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(item:0.1:Chairwoman Jackson calls meeting to order) Good morning. This meeting of the Public Utility Commission

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of Texas will come to order to consider matters that

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have been duly posted with the Secretary of State for

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September 14, 2023 for the record. My name is Kathleen

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Jackson. I'm joined by Will McAdams, Lori Cobos and

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Jimmy Glotfelty. Today is our first open meeting with

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public comment on individual items as you probably

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saw when you arrived this morning, um agenda from our

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office of Public Engagement was available to greet

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you and help you sign up to speak. We will call you

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up for each a agenda. Number, item

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(item:0.1:Chairwoman Jackson asks for Public comment for matters not posted)  Comments on general matters will still be taken up

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under item number one, consistent with our previous

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open meetings. Speakers will be limited to three minutes

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each and public comment is not available for contested

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cases. Let's begin with item number one, general comments

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for topics not specifically posted on this agenda.

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Sheila, do we have anyone from the public signed up

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to speak? No, ma'am. No one has signed up for item

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number one. Ok. This completes item number one, (item:0.2:Shelah Cisneros lays out consent agenda) Shelah

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will you please walk us through the consent items on

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today's agenda? Yes, Good morning commissioners before

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I get to the consent agenda, I just want to note that

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Commissioner Cobos has recused herself from item number

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23 docket number 55155. And then for the consent agenda

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by individual ballot, the following items are placed

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on your consent agenda. Items 2, 4, 5, 13 through 17, 20, 21,

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and 24.  (item:0.2:Chairwoman Jackson asks for motion to approve items on consent agenda) I will entertain a motion to approve the items

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just described by Shelah. Second. All in favor say

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I I motion passes (item:41:Project No. 55153 – Review of § 22.52. - Proposal for Adoption - Not taken up) additionally. Item 41 will not be

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taken up. Item number two was consented next up is

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(item:3:Shelah Cisneros lays out  Application of CSWR-Texas Utility Operating Company) item number three, Sheila, will you please lay out

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this item? Yes, ma'am. Item number three is second

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number 54393. This is the application of CS Wr Texas

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Utility Operating Company and intermediary Solutions

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for the sale transfer, merger of facilities and certificate

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rights in Lubbock County. Before usa proposed interim

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order, CS Wr filed exceptions to the proposed interim

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order. The A LJ filed a memo declining to make the

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changes to the proposed order. And Commissioner Jackson

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filed a memo in this docket. (item:3:Chairwoman Jackson lays out her memo) I filed a memo. I'd like

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to discuss several issues regarding capital improvement

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plans under statute and commission rule. In the proposed

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interim order. The commission administrative law judge

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required that CS Wr Texas file a capital improvement

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plan before final improvement of the transaction could

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be granted. CS Wr Texas provided a third party's engineer

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preliminary itemized list of repairs and the estimated

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cost, the total cost of necessary capital improvements

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and a timeline for repairs. Cr Texas filings collectively

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address the capital improvement plan requirements for

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a budget, a timeline but do not meet the requirement

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for a map. Key to the budget and timeline as required

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by 16 24.233 a six. Therefore, I recommend that the

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commission make the following changes to the proposed

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interim order as described in my memo. So as to be

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in compliance with both statute and commission rules

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so any thoughts on this? (item:3:Commissioner McAdams agrees with memo) No madam chair, I agree with

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your memo. I would move that we adopt a propose in

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order as amended by your memo. Ok, thank you one second

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Ok, I have a motion and uh, a second to adopt the

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proposed interim order, um, including modifications

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consistent with my memo. Um, all in favor, say I I

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motion passes, um, in, (item:3:Chairwoman Jackson notes thoughts on term - capital improvement plan) in several dockets, I've noticed

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that the term capital improvement plan is not well

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defined. And, um, Connie, do you think we should clarify

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in a rule making? Uh, what should be included in a

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capital improvement plan when it's feasible for our

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PUC staff to address it? Yes, ma'am. We'll add that

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to the list. Ok, thank you very much.

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Items, four and five were consented. (item:6:Water and Sewer Utility Rates After Acquisition - Proposal for Publication) Next up is item

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number six, project number 53924. This is the commission's

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rule making regarding water and sewer utility rights

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after acquisition, Sheila. Do we have anyone from the

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public signed up to speak on item number six? No, ma'am

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no incentive to speak on this item. Ok, thank you.

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I want the commission staff filed a memo and a proposal

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for publication. Ok. (item:6:David Smeltzer provides brief overview of proposal) We have uh David Smeltzer with

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the PUC staff here. Um David, would you provide a brief

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overview of this proposal for publication? I sure will

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Hi David Smeltzer Commission staff. (item:6:David Smeltzer call rulemaking slightly overdue, cites HB1484) This is rule making

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is a little bit overdue. It's one of the boxes that

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we need to check from HB1484 from the 87 legislation

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And I think this is a really important rule making

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for us to get underway in short. It allows for in water

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transactions. It allows for an acquiring utility to

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apply the rates from one of their preexisting and approved

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tariffs to the acquired utility in sort of sale, transformer

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transactions. This is important because it allows water

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systems to begin getting recovery at higher rates sooner

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so that they can implement changes and it should facilitate

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more transactions in the water space. Um The, the the

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nomenclature of the of the rule is that it would allow

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them to apply authorized acquisition rates. Um And

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there are a number of requirements that are involved

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with this rule making including the submission of a

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capital improvement plan based on discussions that

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we've had. I think that staff is going to recommend

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one change to the proposal for publication from what

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is filed. And that is out of recognition of the fact

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that sale transfer merger proceedings are also CCN

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proceedings. The there is a statutory requirement for

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a capital improvement plan as part of all water CCN

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proceedings. And so this draft as a capital improvement

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plan if available. And because of the statutory requirement

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with regard to CCN S, we would modify the proposed

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order by striking that if available. And just for the

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proposal stage, we would require a capital improvement

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plan. And so we would look for commission action on

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this to adopt this proposal publication with that modification

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Any thoughts on this one that seems consistent with

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what you just uh alluded to madam chair. It's pure

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coincidence.

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(item:6:Motion to adopt proposal for publication) I would move to adopt the proposal for publication

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with the proposed change that staff has provided. I

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have a motion in a second all in favor. Say I I

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motion passes

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(item:7:Review of 16 TAC § 24.101 – Water Rate Appeals - Proposal for Adoption) next up is item number seven project number 54932.

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This is the commission's rule making regarding its

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review of 16 Texas administrative code 24.11 water

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rate appeals, Sheila, do we have anyone from the public

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signed up to speak on item number seven?

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Uh David, would you please please provide a brief overview

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of staff's recommendation? (item:7:Iliana De La Fuente lays out Project No. 54932 – Review of 16 TAC § 24.101) Iliana De La Fuente from our division

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is gonna play this out. Ok. Um Hi Ian de from commission

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staff. Um So this rule making uh implements Senate

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Bill 3 87 and House Bill 36 89 amendments to Texas

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water code 13.0 43. And these amendments uh essentially

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reflect the commission's appellate authority uh to

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allow ratepayers to appeal an increase in an mou uh

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water or sewer, uh rate case including a rate increase

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resulting from a decision by a governing body of a

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municipality. So it just clarifies um, our appellate

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authority and we just ask that y'all adopt the rule

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as amended. You have any thoughts on this one or? Yeah

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I agree with it. (item:7:Movement to adopt proposal for publication) I would have, I would move to uh

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adopt a proposal for um application.

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You would move to approve stance recommendation. So

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I have a motion and a second all in favor say I

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I motion passes.

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I don't have anything on it. Sorry just I don't know

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if Sheila needs this. Well, he said for publication

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but we meant adoption. No, II I moved to what she said

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So

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I was listening.

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Ok, I don't have anything on items eight or nine unless

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y'all do the next two items. Items 10 and 11 will be

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taken up together. Sheila, will you please lay out

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these items? Yes, ma'am. (item:10:Shelah Cisneros lays out Compliance Filing for Docket No 52321) Item 10 is docket number 52709

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The compliance filing for docket number 52321, which

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was the application of ERCOT for a debt obligation

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order persuant PURA Chapter 39 step chapter M as in Mary

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and (item:11:Shelah Cisneros lays out Compliance Filing for Docket No. 52322) item number 11 is docket number 52710. The compliance

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filing for Docket number 52322. That was the application

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of ERCOT for a debt obligation order. Pursuant to PURA

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Chapter 39 subchapter, N as in Nancy. (item:10:Memo from commission staff requesting guidance) Before you is

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um a memo from commission staff requesting guidance

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on from the commission on certain issues and that was

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filed in docket number 52710. Ok. Any thoughts on these

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(item:10:Commissioner McAdams call for creation of separate docket) I I do uh madam chair. Um Basic situation is securitization

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continues to be a complex process that raises novel

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issues for the commission to consider. And I'm sure

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our market participants want clear guidance from the

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commission. However, I believe we need to instruct

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staff to file a petition for a declaratory order in

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a separate document docket. In this instance, this

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compliance docket is not an appropriate home for addressing

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the issues in question. Um We need somewhere to build

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a record on the issues and if necessary get briefing

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from market participants. Therefore, uh pending any

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discussion, I I would move that we direct staff to

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file a petition for a declaratory order in a separate

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docket. (item:10:Motion to adopt proposal) We have motion. Do we have a second motion

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in a second? Uh All in favor of say I I motion

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passes. That's for items 10 and 11. Correct? Yes,

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(item:12:Shelah Cisneros lays out SOAH Docket No. 473-22-2464 – Application) Next up is item number 12, Sheila, will you please

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lay out this item? Yes, ma'am. Number number 12 is

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52728. This is the application of the city of College

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Station to change rates for a wholesale transmission

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service. The commission previously considered this

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docket at the January 26th of meeting and the commission

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remanded the docket to SOAH for further processing

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before you know, is a so a proposal for a decision

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that was filed on July 27th, we had three parties that

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filed exceptions to the proposal for decision College

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Station, Tiec and Commission staff. The so AJ has filed

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a memo uh making one correction to the proposal for

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decision. We have uh a memo filed in the docket from

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the Commissioner McAdams. We also uh have oral argument

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that was requested in the docket and the commission

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voted to grant oral argument.

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Sheila, could you please call up the parties um individually

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for oral argument. Each party will have three minutes

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to speak. Yes, ma'am. (item:12:Oral argument from Thomas Brocato, City of College Station) The first person of the first

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party that decided to speak. I believe, sorry, we have

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individuals but not uh party names, but I believe it's

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going to be a college station.

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Good morning commissioners, Thomas on behalf of the

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city of College Station before I begin with my time

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If um with your indulgence, um if I could just introduce

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um some elected officials who joined me today and then

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I'll turn it over to the mayor and the city manager

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to um make the, the comments.

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Uh then um if I May today, we've got council member

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uh Mr Bob Yancey, council member, Elizabeth Coa council

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member Dennis Maloney, council member, Mark Smith and

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council member, William Wright. Uh We've also got the

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mayor, um John Nichols and then the city manager, um

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Brian Woods. Um So I'll turn it over to them to uh

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make the comments

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before I begin and I may have missed it chairman. And

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if I did my apologies, but did you set a time limit

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for all, for all argument? Three minutes, three minutes

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for each person?

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Uh Thank you Commission. As Thomas said, I'm Brian

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Woods, I'm the city Manager of College Station. I'm

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hoping I will only use one of your minutes. Um uh First

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I just want to thank you for granting us the oral arguments

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And also, uh we read the memo from Commissioner McAdams

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and obviously support the sentiment there. Um So I

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only want to get a few things out and, um, we, we

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see where the goes. I just want to emphasize that the

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city of College Station and College Station utilities

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is always trying to do what's right in these scenarios

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And I believe we did from the beginning and obviously

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this is, goes back long before my tenure, your tenure

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or a lot of the staff, everything we did in the interim

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filings. I know you guys have seen it was written in

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the direction of staff and other commissions

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which we all we all performed in good faith. So when

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we got to this place, um and obviously, we still feel

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like we did the right thing we did in good faith, negotiate

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with staff, we came to a settlement, the staff recommended

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and had no objection by the T I. Obviously, since then

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there's been some other things that have transpired

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but we do feel appreciative of the process. And again

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the commissioner's memo because we feel like if that

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process plays out that we'll get to the right answer

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And I think that's what we all want.

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So I'll conclude by just saying that we're supportive

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if the commission wants to send that back to the administrative

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judge to get a ruling there and we will withhold any

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final discussion until that point. And then we'll just

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ask finally of consideration of the fact that while

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we definitely want this to be done, right? And we're

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willing to wait additional time. Um, we have, uh, been

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going through the process for two years, which also

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has an impact to our customers, but I appreciate very

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much the time and, and everything you all have done

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to this point and I will turn it over to the mayor

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and thank you very much. Uh I appreciate the opportunity

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to speak as well. Uh Our city manager covered most

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of the relevant points and a law judges, uh procedural

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documents certainly document that we have complied

00:15:01.538 --> 00:15:05.798
with PUC staff and commission uh guidance uh throughout

00:15:05.808 --> 00:15:08.750
the entire time we filed these interim filings. Uh

00:15:08.759 --> 00:15:11.729
I would just add that the City College Station really

00:15:11.739 --> 00:15:14.500
does find itself in a difficult situation. As you know

00:15:14.509 --> 00:15:18.500
we're a very fast growing city. We host the nation's

00:15:18.509 --> 00:15:21.739
largest public university. We have a lot of people

00:15:21.889 --> 00:15:25.298
moving in and out of the city, uh uh in, in, uh

00:15:25.649 --> 00:15:28.979
and we manage it in a, in a way that we think

00:15:28.989 --> 00:15:31.979
is uh providing great services and a great community

00:15:31.989 --> 00:15:34.609
to live in. Uh We do not believe that it is really

00:15:34.619 --> 00:15:37.779
fair to be financially penalized for following the

00:15:37.788 --> 00:15:40.548
explicit directions of pe C staff and commission over

00:15:40.558 --> 00:15:43.479
this period of time. Ultimately, the cost of this settlement

00:15:43.489 --> 00:15:45.899
we paid for by the ratepayers of college station electric

00:15:45.908 --> 00:15:49.950
utilities. Uh We agree with the sentiments in Commissioner

00:15:49.960 --> 00:15:53.330
McAdams memo and as the city manager said, uh would

00:15:53.340 --> 00:15:58.710
you deem inappropriate to remand this? We will present

00:15:58.719 --> 00:16:02.298
our case at that time. Thank you very much. Thank you

00:16:02.649 --> 00:16:05.229
Thank you, commissioners. I appreciate y'all being

00:16:05.239 --> 00:16:08.219
here and all of the folks that came to support you

00:16:09.210 --> 00:16:11.460
Commissioner McAdams, you filed a memo. Could you please

00:16:11.469 --> 00:16:13.849
land? Oh, chairman, sorry. Before you start, we have

00:16:13.859 --> 00:16:15.889
one more party that sign up to speak. I'm sorry. That's

00:16:15.899 --> 00:16:18.219
all right. Commission staff signed up to speak.

00:16:24.918 --> 00:16:25.330
It does.

00:16:33.269 --> 00:16:35.928
Good morning chairman and commissioners. Um Mildred

00:16:35.940 --> 00:16:40.000
and Alley for commission staff and for commission staff

00:16:40.009 --> 00:16:44.820
We just want to reiterate that staff has um contemplated

00:16:44.830 --> 00:16:50.090
all the issues um laid out in this docket. Um We believe

00:16:50.099 --> 00:16:53.479
that we in our briefs, our initial brief, as well as

00:16:53.489 --> 00:16:57.099
our reply brief. We, you know, we consider the mitigating

00:16:57.109 --> 00:16:59.840
factors and we stand by our recommendation that was

00:16:59.849 --> 00:17:02.519
presented to the ALJs. Thank you.

00:17:06.500 --> 00:17:08.709
All right, no other party signed up to speak.

00:17:10.618 --> 00:17:12.799
(item:12:Commissioner McAdams lays out memo)  Uh Commissioner McAdams. Could you please lay out your

00:17:12.809 --> 00:17:16.549
memo? Absolutely madam chair. Thank you. Um I follow

00:17:16.559 --> 00:17:19.150
this memo because I think the ALJs in this situation

00:17:19.160 --> 00:17:21.989
uh may have run a bit too far with our order on

00:17:22.000 --> 00:17:24.900
remand. Um And I think that's a key distinction in

00:17:24.910 --> 00:17:29.000
terms of the process. Um An order on remand is an interim

00:17:29.009 --> 00:17:33.170
order, uh not a final order. And if the SOAH LJ thought

00:17:33.180 --> 00:17:36.199
that we had made a final decision, then they misunderstood

00:17:36.209 --> 00:17:39.219
the nature of the interim order. Um and our discussion

00:17:39.229 --> 00:17:44.098
at the January 26th open meeting. Um I, I think it's

00:17:44.108 --> 00:17:48.430
important that we are not prejudging uh what we are

00:17:48.858 --> 00:17:53.568
referring to SOAH to solve for us, we need so a process

00:17:53.578 --> 00:17:56.809
to bring forward the relevant arguments and facts so

00:17:56.818 --> 00:18:00.279
that we can uh incorporate, incorporate those facts

00:18:00.289 --> 00:18:03.680
in our ultimate deliberation on a final order. Um as

00:18:03.689 --> 00:18:06.920
such, I believe that we should the PFD in this instance

00:18:06.930 --> 00:18:10.828
and rescind our remand order of January 26 2023 this

00:18:10.838 --> 00:18:13.180
should be remanded to. So with clear instruction that

00:18:13.189 --> 00:18:15.588
we had not reached a final decision on any contested

00:18:15.598 --> 00:18:19.618
issues while continuing to reject the proposed settlement

00:18:20.059 --> 00:18:24.029
Therefore pinning any feedback. I certainly have a

00:18:24.039 --> 00:18:27.368
motion and would move that we reject the PFD rescind

00:18:27.380 --> 00:18:30.420
our previous remand order and remand us to SOAH consistent

00:18:30.430 --> 00:18:33.959
with my memo and our ultimate discussion. You have

00:18:33.969 --> 00:18:37.789
any discussion on this. I, (item:12:Commissioner Glotfelty in support of memo) I agree with Commissioner

00:18:37.799 --> 00:18:39.979
McAdams in the memo and uh I think that that's the

00:18:39.989 --> 00:18:44.219
most expeditious way forward and, uh, I am fully prepared

00:18:44.229 --> 00:18:47.019
to support it and would second the motion if, if agreed

00:18:47.029 --> 00:18:52.650
to. (item:12:Motion on item) Ok, we have a motion and a second. Uh, all in

00:18:52.660 --> 00:18:55.519
favor say I I motion passes

00:18:57.818 --> 00:18:57.848
come

00:19:01.759 --> 00:19:08.410
items. 13, 14, 15, 16 and 17 were consented. (item:18:Joint Application of Bluebonnet Electric Cooperative, Inc. and LCRA) Next up

00:19:08.420 --> 00:19:11.160
is item number 18, Sheila, will you please lay out

00:19:11.170 --> 00:19:16.039
this item? Yes, ma'am. Item is stuck at number 54849

00:19:16.088 --> 00:19:18.660
This is the joint application of Blue Bon Electric

00:19:18.670 --> 00:19:22.858
Coop and LCR A transmission services to transfer CCN

00:19:22.868 --> 00:19:25.739
rights in Burleson County. Before you use a proposed

00:19:25.750 --> 00:19:29.509
order, Blue Bonnet and LCR A jointly filed corrections

00:19:29.519 --> 00:19:32.368
The A LJ filed a memo revising the proposed order.

00:19:32.479 --> 00:19:34.969
(item:18:Commissioner Glotfelty lays out memo) And Commissioner Glotfelty filed a memo in this Dockett

00:19:36.479 --> 00:19:39.469
Will you please lay out your memo? Absolutely, uh,

00:19:39.848 --> 00:19:45.539
commissioners, um, the law, um PURA requires that any

00:19:45.549 --> 00:19:49.338
purchase assignment or lease, um, requires that the

00:19:49.348 --> 00:19:51.539
commission determine that the purchaser assignee or

00:19:51.549 --> 00:19:53.818
less he can provide adequate service, which I think

00:19:53.828 --> 00:19:56.219
is missing in this order, the revised proposed order

00:19:56.229 --> 00:20:00.059
should be modified to indicate as in my memo that the

00:20:00.068 --> 00:20:03.170
order includes a statutory determination and findings

00:20:03.180 --> 00:20:05.289
of fact supporting that determination. Therefore, I

00:20:05.299 --> 00:20:10.189
move that the revised proposed order. I move to support

00:20:10.199 --> 00:20:13.068
the revised proposal order as modified by my memo which

00:20:13.838 --> 00:20:21.890
clearly lays out that LCR A is the purchaser assigning

00:20:21.900 --> 00:20:25.709
a lessee and that they do have the the

00:20:28.529 --> 00:20:32.049
ability to provide adequate service under this order

00:20:32.059 --> 00:20:34.779
and under our law and rules

00:20:36.650 --> 00:20:40.239
muffled. (item:18:Motion on joint application) I I would support that in a second, uh, pending

00:20:40.250 --> 00:20:44.180
in thoughts from the other end of the day. Ok. Ok.

00:20:44.189 --> 00:20:47.568
We have a motion in second, all in favor. Say I I

00:20:47.578 --> 00:20:52.529
motion passes (item:19:Application of South Texas Electric Cooperative, Inc. to Amend) next up is item number 19. Uh Sheila

00:20:52.539 --> 00:20:55.838
will you please lay out this item? Yes, item 19 is

00:20:55.848 --> 00:20:59.719
second at number 54936. This is the application of

00:20:59.729 --> 00:21:02.689
South Texas Electric co-op to amend it CCN for San

00:21:02.699 --> 00:21:06.838
Miguel de Cruz double circuit 3 45 KV transmission

00:21:06.848 --> 00:21:09.549
line. Before you use a proposed order that addresses

00:21:09.559 --> 00:21:12.299
an unopposed agreement between the parties, stack,

00:21:12.348 --> 00:21:15.259
filed corrections and exceptions to the proposed order

00:21:15.539 --> 00:21:18.759
The ALJ filed a memo revising the proposed order. A

00:21:18.858 --> 00:21:21.789
commission council memo is filed, recommending changes

00:21:21.799 --> 00:21:24.689
to the proposed order and Commissioner McAdams filed

00:21:24.699 --> 00:21:28.088
a memo in this docket. (item:19:Commissioner McAdams lays out memo) Commissioner McAdams, would

00:21:28.098 --> 00:21:32.199
you please lay out your memo? Yes, ma'am. Um, members

00:21:32.209 --> 00:21:34.848
I filed a memo in the dock in an attempt to get

00:21:34.858 --> 00:21:38.509
a little clarity on this agreement and to address some

00:21:38.519 --> 00:21:42.439
potential safety concerns uh that have arisen through

00:21:42.449 --> 00:21:46.459
the process. There are plenty of reasons in my view

00:21:46.578 --> 00:21:49.279
to oppose this settlement. However, this is a critical

00:21:49.289 --> 00:21:52.150
line. This is important to the state and to the ERCOT

00:21:52.160 --> 00:21:57.059
system. Um There are a number of affected habitable

00:21:57.068 --> 00:22:00.739
structures among them, but I think we can productively

00:22:00.750 --> 00:22:05.259
at this stage, talk this out and I would ask, uh as

00:22:05.269 --> 00:22:08.509
a part of my layout, can staff uh begin approaching

00:22:08.650 --> 00:22:09.608
as well as

00:22:12.509 --> 00:22:16.588
I grudge for commission staff? Ok, I appreciate you

00:22:16.598 --> 00:22:18.068
humoring me on us. Of course,

00:22:21.630 --> 00:22:23.189
I can just go if you be

00:22:25.828 --> 00:22:30.608
while they form ranks right. Musical chairs. Good morning

00:22:30.618 --> 00:22:33.318
commissioners. I'm Jennifer Littlefield with stack

00:22:33.328 --> 00:22:37.689
and with me is Corey Allen, the Director of Power Delivery

00:22:38.430 --> 00:22:43.549
Great. Um I've also asked staff to have representatives

00:22:43.559 --> 00:22:46.529
from the uh National Guard Bureau and the Department

00:22:46.539 --> 00:22:49.838
of the Navy. Um And I believe that staff has them on

00:22:49.848 --> 00:22:53.299
the phone. Uh Do we need a moment to get that set

00:22:53.309 --> 00:22:56.059
up, please? I'll, I'll give him a call right now, Greg

00:22:56.769 --> 00:23:00.140
So I'm gonna call Jamie Flanders first from the National

00:23:00.150 --> 00:23:01.509
Air Air National Guard

00:23:06.098 --> 00:23:08.838
and you'll hold it once you begin, hold it as close

00:23:08.848 --> 00:23:10.618
to the microphone as you can for the core reporter

00:23:12.078 --> 00:23:14.699
Good morning, sir. This is Pat. Good morning, Pat.

