WEBVTT 00:00:10.169 --> 00:00:13.169 (item:0.1:Chairwoman Jackson calls meeting to order) Good morning. This meeting of the Public Utility Commission 00:00:13.179 --> 00:00:15.429 of Texas will come to order. To consider matters that 00:00:15.439 --> 00:00:18.350 have been duly posted with the Secretary of State for 00:00:18.359 --> 00:00:22.780 July 20, 2023. For the record, my name is Kathleen Jackson 00:00:22.859 --> 00:00:26.228 and I'm joined by Will McAdams, Lori Cobos and Jimmy 00:00:26.239 --> 00:00:29.699 Glotfelty. Before I get started, I just wanted to recognize 00:00:29.708 --> 00:00:32.969 our very own Commissioner Cobos as she received a special 00:00:32.978 --> 00:00:35.939 recognition this week as one of America's Hispanic 00:00:35.950 --> 00:00:39.829 Utility Commissioners and Energy Leaders. Congratulations. 00:00:45.429 --> 00:00:49.859 And a very special, congratulations to Jimmy on his 00:00:49.868 --> 00:00:51.918 recent engagement to Melissa. 00:00:56.298 --> 00:00:58.029 And the Commission is better for it. 00:00:59.929 --> 00:01:02.329 We're so happy for you. Um, 00:01:03.859 --> 00:01:06.269 Shelah, will you please walk us through the 00:01:06.278 --> 00:01:09.269 Consent Items on today's Agenda? (item:0.1:Shelah Cisneros with Commission Counsel lays out Consent Agenda)Yes, ma'am. Good morning 00:01:09.278 --> 00:01:12.230 Commissioners by individual ballot. The following items 00:01:12.239 --> 00:01:15.540 were placed on your Consent Agenda. Items 3- 00:01:15.549 --> 00:01:23.480 6, 8-11, 15, 17-22 and 27. (item:0.1:Chairwoman Jackson asks for motion to approve items on Consent Agenda) I will entertain 00:01:23.489 --> 00:01:26.138 a motion to approve the items just described by Shelah. 00:01:26.239 --> 00:01:32.510 So moved. Second. A second. All in favor, say aye. Aye. Motion passes. Additionally 00:01:32.519 --> 00:01:37.000 Item 12 will not be taken up. Let's begin with Item 00:01:37.010 --> 00:01:40.819 1, Public Comment. (item:1:Chairwoman Jackson lays out instructions for public comment) Oral comments related to a specific 00:01:40.829 --> 00:01:43.799 agenda item will be heard when that item is taken up. 00:01:43.909 --> 00:01:47.489 This is for general comments. When we get to oral comments 00:01:47.500 --> 00:01:49.930 on specific items, stakeholders should not approach 00:01:49.939 --> 00:01:52.689 the table unless oral argument has been granted or 00:01:52.698 --> 00:01:55.349 have them or they have been invited by a Commissioner. 00:01:55.650 --> 00:01:58.808 Speakers will be limited to 3 minutes each. Shelah, 00:01:58.819 --> 00:02:01.698 do we have anyone from the public signed up to speak 00:02:01.750 --> 00:02:03.859 (item:1:Shelah Cisneros confirms 1 signed up for public comments) Yes, ma'am. We have 1 person that has signed up to 00:02:03.870 --> 00:02:07.638 speak, Mike Peterson. Okay Mike, if you would come on 00:02:07.650 --> 00:02:08.099 up. 00:02:10.149 --> 00:02:11.300 (inaudible) 00:02:18.788 --> 00:02:21.750 speaking to the mic. And then would you please state 00:02:21.758 --> 00:02:24.219 your name and organization for the record? (item:1:Mike Peterson with Bridge Studios for Public Comment) Sure. My 00:02:24.229 --> 00:02:26.649 name is Mike Peterson and I'm here today on behalf 00:02:26.659 --> 00:02:31.179 of Bridge Studios. Um, honorable ladies and gentlemen 00:02:31.189 --> 00:02:32.949 thank you for allowing me to speak today. Unfortunately 00:02:32.960 --> 00:02:35.669 I wish that this visit was to express my joy and how 00:02:35.679 --> 00:02:38.520 easy the PUC has been to work with. Instead, I'm here 00:02:38.528 --> 00:02:40.750 to call your attention to a failure to meet your mission 00:02:41.460 --> 00:02:44.069 The largest and most advanced movie studios in the 00:02:44.080 --> 00:02:47.250 world are about to open here in Texas. Not that far 00:02:47.258 --> 00:02:49.069 from where we're now sitting and the cost of the build 00:02:49.080 --> 00:02:52.610 out alone is in the billions and just the initial need 00:02:52.618 --> 00:02:55.629 for capacity is 20 megawatts of potential power uh 00:02:55.639 --> 00:02:58.469 drawn at any time. The problem is that the PUC has 00:02:58.479 --> 00:03:00.508 been consistently unable to help me solve problems 00:03:00.520 --> 00:03:02.740 relating to which energy companies service, which parts 00:03:02.750 --> 00:03:05.969 of the property and has at times been unable to tell 00:03:05.979 --> 00:03:08.860 me what your own rules are. As they pertain to service 00:03:08.868 --> 00:03:11.830 provider agreements, claim processes and more. This 00:03:11.838 --> 00:03:14.368 energy customer will be one of the crown jewels of 00:03:14.379 --> 00:03:16.819 Texas, a body that we can point to with pride both 00:03:16.830 --> 00:03:20.008 to be able to service for electricity and also as Texans 00:03:20.020 --> 00:03:22.629 to have such a prestigious institution in our own backyard 00:03:23.129 --> 00:03:25.258 And yet we run the risk of them choosing to go away 00:03:25.270 --> 00:03:28.740 entirely with natural gas generation because electricity 00:03:28.750 --> 00:03:31.399 has been so hard to nail down for this project core 00:03:31.409 --> 00:03:34.409 To all the troubles is the opacity that PUC has hides 00:03:34.419 --> 00:03:37.949 Potential devastation rules are unclear. Previous rulings 00:03:37.960 --> 00:03:40.080 are obscured and unsearchable and clarity on what the 00:03:40.088 --> 00:03:42.538 PUCs rules mean can apparently only be found by time 00:03:42.550 --> 00:03:46.139 consuming and costly method of a hearing. Now, hypothetically 00:03:46.149 --> 00:03:48.368 the PUC protects the right of generators and balances 00:03:48.379 --> 00:03:50.360 the good of the customers. But instead I find myself 00:03:50.368 --> 00:03:53.020 in a situation where I've even got two companies in 00:03:53.028 --> 00:03:55.058 a state of agreement, but may not be able to proceed 00:03:55.069 --> 00:03:56.800 under the current framework because both sides are 00:03:56.808 --> 00:03:58.750 worried that the PUC will come down on one or both 00:03:58.758 --> 00:04:01.588 of them because of the opacity of the rules. The only 00:04:01.599 --> 00:04:03.469 customer in this case is running out of time to know 00:04:03.479 --> 00:04:05.179 that the grid is committed to supporting them. But 00:04:05.189 --> 00:04:07.399 rather than standing up for a giant of a project here 00:04:07.409 --> 00:04:09.508 in Texas that has the support of the Governor. The 00:04:09.520 --> 00:04:11.740 PUC is a threat to the generators involved in their 00:04:11.750 --> 00:04:13.758 fears, threatening to permanently keep the project 00:04:13.770 --> 00:04:17.319 off the grid. Literally, every attempt is being made 00:04:17.329 --> 00:04:19.439 to try to comply with all the demands of the PUC. But 00:04:19.449 --> 00:04:21.588 unfortunately, it seemed like the PUC would rather 00:04:21.600 --> 00:04:23.689 maintain the shadow of destructive power than wield 00:04:23.699 --> 00:04:26.269 the sword of fairness and justice. And hopefully next 00:04:26.278 --> 00:04:28.129 time I'm here, I can express my appreciation and we 00:04:28.139 --> 00:04:30.559 can celebrate together one of the largest and most 00:04:30.569 --> 00:04:32.838 successful projects built in Texas, but that's not 00:04:32.850 --> 00:04:35.689 today. I apologize. Thank you for your time. (item:1:Chairwoman Jackson closes Public Comment) Thank 00:04:35.699 --> 00:04:37.928 you for your comments and taking time to provide your 00:04:37.939 --> 00:04:38.838 comments today. 00:04:43.259 --> 00:04:46.149 So having no one else signed up for public comment 00:04:46.160 --> 00:04:50.309 public comment is now closed. We're going to take up 00:04:50.319 --> 00:04:53.798 a couple of items out of order today. First, we'll 00:04:53.809 --> 00:04:58.350 take up items 35, 36 and 37 and then we'll proceed with 00:04:58.358 --> 00:05:01.579 going down the Regular Agenda. (item:35:Chairwoman Jackson lays out Project 54455 - 2023 Rulemaking Calendar) Let's start with items 00:05:01.588 --> 00:05:07.259 35 and 36 together, Project number 54455 - 2023 Rulemaking 00:05:07.269 --> 00:05:12.160 Calendar. (item:36:Chairwoman Jackson lays out Project 55156 - 88th Legislative Implementation Activities) And Project 55156, our 88th Legislative 00:05:12.170 --> 00:05:15.920 Implementation Activities. PUC Staff filed a memo on 00:05:15.928 --> 00:05:19.579 July 18 and identified the initial set of projects 00:05:19.588 --> 00:05:22.699 and policy priorities for us to consider. They hosted 00:05:22.709 --> 00:05:26.199 a public Legislative Implementation and Policy Priority 00:05:26.209 --> 00:05:30.119 Workshop on July 11. Which included three sessions 00:05:30.129 --> 00:05:33.850 telecommunications, water and sewer and electric. Staff 00:05:33.858 --> 00:05:36.920 allowed for public comment through July 14. We have 00:05:36.928 --> 00:05:40.480 David Smeltzer here to provide an overview of his memo. 00:05:41.480 --> 00:05:46.119 David, could you at this time please lay out your memo? 00:05:46.689 --> 00:05:48.730 (item:35:David Smeltzer, Commission Staff, lays out Staff's memo) Yes, ma'am. Thank you, David Smeltzer for Commission 00:05:48.738 --> 00:05:52.199 Staff. Jess here is with me as well from our GR Staff. 00:05:52.480 --> 00:05:55.819 As you outlined, we've been working to sort through 00:05:55.829 --> 00:05:57.970 all of the Legislation and the different rules that 00:05:57.980 --> 00:06:00.988 were required and establish priorities at this open 00:06:01.000 --> 00:06:03.939 meeting. We're requesting a sort of green light on 00:06:03.949 --> 00:06:06.369 the first set of rulemakings that we would like to 00:06:06.379 --> 00:06:09.500 move forward with. As you mentioned, we received commentary 00:06:09.509 --> 00:06:12.000 at three different public workshops, which was a really 00:06:12.009 --> 00:06:14.569 robust discussion. And we really appreciate everything 00:06:14.579 --> 00:06:17.220 that the stakeholders contributed in their filings 00:06:17.230 --> 00:06:21.358 and in their verbal comments. That's going to be especially 00:06:21.369 --> 00:06:26.178 helpful in establishing these priorities and also ranking 00:06:26.189 --> 00:06:29.939 additional rulemakings into the future. As we dedicate 00:06:29.949 --> 00:06:33.309 Staff resources, the ones that are on this list in 00:06:33.319 --> 00:06:36.720 the memo that I filed are split up by industry, electric 00:06:36.730 --> 00:06:40.399 water and telecom. And the criteria that we used is 00:06:40.410 --> 00:06:44.040 you know, the first pass was things that had an identifiable 00:06:44.048 --> 00:06:46.949 statutory deadline, had to make the list out of necessity. 00:06:47.259 --> 00:06:50.278 And then there were other things that had uh sort of 00:06:50.290 --> 00:06:53.358 an effective statutory deadline even though it wasn't 00:06:53.369 --> 00:06:56.290 specifically listed. But, you know, for instance, uh 00:06:57.069 --> 00:07:01.259 the 180 day transmission CCN was effect in effect immediately. 00:07:01.269 --> 00:07:04.238 So uh structuring our procedural rules to allow us 00:07:04.250 --> 00:07:07.160 to meet those goals was sort of a, a practical deadline. 00:07:07.170 --> 00:07:09.278 And so there are several things on here that have practical 00:07:09.290 --> 00:07:12.278 deadlines. And then there were a few items that are 00:07:12.290 --> 00:07:15.278 chosen because of sort of the high priority that they 00:07:15.290 --> 00:07:18.500 face. In the example that I'll say is ERCOT directives 00:07:18.509 --> 00:07:21.250 and governance. That's key so that we can structure 00:07:21.259 --> 00:07:24.500 and provide more transparency in the interactions that 00:07:24.509 --> 00:07:27.048 our agency has with ERCOT. And so there are a couple 00:07:27.059 --> 00:07:30.363 of additions on here that were based on either, you 00:07:30.375 --> 00:07:33.153 know, high priority like that or just convenience. 00:07:33.165 --> 00:07:35.634 If we already had a rule opening, we, we will continue 00:07:35.644 --> 00:07:39.713 on with those rather than starting again. And so that's 00:07:39.725 --> 00:07:42.894 the high level sort of way we were thinking about this. 00:07:42.903 --> 00:07:45.463 We have a list of rules here and uh Jess and I are happy 00:07:45.475 --> 00:07:47.074 to answer any questions you guys have. 00:07:50.170 --> 00:07:52.500 (item:35:Commissioner Glotfetly's comments on workshops) I don't have a question. I just want to say that uh 00:07:52.509 --> 00:07:55.129 I've heard from a lot of people that were very appreciative 00:07:55.139 --> 00:07:58.100 of the workshop that you all had. Uh I don't know whose 00:07:58.108 --> 00:08:01.238 idea it was, but uh they get a gold star. Because 00:08:01.309 --> 00:08:04.928 it really was a uh an opening of the door refreshing 00:08:04.939 --> 00:08:08.939 way to uh um get input from the uh from the stakeholders. 00:08:08.949 --> 00:08:11.319 And I'm really appreciative that uh that, that's a 00:08:11.329 --> 00:08:15.100 a corner that we've turned. (item:35:Commissioner McAdams' thoughts on workshops) Yeah I, I'd echo those 00:08:15.108 --> 00:08:19.129 comments. Um, I checked with various Senior Staff 00:08:19.139 --> 00:08:21.689 Members of the Legislature, they appreciated it. They 00:08:21.699 --> 00:08:24.689 thought it went well. They thought public input, 00:08:24.699 --> 00:08:27.730 uh industry input was well taken and taken in. 00:08:27.738 --> 00:08:32.168 Ultimately it, it was logic, it was a logic-based 00:08:32.178 --> 00:08:36.178 order that Staff pursued and, uh, now I believe we 00:08:36.190 --> 00:08:39.099 need to endorse that. And, and follow that as much as 00:08:39.109 --> 00:08:42.168 we can subject to change. But, uh, I believe it's a 00:08:42.178 --> 00:08:43.250 viable plan. 00:08:45.109 --> 00:08:47.399 (item:35:Commissioner Cobos' thoughts on workshops) Great. Um, I'm in agreement with the comments made 00:08:47.408 --> 00:08:50.479 by Commissioner Glotfelty and Commissioner McAdams. I think 00:08:50.489 --> 00:08:54.320 this is a formidable plan to move forward. And I appreciate 00:08:54.330 --> 00:08:57.599 all the work that was put into the rulemaking 00:08:57.609 --> 00:09:02.308 workshop and the layout of this memo. (item:36:Thomas Gleeson, PUC Executive Director on memo sent to Governor's Office & Legislative Committee) And Commissioners 00:09:02.320 --> 00:09:05.779 I would just add we. Yesterday, we sent this 00:09:05.788 --> 00:09:09.058 memo and list to both Committees of Jurisdiction, the 00:09:09.070 --> 00:09:11.109 Legislature and to the Governor's Office. And if we 00:09:11.119 --> 00:09:13.389 get any input in response to that. I'll, I'll 00:09:13.399 --> 00:09:14.288 keep you apprised. 00:09:16.308 --> 00:09:19.678 You bet. All right, well done David. Thank you Commissioners. 00:09:19.690 --> 00:09:22.849 And, and as per the memo, we'll provide a, a sort 00:09:22.859 --> 00:09:25.690 of a progress report at the September 28 Open 00:09:25.700 --> 00:09:28.379 Meeting. So you can keep tabs on how it's going. 