01:18:11.109 --> 01:18:15.989
That resonance may be a whole lot more inefficient

01:18:16.000 --> 01:18:17.659
than what? Oh, yes.

01:18:21.850 --> 01:18:25.890
Did you try to control for things like pools or you

01:18:25.899 --> 01:18:28.338
know, that would make really big impacts on that too

01:18:28.609 --> 01:18:32.039
No, we didn't. You know that. And one of the things

01:18:32.048 --> 01:18:35.829
after I done this was so this is a snapshot of, of

01:18:35.838 --> 01:18:41.378
data from the, the middle 2021 to 2022. So after I

01:18:41.390 --> 01:18:43.338
did this, I thought about, well, what about COVID?

01:18:43.350 --> 01:18:45.259
What happened? So we're seeing this on the commercial

01:18:45.270 --> 01:18:49.859
space where COVID reeking havoc and all that. At the as well

01:18:50.588 --> 01:18:52.739
on the residential side, it's probably the same thing

01:18:52.750 --> 01:18:55.119
as well. So this is a snapshot in time if we went

01:18:55.128 --> 01:18:57.939
back to one of the things is if we went back to

01:18:57.949 --> 01:19:02.079
2018 and 2019. Would these same zip codes kind of show up

01:19:02.088 --> 01:19:06.458
too as well? So, but no, this is more of a superficial

01:19:06.470 --> 01:19:10.619
look, a very, very shallow look. So we didn't get into

01:19:10.628 --> 01:19:14.689
specifics with that just because also as well. I'm

01:19:14.699 --> 01:19:17.418
trying to think of some appraisal district records that I'm aware

01:19:17.430 --> 01:19:20.399
of. They don't tend to include at least full information

01:19:20.409 --> 01:19:22.479
or at least be very accurate. Because anybody can build

01:19:22.548 --> 01:19:27.509
a pool and not report it. So, um uh but yeah, we

01:19:27.520 --> 01:19:32.529
did. Yeah, it was just square footage. Uh and then

01:19:32.539 --> 01:19:38.489
other building information like uh central A/C status.

01:19:38.979 --> 01:19:39.649
And uh

01:19:41.739 --> 01:19:44.279
So I have one other question. This is awesome. I'm

01:19:44.289 --> 01:19:46.609
very excited. I love all the questions Teresa asked

01:19:46.619 --> 01:19:50.529
and, and Gary asked. Um if I understand right, with

01:19:50.539 --> 01:19:53.229
both like uh pro. And again, it's secondary sources.

01:19:53.239 --> 01:19:57.279
So it's not exact but with income on there. And then

01:19:57.289 --> 01:20:01.458
with having used, you could do a proxy for energy burden.

01:20:02.029 --> 01:20:04.939
And you actually could like, that's not something that

01:20:05.220 --> 01:20:07.539
we've done. But what a great metric that could also

01:20:07.548 --> 01:20:10.979
be used for that hard to reach is the energy burden.

01:20:10.989 --> 01:20:13.729
So if, if I'm understanding, right? It sounds like

01:20:13.739 --> 01:20:16.619
that could be a possibility. It is. Well, yes. So I

01:20:16.628 --> 01:20:20.000
think we dug a little bit into that, but not too, you

01:20:20.119 --> 01:20:22.529
know, I wasn't thinking that in that, I was thinking

01:20:22.560 --> 01:20:27.149
more along the lines of. Can I make a who's participating?

01:20:27.159 --> 01:20:31.699
What kind of level other than energy burden? It's just

01:20:31.720 --> 01:20:34.939
you know, as a value I would love if I could track

01:20:34.949 --> 01:20:37.918
we made an impact on energy burden over time. So I

01:20:37.930 --> 01:20:38.859
was just like, oh,

01:20:42.088 --> 01:20:42.958
anything else?

01:20:45.399 --> 01:20:46.720
Thank you. Thank you guys.

01:20:51.000 --> 01:20:54.640
So we, we knew we were just being flexible.

01:20:54.649 --> 01:20:58.079
We're so happy to have you with us, (inaudible) Crystal. I

01:20:58.088 --> 01:21:00.208
think let's go ahead and break and then we'll come

01:21:00.220 --> 01:21:02.619
back and we'll start with El Paso. And then go through

01:21:02.628 --> 01:21:05.918
the other ERCOT utilities. So we just kind of subbed CenterPoint

01:21:05.930 --> 01:21:08.579
in for you. Knowing you would join us when we

01:21:08.588 --> 01:21:13.140
could. So, um can we get back about 10:40? I think

01:21:15.128 --> 01:21:17.869
10:40 would be great. Thank you