00:23:14.709 --> 00:23:18.759
Uh This is I grudge, uh calling from the PUC. I'm sorry

00:23:18.769 --> 00:23:20.949
it was called Pat first. Hold on just a moment. I don't

00:23:20.959 --> 00:23:22.380
think she can hear it. Can you turn the volume up at

00:23:22.390 --> 00:23:28.219
all or maybe speaker speaker? Ok. Go, can you introduce

00:23:28.229 --> 00:23:29.318
yourself, please? Pat

00:23:33.838 --> 00:23:38.269
Hi. Can you hear me? Yes. Can, can you hear me? Yes

00:23:38.459 --> 00:23:41.910
hello? It's like we're having, uh, can you please introduce

00:23:41.920 --> 00:23:42.489
yourself?

00:23:45.500 --> 00:23:48.390
I think we're having a connection issue, of course

00:23:50.880 --> 00:23:51.078
Mhm.

00:23:54.180 --> 00:23:56.939
I try calling again. Excuse me? I understand this is

00:23:56.949 --> 00:23:59.828
awkward. Uh It it will be productive. Um

00:24:01.500 --> 00:24:04.309
Unfortunately, I get only two bars in here. Of course

00:24:07.189 --> 00:24:08.430
Yes, I can hear you.

00:24:10.180 --> 00:24:14.289
Hold on just a moment. I think the court is still part

00:24:14.380 --> 00:24:14.529
of your.

00:24:16.630 --> 00:24:23.539
Hello, Mr Powers. Yes, sir. Yeah, go ahead. Can you

00:24:23.549 --> 00:24:26.699
please introduce yourself? Yes, I'm Patrick Powers

00:24:26.709 --> 00:24:31.239
I am the uh Navy Region Southeast Deputy Mission Sustainment

00:24:31.250 --> 00:24:35.979
Officer and Navy Region Southeast is the uh the headquarters

00:24:35.989 --> 00:24:39.799
that owns all the installations and equities for Navy

00:24:39.809 --> 00:24:44.539
in Southeast, from Texas to Guantanamo Bay. Ok, perfect

00:24:44.549 --> 00:24:47.848
Um So let me continue through my layout and then I'm

00:24:47.858 --> 00:24:52.420
gonna ask Mr Powers some questions. Um And then are

00:24:52.430 --> 00:24:56.789
we going to merge in uh National Guard? Yeah, go ahead

00:24:56.799 --> 00:25:00.309
and merge in National Guard and we'll have them identify

00:25:00.318 --> 00:25:03.199
themselves before they speak for confirmation for the

00:25:03.209 --> 00:25:06.039
recorder. If you can hold on one second please, Mr

00:25:06.049 --> 00:25:06.539
Powers.

00:25:12.979 --> 00:25:14.880
Sorry, this is out of the ordinary everybody, but this

00:25:14.890 --> 00:25:17.618
is a reliability line. We're going to make this happen

00:25:19.199 --> 00:25:22.739
No, we appreciate um the attention and wanna make sure

00:25:22.750 --> 00:25:25.890
we get it right. It would be helpful for him to be

00:25:25.900 --> 00:25:29.108
closer to him. Hello? This is Jamie. Hi, Mr Flanders

00:25:29.118 --> 00:25:31.410
This is Ian Gretch from the puc of Texas.

00:25:33.289 --> 00:25:36.608
Hi. I'm gonna merge you with a call uh with Mr Powers

00:25:37.250 --> 00:25:37.799
Ok.

00:25:44.719 --> 00:25:47.199
Right. So before each person speaks, it's gonna be

00:25:47.209 --> 00:25:49.098
hard for the court reporter to distinguish which person

00:25:49.108 --> 00:25:51.140
is speaking whenever they speak. If they could just

00:25:51.150 --> 00:25:54.309
say their name first, that would be helpful. Did you

00:25:54.318 --> 00:25:58.509
all hear that? Yes. OK. Thank you. OK. (item:19:Representatives of US Navy, Texas Air National Guard testify by phone) We now have

00:25:58.519 --> 00:26:02.118
Mr uh Patrick Powers and Jamie Flanders on the phone

00:26:02.130 --> 00:26:05.900
as I understand it. So, gentlemen, I, I'll have some

00:26:05.910 --> 00:26:09.289
questions for you both. But at the start, let me say

00:26:09.299 --> 00:26:12.910
it, the purpose of my memo was that I was, I was

00:26:12.920 --> 00:26:15.939
uh concerned that stacks opposition to your, with your

00:26:15.949 --> 00:26:19.088
with stack's opposition to your motions to intervene

00:26:19.618 --> 00:26:22.170
Uh I believe the safety concerns highlighted after

00:26:22.180 --> 00:26:25.170
the fact warrant further discussion trying to bring

00:26:25.180 --> 00:26:29.009
forward how to ultimately resolve uh any safety concerns

00:26:29.358 --> 00:26:33.479
Um And I hope that ST e would take the safety of

00:26:33.489 --> 00:26:35.759
the pilots and certainly the communities in that surrounding

00:26:35.769 --> 00:26:41.348
area into uh into consideration as we try to find mitigation

00:26:41.358 --> 00:26:45.959
strategies in a path forward. Um Now, I can't say ultimately

00:26:45.969 --> 00:26:49.328
how I would necessarily vote on such a motion, but

00:26:49.338 --> 00:26:51.910
I would be very interested to see the Navy and National

00:26:51.920 --> 00:27:00.029
Guards, um uh how they felt um And whether they need

00:27:00.039 --> 00:27:03.068
to file or would be interested in filing new motions

00:27:03.078 --> 00:27:06.568
for intervention with requests for good cause exception

00:27:06.578 --> 00:27:10.828
for lateness. Um And what we might do in that situation

00:27:11.709 --> 00:27:14.689
And so, uh but the process might not be necessary and

00:27:14.699 --> 00:27:18.019
that process might not be necessary depending on how

00:27:18.029 --> 00:27:20.078
the conversation goes today. And that's why you gentlemen

00:27:20.088 --> 00:27:24.618
are on the phone. So as it relates to uh Mr Powers

00:27:24.630 --> 00:27:28.979
in the Department of the Navy. Um First sir, are there

00:27:28.989 --> 00:27:32.160
any segments in the settlement route that you are concerned

00:27:32.170 --> 00:27:32.479
with?

00:27:34.680 --> 00:27:37.568
Was that what the, are you speaking about the original

00:27:37.578 --> 00:27:41.719
route, sir? Or the alternate route that was passed

00:27:41.729 --> 00:27:46.059
a couple of months ago, the CCPS dash X alternate route

00:27:46.068 --> 00:27:48.578
that's correct, better known as route X and that is

00:27:48.588 --> 00:27:52.680
the alternate route that was passed uh recently. Yes

00:27:53.170 --> 00:27:57.049
Um the, the Navy is good, sir with the C CBS X

00:27:57.059 --> 00:28:00.549
route hot dog. That's good. Ok, and you're good with

00:28:00.559 --> 00:28:05.559
the, the line height, right? Yes, sir. Ok, good to

00:28:05.568 --> 00:28:10.279
go. Um And this may be short us National Guard. Uh

00:28:10.640 --> 00:28:16.029
Mr Flanders, same question to you by the airspace manager

00:28:16.039 --> 00:28:18.939
for the uh Air National Guard, representing at this

00:28:18.949 --> 00:28:23.259
point, the Texas Air National Guard, specifically the

00:28:23.269 --> 00:28:27.559
1 49th Fighter Wing out of Kelly Field. Uh That was

00:28:27.568 --> 00:28:30.809
a very long statement to do exactly what Mr Power said

00:28:30.818 --> 00:28:35.449
we have reviewed the X route and we concur with the

00:28:35.459 --> 00:28:39.250
proposal as written, there will be minimal impacts

00:28:39.259 --> 00:28:43.239
to our training mission. However, we can mitigate those

00:28:43.519 --> 00:28:47.108
And as long as you remain away from mcmullin Range

00:28:47.118 --> 00:28:48.789
we have no further concerns over.

00:28:51.729 --> 00:28:55.088
Ok. Good to go. Well, Adam, can we clarify the height

00:28:55.098 --> 00:29:00.459
of the Mr Mr Flanders as proposed? And what's before

00:29:00.469 --> 00:29:08.818
the commission is a, is a uh 175 ft uh 3 45

00:29:08.828 --> 00:29:14.000
kalt transmission tower. Um And that is ok for your

00:29:14.009 --> 00:29:17.479
uh training purposes. That's a question to us, sir

00:29:18.299 --> 00:29:21.949
Ok. Um Actually, if I may indulge the commission's

00:29:21.959 --> 00:29:27.000
time for just a quick history lesson. Military training

00:29:27.009 --> 00:29:31.189
routes have existed since the 19 fifties and sixties

00:29:31.229 --> 00:29:37.199
They were created uh as part of the Cold War to um

00:29:38.939 --> 00:29:42.989
to basically go against the Soviet Union and train

00:29:43.000 --> 00:29:46.969
in an ability to go down low and stay low, go below

00:29:46.979 --> 00:29:50.618
enemy radar, strike a target and return home safely

00:29:50.979 --> 00:29:55.309
That was our military doctrine from the 19 fifties

00:29:55.318 --> 00:29:59.269
all the way up to through the 19 eighties. If you remember

00:29:59.279 --> 00:30:02.209
during that time, uh we saw the fall of the Soviet

00:30:02.219 --> 00:30:06.039
Union, we saw the emergence of stealth technology and

00:30:06.049 --> 00:30:10.588
smart bombs. And when that happened, our military doctrine

00:30:10.598 --> 00:30:14.750
did it um uh a complete paradigm shift. We went from

00:30:14.759 --> 00:30:19.779
going low and staying low into uh we need to be as

00:30:19.789 --> 00:30:22.500
high as possible and far away as possible in order

00:30:22.509 --> 00:30:27.049
to survive an engagement with our uh asymmetrical enemy

00:30:27.059 --> 00:30:30.818
at that time. In addition, also, remember this is the

00:30:30.828 --> 00:30:34.640
early 19 nineties and going into the early two thousands

00:30:34.650 --> 00:30:37.430
what was going on in Texas? At that time, you had,

00:30:37.439 --> 00:30:43.029
you saw in a massive suburban strong occur as such

00:30:43.039 --> 00:30:47.400
in construction and other activities were occurring

00:30:47.410 --> 00:30:51.229
underneath our legacy, military training routes because

00:30:51.239 --> 00:30:55.229
of our military doctrine, we actually did not object

00:30:55.239 --> 00:30:58.630
And so we have seen extensive encroachment upon our

00:30:58.640 --> 00:31:04.295
military, but now we have reached a kind of a new age

00:31:04.305 --> 00:31:07.545
and we have done another paradigm shift. We are now

00:31:07.555 --> 00:31:12.733
facing a peer and near peer, adversaries who have technological

00:31:12.743 --> 00:31:16.818
capabilities that are equal to us and staying within

00:31:16.828 --> 00:31:20.180
unclassified realm. I can say that they have in some

00:31:20.189 --> 00:31:24.709
cases surpassed us. In that case, we have to go back

00:31:24.719 --> 00:31:27.459
to survive and to do that, we have to go to physics

00:31:27.469 --> 00:31:31.509
curvature of the earth and the and, and training. And

00:31:31.519 --> 00:31:33.989
so we have to go back down low and stay low in

00:31:34.000 --> 00:31:36.809
order to avoid detection in order to strike our target

00:31:37.049 --> 00:31:42.180
Unfortunately, now we are seeing all of our legacy

00:31:42.189 --> 00:31:45.559
military training routes have encroachment and they

00:31:45.568 --> 00:31:49.009
have things going on and construction going on. So

00:31:49.019 --> 00:31:52.140
that's a very long story. I'm telling you that I apologize

00:31:52.150 --> 00:31:54.489
for the long story. But what I want to say is this

00:31:54.739 --> 00:31:58.969
in addition to this, we also are fully aware of what

00:31:58.979 --> 00:32:03.799
happened in 2020 2021 with the uh Texas Power System

00:32:04.410 --> 00:32:10.108
we fully support um the revitalization and the expansion

00:32:10.118 --> 00:32:14.000
that needs to occur within the uh the uh Texas public

00:32:14.009 --> 00:32:18.529
utilities. So the Texas Air National Guard, when we

00:32:18.539 --> 00:32:21.289
see this encroachment, you know, these powers and these

00:32:21.299 --> 00:32:26.309
these lines, it will impact us, but we do mitigate

00:32:26.318 --> 00:32:31.219
it and we will do our best to uh accept what we

00:32:31.229 --> 00:32:35.068
can in order to allow the continued expansion of the

00:32:35.078 --> 00:32:39.640
U the Texas power system. So again, a very long story

00:32:39.799 --> 00:32:42.949
but the fact is I can't tell you that this won't impact

00:32:42.959 --> 00:32:46.699
us. The fact is this will impact us and the only option

00:32:46.709 --> 00:32:50.243
to not impact this is to not build and that is not

00:32:50.255 --> 00:32:54.664
acceptable to us. So we would prefer to go with the

00:32:54.674 --> 00:32:58.233
X route. We can dedicate the strategies. We will, we

00:32:58.243 --> 00:33:02.223
will accept the impacts as much as possible. Thank

00:33:02.233 --> 00:33:04.483
you very much over. OK, way to go.

00:33:06.539 --> 00:33:10.709
OK. And, and, and for both parties, we, we have to

00:33:10.719 --> 00:33:15.680
take a, a frankly a narrow view, but this, this line

00:33:15.689 --> 00:33:19.598
is gonna be there for a long time. And um we, we

00:33:19.608 --> 00:33:22.689
only have so many opportunities to get this right and

00:33:22.699 --> 00:33:24.729
on the front end, that's when you try to get this as

00:33:24.739 --> 00:33:27.900
right as possible. And I wanna make sure that the Department

00:33:27.910 --> 00:33:32.368
of the Navy and the US National Guard Bureau are um

00:33:33.939 --> 00:33:39.108
are not going to oppose this route uh or object to

00:33:39.118 --> 00:33:43.118
it in future proceedings if at all possible because

00:33:43.130 --> 00:33:45.549
again, this is a reliability project. And so what I'm

00:33:45.559 --> 00:33:48.989
hearing from you both is that is, in fact the case

00:33:51.630 --> 00:33:54.289
Jamie Flander from the National Guard concurs, we will

00:33:54.299 --> 00:33:56.809
not approve, we have no plans to further object to

00:33:56.818 --> 00:33:57.640
this project.

00:33:59.469 --> 00:34:00.799
Great Navy

00:34:04.430 --> 00:34:05.709
lawyers are thinking

00:34:09.500 --> 00:34:12.070
you want a letter Mr Power, are you still on there

00:34:13.588 --> 00:34:13.809
Must

00:34:15.320 --> 00:34:19.300
Oh, yes, I am. Can you hear me? Yes, sir. Ok. Yes

00:34:19.309 --> 00:34:23.668
From, from the Navy pat powers. Um We have no objection

00:34:23.679 --> 00:34:27.610
to the X route. We have evaluated and found it compatible

00:34:27.619 --> 00:34:30.378
with training and operations of the Navy. Ok. That's

00:34:30.389 --> 00:34:33.079
what I needed. I'm good. Ok, you're good. Ok. So I

00:34:33.090 --> 00:34:36.898
was just asking Richer McAdams if you thought a letter

00:34:36.909 --> 00:34:40.260
um filed in the in the docket would be helpful that

00:34:40.269 --> 00:34:42.458
states exactly what the two gentlemen have said on

00:34:42.469 --> 00:34:45.489
the phone. Um even though it won't be evidence because

00:34:46.378 --> 00:34:50.398
it actually might be because my fear is we approved

00:34:50.409 --> 00:34:52.679
this and then all of a sudden us Naval Air Station

00:34:52.688 --> 00:34:55.829
Corpus Christi has a brack proceeding one day and this

00:34:55.840 --> 00:34:58.918
comes up in terms of the viability of the installation

00:34:58.929 --> 00:35:01.530
So from the state of Texas point of view, that's Belton

00:35:01.539 --> 00:35:03.199
suspender security for us.

00:35:07.610 --> 00:35:10.559
So, uh I would ask for a letter from the Department

00:35:10.570 --> 00:35:13.590
of the Navy and the US National Guard Bureau and that

00:35:13.599 --> 00:35:17.610
would help us um moving forward. Is that possible?

00:35:17.619 --> 00:35:18.039
Gentlemen?

00:35:20.389 --> 00:35:22.878
And you want the letter to state, what sir, that, that

00:35:22.889 --> 00:35:26.500
you are unopposed to route X and, and, uh, how it is

00:35:26.510 --> 00:35:31.119
proposed in the, uh, um, in the final order and we

00:35:31.128 --> 00:35:35.539
take no further. And yes, sir, we can, we can provide

00:35:35.550 --> 00:35:38.869
that. Um, what, who, who would you like it sent to

00:35:38.878 --> 00:35:42.019
sir? If we, if we could have that filed in, uh, docket

00:35:42.030 --> 00:35:44.760
54936,

00:35:47.000 --> 00:35:48.668
the State of Texas would be very grateful.

00:35:51.110 --> 00:35:54.050
Yes, sir. Yes, sir. From the Navy and Commissioner

00:35:54.059 --> 00:35:57.000
I'll jump in one other option perhaps to facilitate

00:35:57.010 --> 00:35:59.039
that. If they, if it's easier, they may be able to

00:35:59.050 --> 00:36:01.000
provide the letter to stack and ST could file it on

00:36:01.010 --> 00:36:03.840
their behalf. And, and, and that is absolutely, that

00:36:03.849 --> 00:36:06.449
may be easier if you could provide that to South Texas

00:36:06.458 --> 00:36:08.918
Electric Cooperative, they could file that on your

00:36:08.929 --> 00:36:10.780
behalf. And that way you don't have to go through any

00:36:10.789 --> 00:36:13.739
logistical wranglings of making a filing at the PUC

00:36:13.750 --> 00:36:16.398
Right. Just ask if you could ask stat to work with

00:36:16.409 --> 00:36:18.559
them to get that file, that'll work, staff, work with

00:36:18.570 --> 00:36:19.579
them, make this happen

00:36:21.929 --> 00:36:24.019
uh, before the 28th.

00:36:25.539 --> 00:36:28.010
And you want two letters, I would like a letter from

00:36:28.019 --> 00:36:30.139
the Department of the Navy and US National Guard Bureau

00:36:31.550 --> 00:36:36.168
before, uh, and before and filed before sep the September

00:36:36.179 --> 00:36:37.119
28th open meeting.

00:36:42.659 --> 00:36:42.800
Sure,

00:36:45.519 --> 00:36:46.128
serious.

00:36:49.889 --> 00:36:54.809
Are you still there? Yes, we are. Uh, this uh we, we

00:36:54.820 --> 00:36:58.179
we, we can maybe can, can make that happen. Could you

00:36:58.188 --> 00:37:01.409
just, would you do me a favor and, and call me offline

00:37:01.418 --> 00:37:04.769
and uh, and give you where you want this to go? Absolutely

00:37:04.780 --> 00:37:05.688
I'll follow up with you.

00:37:08.139 --> 00:37:11.398
Ok. Great. I'm good, Lori Jimmy, I'm gonna hand this

00:37:11.409 --> 00:37:14.438
back to you. You're at the transmission people and

00:37:14.449 --> 00:37:17.070
then just to clarify is it, is an all commission staff

00:37:17.079 --> 00:37:21.269
ends the phone call from my perspective. Yes. Yes.

00:37:22.050 --> 00:37:24.458
Thank you, sir. I'll follow up with you after this

00:37:25.250 --> 00:37:28.179
(item:19:Commissioner Cobos comments on proceeding) Commissioner McAdams. Thank you for your extra detail

00:37:28.188 --> 00:37:30.829
and, and work on this. I after reviewing the documents

00:37:30.840 --> 00:37:32.708
filed in, in this case as well, I thought it would

00:37:32.719 --> 00:37:37.409
be appropriate out of due diligence to ensure that

00:37:37.418 --> 00:37:40.300
we had the, you know, us National Guard and Navy on

00:37:40.309 --> 00:37:43.688
board because we don't want this line to ultimately

00:37:43.699 --> 00:37:46.418
get any barriers later down the road. It is a very

00:37:46.429 --> 00:37:49.599
important line. It's one of several lines that's part

00:37:49.610 --> 00:37:52.860
of the broader Rio Grand Valley project that ERCOT

00:37:52.869 --> 00:37:55.188
identified as critical for liability. So we want to

00:37:55.199 --> 00:37:58.500
keep this project overall project on track, but at

00:37:58.510 --> 00:38:00.929
the same time, we got to make sure that everything's

00:38:00.978 --> 00:38:04.369
buttoned up and ready to go and I appreciate your extra

00:38:04.378 --> 00:38:07.188
steps in making sure that we get that documentation

00:38:07.539 --> 00:38:10.809
from the Navy and the National Guard.

00:38:13.309 --> 00:38:15.829
(item:19:Commissioner Glotfelty comments on proceeding) Uh I, I too, I was kind of excited to see this

00:38:15.840 --> 00:38:17.849
uh how this worked out and you did a good job. Uh

00:38:18.789 --> 00:38:23.389
um, uh, talk about an audible that worked it. Uh, it

00:38:23.398 --> 00:38:24.139
was pretty good.

00:38:26.840 --> 00:38:32.409
I'm prepared to support route X. I think that with

00:38:32.418 --> 00:38:34.969
the discussions and the commitments, I think that's

00:38:34.978 --> 00:38:39.489
great. I did, I was prepared to have a discussion about

00:38:39.500 --> 00:38:44.780
the specifics, line segments. The Navy and the International

00:38:44.789 --> 00:38:49.409
Guard were only opposed to 10 of the 26 segments. And

00:38:49.539 --> 00:38:53.409
you know, I think it's, I think we've reached a conclusion

00:38:53.418 --> 00:39:00.409
there. I might add that, that these routes and the

00:39:00.418 --> 00:39:05.110
Navy and the International Guards training was a to

00:39:05.559 --> 00:39:07.360
the two

00:39:09.969 --> 00:39:15.949
to the Dixie Airfield and the Yankee Yankee. I think

00:39:15.958 --> 00:39:20.398
they're called ranges anyway, as I was growing up and

00:39:20.769 --> 00:39:23.789
after college, I used to go hunting at a ranch outside

00:39:23.800 --> 00:39:26.039
of Tilden and we used to stay up till all hours of

00:39:26.050 --> 00:39:29.199
the morning, waiting for the jets to fly by to bomb

00:39:29.260 --> 00:39:32.989
these bombing ranges. So it was always exciting to

00:39:33.000 --> 00:39:35.219
watch. But I'm glad they've come to the table and allowed

00:39:35.228 --> 00:39:39.869
this important route that Commissioner Cobos has spearheaded

00:39:40.329 --> 00:39:44.489
That is truly a reliability problem. It's truly a challenge

00:39:44.769 --> 00:39:48.719
and I'm appreciative that the landowners, these are

00:39:48.728 --> 00:39:53.550
big pieces of property in South Texas. These are, we

00:39:53.559 --> 00:39:55.840
we, we gotta come together and solve Texas's problems

00:39:55.849 --> 00:39:58.909
and I'm glad that they, so I'm I'm supportive of this

00:39:58.918 --> 00:40:03.309
route in this effort as am III I support moving this

00:40:03.320 --> 00:40:07.418
along. Let's get the line built but appreciate the

00:40:07.429 --> 00:40:11.489
time and effort to recover this latest document from

00:40:11.500 --> 00:40:14.378
federal agencies. That way it gives, gives us a little

00:40:14.389 --> 00:40:18.909
more certainty and a little more protection in the

00:40:18.918 --> 00:40:21.599
future depending on the growth patterns of South Texas

00:40:22.289 --> 00:40:25.909
So, so do you want to delay the final approval until

00:40:25.918 --> 00:40:27.769
we get the two letters at the next meeting or do you

00:40:27.780 --> 00:40:33.860
think we can approve this? And uh, ah, I look to Loria

00:40:33.869 --> 00:40:36.208
I'm kind of looking to you, wait for the letters and

00:40:36.219 --> 00:40:39.320
then approve it at the 28 deposit. Ok. I'm fine with

00:40:39.329 --> 00:40:42.639
that. As am I? All right. (item:19:Shelah Cisneros states item will be scheduled for Sept 20 meeting) We'll plan to bring this

00:40:42.648 --> 00:40:46.059
back to the September 20th of a meeting. Ok. Very good

00:40:46.320 --> 00:40:49.909
Excellent. Thank you. I'm doing great work on everyone's

00:40:49.918 --> 00:40:58.139
everyone's part. Ok.  Items 2021 were consented (item:22:Complaint of Shareef Abdullah Against Reliant Energy) next

00:40:58.148 --> 00:41:01.619
up is item number 22 Sheila, will you please lay out

00:41:01.628 --> 00:41:06.519
this item? Yes, ma'am. Item 22 is stuck at number 55150

00:41:06.530 --> 00:41:10.179
The complaint of Sharif Abdullah against reliant energy

00:41:11.090 --> 00:41:12.878
before you use the proposal for a decision that was

00:41:12.889 --> 00:41:15.469
filed August 7. There were no corrections or exceptions

00:41:15.478 --> 00:41:19.599
filed by the parties. (item:22:Chairwoman Jackson explains proposal for decision) The proposal for a decision recommends

00:41:19.610 --> 00:41:22.228
that the complaint against reliance be dismissed for

00:41:22.239 --> 00:41:26.079
failure to state a claim for which relief can be granted

00:41:26.300 --> 00:41:29.090
However, because reliance switched the complaintant

00:41:29.099 --> 00:41:32.188
to his desired plan and waived the early termination

00:41:32.199 --> 00:41:36.059
fee. Dismissal for moness is more appropriate. Therefore

00:41:36.070 --> 00:41:38.208
I recommend that the commission changed the grounds

00:41:38.219 --> 00:41:40.898
for dismissal from failure to state a claim for which

00:41:40.909 --> 00:41:45.039
relief can be granted to t and modified the proposal

00:41:45.050 --> 00:41:48.550
for decisions accordingly. Any thoughts? (item:22:Commissioner McAdams expresses support for motion) That sounds

00:41:48.559 --> 00:41:51.570
like a great motion madam chair, I support it. (item:22:Chairwoman Jackson moves to modify proposal consistent with discussion) I would

00:41:51.579 --> 00:41:54.269
move to modify the proposal for decision consistent

00:41:54.280 --> 00:41:59.250
with our discussion. Um Do I have a 2nd 2nd? All in

00:41:59.260 --> 00:42:05.199
favor. Say I I motion passes (item:23:Application of Southwestern Electric Power Company) next up is item number

00:42:05.208 --> 00:42:08.949
23 Sheila, will you please lay out this item? Yes.