00:09:29.288 --> 00:09:32.099 So very good, outline the things that need to 00:09:32.109 --> 00:09:35.119 move forward. And uh, we'll be continuing to have an 00:09:35.129 --> 00:09:38.529 eye on it, get input as we need along the way and 00:09:38.538 --> 00:09:43.298 then execute to the process so very well done. Thank you. Thank 00:09:43.308 --> 00:09:45.029 you for working with the members of the public and 00:09:45.038 --> 00:09:47.548 the stakeholders on this and we'll look forward to 00:09:47.558 --> 00:09:50.658 your upcoming progress reports. Thank you. 00:09:52.399 --> 00:09:56.269 (item:37:Chairwoman Jackson lays out item on agency and administrative issues) Next, we'll take up Item 37. Our standing item for Agency 00:09:56.279 --> 00:09:59.820 and Administrative Issues. Connie filed a memo. 00:09:59.830 --> 00:10:03.129 So could you please lay out your memo? Thank you. 00:10:03.139 --> 00:10:06.428 (item:37:Connie Corona with Commission Staff on 7-day rule for open meeting filings) Good morning, Commissioners. Yes. Last week, um, 00:10:06.460 --> 00:10:10.840 eight days ago in case you were counting. I, I filed a memo uh 00:10:10.849 --> 00:10:14.769 to our reminding our PUC fans about the 7-day rule 00:10:14.779 --> 00:10:19.840 for open meeting filings. Um As you know, the Commission's 00:10:19.849 --> 00:10:23.479 work has been proceeding over the past 2 1/2 years at 00:10:23.489 --> 00:10:26.479 a pretty rapid pace. That didn't always allow for strict 00:10:26.489 --> 00:10:30.960 compliance with that 7-day rule. It seems that 00:10:30.969 --> 00:10:34.700 has resulted in some less than ideal habits for filings 00:10:34.710 --> 00:10:39.479 on routine matters, non urgent items. And um I know 00:10:39.489 --> 00:10:44.259 you all make it look easy, but I urge parties to remember 00:10:44.269 --> 00:10:48.639 that for each open meeting, you all are giving thoughtful 00:10:48.649 --> 00:10:52.320 and careful consideration to two dozen or more separate 00:10:52.330 --> 00:10:57.719 matters. Today, it's 40. And it's simply not appropriate 00:10:57.729 --> 00:11:01.700 to routinely ask you to accommodate filings 24 to 48 00:11:01.710 --> 00:11:05.259 hours in advance of your deliberations. Thus, the 00:11:05.269 --> 00:11:09.859 reason for my memo, um I urge parties to review 16 00:11:09.869 --> 00:11:14.658 TAC 22.71 in our procedural rules to determine which 00:11:14.668 --> 00:11:17.918 items may be late filed for open meeting consideration. 00:11:18.389 --> 00:11:21.558 Um I'd also like to point to two filings made for this 00:11:21.570 --> 00:11:25.288 open meeting, one by Mr. Smeltzer and one by ERCOT. 00:11:25.918 --> 00:11:28.899 That each clearly state the reason for the information 00:11:28.908 --> 00:11:32.678 being late filed. Um I believe in that case, it was 00:11:32.690 --> 00:11:36.678 responsive to Commission request and delayed in 00:11:36.690 --> 00:11:39.719 order that you have the most recent information available 00:11:39.729 --> 00:11:44.048 for the open meeting. This is the type of information 00:11:44.418 --> 00:11:47.279 uh that immensely helps you in prioritizing for your 00:11:47.288 --> 00:11:50.019 open meeting preparations. And so I just wanted to 00:11:50.029 --> 00:11:53.369 call attention to that filing and remind parties accordingly. 00:11:54.580 --> 00:11:58.830 (item:37:Chairwoman Jackson on adherence to 7 day rule) So our expectation is that we would adhere to the file 00:11:58.840 --> 00:12:02.330 7 days prior to the open meeting. And then of course 00:12:02.340 --> 00:12:05.418 acknowledging that sometimes there may be extenuating 00:12:05.428 --> 00:12:07.750 circumstances when it's not possible. But if that's 00:12:07.759 --> 00:12:11.369 the case to please state, the reason in the memo. So 00:12:12.590 --> 00:12:16.418 very good. I think everyone wants to um again, have 00:12:16.428 --> 00:12:19.969 a process that is the most efficient and provides the 00:12:19.979 --> 00:12:23.070 most information in a timely manner. And gives everybody 00:12:23.080 --> 00:12:25.298 the opportunity they need to review it. So that we can 00:12:25.308 --> 00:12:28.879 have the absolute best work product possible. So 00:12:29.109 --> 00:12:33.139 um thank you very much for the memo and we'll move 00:12:33.149 --> 00:12:37.229 forward. (item:37:Thomas Gleeson with a Staff update) Madam Chair, I had one other update for everyone's 00:12:37.239 --> 00:12:41.678 edification for a Staff update. So as some of you all 00:12:41.690 --> 00:12:44.590 may know, Tom Hunter is retiring for I believe the 00:12:44.599 --> 00:12:47.178 5th time from this agency. I don't know if I'm gonna 00:12:47.190 --> 00:12:50.678 be able to get him back again. Um, but that leaves 00:12:50.690 --> 00:12:53.788 a, you know, a glaring void on Staff um for kind of 00:12:53.798 --> 00:12:56.899 an Executive Counsel. And so I want to let everyone 00:12:56.908 --> 00:12:58.940 know that David Gordon, formerly of Chairman Lake's 00:12:58.950 --> 00:13:01.519 office has agreed to take over that role. And we're, 00:13:01.529 --> 00:13:03.849 we're immensely grateful to him for, for being willing 00:13:03.859 --> 00:13:05.808 to step into Tom's role. Here, here. 00:13:11.149 --> 00:13:16.119 I'm so glad. He'll be busy, very busy. Okay. We'll go back to the 00:13:16.129 --> 00:13:18.619 normal order of the Agenda. Now, beginning with Item 00:13:18.629 --> 00:13:21.629 No. 2. Shelah, will you please lay out this item? 00:13:22.029 --> 00:13:26.129 (item:2:Shelah Cisneros lays out petition of multiple MUDs appealing City of Round Rock's wholesale water & wastewater rates) Yes, ma'am. Item No. 2 is Docket No. 48836. 00:13:26.340 --> 00:13:29.658 This is the petition of Paloma Lake Municipal Utility 00:13:29.668 --> 00:13:33.950 Districts 1 and 2, Vista Oaks Municipal Utility District, 00:13:33.960 --> 00:13:36.599 Williamson County Municipal Utility District No. 00:13:36.609 --> 00:13:39.960 10 and Williamson County Municipal Utility District 00:13:39.969 --> 00:13:42.979 No. 11. Appealing the wholesale water and wastewater 00:13:42.989 --> 00:13:46.359 rates at the City of Round Rock at the April 00:13:46.369 --> 00:13:49.389 27 open meeting. The Commission considered the petitioner's 00:13:49.399 --> 00:13:53.259 appeal of SOAH Order No. 30. This item was placed 00:13:53.269 --> 00:13:54.149 on today's Agenda. 00:13:56.090 --> 00:14:00.340 All right. (item:2:Commissioner Cobos asks to defer consideration of item until next meeting) So I'm preparing a memo and need more time 00:14:00.349 --> 00:14:03.849 to finalize the memo. So I would ask that we defer 00:14:03.859 --> 00:14:07.099 consideration of this item to the next open meeting 00:14:07.190 --> 00:14:09.369 I'm really glad she's preparing a memo on. 00:14:11.109 --> 00:14:14.538 Thank you, Commissioner McAdams. My pleasure. Okay, very 00:14:14.548 --> 00:14:18.460 good. So we will not be taking that the item up on 00:14:18.469 --> 00:14:23.619 this today's Agenda. Items 3, 4, 5 and 6 were Consented. 00:14:23.719 --> 00:14:26.668 Next up is Item No. 7. Shelah, will you please 00:14:26.678 --> 00:14:29.769 lay out this item? (item:7:Shelah Cisneros lays out application of Texas Water Utilities & Creek Water STM certificate rights in Marion County) Yes. Item No. 7 is Docket 00:14:29.779 --> 00:14:34.729 No. 53920. The application of Texas Water Utilities 00:14:34.739 --> 00:14:38.399 and Creek Water Utility for the sale, transfer or merger 00:14:38.408 --> 00:14:41.239 of facilities and certificate rights in Marion County. 00:14:41.428 --> 00:14:44.460 Before you is an appeal of Order No. 21 filed by 00:14:44.469 --> 00:14:46.000 Texas Water Utilities. 00:14:47.788 --> 00:14:51.759 Do we have any thoughts on this one? (item:7:Commissioner McAdam's comments on application) Yeah. Um Madam 00:14:51.769 --> 00:14:54.519 Chair, Members. I, I do not agree. First of all with 00:14:54.529 --> 00:14:57.989 the assertions made by Texas Water Utilities um that 00:14:58.000 --> 00:15:02.190 an STM is not a specific type of CCN amendment. 00:15:02.200 --> 00:15:06.099 These dockets are for sale or acquisition of a water 00:15:06.109 --> 00:15:10.509 sewer, sewer system only. Concurrent CCN amendments 00:15:10.519 --> 00:15:13.808 are allowed in an STM proceeding for efficiency. Uh 00:15:13.820 --> 00:15:17.629 but the rules and statutes governing an STM application 00:15:17.639 --> 00:15:20.330 did not supplant the rules governing a CCN amendment 00:15:20.788 --> 00:15:24.989 uh in such a scenario. As such, I believe notice is 00:15:25.000 --> 00:15:29.158 required and, and I would move that the Commission. 00:15:29.168 --> 00:15:31.440 For the Commission to issue an order in the interim 00:15:31.450 --> 00:15:35.369 appeal, upholding the ALJs required notice and denying 00:15:35.379 --> 00:15:37.889 the interim appeal. But would welcome any thoughts. 00:15:39.200 --> 00:15:41.769 (item:7:Commissioner Cobos' thoughts on application) I'm in agreement as well with Commissioner McAdams. 00:15:41.798 --> 00:15:45.719 That the notice requirements apply to the, the notice 00:15:45.729 --> 00:15:48.908 requirements that are related to a CCN amendment apply 00:15:48.918 --> 00:15:49.808 to an STM case. 00:15:51.710 --> 00:15:57.349 I support it. Got three. Okay. Very good. (item:7:Motion to deny the interim appeal) So I, I would move to 00:15:57.359 --> 00:15:59.750 the Commission issue an order on interim appeal, upholding 00:15:59.759 --> 00:16:03.229 the ALJs required notice and denying the interim appeal. 00:16:03.918 --> 00:16:07.779 Do I have a second? Second. All in favor, say aye. Aye. 00:16:07.788 --> 00:16:09.009 Motion passes. 00:16:11.349 --> 00:16:15.879 Items 8, 9, 10 and 11 were Consented. Item 12 will not 00:16:15.889 --> 00:16:20.109 be taken up. I don't have anything on Item 13 or 00:16:20.119 --> 00:16:26.450 14, unless y'all do? No. Item 15 was Consented. Next up 00:16:26.460 --> 00:16:29.690 is Item No. 16. Shelah, will you please lay out 00:16:29.700 --> 00:16:33.099 this item? (item:16:Shelah Cisneros lays out SWEPCO's rehearing application for a CCN) Yes, ma'am. Item No. 16 is Docket No. 00:16:33.109 --> 00:16:38.070 53625. This is the application of SWEPCO for a CCN and 00:16:38.080 --> 00:16:41.408 related to lead for the acquisition of generation facilities. 00:16:41.558 --> 00:16:45.599 Before you are motions for rehearing filed by SWEPCO, Card 00:16:45.609 --> 00:16:46.590 and TIEC. 00:16:48.489 --> 00:16:51.830 (item:16:Motion to extend time to act to maximum extent) Madam Chair, I would move to extend the time to act 00:16:51.840 --> 00:16:54.288 on the motions for rehearing to the maximum extent 00:16:54.298 --> 00:16:59.979 permitted by law. Very good. I support it. Do I have a second? Yes. Second. 00:17:00.158 --> 00:17:06.638 All in favor, say aye. Aye. Motion passes. Items 17, 18, 19, 20, 00:17:06.648 --> 00:17:10.019 21 and 22 were Consented. I don't have anything on 00:17:10.028 --> 00:17:15.019 Items 23 or 24, unless y'all do. (item:25:Chairwoman Jackson lays out Project 53298) Next up is Item No. 00:17:15.028 --> 00:17:20.307 25, Project 53298. Our wholesale electric market design 00:17:20.317 --> 00:17:23.239 implementation project. Today we're going to discuss 00:17:23.250 --> 00:17:26.900 Firm Fuel Supply Service Phase 2. As a reminder, 00:17:26.959 --> 00:17:29.989 Harika provided an overview of Staff's memo filed on 00:17:30.000 --> 00:17:33.348 June 22 at our last open meeting for the Phase 2 00:17:33.358 --> 00:17:36.108 program parameters to be defined. 00:17:37.640 --> 00:17:41.160 Harika is already up here in case we have any questions. So 00:17:41.170 --> 00:17:43.289 do we have thoughts or discussion on this? 00:17:46.209 --> 00:17:49.699 (item:25:Commissioner Cobos' thoughts on Staff's memo) I appreciate, you know, you all waiting for me to come 00:17:49.709 --> 00:17:53.578 back to help part be part of the deliberation on this 00:17:53.588 --> 00:17:57.459 Firm Fuel Phase 2 initiative. And um I, I don't know 00:17:57.469 --> 00:18:01.250 if you all would want Harika to lay out the Staff memo that 00:18:01.259 --> 00:18:04.489 would be helpful. But um I'm generally in agreement 00:18:04.500 --> 00:18:07.259 with all of the recommendations that Staff provided in their 00:18:07.699 --> 00:18:12.500 memo. And um would like to highlight one point of clarification 00:18:13.180 --> 00:18:17.750 believe that is on um Page 00:18:19.430 --> 00:18:22.160 3 of the memo. Um 00:18:23.858 --> 00:18:27.410 Staff talks about that they recommend that generation 00:18:27.420 --> 00:18:30.420 resources that use fuel other than natural gas such 00:18:30.430 --> 00:18:34.189 as oil and renewable diesel that can be stored on site 00:18:34.390 --> 00:18:36.309 would meet all the requirements and should be allowed 00:18:36.318 --> 00:18:40.479 to participate in phase two of this product. One point 00:18:40.489 --> 00:18:43.118 of clarification. I'd like to highlight is that um 00:18:43.209 --> 00:18:46.449 other than natural gas does not include coal and nuclear. 00:18:47.420 --> 00:18:51.959 Correct. I'm, I'm in agreement with that. I think 00:18:51.969 --> 00:18:54.838 that's helpful. Um clarification to provide to ERCOT 00:18:54.848 --> 00:18:58.189 as the issue of the RFP and work on implementing the 00:18:58.199 --> 00:19:00.598 procurement for Phase 2. No, we don't want to create 00:19:00.608 --> 00:19:03.150 the door. Uh leave the door open for arguments at ERCOT 00:19:03.160 --> 00:19:07.299 on this one man. That'd be fun. Uh No, I'm being facetious. 00:19:07.410 --> 00:19:11.279 Okay. It's just for fuel oil just to give an example. 00:19:11.598 --> 00:19:11.739 Yes. 00:19:14.410 --> 00:19:18.019 So just for the record, Harika would you be willing to walk 00:19:18.029 --> 00:19:20.529 us through that? Just so everybody hears the, the framework 00:19:20.539 --> 00:19:23.880 that we're endorsing today. Yes. (item:25:Harika Basaran with Commission Staff lays out Staff's memo) This is for the 00:19:23.890 --> 00:19:28.529 second contract period and has to issue the RFP by 00:19:28.549 --> 00:19:31.430 a first. That's why they need these parameters because 00:19:31.439 --> 00:19:34.598 these parameters currently are not in the rule or in 00:19:34.608 --> 00:19:39.029 the protocol. So the first one is really the uh quantity 00:19:39.400 --> 00:19:43.568 and we recommend not specifying any specific limit 00:19:43.578 --> 00:19:45.969 and that our decide the quantity because you don't 00:19:45.979 --> 00:19:49.029 have a reliability target or the demand curve. The 00:19:49.039 --> 00:19:52.588 second one is the budget $54 billion was the cost cap 00:19:52.598 --> 00:19:55.259 for the only stand by payments. And we want to keep 00:19:55.269 --> 00:19:58.660 that the same to give a certainty to the industry. 00:19:58.670 --> 00:20:01.838 And also for the Lord serving entities, they know what 00:20:01.848 --> 00:20:06.250 cost maximum can be on the offer cap. That's where 00:20:06.259 --> 00:20:10.739 we recommend a change. It's based on the fuel oil index 00:20:10.750 --> 00:20:14.568 times a heat rate of 15 which is a generous heat rate 00:20:14.578 --> 00:20:18.328 The reason for the to cover for the um compliance risk 00:20:18.338 --> 00:20:22.650 or any other thing. And currently the last latest number 00:20:22.660 --> 00:20:27.140 I got for the index from was around $12 per MBTU. 00:20:27.150 --> 00:20:31.449 And that didn't change as of today. So we are uh the 00:20:31.459 --> 00:20:36.769 same formula. It, it gets us $9000 per Megawatt, the 00:20:36.779 --> 00:20:41.140 period obligation period, we still recommend 48 hours 00:20:41.150 --> 00:20:44.719 But for the future phases, then the gas, they have 00:20:44.729 --> 00:20:47.568 a long holiday. So people have to buy gas four day 00:20:47.578 --> 00:20:51.029 in advance. You may have to take your guidance. We 00:20:51.039 --> 00:20:55.064 want to allocate that $4 million among multiple uh periods. 00:20:55.074 --> 00:20:58.384 It just something for you to think for the future periods. 