00:42:08.958 --> 00:42:13.610
Item 23 is docket number 55155. This is the Reman docket

00:42:13.619 --> 00:42:18.489
of docket number 40443. This is a reminder. Commissioner

00:42:18.500 --> 00:42:21.449
Cobos has recused herself from this item before you

00:42:21.458 --> 00:42:24.250
is an appeal of order. Number two filed by swept co

00:42:25.039 --> 00:42:29.168
Any thoughts (item:23:Commissioner McAdams describes commission approach) I do? Uh Yes, ma'am. Um

00:42:31.199 --> 00:42:33.989
It, it appears that swe co is under the mistaken belief

00:42:34.000 --> 00:42:36.208
in my opinion that the commission has, the uniform

00:42:36.219 --> 00:42:39.398
has a uniform method for processing dockets that are

00:42:39.409 --> 00:42:41.869
remanded from judicial courts for further processing

00:42:42.849 --> 00:42:46.719
We do not. Um Instead the method for processing is

00:42:46.728 --> 00:42:49.599
determined by an individual, by the individual complexity

00:42:50.418 --> 00:42:53.789
of a docket and a specific remedy ordered by the courts

00:42:54.228 --> 00:42:57.269
In this case. I agree with the commission A LJ that

00:42:57.280 --> 00:43:00.739
the commission held pre hearing conference is unnecessary

00:43:01.110 --> 00:43:04.090
and therefore, I would move to deny appeal of order

00:43:04.099 --> 00:43:04.668
number two

00:43:06.539 --> 00:43:09.250
and Lori can't talk. What do you think, Jim? (item:23:Commissioner Glotfelty shares agreement with McAdams) I'm for

00:43:09.260 --> 00:43:11.978
it. I'm, I'm in agreement with you. (item:23:Chairwoman Jackson supports ALJ decision) I also believe

00:43:12.000 --> 00:43:15.860
the AL OG guy. Right. So we have a motion by Commissioner

00:43:15.869 --> 00:43:18.820
Adams. We have a second by Commissioner Glotfelty.

00:43:18.829 --> 00:43:22.019
All in favor. Say I I motion passes.

00:43:24.519 --> 00:43:27.599
Item number 24 was consented. I don't have anything

00:43:27.610 --> 00:43:32.398
on item 25 and 26. And unless y'all do, I don't have

00:43:32.409 --> 00:43:37.898
anything for item 27. (item:28:CY 2023 Reports of the Electric Reliability Council of Texas) So next up is item number 28

00:43:37.909 --> 00:43:45.019
project number 54444, calendar year, 2023 reports of

00:43:45.030 --> 00:43:48.780
the Electric Reliability Council of Texas. Specifically

00:43:48.789 --> 00:43:51.708
we will be discussing the report that ERCOT filed regarding

00:43:51.909 --> 00:43:56.289
the energy emergency alert condition that affected

00:43:56.300 --> 00:43:59.760
the ERCOT system on September 6, Shelah. Do we have

00:43:59.769 --> 00:44:02.300
anyone from the public signed up to speak on item number

00:44:02.309 --> 00:44:05.059
28? No, ma'am. No one signed up to speak on this item

00:44:05.869 --> 00:44:07.889
I believe Woody with ERCOT is here.

00:44:17.070 --> 00:44:19.599
Ok. Would you please come up and provide an update

00:44:19.610 --> 00:44:22.938
regarding uh the ee a condition as well as a recap

00:44:22.949 --> 00:44:25.219
on the recent conservation appeals?

00:44:28.659 --> 00:44:29.820
(item:28:Woody Rickerson of ERCOT offers update) Woody Rickerson with ERCOT

00:44:34.148 --> 00:44:39.648
so on September 6th, approximately 7:10 p.m. until

00:44:39.659 --> 00:44:43.570
approximately 7:25 p.m. are quite observed at decline

00:44:43.579 --> 00:44:49.369
in system frequency from 60 yards down to 59.77

00:44:51.050 --> 00:44:56.228
in order to access additional reserves to restore and

00:44:56.239 --> 00:45:02.728
maintain frequency, er got declared an EE a 27 25 due

00:45:02.739 --> 00:45:05.840
to the tight reserve margins. That evening, ERCOT had

00:45:05.849 --> 00:45:07.128
already deployed

00:45:08.860 --> 00:45:16.929
Nonspin ecrsrsffr. We've also deployed er S and we

00:45:16.938 --> 00:45:19.429
requested that transmission operators implement their

00:45:19.438 --> 00:45:21.780
distribution voltage reduction measures at that point

00:45:24.168 --> 00:45:27.469
As part of the EE A two declaration ERCOT requested

00:45:27.478 --> 00:45:31.119
the deployment of Load management program capacity

00:45:31.989 --> 00:45:37.168
So E A two allowed us to quickly access loaded resources

00:45:37.179 --> 00:45:41.829
which were deployed through RRS S sponsor reserve to

00:45:41.840 --> 00:45:47.889
stop the frequency decay. It's 7 37 system frequency

00:45:47.898 --> 00:45:52.239
was restored to 60 Hertz. No additional measures were

00:45:52.250 --> 00:45:58.300
required at 8 27 we went from EE A two to E

00:45:58.309 --> 00:46:03.469
A one. Then 8 37 system exited the EE A one and

00:46:03.478 --> 00:46:04.898
went back to normal conditions.

00:46:06.570 --> 00:46:11.418
So that's a summary of the EE A event. Now, we're in

00:46:11.429 --> 00:46:17.849
the process of doing a more forensic analysis of all

00:46:17.860 --> 00:46:20.110
the procedures. All the steps

00:46:21.668 --> 00:46:24.989
investigating the PR C, the physical responsive capability

00:46:25.000 --> 00:46:25.510
number,

00:46:27.099 --> 00:46:30.519
the physical responsive capability number, the PR C

00:46:30.530 --> 00:46:35.039
which drives a lot of, most of our, of our procedures

00:46:35.050 --> 00:46:40.159
showed, I think 2104 megawatts while frequency was

00:46:40.168 --> 00:46:44.110
declining. So we suspect that that Pr C number was

00:46:44.119 --> 00:46:44.820
not accurate

00:46:46.389 --> 00:46:49.280
and we're looking for why they may not have been accurate

00:46:49.800 --> 00:46:51.869
There are several possible reasons, but we'll wait

00:46:51.878 --> 00:46:54.449
and see what that report says. We speculate on what

00:46:54.458 --> 00:46:58.860
caused that. But that's a, that's a summary of what

00:46:58.869 --> 00:47:00.389
happened on September 6th.

00:47:02.090 --> 00:47:03.519
It was a uh

00:47:07.070 --> 00:47:10.250
at the time it was a September peak, a new September

00:47:10.260 --> 00:47:10.728
peak,

00:47:12.378 --> 00:47:14.668
of course, I think we broke it again the next day.

00:47:16.159 --> 00:47:18.469
Um, we had relatively low wind that day.

00:47:20.849 --> 00:47:25.719
We had a con congestion problem that caused us to need

00:47:25.728 --> 00:47:27.168
to curtail some generation.

00:47:29.139 --> 00:47:33.539
And we have this all occurred right in the middle of

00:47:33.550 --> 00:47:37.878
a solar down. So we had about, I think it was 1500

00:47:37.889 --> 00:47:41.458
megawatts of solar left over. So all these things were

00:47:41.469 --> 00:47:44.699
moving at the same time and wind at that point was

00:47:46.070 --> 00:47:50.728
about 5000 megawatts kind of stagnant. It wasn't increasing

00:47:50.739 --> 00:47:52.760
a lot, a lot of the evenings at this point, we'll see

00:47:52.769 --> 00:47:55.418
wind have started ramping up, but at this point, it

00:47:55.429 --> 00:47:56.289
hadn't ramped up.

00:47:57.898 --> 00:48:03.239
So the operations team had a, uh, had kind of a balancing

00:48:03.250 --> 00:48:06.208
they had to do, they had to protect system equipment

00:48:07.289 --> 00:48:11.918
to keep it from being overloaded, which required moving

00:48:11.929 --> 00:48:15.860
generation, decreasing generation. At the same time

00:48:16.579 --> 00:48:21.349
we had solar falling and we needed to, to have generation

00:48:21.679 --> 00:48:25.039
And so there was a balancing act to keep out of Load

00:48:25.050 --> 00:48:28.978
shed, but also protect the system equipment. I think

00:48:28.989 --> 00:48:32.978
the operations team did a really good job. Very unusual

00:48:32.989 --> 00:48:36.539
circumstances. It's not something you see every day

00:48:37.478 --> 00:48:40.309
but they were able to balance the two things and maintain

00:48:40.320 --> 00:48:41.030
reliability.

00:48:44.280 --> 00:48:47.500
(item:28:Chairwoman Jackson asks about skipping EEA Level One) So one of the things that I guess have has been pointed

00:48:47.510 --> 00:48:51.128
out is that, you know, we kind of never went into ee

00:48:51.139 --> 00:48:55.188
a one, we went, we went straight to EE A two and

00:48:55.199 --> 00:48:58.489
um, oftentimes you think of an E A event and you think

00:48:58.500 --> 00:49:01.728
of it more in terms of loader generation and you don't

00:49:01.739 --> 00:49:04.849
always, you know, think about it, it also can be caused

00:49:04.929 --> 00:49:08.530
by frequency. So, I mean, can you talk a little bit

00:49:08.539 --> 00:49:11.269
about, you know, kind of both of those things, you

00:49:11.280 --> 00:49:13.128
know, the need to go straight to EE A two and then

00:49:13.139 --> 00:49:15.878
also the, the, the frequency concern. Yes. So there's

00:49:15.889 --> 00:49:18.860
two. if you think about the ee a process going from

00:49:18.869 --> 00:49:22.139
a watch to E A one, A two A three, there are

00:49:22.148 --> 00:49:25.679
two different two different paths that you can take

00:49:26.570 --> 00:49:30.458
One path is strictly based on reserves as reserves

00:49:30.469 --> 00:49:34.139
decline from one point to another, you go from E A

00:49:34.148 --> 00:49:37.099
1 to 2 to 3 and then eventually into Load shift if

00:49:37.110 --> 00:49:40.188
you, if you have to, but there's also a frequency path

00:49:41.239 --> 00:49:45.699
And so we were watching PR C decline when the frequency

00:49:45.708 --> 00:49:50.010
overrode the knee and the fastest way to get more reserves

00:49:50.019 --> 00:49:52.849
on the system was to go straight into E A two.

00:49:54.599 --> 00:49:57.949
So it wasn't because, I mean, there was some speculation

00:49:57.958 --> 00:50:01.300
that it was because of a thermal unit trip or something

00:50:01.309 --> 00:50:03.708
like that. And that wasn't the case at all. Um Like

00:50:03.719 --> 00:50:07.179
I said, the, the PRC indicated that we shouldn't have

00:50:07.188 --> 00:50:11.159
seen that decline. So we need to investigate and that's

00:50:11.168 --> 00:50:15.449
what this analysis right now is. What were people reporting

00:50:16.619 --> 00:50:20.090
in their PR C numbers? And where is, where, where is

00:50:20.099 --> 00:50:22.659
the, uh, where is that discrepancy? What, what was

00:50:22.668 --> 00:50:24.918
that? And so that is one of the things that's being

00:50:24.929 --> 00:50:28.188
looked at right now and we may have changes in and

00:50:28.199 --> 00:50:30.010
uh, how PR C is reported.

00:50:33.570 --> 00:50:35.590
So, in your investigative process, when you go back

00:50:35.599 --> 00:50:39.378
and you look at PR C, do you look at specific sources

00:50:39.389 --> 00:50:42.610
and if you find something, do you have a process where

00:50:42.619 --> 00:50:46.079
you actually go out and look at the broader group as

00:50:46.090 --> 00:50:48.708
well? Yeah, we'll look at individual units, we'll probably

00:50:48.719 --> 00:50:54.139
have some RFIS. Um Our PR C is dependent on what people

00:50:54.148 --> 00:50:58.050
report to us as our high sustainability limit in part

00:50:58.878 --> 00:51:02.478
Uh It's also dependent on state of charge from batteries

00:51:04.369 --> 00:51:08.269
Uh We also need to investigate how the high dispatch

00:51:08.280 --> 00:51:12.208
limit was affected by units that were curtailed. Uh

00:51:12.469 --> 00:51:17.679
So all those things need to be looked at. Um But with

00:51:17.719 --> 00:51:23.780
that level of PR C, we were watching frequency decrease

00:51:23.789 --> 00:51:26.530
proportionally to what the solar down ramp was basically

00:51:27.579 --> 00:51:29.610
So there was no headroom left.

00:51:31.309 --> 00:51:34.110
And so in order to find some head room, we went into

00:51:34.119 --> 00:51:37.889
E A two, deploy the Load of resources, which if you

00:51:37.898 --> 00:51:41.829
think of generation and Load being balanced that provided

00:51:42.039 --> 00:51:45.119
generation a chance to move back down and provide more

00:51:45.128 --> 00:51:47.458
headroom and some frequency response.

00:51:51.260 --> 00:51:56.099
Go ahead. Yeah. Um (item:28:Commissioner Glotfelty reflects on expected emergency actions) Woody, I appreciate uh I appreciate

00:51:56.110 --> 00:51:58.860
the efforts. I know y'all are supposed to have 24 hours

00:51:58.869 --> 00:52:01.378
and uh we gave you more. Uh I look forward to the

00:52:01.389 --> 00:52:04.789
more forensic analysis. Um I think there's uh uh a

00:52:04.800 --> 00:52:10.418
lot more to look under the here. Um To me, um I

00:52:10.429 --> 00:52:15.728
just uh first of all, I wanna say, um this is in

00:52:15.739 --> 00:52:24.320
no way a operator issue operators primary requirement

00:52:24.329 --> 00:52:28.489
as you know, is to save the transmission system. I

00:52:28.500 --> 00:52:34.969
go back to the 2003 blackout. We back then operators

00:52:34.978 --> 00:52:38.728
were told if you shed Load, you get fired. We don't

00:52:38.739 --> 00:52:41.309
want that. We want them to take the actions that are

00:52:41.320 --> 00:52:46.199
necessary to save the system. The least expeditious

00:52:46.208 --> 00:52:49.449
and least costly way to get that system back into balance

00:52:49.458 --> 00:52:52.438
most expeditious way. I'm sorry, most expeditious way

00:52:52.449 --> 00:52:54.750
to get that system back into balance. Thank you, sir

00:52:55.148 --> 00:52:59.510
Um And so I, I'm appreciative of the operators and

00:52:59.519 --> 00:53:03.250
um uh what they did for the system that day, I think

00:53:03.260 --> 00:53:05.849
there are issues that still need to be looked at. I

00:53:05.860 --> 00:53:08.510
think in your next report, I hope we can have a better

00:53:08.519 --> 00:53:11.208
discussion on the thermal outages in the north of the

00:53:11.219 --> 00:53:15.250
state and around the state as to what that impact was

00:53:15.260 --> 00:53:20.909
And was there a uh were they all forced outages? Um

00:53:20.918 --> 00:53:25.559
Are they um because clearly the lack of generation

00:53:25.570 --> 00:53:29.449
in the north was what drove part of this, this issue

00:53:29.458 --> 00:53:33.070
or at least the contingency, the other area where I

00:53:33.079 --> 00:53:37.250
would love for you all to explore is the line ratings

00:53:37.398 --> 00:53:41.860
in the south that the lines that were curtailed. Pablo

00:53:41.869 --> 00:53:44.590
had told me that those lines were dynamically rated

00:53:45.148 --> 00:53:50.449
and that we allowed 101 130% of their rating effectively

00:53:50.458 --> 00:53:53.489
based upon that dynamic line rating. The question is

00:53:53.500 --> 00:53:57.728
are they rated correctly? And this is a process by

00:53:57.739 --> 00:54:03.099
which the TD us are the ones who under n rules provide

00:54:03.110 --> 00:54:05.739
you all with the ratings of the line. And I just want

00:54:05.750 --> 00:54:08.878
to make sure that you all have the ability and if not

00:54:08.889 --> 00:54:13.110
maybe we need to get the Texas re involved or involved

00:54:13.119 --> 00:54:17.219
to ensure that those ratings are correct all requirements

00:54:17.228 --> 00:54:21.304
under guidelines. So I just hope that when you come

00:54:21.313 --> 00:54:25.503
back, it may not be in two weeks, it may be longer

00:54:25.514 --> 00:54:30.523
than that, that we have those data points that we can

00:54:30.534 --> 00:54:34.164
look at to ensure that these situations don't happen

00:54:34.175 --> 00:54:38.534
Again. I think it's strange when you have an operator

00:54:38.543 --> 00:54:42.289
who puts yourself into ee A too. Um, but, uh, I think

00:54:42.300 --> 00:54:46.099
that was the uniqueness of this day. Um, and obviously

00:54:46.110 --> 00:54:50.139
ee A two was a solution that they thought was best

00:54:50.148 --> 00:54:52.010
And, and I don't think we can question that. I think

00:54:52.019 --> 00:54:55.989
what we can do is question the, the system around there

00:54:56.000 --> 00:54:59.199
to make sure that if we get into this situation again

00:55:00.010 --> 00:55:04.000
we, you all the operators understand what's the best

00:55:04.010 --> 00:55:08.989
action to take. Was this the best action not determining

00:55:09.000 --> 00:55:11.668
whether this was good, bad or ugly, it happened, it

00:55:11.679 --> 00:55:14.898
saved the system fine. Is that the appropriate action

00:55:14.909 --> 00:55:17.679
to take going forward if we see these similar conditions

00:55:17.688 --> 00:55:22.469
and I look forward to working with you on that. I do

00:55:22.478 --> 00:55:25.800
want to say one final thing and that is that

00:55:29.320 --> 00:55:33.949
when we spoke, um, you know, I think there is a big

00:55:33.958 --> 00:55:37.050
discussion that's missing on the thermal outages in

00:55:37.059 --> 00:55:40.250
the north. I was remiss that this letter that was sent

00:55:40.260 --> 00:55:44.208
to us didn't talk about them at all, but from conversations

00:55:44.219 --> 00:55:48.405
that I've had with uh with you all uh at ERCOT, um

00:55:48.704 --> 00:55:51.474
that was one of the reasons why this transmission line

00:55:51.485 --> 00:55:55.083
became overloaded or was in a contingency issue. Um

00:55:55.094 --> 00:55:58.094
And just hashing that out would give me a little bit

00:55:58.103 --> 00:56:00.885
more comfort to understand that. So we'll make sure

00:56:00.894 --> 00:56:05.809
that the analysis includes a look at where the outages

00:56:05.820 --> 00:56:10.619
the uh generation outages were. And so, so you will

00:56:10.628 --> 00:56:14.228
beef up uh an explanation of the, the words limitations

00:56:14.239 --> 00:56:17.909
on other generations. OK. That would be appreciated

00:56:19.840 --> 00:56:22.510
And, and, and then I guess the one other thing is um

00:56:22.519 --> 00:56:25.369
iiii I spoke with Dan yesterday. He doesn't seem to

00:56:25.378 --> 00:56:28.659
think that there were any um n violations. I just would

00:56:28.668 --> 00:56:32.659
love for you all to go through uh the, the guy, the

00:56:32.719 --> 00:56:40.958
uh uh um uh event reporting that you all are required

00:56:40.969 --> 00:56:46.039
to under our guidelines and rules to submit information

00:56:46.050 --> 00:56:50.070
to them. And if there are areas where you think there

00:56:50.079 --> 00:56:55.958
might have been a you were within your guidelines but

00:56:55.969 --> 00:57:00.340
or within your procedures, but they don't seem logical

00:57:00.349 --> 00:57:05.510
to, to uh point point those in the next filing as well

00:57:05.889 --> 00:57:10.398
Yeah, we always look at these type of operation in

00:57:10.438 --> 00:57:15.889
as opportunities places to sharpen our tools and improve

00:57:15.898 --> 00:57:18.780
our procedures. So that will be part of that analysis

00:57:18.789 --> 00:57:21.418
as well. There are some things we can change the procedures

00:57:21.728 --> 00:57:24.059
to make these things

00:57:26.438 --> 00:57:30.458
more road for the operators. Then we'll do that. Um

00:57:30.789 --> 00:57:34.099
We are going through a phase where we, our grid is

00:57:34.110 --> 00:57:36.179
not the grid we had in the past and we're going to

00:57:36.188 --> 00:57:39.070
have new challenges and these new challenges are a

00:57:39.079 --> 00:57:42.688
part of having different kinds of resources that behave

00:57:42.699 --> 00:57:47.688
in different ways. And so our, our procedures and processes

00:57:47.699 --> 00:57:51.429
will need constant tune ups to keep up with the changing

00:57:51.438 --> 00:57:54.878
grid. And so we'll make sure we do that. Can I just

00:57:54.889 --> 00:57:57.219
say one more thing? And this is to address madam chairman

00:57:57.228 --> 00:58:01.648
and the commissioners. And that is to me, my gut tells

00:58:01.659 --> 00:58:04.610
me that part of the challenges was um

00:58:06.119 --> 00:58:09.780
deploying Ancillary services in a order that was not

00:58:09.789 --> 00:58:15.929
normal for operations or in a, in a reactionary way

00:58:15.938 --> 00:58:18.978
to deploy different buckets of Ancillary services.

00:58:19.219 --> 00:58:24.320
To me, this goes back to Senate Bill three from two

00:58:24.329 --> 00:58:27.668
sessions ago that we should be conducting an Ancillary

00:58:27.679 --> 00:58:30.969
service study section 14. Um And we really need to

00:58:30.978 --> 00:58:33.340
do that. Um And I look forward to working with you

00:58:33.349 --> 00:58:36.228
all to figure out how we could get that done to provide

00:58:36.239 --> 00:58:38.878
the market with some assurance and understanding of

00:58:38.889 --> 00:58:42.059
how these products are being deployed on a real time

00:58:42.070 --> 00:58:45.599
basis. Thank you. Uh (item:28:Commissioner McAdams reflects on details of recent grid event) So, so I'd like to point out one

00:58:45.610 --> 00:58:49.918
thing. Um I'm not, I'm not trying to oversimplify the

00:58:49.929 --> 00:58:53.070
situation that I think we all are facing. Woody's team

00:58:53.119 --> 00:58:57.438
at ERCOT and, and the commission is that there are

00:58:57.449 --> 00:59:01.289
only two grids on the planet that are ahead of us in

00:59:01.300 --> 00:59:07.119
terms of uh managing a more diverse resource mix. Um

00:59:07.128 --> 00:59:09.760
And that means a higher penetration of uh renewable

00:59:09.769 --> 00:59:12.619
or variable intermittent resources. And that's California

00:59:12.628 --> 00:59:16.000
Iso in Australia, both systems have a higher degree

00:59:16.010 --> 00:59:18.719
of command and control over their system. We depend

00:59:18.728 --> 00:59:22.750
on market forces uh to drive a lot of activity and

00:59:22.760 --> 00:59:27.909
behavior on our grid. I think what you'd acknowledge

00:59:27.918 --> 00:59:33.708
that. Um OK. Um And as a result, it's more challenging

00:59:33.719 --> 00:59:37.309
for the operator to know what to expect from second

00:59:37.320 --> 00:59:41.030
to second moment to moment. And I, I think we, we saw

00:59:41.039 --> 00:59:44.449
a little bit of that on uh on the day in question

00:59:45.050 --> 00:59:49.188
Um Woody, if I could, I'd like to go through um You

00:59:49.199 --> 00:59:52.059
mentioned energy flow out of South Texas uh out of

00:59:52.070 --> 00:59:54.918
the South increased the loading on a significant 3

00:59:54.929 --> 00:59:59.409
45 KV transmission line beyond the line's post contingency

00:59:59.418 --> 01:00:02.969
limit. Now I sort of at the Resource Aqua summit I

01:00:02.978 --> 01:00:05.800
attended last week that Dan was at um I assured the

01:00:05.809 --> 01:00:10.389
press and a F commissioner and the NR CEO that we would

01:00:10.398 --> 01:00:14.800
have a debrief this week to kind of uh have an initial

01:00:14.809 --> 01:00:19.478
uh breakout of what happened. That's a, that's a significant

01:00:19.489 --> 01:00:22.800
sentence right there on what was happening real time

01:00:23.769 --> 01:00:30.250
on the Wednesday afternoon or evening. So this 3 45

01:00:30.260 --> 01:00:34.860
KB, is it a double circuit line? So this is a contingency

01:00:34.869 --> 01:00:37.898
overload, correct? But is that line? In fact a double

01:00:37.909 --> 01:00:42.579
circuit, the contingency was the overloaded line would

01:00:42.590 --> 01:00:45.699
be a single circuit. Yeah. So my question is under

01:00:45.708 --> 01:00:48.688
N standards doesn't. Um And, and this is where I'm

01:00:48.699 --> 01:00:51.489
trying to, I'm not an engineer trying to figure out

01:00:51.739 --> 01:00:54.688
what exactly the standard is for that line. I know

01:00:54.699 --> 01:00:57.769
that you are accounting for the single uh single circuit

01:00:57.780 --> 01:01:01.148
contingency that has been reported to you for your

01:01:01.159 --> 01:01:03.610
modeling purposes by the transmission and distribution

01:01:03.619 --> 01:01:08.510
system operator, correct? But if it's a double circuit

01:01:08.668 --> 01:01:13.139
system under uh under NT guidelines, there's two con

01:01:13.250 --> 01:01:16.668
they, they can have two contingency factors, correct

01:01:17.050 --> 01:01:20.840
OK. So I just wanna make sure that that technical capability

01:01:20.989 --> 01:01:24.208
is accounted for and that we don't, we don't see an

01:01:24.219 --> 01:01:26.510
overload when in fact, it's not going to happen.