00:20:58.775 --> 00:21:02.424 Another thing really requested. Uh clarification is 00:21:02.434 --> 00:21:05.904 expansion of technologies, some battery and some settlement 00:21:05.914 --> 00:21:09.233 only generators are approaching them to participate 00:21:09.243 --> 00:21:11.555 in the program. We really think we need maybe a little 00:21:11.564 --> 00:21:15.164 bit more time because has a very specific requirements 00:21:15.174 --> 00:21:18.219 for who can participate in this program. But our only 00:21:18.229 --> 00:21:21.880 concern is it's not a competitive liquid market. Even 00:21:21.890 --> 00:21:25.140 with this phase two, there is only 500 Megawatt capacity 00:21:25.150 --> 00:21:28.469 available. So it will be good to think about how we 00:21:28.479 --> 00:21:31.608 can make this a more liquid and more competitive market. 00:21:33.420 --> 00:21:35.989 And just like with the other services that we've rolled 00:21:36.000 --> 00:21:37.818 out, it would be nice to see how this plays a little 00:21:37.828 --> 00:21:39.809 bit before we open up 00:21:41.828 --> 00:21:46.380 the service. And then ERCOT should also continue to 00:21:46.390 --> 00:21:49.750 use a single clearing price and take out any offers 00:21:49.759 --> 00:21:50.400 which are at los. 00:21:53.838 --> 00:21:59.250 I think this is a policy win. Okay. All right, good. Thank 00:21:59.259 --> 00:22:01.789 you Harika for laying that out. And, and thank you again 00:22:01.799 --> 00:22:04.759 for waiting for me to get back to help deliberate on 00:22:04.769 --> 00:22:08.209 this. And I think this is um good to go for our 00:22:08.420 --> 00:22:12.078 PV in by ERCOT on August 1. Okay. So ERCOT is here 00:22:12.088 --> 00:22:15.348 Does that give you everything you need? Yes. Okay. They're 00:22:15.358 --> 00:22:20.328 nodding. Yes. Okay. So, um, we'll be moving forward and 00:22:20.338 --> 00:22:23.039 uh, ERCOT has what we need and so I'm with the show. 00:22:23.049 --> 00:22:24.039 Thank you so much. 00:22:26.410 --> 00:22:31.400 (item:26:Chairwoman Jackson lays out Project 54444) Next up is Item No. 26, Project 54444. We're going 00:22:31.410 --> 00:22:34.328 to discuss the Temperature Standard Preparing for Winter 00:22:34.338 --> 00:22:39.009 Weather Windchill. ERCOT submitted another filing 00:22:39.019 --> 00:22:42.750 on July 13, to clarify their previous memo discussed 00:22:42.759 --> 00:22:45.439 at the last open meeting. We have Woody with ERCOT 00:22:45.459 --> 00:22:49.259 here. And Woody, would you come up and lay out your 00:22:49.269 --> 00:22:50.358 memo please? 00:23:01.959 --> 00:23:03.588 (item:26:Woody Rickerson with ERCOT lays out ERCOT's memo) Good morning Woody Rickerson, ERCOT. 00:23:05.920 --> 00:23:09.769 So you want me to lay out the memo? Yes please. Okay. So this 00:23:09.779 --> 00:23:13.108 was a clarification to the uh the first memo that we 00:23:13.118 --> 00:23:18.068 put out. Um So it's divided into two parts, there's 00:23:18.078 --> 00:23:20.900 an A and a B. So the first part is talking about 00:23:20.910 --> 00:23:24.500 the adequacy of the weather declarations that we sent 00:23:24.588 --> 00:23:28.519 in okay. Okay. So this is uh how do you the initial 00:23:28.529 --> 00:23:32.509 determination of the adequacy. So the first paragraph 00:23:32.519 --> 00:23:36.368 talks about the fact that uh when market participants 00:23:36.380 --> 00:23:41.338 resource owners look at the chart that has weather 00:23:41.348 --> 00:23:44.979 zones and a temperature, what do they do with that 00:23:44.989 --> 00:23:49.779 temperature? Okay. So market participants or the resource 00:23:49.789 --> 00:23:53.670 owners will provide a temperature and a wind speed 00:23:54.559 --> 00:23:58.660 to ERCOT when they submit their declaration and they'll 00:23:58.670 --> 00:24:03.189 use that temperature and wind speed to calculate a 00:24:03.199 --> 00:24:06.680 number that's equivalent to the number on in the chart 00:24:06.689 --> 00:24:09.689 A number they can compare against in the chart. So 00:24:09.699 --> 00:24:11.469 that's the first requirement. That's what Paragraph 00:24:11.479 --> 00:24:13.769 1 talks about. And what are they comparing that to 00:24:13.779 --> 00:24:17.078 Woody? They're comparing it to the 95th percentile 00:24:17.088 --> 00:24:19.969 minimum, average 72 hour windchill temperature. That's 00:24:19.979 --> 00:24:21.890 in the chart. And there's a number associated with 00:24:21.900 --> 00:24:24.199 each weather zone and their design specifications. 00:24:24.209 --> 00:24:27.150 Right. Right. And so when they send us their Winter 00:24:27.160 --> 00:24:30.568 declaration, tell us what they did to prepare for Winter 00:24:30.578 --> 00:24:34.338 weather. They'll include a temperature that they use 00:24:34.348 --> 00:24:37.640 a design standard temperature and a wind speed. 00:24:39.219 --> 00:24:42.209 So we use those two numbers and we provide the calculation 00:24:42.500 --> 00:24:46.000 to calculate a number that's equivalent to the 95th 00:24:46.009 --> 00:24:48.529 percentile minimum average 72 hour windchill division. 00:24:49.250 --> 00:24:54.750 So that's Paragraph 1. Paragraph 2 says that if 00:24:54.759 --> 00:24:58.578 that calculated design temperature that they used is 00:24:58.588 --> 00:25:01.529 less than the number in the chart, 00:25:03.108 --> 00:25:05.769 then we'll consider that preparation to have met the 00:25:05.779 --> 00:25:06.239 standard. 00:25:08.469 --> 00:25:13.459 So if you take one of these coastal weather zone, the 00:25:13.479 --> 00:25:16.699 uh the 95th percentile minimum average 32 hour windchill 00:25:16.709 --> 00:25:22.729 temperature is 18.1 degrees. So when they send us their 00:25:22.739 --> 00:25:26.380 winter declaration and it has a temperature and a wind 00:25:26.390 --> 00:25:29.219 speed plugging into the equation. If it comes out to 00:25:29.229 --> 00:25:32.689 be less than 18.1 degrees, then we'll consider the 00:25:32.699 --> 00:25:36.420 preparations to have met the standard. So that's Paragraph 00:25:36.430 --> 00:25:40.318 2 Paragraph 3 says though, if it comes out to 00:25:40.328 --> 00:25:43.068 be 20 degrees, so they're gonna have to do some extra 00:25:43.078 --> 00:25:46.219 work. To get that down to something equivalent to 18 00:25:46.229 --> 00:25:51.489 degrees. Paragraph 4, just says that we're gonna 00:25:51.500 --> 00:25:54.769 add a place in the decoration for them to give us those 00:25:54.779 --> 00:25:59.029 numbers. Paragraph 5 says that there, there 00:25:59.039 --> 00:26:02.469 may be some places, some plants that may not have that 00:26:02.479 --> 00:26:04.338 number, that original design 00:26:05.939 --> 00:26:07.420 and so they're gonna have to derive one. 00:26:09.880 --> 00:26:15.549 Paragraph um 6. It just says that, you know, we 00:26:15.559 --> 00:26:18.160 may request the records and stuff during the inspection. 00:26:18.170 --> 00:26:20.900 Paragraph 7, talks about what we're gonna do with 00:26:20.910 --> 00:26:25.469 uh uh for new facilities, right? They should have meet 00:26:25.479 --> 00:26:27.789 the standard of the new facilities be very conservative. 00:26:28.539 --> 00:26:30.618 So that's Section A and then it has to do. Woody, 00:26:30.630 --> 00:26:32.828 just real quick. Will you move the microphone closer 00:26:32.838 --> 00:26:33.588 Sorry about that. 00:26:35.509 --> 00:26:40.150 So that has to do with the uh the preparation standard. 00:26:40.160 --> 00:26:42.759 The uh the declaration, what goes into the declaration. 00:26:43.809 --> 00:26:50.779 (item:26:Woody Rickerson on 2nd section of ERCOT's memo) So the second area is the evaluation um of failures. 00:26:51.328 --> 00:26:54.459 So once the standards have been set, we we would go 00:26:54.469 --> 00:26:58.959 into the winner. We'd have done the inspections, looked 00:26:58.969 --> 00:27:02.358 at all the decorations. What happens if there is a 00:27:02.368 --> 00:27:06.848 failure, cold weather related failure, a pipe freezes 00:27:06.858 --> 00:27:11.130 something like that. So, Paragraph 1 says that um 00:27:11.529 --> 00:27:15.969 if the facility has a apparent weather related failure 00:27:15.979 --> 00:27:19.549 when the ambient temperature, the non wind speed temperature. 00:27:19.559 --> 00:27:22.949 The ambient temperature is above the chart value. So 00:27:22.959 --> 00:27:27.588 let's say you're in that zone that has 18 degrees and 00:27:27.598 --> 00:27:33.420 you have a failure at 19 degrees. Okay. Is another word 00:27:33.430 --> 00:27:36.279 for ambient, the actual temperature? The actual temperature 00:27:36.289 --> 00:27:38.910 dry bulb temperature. Don't say dry 00:27:41.608 --> 00:27:43.729 bulb. Right. That's off limits. Got you. 00:27:45.309 --> 00:27:50.309 So that's Paragraph 1. Paragraph 2 says that, um 00:27:50.868 --> 00:27:55.118 if so, so if it's above that, if it's below that temperature 00:27:55.838 --> 00:27:59.068 then they met, they, they failed at a point that's 00:27:59.078 --> 00:28:01.459 beyond the standard. It's above the temperature. We're 00:28:01.469 --> 00:28:04.000 gonna have to investigate. Paragraph 2 says if we 00:28:04.009 --> 00:28:07.088 go out and investigate and at the time of the failure 00:28:07.098 --> 00:28:11.680 the windchill of the wind speed and the temperature 00:28:11.689 --> 00:28:15.338 result in a number that is below the standard, they're 00:28:15.348 --> 00:28:20.088 probably ok. And that assumes that, you know, the preparations 00:28:20.098 --> 00:28:23.920 that they made are actually in place. If the preparations 00:28:23.930 --> 00:28:27.019 say they're gonna put a wind break up somewhere and 00:28:27.029 --> 00:28:29.328 we go out and it's not there, then that would be different 00:28:29.799 --> 00:28:33.299 But if paragraph two says, you know, if the, if the 00:28:33.309 --> 00:28:35.680 actual calculated windshield value 00:28:37.229 --> 00:28:39.608 at the time of the weather related failure is below 00:28:39.618 --> 00:28:43.709 the chart value, we won't consider that to be a violation. 00:28:44.989 --> 00:28:47.469 I think that's an important, we won't consider that 00:28:47.479 --> 00:28:51.299 to be a violation. However, Paragraph 3 says that 00:28:51.660 --> 00:28:55.269 at the time of the failure at the calculated windshield 00:28:55.279 --> 00:28:59.539 value is above that standard, then we'll have to do 00:28:59.549 --> 00:29:04.430 some more work. And, and you assess it and I'm sure 00:29:04.439 --> 00:29:08.328 if you'd uh uh give me some room. (item:26:Commissioner McAdams' summary of ERCOT's memo) I, I would just 00:29:08.338 --> 00:29:12.250 uh pose a summary of what we just heard from Woody 00:29:12.259 --> 00:29:15.809 and uh in my own language. And um 00:29:17.328 --> 00:29:19.229 I think you could tell from our discussion at the last 00:29:19.239 --> 00:29:21.259 open meeting that some questions need to be answered. 00:29:21.269 --> 00:29:24.910 And I believe they have been by this new uh reformatted 00:29:25.279 --> 00:29:33.410 um filing and in ERCOT's interpretation of 25.55. So 00:29:33.420 --> 00:29:37.049 for the initial determination of preparedness generators 00:29:37.059 --> 00:29:41.108 and transmission operators will report to ERCOT, uh 00:29:41.118 --> 00:29:43.630 the temperature rating of a given facility within a 00:29:43.640 --> 00:29:47.630 zone. So we have that if that facility's preparations 00:29:47.640 --> 00:29:51.930 are for a temperature above the zonal chart um chart 00:29:51.939 --> 00:29:55.068 value, additional preparation would be required in 00:29:55.078 --> 00:29:58.318 those instances. If it's below, then no additional 00:29:58.328 --> 00:30:01.578 preparation would be required under our standard. Now 00:30:01.588 --> 00:30:04.170 that sounds right to you. Shaking your head. Yes, good 00:30:04.509 --> 00:30:07.299 And we're talking about the calculated combination 00:30:07.309 --> 00:30:10.750 of a ambient temperature and the wind. Which is chart 00:30:10.759 --> 00:30:11.259 value. 00:30:12.939 --> 00:30:15.900 In the event of a failure. ERCOT will determine if 00:30:15.910 --> 00:30:20.039 the ambient or actual temperature was above the chart 00:30:20.049 --> 00:30:23.630 value. Uh The subsequent evaluation will consider the 00:30:23.640 --> 00:30:26.650 effect that windchill had on a generation or transmission 00:30:26.660 --> 00:30:30.939 failure. So first, if the actual windchill temperature 00:30:30.949 --> 00:30:34.469 at the time of a failure is below the chart value and 00:30:34.479 --> 00:30:37.618 weather preparation steps have been maintained, you'll 00:30:37.630 --> 00:30:41.818 consider that, then ERCOT would not consider a facility 00:30:41.828 --> 00:30:44.150 to be in violation of weatherization standards. And 00:30:44.160 --> 00:30:47.338 they have in my words, safe harbor at that point. 00:30:49.180 --> 00:30:51.959 And if the actual windchill temperature is above the 00:30:51.969 --> 00:30:54.920 chart value, then ERCOT may determine that whether 00:30:54.930 --> 00:30:57.949 preparation measures were improper or inadequate. And 00:30:57.959 --> 00:31:01.150 I emphasize the word may, it's your discretion to do 00:31:01.160 --> 00:31:04.289 that and that of enforcement. Um, 00:31:06.098 --> 00:31:10.568 and cures and remedies outlined uh, in Section 25.55 00:31:10.578 --> 00:31:14.368 may apply. And so you'll take that two step evaluation. 00:31:14.380 --> 00:31:19.348 Now, is that correct? (item:26:Woody Rickerson's follow-up to Commissioner McAdams' memo summary) I would add one, one bit to that in. 00:31:19.358 --> 00:31:23.529 Uh, Paragraph 1 in order to try to make this as simple 00:31:23.539 --> 00:31:26.469 as possible for a resource owner. And that was our 00:31:26.479 --> 00:31:30.108 goal here. Um We said if you're a resource owner and 00:31:30.118 --> 00:31:32.689 you're at your facility, look at the thermometer at 00:31:32.699 --> 00:31:36.199 the time of the failure. If at the time of the failure 00:31:36.868 --> 00:31:40.680 the temperature is below the chart value without even 00:31:40.689 --> 00:31:42.910 looking at wind speed. If it's below the chart value 00:31:42.920 --> 00:31:47.108 you're, you're okay. This other stuff only applies. 00:31:47.118 --> 00:31:50.568 We're only gonna come out and look when it's above 00:31:50.578 --> 00:31:52.390 that chart value. And then when we come out and look 00:31:52.400 --> 00:31:54.318 when you calculate the wind speed, it may bring it 00:31:54.328 --> 00:31:57.039 down below. Barksdale, you have approached and do you 00:31:57.049 --> 00:32:00.130 have a view on that? (item:26:Barksdale English with Commission Staff on clarifying language) Thank you, Commissioner. Barksdale 00:32:00.160 --> 00:32:03.328 English, on behalf of Commission Staff. Um I, I stood 00:32:03.338 --> 00:32:06.299 up because you said the word safe harbor. And as an 00:32:06.309 --> 00:32:09.449 enforcement guy that, that makes my ears prick up a 00:32:09.459 --> 00:32:13.789 little bit. Sure. And um, so I just want to be clear 00:32:13.799 --> 00:32:20.858 that when an entity is reporting its actual temperature 00:32:20.868 --> 00:32:25.299 and wind speed values to ERCOT. And the formula results 00:32:25.309 --> 00:32:31.670 in a value that is less than the chart value. They 00:32:31.680 --> 00:32:36.098 will have passed one of many tests that the rule requires. 00:32:36.660 --> 00:32:39.630 I, I hear you. Yeah, there are other parts of the rule 00:32:39.640 --> 00:32:42.828 that, that applied this. So you have to evaluate the 00:32:42.838 --> 00:32:48.189 entire rule of it, in its entirety. And it's not just stepping across 00:32:48.199 --> 00:32:51.318 that one threshold or jumping that one hurdle the. I withdraw the safe 00:32:54.509 --> 00:33:00.930 harbor comment, my obligation ends now. Thank you, sir. Okay. (item:26:Commissioner McAdams on reach out to major generators) Um Madam Chair so I, I will tell 00:33:00.939 --> 00:33:03.930 you in the, in the background. Um I've reached out 00:33:03.939 --> 00:33:09.118 to uh major generators including Vistra, NRG, um LCRA 00:33:09.130 --> 00:33:12.068 And our Staff has heard back from Calpine which was 00:33:12.078 --> 00:33:15.588 an interested party uh at the, at our last open meeting. 