01:01:29.708 --> 01:01:32.260
I'm gonna have to ask you to restate that I don't quite

01:01:32.269 --> 01:01:36.349
follow you. Well, um again, your actions, your operator

01:01:36.360 --> 01:01:40.079
actions were based on that contingency level. Correct

01:01:40.228 --> 01:01:43.389
All right. So that's a, an energy threshold that they

01:01:43.398 --> 01:01:46.699
believe will be reached and overwhelmed and therefore

01:01:46.708 --> 01:01:50.489
emergency action is necessary based on that emergency

01:01:50.500 --> 01:01:54.789
threshold. Ok. And what I'm saying is, was there more

01:01:54.800 --> 01:01:57.099
uh capability that could have been, was there more

01:01:57.110 --> 01:01:59.360
capability on that line than you were? In fact, accounting

01:01:59.369 --> 01:02:03.619
for because of the reporting of the TT sp to you on

01:02:03.628 --> 01:02:06.938
the rated capabilities of that piece of equipment.

01:02:07.110 --> 01:02:11.769
So there are many factors that go into the rating of

01:02:11.780 --> 01:02:15.559
a line. Um, there are clearance factors, there's the

01:02:15.570 --> 01:02:18.360
age of the line, the type of conductor, the material

01:02:18.369 --> 01:02:22.429
in the conductor, the just there are multiple things

01:02:22.438 --> 01:02:26.800
And so we have to rely on what the TESP tells us

01:02:28.329 --> 01:02:33.228
Each TSP has their own rating methodology that they

01:02:33.239 --> 01:02:37.889
use to protect their equipment. So if we get a rating

01:02:37.898 --> 01:02:42.168
from company X or we get a set of ratings from company

01:02:42.179 --> 01:02:46.789
X, we have a set of our systems hold four ratings actually

01:02:46.800 --> 01:02:50.309
And we get a, those set of ratings from company company

01:02:50.320 --> 01:02:54.159
X for their line. Those are the ratings that we use

01:02:54.168 --> 01:02:57.239
for our analysis. Now, one of the first things that

01:02:57.250 --> 01:03:01.059
we do when we see congestion is we go back to the

01:03:01.070 --> 01:03:04.699
TSP and we ask for confirmation on the ratings and

01:03:04.708 --> 01:03:07.168
ask if there's any way that those ratings could be

01:03:07.179 --> 01:03:07.869
raised

01:03:09.478 --> 01:03:14.579
in some circumstances. The, the conductor itself may

01:03:14.590 --> 01:03:19.438
not be the limiting element. It may be a wave trap

01:03:19.449 --> 01:03:21.789
or something like that. A smaller piece of equipment

01:03:21.800 --> 01:03:24.559
that can be replaced that raises the rating of the

01:03:24.570 --> 01:03:28.668
entire line. So we have a process that when we see

01:03:28.679 --> 01:03:31.159
congestion on the line, then we go back to the TSB

01:03:31.168 --> 01:03:34.429
and explore if there are solutions that can raise the

01:03:34.438 --> 01:03:36.769
rating of the line. So that's been done with these

01:03:36.780 --> 01:03:40.030
lines that has been, that has been done. OK. But we

01:03:40.039 --> 01:03:46.260
don't question the methodology that's being used. That's

01:03:46.769 --> 01:03:50.969
we've got 25 different T SPS out there waiting lines

01:03:50.978 --> 01:03:53.739
And so because this particular juncture is a repeat

01:03:53.750 --> 01:03:56.239
offender on the congestion map, right? I mean, it's

01:03:57.269 --> 01:04:02.599
been showing up now for several months. OK. How will

01:04:02.610 --> 01:04:05.889
the the addition of the new Rio Grande Valley lines

01:04:06.309 --> 01:04:09.019
um impact this kind of situation? Is it going to improve

01:04:09.030 --> 01:04:11.099
or is it gonna be? Well, it's,

01:04:12.610 --> 01:04:16.239
it's on the south side of the congestion. So it's not

01:04:16.250 --> 01:04:20.188
gonna have the Rio Valley lines won't necessarily help

01:04:20.199 --> 01:04:24.918
us. I don't think the new San Antonio uh line that

01:04:24.929 --> 01:04:27.769
was just, just approved by the board. I think you guys

01:04:27.780 --> 01:04:31.659
are about to look at that will and there are also some

01:04:31.668 --> 01:04:35.340
configuration changes that, that we're exploring with

01:04:35.349 --> 01:04:38.389
some of the T SPS that can be put in place during

01:04:38.398 --> 01:04:41.679
times of high loading. It's not something you would

01:04:41.688 --> 01:04:44.139
want to keep on the line at all, all the time but

01:04:44.148 --> 01:04:47.050
there are some configuration changes that you can use

01:04:47.438 --> 01:04:49.840
that will also help decrease some of that. So there

01:04:49.849 --> 01:04:52.679
is, there are some things that, that will help. The

01:04:52.688 --> 01:04:56.809
biggest thing that would help generation north of San

01:04:56.820 --> 01:04:57.250
Antonio.

01:04:59.389 --> 01:05:03.909
I know that's the, that's the remedy that would, that

01:05:03.918 --> 01:05:05.789
would make this go away pretty quickly is if we had

01:05:05.800 --> 01:05:10.500
more generation uh north of San Antonio, north of the

01:05:10.510 --> 01:05:13.489
north of the congestion. So let, let's talk about a

01:05:13.500 --> 01:05:16.570
generation south of San Antonio though. Um So we couldn't

01:05:16.579 --> 01:05:20.539
get it north and they were sort of battling um phenomena

01:05:20.550 --> 01:05:22.360
being experienced on the system. At the same time,

01:05:22.369 --> 01:05:25.239
a surplus of power backing up in the South uh and a

01:05:25.250 --> 01:05:27.360
deficit of power being experienced in the north. A

01:05:27.369 --> 01:05:32.349
declining uh amount of uh generation. Um You say that

01:05:32.360 --> 01:05:35.148
uh ERCOT was forced to direct manual curtailment of

01:05:35.159 --> 01:05:38.530
1590 megawatts of generation from the South region

01:05:38.539 --> 01:05:43.728
due to this contingency um in terms of management best

01:05:43.739 --> 01:05:48.469
practices, uh an overarching question has been raised

01:05:48.478 --> 01:05:51.820
uh in industry circles of did this exacerbate the frequency

01:05:51.829 --> 01:05:55.648
problem uh that we were experiencing at that time by

01:05:55.659 --> 01:05:59.000
reducing so much so quickly uh over such a short amount

01:05:59.010 --> 01:06:03.260
of time. What was your experience? Yes, it did exacerbate

01:06:03.269 --> 01:06:08.199
the problem, but it was a balancing act. Yeah, protecting

01:06:08.208 --> 01:06:12.418
the system equipment versus maintaining frequency and

01:06:12.429 --> 01:06:16.519
balancing generation and Load. So the operations group

01:06:16.530 --> 01:06:19.228
was, was forced to balance both things in a very short

01:06:19.239 --> 01:06:23.708
matter of time. And uh the outcome was good in this

01:06:23.719 --> 01:06:29.978
case, the uh if you think of the uh San Antonio, the

01:06:29.989 --> 01:06:33.398
I 35 quarter north of San Antonio as a, as a loads

01:06:33.409 --> 01:06:37.398
sink an area that requires a lot of generation flowing

01:06:37.409 --> 01:06:41.260
into it. A lot of power flowing into it during the

01:06:41.269 --> 01:06:46.059
day, you've got 12, 13,000 megawatts of solar, well

01:06:46.070 --> 01:06:48.148
maybe not that much coming out of the west. You've

01:06:48.159 --> 01:06:50.929
got a good portion of solar flowing into that as that

01:06:50.938 --> 01:06:52.829
solar ramps down

01:06:56.148 --> 01:06:59.510
that power still and especially on September 6th where

01:06:59.519 --> 01:07:02.458
that power struck around late into the afternoon and

01:07:02.469 --> 01:07:05.159
the evening because it was kind of humid and hot and

01:07:05.168 --> 01:07:07.208
the sun is going down a little bit earlier than it

01:07:07.219 --> 01:07:11.320
did back in June and July. So that ramp occurs a little

01:07:11.329 --> 01:07:13.519
earlier. So the loads a little bit higher,

01:07:15.329 --> 01:07:18.199
that Load has to be served and it starts pulling power

01:07:18.208 --> 01:07:20.219
from other places. They can't get it from the west

01:07:20.228 --> 01:07:22.570
anymore because the solar has gone down and the wind

01:07:22.579 --> 01:07:24.179
wasn't responding on that day.

01:07:26.099 --> 01:07:29.829
And so, uh the west wind wasn't responding, I should

01:07:29.840 --> 01:07:34.219
say. And so it starts pulling it from the south and

01:07:34.228 --> 01:07:37.369
that's the unusual set of circumstances. It's late

01:07:37.378 --> 01:07:42.699
in the summer. It's exceptionally hot. The ratio of

01:07:42.708 --> 01:07:47.320
west wind to south wind was very low. We're at the

01:07:47.329 --> 01:07:51.360
bottom of the solar realm. We had some outages in the

01:07:51.369 --> 01:07:56.199
north. So all those things together created this circumstance

01:07:56.208 --> 01:07:58.269
that the operators had to respond to.

01:08:00.590 --> 01:08:02.510
(item:28:Commissioner Glotfelty asks for details about grid event) Can I ask you one other question real quick? And that

01:08:02.519 --> 01:08:05.958
is, so we talk about adding more generation in the

01:08:05.969 --> 01:08:10.289
North. If there was a larger demand response program

01:08:10.300 --> 01:08:12.668
in the North, would that have solved the same issue

01:08:12.679 --> 01:08:16.039
or could have been a part of the solution north of

01:08:16.048 --> 01:08:17.500
San Antonio or north of the?

01:08:21.779 --> 01:08:24.378
(item:28:Commissioner Cobos asks about frequency issue) So what do you just to try to understand on the frequency

01:08:24.390 --> 01:08:27.009
issue? You're you're saying your in your forensic analysis

01:08:27.020 --> 01:08:30.168
you're gonna go back and try to really try to examine

01:08:30.180 --> 01:08:32.789
the PR C level and the drop in frequency and what what

01:08:32.798 --> 01:08:36.079
drove the sudden drop in frequency in the in the next

01:08:36.088 --> 01:08:39.529
report? Um And then secondly, I think it might be helpful

01:08:39.539 --> 01:08:43.009
based on this discussion to talk about, you know, to

01:08:43.020 --> 01:08:45.649
address, you know, what the transmission constraint

01:08:45.659 --> 01:08:49.338
issue, the north, the south and, and the um I think

01:08:49.350 --> 01:08:52.600
maybe not just the dynamic line rating issue, but maybe

01:08:52.609 --> 01:08:55.350
it's a system operating limit methodology issue just

01:08:55.359 --> 01:08:58.649
to kind of think about. Well as the state continues

01:08:58.659 --> 01:09:01.640
to grow, especially in the South Zone with more population

01:09:01.649 --> 01:09:04.520
more transmission being built is the methodology that

01:09:04.529 --> 01:09:07.350
ERCOT is using today, the appropriate methodology in

01:09:07.359 --> 01:09:07.979
the future.

01:09:09.668 --> 01:09:12.729
So I was uh I was thinking about

01:09:14.878 --> 01:09:18.729
what it would have taken to have that San Antonio line

01:09:18.739 --> 01:09:19.750
in place now.

01:09:21.500 --> 01:09:24.708
So it would take us all the way back to the 2017

01:09:24.720 --> 01:09:26.109
regional transmission plans.

01:09:27.828 --> 01:09:32.810
Ok. So we have to go back that far if in the

01:09:32.819 --> 01:09:36.250
20 think about the circumstances in 2017, our peak

01:09:36.259 --> 01:09:40.399
Load in 2017 was less than 70,000. We're at 85,000

01:09:42.079 --> 01:09:49.060
we had um roughly half the wind in 2017 that we have

01:09:49.069 --> 01:09:56.659
now nameplate. So you got another 15 to 17,000 megawatts

01:09:56.668 --> 01:09:59.270
of wind that has to be located somewhere to get from

01:09:59.279 --> 01:10:01.798
2017 to today. And where that gets located is really

01:10:01.810 --> 01:10:05.729
important. The amount of solar on the system in 2017

01:10:06.128 --> 01:10:10.779
is about 1000 megawatts. So there's another 12 or 13,000

01:10:10.789 --> 01:10:13.449
megawatts of solar that has to be located somewhere

01:10:13.779 --> 01:10:21.779
in a planning study looking at 2023. So if we had done

01:10:21.789 --> 01:10:26.029
a study in 2023 and we had accurately placed 15,000

01:10:26.039 --> 01:10:29.789
megawatts of wind and 15,000 or 14,000 megawatts of

01:10:29.798 --> 01:10:33.128
solar. Our Load forecast

01:10:34.720 --> 01:10:37.319
for 2023 was 80,000.

01:10:38.989 --> 01:10:42.680
So we missed the Load forecast by 5000. So there's

01:10:42.689 --> 01:10:46.000
a Load forecasting issue. We would have had to have

01:10:46.009 --> 01:10:49.208
a scenario where we bumped the Load forecast up even

01:10:49.220 --> 01:10:53.539
more. But more importantly, we would have had to anticipate

01:10:54.810 --> 01:10:58.600
that those central Texas counties are where most of

01:10:58.609 --> 01:11:01.640
that loads gonna be or a lot of it.

01:11:03.250 --> 01:11:06.649
And so if you could, if you had made all those assumptions

01:11:06.659 --> 01:11:09.149
located, all that new generation in the right places

01:11:09.680 --> 01:11:12.039
bump the Load forecast up and accurately place the

01:11:12.048 --> 01:11:13.378
Load where it needed to go.

01:11:16.149 --> 01:11:20.418
We might have recognized this line in 2017 in the RT

01:11:20.430 --> 01:11:23.869
P as it is, it wasn't recognized. This need wasn't

01:11:23.878 --> 01:11:31.390
recognized until the 2021 RT P. Another factor is that

01:11:31.399 --> 01:11:38.409
in 2017, we didn't have a congestion cost test, which

01:11:38.418 --> 01:11:43.989
we have. now, we didn't have a resiliency test, which

01:11:44.000 --> 01:11:46.350
we have now we didn't have any consideration at all

01:11:46.359 --> 01:11:48.699
for some kind of multi value approach for, for building

01:11:48.708 --> 01:11:51.439
new transmission. So there were a lot of factors back

01:11:51.449 --> 01:11:55.979
in 2017 and 2018 that it was, it was really a different

01:11:55.989 --> 01:12:00.338
paradigm than for building building transmission. Several

01:12:01.319 --> 01:12:05.168
I it was different for everything. It was very different

01:12:05.180 --> 01:12:06.909
then. And so there were a lot of things that would

01:12:06.918 --> 01:12:09.680
have had to fall in place back in that time frame in

01:12:09.689 --> 01:12:15.289
order to bring an endorsement to the PUC. Have you

01:12:15.298 --> 01:12:17.838
approve it and then be able to actually build this

01:12:17.850 --> 01:12:20.100
line and have it in place for this summer.

01:12:23.989 --> 01:12:29.539
(item:28:Commissioner Glotfelty asks about FACs devices or other solutions) Are there things in your analysis going forward that

01:12:29.548 --> 01:12:32.378
you could look at like fax devices or other things

01:12:32.390 --> 01:12:39.060
that could reroute electrons upon onto different lines

01:12:39.069 --> 01:12:40.020
that might help

01:12:41.640 --> 01:12:44.989
solve this? If this becomes an issue between now and

01:12:45.000 --> 01:12:47.390
the time the Santonio line gets built, I would just

01:12:47.399 --> 01:12:50.588
ask if, if you all could put some thought around that

01:12:50.600 --> 01:12:53.699
Um That might be something that we would consider ordering

01:12:53.708 --> 01:13:00.208
if we could in order to create a more stable system

01:13:00.220 --> 01:13:04.958
if those instances, what can we bolt on? Well, we're

01:13:04.970 --> 01:13:08.789
working with the P SPS in the area to, to find some

01:13:08.798 --> 01:13:12.720
mitigating solutions to get us by until and, and that

01:13:12.729 --> 01:13:14.890
may very well be one of the things we come up with

01:13:15.069 --> 01:13:17.689
OK. Thank you. (item:28:Commissioner Cobos asks what can be done before new line is built) So, so mitigating solutions, I think

01:13:17.699 --> 01:13:19.989
what, what you guys are trying to say is what can we

01:13:20.000 --> 01:13:24.689
do now until the CPS energy transition project is built

01:13:25.088 --> 01:13:28.119
So that if we hit another situation where we have,

01:13:28.128 --> 01:13:31.189
you know, the north to north to south zone or some

01:13:31.199 --> 01:13:34.649
kind of, you know, operational issue that you guys

01:13:34.659 --> 01:13:38.770
are not put in a position to back down more power than

01:13:38.779 --> 01:13:42.259
you need to and, and that you're looking at not just

01:13:42.329 --> 01:13:46.439
you know, more transmission but um operational tactics

01:13:46.449 --> 01:13:49.458
like system operating limits, dynamic line reads, things

01:13:49.470 --> 01:13:54.180
to uh make sure that we're not, you know, overly backing

01:13:54.189 --> 01:13:57.548
down the power in the south, recognizing that you need

01:13:57.560 --> 01:13:59.588
to have transmission reliability and not burn out the

01:13:59.600 --> 01:14:03.239
lines? Right. But are there ways to sort of look at

01:14:03.399 --> 01:14:08.989
those operational tactics now with this new um this

01:14:09.000 --> 01:14:10.958
new environment that we're in with a higher growth

01:14:10.970 --> 01:14:15.409
and you know, more solar and wind, it's proactive analysis

01:14:16.060 --> 01:14:18.208
you know, I mean, we we'll explore whatever is out

01:14:18.220 --> 01:14:18.520
there?

01:14:20.539 --> 01:14:23.970
(item:28:Chairwoman Jackson asks if ERCOT is getting the info it needs) So is it fair to say that um you know, the incident

01:14:23.979 --> 01:14:27.310
is gonna kind of point you to some areas where you

01:14:27.319 --> 01:14:31.189
want to kind of question if ERCOT is getting the information

01:14:31.199 --> 01:14:34.279
that it truly needs the accurate information, it truly

01:14:34.289 --> 01:14:40.319
needs. Well, I think that the grid transformation that

01:14:40.329 --> 01:14:44.009
we're going through right now is starting to uncover

01:14:44.020 --> 01:14:47.168
some of the deficits and some of the things we receive

01:14:48.359 --> 01:14:51.708
And so as we go through situations like on September

01:14:51.720 --> 01:14:54.298
6th, we're going to find places where we're gonna need

01:14:54.310 --> 01:14:56.838
a little extra something here or some more reporting

01:14:56.850 --> 01:14:59.520
on this area or something like that. And so as we go

01:14:59.529 --> 01:15:02.949
uncover those things, we'll ask for them and it may

01:15:02.958 --> 01:15:06.239
come through as protocol changes, it may come through

01:15:06.250 --> 01:15:09.939
as a change in the definition of the PR C. But we

01:15:09.949 --> 01:15:13.479
will, we will continue to correct and adjust and tune

01:15:14.060 --> 01:15:17.588
processes and systems as, as the grid continues to

01:15:17.600 --> 01:15:19.680
change, and we'll try to anticipate these things as

01:15:19.689 --> 01:15:21.720
well, not just react to them but try to anticipate

01:15:21.729 --> 01:15:25.509
them where we can. So you not only look at just this

01:15:25.520 --> 01:15:28.949
particular incident, but also the broader system to

01:15:28.958 --> 01:15:31.208
see if some of these things would be applicable or

01:15:31.220 --> 01:15:34.199
if you needed to go back and actually dig deeper in

01:15:34.208 --> 01:15:36.708
some of the other areas in terms of information that

01:15:36.720 --> 01:15:40.180
you need. And in this forensic analysis, will you be

01:15:40.189 --> 01:15:42.909
further exploring how the battery is performed.

01:15:45.048 --> 01:15:50.390
Thank you. (item:28:Commissioner Glotfelty asks hypothetical about wind, DC line) In your view. If we the, the

01:15:50.399 --> 01:15:56.088
the RPG um is, has been looking at a DC line from

01:15:56.399 --> 01:16:00.680
West Texas to kind of in the San Antonio area. Um If

01:16:00.689 --> 01:16:03.329
we had had that, would that have helped or exacerbated

01:16:03.338 --> 01:16:05.829
if the wind was robust? I, I don't know what the wind

01:16:05.838 --> 01:16:09.100
condition was out there. We had plenty of wind than

01:16:09.109 --> 01:16:12.470
in the west. If the ratio of west wind to south wind

01:16:12.479 --> 01:16:16.390
had been higher, our existing system would have, would

01:16:16.399 --> 01:16:18.628
have made everything work. We wouldn't need the DC

01:16:18.770 --> 01:16:20.199
line. Got it. Ok.

01:16:22.338 --> 01:16:24.979
Yeah, like I said, it was a combination of several

01:16:24.989 --> 01:16:29.750
things and, you know, we've had several tight evenings

01:16:29.759 --> 01:16:32.739
this summer and in most of those evenings we've had

01:16:32.750 --> 01:16:37.869
things move in the right way in a positive way, had

01:16:37.878 --> 01:16:41.369
rain in Houston one night and a lot more wind than

01:16:41.378 --> 01:16:44.310
expected on one night, you know, things like that on

01:16:44.319 --> 01:16:47.399
this particular night. It didn't move that way and

01:16:47.409 --> 01:16:50.009
the, uh, the variables moved against us instead of

01:16:50.020 --> 01:16:50.569
for us.