00:33:15.969 --> 00:33:19.088 Feedback is they all believe this is a workable 00:33:19.098 --> 00:33:24.739 plan. Um and that uh they could work to comply with 00:33:24.750 --> 00:33:28.009 this standard. So that gave me confidence that I believe 00:33:28.019 --> 00:33:30.750 this may be a workable framework and appreciate the 00:33:30.759 --> 00:33:34.549 work of our Staff and ERCOT to articulate that. And 00:33:34.559 --> 00:33:38.959 give the system confidence that this is not a gotcha 00:33:39.299 --> 00:33:43.689 um system. That there is a uh that there's clarity. And 00:33:43.699 --> 00:33:46.650 that our stakeholders have the opportunity to comply 00:33:46.660 --> 00:33:50.469 with it. (item:26:Chairwoman Jackson's comments on ERCOT's memo) I think this demonstrates at least to me that 00:33:50.479 --> 00:33:56.299 the process is working that we put out. I guess a memo 00:33:56.309 --> 00:33:59.219 people had the opportunity to take a look at it. They 00:33:59.229 --> 00:34:02.078 maybe noted some things that weren't as clear as they 00:34:02.088 --> 00:34:05.689 would have liked them to be Staff and work together 00:34:05.699 --> 00:34:09.510 in clarifying that. Again, I think given the direction 00:34:09.519 --> 00:34:12.619 to the operator during the design phase. So that's 00:34:12.628 --> 00:34:15.619 very clear. So they can be positioned to comply because 00:34:15.628 --> 00:34:18.579 we know this is very important. And then secondly, 00:34:18.728 --> 00:34:23.099 better clarification and direction in terms of in the 00:34:23.110 --> 00:34:26.744 event that there is a failure. Then how does that kind 00:34:26.753 --> 00:34:31.523 of fit in, in terms of the of the compliance measures 00:34:31.534 --> 00:34:34.394 kind of moving forward? So I kind of see it as a 00:34:34.405 --> 00:34:38.563 win on on all fronts. And just again, appreciate the 00:34:38.574 --> 00:34:42.014 work of Staff, of ERCOT, and of our compliance team. And 00:34:42.273 --> 00:34:44.804 you know, just I think all of this just makes us better 00:34:44.813 --> 00:34:46.824 moving forward because we have more clarity. 00:34:49.208 --> 00:34:52.510 What do you guys think? (item:26:Commissioner Cobos' thoughts on ERCOT's memo) Agreed. I, I agreed on, on all points. 00:34:52.519 --> 00:34:54.079 And thank you, Commissioner McAdams for taking the 00:34:54.090 --> 00:34:58.489 lead on this important issue. Um and it, it the whole 00:34:58.500 --> 00:35:01.570 concept of weatherization preparation standards is 00:35:01.579 --> 00:35:05.030 an evolving process, right? Um You know, we have Phase 00:35:05.039 --> 00:35:08.369 1, we have Phase two. You know we, we now have Summer 00:35:08.378 --> 00:35:11.409 in place and we have FERC and NERC. That are in the process of 00:35:11.418 --> 00:35:13.458 adopting their standard at some point, we'll have to 00:35:13.469 --> 00:35:17.458 revisit the standards. But as the process evolves, 00:35:17.469 --> 00:35:20.719 what's important as I think Chair Jackson's highlighted. 00:35:20.918 --> 00:35:24.340 Is that the industry as a whole evolves with that process 00:35:24.349 --> 00:35:27.340 and rises to the standards that we are putting in place. 00:35:27.349 --> 00:35:30.938 And, and it's a, it's a working work in progress. But 00:35:30.949 --> 00:35:35.260 we have received a lot of great benefits from these 00:35:35.269 --> 00:35:38.978 weatherization standards. And um got a lot of good information 00:35:38.989 --> 00:35:41.280 from the stakeholders, both the generators and the 00:35:41.289 --> 00:35:45.699 transmission owners. On their practical realities and 00:35:45.708 --> 00:35:48.228 um in, in their areas of how we can make this all 00:35:48.239 --> 00:35:51.320 work. And, and I think that we have come a long way 00:35:51.329 --> 00:35:54.570 and as the process continues to evolve, I think we'll 00:35:54.579 --> 00:35:56.500 even garner more benefits in the future. 00:35:58.510 --> 00:36:02.429 (item:26:Commissioner Glotfetly's thoughts on ERCOT's memo) I think we've ended up in a good spot and I'm eager 00:36:02.438 --> 00:36:06.250 to see us go forward. And as in everything here at the 00:36:06.260 --> 00:36:09.750 Commission. If it needs to be modified, I know we'll 00:36:09.760 --> 00:36:13.449 do it. So I appreciate your hard work Woody with with industry. 00:36:13.844 --> 00:36:16.715 Barksdale as well. So, thank you. I'd also like to say this 00:36:16.724 --> 00:36:19.043 is a lesson for all Commissioners at the dais. That 00:36:19.054 --> 00:36:21.434 if you say one thing at a House Oversight Committee 00:36:21.445 --> 00:36:25.184 Hearing, then you've got ownership of an issue. And 00:36:25.195 --> 00:36:28.195 um so. I, I appreciate ERCOT working with us through 00:36:28.204 --> 00:36:31.244 this. With that Madam Chair, if you would entertain 00:36:31.253 --> 00:36:35.284 it. (item:26:Motion to direct ERCOT to adopt memo as it relates to weatherization and Rule 25.55) I would move to direct ERCOT to adopt the methodology 00:36:35.293 --> 00:36:39.364 described in their memo dated July 13, 2023, as it 00:36:39.375 --> 00:36:45.349 relates to weatherization. And, and Rule 25.55. Second. 00:36:45.780 --> 00:36:48.119 Do we need a motion and a second? 00:36:49.978 --> 00:36:55.110 We need this tied to their memorandum so that if this 00:36:55.119 --> 00:36:57.708 becomes a dispute, we have a record. 00:36:59.360 --> 00:37:02.760 (item:26:Shelah Cisneros clarifying motion to adopt memo) So to clarify Commissioners, are you anticipating that 00:37:02.769 --> 00:37:05.958 we would have an order after this vote? Barksdale, can you 00:37:05.969 --> 00:37:09.110 write an order? How, how does this work? This is new 00:37:09.119 --> 00:37:11.168 uncharted ground for us, but we need it tied to that 00:37:11.179 --> 00:37:14.909 memorandum, just like we did on Firm Fuel Service 00:37:14.929 --> 00:37:17.668 on another topic. It would, it would actually I'll 00:37:17.679 --> 00:37:19.918 jump in here. I think that would be in our group. (item:26:Shelah Cisneros and Barksdale English on options for motion to proceed) But 00:37:19.929 --> 00:37:22.128 if you, if you want to take a motion to 00:37:22.139 --> 00:37:24.510 take a vote on this. And direct us to draft an order 00:37:24.519 --> 00:37:26.659 accordingly, we can work on that. 00:37:28.469 --> 00:37:31.489 If we could offer an alternative, you also could direct 00:37:31.500 --> 00:37:35.219 Staff to memorialize your, your conversation in the 00:37:35.228 --> 00:37:39.010 form of a memorandum. That gets filed in the same project 00:37:39.019 --> 00:37:43.148 as Woody's memo that summarizes your conversation. 00:37:44.148 --> 00:37:46.510 That's a, that's a great alternative. And I think that 00:37:46.519 --> 00:37:49.340 establishes a pathway before we start documenting this. 00:37:49.349 --> 00:37:52.059 Especially on issues that, that may be contested in 00:37:52.070 --> 00:37:57.219 future, which certainly a standard maybe so. (item:26:Motion to direct Staff to provide a memo with directions for ERCOT) I would 00:37:57.228 --> 00:38:01.599 move to direct Staff to provide a memo. That is 00:38:01.610 --> 00:38:04.898 consistent with our discussion and uh provides direction 00:38:04.909 --> 00:38:06.800 to ERCOT. Second. 00:38:08.978 --> 00:38:12.769 All in favor, say aye. Aye. Motion passes. Thank you. 00:38:16.179 --> 00:38:20.219 Thank you all very much. Item 27 was Consented. 00:38:20.228 --> 00:38:24.478 I don't have anything on Item 28 ,unless y'all do? (item:29:Chairwoman Jackson lays out Project 54941) Next 00:38:24.489 --> 00:38:29.179 up is Item No. 29, Project No. 54941 - Project Generation 00:38:29.188 --> 00:38:33.708 Company and Self-Generator Compliance Updates. PUC 00:38:33.719 --> 00:38:38.079 Staff filed a memo. Mariah is up here and she will lay 00:38:38.090 --> 00:38:41.978 out her memo. (item:29:Mariah Benson with Commission Staff on market information update) Good morning, Commissioners. Mariah Benson, 00:38:41.989 --> 00:38:45.329 Commission Staff. We filed this memo to provide the 00:38:45.340 --> 00:38:51.978 market information um in Project No. 52796 - Review 00:38:51.989 --> 00:38:54.708 of Market Participant Qualifications and Reporting 00:38:54.719 --> 00:38:58.409 Requirements. We updated multiple rules. One of such 00:38:58.418 --> 00:39:02.809 rules was 25.109 for Power Generation and Self-Generator 00:39:02.820 --> 00:39:07.110 requirements. Of the, of the requirements made in 00:39:07.119 --> 00:39:10.519 25.109, we included a requirement for them to demonstrate 00:39:10.530 --> 00:39:13.789 compliance with the updated requirements to demonstrate 00:39:13.800 --> 00:39:16.769 compliance. They had to file a form demonstrating that 00:39:16.780 --> 00:39:21.168 compliance um of the power generation companies and 00:39:21.179 --> 00:39:24.780 self generators in the market. Over 280 have not filed 00:39:24.789 --> 00:39:28.090 that form which was due June 1. We're recommending 00:39:28.099 --> 00:39:31.369 extending the deadline to August 18. To provide the 00:39:31.378 --> 00:39:34.978 market more time to file that and to put into reference 00:39:34.989 --> 00:39:39.260 280 not filing, that's around 40% of the market. 00:39:39.269 --> 00:39:44.829 After August 18, we would, we would send 00:39:44.840 --> 00:39:47.619 them to the division of enforcement and compliance 00:39:47.628 --> 00:39:51.429 to further investigate and determine potential compliance 00:39:51.438 --> 00:39:54.809 actions for those power generation companies and self 00:39:54.820 --> 00:39:58.250 generators. Mariah, would you say that 40% non compliance 00:39:58.260 --> 00:40:04.119 is not ideal? 40% is definitely not ideal. And to clarify 00:40:04.128 --> 00:40:07.659 to um part, part of this form. We're requiring them 00:40:07.668 --> 00:40:10.378 to file. It's not owners. It's, it's really just providing 00:40:10.389 --> 00:40:13.250 us updated contact information. And so, a lot of 00:40:13.260 --> 00:40:15.989 those companies may no longer be in the market. We 00:40:16.000 --> 00:40:18.128 just are unaware, they never had to come in and file 00:40:18.139 --> 00:40:21.329 a relinquishment. So we're really just trying to get 00:40:21.340 --> 00:40:25.329 a sense of what the market is. Think this is a shot 00:40:25.340 --> 00:40:28.699 across the bow or a flare in the sky. So if everybody 00:40:28.708 --> 00:40:31.429 would take note, please comply. 00:40:32.958 --> 00:40:35.188 Or we'll introduced you to Barksdale. Yeah. 00:40:37.860 --> 00:40:41.139 (item:29:Chairwoman Jackson surmises next steps) Okay. Thank you very much, Mariah. Just to reiterate noncompliance 00:40:41.148 --> 00:40:43.708 will be submitted to our Enforcement Division after 00:40:43.719 --> 00:40:48.708 August the 18. Okay. (item:30:Chairwoman Jackson lays out Project 37344) Next up is Item No. 30, Project 00:40:48.719 --> 00:40:52.789 No. 37344. Commissioner Cobos, you have an update 00:40:52.800 --> 00:40:55.619 that you would like to provide. (item:30:Commissioner Cobos update on action from the Entergy Regional States Committee) Yes, thank you, Chair 00:40:55.628 --> 00:41:00.059 Jackson. Just wanted to provide an update on in 00:41:00.070 --> 00:41:04.260 action taken by the Entergy Regional States Committee. Um MISO 00:41:04.269 --> 00:41:07.378 is currently undertaking a long, long range transmission 00:41:07.389 --> 00:41:10.750 planning initiative. And that includes looking at transmission 00:41:10.760 --> 00:41:15.340 development across the entire MISO region. Um on a tranche 00:41:15.429 --> 00:41:18.679 basis. So starting with North and North Central region 00:41:19.039 --> 00:41:22.438 and um those were Tranche 1 and Tranche 2. And now 00:41:22.449 --> 00:41:27.639 MISO is focused on um Tranche 3. Which is the South Subregion 00:41:27.938 --> 00:41:32.599 and a big um uh very significant topic on, on this 00:41:32.610 --> 00:41:36.128 LRTP process that MISO is undertaking is how the costs 00:41:36.139 --> 00:41:39.570 of those projects transmission projects will be allocated. 00:41:40.128 --> 00:41:45.628 And so, um you know, MISO had encouraged us, us being 00:41:45.639 --> 00:41:50.000 the MISO South Subregion to provide feedback on our 00:41:50.010 --> 00:41:52.570 perspective on cost allocation for the Tranche 3 00:41:52.579 --> 00:41:55.938 projects that would we built in sub South subregion 00:41:55.949 --> 00:42:00.030 where Entergy Texas is located and so on. June 30 00:42:00.039 --> 00:42:04.019 the Entergy Regional States Committee Board of Directors. Unanimously 00:42:04.030 --> 00:42:08.550 adopted a resolution asking MISO to adopt a cost allocation 00:42:08.559 --> 00:42:11.699 methodology. For Tranche 3 long range transmission 00:42:11.789 --> 00:42:15.289 planning uh in, in the MISO subregion that reflects the 00:42:15.300 --> 00:42:18.780 general core principles listed in the resolution. At 00:42:18.789 --> 00:42:22.128 a high level the E-RSC's resolution is requesting 00:42:22.139 --> 00:42:24.688 that MISO develop cost allocation methodology for the 00:42:24.878 --> 00:42:27.789 Tranche 3 projects that is not based on postage stamp cost 00:42:27.800 --> 00:42:30.010 allocation and that's what they have approved in the 00:42:30.019 --> 00:42:33.780 North and North Central regions. And basically this 00:42:33.789 --> 00:42:36.648 would allocate cost. The postage stamp allocation would 00:42:36.659 --> 00:42:38.610 allocate cost to entities and customers that they may 00:42:38.619 --> 00:42:43.289 not be receiving any benefit from the project. So um 00:42:43.300 --> 00:42:47.219 instead, the E-RSC asked that MISO take into consideration 00:42:47.228 --> 00:42:50.599 consideration your general core principles in developing 00:42:50.610 --> 00:42:53.398 the cost all cost allocation methodology that are based 00:42:53.409 --> 00:42:57.320 on better aligning costs with expected beneficiaries 00:42:57.329 --> 00:43:01.280 by allocating costs as accurately and granular grandly 00:43:01.289 --> 00:43:05.309 as possible based on cost allocation and beneficiaries 00:43:05.320 --> 00:43:08.570 pay principles in an equitable, equitable manner to 00:43:08.579 --> 00:43:12.659 protect all consumers. And um to interconnecting resources 00:43:12.668 --> 00:43:15.929 that receive benefits from the LRTP project. The 00:43:15.938 --> 00:43:20.039 E-RSC has requested that MISO's Terra filing at FERC with 00:43:20.050 --> 00:43:22.739 the cost allocation methodology for Tranche 3 long 00:43:22.750 --> 00:43:26.809 range transmission planning um initiative reflect these 00:43:26.820 --> 00:43:29.510 core general principles. We will be in the process 00:43:29.519 --> 00:43:33.519 of engaging with my staff um and stakeholders on working 00:43:33.530 --> 00:43:36.320 to develop the, the actual detailed and the, the 00:43:36.329 --> 00:43:40.000 methodology that would capture those general core principles 00:43:40.010 --> 00:43:43.309 Um We expect that to happen throughout this Fall. I 00:43:43.320 --> 00:43:46.250 think MISO had wanted to make a terra filing at FERC by the 00:43:46.260 --> 00:43:48.909 end of the year but stated at our E-RSC meeting that 00:43:48.918 --> 00:43:52.159 they would extend those discussions into the earlier 00:43:52.168 --> 00:43:55.070 part of next year if there was, you know, some productive 00:43:55.079 --> 00:43:58.139 discussions being had on cost allocation for, for those 00:43:58.398 --> 00:44:01.909 three projects. And um I'm reporting on this as the 00:44:01.918 --> 00:44:04.878 President of the E=RSC and wanted to bring this to 00:44:04.889 --> 00:44:08.668 your attention and have circulated copies of the adopted 00:44:08.679 --> 00:44:12.250 resolution to your offices and have or will be filing 00:44:12.260 --> 00:44:19.179 the resolution in Project 37344. Very good. Great update. 