01:16:54.189 --> 01:16:56.279
So, you know, you wanna know where I was when I got

01:16:56.289 --> 01:16:57.479
the call on the EE A two,

01:16:59.430 --> 01:17:02.958
I was at dinner with the first Commissioner, Mark Christie

01:17:03.319 --> 01:17:07.029
and NERC CEO Jim Rob. He was sitting right next to me

01:17:07.039 --> 01:17:08.798
and I got to tell him we're in the EA2

01:17:12.449 --> 01:17:16.319
Uh, so I know you've kind of reported on EE A too

01:17:16.329 --> 01:17:18.369
I don't know if we had any more discussion on that

01:17:18.378 --> 01:17:23.850
but (item:28:Connie Corona notes enforcement relevance of PRC, telemetry) commissioners, if, if I may, uh ju just to complete

01:17:23.859 --> 01:17:27.649
um, some thoughts that, that you might have over the

01:17:27.659 --> 01:17:30.930
next couple of weeks while you think about this situation

01:17:30.939 --> 01:17:35.159
and our next steps going forward. Um, this, this PR

01:17:35.168 --> 01:17:42.989
C issue, um, is among the reasons that our enforcement

01:17:43.000 --> 01:17:46.588
division has been focusing quite a bit on telemetry

01:17:46.810 --> 01:17:49.500
um, over the last several months. And if, if you look

01:17:49.509 --> 01:17:53.088
back at your, at your case docket, you will see that

01:17:53.100 --> 01:17:56.220
there are a number of cases where they have pursued

01:17:56.229 --> 01:18:00.100
telemetry issues and, and that is just one of the pieces

01:18:00.109 --> 01:18:04.779
to the puzzle here as we review Pr C and whether it

01:18:04.789 --> 01:18:08.279
was in fact providing the ACOTT operators the information

01:18:08.289 --> 01:18:08.918
they needed

01:18:11.899 --> 01:18:16.470
point well taken. Um, (item:28:Chairwoman, other commissioners ask about conservation appeals) I know we discussed the, uh ee

01:18:16.479 --> 01:18:19.970
A two, but we've also had, you know, a number of recent

01:18:19.979 --> 01:18:24.399
conservation appeals and we, we did get pretty, pretty

01:18:24.409 --> 01:18:26.720
good response on those and I wondered if you could

01:18:26.729 --> 01:18:29.399
just take a few minutes and just give us a recap of

01:18:29.409 --> 01:18:32.838
that as well. Yeah, so we are very pleased with the

01:18:32.850 --> 01:18:37.939
response there. Um If you look at the Load shapes enough

01:18:37.949 --> 01:18:40.779
and you watch them enough, you'll begin to see days

01:18:40.789 --> 01:18:46.529
when you can see the conservation, um, kick in instead

01:18:46.539 --> 01:18:51.409
of having um, a peak and you'll have a plateau or makes

01:18:51.418 --> 01:18:54.890
it look loads shape and So on days when we've asked

01:18:54.899 --> 01:18:59.310
for that Texas has, has responded well, and I think

01:18:59.319 --> 01:19:00.378
it has made a difference.

01:19:01.949 --> 01:19:04.100
I just wanted to make sure that we recognize that and

01:19:04.109 --> 01:19:07.128
we recognized everybody's efforts because it, you know

01:19:07.418 --> 01:19:12.569
unusually hard times with the, with the summer temperatures

01:19:12.579 --> 01:19:15.539
and the challenges that we've had that Texas have really

01:19:15.548 --> 01:19:18.770
stepped up on their, on, on conservation and it has

01:19:18.779 --> 01:19:21.579
really helped out on average. How much do you see in

01:19:23.489 --> 01:19:27.310
Well, it's a so on some of these days when you've had

01:19:27.319 --> 01:19:34.640
a voltage reduction and RCP and conservation appeal

01:19:34.918 --> 01:19:38.100
we don't have the resolution to divvy those out and

01:19:38.109 --> 01:19:41.680
see which ones are, which, so we see an aggregate response

01:19:41.909 --> 01:19:41.989
Ok.

01:19:47.310 --> 01:19:49.449
Is, is this gonna be the future? What do, what do you

01:19:49.458 --> 01:19:55.100
think? Is this, uh, something you see these solar ramp

01:19:55.109 --> 01:19:59.069
down type evenings? Yeah, seasonally adjusted, you

01:19:59.079 --> 01:20:02.128
know, a little bit different as we, what about winter

01:20:02.310 --> 01:20:05.409
I mean, when we start to see that, that winter, the

01:20:05.418 --> 01:20:10.918
magnitude of the ramp won't be as, um, it won't be

01:20:10.930 --> 01:20:13.810
as impactful. I think the tightest hours in the winter

01:20:13.819 --> 01:20:18.338
will be before the sun comes up. Right. So people will

01:20:18.350 --> 01:20:21.289
wake up, turn their heaters on, businesses will start

01:20:21.298 --> 01:20:26.789
up, right. We'll see a peak and then we'll see solar

01:20:26.798 --> 01:20:30.989
ramp up. So solar will be ramping up to get us out

01:20:31.000 --> 01:20:35.789
of tight conditions in the winter as opposed to ramping

01:20:35.798 --> 01:20:40.979
down in the summer. Right. And there is a, also an

01:20:40.989 --> 01:20:43.979
evening peak in the winter as well. It's not just in

01:20:43.989 --> 01:20:46.310
the morning, but typically the morning is the, is the

01:20:46.319 --> 01:20:47.798
tighter higher peak.

01:20:49.390 --> 01:20:52.759
I think communication to the public on, on this new

01:20:52.770 --> 01:20:55.548
sort of environment we're in, on, on where we're experiencing

01:20:55.560 --> 01:20:57.640
tight conditions when it's dark. Whether it's in the

01:20:57.649 --> 01:21:00.699
morning in the winter or at night is, is important

01:21:00.708 --> 01:21:03.569
because I think there's a lot of confusion out there

01:21:03.579 --> 01:21:07.079
still as to why we're conservation call at night, people

01:21:07.088 --> 01:21:09.199
are at dinner and they're getting conservation alerts

01:21:09.539 --> 01:21:13.689
Um And then now in the winter, you know, we'll potentially

01:21:13.699 --> 01:21:15.918
be experiencing these types of circumstances. So the

01:21:15.930 --> 01:21:18.250
more information communication we get out there so

01:21:18.259 --> 01:21:22.819
that the public understands why is asking for conservation

01:21:22.829 --> 01:21:27.439
when it's dark outside is a, a really, I think a good

01:21:27.449 --> 01:21:33.009
um, a good, you know, thing to do because I know that

01:21:33.020 --> 01:21:34.739
when we were in E A two, there was a lot of

01:21:34.750 --> 01:21:38.229
questions I got too as to why I had to, you know

01:21:39.060 --> 01:21:41.640
go outside and get on the phone at night about emergency

01:21:41.649 --> 01:21:43.458
conditions. And it's, it's just, you know, I think

01:21:43.470 --> 01:21:45.798
the general public I think would benefit greatly from

01:21:45.810 --> 01:21:48.750
understanding that why those, what factors are driving

01:21:49.350 --> 01:21:52.149
um, the conservation calls at these different times

01:21:52.159 --> 01:21:54.949
of the day, they're not used to. Understood. Yeah.

01:21:58.369 --> 01:22:01.500
Woody, thanks for being here uh important for the public

01:22:01.509 --> 01:22:03.958
to gain an understanding. Of the events that led up

01:22:03.970 --> 01:22:06.890
to the E A and really appreciate you being here today

01:22:08.489 --> 01:22:13.859
(item:29:Project No. 54445 - CY 2023 Review of Rules Adopted) Ok. Next up is item number 29 project number 54445

01:22:14.168 --> 01:22:18.649
2023. Review of rules adopted by the independent organization

01:22:18.659 --> 01:22:25.189
regarding OBDRRO 47 revision to errs S procurement

01:22:25.199 --> 01:22:28.350
methodology regarding unused funds from previous terms

01:22:28.548 --> 01:22:30.949
Sheila, do we have anyone from the public signed up

01:22:30.958 --> 01:22:34.079
to speak on item number 29? No, ma'am. No one has signed

01:22:34.088 --> 01:22:36.720
up to speak on this. Staff did file a memo and a

01:22:36.729 --> 01:22:39.600
proposed order for your consideration. Ok, so we do

01:22:39.609 --> 01:22:41.949
have staff here. If anyone has any questions,

01:22:44.149 --> 01:22:46.279
madam chair, I would move that we adopt the proposed

01:22:46.819 --> 01:22:52.009
second. OK. We have a motion and a second to um approve

01:22:52.020 --> 01:22:56.649
the the proposed order. Uh All in favor say I I motion

01:22:56.659 --> 01:22:57.439
passes

01:22:59.759 --> 01:23:04.680
(item:30:Project No. 54584 - Reliability Standard for the ERCOT - Woody Rickerson) next up is item number 30. Project number 54584, the

01:23:04.689 --> 01:23:08.159
reliability standard for the Acott market for the reliability

01:23:08.168 --> 01:23:11.810
standard. Acott is modeling 48 scenarios. Today we'll

01:23:11.819 --> 01:23:15.279
discuss the modeling results of the 1st 24 Sheila.

01:23:15.289 --> 01:23:17.520
Do we have anyone from the public signed up to speak

01:23:17.529 --> 01:23:21.048
on item number 30? No, ma'am. Ok. Woody. Would you

01:23:21.060 --> 01:23:23.930
want to come on up and tell us about the results,

01:23:33.989 --> 01:23:35.378
Woody Richerson with ERCOT.

01:23:37.890 --> 01:23:42.079
So the last time we talked to you, we had given you

01:23:42.088 --> 01:23:47.369
uh some preliminary results. So the memo we filed has

01:23:47.520 --> 01:23:52.609
the 1st 24 of the 48 results that we'll have by the

01:23:52.619 --> 01:23:56.720
end of the month. So the table has 24 of those, we'll

01:23:56.729 --> 01:24:00.930
get 24 more later. There are eight bullet points there

01:24:00.939 --> 01:24:03.689
that represent changes that were made in the model

01:24:03.699 --> 01:24:06.180
tuning and improvements that were made in the model

01:24:08.829 --> 01:24:11.470
After those preliminary results were run, these are

01:24:11.479 --> 01:24:14.588
things that were changed to get the, the, the that

01:24:14.600 --> 01:24:18.659
are included in these 24. Some of the significant ones

01:24:18.668 --> 01:24:20.659
I won't read them all. But some of the significant

01:24:20.668 --> 01:24:25.208
ones are that uh the second bullet, we implemented

01:24:25.220 --> 01:24:30.060
a thermal outage reduction success factor of 85% to

01:24:30.069 --> 01:24:32.829
reflect the impacts of the commission's weatherization

01:24:32.838 --> 01:24:33.449
standards.

01:24:36.199 --> 01:24:39.649
Um The last couple of bullets there, uh we updated

01:24:39.659 --> 01:24:46.579
the resource mix based on the May 2023 CD R. And in

01:24:46.588 --> 01:24:49.890
consultation with the imm, we changed the cone value

01:24:49.899 --> 01:24:56.180
to 100 and 19 dollars per Megawatt year, 100 and 19,000

01:24:56.189 --> 01:24:57.418
per kilowatt year.

01:24:59.949 --> 01:25:03.789
So those are the uh those are the changes that went

01:25:03.798 --> 01:25:07.819
in to run these results. And then um just some of the

01:25:07.829 --> 01:25:11.890
scenario analysis steps here. So like, like we talked

01:25:11.899 --> 01:25:16.659
about before, we have a, a three part frequency duration

01:25:16.668 --> 01:25:20.479
and magnitude reliability standard. And it includes

01:25:20.489 --> 01:25:25.020
a exceedance probability and the exceed the easiest

01:25:25.029 --> 01:25:28.000
way to understand the exceedance probability is that

01:25:28.279 --> 01:25:34.149
it represents the outlying distributions that your

01:25:34.279 --> 01:25:37.779
reliability standard will not cover. So if you make

01:25:37.789 --> 01:25:41.970
it 100% then it'll cover everything. 98% you'll have

01:25:41.979 --> 01:25:44.418
2% of the outliers not covered. And so you'll see those

01:25:44.430 --> 01:25:47.899
numbers in there as well. We started with the December

01:25:47.909 --> 01:25:52.569
22 CD R. We updated it. 3000 megawatts of coal were

01:25:52.579 --> 01:25:57.430
removed in all the and there's also 900 megawatts of

01:25:57.439 --> 01:26:04.798
gas steam retirements removed. Um So the way this,

01:26:04.810 --> 01:26:09.569
these scenarios are set up was the model then had CTS

01:26:09.579 --> 01:26:14.128
added back in to achieve the frequency of one in 10

01:26:14.390 --> 01:26:18.048
1 in 15, 1 in 20. So the base is a one

01:26:18.060 --> 01:26:22.109
in five frequency blocks of CTS were added back in

01:26:22.119 --> 01:26:24.729
to get to one in 10, 1 in 15 and one in

01:26:24.739 --> 01:26:25.220
20.

01:26:27.100 --> 01:26:30.369
Um All the mixes, all the, all the scenarios include

01:26:30.399 --> 01:26:34.609
100 megawatts of rooftop solar and 3000 megawatts of

01:26:34.619 --> 01:26:35.220
batteries.

01:26:36.890 --> 01:26:43.680
The uh no, no win was added to speak of. Um And

01:26:43.708 --> 01:26:46.009
you'll see two different kinds of scenarios here. You'll

01:26:46.020 --> 01:26:49.529
see one where just blocks of CTS were added and then

01:26:49.539 --> 01:26:52.378
you'll see another set of scenarios that have identical

01:26:52.390 --> 01:26:56.079
parameters. But instead of adding blocks of CTS, we

01:26:56.088 --> 01:26:59.500
add a generation in the proportion that they are represented

01:26:59.509 --> 01:27:00.338
in the CD R

01:27:01.859 --> 01:27:05.390
and in the table, it shows you the amount of dispatchable

01:27:05.399 --> 01:27:09.079
generation. So if you think about that, um that CD

01:27:09.088 --> 01:27:14.378
R mix, there is a portion of that, that is dispatchable

01:27:15.979 --> 01:27:18.640
That's all that reported in the table. And so when

01:27:18.649 --> 01:27:21.168
you see that CD R mix, there's a bunch of bunch of

01:27:21.180 --> 01:27:23.628
solar and batteries that are being added along with

01:27:23.640 --> 01:27:27.939
that. So if you want to look at the uh those results

01:27:28.560 --> 01:27:31.939
I'll go through those real quick. Um If you wanna look

01:27:31.949 --> 01:27:36.470
at maybe row number one and row number nine.

01:27:38.029 --> 01:27:43.739
So the yellow, our road number one is if you add CTS

01:27:43.789 --> 01:27:48.520
and row number nine is exactly the same except you've

01:27:48.529 --> 01:27:52.609
added a CD R mix. And so in both of these, the

01:27:52.619 --> 01:27:57.149
frequency, how often you should expect an event is

01:27:57.159 --> 01:28:01.628
one in five years. In both of them, the duration is

01:28:01.640 --> 01:28:05.319
15 hours. So if an event occurs, it could be up to

01:28:05.329 --> 01:28:09.949
15 hours in length and the magnitude, the amount of

01:28:09.958 --> 01:28:11.449
megawatts that would get

01:28:12.989 --> 01:28:17.020
would be involved in a, in a uh a loaded rotating would

01:28:17.029 --> 01:28:20.729
be 14,000. So those are your, your three standards

01:28:20.739 --> 01:28:25.369
frequency duration and magnitude. Um If you look at

01:28:25.378 --> 01:28:28.619
the first column in the scenario, outcomes, it gives

01:28:28.628 --> 01:28:31.579
the expected unserved energy. And you'll see that in

01:28:31.588 --> 01:28:35.259
row, number one, there's 7633 Megawatt hours and a

01:28:35.270 --> 01:28:39.930
similar number in row number 9, 7731 Megawatt hours

01:28:39.939 --> 01:28:44.369
So that's your expected unserved energy. In both of

01:28:44.378 --> 01:28:46.859
these cases, nothing was added because we're at a one

01:28:46.869 --> 01:28:51.720
in five. So we didn't have to add CTS. And if you

01:28:51.729 --> 01:28:54.600
look over at the almost not the last column, but the

01:28:54.609 --> 01:28:57.128
next to last column, you'll see the exceedance probability

01:28:57.140 --> 01:29:00.838
for duration and the exceedance probability for magnitude

01:29:00.850 --> 01:29:03.958
which are two separate things. So going forward, when

01:29:03.970 --> 01:29:05.548
you get the rest of these results,

01:29:08.649 --> 01:29:09.869
I would suggest

01:29:11.409 --> 01:29:15.378
that decisions are made about exceedance probability

01:29:15.390 --> 01:29:16.029
First,

01:29:17.899 --> 01:29:22.378
what kind of exceedance probability is tolerable for

01:29:22.390 --> 01:29:27.399
our reliability, standard color or unacceptable? Either

01:29:27.458 --> 01:29:32.168
one which I mean is it, should it cover 98% or 95%

01:29:32.180 --> 01:29:38.390
or 90%. So that will having that number will help us

01:29:38.399 --> 01:29:41.680
narrow stuff down. That'll be one. And then of course

01:29:41.689 --> 01:29:44.418
you've got your three frequency duration of magnitude

01:29:45.810 --> 01:29:50.350
but, but those those together will, will, will be the

01:29:50.359 --> 01:29:54.329
things and there may be things that you say, you know

01:29:55.100 --> 01:29:57.890
you right now you have a magnitude of of 14, 10 and

01:29:57.899 --> 01:30:02.439
five, maybe you want 16 or 18.

01:30:03.949 --> 01:30:08.458
So those kinds of inputs are what we are looking for

01:30:08.470 --> 01:30:10.199
for the next round of iterations.

01:30:12.600 --> 01:30:15.270
(item:30:Commissioner McAdams asks for comparison example such as 2011 event) So I know what I'd like to know just as, as a

01:30:15.279 --> 01:30:19.159
a an example of something to compare against. Um I'd

01:30:19.168 --> 01:30:27.069
like 2011, the event of 2011 broken down into a duration

01:30:27.079 --> 01:30:32.819
magnitude uh event like what was it? Um I think I've

01:30:32.829 --> 01:30:35.128
got the duration but I want ERCOT to do it, you know

01:30:35.140 --> 01:30:38.729
so you apply your methodology, but I wanna know what

01:30:38.739 --> 01:30:42.109
that was when I compare this, this table to it.

01:30:44.079 --> 01:30:47.739
We can follow. I know what that felt like and I know

01:30:47.750 --> 01:30:51.958
what 21 felt like. That is definitely not good. So

01:30:51.970 --> 01:30:54.470
once we kind of have that comparison, we'll, we'll

01:30:54.479 --> 01:30:59.259
know what that looks like. OK. And we're also working

01:30:59.270 --> 01:31:05.359
on a prompt here as requested by the IMM. And that

01:31:05.369 --> 01:31:09.109
will tell us where we are. I think it's for next summer

01:31:10.640 --> 01:31:13.609
What the frequency magnitude rate where we stand as

01:31:13.619 --> 01:31:14.909
of next summer? Yeah,

01:31:17.418 --> 01:31:19.909
so one of the question. Oh yeah, sorry. Commission

01:31:19.918 --> 01:31:22.720
If you want to keep going, you can. Well. Uh So one

01:31:22.729 --> 01:31:25.140
of the other questions I had was the sensitivity of

01:31:25.149 --> 01:31:28.949
weatherization effectiveness. Um The the weatherization

01:31:28.958 --> 01:31:31.548
effectiveness. That's our, that's a, that's an input

01:31:31.560 --> 01:31:37.640
that is an assumption 85%. Um Now we have standards

01:31:37.649 --> 01:31:40.680
that we will hold generators to but um

01:31:42.199 --> 01:31:45.128
I, I believe this is gonna need to be looked at moving

01:31:45.140 --> 01:31:49.668
forward on a uh iterative or periodic basis. Um Once

01:31:49.680 --> 01:31:53.159
we adopt a standard, I would like some of those base

01:31:53.168 --> 01:31:57.399
uh components of the framework and evaluation to survive

01:31:57.409 --> 01:32:00.708
for a while as uh ERCOT and the commission iterates

01:32:01.329 --> 01:32:01.930
Um

01:32:03.779 --> 01:32:07.119
Could we, do you think it's appropriate to have? And

01:32:07.128 --> 01:32:11.250
I keep thinking about the natural gas boom of 2011

01:32:11.259 --> 01:32:15.109
through 2020. Uh the collapse in natural gas prices

01:32:15.119 --> 01:32:18.189
the price signals to generators in an energy only market

01:32:18.298 --> 01:32:21.458
their interest in investing in some of those units

01:32:21.470 --> 01:32:25.020
And thus the, the the success rate of those units and

01:32:25.029 --> 01:32:27.449
actually staying online during winter storm Erie, because

01:32:27.458 --> 01:32:29.378
II I think we highlighted a problem that there was

01:32:29.390 --> 01:32:33.869
not enough revenue in the system to drive generators

01:32:33.878 --> 01:32:36.548
to reinvest in their facilities and thus harden them

01:32:36.789 --> 01:32:40.649
and to survive a weather event. Um I, I think that

01:32:40.659 --> 01:32:43.878
was certainly implied. So I'd like to see a range of

01:32:44.060 --> 01:32:47.250
of assumptions on that weatherization scale. Like how

01:32:47.259 --> 01:32:51.180
does this perform if 85% is too optimistic or if it's

01:32:51.189 --> 01:32:55.239
not optimistic enough, um just to see how that impacts

01:32:55.250 --> 01:32:58.899
this. Yeah. So for this analysis of these 1st 48 we'll

01:32:58.909 --> 01:33:02.128
keep it at 85. But for future iterations, we can move

01:33:02.140 --> 01:33:04.259
that number around and give you some sensitivities

01:33:04.270 --> 01:33:09.970
to see if that, if it was 100% or whatever going forward

01:33:09.979 --> 01:33:13.439
as we, as I anticipate, we will run this every year

01:33:14.100 --> 01:33:16.548
That number will get more and more informed based on

01:33:16.560 --> 01:33:18.789
performance that happens during the actual winters

01:33:18.838 --> 01:33:22.479
We don't have a whole lot to go on yet, but we'll

01:33:22.489 --> 01:33:24.699
have some more winter storms and we'll get to see just

01:33:24.708 --> 01:33:27.009
how good the performance is and we can tune this to

01:33:27.020 --> 01:33:29.949
match actual performance built in performance based

01:33:29.958 --> 01:33:32.750
accreditation. So when you say yearly basis, you're

01:33:32.759 --> 01:33:35.310
you're gonna run basically that, that like you said

01:33:35.319 --> 01:33:37.859
duration magnitude to just kind of get a picture based

01:33:37.869 --> 01:33:40.259
on the CD R mix or C just kind of do it

01:33:40.270 --> 01:33:43.399
on an annual basis, will that take into account seasonality

01:33:43.409 --> 01:33:47.009
Like for instance, CD R mix is, you know, the resources

01:33:47.020 --> 01:33:49.418
and the planned resources that the planned resources

01:33:49.430 --> 01:33:53.140
in the CD R mix or CR for rather all have different

01:33:53.149 --> 01:33:56.798
attributes during summer, winter, right. So would that

01:33:56.810 --> 01:33:58.970
capture seasonality? Like, you know, solar is pretty

01:33:58.979 --> 01:34:01.970
high in the summer but not as high in the winter wind

01:34:02.298 --> 01:34:07.529
you know. Yeah, so it's using a uh annual. When you

01:34:07.539 --> 01:34:11.659
do the probability analysis, you're looking at a year

01:34:11.668 --> 01:34:17.020
of solar data, a draw of solar data and a draw of

01:34:17.029 --> 01:34:19.069
of wind data. So you have,

01:34:20.829 --> 01:34:23.579
I don't remember how many years or 40 years of solar

01:34:23.588 --> 01:34:26.789
data that you can look at and pull from. So every time

01:34:26.798 --> 01:34:28.930
you do a run, you're pulling one of those. And so it's

01:34:28.939 --> 01:34:32.060
a full year and so it captures the seasonality great

01:34:32.069 --> 01:34:35.189
and it'll capture the battery as well. Batteries will

01:34:35.199 --> 01:34:37.918
be different because we'll have to, we'll have to put

01:34:37.930 --> 01:34:38.509
those in

01:34:40.338 --> 01:34:44.259
that. That, that was my question was um in all these

01:34:44.270 --> 01:34:47.500
scenarios you talk, you, you, I think appropriately

01:34:47.509 --> 01:34:51.199
use uh or you measure eu e you know, kind of one

01:34:51.208 --> 01:34:56.810
of these new standards that we may um uh utilize in

01:34:56.819 --> 01:35:00.878
in painting this picture. Um And then you have new

01:35:00.890 --> 01:35:05.850
megawatts of dispatchable resources. Is there a way

01:35:05.859 --> 01:35:09.509
um to, you know, if, if we look at our interconnection

01:35:09.520 --> 01:35:13.779
queue, um If you look at line two for one in 10

01:35:14.149 --> 01:35:18.899
Um, you're adding 2900 and 68 megawatts from AC T

01:35:20.509 --> 01:35:26.430
to translate that into Megawatt hours and to determine

01:35:26.739 --> 01:35:31.270
uh, where we stand with the, I'm thinking for this

01:35:31.279 --> 01:35:34.739
coming summer for this winter with the new onslaught

01:35:34.750 --> 01:35:36.588
of batteries that are coming on the system. Can they

01:35:36.600 --> 01:35:40.548
help that situation? Can they reduce that number of

01:35:40.560 --> 01:35:44.579
CTS needed? Um, and I know there's a bunch of assumptions

01:35:44.588 --> 01:35:46.338
in there. Are they two hour batteries, are they four

01:35:46.350 --> 01:35:48.539
hour batteries? Are they one hour batteries don't scare

01:35:48.548 --> 01:35:49.909
Woody Jimmy. But uh

01:35:51.668 --> 01:35:55.350
I'm just wondering, does that help us get a better

01:35:55.359 --> 01:35:57.109
picture of where we might be?