00:44:19.250 --> 00:44:24.099 Commissioner Cobos, how do you think? I mean, given the dynamics 00:44:24.110 --> 00:44:29.250 of MISO, MISO North Central versus South? Um how do you 00:44:29.260 --> 00:44:33.530 think this will go? (item:30:Commissioner Cobos' thoughts on MISO regions) Well, the two of the regions are 00:44:33.869 --> 00:44:39.500 okay with um post stamp allocation and um are, you know 00:44:39.510 --> 00:44:42.969 I, I think that they would have liked to have maybe 00:44:42.978 --> 00:44:45.409 everybody on the same page that can approve the entire 00:44:45.418 --> 00:44:47.958 initiative going forward through the tariff. But unfortunately 00:44:47.969 --> 00:44:50.829 we're not like all the other states in the South and 00:44:50.840 --> 00:44:54.438 we um are trying to assert our position on these issues 00:44:54.449 --> 00:44:57.329 because we just have a different footprint in the South 00:44:57.340 --> 00:45:01.708 with different factors impacting um our region, especially 00:45:01.909 --> 00:45:04.360 Texas with, you know, the low growth and everything 00:45:04.369 --> 00:45:07.539 going on there, the generation plants being built um 00:45:07.590 --> 00:45:10.110 just want to ensure that ultimately, if we do need 00:45:10.119 --> 00:45:12.599 the transmission, that costs are allocated in a fair 00:45:12.610 --> 00:45:16.579 equitable manner so that our companies in, in the South 00:45:16.590 --> 00:45:18.438 are not paying for transmission that, you know, our 00:45:18.449 --> 00:45:21.019 ratepayers rather are not paying for transmission 00:45:21.030 --> 00:45:27.378 that is, is not needed to serve their, they're needed 00:45:27.389 --> 00:45:30.280 to be being served by their company. (item:30:Commissioner McAdams' comments on FERC updates) So it's an interesting 00:45:30.289 --> 00:45:34.969 dynamic at FERC right now. They just rejected a uh a waiver 00:45:34.978 --> 00:45:40.539 process um for SPP uh that, uh basically allowed uh 00:45:40.550 --> 00:45:45.148 a smaller LRE to be exempted or reduced in terms of 00:45:45.159 --> 00:45:51.519 their um transmission cost allocation. Um And, and 00:45:51.530 --> 00:45:54.719 so those costs were uplifted to the rest of the system 00:45:54.750 --> 00:45:57.599 you know. So therefore, other LREs had to take a greater 00:45:57.610 --> 00:46:02.659 share and they first rejected this waiver process that 00:46:02.668 --> 00:46:06.449 allowed that smaller LRE to be exempted from the cost 00:46:08.148 --> 00:46:12.659 And uh because they, they wanted to try to find regional 00:46:12.789 --> 00:46:17.909 um unanimity, uh was uh a word that Christie uh Commissioner 00:46:17.918 --> 00:46:21.360 Christie used. So I don't know that may have been a 00:46:21.369 --> 00:46:26.780 signal that hopefully MISO South and the Entergy states will 00:46:26.789 --> 00:46:31.829 be heard more within the ISO. (item:30:Commissioner Cobos' comments on major initiatives) Well MISO has really 00:46:31.840 --> 00:46:36.478 encouraged um the E-RSC or the MISO South region to provide 00:46:36.489 --> 00:46:38.909 feedback on a lot of their major initiatives not only 00:46:38.918 --> 00:46:41.628 in transmission in the LRTP process, but also in 00:46:41.639 --> 00:46:46.760 the resource aqua reforms. And um you know, we, we 00:46:46.769 --> 00:46:49.369 are um our own voice in the South and I work through 00:46:49.378 --> 00:46:52.429 the organization of MISO states as well. With a broader MISO 00:46:53.019 --> 00:46:56.168 um state regulatory body with many states involved. 00:46:56.500 --> 00:47:00.208 And, but I do think that it's important that um we 00:47:00.219 --> 00:47:04.340 provide a voice for the South subregion through the 00:47:04.349 --> 00:47:07.398 OMS. But more specifically through the Energy Regional 00:47:07.409 --> 00:47:10.159 States Committee that was formulated just for that. 00:47:10.168 --> 00:47:13.360 And we need to use that process as a voice to represent 00:47:13.369 --> 00:47:16.128 the MISO South as on a consensus basis where we can 00:47:16.139 --> 00:47:17.570 on these very important topics. 00:47:19.929 --> 00:47:26.269 (item:30:Commissioner Glotfelty's thoughts on postage stamp pricing) Um I would uh I appreciate the views of the Commissions 00:47:26.300 --> 00:47:32.478 in the, the RSC, especially in the South. I'm not totally 00:47:32.489 --> 00:47:37.489 aligned with it. Honestly, I understand it and I recognize 00:47:37.500 --> 00:47:41.519 it. But postage stamp pricing works in Texas and it's 00:47:41.530 --> 00:47:43.369 very hard to 00:47:45.148 --> 00:47:49.429 pin all cost on a cost causation. Um When you're looking 00:47:49.438 --> 00:47:54.599 at such a massive system of plants and wires over a 00:47:54.610 --> 00:47:59.168 long period of time. So, you know, when we build a 00:47:59.179 --> 00:48:04.458 line in North Texas and it goes into those folks in 00:48:04.469 --> 00:48:06.429 the Rio Grande Valley don't necessarily get the benefit 00:48:06.438 --> 00:48:09.148 of that line in North Texas. But there will be a time 00:48:09.159 --> 00:48:11.043 when they're building a line in the South, it's not 00:48:11.054 --> 00:48:13.195 going to benefit the North, but it's going to be paid 00:48:13.204 --> 00:48:16.405 for in T costs. Unfortunately, in all of these other 00:48:16.414 --> 00:48:20.804 regions, we don't have the benefit of a single jurisdiction 00:48:20.813 --> 00:48:23.833 like we do in ERCOT under Texas law. You know, we have 00:48:23.844 --> 00:48:27.164 different states under different laws and they have 00:48:27.175 --> 00:48:31.715 different rules for transmission, retail, transmission 00:48:31.724 --> 00:48:35.135 and wholesale transmission. And I think it's unfortunate 00:48:35.144 --> 00:48:37.773 but I appreciate that you're bringing this to us. I 00:48:37.784 --> 00:48:43.938 know why. Um, it is this way, I think it will change 00:48:43.949 --> 00:48:48.889 one day. But while it's still this way, we got to work 00:48:48.898 --> 00:48:54.289 for our uh regulated utilities and our ratepayers in 00:48:54.300 --> 00:48:57.159 these areas and make them not pay more than their fair 00:48:57.168 --> 00:49:00.079 share. (item:30:Commissioner McAdams' thoughts on different regions options) It's also interesting to see with the different 00:49:00.090 --> 00:49:03.208 ISOs like ERCOT and I think you'd agree with this 00:49:03.219 --> 00:49:06.489 is, is a more integrated system. We have more transfer 00:49:06.500 --> 00:49:11.458 capability within regions than core of MISO has this one little 00:49:11.469 --> 00:49:12.139 500 mega 00:49:14.208 --> 00:49:17.429 that uh it's, it's held together literally by a shoestring 00:49:17.469 --> 00:49:21.208 you know, and um so when it gets to cost allocation 00:49:21.219 --> 00:49:22.918 you're like, well, what benefit are you truly seeing 00:49:22.929 --> 00:49:25.030 in ERCOT you can kind of see that it makes that system 00:49:25.039 --> 00:49:28.679 even more integrated and allows regions to share more 00:49:28.909 --> 00:49:32.860 um. (item:30:Commissioner Cobos' follow-up to the Commissioner's comments) I appreciate the comments and I, and I think that's 00:49:32.869 --> 00:49:36.628 you know, what a distinction, right? Um The ERCOT market 00:49:36.639 --> 00:49:40.478 is an integrated system in one state where you can 00:49:40.489 --> 00:49:43.199 uh uplift the cost to our rate payers within the state 00:49:43.610 --> 00:49:47.188 And arguably, you know, you can make the, the argument 00:49:47.199 --> 00:49:50.168 that, you know, everybody benefits within the state 00:49:50.179 --> 00:49:53.378 right, within the ERCOT market. But when you um have 00:49:53.849 --> 00:49:57.208 you know, only a portion of one subregion that is in 00:49:57.219 --> 00:50:01.340 Texas and cost will be allocated to Entergy uh rate 00:50:01.349 --> 00:50:04.059 payers for transmission being built in Arkansas or 00:50:04.070 --> 00:50:07.539 Mississippi, Louisiana, that, you know, we gotta be 00:50:07.550 --> 00:50:10.708 more mindful of cost allocation. And I agree with you 00:50:10.719 --> 00:50:13.969 it will be um you know, a little bit more tenuous to 00:50:13.978 --> 00:50:17.269 come up with a methodology but invited our feedback 00:50:17.280 --> 00:50:19.610 and that's the way we feel and we'll figure out if 00:50:19.619 --> 00:50:22.269 we can get there in some formidable way that can be 00:50:22.280 --> 00:50:24.648 approved by FERC and, but we got to stand up for our 00:50:24.659 --> 00:50:27.840 ratepayers and, and our footprint here in Texas. (item:30:Commissioner Glotfelty on previous Entergy footprint) And 00:50:27.849 --> 00:50:31.628 I would say in Entergy, um I mean, we, you, it used 00:50:31.639 --> 00:50:34.260 to be a, uh, with an Entergy footprint. It used to all 00:50:34.269 --> 00:50:38.909 be cost allocated among all of the Entergy system costs 00:50:38.918 --> 00:50:41.628 among all of the states and they unwound that. And 00:50:41.639 --> 00:50:45.030 so, um your point is your, your point is right and 00:50:45.039 --> 00:50:47.579 uh, it will change when it changes and uh, you're supporting 00:50:47.590 --> 00:50:49.728 the position that benefits our ratepayers. So thanks. 00:50:50.000 --> 00:50:52.918 Thank you, Commissioner Glotfelty. Thank you for doing me. Okay 00:50:53.000 --> 00:50:56.039 very good, good discussion. Uh I don't have anything 00:50:56.050 --> 00:51:01.418 on Item 31, um y'all know? (item:32:Chairwoman Jackson lays out Project 41210) Next up is Item No. 00:51:01.429 --> 00:51:05.869 32, Project No. 41210. And I believe Commissioner 00:51:05.878 --> 00:51:09.309 McAdams, you have an update. Thank you, Madam Chair. 00:51:09.320 --> 00:51:13.719 (item:32:Commissioner McAdams update on activities within SPP) I will give a brief update, um, just on uh, activities 00:51:13.728 --> 00:51:17.378 within SPP. Um, but I'll give a more comprehensive 00:51:17.389 --> 00:51:21.030 update. If, if I may suggest, uh, possibly our 00:51:21.039 --> 00:51:25.878 August 3 open meeting. And, uh, there's a great many 00:51:25.889 --> 00:51:31.010 activities in SPP right now. Yesterday, um, Austin hosted 00:51:31.019 --> 00:51:33.239 uh at the Barbara Jordan Building right across the 00:51:33.250 --> 00:51:36.898 the walkway there. Um, a meeting, a in-person meeting 00:51:36.909 --> 00:51:39.789 of the Resource and Energy Adequacy Leadership Team 00:51:39.820 --> 00:51:44.228 uh for which I chair. And um at this meeting, we discussed 00:51:44.239 --> 00:51:48.110 it was a 9 hour meeting uh working lunch. Um It 00:51:48.119 --> 00:51:53.050 was a, a crusher of a meeting. But we discussed um flexibility 00:51:53.059 --> 00:51:56.699 and ramp uh associated with capacity obligations. As 00:51:56.708 --> 00:51:59.530 well as their existing market products uh mechanisms 00:51:59.539 --> 00:52:02.739 to increase their supply of generators. Who have the 00:52:02.750 --> 00:52:08.090 capabilities of flexibility and ramp. Um They, we also 00:52:08.099 --> 00:52:13.500 discussed a policy that is moving its way through the 00:52:13.510 --> 00:52:17.530 process which will determine the expected Load carrying 00:52:17.539 --> 00:52:25.070 capability of an LRE. Their accreditation for the 00:52:25.079 --> 00:52:28.090 purposes of determining our resource adequacy and reliability 00:52:28.099 --> 00:52:31.349 standard, as well. As the performance based accreditation 00:52:31.559 --> 00:52:36.280 methodology of generators of all resource types within 00:52:36.289 --> 00:52:40.429 the region. We discussed value of loss Load, very consistent 00:52:40.438 --> 00:52:44.659 with what we've been doing here in ERCOT. And a subsequent 00:52:44.668 --> 00:52:48.219 study that should be proceeding and hopefully uh producing 00:52:48.228 --> 00:52:52.500 results in Q1 of next year. Which will help inform 00:52:52.510 --> 00:52:57.628 a reliability standard um that uh subject to the outcomes 00:52:57.639 --> 00:53:01.478 of our group with the real team should be before the 00:53:01.489 --> 00:53:06.938 RSC for adoption in Q1 of next year as well. We 00:53:06.949 --> 00:53:11.809 also discussed policies to retain generators that have 00:53:11.820 --> 00:53:14.510 announced an intention, generation facilities that 00:53:14.519 --> 00:53:17.958 have announced intention to possibly retire. Uh As 00:53:17.969 --> 00:53:20.679 we've noted in other proceedings that the Commission. 00:53:20.688 --> 00:53:24.840 Uh SPP currently does not have an RMR mechanism but 00:53:25.099 --> 00:53:30.739 theoretically could develop one in the next year. Um 00:53:31.539 --> 00:53:34.878 We also uh we also discuss maintenance outages and 00:53:34.889 --> 00:53:38.708 how they relate to capacity obligations. All of this 00:53:38.719 --> 00:53:41.110 centers around a central theme of how do we pay for 00:53:41.119 --> 00:53:44.559 availability, compensate for availability or penalize 00:53:44.889 --> 00:53:49.208 uh LREs for lack of availability during critical hours. 00:53:49.219 --> 00:53:51.539 I think we're all familiar with that concept. We've 00:53:51.550 --> 00:53:55.389 had a rigorous discussion here. Um Ultimately, all 00:53:55.398 --> 00:53:58.418 these uh topics fed into a scheduling and, and 00:53:58.429 --> 00:54:02.550 planning work plan, which is uh somewhat consistent 00:54:02.559 --> 00:54:06.378 with what uh poor ERCOT trying to devise for us. Um 00:54:06.820 --> 00:54:10.128 And uh it's a, it's a lot of ships that we 00:54:10.139 --> 00:54:12.228 hope are move. I think we're, that are moving in the 00:54:12.239 --> 00:54:15.208 same direction now, but it's a, it's a lot to coordinate. 00:54:15.579 --> 00:54:19.958 Um I would like to uh also note that um the real 00:54:19.969 --> 00:54:23.679 team, the next in person meeting uh will be in Dallas 00:54:23.688 --> 00:54:28.760 in September 7th and 8th of this year. And um it's 00:54:28.769 --> 00:54:33.260 going to be a two day, uh two day meeting. The first 00:54:33.269 --> 00:54:37.159 day will consist of a resource adequacy summit. Where 00:54:37.168 --> 00:54:43.469 uh SPP is inviting adjacent ISOs and reliability leaders. 00:54:43.708 --> 00:54:48.148 Uh Jim Robb of NERC has already accepted and will be there. 00:54:48.478 --> 00:54:54.280 Arshad Mansoor, President CEO of EPRI will be there. Um We 00:54:54.289 --> 00:54:58.769 also have representatives from MISO New England um 00:54:59.010 --> 00:55:03.179 plan on attending. As well as interest from at least 00:55:03.188 --> 00:55:05.989 two FERC Commissioners um and potentially three. But they're 00:55:06.000 --> 00:55:09.820 trying to, you know, trying to devise a way to narrow 00:55:09.829 --> 00:55:12.329 that down so that there's not a quorum problem. But 00:55:12.340 --> 00:55:17.208 there's heavy interest nationally in trying to um try 00:55:17.219 --> 00:55:20.599 to provide forums where the of a reliability standard 00:55:20.610 --> 00:55:24.188 concept can be discussed on a national basis and what 00:55:24.199 --> 00:55:27.708 that involves and what defines resource adequacy. Um 00:55:27.719 --> 00:55:32.958 not just within ISOs but regionally. Um I, I would 00:55:32.969 --> 00:55:37.079 also say that uh E3 will be present presenting 00:55:37.090 --> 00:55:40.829 at uh the first day of the summit. To talk about valuing 00:55:40.840 --> 00:55:44.500 availability. And I think they'll have a very similar 00:55:44.510 --> 00:55:48.059 um proposal to what we've seen in Texas with the PCM. 00:55:48.070 --> 00:55:52.250 But as it might relate to uh ISOs with more 00:55:52.260 --> 00:55:55.309 vertically integrated utilities and capacity obligations. 