01:35:59.819 --> 01:36:03.048
Do you think that's a different analysis giving you

01:36:03.060 --> 01:36:04.329
an hour? Do you think that,

01:36:06.259 --> 01:36:09.449
are you asking for the capacity factor of the new generation

01:36:11.789 --> 01:36:14.798
Uh No. Uh what I'm, I guess what I'm really just asking

01:36:14.810 --> 01:36:20.159
is, um, do you all believe the delta between the CDR

01:36:20.168 --> 01:36:25.220
and the scenarios that you've created uh are realistic

01:36:25.229 --> 01:36:27.869
in terms of what is actually happening on the system

01:36:27.878 --> 01:36:31.989
with batteries and the number of megawatts that you

01:36:32.000 --> 01:36:34.779
would add in terms of AC T, if you translate that two

01:36:34.789 --> 01:36:37.520
into a Megawatt hour, would batteries actually

01:36:39.798 --> 01:36:43.039
substitute? Right. So the model will incorporate, both

01:36:43.048 --> 01:36:47.949
incorporates the behavior of both? Ok. Ok. Um We're

01:36:47.958 --> 01:36:51.958
still learning what battery is doing. Yeah. So that

01:36:51.970 --> 01:36:54.128
behavior may change in the model a little bit as we

01:36:54.140 --> 01:36:57.878
learn more, but we do incorporate that in the model

01:36:57.890 --> 01:37:02.060
now. So there, the behavior is there. Um

01:37:03.829 --> 01:37:06.119
I don't want to go out on a limb here because I'm

01:37:06.128 --> 01:37:08.600
not running the model. But conceivably, maybe you could

01:37:08.609 --> 01:37:11.239
add just batteries and not CTS and see what would happen

01:37:12.369 --> 01:37:15.189
I'm not for sure if that's, if there's that capability

01:37:15.199 --> 01:37:17.729
or not, but we can explore that. Ok. That'd be great

01:37:20.470 --> 01:37:20.829
Um

01:37:22.979 --> 01:37:27.739
So 11 of the look high arching thought on on a path

01:37:27.750 --> 01:37:30.149
forward here, I I think this is good. The draft is

01:37:30.159 --> 01:37:34.750
is a, is a great example of how it's iterating forward

01:37:34.759 --> 01:37:39.659
and narrowing the cone for us. Um I think I URCO no

01:37:39.668 --> 01:37:41.878
matter what should be allowed to continue on this approach

01:37:41.890 --> 01:37:45.708
that they're on and we'll see this further start to

01:37:45.720 --> 01:37:47.750
to narrow. Um

01:37:50.029 --> 01:37:52.640
II I think from this point forward, from what I'm gonna

01:37:52.649 --> 01:37:55.548
be looking for this, we are now entering the peer review

01:37:55.560 --> 01:37:58.899
phase of this process. So the collective intelligence

01:37:58.909 --> 01:38:01.838
of the market needs to come to bear on this. Uh We

01:38:01.850 --> 01:38:04.989
we're in uncharted waters as is SPP and the other is

01:38:05.000 --> 01:38:09.869
OS. So I think um we need everybody to evaluate what

01:38:09.878 --> 01:38:11.520
are the metrics, what are the assumptions, what are

01:38:11.529 --> 01:38:14.319
the methodology being employed in this model and start

01:38:14.329 --> 01:38:17.759
to provide feedback so that then we can really start

01:38:17.770 --> 01:38:22.109
to narrow the cone um and provide us a better uh uh

01:38:22.319 --> 01:38:26.798
field of options rather than a broad universe, um,

01:38:26.810 --> 01:38:29.458
that we can, we can start to debate. Ok. What are the

01:38:29.470 --> 01:38:31.680
pluses and minuses? What are the features and, and

01:38:31.689 --> 01:38:35.649
the downside risks of each? And, um, and that needs

01:38:35.659 --> 01:38:37.500
to happen over the next month.

01:38:39.588 --> 01:38:43.829
So, after we deliver the second set of these assumptions

01:38:43.838 --> 01:38:46.250
and we don't have anything else on our plate to run

01:38:46.259 --> 01:38:48.470
yet until we get direction back.

01:38:50.359 --> 01:38:53.069
So, Commissioner McAdams, are you contemplating after

01:38:53.079 --> 01:38:56.270
er, is done with all of the 48 scenarios? Getting feedback

01:38:56.279 --> 01:39:01.378
on them? Yes, at the puc or? That's right. And, and

01:39:01.390 --> 01:39:04.609
I think, I think they can, this is an important first

01:39:04.619 --> 01:39:06.449
look because they're starting to see what you're using

01:39:06.458 --> 01:39:10.149
what your inputs are and what are the, how, how this

01:39:10.689 --> 01:39:12.859
and we want them to come at this from their own, uh

01:39:12.869 --> 01:39:15.708
unique company perspectives. You know, there's winners

01:39:15.720 --> 01:39:18.310
and losers in any way we cut this. I wanna hear that

01:39:18.319 --> 01:39:20.680
feedback. I wanna smoke this out. We're already hearing

01:39:20.899 --> 01:39:23.588
that we shouldn't be comparing this against 100% CTS

01:39:23.600 --> 01:39:26.310
but it should be combined cycles. Um So there's gonna

01:39:26.319 --> 01:39:29.359
be every time type of comparative, you know, metric

01:39:29.369 --> 01:39:34.239
thrown out there. Uh We need to see that, uh, and then

01:39:34.250 --> 01:39:37.970
ultimately, you know, di different benchmarks like

01:39:37.979 --> 01:39:42.359
2011 or what is the appropriate comparative scenario

01:39:42.378 --> 01:39:45.069
As a commissioner, we're gonna need to know that from

01:39:45.079 --> 01:39:47.958
a health and safety perspective, from a uh economic

01:39:47.970 --> 01:39:53.329
risk and economic cost perspective. Um But, but the

01:39:53.338 --> 01:39:55.609
market will help inform us on that. So we can, we can

01:39:55.619 --> 01:39:59.048
debate how long of a turnaround we expect that. But

01:39:59.060 --> 01:40:02.048
I believe between now and mid October is gonna be an

01:40:02.060 --> 01:40:05.720
important period. Uh The ERCOT board will meet um in

01:40:05.729 --> 01:40:11.909
mid October. Uh and, and then we start to issue instruction

01:40:11.918 --> 01:40:13.569
on how this will be significantly narrowed.

01:40:17.250 --> 01:40:19.680
Does that make sense? I think it does, I mean, right

01:40:19.689 --> 01:40:21.869
now we're in the process of trying to give ERCOT direction

01:40:21.878 --> 01:40:24.159
on where we want to head with all these 48 scenarios

01:40:24.168 --> 01:40:27.958
And what you're looking for is additional feedback

01:40:27.970 --> 01:40:30.159
from the market from the stakeholders to help us. Sort

01:40:30.168 --> 01:40:31.918
of, is there something we're missing here? We need

01:40:31.930 --> 01:40:35.609
to know, are we missing something? Is ICO missing something

01:40:36.338 --> 01:40:39.869
Um And I can tell you I sent this over to SPP

01:40:39.878 --> 01:40:41.770
I haven't heard nothing back. So I think you're way

01:40:41.779 --> 01:40:45.319
ahead of them right now. So I'm, I'm trying to get

01:40:45.329 --> 01:40:49.659
that to where and, and I would say on the uh resource

01:40:49.668 --> 01:40:53.958
adequacy, uh work that I'm doing with and others. Um

01:40:53.970 --> 01:40:57.770
I mean, they are looking to ERCOT because uh lots of

01:40:57.779 --> 01:41:00.000
discussion going on out here and they're looking at

01:41:00.009 --> 01:41:03.100
us and going, they're actually doing this. So it's

01:41:03.109 --> 01:41:07.128
a, it's a uh a credit to offer uh leading the pack

01:41:07.140 --> 01:41:09.890
but we need, we need the market, it's a big broad market

01:41:09.899 --> 01:41:11.649
They beat you up all the time. They need to provide

01:41:11.659 --> 01:41:15.930
some feedback um on, on, on how this thing moves forward

01:41:16.338 --> 01:41:19.789
Well, if it's useful for us to hold a workshop or,

01:41:19.798 --> 01:41:22.128
I don't know how that works, what, what, what process

01:41:22.140 --> 01:41:26.250
you want, but we can work it either way. Yeah. Uh Well

01:41:26.259 --> 01:41:28.500
I, I've got recommendations on how to utilize the time

01:41:28.509 --> 01:41:30.770
on workshops in between, you know, and, and we've got

01:41:30.779 --> 01:41:33.798
to face first things first too. So I don't wanna populate

01:41:33.810 --> 01:41:38.588
our calendar with workshops on that. Uh Just yet because

01:41:38.600 --> 01:41:42.029
um it may be better served. We, we've got a winner

01:41:42.039 --> 01:41:44.798
approaching as well. And so I, I know there'll be a

01:41:44.810 --> 01:41:47.708
lot of discussion on how to utilize the time in October

01:41:47.720 --> 01:41:50.850
October is an important month. Well, I think to your

01:41:50.859 --> 01:41:54.199
point, what your challenge is, as I read it is, you

01:41:54.208 --> 01:41:56.859
know, from a technical standpoint to have the market

01:41:56.869 --> 01:41:59.779
participants take a look at it. It doesn't necessarily

01:41:59.789 --> 01:42:04.134
need to be the end or along the way in terms of

01:42:04.145 --> 01:42:07.024
a formal stakeholder process, but they're evaluating

01:42:07.034 --> 01:42:11.645
this as we move forward and to kind of reach out with

01:42:11.685 --> 01:42:15.134
their technical observations as we move forward. I'm

01:42:15.145 --> 01:42:17.564
gonna use an old legislative phrase, you better discuss

01:42:17.574 --> 01:42:19.963
the menu or you're gonna be on the menu and so they

01:42:19.975 --> 01:42:22.484
better be engaged on the front end on this. Um We're

01:42:22.494 --> 01:42:26.164
all in this together and uh if, if we wanna make this

01:42:26.173 --> 01:42:29.444
market work, we're gonna need feedback from the market

01:42:31.060 --> 01:42:33.569
Well, the next filing you see will be the full 48.

01:42:34.819 --> 01:42:39.259
It'll be this chart filled out completely. So, so woody

01:42:39.270 --> 01:42:43.229
we talked a lot about, um, the increments and the various

01:42:43.239 --> 01:42:46.250
scenarios. Um, can you just take a minute and just

01:42:46.259 --> 01:42:49.479
talk about the base and how the base was the base assumption

01:42:49.489 --> 01:42:53.729
was developed? And, um, with, I guess the thought being

01:42:53.739 --> 01:42:56.298
at some point in time, we could do some flex cases

01:42:56.310 --> 01:42:59.619
off the base if we're thinking that maybe there might

01:42:59.628 --> 01:43:03.609
potentially be more wind and solar batteries. Yeah

01:43:03.640 --> 01:43:06.548
So the to what's currently in the base, right. So the

01:43:06.859 --> 01:43:12.390
adequacy team um provided a, I think in the filing

01:43:12.399 --> 01:43:16.259
that development steps and that pretty much describes

01:43:16.270 --> 01:43:21.310
how the base. So the base was configured to be to start

01:43:21.319 --> 01:43:24.680
at a frequency of one in five years. So the generation

01:43:24.689 --> 01:43:27.369
was taken out of the case to get to that point, which

01:43:27.378 --> 01:43:29.779
is not a conservative number. I mean, that's, that's

01:43:29.890 --> 01:43:32.689
a lot of stuff that a lot of stuff we don't know

01:43:32.699 --> 01:43:37.838
exactly some of that was coal capacity that many people

01:43:37.850 --> 01:43:40.479
anticipate may, may be effective, but that wasn't the

01:43:40.489 --> 01:43:43.560
driving factor there. It was. And then there's 900

01:43:43.569 --> 01:43:45.930
megawatts of gas that was taken out as well. That,

01:43:45.939 --> 01:43:50.729
that is on the books to retirement. So that, that and

01:43:50.739 --> 01:43:56.479
then it was updated with um the May 2023 CD R and

01:43:56.489 --> 01:44:01.270
we also use the May 2023 CD R to get the proportions

01:44:01.279 --> 01:44:03.909
of what people are expecting to add to the system.

01:44:04.359 --> 01:44:09.979
So the, the all CT versus the CD R mix, that CD

01:44:09.989 --> 01:44:16.259
R mix is based on the May 2023 ratios of what people

01:44:16.270 --> 01:44:20.310
are expecting to put on the system. So I I don't have

01:44:20.319 --> 01:44:22.869
those numbers in front of me, but it's a lot of solar

01:44:22.878 --> 01:44:24.869
a lot of batteries, a little bit of, a little bit of

01:44:24.878 --> 01:44:28.699
thermal. So one option we'll have moving forward is

01:44:28.708 --> 01:44:32.489
to kind of take a look at um potentially a scenario

01:44:32.500 --> 01:44:35.850
where we go in and say there's actually more than what

01:44:35.859 --> 01:44:39.439
we anticipated in terms of resource mix associated

01:44:39.449 --> 01:44:42.390
with wind and solar and batteries. And then I guess

01:44:42.520 --> 01:44:47.020
directionally, if we would do that and move more towards

01:44:47.029 --> 01:44:51.000
wind solar and batteries, then theoretically this exceeding

01:44:51.009 --> 01:44:56.560
probability um would go up, we can do that. We can

01:44:56.569 --> 01:45:00.329
run that scenario. You can also consider what the low

01:45:00.338 --> 01:45:04.439
interest loan program, what effect that has. Well,

01:45:04.449 --> 01:45:06.310
that's why I was so thrilled to see some of these numbers

01:45:06.319 --> 01:45:08.569
I mean, like, well, hey, we can do this. Uh but, but

01:45:08.579 --> 01:45:10.798
let, let me ask you a question on that because, well

01:45:10.810 --> 01:45:13.600
you, you just, we can do this. So if you look at

01:45:13.609 --> 01:45:21.399
line 10, um it says we're 22 26 megawatts short. But

01:45:21.409 --> 01:45:26.009
is that a real reflected number or is it really 22

01:45:26.020 --> 01:45:34.128
26 in 26 minus or additive 900 of gas CTS that you

01:45:34.140 --> 01:45:36.798
took out and 3000 of coal capacity that you took out

01:45:38.430 --> 01:45:40.430
Yeah. So the, so the hole that we're trying to fill

01:45:40.439 --> 01:45:46.140
is not 22 26 it is 22 26 plus 3000 plus 900

01:45:47.069 --> 01:45:49.140
Well, the PCM isn't around yet so you don't have to

01:45:49.149 --> 01:45:51.100
worry about that. No, no, no, I'm just, uh, I, I'm

01:45:51.109 --> 01:45:54.899
trying to make sure that, uh, we, we're not looking

01:45:54.939 --> 01:45:59.770
at, we're just 2200 megawatts short in 2026. We're

01:45:59.779 --> 01:46:04.399
really more than that. If in fact EPA regulations go

01:46:04.409 --> 01:46:09.789
into effect and markets continue to devalue, uh, the

01:46:09.798 --> 01:46:11.810
energy associated with it, it goes back to the old

01:46:11.819 --> 01:46:14.180
argument of is this stuff really gonna retire? You

01:46:14.189 --> 01:46:16.128
know, this is an assumption that drives that number

01:46:16.140 --> 01:46:18.239
and we can run scenarios around those assumptions.

01:46:18.359 --> 01:46:21.619
But the 3000 megawatts that you took out wasn't based

01:46:21.628 --> 01:46:24.119
on EPA or anything, it was just to bring the standard

01:46:24.128 --> 01:46:27.329
down to one in five. So there's no basis. So the, the

01:46:27.338 --> 01:46:33.140
resource adequacy team wanted to have scenarios that

01:46:33.149 --> 01:46:37.168
were reflected as in frequency, first one in 51 in

01:46:37.180 --> 01:46:41.128
10, 1 15 and one in 20. And so they dialed in

01:46:41.869 --> 01:46:45.838
those numbers to make that work and then they let the

01:46:45.850 --> 01:46:50.449
duration of magnitude come out like they did. So the

01:46:50.458 --> 01:46:54.338
the, the additions to the to the base model were made

01:46:54.649 --> 01:46:58.390
to get that frequency into those segments. But, but

01:46:58.399 --> 01:47:01.640
the good thing is is that uh that resource mix was

01:47:01.649 --> 01:47:05.329
entered into the serve models encapsulating all those

01:47:05.338 --> 01:47:09.850
events over 1000 years. And um we're, we're within

01:47:09.859 --> 01:47:12.350
striking distance theoretically on a planning basis

01:47:12.668 --> 01:47:14.739
And that's the difference between planning and operations

01:47:15.079 --> 01:47:20.039
of, of achieving a, a more conservative or uh safer

01:47:20.048 --> 01:47:21.229
uh standard for the system.

01:47:25.250 --> 01:47:26.729
There's light at the end of the, yeah. And keep in

01:47:26.739 --> 01:47:30.640
mind too that it's not the capital cost of additional

01:47:30.649 --> 01:47:34.708
ct generation. That's the, the carrying cost. It's

01:47:34.720 --> 01:47:37.588
not the all in cost. It's the payment you'd have to

01:47:37.600 --> 01:47:41.798
make to get that generation. It's an annual cost, not

01:47:41.810 --> 01:47:41.819
a

01:47:44.189 --> 01:47:49.619
not capacity cost. I I worry that people are uh the

01:47:49.909 --> 01:47:52.069
the market's a little bit asleep at the wheel and on

01:47:52.079 --> 01:47:54.020
what you're demonstrating here, that's why I use that

01:47:54.029 --> 01:47:56.729
legislative analogy and everybody kind of woke up in

01:47:56.739 --> 01:48:00.899
the room. Um Th this is gonna be a, a big policy

01:48:00.909 --> 01:48:05.140
driver and, and we need, this is the time to engage

01:48:05.529 --> 01:48:06.128
I think.

01:48:09.750 --> 01:48:10.338
Thanks for,

01:48:12.329 --> 01:48:14.208
thanks for being here today and we look forward to

01:48:14.220 --> 01:48:17.029
seeing the remainder of the 38 scenarios at our next

01:48:17.039 --> 01:48:21.338
open meeting on September the 28th. Um It seems like

01:48:21.350 --> 01:48:23.729
we're at a good stopping point for a quick break to

01:48:23.739 --> 01:48:27.069
allow time for the court reporters to switch for recess

01:48:27.079 --> 01:48:28.899
and we'll be back in just a few minutes.

01:48:31.338 --> 01:48:31.500
Mhm.

01:48:38.939 --> 01:48:41.890
The commission will now resume its public meeting at

01:48:41.909 --> 01:48:48.810
11:41 a.m. (item:31:Emergency Pricing Program - Proposal for Publication) Next up is item number 31. Project number

01:48:48.819 --> 01:48:53.069
54585. This is the commission's rule making regarding

01:48:53.079 --> 01:48:56.430
the emergency pricing program. Today, we will discuss

01:48:56.439 --> 01:48:59.180
the proposal for publication. Sheila.

01:49:02.439 --> 01:49:04.819
Do we have anyone from the public signed up to speak

01:49:04.829 --> 01:49:06.479
on item number 31

01:49:08.279 --> 01:49:10.539
speaking for Sheila. It doesn't, I don't see any memes

01:49:10.548 --> 01:49:11.628
on this. So, no,

01:49:18.640 --> 01:49:20.100
I'm so sorry. We started without you.

01:49:21.640 --> 01:49:23.949
So do we have anybody from the public signed up to

01:49:23.958 --> 01:49:27.430
speak on item number 31 31. No, ma'am. Ok, thank you

01:49:27.918 --> 01:49:30.789
Um David spelt with the PUC staff is here, David, would

01:49:30.798 --> 01:49:34.418
you please um provide a brief overview of the proposal

01:49:34.430 --> 01:49:37.560
for publication? We have Warner Roth from our uh market

01:49:37.569 --> 01:49:41.109
analysis division and he is the leap thinker on this

01:49:41.119 --> 01:49:41.329
one.

01:49:44.009 --> 01:49:46.270
Um Good morning chair Jackson commissioners, I'm Warner

01:49:46.279 --> 01:49:48.350
Roth on commission staff. Uh So this rule making, as

01:49:48.359 --> 01:49:50.378
you said is to implement the emergency pricing program

01:49:50.390 --> 01:49:53.949
as required in pr 39. About 1 60. This new program

01:49:53.958 --> 01:49:56.289
would serve as a circuit breaker to limit financial

01:49:56.298 --> 01:49:58.779
exposure for consumers after ERCOT has had at high

01:49:58.789 --> 01:50:01.739
energy prices for an extended period of time. The rule

01:50:01.750 --> 01:50:05.109
language was added to 25 509 of the commission's subset

01:50:05.119 --> 01:50:08.048
of rules and contains the following provisions. First

01:50:08.060 --> 01:50:10.878
the rule establishes triggers for both the activation

01:50:10.890 --> 01:50:13.619
and termination of the emergency pricing program. The

01:50:13.628 --> 01:50:16.180
program would be activated as required by statute when

01:50:16.189 --> 01:50:18.909
the system wide energy price has been at the high system

01:50:18.918 --> 01:50:21.708
wide after cap for 12 hours within a rolling 24 hour

01:50:21.720 --> 01:50:25.539
period. For termination of the program staff has proposed

01:50:25.548 --> 01:50:27.739
having the program remain in effect until the later

01:50:27.750 --> 01:50:31.329
of either 72 hours after the activation of the emergency

01:50:31.338 --> 01:50:35.100
pricing program or 24 hours after he exits emergency

01:50:35.109 --> 01:50:38.539
operations. Next. While the emergency pricing program

01:50:38.548 --> 01:50:42.548
is active, the system wide cap will be set at the emergency

01:50:42.560 --> 01:50:45.079
offer cap. Staff has proposed that this value would

01:50:45.088 --> 01:50:47.869
be equal to the value of the current low system wide

01:50:47.878 --> 01:50:52.289
offer cap. Next. Um The this rule would create a reimbursement

01:50:52.298 --> 01:50:54.668
process as your part in statute for resource costs

01:50:54.680 --> 01:50:57.479
that exceed the emergency offer cap. While the emergency

01:50:57.489 --> 01:51:00.859
pricing pricing program is in effect, staff recommends

01:51:00.869 --> 01:51:03.390
aligning this recovery mechanism with the one previously

01:51:03.399 --> 01:51:05.958
approved by the commission for application for when

01:51:05.970 --> 01:51:08.128
the system wide offer cap is set at the low system

01:51:08.140 --> 01:51:11.479
wide upper cap value allowing for the recovery of actual

01:51:11.489 --> 01:51:13.779
marginal costs in excess of the offer cap.