00:55:55.489 --> 00:55:57.708 So I think it'll be a very interesting conversation 00:55:57.840 --> 00:56:01.619 ERCOT has been invited. Um but Texas will certainly 00:56:01.628 --> 00:56:05.659 have a presence. Uh I, I think uh a PUC Staff is 00:56:05.668 --> 00:56:08.320 planning on attending as well and we hope to have a 00:56:08.329 --> 00:56:10.469 very rigorous discussion over those two days. And I 00:56:10.478 --> 00:56:13.070 just wanted to highlight that for the Commission. I 00:56:13.148 --> 00:56:16.789 sure hope ERCOT's there. Well, I mean, I'm not gonna 00:56:16.800 --> 00:56:18.829 force 'em. They got a lot of stuff going on but it'll 00:56:18.840 --> 00:56:21.728 be a good discussion. I think I bet they could find 00:56:21.739 --> 00:56:23.519 one person. Well, maybe so. 00:56:25.090 --> 00:56:27.840 But anyway, that concludes my uh summary Madam Chair. Well, very 00:56:27.849 --> 00:56:32.628 good. And thanks for all your work and your, um, I 00:56:32.648 --> 00:56:36.188 guess marathon efforts yesterday and representing the 00:56:36.199 --> 00:56:39.179 Texas interest. (item:32:Commissioner Glotfelty on Commissioners with leadership rules outside PUC) Yeah. you know, it, uh it's actually 00:56:39.188 --> 00:56:44.110 great to see, um Will in charge of the REAL team and 00:56:44.119 --> 00:56:48.148 Laurie in charge of the, E-RSC, you know. Texas is 00:56:48.159 --> 00:56:50.760 known for not really participating in a lot of these 00:56:50.769 --> 00:56:56.039 groups outside of ERCOT. So to have you all on leadership 00:56:56.050 --> 00:56:58.719 teams and taking positions there is, I think a really 00:56:58.728 --> 00:57:02.179 good uh benefit. They're volunteering us now and I 00:57:02.188 --> 00:57:04.739 think it speaks to what we've been going through over 00:57:04.750 --> 00:57:07.510 the last 2 1/2 years. The detriment of your family and 00:57:07.519 --> 00:57:10.800 your personal life. Uh, this only leads to something 00:57:10.809 --> 00:57:13.010 else. Yeah. Well, Carly's not watching so. 00:57:14.570 --> 00:57:17.349 (item:32:Commissioner McAdams' follow-up comments) I, I also want to highlight yesterday to show how we're 00:57:17.360 --> 00:57:20.000 herding cats. Between poor Lori and her resolution. 00:57:20.010 --> 00:57:23.619 And yesterday I nearly lost a vote on recommending 00:57:23.628 --> 00:57:27.889 a Winter capacity obligation in, in the SVP. It came 00:57:27.898 --> 00:57:30.019 down to like, I think two votes, Richard, wasn't it 00:57:30.030 --> 00:57:34.199 I mean, it was a hairy deal. And um, Commissioners 00:57:34.208 --> 00:57:37.769 were walking away, walking out. And uh, so this will 00:57:37.780 --> 00:57:41.199 be taken up this weekend. So after our open meeting 00:57:41.208 --> 00:57:44.809 today, Sunday. I'll fly up to Minneapolis, Saint Paul 00:57:44.820 --> 00:57:48.949 Minnesota and the RSC will vote on the Winter capacity 00:57:48.958 --> 00:57:52.250 obligation. And this thing barely passed the REAL team 00:57:52.260 --> 00:57:54.750 and everybody had their own reasons for opposing it 00:57:55.159 --> 00:57:57.949 But it's a real shootout just trying to provide the 00:57:58.219 --> 00:58:01.898 the mechanisms to ensure resource adequacy is not an 00:58:01.909 --> 00:58:05.849 easy thing and these are not easy decision. But. 00:58:05.860 --> 00:58:09.090 It's good that you do the uh the Summer resource adequacy 00:58:09.099 --> 00:58:12.168 number in the South and you go to the, the North. Don't bring that up 00:58:13.050 --> 00:58:14.228 Jimmy and the RSC meeting. 00:58:16.019 --> 00:58:20.070 Okay. Very good. (item:33:Chairwoman Jackson lays out item with standing ERCOT discussion) Next up is Item No. 33. Uh 00:58:20.079 --> 00:58:24.030 This is our standing item for ERCOT discussion. ERCOT 00:58:24.039 --> 00:58:33.119 filed a memo in Projects uh 53298, 54444 and 55156. At 00:58:33.128 --> 00:58:35.929 our last open meeting, we asked ERCOT to provide a work 00:58:35.938 --> 00:58:39.159 plan for accomplishing the remaining market design 00:58:39.168 --> 00:58:43.090 work that was in front of us. We have ERCOT here today 00:58:43.099 --> 00:58:46.280 and if y'all could come on up and provide us with the 00:58:46.289 --> 00:58:47.469 highlights of your memo. 00:58:50.469 --> 00:58:51.019 Thank you. 00:58:53.300 --> 00:58:53.849 Thank you Kenan. 00:58:55.969 --> 00:59:03.148 (item:33:Kenan Ögelman with ERCOT highlights ERCOT's memo) Good morning Kenan Ögelman with ERCOT. Um So uh we, we laid out a memo 00:59:03.159 --> 00:59:08.469 whereby we reviewed the 88th Legislature recommendations 00:59:09.019 --> 00:59:13.418 and uh have kind of three components within the memo. 00:59:13.958 --> 00:59:17.418 Um I would just say that there's probably gonna be 00:59:17.429 --> 00:59:21.769 more work to be done as we discussed after the resource 00:59:21.780 --> 00:59:27.820 adequacy requirements. Rulemaking is kind of concluded 00:59:27.929 --> 00:59:32.398 that will probably identify some of the next steps 00:59:32.409 --> 00:59:37.219 or other paths that you may be interested in pursuing. 00:59:37.228 --> 00:59:42.719 But that doesn't appear to be timely to assume anything 00:59:42.728 --> 00:59:49.829 from that at this point. So our focus was on an ORDC 00:59:49.840 --> 00:59:54.679 change in the memo, we lay out a recommendation 00:59:54.688 --> 00:59:59.139 that we proceed with the Board recommendation on the 00:59:59.148 --> 01:00:04.849 bridge solution for ORDC. Um So that, that would be 01:00:04.860 --> 01:00:10.030 component number one, the second component is around 01:00:10.039 --> 01:00:20.849 um the dispatch DRRS uh program. Um We are uh as, as 01:00:20.860 --> 01:00:25.070 I spoke. Um I think at the two open meetings ago, we 01:00:25.079 --> 01:00:30.349 are laying that out, identifying an option that's deliverable 01:00:30.360 --> 01:00:35.708 by the December 2024 deadline. And we plan to have 01:00:35.719 --> 01:00:40.610 a workshop. We've, I think, put on the calendar for 01:00:40.619 --> 01:00:46.329 July 27. A workshop to, you know, get a stakeholder 01:00:46.340 --> 01:00:52.159 feedback on what we're proposing so that um uh we, 01:00:52.168 --> 01:00:55.389 we'd like to continue moving forward on that. And then 01:00:55.398 --> 01:00:59.378 the last one is uh PCM. Uh in, in the 01:00:59.389 --> 01:01:05.938 memo. And uh by statute, there is uh at least uh some 01:01:05.949 --> 01:01:10.610 guardrails around um what to, what to do in terms of 01:01:10.619 --> 01:01:14.199 moving forward with PCM. The main point we would 01:01:14.208 --> 01:01:18.648 make there is that there are, I know you all took a 01:01:18.659 --> 01:01:22.668 straw vote or a vote to move forward with PCM, but 01:01:22.679 --> 01:01:26.469 there were a lot of components that still were remain 01:01:26.478 --> 01:01:31.739 to be defined around, for example, just to illustrate 01:01:31.750 --> 01:01:35.228 the forward market and exactly how that would work 01:01:35.639 --> 01:01:39.188 Um And uh so, so that, that's just one example, but 01:01:39.199 --> 01:01:42.429 there's a variety of components that probably need 01:01:42.438 --> 01:01:47.559 to be further defined. And it seems to us that given 01:01:47.898 --> 01:01:53.668 our estimate that we need kind of 2 1/2 to 3 years after 01:01:53.679 --> 01:01:56.719 we've defined all the rules and parameters of that 01:01:56.978 --> 01:02:01.398 to deliver, that we probably need to kick off some 01:02:01.409 --> 01:02:06.889 form of workshops or activity to uh kind of solicit 01:02:06.898 --> 01:02:11.840 feedback on how to fill in the gaps if that is where 01:02:11.849 --> 01:02:16.208 y'all want to move forward. Still. Um So that's kind 01:02:16.219 --> 01:02:21.539 of the, the memo again, our conclusion, uh outlines 01:02:21.550 --> 01:02:24.289 that we would like to come back and give you regular 01:02:24.300 --> 01:02:29.519 updates both on these components and as other decisions 01:02:29.530 --> 01:02:34.110 develop what uh follow up that we may have to provide 01:02:34.119 --> 01:02:38.438 you. So that that's essentially the memo as it's laid 01:02:38.449 --> 01:02:42.559 out. (item:33:Chairwoman Jackson on ERCOT having a workflow process delineated) So part of what you kind of outlined here, I guess 01:02:42.570 --> 01:02:45.449 in the first memo and you kind of recognized it that 01:02:45.458 --> 01:02:49.688 was there was a need to um you know, do some potentially 01:02:49.699 --> 01:02:54.079 some additional work. And I know from my standpoint 01:02:54.090 --> 01:03:00.978 I would very much like to see a workflow process delineated. 01:03:01.148 --> 01:03:06.269 And set forth and put out at least in, you know what 01:03:06.280 --> 01:03:09.228 to me are kind of like the top five top of mind 01:03:09.239 --> 01:03:13.128 things kind of moving forward. Which would be the reliability 01:03:13.139 --> 01:03:16.809 standard, the real time co-optimization, the ORDC, 01:03:16.820 --> 01:03:20.199 the PCM and DRRS. So that we know, you know, what are 01:03:20.208 --> 01:03:24.300 those segments of work? What is the expectation from 01:03:24.478 --> 01:03:28.280 the PUC? What are those timelines that we have in terms 01:03:28.289 --> 01:03:31.320 of what we expect to happen along the way? So we have 01:03:31.329 --> 01:03:34.349 a lot of moving parts. But being able to kind of delineate 01:03:34.360 --> 01:03:39.099 it in a very concise way that is used within the project 01:03:39.110 --> 01:03:42.320 management world. So that we see the elements, we see 01:03:42.329 --> 01:03:45.398 the deliverables along the way, we can look for synergies 01:03:45.409 --> 01:03:49.219 between the two. And we're very much from the PUC standpoint 01:03:49.228 --> 01:03:52.728 as well as from ERCOT standpoint aligned in terms of 01:03:52.739 --> 01:03:55.418 what the work efforts are going forward so that we 01:03:55.429 --> 01:04:00.059 meet the end game. And so I know I've talked with Christie 01:04:00.070 --> 01:04:05.019 about this and as well as Pablo and I know my expectation 01:04:05.030 --> 01:04:08.208 would be. To maybe start next week, reaching out to 01:04:08.219 --> 01:04:12.199 the PUC Staff. So that PUC staff and ERCOT can kind of 01:04:12.208 --> 01:04:14.579 come together and maybe look at what a template might 01:04:14.590 --> 01:04:17.179 be. Maybe start with the reliability standard so that 01:04:17.188 --> 01:04:20.760 we can get something like this in place. To be able 01:04:20.769 --> 01:04:24.239 to kind of again from a project management standpoint. 01:04:24.250 --> 01:04:27.449 Better understand the workflow and have something that 01:04:27.458 --> 01:04:31.639 in my mind would be, you know, almost uh a diagram 01:04:31.648 --> 01:04:34.739 have it in a diagram format. So and we can change it 01:04:34.750 --> 01:04:37.500 over time as you mentioned, you know as, as things 01:04:37.510 --> 01:04:40.849 arise in terms of continuous improvement. (item:33:Commissioner Glotfelty's thoughts on an ERCOT project management component) Madam Chairman, 01:04:41.478 --> 01:04:46.039 you're preaching uh my song. Um He's got the same diagram. 01:04:47.099 --> 01:04:50.780 This is Will's. He made me give it to him. That was that this, it's 01:04:50.789 --> 01:04:53.539 exactly what I was thinking. Which is if we could show 01:04:53.590 --> 01:04:57.429 the industry and the Commission and the Board, uh the 01:04:57.438 --> 01:05:00.438 products that are being worked on and when deliverable 01:05:00.449 --> 01:05:04.320 and inter deliverables are expected. It would help 01:05:04.639 --> 01:05:08.489 uh certainty in the market. Uh So they know uh it will 01:05:08.500 --> 01:05:11.389 hold our feet to the fire as well as yours. And something 01:05:11.398 --> 01:05:14.119 like that could be a beginning and you can have G 01:05:14.188 --> 01:05:16.969 charts underneath each one to show timelines for those 01:05:16.978 --> 01:05:20.059 So um I, I love the project management component that 01:05:20.070 --> 01:05:24.050 you're talking about. (item:33:Commissioner McAdams' comments on ERCOT having a project management component) Chair Jackson has some great ideas about how to make 01:05:24.059 --> 01:05:26.090 that from an engineer's perspective, about how to make 01:05:26.099 --> 01:05:29.668 the detail. And again it, it can be uh somewhat 01:05:29.699 --> 01:05:32.139 aspirational, but it'll give us targets to hold us 01:05:32.148 --> 01:05:35.789 accountable too. (item:33:Commissioner Cobos' thoughts on work flow diagram for ERCOT) Um I think it's a great idea, you 01:05:35.800 --> 01:05:39.909 know, the work flow chart diagram will not only help 01:05:39.989 --> 01:05:43.938 us and help ERCOT and the stakeholders, but also the 01:05:43.949 --> 01:05:48.090 Legislature understand where we're at in this entire 01:05:48.099 --> 01:05:52.188 market design reform effort with these key initiatives. 01:05:52.199 --> 01:05:54.519 Exactly. So we're not having to constantly answer. 01:05:54.530 --> 01:05:56.688 Well, when is something going to be delivered, we have 01:05:56.699 --> 01:06:01.188 a general target frame, you know, target timeline that 01:06:01.199 --> 01:06:03.869 everybody can see including the public. And and I, I 01:06:03.878 --> 01:06:07.079 think that that is a great idea and I'm wondering if 01:06:07.090 --> 01:06:09.739 that could be folded into this detailed status update 01:06:09.750 --> 01:06:12.619 that's in this in here where you align the blueprint 01:06:12.628 --> 01:06:14.789 with the new initiatives from the Legislature? Is that 01:06:14.800 --> 01:06:18.750 what you envision this be folded into? (item:33:Kenan Ögelman on working with Commission Staff) I think that's 01:06:18.760 --> 01:06:24.110 one one potential uh area. Uh but we would be happy to work 01:06:24.119 --> 01:06:27.469 with Staff and, and find the right place or places 01:06:27.478 --> 01:06:32.329 where those that, that needs to be presented. Um And 01:06:32.340 --> 01:06:35.739 I can tell you that uh we have taken your feedback 01:06:35.750 --> 01:06:38.648 to heart and you've already kicked off uh initiative 01:06:38.659 --> 01:06:43.369 to lay all that out. It's a two fold process, right 01:06:43.378 --> 01:06:46.090 So I'll ask Connie if she's got any thoughts on this 01:06:46.099 --> 01:06:49.780 or Thomas if they want to weigh in. Yes, ma'am. Thank 01:06:49.789 --> 01:06:54.849 you. (item:33:Connie Corona on creating a Staff Work Team) Uh Staff has, has been discussing this internally 01:06:54.860 --> 01:06:59.860 and I think we're going to um create a, a work team. 01:07:00.559 --> 01:07:04.099 With uh both market analysis folks and rules and 01:07:04.110 --> 01:07:07.750 projects. We have certified project manager now in 01:07:07.760 --> 01:07:12.708 our rules and projects group. And um he will be supporting 01:07:13.019 --> 01:07:17.559 um both ERCOT and, and PUC Staff and getting you all 01:07:17.570 --> 01:07:22.559 to, to a place that um has a tool you can use 01:07:22.878 --> 01:07:29.349 to track these projects. Um And the um the next open 01:07:29.360 --> 01:07:32.809 meeting being just two weeks from today, I, I don't 01:07:33.079 --> 01:07:39.570 think that's a realistic uh timeline to get a, a detailed 01:07:39.579 --> 01:07:43.579 tool that you need. So, um we will plan on bringing 01:07:43.590 --> 01:07:49.349 that to the August 24th open meeting and that means 01:07:49.360 --> 01:07:53.320 we will file it on August 17. 01:07:55.199 --> 01:07:57.329 Which is again and that would come from ERCOT. 