01:51:15.350 --> 01:51:17.250
This rule would also create a couple of additional

01:51:17.259 --> 01:51:20.739
requirements for ICO ERCOT would be required to issue

01:51:20.750 --> 01:51:23.680
a market notice at both the activation and termination

01:51:23.689 --> 01:51:26.039
of the emergency pricing program. And additionally

01:51:26.069 --> 01:51:28.479
ERCOT would be required to file a report with the commission

01:51:28.489 --> 01:51:30.798
following an event that triggered the emer emergency

01:51:30.810 --> 01:51:34.668
pricing program. This report would include um in from

01:51:34.680 --> 01:51:36.850
staff's initial proposal, a summary of the event that

01:51:36.859 --> 01:51:39.399
triggered the program, an analysis of the market performance

01:51:39.409 --> 01:51:42.539
during the event information on the recovery of costs

01:51:42.548 --> 01:51:45.479
and excess of the emergency offer cap and any recommendations

01:51:45.489 --> 01:51:47.619
for further refinements to the emergency pricing program

01:51:47.878 --> 01:51:51.060
And then lastly, this um rolling would also create

01:51:51.069 --> 01:51:54.009
the requirement for the commission to review the various

01:51:54.020 --> 01:51:56.449
offer cap programs every five years as required by

01:51:56.458 --> 01:52:00.369
statute starting in 2026. Um The identified offer cap

01:52:00.378 --> 01:52:02.128
programs that would be included in this review would

01:52:02.140 --> 01:52:04.319
be the high system wide offer cap, low system wide

01:52:04.329 --> 01:52:07.259
offer cap and this newly created emergency offer cap

01:52:07.418 --> 01:52:09.500
And with that, I'm happy to take any questions. And

01:52:09.509 --> 01:52:12.770
the only thing I'll add is this is one of the key

01:52:12.779 --> 01:52:15.088
provisions from SB three from last session. And we

01:52:15.100 --> 01:52:18.100
view it as a sort of a central customer price protection

01:52:18.109 --> 01:52:21.128
sort of piece of legislation. And the, the, the reason

01:52:21.140 --> 01:52:23.489
it's coming before you now is we are gonna try and

01:52:23.500 --> 01:52:26.600
get this thing done uh in anticipation in advance of

01:52:26.609 --> 01:52:30.609
the upcoming winter season. Very good. Ok. We have

01:52:30.619 --> 01:52:35.430
any thoughts uh (item:31:Commissioner McAdams on section about reimbursement) madam chair if I may. Um I'm just gonna

01:52:35.439 --> 01:52:39.000
read uh the section that relates to reimbursement for

01:52:39.009 --> 01:52:44.310
costs that exceed the EC um as per the proposed rule

01:52:44.319 --> 01:52:49.369
um for publication. While the Epp is active ERCOT must

01:52:49.378 --> 01:52:52.430
reimburse resource entities for any actual marginal

01:52:52.439 --> 01:52:56.739
cost that exceed the greater of the EC or the real

01:52:56.750 --> 01:53:00.369
time energy price for the resource ERCOT must utilize

01:53:00.378 --> 01:53:02.859
existing settlement process to the extent practical

01:53:02.869 --> 01:53:05.560
to verify the resource entity cost of reimbursement

01:53:06.399 --> 01:53:06.838
Um

01:53:08.479 --> 01:53:12.838
Unfortunately, the price of power is often influenced

01:53:12.850 --> 01:53:17.109
by commodity prices for which we have no control. Um

01:53:17.649 --> 01:53:23.810
And I I think winter storm y was the most vivid example

01:53:23.819 --> 01:53:26.609
of how that could have unintended consequences and

01:53:26.619 --> 01:53:32.060
undesirable consequences for uh ICO consumers. In my

01:53:32.069 --> 01:53:34.739
view, we cannot allow seemingly arbitrary price changes

01:53:34.750 --> 01:53:37.640
to be borne by ratepayers without some limiting factor

01:53:37.649 --> 01:53:40.470
And I believe that's the intent of the rule and it

01:53:40.479 --> 01:53:44.798
was the intent of the law. Um And therefore, I would

01:53:45.079 --> 01:53:48.319
urge the commission to consider as we go into the,

01:53:48.329 --> 01:53:51.039
the proposal for publication of which I am not suggesting

01:53:51.048 --> 01:53:54.909
any changes at this time. But uh did the commission

01:53:54.918 --> 01:53:58.479
considered language setting an upper limit to the reimbursable

01:53:58.489 --> 01:54:01.319
costs? And I'm not prejudging what that would look

01:54:01.329 --> 01:54:04.458
like. Uh I'm certainly interested in what the market

01:54:04.470 --> 01:54:08.100
uh stakeholders will submit in terms of public comment

01:54:08.689 --> 01:54:11.779
But uh it for discussion purposes, it could be as simple

01:54:11.789 --> 01:54:15.048
as some type of reference to the age cap because again

01:54:15.060 --> 01:54:18.159
the intent of this program is to limit the exposure

01:54:18.168 --> 01:54:22.180
of cost to consumers and by not referencing high cap

01:54:22.189 --> 01:54:27.390
or some type of upper limit as a bound boundary, um

01:54:27.399 --> 01:54:31.199
it could be construed as gas can be whatever it wants

01:54:31.579 --> 01:54:34.720
Uh generators have to pay it and thus we have to pay

01:54:34.729 --> 01:54:36.838
it. And the Public Utility Commission of Texas has

01:54:36.850 --> 01:54:41.199
always had one bit of leverage in terms of this market

01:54:41.208 --> 01:54:44.918
And that is no cost can exceed the high cap in terms

01:54:44.930 --> 01:54:48.128
of bid prices into the system. And so we need some

01:54:48.140 --> 01:54:49.479
type of limiting factor,

01:54:53.140 --> 01:54:56.270
very good. Um The commissions I've had talked about

01:54:56.279 --> 01:54:58.640
um including something like that. But um pre previously

01:54:58.649 --> 01:55:01.798
when we implemented a similar um mechanism for the

01:55:01.810 --> 01:55:04.850
when the low system cap is in effect, we did not include

01:55:04.859 --> 01:55:08.958
a um cap on that provision that is in 25 509, which

01:55:08.970 --> 01:55:11.189
is the rule opened up by this rule making. So if we

01:55:11.199 --> 01:55:13.838
were going to um apply to such a change on the EC

01:55:13.899 --> 01:55:16.189
and put a cap on that, I would also recommend including

01:55:16.199 --> 01:55:18.989
something on the LC provision as well. However, you

01:55:19.000 --> 01:55:22.869
choose to, to move forward or just know that one vote

01:55:23.720 --> 01:55:27.060
we'll have a say at the end of this. And, and so

01:55:27.069 --> 01:55:29.250
so to clarify, I think we're not going to be changing

01:55:29.520 --> 01:55:33.208
anything, we will move forward as published. But to

01:55:33.220 --> 01:55:35.409
those that are listening, we're particularly interested

01:55:35.418 --> 01:55:38.668
in comments on whether or not uh when the uh emergency

01:55:38.680 --> 01:55:41.409
pricing program is in effect, if there should be a

01:55:41.418 --> 01:55:44.069
cap on how high the expenses that can be recovered

01:55:44.079 --> 01:55:47.270
are. And that's at the request of Commissioner McAdams

01:55:47.279 --> 01:55:50.989
and Warner is also noting that a similar lack of cap

01:55:51.000 --> 01:55:54.149
situation exists when the L cap is in effect. And so

01:55:54.159 --> 01:55:58.418
um comments on whether or not those two programs should

01:55:58.430 --> 01:56:01.569
be viewed separately or differently for these purposes

01:56:01.739 --> 01:56:03.128
uh would also be welcome.

01:56:07.939 --> 01:56:11.930
You have any more comments? Ok. Um (item:31:Motion to approve proposal) I would move to

01:56:11.939 --> 01:56:15.279
approve the proposal for publication. Uh Do I have

01:56:15.298 --> 01:56:18.529
a second? We have a motion in a second all in favor

01:56:18.539 --> 01:56:20.979
Say I I motion passes

01:56:23.338 --> 01:56:28.949
(item:32:Circuit Segmentation Study - Discussion, possible action, Proposed Order)  next up is item number 32. Project number 55182. Regarding

01:56:28.958 --> 01:56:32.359
the circuit segmentation study, uh Sheila, do we have

01:56:32.369 --> 01:56:34.859
anyone from the public signed up to speak on item number

01:56:34.869 --> 01:56:38.609
32? No, ma'am. Ok, David. Could you please provide

01:56:38.619 --> 01:56:42.989
a brief overview of the draft order? Yes, ma'am. Uh

01:56:43.000 --> 01:56:47.199
This is another important piece of legislation. This

01:56:47.208 --> 01:56:50.548
came out of our sunset bill. It was section 13 that

01:56:50.560 --> 01:56:53.759
requires us to direct transmission and distribution

01:56:53.770 --> 01:56:56.319
utilities to perform a circuit segmentation study.

01:56:56.439 --> 01:56:59.250
I think this is an area of high interest um because

01:56:59.259 --> 01:57:03.470
you know, the more segmented our distribution circuits

01:57:03.479 --> 01:57:06.708
are the more flexibility that these entities have to

01:57:06.720 --> 01:57:12.140
rotate Load during loaded situations. This was a, this

01:57:12.149 --> 01:57:14.100
was a bit of a tricky wicket because it's not a rule

01:57:14.109 --> 01:57:17.119
making. And so Connie had the insight that we should

01:57:17.128 --> 01:57:19.798
publish a draft order a few weeks ago, which we did

01:57:19.810 --> 01:57:23.239
we got a lot of good feedback. From some of the participants

01:57:23.289 --> 01:57:26.069
and we've been working with ICO. So compared to the

01:57:26.079 --> 01:57:31.359
draft, we, we made a few adjustments, but some of the

01:57:31.680 --> 01:57:33.779
some of the things that I would highlight is commission

01:57:33.789 --> 01:57:36.509
staff is recommending approach uh compared to what

01:57:36.520 --> 01:57:40.458
some commenters might have uh recommended where we

01:57:40.470 --> 01:57:44.029
we view that the inquiry into circuit segmentation

01:57:44.168 --> 01:57:47.668
is important but also contain a lot of potentially

01:57:47.680 --> 01:57:51.579
sensitive information. And so in line with the apparent

01:57:51.588 --> 01:57:55.489
legislative intent that the the core underlying data

01:57:55.500 --> 01:57:59.770
gets turned in, uh a summary report is going to be

01:57:59.779 --> 01:58:01.520
filed and then commission staff has the ability to

01:58:01.529 --> 01:58:04.779
request access to additional information if they need

01:58:04.789 --> 01:58:07.628
to advise the commission on any legislative recommendations

01:58:07.640 --> 01:58:11.399
you guys have. Um So that is the approach we're recommending

01:58:11.409 --> 01:58:13.819
so that we're sort of balancing public transparency

01:58:13.829 --> 01:58:16.329
concerns and security concerns. And we put in sort

01:58:16.338 --> 01:58:19.470
of an escape patch where if the publicly available

01:58:19.479 --> 01:58:22.509
information isn't sufficient staff will recommend to

01:58:22.520 --> 01:58:25.739
you guys that additional information be made public

01:58:25.750 --> 01:58:28.418
And so we really, we want to thread the needle, but

01:58:28.430 --> 01:58:31.588
outside of the rule making process, we try to limit

01:58:31.600 --> 01:58:33.609
our recommendations to interpreting the words on the

01:58:33.619 --> 01:58:37.720
page and the statute rather than um constructing and

01:58:37.729 --> 01:58:41.319
designing a lot of new requirements. And so uh another

01:58:41.329 --> 01:58:44.829
another key change that we made is there was a recognition

01:58:44.838 --> 01:58:47.079
by some of the commenters that on the transmission

01:58:47.088 --> 01:58:52.128
level, ERCOT has unique insight into, you know, requirements

01:58:52.140 --> 01:58:55.770
and also reliability of the system. And so we've provided

01:58:56.119 --> 01:58:59.029
a, the ability for us to share and get advice from

01:58:59.100 --> 01:59:03.439
ERCOT when we're doing our analysis. But also when

01:59:03.449 --> 01:59:06.439
the individual utilities are doing their reports, they

01:59:06.449 --> 01:59:09.470
can submit the transmission component to ERCOT for

01:59:09.479 --> 01:59:13.259
sort of an advisory comments from ERCOT on what whatever

01:59:13.270 --> 01:59:15.640
they may seem. So these can be topics or liability

01:59:15.649 --> 01:59:18.189
topics. And the reason I wanted to mention this specifically

01:59:18.199 --> 01:59:20.668
is, you know, we had a lot on this open meeting, so

01:59:20.680 --> 01:59:24.470
we had to pivot and ERCOT requested at least 60 days

01:59:25.430 --> 01:59:27.560
uh that they would get the information 60 days before

01:59:27.569 --> 01:59:29.220
the deadline. So they would have time to give adequate

01:59:29.229 --> 01:59:32.069
review. We didn't have time to check with all the stakeholders

01:59:32.079 --> 01:59:34.079
on whether or not this would limit their ability to

01:59:34.088 --> 01:59:36.600
successfully complete their studies in time. And so

01:59:36.609 --> 01:59:39.069
we made this a permissive requirement. They may consult

01:59:39.079 --> 01:59:41.399
with our, but I would say that our recommendation would

01:59:41.409 --> 01:59:45.029
be that you take this, this this option if your timing

01:59:45.039 --> 01:59:47.939
allows because uh you know, getting better informed

01:59:48.208 --> 01:59:51.390
um you know, the, the better informed that this study

01:59:51.399 --> 01:59:54.180
is the, the more helpful it's gonna be uh for us in

01:59:54.189 --> 01:59:56.270
the tail end so that we can make coherent recommendations

01:59:56.279 --> 01:59:58.500
to the legislature on this topic. Uh Do you have any

01:59:58.509 --> 01:59:59.180
questions?

02:00:02.289 --> 02:00:04.329
(item:32:Commissioner Glotfelty shares thoughts on circuit segmentation) I have a couple of thoughts, not necessarily questions

02:00:04.338 --> 02:00:10.418
And that is Circuit Segmentation is, is this is intended

02:00:10.810 --> 02:00:15.789
I think to provide flexibility to the transmission

02:00:15.798 --> 02:00:20.319
distribution owner when they are ordered to shed loaded

02:00:20.329 --> 02:00:23.560
how can we do that allow critical facilities to remain

02:00:23.569 --> 02:00:27.548
online while we're still meeting the obligations of

02:00:27.689 --> 02:00:31.470
the loaded orders and ensure that the system remains

02:00:31.479 --> 02:00:35.378
reliable. And what I would say is I think there are

02:00:35.489 --> 02:00:39.699
other technologies that are on the system already that

02:00:39.708 --> 02:00:42.779
should be taken into consideration when these things

02:00:42.789 --> 02:00:47.418
happen. So rec closure and ami and all sorts of things

02:00:47.430 --> 02:00:51.489
that have been part of the fabric of the system for

02:00:51.500 --> 02:00:55.020
for many years that the utilities when they're doing

02:00:55.029 --> 02:00:57.918
these studies should take those into consideration

02:00:58.250 --> 02:01:01.770
not look at this as just a today forward, but look

02:01:01.779 --> 02:01:03.930
at some of the things that they have done in the past

02:01:03.939 --> 02:01:07.588
and see how they play in may be modified, maybe help

02:01:07.600 --> 02:01:09.829
different resources, micro grids and things at the

02:01:09.838 --> 02:01:14.819
distribution level to allow more, more segmentation

02:01:14.829 --> 02:01:20.569
more loaded in emergency situations. But allowing those

02:01:20.579 --> 02:01:22.789
that might have micro grids or distributed resources

02:01:22.798 --> 02:01:25.899
to continue to operate for the benefit of the system

02:01:25.909 --> 02:01:30.119
So I just hope that uh that we can um look at

02:01:30.128 --> 02:01:32.039
that and when we, when we get to the end of this

02:01:32.048 --> 02:01:34.319
process and we get to the evaluation of the actual

02:01:34.329 --> 02:01:37.909
plans. Um note that we'll be looking at that. So

02:01:40.399 --> 02:01:43.409
(item:32:Commissioner McAdams on potential benefits for resiliency) yeah, just, just from my perspective, madam chair members

02:01:43.418 --> 02:01:48.470
um I I think the PFP is, is a great uh good

02:01:48.479 --> 02:01:51.859
to go. Um I, I would say that I think it's unfortunate

02:01:51.869 --> 02:01:55.619
that the segmentation policy is, is really just applying

02:01:55.890 --> 02:02:01.668
to our investor owned utilities. Um I, I think it has

02:02:01.699 --> 02:02:05.899
uh positive, it could have positive ramifications for

02:02:06.208 --> 02:02:08.338
the reliability and resiliency of these systems. They

02:02:08.350 --> 02:02:11.029
they are not mutually exclusive resiliency in this

02:02:11.039 --> 02:02:14.548
context, segmentation would help in that effort. And

02:02:14.560 --> 02:02:17.819
I, I think uh electric cooperatives and municipal utilities

02:02:17.829 --> 02:02:19.909
would benefit from that as well. But I understand the

02:02:19.918 --> 02:02:24.119
limitations of the law and um and how it was written

02:02:24.378 --> 02:02:28.310
So uh just wanted to throw my two cents in there and

02:02:28.319 --> 02:02:31.500
and on, on that point, if I may, uh we really want

02:02:31.509 --> 02:02:34.100
to make sure that, you know, not every member of the

02:02:34.109 --> 02:02:38.829
legislature is gonna understand um uh every aspect

02:02:38.838 --> 02:02:41.279
of the way our market works. And so 11 element that

02:02:41.289 --> 02:02:44.529
we included in this is for tt us that have mo us

02:02:44.539 --> 02:02:47.560
and co-ops that are under them, we want them, even

02:02:47.569 --> 02:02:49.520
though even though they're not part of the segmentation

02:02:49.529 --> 02:02:53.100
exercise, we wanted a report on what who those entities

02:02:53.109 --> 02:02:55.009
were. So that when we compile our report, we can be

02:02:55.020 --> 02:02:59.989
very clear about this is what is, this is, what is

02:03:00.000 --> 02:03:02.350
and isn't included in this report. And so that they

02:03:02.359 --> 02:03:04.548
don't, so that they have an accurate sense of the,

02:03:04.560 --> 02:03:07.539
the depth and breadth of the study. Um And that, you

02:03:07.548 --> 02:03:09.890
know, like this percentage of megawatts is done by

02:03:09.899 --> 02:03:12.390
mou and co-op. So it's not represented in this study

02:03:12.399 --> 02:03:15.220
or whatever. And so we want to provide crystal clear

02:03:15.229 --> 02:03:16.909
recommendations with regard to that. I mean, that's

02:03:16.918 --> 02:03:19.000
that's great because I have a cousin that's on the

02:03:19.009 --> 02:03:22.739
tail end of this, a, a rather spindly distribution

02:03:22.750 --> 02:03:25.779
system that's managed by a co-op but ultimately served

02:03:25.789 --> 02:03:29.970
by um an A P transmission system. So uh there, there

02:03:29.979 --> 02:03:34.189
is some, um there's an integrated framework there uh

02:03:34.199 --> 02:03:36.180
that everybody has to lean on. So I think that's a

02:03:36.189 --> 02:03:41.189
great way to approach it. Thank you some great discussion

02:03:41.199 --> 02:03:44.079
(item:32:Motion for order consistent with staff recommendation) And with that, I would move to issue an order consistent

02:03:44.088 --> 02:03:46.588
with staff's recommendation. Do you have a second?

02:03:48.079 --> 02:03:51.759
The motion in a second, all in favor. Say I I motion

02:03:51.770 --> 02:03:52.548
passes

02:03:54.739 --> 02:04:00.569
(item:33:Transmission and Distribution System Resiliency - Proposal) next up is item number 33. Project number 55250, the

02:04:00.579 --> 02:04:03.699
commission's rule making for transmission and distribution

02:04:03.708 --> 02:04:07.479
system, resiliency plans. Sheila, do we have anyone

02:04:07.489 --> 02:04:10.850
from the public signed up to speak on item number 33

02:04:11.140 --> 02:04:16.369
Yes, ma'am. One person to speak Don Brown. Ok.

02:04:23.168 --> 02:04:25.060
I would like to pass this uh to the commissioner.

02:04:31.458 --> 02:04:34.949
Good morning. It's your way to get the microphone.

02:04:35.128 --> 02:04:38.659
There you go. If you could please state your name and

02:04:38.668 --> 02:04:42.520
your affiliation. Thank you. Um My name is Don Brown

02:04:42.890 --> 02:04:45.958
I'm a 35 year resident here in Austin, Texas and I'm

02:04:45.970 --> 02:04:51.060
here testifying on behalf of myself. Um the following

02:04:51.069 --> 02:04:55.149
what I want to submit to testimony is a letter that

02:04:55.310 --> 02:04:58.939
we are sending, I am sending to Governor Abbott in

02:04:58.949 --> 02:05:07.009
regards to the resiliency of the grid. So we're working

02:05:07.020 --> 02:05:11.100
with a large grassroots organization in Texas to give

02:05:11.109 --> 02:05:15.899
the governor and the PUC support on working on resiliency

02:05:15.909 --> 02:05:17.829
So we want to have your back on this. We want to

02:05:17.838 --> 02:05:21.338
participate in it and we're here to build that relationship

02:05:21.350 --> 02:05:24.310
with you. So I wanted to give you this letter, He gets

02:05:24.319 --> 02:05:26.539
it on Monday. You get it today.

02:05:28.329 --> 02:05:31.270
Dear Governor Abbott. I'm writing you today with a

02:05:31.279 --> 02:05:33.970
sense of urgency and deep concern. Considering the

02:05:33.979 --> 02:05:37.520
state of our Texas power grid. Recent reports from

02:05:37.529 --> 02:05:40.989
the Department of Energy have revealed a staggering

02:05:41.000 --> 02:05:46.579
1900% increase in vandalism and sabotage to the Texas

02:05:46.588 --> 02:05:51.430
power grid since 2017. In just the first six months

02:05:51.439 --> 02:05:55.378
of 2023 there have been 19 reported events in Texas

02:05:55.390 --> 02:05:59.939
alone. According to ERCOT reliability report, vandalism

02:05:59.949 --> 02:06:03.890
and sabotage account for 35% of the grid events from

02:06:03.899 --> 02:06:08.520
2018 to 2022. These numbers are alarming and demand

02:06:08.529 --> 02:06:12.140
immediate attention. In addition to these concerns

02:06:12.149 --> 02:06:14.770
we must also acknowledge the potential risk posed to

02:06:14.779 --> 02:06:17.930
us by individuals from foreign adversaries that are

02:06:17.939 --> 02:06:22.770
entering across the southern border. It's estimated

02:06:22.779 --> 02:06:26.009
and there are reports, numerous reports that hundreds

02:06:26.020 --> 02:06:31.119
if not thousands of military age men from countries

02:06:31.128 --> 02:06:34.298
like China have been crossing into Texas. In fact,

02:06:34.310 --> 02:06:38.239
in June, this comes from the House Intelligence Committee

02:06:38.418 --> 02:06:42.390
140 individuals on the terrorist watch list have been

02:06:42.399 --> 02:06:45.140
apprehended crossing the southern border in fiscal

02:06:45.149 --> 02:06:49.989
year 2023. Furthermore, there's a severe shortage of

02:06:50.000 --> 02:06:52.479
transformers worldwide. I'm sure you all are aware

02:06:52.489 --> 02:06:56.458
of that with an order to lead delivery time on the

02:06:56.470 --> 02:07:00.479
very large transformers of 4 to 6 years. Now is what

02:07:00.489 --> 02:07:02.560
I'm hearing from the people that are advising the Pentagon

02:07:03.970 --> 02:07:08.418
that scarcity leaves us our large power stations vulnerable

02:07:08.430 --> 02:07:11.289
to coordinated military style attacks as we have witnessed

02:07:11.298 --> 02:07:14.899
in Moore County, North Carolina that was in December

02:07:15.100 --> 02:07:19.720
and then in Metcalfe, California, regrettably, our

02:07:19.729 --> 02:07:22.418
utility companies have consistently blocked all efforts

02:07:22.430 --> 02:07:27.520
to legislate and establish a standard security standards

02:07:27.739 --> 02:07:31.029
including the most recent Senate Bill 3 30 which we

02:07:31.039 --> 02:07:34.289
were supporting all through this session. It's crucial

02:07:34.298 --> 02:07:38.000
that we overcome these obstacles and prioritize security

02:07:38.009 --> 02:07:41.500
of our power grid. If I may just continue just to finish

02:07:41.509 --> 02:07:45.029
the letter, the emergency requires immediate attention

02:07:45.039 --> 02:07:48.789
before it escalates into a full blown disaster. Hb

02:07:49.020 --> 02:07:54.319
25 55 focuses on resiliency enhancements. It is a step

02:07:54.329 --> 02:07:56.668
in the right direction. We strongly support this,

02:07:58.390 --> 02:08:01.619
the Public Utility Commission. We believe the Public

02:08:01.628 --> 02:08:04.259
Utility Commission has the opportunity to fast track

02:08:04.270 --> 02:08:06.470
some of these projects on. So there's 10 things on

02:08:06.479 --> 02:08:11.708
that list in 25 55 intelligently go after these, what

02:08:11.720 --> 02:08:15.298
are the most critical assets and let's fast track them

02:08:15.680 --> 02:08:17.918
So, Governor Abbott, I have faith in your leadership

02:08:17.930 --> 02:08:20.119
and commitment to the great state of Texas. I urge

02:08:20.128 --> 02:08:22.600
you to seize this moment to protect the Texas power

02:08:22.609 --> 02:08:26.310
grid, our citizens and our future prosperity and that's

02:08:26.319 --> 02:08:31.750
what we are submitting. So thank you very much for

02:08:31.759 --> 02:08:34.560
your time. If there's any questions on the back, if

02:08:34.569 --> 02:08:39.659
you see the last page, there's the, the report that

02:08:39.668 --> 02:08:43.739
you received, you all produced and received that ERCOT

02:08:43.750 --> 02:08:49.890
report that shows the 35% vandalism and and um and

02:08:49.899 --> 02:08:52.798
sabotage events that happened in the last five years

02:08:54.048 --> 02:08:57.310
But the real trend is that is the graph above it because

02:08:57.319 --> 02:08:59.489
that's what's really happening. We should be looking

02:08:59.500 --> 02:09:04.149
at trend lines, not, not pie graphs on this. This is

02:09:04.159 --> 02:09:06.250
what's actually happening. The number of events is

02:09:06.259 --> 02:09:10.208
going up, it's going up at an alarming rate. So thank

02:09:10.220 --> 02:09:12.298
you very much for your time. I really appreciate it

02:09:12.310 --> 02:09:14.489
and I appreciate so much what you all are doing.

02:09:16.020 --> 02:09:17.229
Thank you for being here.

02:09:18.949 --> 02:09:19.369
Yeah,

02:09:22.128 --> 02:09:24.798
David, could you please provide a brief overview of

02:09:24.810 --> 02:09:28.220
the proposal for publication? Yes, ma'am. Before you

02:09:28.229 --> 02:09:33.449
is a proposal for publication. Um uh Before you start

02:09:33.958 --> 02:09:37.109
chairman, sorry to interrupt. Um Let's bring up. Can

02:09:37.119 --> 02:09:40.668
we bring up the pro item number 34 project number 55407

02:09:42.189 --> 02:09:44.899
Oh, I'm sorry, am I on the wrong one?

02:09:47.409 --> 02:09:48.458
Sorry, go ahead.