01:07:58.168 --> 01:08:01.090 Yes, ma'am. I have a couple of questions. I'm just 01:08:01.099 --> 01:08:04.280 kind of going through and I'll stop at each major point 01:08:04.289 --> 01:08:06.418 (item:33:Commissioner Cobos' question on reliability standard) But, uh, the next topic I wanted to talk about was 01:08:06.429 --> 01:08:10.019 the reliability standard. Um, in your memo, you don't 01:08:10.030 --> 01:08:12.878 outline a time period as to when ERCOT will have their 01:08:12.889 --> 01:08:17.109 deliverables completed. Um Can you speak to that um 01:08:18.538 --> 01:08:21.309 completion timeline or expected completion timeline 01:08:24.259 --> 01:08:26.470 Chrissy's up? Ok. Thank you, 01:08:31.837 --> 01:08:36.179 (item:33:Kristi Hobbs with ERCOT on reliability standard) Kristi Hobbs with ERCOT. And so the reliability standard 01:08:36.188 --> 01:08:38.858 we've uh laid out some initial milestones and I think 01:08:38.868 --> 01:08:42.007 you know, we'll be able to uh as Chair Jackson noted 01:08:42.019 --> 01:08:44.269 and get that into the work plan very quickly as we've 01:08:44.278 --> 01:08:47.608 got milestones laid out. Um But we'll be working to 01:08:47.618 --> 01:08:50.929 bring you some of your, the scenarios we're targeting 01:08:50.938 --> 01:08:53.757 the second open meeting in August. We'll start to have 01:08:53.769 --> 01:08:55.889 some of that information to be able to share with you 01:08:56.409 --> 01:09:00.628 Um But the endgame is that by, I think uh our call 01:09:00.640 --> 01:09:04.250 right by uh November is when we should have the ERCOT 01:09:04.319 --> 01:09:07.359 work completed. And so we'll be working with Staff 01:09:07.369 --> 01:09:10.878 on what the path forward is for rulemaking. Um When 01:09:10.890 --> 01:09:13.418 does that start? Um So all that work can be done in 01:09:13.430 --> 01:09:16.350 parallel. Does that include the completion of the vol 01:09:16.359 --> 01:09:22.278 study? We are just now in finalizing uh the work 01:09:22.288 --> 01:09:25.087 with the vendor. Um So I don't have a timeline for 01:09:25.099 --> 01:09:29.998 the vol study yet. Have you hired a vendor? We are working 01:09:30.007 --> 01:09:33.028 on that with negotiations right now? Yes. Okay. Because 01:09:33.038 --> 01:09:36.547 that, that's a very central piece of this entire process 01:09:36.559 --> 01:09:40.048 um of the reliability standard. So I think, you know 01:09:40.060 --> 01:09:43.829 we, we definitely gotta get that piece going and, and 01:09:43.838 --> 01:09:48.739 completed so that we can fold that into our reliability 01:09:48.750 --> 01:09:54.399 standard. Um deliberations at the back end. Um you 01:09:54.409 --> 01:09:57.069 know, as, as that discussion comes to the PUC. 01:09:59.378 --> 01:10:02.720 (item:33:Chairwoman Jackson on workflow being final end goal) And again, you know, demonstrating the value of having 01:10:02.779 --> 01:10:05.579 you know, a workflow so that as we have different pieces 01:10:05.588 --> 01:10:09.439 that are integral to the final work product that we've 01:10:09.449 --> 01:10:12.048 identified with all the, what they are and what the 01:10:12.060 --> 01:10:16.369 timeline is and how they're kind of working, um you 01:10:16.378 --> 01:10:20.798 know, collectively to make the final end goal. Um you 01:10:20.810 --> 01:10:24.689 know, as efficient as a and as um productive and as 01:10:24.699 --> 01:10:30.029 valuable as, as possible and um anything else on the 01:10:30.039 --> 01:10:33.779 reliability. (item:33:Commissioner McAdams on codifying agency rules) So, so I I agree with that, I, I believe 01:10:33.970 --> 01:10:38.199 uh in terms of uh in my view, and I've kind of 01:10:38.208 --> 01:10:43.009 been uh trying to say this for sometime and in different 01:10:43.020 --> 01:10:47.640 projects, but all roads lead to Christmas for us and 01:10:47.649 --> 01:10:51.628 then Christmas and ultimately for Staff having a workable 01:10:51.640 --> 01:10:55.279 um strawman at that point for a PFP because some of 01:10:55.289 --> 01:10:59.878 this is gonna be an agency rule. I I religiously believe 01:10:59.890 --> 01:11:03.569 that that once we center around what that standard 01:11:03.579 --> 01:11:06.569 is, we need to codify that an agency rule because then 01:11:06.579 --> 01:11:09.509 the market sees that somewhere in agency rule and it 01:11:09.520 --> 01:11:13.869 has the force of law and separate. And apart from the 01:11:13.878 --> 01:11:18.048 debate about mandatory versus target, um there is a 01:11:18.060 --> 01:11:23.838 goal on the part of the State of Texas, um especially 01:11:23.850 --> 01:11:27.088 within ERCOT that we will achieve a standard through 01:11:27.100 --> 01:11:30.369 either a sum of all part strategy or one big strategy 01:11:30.378 --> 01:11:33.409 And, and the Legislature sort of spoke to that during 01:11:33.418 --> 01:11:35.668 the session, so I won't open up that can of worms now. 01:11:35.680 --> 01:11:40.239 But um I believe this work plan uh approach and, and 01:11:40.250 --> 01:11:44.750 delineating how the projects converge toward a, a central 01:11:44.759 --> 01:11:48.369 goal will be very useful. And I believe ultimately 01:11:48.378 --> 01:11:51.759 by the end of the Fall, uh the Legislature will see 01:11:51.770 --> 01:11:56.168 us substantively deliberating with uh independent data 01:11:56.180 --> 01:11:59.869 points upon a standard which will help us achieve 01:11:59.878 --> 01:12:02.520 reliability and maintain it. Absolutely. (item:33:Commissioner Cobos on enshrining the reliability standard withing the Commission's rules)And I agree 01:12:02.529 --> 01:12:06.500 with you on in enshrining the reliability standard 01:12:06.509 --> 01:12:09.039 in our rules because as we do with all Legislation, 01:12:09.470 --> 01:12:13.060 that's how we implement Legislation and the reliability 01:12:13.069 --> 01:12:18.708 standard requirement was in SB3. So thank you 01:12:18.720 --> 01:12:20.739 for that. Anything else in the reliability center? 01:12:20.750 --> 01:12:23.418 Okay. And, and just to reiterate, I think the point you 01:12:23.430 --> 01:12:25.989 made about making sure that if there are studies that 01:12:26.000 --> 01:12:28.470 need to be done. So that we have the most recent data 01:12:28.479 --> 01:12:31.088 available in order to move forward and get the best 01:12:31.100 --> 01:12:34.250 product we can, that's important. And I think you, 01:12:34.259 --> 01:12:36.449 you, you pointed that out. Well, the value of Load 01:12:36.458 --> 01:12:38.600 study is extremely important because one hasn't been 01:12:38.609 --> 01:12:41.759 done in ERCOT. To the extent that, you know, I think Commissioner 01:12:41.770 --> 01:12:44.628 McAdams was requesting and I think is important and 01:12:44.640 --> 01:12:47.149 other markets conduct throughout the country. (item:33:Commissioner Cobos' comments on real time optimization project) So um 01:12:47.189 --> 01:12:49.798 the the next topic I wanted to touch on was the real-time 01:12:49.810 --> 01:12:53.140 optimization project. And, and thank you for the timeline 01:12:53.289 --> 01:12:55.939 on and in terms of delivery. Well, I know this has 01:12:55.949 --> 01:12:59.329 been a topic that has been uh discussed for quite some 01:12:59.338 --> 01:13:02.220 time and I know that it remains a priority for the 01:13:02.229 --> 01:13:04.668 Commission. I think I can say that on behalf of us 01:13:04.680 --> 01:13:09.659 and, ERCOT as a is articulated. Um and, and I think 01:13:09.668 --> 01:13:13.560 it needs to remain a priority and when, when you um 01:13:13.569 --> 01:13:18.079 just for, so we're all clear on the record. RTC will 01:13:18.088 --> 01:13:20.838 be implemented and operationalized before the next 01:13:20.850 --> 01:13:21.699 ems upgrade. 01:13:24.229 --> 01:13:28.409 That that's the expected timeline, but there is a ems 01:13:28.418 --> 01:13:31.720 upgrade currently going on. Just want to make sure 01:13:32.569 --> 01:13:36.939 that that's not considered the next up. I'm thinking 01:13:36.949 --> 01:13:38.989 about the next one after this one is completed this 01:13:39.000 --> 01:13:43.588 it's Fall. And when, when does that start, what year? It's 01:13:43.600 --> 01:13:44.699 I believe 01:13:46.930 --> 01:13:52.569 2028 isn't it? (item:33:Kristi Hobbs on real time optimization project) We can follow up with you to get you 01:13:52.579 --> 01:13:55.359 the exact timelines that are on our road maps. But 01:13:55.409 --> 01:13:58.729 the goal was is we've kicked off the real time optimization 01:13:58.739 --> 01:14:01.909 project, we initiated that work because we have a window 01:14:01.918 --> 01:14:05.149 of opportunity now, as we complete the EMS upgrade 01:14:05.159 --> 01:14:08.890 this November, and there's this window of opportunity 01:14:08.899 --> 01:14:12.369 before the next EMS upgrade before the next MMS upgrade 01:14:12.640 --> 01:14:15.239 Um And that was why it was important to get the effort 01:14:15.250 --> 01:14:18.259 kicked off this Summer. Can you explain a little bit 01:14:18.270 --> 01:14:20.850 more about why this is a window of opportunity? Uh 01:14:20.859 --> 01:14:25.689 Meaning that um we've got the, the, the resources available 01:14:25.699 --> 01:14:28.439 to work on the effort because they are not focused 01:14:28.449 --> 01:14:32.939 on another uh upgrade of the systems. Well, and you're 01:14:32.949 --> 01:14:36.739 getting the, the the work done before another upgrade 01:14:36.750 --> 01:14:39.628 hits, which would delay the process if you don't meet 01:14:39.640 --> 01:14:44.119 that timeline correct by years potentially. So that 01:14:44.128 --> 01:14:46.640 that's kind of what the the goal is right to make sure 01:14:46.649 --> 01:14:50.359 we get this big project up and going once and for all 01:14:50.369 --> 01:14:52.529 before the next EMS upgrade. Because we don't get there 01:14:52.539 --> 01:14:56.869 by the next EMS upgrade, then it will be delayed for 01:14:56.878 --> 01:15:02.470 potentially years and. To delay it still further, in 01:15:02.479 --> 01:15:06.229 my view would be a strategic problem for the system 01:15:06.239 --> 01:15:10.859 given renewable penetration and co optimizing the broad 01:15:10.869 --> 01:15:13.859 suite of ancillaries that we have and frankly making 01:15:13.869 --> 01:15:17.359 the Legislative framework now as a result of HP1500 01:15:17.369 --> 01:15:22.350 work together, right? So HP 1500 speaks to the implementation 01:15:22.359 --> 01:15:28.109 of it. Sure does and not that that project needs to 01:15:28.119 --> 01:15:33.770 be completed. Um Well, before E Ems freezes us out 01:15:33.779 --> 01:15:37.520 again. Um So it, it, it's a problem if it's not so 01:15:37.529 --> 01:15:41.100 very good that ERCOT has recognized. Thank you. Yes 01:15:41.289 --> 01:15:43.208 And that will be great to see in the workflow chart 01:15:43.220 --> 01:15:46.350 as well. Um If anybody doesn't have anything on RTC 01:15:46.359 --> 01:15:48.520 anymore, (item:33:Commissioner Cobos' thoughts on ORDC Price Force) I'd like to move to the ORDC Price Force. 01:15:50.329 --> 01:15:54.048 Um And thank you for, for um highlighting this, I think 01:15:54.338 --> 01:15:57.680 uh you know, we, I wasn't here the last time you 01:15:57.689 --> 01:15:59.600 all talked about it. I know we still have to make a 01:15:59.609 --> 01:16:01.779 decision on it. I think I just want to reiterate that 01:16:01.789 --> 01:16:04.180 the main priority from my perspective continues to 01:16:04.189 --> 01:16:08.229 be to in, in self commitment and reduce RUC. Um But 01:16:08.239 --> 01:16:11.250 we have to ensure that these price floors that are 01:16:11.259 --> 01:16:15.628 added to the ORDC will in fact reduce RUC or it 01:16:15.640 --> 01:16:18.069 will need to be a bridged from my perspective. Um I 01:16:18.079 --> 01:16:22.418 know DRS is intended to required to reduce rock. And 01:16:22.430 --> 01:16:25.819 so, you know, this is, I think it's important that 01:16:25.829 --> 01:16:30.298 we start taking steps in that direction to preserve 01:16:30.310 --> 01:16:34.588 our long duration assets that help us meet multiday 01:16:34.699 --> 01:16:40.079 winter events. And so, you know, I look forward to 01:16:40.088 --> 01:16:44.569 moving forward to take action on this at the appropriate 01:16:44.579 --> 01:16:46.509 time I believe will be next month. 01:16:48.109 --> 01:16:50.720 Well, hold my fire. Do you have any thoughts on? Ok 01:16:51.048 --> 01:16:55.878 Um (item:33:Commissioner McAdams' comments on bridge) So many people have said um bridge, what is this 01:16:55.890 --> 01:16:58.779 a bridge to and I have an answer for that. Um This 01:16:58.789 --> 01:17:03.680 is certainly a bridge to DRRS. Um I, I believe uh this 01:17:03.689 --> 01:17:08.939 is something that we can implement uh sooner than DRS 01:17:08.949 --> 01:17:12.369 ultimately comes online. This will help the system 01:17:12.779 --> 01:17:16.878 um begin to induce self commitment to induce market 01:17:16.890 --> 01:17:21.789 driven behavior, which is the point of ERCOT is a free 01:17:21.798 --> 01:17:25.168 market uh with independent actors acting in their own 01:17:25.180 --> 01:17:27.588 self-interest. Well, this is a signal act in your self 01:17:27.600 --> 01:17:30.909 interest, uh commit um committing both day ahead and 01:17:30.918 --> 01:17:36.689 committing the energy market. Uh So I am open to the 01:17:36.699 --> 01:17:39.378 discussion around constraints ensuring that this is 01:17:39.390 --> 01:17:43.100 a bridge to something. But ultimately, DRRS will take 01:17:43.109 --> 01:17:49.088 some time um to, to become active. And then once DRRS 01:17:49.100 --> 01:17:52.378 is live, just like every other Ancillary, there'll 01:17:52.390 --> 01:17:56.720 be kind of a beta testing period where we iron out 01:17:56.729 --> 01:18:00.569 the issues related to its activation and engagement 01:18:00.579 --> 01:18:04.289 in the system, just like we see now with ECRS, there 01:18:04.298 --> 01:18:07.048 will be probably liquidity issues, there will be all 01:18:07.060 --> 01:18:08.430 these kind of um 01:18:10.159 --> 01:18:13.149 challenges that ERCOT will work through once it goes 01:18:13.159 --> 01:18:17.000 live to normalize the process by which it is it is 01:18:17.009 --> 01:18:20.560 used and the way the market sees its engagement in 01:18:20.569 --> 01:18:26.149 the, in the system. So I'm open to those type of uh 01:18:26.159 --> 01:18:31.378 parameters once we do finally um discuss uh which way 01:18:31.390 --> 01:18:34.289 we're gonna go on this. But I, I see value in the 01:18:34.298 --> 01:18:37.588 bridge and I think the market the loads should see 01:18:37.600 --> 01:18:40.668 value in the bridge even though I know it was debated 01:18:40.878 --> 01:18:46.939 Um This spring and consumer segments found uh found 01:18:46.949 --> 01:18:50.430 it problematic but if it helps reduce the rucking, 01:18:50.869 --> 01:18:54.439 it allows the market to function as a market. And that's 01:18:54.779 --> 01:18:57.259 I I just don't think we can continue down the road 01:18:57.270 --> 01:19:01.989 of, of acting in emergen on emergency conditions for 01:19:02.000 --> 01:19:05.319 another year and a half. That, that will be four years 01:19:05.329 --> 01:19:09.239 of acting under emergency protocols at that point utilizing 01:19:09.250 --> 01:19:13.640 RUC to the extent that we are for capacity. Um I think 01:19:13.649 --> 01:19:15.470 we've got to find another solution and I believe this 01:19:15.479 --> 01:19:18.878 was a means to do that. (item:33:Commissioner Cobos' follow-up comments) Good point on, you know, obviously 01:19:18.890 --> 01:19:22.369 I, I very much consider the consumer perspective in 01:19:22.378 --> 01:19:26.029 every decision that we make and what, how I view the 01:19:26.039 --> 01:19:28.829 bridging solution is not so much and it will provide 01:19:28.838 --> 01:19:31.439 revenue, additional revenue, stability to existing 01:19:31.449 --> 01:19:33.259 generation plants. And I think that's a good thing 01:19:33.579 --> 01:19:37.439 But from my perspective, it's, it's um you know, first 01:19:37.449 --> 01:19:41.918 and increasing self commitment to reduce RUC. And, 01:19:41.930 --> 01:19:44.759 and then that will provide a stable revenue stream 01:19:44.770 --> 01:19:46.979 and remove distortions that could actually cause more 01:19:46.989 --> 01:19:50.869 higher pricing outcomes for consumers. Yes, exactly 01:19:50.878 --> 01:19:54.149 And so um you know, to your point about the bridge 01:19:54.159 --> 01:19:56.039 the bridge to where I mean, I hear those questions 01:19:56.048 --> 01:19:59.390 too and those statements. Um ultimately, I think, you 01:19:59.399 --> 01:20:02.029 know, as many people, you know, as we all discussed 01:20:02.039 --> 01:20:05.989 it this ORDC price war concept, you know, we asked 01:20:06.060 --> 01:20:10.020 ERCOT to evaluate bridging solutions to long term resource 01:20:10.029 --> 01:20:13.600 adequacy reform. And so they went back, Canon and team 01:20:13.609 --> 01:20:15.708 went back, came up with a bunch of options they vetted 01:20:15.720 --> 01:20:17.399 and they presented to the board, the board approved 01:20:17.409 --> 01:20:21.548 the RR DC price wars. Um but the bridge was, although 01:20:21.560 --> 01:20:23.250 it, you know, has been very much paired with the PCM. 01:20:23.259 --> 01:20:27.180 It's really a bridge to long term market reform 01:20:27.189 --> 01:20:30.659 changes like the addition of DRS, like the implementation 01:20:30.668 --> 01:20:34.680 of RTC, like the implementation ultimately of PCM. 01:20:34.689 --> 01:20:40.720 So, um you know, in my opinion, not exactly tied 01:20:40.729 --> 01:20:43.890 to one mechanism but tied to long term market reform 01:20:43.899 --> 01:20:48.378 change that will ultimately um enhance reliability 01:20:48.390 --> 01:20:52.020 and moves in the direction of allowing the market to 01:20:52.029 --> 01:20:54.539 work where we don't have to rely on RUC as much. 01:20:56.399 --> 01:21:00.390 Well said. (item:33:Commissioner Glotfelty's response to Commissioner Cobos comments) All I hope is that the um so we're creating out of 01:21:00.399 --> 01:21:04.029 market actions to solve problems that were created 01:21:04.039 --> 01:21:07.759 by out of market actions. And it's my hope that we 01:21:07.770 --> 01:21:13.009 ultimately get back to uh with RTC and these other 01:21:13.020 --> 01:21:18.449 uh functions, a market structure that can rely on uh 01:21:18.458 --> 01:21:24.539 price signals itself to uh to generation. And um we 01:21:24.548 --> 01:21:28.529 continue the ORDC since 2017. Has been moved and moved 01:21:28.539 --> 01:21:31.020 and moved. And now we're putting a floor and all this 01:21:31.029 --> 01:21:35.878 is capacity money in some form. And at some point in 01:21:35.890 --> 01:21:40.458 time, you know, we, we just need to let the market 01:21:40.470 --> 01:21:43.189 work. And I think we're moving in that direction. But 01:21:43.199 --> 01:21:47.069 to me, it just must be noted that all of these actions 01:21:47.079 --> 01:21:50.390 are a result, almost all of them are a result of our 01:21:50.708 --> 01:21:55.119 initial actions that we, that ERCOT took, you know 01:21:55.128 --> 01:21:58.588 with the Commission after the Winter storm. (item:33:Commissioner McAdams on operational capacity) to address 01:21:58.600 --> 01:22:03.220 emergency conditions and the subsequent emergency conditions 01:22:03.289 --> 01:22:06.958 that have existed since COVID ended, the economy came 01:22:06.970 --> 01:22:10.074 back, Load began to increase renewable penetration 01:22:10.083 --> 01:22:13.305 increase. All of this was experienced one after a 12 01:22:13.314 --> 01:22:18.435 punch Winter Storm Uri. Um And, and then the, the dynamic 01:22:18.444 --> 01:22:21.854 economy of the State of Texas and, and uh population 01:22:21.864 --> 01:22:27.204 growth. And so I, I do not necessarily agree. Well 01:22:27.213 --> 01:22:31.289 my memo just keep pointing back to that memo, it is 01:22:31.298 --> 01:22:34.649 capacity but it's operational capacity, it is performance 01:22:34.659 --> 01:22:38.619 driven capacity. And that's an important distinction 01:22:38.838 --> 01:22:42.989 And uh it's, it's a Texas distinction and III I think 01:22:43.000 --> 01:22:47.289 the legislature recognized that. So, um they, they 01:22:47.298 --> 01:22:50.430 recognized that a bridge solution may be forthcoming 01:22:50.439 --> 01:22:53.020 They did not prevent us from doing it. They certainly 01:22:53.029 --> 01:22:54.829 had that opportunity. They wrote a lot of stuff in 01:22:54.838 --> 01:22:59.159 the law this session and, and I believe they, they 01:22:59.168 --> 01:23:02.409 have allowed us the discretion to, to look at this 01:23:02.418 --> 01:23:04.619 as a potential solution. The Legislature took great 01:23:04.628 --> 01:23:08.359 interest in RUCing this past Session and, and uh there 01:23:08.369 --> 01:23:11.140 was a lot of discussions about the need to reduce RUC 01:23:11.149 --> 01:23:14.359 I think there was a recognition that um RUC needed 01:23:14.369 --> 01:23:18.649 to be reduced and, and, um, you know, noting how much 01:23:18.659 --> 01:23:20.720 you know, it had been used in the past and we understand 01:23:20.729 --> 01:23:23.149 right there are emergency conditions after year and 01:23:23.310 --> 01:23:25.369 now we're trying to unpack everything and let plan 01:23:25.378 --> 01:23:28.329 for the future. And, um, so that's where we are right 01:23:28.338 --> 01:23:30.720 now and it's really pretty much all I have to say about 01:23:30.729 --> 01:23:33.100 the RDC price boards right now. Sure. I'll, I'll be 01:23:33.109 --> 01:23:37.298 quiet too. (item:33:Commissioner Cobos on PCM) Um One more topic I wanted to touch on because 01:23:37.310 --> 01:23:40.759 I think it's important uh the PCM um and the I 01:23:40.770 --> 01:23:45.000 know noted the um updated cost analysis that, you know 01:23:45.009 --> 01:23:48.579 we will have to require as a result of the House Bill 01:23:48.588 --> 01:23:54.159 1500 requirements. And um you know, in studying House 01:23:54.168 --> 01:23:59.189 Bill 1500 it's clear to me that um that the Legislation 01:23:59.199 --> 01:24:04.378 requires an evaluation of the cost of new entry as 01:24:04.390 --> 01:24:07.720 we're looking at workflow diagrams and ensuring that 01:24:07.729 --> 01:24:10.168 all our key priorities are implemented and everything 01:24:10.180 --> 01:24:13.369 Knowing where all the key components of all the major 01:24:13.378 --> 01:24:19.168 initiatives are. I think that one, one key study that needs 01:24:19.180 --> 01:24:22.310 to be initiated by ERCOT is a cost a new entry study 01:24:22.319 --> 01:24:26.548 because you will have to have that in order to complete 01:24:26.560 --> 01:24:28.989 the updated cost assessment required by House Bill 01:24:29.000 --> 01:24:33.458 1500. And I know that right now, ERCOT has a has a 01:24:33.470 --> 01:24:35.649 cone figure in their protocols that was established 01:24:35.659 --> 01:24:39.750 in 2012 over a 11 years ago. And my understanding is that 01:24:39.759 --> 01:24:42.770 there was no detailed coe study conducted to come up 01:24:42.779 --> 01:24:47.359 with that 105K figure, arguably it's outdated, given 01:24:47.369 --> 01:24:49.970 all the evolution of our market over the last 11 years 01:24:51.149 --> 01:24:55.720 So I don't think any real detailed in depth study of 01:24:55.729 --> 01:24:58.109 cone has been conducted in ERCOT to determine what 01:24:58.119 --> 01:25:00.640 is the cost of new entry. And for what really, I mean 01:25:00.689 --> 01:25:05.869 all the other markets um conduct a detailed cone study 01:25:05.878 --> 01:25:09.239 on a, on a cadence. Um I know that a certain specific 01:25:09.250 --> 01:25:12.539 cadence, like for instance, PJM, MISO and MISO New England 01:25:12.770 --> 01:25:15.979 I believe are on a four year cadence where they hire 01:25:15.989 --> 01:25:18.819 an independent consultant that comes in, conducts an 01:25:18.829 --> 01:25:22.500 in depth cone study and in the interim does annual 01:25:22.509 --> 01:25:25.338 updates because as we all know the market dynamic and 01:25:25.350 --> 01:25:29.668 co is ever changing, um I know my conducts one on an 01:25:29.680 --> 01:25:32.520 annual basis with their internal staff and the IMM 01:25:32.979 --> 01:25:35.829 and um it takes some time and it takes, you know, from 01:25:35.838 --> 01:25:39.390 I understand, depending on, on um you know, the level 01:25:39.399 --> 01:25:41.659 of engagement, ERCOT and the independent consultant 01:25:41.668 --> 01:25:44.890 have with stakeholders and other and the complexities 01:25:44.899 --> 01:25:47.720 of the study, it could take up to a year. So I 01:25:47.729 --> 01:25:50.470 just would like to understand if, you know, maybe you 01:25:50.479 --> 01:25:52.890 don't have the answer right now, but I do think that 01:25:52.909 --> 01:25:58.829 ERCOT needs to start um moving towards hiring an independent 01:25:58.838 --> 01:26:03.279 consultant to start this study because the figure is 01:26:03.289 --> 01:26:06.399 going to be a really important figure in that updated 01:26:06.409 --> 01:26:09.680 cost assessment. And I don't believe that ERCOT has 01:26:09.689 --> 01:26:13.560 ever done that detailed study. And the unfortunately 01:26:13.569 --> 01:26:16.250 the E3 study didn't go to the, it's not the detailed 01:26:16.259 --> 01:26:18.279 cone study that all the other markets conduct. So we 01:26:18.289 --> 01:26:20.810 need to get that done and I think we need to get 01:26:20.819 --> 01:26:22.810 started sooner rather than later because it's going 01:26:22.819 --> 01:26:25.720 to take some time to run. And not only is the column 01:26:25.729 --> 01:26:29.470 figure important for ultimate implementation of or 01:26:29.479 --> 01:26:32.229 or the cost updated cost assessment. And if we move 01:26:32.239 --> 01:26:35.168 forward to PCM based on whenever ultimately we get 01:26:35.180 --> 01:26:37.609 there, we move forward to PCM, it's gonna be important 01:26:37.619 --> 01:26:40.029 for those two factors. But it's also important because 01:26:40.039 --> 01:26:42.168 that's the parameter of how we measure whether or not 01:26:42.180 --> 01:26:44.088 there's enough revenue in the market to incent cost 01:26:44.220 --> 01:26:48.229 of entry. And, and, and as we're developing a reliability 01:26:48.239 --> 01:26:51.369 standard, you know, the cost of new entry is important 01:26:51.378 --> 01:26:53.390 and the revenue incentives that are associated with 01:26:53.399 --> 01:26:55.539 the cost of the entry because that's how we determine 01:26:55.548 --> 01:27:00.119 whether what incentives we need if we need to um if 01:27:00.128 --> 01:27:03.539 we need to take additional actions to take to, to meet 01:27:03.548 --> 01:27:06.869 the reliability standard. So I wanted just to highlight 01:27:06.878 --> 01:27:11.000 that because that I think it's important that it's 01:27:11.009 --> 01:27:14.649 on ERCOT's radar and, and we, you know, give some direction 01:27:14.659 --> 01:27:17.789 at some point if it's now or soon that they move forward 01:27:17.798 --> 01:27:19.899 and hiring an independent consultant to conduct this 01:27:19.909 --> 01:27:24.088 study. No, it establishes just like in all PUC proceedings 01:27:24.100 --> 01:27:27.270 it establishes the need case for any type of reform 01:27:27.279 --> 01:27:32.378 or government action. So, II, I think it would be essential 01:27:32.390 --> 01:27:37.069 to our evaluation process and uh can tell me if I'm 01:27:37.079 --> 01:27:41.458 wrong, but is it part of that the uh suite of decisions 01:27:41.470 --> 01:27:44.359 that have to be determined as a part of our PCM 01:27:44.369 --> 01:27:48.250 evaluation and frankly for, for other evaluations that 01:27:48.259 --> 01:27:51.649 we'll make. (item:33:Kenan Ögelman on cone study or analysis) there, there's lots of ways you could 01:27:51.659 --> 01:27:55.119 incorporate cone. But uh to get back to Commissioner 01:27:55.720 --> 01:28:01.250 Cobos, uh point about uh the statute requiring uh studies 01:28:01.259 --> 01:28:05.770 to be done from my perspective, that kind of that a 01:28:05.779 --> 01:28:10.668 cone study or analysis aligns with the requirements 01:28:10.680 --> 01:28:17.289 in the stature. So, um we, we are borrowing from a 01:28:17.298 --> 01:28:23.208 2012 study, the number that we have currently um and 01:28:23.220 --> 01:28:27.310 different numbers are going into studies. So for example 01:28:27.319 --> 01:28:31.270 I think I was talking to the imm they're using a different 01:28:31.279 --> 01:28:34.819 number than E3, the 105 number is different than 01:28:35.020 --> 01:28:39.560 E3 and what the real number is. Um there, there 01:28:39.569 --> 01:28:43.909 has not been a recent study. So to me, if you look 01:28:43.918 --> 01:28:48.850 at um a requirement to understand the cost benefit 01:28:48.899 --> 01:28:55.048 trade off, that is, that is a data point that is important 01:28:55.060 --> 01:28:58.259 to making the public policy decisions you're expected 01:28:58.270 --> 01:29:01.619 to make. So it sounds like we have alignment there 01:29:01.628 --> 01:29:05.350 in terms of the importance of again, data and decision 01:29:05.359 --> 01:29:05.810 making and 01:29:07.668 --> 01:29:11.699 yeah, absolutely. And thank you for that. And I think 01:29:11.708 --> 01:29:13.509 we're on the same page. It's just, you know, maybe 01:29:13.520 --> 01:29:15.729 at some point getting an update on where you all are 01:29:15.739 --> 01:29:18.279 in terms of issuing out an RFP to hire an independent 01:29:18.289 --> 01:29:19.649 consultant to get the study done. 01:29:21.668 --> 01:29:26.359 So you'll have it in the work plan. Yes. Great place 01:29:26.369 --> 01:29:31.199 to, to share that. Ok. So Lori, I'm glad you're back. 01:29:31.208 --> 01:29:33.628 You brought up some uh good issues today and I'm very 01:29:33.640 --> 01:29:37.829 glad that you did. She's been thinking. Very, very thoughtful 01:29:37.838 --> 01:29:42.199 on everyone's part. Okay. So I found some time. (item:33:Chairwoman Jackson summaries ORDC & DRRS) So to 01:29:42.208 --> 01:29:47.520 kind of summarize on the ORDC, what we discussed today 01:29:47.529 --> 01:29:51.520 was addressing it at the PUC August Open meeting in 01:29:51.529 --> 01:29:55.649 order for ERCOT to develop the revision request in 01:29:55.659 --> 01:30:00.039 time for the October ERCOT board meeting and on the 01:30:00.048 --> 01:30:04.009 DRRS, ERCOT's moving forward with the stakeholder discussions 01:30:04.270 --> 01:30:08.088 including hosting a stakeholder workshop on July 27th 01:30:08.430 --> 01:30:11.970 and appropriate revision requests to eventually implement 01:30:11.979 --> 01:30:18.369 DRS and then on our workflow. Um My expectation is 01:30:18.378 --> 01:30:21.430 that you'll reach out to PPUC staff and start working 01:30:21.439 --> 01:30:24.979 next week and then uh present it at the August 24th 01:30:24.989 --> 01:30:27.579 open meeting, something that y'all work in conjunction 01:30:27.588 --> 01:30:30.159 with staff and bring back to us. So, 01:30:32.979 --> 01:30:33.088 thank you. 01:30:34.779 --> 01:30:35.810 Thank you. Thank you. 01:30:39.588 --> 01:30:43.829 I don't have anything on Item 34, unless y'all do? Um 01:30:44.338 --> 01:30:49.298 we already discussed Items 35, 36 and 37. I don't have 01:30:49.310 --> 01:30:54.109 anything for the remainder of the Agenda. (item:38:Chairwoman Jackson confirms there is no closed session and adjourns meeting) There is 01:30:54.119 --> 01:30:56.939 nothing for closed session. There being no further 01:30:56.949 --> 01:30:59.989 business to come before the Commission. This meeting 01:31:00.000 --> 01:31:02.838 of the Public Utility Commission of Texas is hereby 01:31:02.850 --> 01:31:04.979 adjourned at 11:06. 01:31:08.869 --> 01:31:09.060 Well done Madam Chair.