02:09:50.378 --> 02:09:51.298
The uh

02:09:52.878 --> 02:09:54.750
sorry. This is before,

02:09:57.470 --> 02:10:01.189
before, before us is uh staffs recommend publication

02:10:01.220 --> 02:10:05.270
which implements House Bill 25 55 from this legislative

02:10:05.279 --> 02:10:07.720
session. We think this is a really important piece

02:10:07.729 --> 02:10:10.220
of legislation and it falls into sort of a cluster

02:10:10.229 --> 02:10:14.310
of efforts that we have um to uh enhance the uh you

02:10:14.319 --> 02:10:16.569
know, resilience of our system. This includes the circuit

02:10:16.579 --> 02:10:19.390
segmentation study order that we just did. This includes

02:10:19.399 --> 02:10:22.449
our ongoing efforts on long lead time in mobile generation

02:10:22.458 --> 02:10:26.140
facilities. Um And this includes this bill and others

02:10:26.350 --> 02:10:29.659
And so, uh one thing that I wanted to highlight this

02:10:29.668 --> 02:10:32.319
was this was a particularly challenging draft to pull

02:10:32.329 --> 02:10:34.708
together. And we, you know, we've been consulting with

02:10:34.739 --> 02:10:38.470
national labs working with stakeholders. We had a workshop

02:10:38.479 --> 02:10:41.048
already with a lot of good inputs from stakeholders

02:10:41.060 --> 02:10:44.250
But just to help focus comments, I want to say that

02:10:44.539 --> 02:10:47.958
the challenge, the challenge with uh doing resiliency

02:10:47.970 --> 02:10:51.369
is there's not a uniform definition of resiliency.

02:10:51.378 --> 02:10:53.079
And by that, I don't mean I don't mean here, I mean

02:10:53.088 --> 02:10:54.949
anywhere in the nation, everyone's working on this

02:10:55.109 --> 02:10:58.569
and there's not uniform metrics for evaluating resiliency

02:10:58.850 --> 02:11:03.600
and every the topology and system characteristics and

02:11:03.609 --> 02:11:07.390
resiliency events that each of our tt us and distribution

02:11:07.970 --> 02:11:12.140
utilities face are different. And so the approach that

02:11:12.149 --> 02:11:14.159
this takes is,

02:11:15.819 --> 02:11:18.128
you know, I'm not an engineer, climatologist or any

02:11:18.140 --> 02:11:20.479
of those things. And so if staff, staff tried to define

02:11:20.489 --> 02:11:22.909
all of the events, it would probably not be ideal.

02:11:22.918 --> 02:11:26.199
And so instead the approach we took is where the, you

02:11:26.208 --> 02:11:29.430
know, each utility needs to come up or this is permissive

02:11:29.439 --> 02:11:31.539
But if they come up with a resiliency plan, they would

02:11:31.548 --> 02:11:33.789
do that by looking at their system comprehensively

02:11:33.798 --> 02:11:37.668
and identifying the resiliency events that are most

02:11:37.824 --> 02:11:40.673
threatening to their system and would most likely lead

02:11:40.685 --> 02:11:43.854
to, you know, loaded events or not legit even sorry

02:11:43.864 --> 02:11:45.543
that would lead to disruptions in their ability to

02:11:45.555 --> 02:11:49.034
deliver power. And so we asked that the utilities define

02:11:49.043 --> 02:11:53.734
the events and identify solutions to those events and

02:11:53.744 --> 02:11:56.904
those solutions will have to take the form or fall

02:11:56.914 --> 02:12:00.225
in the predefined categories in the legislation. And

02:12:00.234 --> 02:12:02.805
so that does include speaking to Mr Brown's testimony

02:12:02.814 --> 02:12:05.154
that does include both physical and cyber security

02:12:05.164 --> 02:12:08.250
So he mentioned that in the last however many years

02:12:08.259 --> 02:12:11.279
there's been 19 events. And so if those were in the

02:12:11.489 --> 02:12:13.319
territory of one of our utilities, maybe they would

02:12:13.329 --> 02:12:15.699
say these are the sorts of events that our resiliency

02:12:15.708 --> 02:12:19.439
plan is designed to address, but it may also be hurricanes

02:12:19.449 --> 02:12:22.500
of a certain category or wildfires or whatever, whatever

02:12:22.509 --> 02:12:25.579
the the critical events are. So they, they define,

02:12:25.588 --> 02:12:28.229
they define the resiliency event, they bring us their

02:12:28.239 --> 02:12:32.494
best proposal for how to solve it. They explain why

02:12:32.503 --> 02:12:35.213
and provide evidence for why that is better than other

02:12:35.225 --> 02:12:38.395
alternatives that are out there. And they recommend

02:12:38.404 --> 02:12:42.534
evaluation metrics because the way you would evaluate

02:12:42.694 --> 02:12:45.454
the way an elevated substation responds to flooding

02:12:45.463 --> 02:12:47.814
is different than the way you would evaluate a wild

02:12:47.824 --> 02:12:50.875
wildfire protection measure or cyber security event

02:12:52.194 --> 02:12:56.418
And so, you know that that is basically the layout

02:12:56.430 --> 02:12:58.859
it is going to be the, we put it on the utilities

02:12:58.869 --> 02:13:02.548
to define the problems and bring solutions. And then

02:13:02.560 --> 02:13:05.259
the commission's role will be in the course of 180

02:13:05.270 --> 02:13:08.628
day proceedings to evaluate to make sure that the evidence

02:13:08.640 --> 02:13:13.338
in support of their proposals and solutions is sufficient

02:13:13.350 --> 02:13:16.569
with the utilities carrying the burden of proof in

02:13:16.579 --> 02:13:20.759
these provisions. And so, um I, I think those are the

02:13:20.770 --> 02:13:23.289
points that I want to highlight at this stage. And

02:13:23.298 --> 02:13:25.979
I believe that there's a, a memo filed in this, this

02:13:25.989 --> 02:13:26.430
one as well.

02:13:28.180 --> 02:13:31.039
There is. (item:33:Commissioner McAdams lays out memo) And Commissioner Mick Adams, uh you filed

02:13:31.048 --> 02:13:32.958
a memo. Would you please lay out your memo? Thank you

02:13:32.970 --> 02:13:36.588
madam chair members. Um In, in my memo, I made some

02:13:36.600 --> 02:13:38.750
sue suggested edits. And first of all, I'd like to

02:13:38.759 --> 02:13:41.909
thank thank David and his team uh commission staff

02:13:41.918 --> 02:13:44.890
for entertaining the, the dia the level of dialogue

02:13:44.899 --> 02:13:48.789
that they have and formulating the PFP. Um My edits

02:13:48.798 --> 02:13:51.060
were filed and I hope that they will help the commission

02:13:51.069 --> 02:13:54.109
to better understand and identify where resiliency

02:13:54.119 --> 02:13:57.989
needs exist. Um And how to better address them in many

02:13:58.000 --> 02:14:00.569
ways. This endeavor is going to provide a new way for

02:14:00.579 --> 02:14:05.859
us to look um oh at our transmission and distribution

02:14:05.869 --> 02:14:08.619
system and my hope is that it leads to more dependable

02:14:08.628 --> 02:14:15.500
grid for everyone. Overall, my memo suggested modifications

02:14:15.668 --> 02:14:20.020
to help provide a defined range of potential outcomes

02:14:20.069 --> 02:14:24.699
which may allow us to understand how the overall goal

02:14:24.708 --> 02:14:27.500
of resiliency may be achieved as a part of accomplishing

02:14:27.509 --> 02:14:31.680
these plans and implementing what they suggest changes

02:14:31.689 --> 02:14:35.539
to their systems. And ultimately, it's, it's better

02:14:36.048 --> 02:14:38.659
it is better for us on the back end or our successors

02:14:38.668 --> 02:14:40.890
at the commission to understand. OK. Here's what they

02:14:40.899 --> 02:14:43.798
were thinking at the time when they began this, this

02:14:43.810 --> 02:14:47.479
journey of enhancing their system. And this is what

02:14:47.489 --> 02:14:50.600
success may otherwise look like. They may not hit it

02:14:50.609 --> 02:14:53.418
They may not achieve that exactly. But at least we'll

02:14:53.430 --> 02:14:55.298
have a better understanding of what they were thinking

02:14:55.310 --> 02:14:57.470
and, and how they were going to approach it and where

02:14:57.479 --> 02:15:01.729
they ultimately hoped to end. And with that, I'd entertain

02:15:01.739 --> 02:15:03.000
any, any questions.

02:15:06.259 --> 02:15:09.600
No, I'm (item:33:Commissioner Glotfelty comments in support of memo) I'm appreciative that you uh that you did this

02:15:09.628 --> 02:15:13.369
um this memo, I think the additions are in line with

02:15:13.378 --> 02:15:18.708
my thinking. Um I would say that um over the last 25

02:15:18.720 --> 02:15:22.609
years in this industry, we've uh we've come to believe

02:15:22.619 --> 02:15:25.979
and understand that reliability and now resiliency

02:15:26.479 --> 02:15:29.708
is driven by not just one action, but it's layers of

02:15:29.720 --> 02:15:34.279
actions, layers of technologies and layers of efforts

02:15:34.289 --> 02:15:37.930
by operators and others to make our system more resilient

02:15:37.939 --> 02:15:41.770
So this isn't the utility just looking today and saying

02:15:41.819 --> 02:15:45.470
well, we can put on X to make the system more resilient

02:15:45.479 --> 02:15:48.500
It could be that. But again, like in the last in the

02:15:48.509 --> 02:15:51.708
segmentation discussion, it could be the discussion

02:15:51.720 --> 02:15:57.689
of how these advanced meters that we have spent hundreds

02:15:57.699 --> 02:16:01.390
of millions of dollars on in this state can encourage

02:16:01.399 --> 02:16:06.048
additional resiliency. It is how other technologies

02:16:06.060 --> 02:16:08.298
that are on the system, the rate payers have already

02:16:08.310 --> 02:16:12.029
paid for can be part of this system going forward for

02:16:12.039 --> 02:16:16.180
resiliency. I'm just hopeful that when these plans

02:16:16.189 --> 02:16:19.899
are filed that on the distribution system specifically

02:16:20.829 --> 02:16:25.750
that the technologies that are there that are available

02:16:25.759 --> 02:16:29.100
may not be deployed just by the utilities, but by market

02:16:29.109 --> 02:16:33.519
participants can be woven into this discussion and

02:16:33.530 --> 02:16:37.549
woven into these plans to allow for them to improve

02:16:37.558 --> 02:16:41.629
resiliency or be additive to the resiliency of the

02:16:41.638 --> 02:16:46.049
of the TDUs. The one other, I think I have two more

02:16:46.058 --> 02:16:49.540
things, but one is resiliency. Obviously, this is an

02:16:49.549 --> 02:16:54.259
issue that uh we, we don't have our definition. Resiliency

02:16:54.269 --> 02:16:59.769
is a in the ERCOT transmission planning process is

02:16:59.790 --> 02:17:04.250
a additive kicker that we could utilize to help um

02:17:04.370 --> 02:17:07.968
make a non uneconomic project economic. If we think

02:17:07.979 --> 02:17:12.968
it will be additive for resiliency, and therefore,

02:17:12.979 --> 02:17:16.058
I think that we can't skimp on the transmission resiliency

02:17:16.069 --> 02:17:18.049
piece of it. I know there were a lot of comments that's

02:17:18.058 --> 02:17:21.679
like a lot of this is at the distribution. But if we're

02:17:21.709 --> 02:17:24.899
if we're using that as a metric in planning, then there

02:17:24.909 --> 02:17:28.929
is definitely a viable uh reason for, for it to be

02:17:28.940 --> 02:17:33.409
here. Um And then uh

02:17:35.599 --> 02:17:37.588
I think that's all. I, I think I did have one other

02:17:37.599 --> 02:17:39.899
thing but it obviously wasn't that important because

02:17:39.909 --> 02:17:43.959
I didn't say it. So with that, I'm, I'm supportive

02:17:43.968 --> 02:17:48.399
of the uh, of the proposal for publication and I'm

02:17:48.409 --> 02:17:51.659
eager to get these plans in action and get them. Oh

02:17:51.668 --> 02:17:55.049
no, I know what I was gonna say here. Um, I'm appreciative

02:17:55.058 --> 02:17:57.569
that you're letting the utilities define the problem

02:17:57.739 --> 02:18:02.269
because of this issue. We've got, we're a big state

02:18:02.280 --> 02:18:04.190
We've got different problems all across the state.

02:18:04.649 --> 02:18:07.989
If we say resilience is underground and transmission

02:18:08.000 --> 02:18:11.879
lines or distribution lines, guess what, underground

02:18:11.888 --> 02:18:14.349
lines at the distribution level is not good when you

02:18:14.360 --> 02:18:18.638
have storm surge of hurricanes, saltwater intrusion

02:18:18.649 --> 02:18:21.718
isn't good for transmission power systems underground

02:18:21.729 --> 02:18:26.659
So letting them define this will allow us to have some

02:18:26.668 --> 02:18:29.838
understanding of what they're specifically trying to

02:18:29.849 --> 02:18:33.009
TAC rather than a blanket proposal across the entire

02:18:33.019 --> 02:18:37.069
state. Florida power like underground. Well, they do

02:18:37.218 --> 02:18:40.790
and there are some areas where they do it. Substations

02:18:40.799 --> 02:18:44.418
are above ground, Florida. Power and light primary

02:18:44.429 --> 02:18:49.299
layer of resilience is utilizing concrete poles at

02:18:49.308 --> 02:18:54.718
the distribution level. So they've spent uh hundreds

02:18:54.729 --> 02:18:58.629
of millions of dollars over the last 10 years and putting

02:18:58.649 --> 02:19:01.659
concrete distribution poles in place in those areas

02:19:01.668 --> 02:19:04.349
that are prone to hurricanes so that if a conductor

02:19:04.360 --> 02:19:06.750
falls because of the winds of a hurricane or because

02:19:06.759 --> 02:19:10.599
of vegetation, the pole doesn't have to be replaced

02:19:10.860 --> 02:19:13.769
The conductor can just be restrung and that is a much

02:19:13.780 --> 02:19:14.759
quicker process.

02:19:16.549 --> 02:19:19.870
(item:33:Chairwoman Jackson comments in support of testimony) I think we've made a number of good points particularly

02:19:19.909 --> 02:19:22.360
I think the last point you made is how important it

02:19:22.370 --> 02:19:25.200
is. You know, for the folks who are boots on the ground

02:19:25.209 --> 02:19:30.280
to actually evaluate the risk and think of it in terms

02:19:30.290 --> 02:19:33.849
of, you know, that if you will worst case scenario

02:19:34.138 --> 02:19:37.944
and what are those mitigation measures that need to

02:19:37.954 --> 02:19:41.474
be put in place in order to address those? Recognizing

02:19:41.485 --> 02:19:45.065
that again, it's often not one thing. It's as you,

02:19:45.075 --> 02:19:48.325
as you stated, layers of things that we need to consider

02:19:48.334 --> 02:19:51.995
and also how they work, uh they work many times, you

02:19:52.004 --> 02:19:56.075
know, in in conjunction with one another. So recognizing

02:19:56.084 --> 02:19:58.625
that, you know, we have, you know, as staff has put

02:19:58.634 --> 02:20:02.174
together this kind of process in place to develop the

02:20:02.183 --> 02:20:05.079
plan. And then I think our hope is that, you know,

02:20:05.088 --> 02:20:07.700
as we move forward, recognizing that there is this

02:20:07.709 --> 02:20:11.399
diversity across Texas, but there also would be an

02:20:11.409 --> 02:20:15.290
opportunity for information sharing. And so as the

02:20:15.299 --> 02:20:18.569
plans are developed, you know, I would hope that, you

02:20:18.579 --> 02:20:21.468
know, people across the state will be cognizant of

02:20:21.479 --> 02:20:24.440
what is being developed and kind of ask that question

02:20:24.459 --> 02:20:26.769
you know, is, is this is, is this something that could

02:20:26.780 --> 02:20:30.700
be appropriate, you know, in, in my particular situation

02:20:30.709 --> 02:20:33.790
And and then uh the whole concept of develop, developing

02:20:33.799 --> 02:20:37.190
the metrics to determine, you know, how well you know

02:20:37.200 --> 02:20:40.918
these mitigation processes are performing and then

02:20:40.929 --> 02:20:43.750
this whole vein of, you know, putting this in place

02:20:43.759 --> 02:20:46.280
and having a process of continuous improvement. So

02:20:46.530 --> 02:20:50.659
um just so so important that we move forward. Uh because

02:20:50.668 --> 02:20:53.790
again, there's a growing expectation from the public

02:20:53.799 --> 02:21:00.079
from reliability, as well as resiliency and addressing

02:21:00.088 --> 02:21:02.819
this, you know, for the overall system. But again,

02:21:02.829 --> 02:21:05.418
recognizing the differences as we move forward, so

02:21:05.429 --> 02:21:09.530
I really wanna appreciate the help and the work that

02:21:09.540 --> 02:21:12.838
the staff has done and also kind of look forward to

02:21:12.849 --> 02:21:16.879
the work that the entities will do as they develop

02:21:16.888 --> 02:21:20.718
their plans. And so look forward to seeing them. (item:33:Commissioner Cobos comments general agreement) I

02:21:20.729 --> 02:21:22.519
don't know that I have a whole lot more to add. I

02:21:22.530 --> 02:21:25.599
in general agreement with all the comments made today

02:21:25.610 --> 02:21:29.479
I think resiliency obviously is a very important topic

02:21:29.489 --> 02:21:33.229
these days in every market across the country and probably

02:21:33.239 --> 02:21:36.329
globally is looking at it for, for one reason or another

02:21:36.739 --> 02:21:40.239
it's not defined. But I like the idea of putting in

02:21:40.250 --> 02:21:42.790
the utility hands of defining what resiliency means

02:21:42.799 --> 02:21:46.899
for their specific service territories and the challenges

02:21:46.909 --> 02:21:51.500
they may encounter in in those territories. Um I, I

02:21:51.610 --> 02:21:54.379
like the sort of general statement you made dude and

02:21:54.558 --> 02:21:57.009
and I think Commissioner Glotfelty alluded to is resiliency

02:21:57.019 --> 02:21:59.819
is woven into a lot of legislation that has been passed

02:21:59.829 --> 02:22:03.838
last session and this session, not not only the legislation

02:22:03.849 --> 02:22:07.530
um prompting this this effort, but also, you know,

02:22:07.540 --> 02:22:10.120
you have on site mobile DG, we have Senate Bill 12

02:22:10.129 --> 02:22:12.620
81 where we added a component of resiliency. I think

02:22:12.629 --> 02:22:15.519
it, it would be really helpful to sort of tie everything

02:22:15.530 --> 02:22:21.259
together. Um and, and look at it more broadly and holistically

02:22:21.269 --> 02:22:27.819
so that we're um not overlapping efforts but um optimizing

02:22:27.829 --> 02:22:31.040
and leveraging efforts on resiliency. Um because it

02:22:31.049 --> 02:22:33.929
could mean a whole lot of different measures as Commissioner

02:22:34.319 --> 02:22:35.989
Glotfelty mentioned, I mean, it could mean hardening

02:22:36.000 --> 02:22:38.129
the transmission system, but it could also mean adding

02:22:38.138 --> 02:22:41.259
a redundant transmission system, operation center if

02:22:41.269 --> 02:22:43.659
one goes down. And so there's a lot of different ways

02:22:43.668 --> 02:22:46.099
to look at it. And um, but I do think this is

02:22:46.110 --> 02:22:49.530
great and it's important that we continue to look at

02:22:49.540 --> 02:22:50.769
this very important issue and

02:22:54.308 --> 02:22:57.929
I have two votes, I think I had three. So you got

02:22:57.940 --> 02:23:00.579
mine and I think there was another important point

02:23:00.588 --> 02:23:02.750
that was made and that is that it's not always just

02:23:02.759 --> 02:23:05.940
physical assets, right? And so I would hope that in

02:23:05.950 --> 02:23:09.200
the plan that they're developed that we think not just

02:23:09.209 --> 02:23:12.750
about the physical asset, but also the opportunities

02:23:12.879 --> 02:23:15.940
through operations and all of the technology that's

02:23:15.950 --> 02:23:21.239
now available. And I think if Chuck is here, we should

02:23:21.250 --> 02:23:24.338
say cyber as well is an important risk and hopefully

02:23:24.349 --> 02:23:26.649
that is one that will be discussed as well. It can't

02:23:26.659 --> 02:23:29.940
be one that's too visible, but uh clearly it uh it's

02:23:29.950 --> 02:23:34.668
a risk that uh you know, is being addressed and will

02:23:34.679 --> 02:23:38.019
uh perhaps have a role in these forms. I will entertain

02:23:38.030 --> 02:23:42.540
a motion to approve the proposal for publication. Um

02:23:42.549 --> 02:23:46.899
consistent with Commissioner McAdams memo, I have a

02:23:46.909 --> 02:23:51.250
motion and a second all in favor say I I motion passes

02:23:52.620 --> 02:23:55.888
chairman if I if I can make sorry as I was listening

02:23:55.899 --> 02:23:58.959
to this discussion that it really emphasized in my

02:23:58.968 --> 02:24:01.209
mind how important defining these events is. And so

02:24:01.218 --> 02:24:03.459
I just wanted to make a note to commenters who are

02:24:03.468 --> 02:24:05.979
going to be comic on this. We put in a definition of

02:24:05.989 --> 02:24:09.360
resiliency event in this. And you know, whenever you're

02:24:09.370 --> 02:24:11.429
defining a concept as important as this blind, it's

02:24:11.440 --> 02:24:14.540
kind of scary. So I I just want to, what we think

02:24:14.549 --> 02:24:17.588
we were doing here was defining it broadly so that

02:24:17.599 --> 02:24:20.000
it covered weather events, cyber events, and physical

02:24:20.009 --> 02:24:23.759
events. But also we put in language about low frequency

02:24:23.769 --> 02:24:26.860
high impact event. And we clarified that not primarily

02:24:26.870 --> 02:24:29.519
associated with resource adequacy or delivering power

02:24:29.558 --> 02:24:32.989
to Load. And so that that was an attempt to distinguish

02:24:33.000 --> 02:24:37.144
resiliency from reliability, which is sort of related

02:24:37.263 --> 02:24:40.075
And that was also an attempt to distinguish resiliency

02:24:40.084 --> 02:24:42.444
on the transmission level from sort of the resource

02:24:42.454 --> 02:24:46.144
adequacy thing. But if the words that we used in terms

02:24:46.155 --> 02:24:48.325
of low frequency I impact or whatever are, are gonna

02:24:48.334 --> 02:24:52.474
be viewed as constraining, what should be a valuable

02:24:52.724 --> 02:24:55.995
tool in the resiliency tool kit I that making sure

02:24:56.004 --> 02:24:58.224
we get those words right so that the plans are not

02:24:58.235 --> 02:25:01.485
unduly restricted is important. So I in particular

02:25:01.495 --> 02:25:03.704
welcome comments on the definition of resiliency event

02:25:04.004 --> 02:25:07.638
um because it's a new definition and so I, I don't

02:25:07.649 --> 02:25:11.079
want it to tie anybody's hands later on. Ok, thank

02:25:11.088 --> 02:25:11.218
you.

02:25:13.149 --> 02:25:17.819
Um (item:34:Texas Backup Power Package Advisory Committee Rulemaking) Next up is item number 34 project number 55407.

02:25:17.838 --> 02:25:20.638
The commission's rule making for the Texas Backup Power

02:25:20.649 --> 02:25:23.879
Package Advisory Committee, Sheila, do we have anyone

02:25:23.888 --> 02:25:27.360
from the public signed up to speak on item number 34

02:25:27.370 --> 02:25:31.329
No, ma'am. Ok, David Gordon with uh PUC staff is here

02:25:31.338 --> 02:25:34.040
Um David, would you please provide a brief overview

02:25:34.049 --> 02:25:36.879
of the proposal for publication? Yes, thank you chair

02:25:36.888 --> 02:25:38.979
Jackson and good afternoon Commissioner David Gordon

02:25:38.989 --> 02:25:42.009
with commission staff. Uh This is staff's proposal

02:25:42.019 --> 02:25:45.879
of new rule 25.5 15 which would establish the Texas

02:25:45.888 --> 02:25:50.888
Backup Power Package Advisory Committee. Um This satisfies

02:25:50.899 --> 02:25:55.500
a requirement under SB2627 which is the Texas Energy

02:25:55.509 --> 02:25:59.599
Fund programs. Importantly, this committee will advise

02:25:59.610 --> 02:26:03.700
the commission on uh procedures and criteria to use

02:26:03.709 --> 02:26:06.870
in making loans and grants under that program. I want

02:26:06.879 --> 02:26:10.509
to clarify two bits of information on this rule. First

02:26:10.519 --> 02:26:13.804
of all, um this is a distinct advice committee from

02:26:13.815 --> 02:26:16.334
the legislative advisory committee that will be impaneled

02:26:16.343 --> 02:26:19.424
to advise on the loan and grant program in sub chapter

02:26:19.433 --> 02:26:24.155
a of chapter 34. Um And then second, this advisory

02:26:24.165 --> 02:26:27.405
committee will only make recommendations for criteria

02:26:27.415 --> 02:26:30.804
and procedures on the loan and grants programs. They

02:26:30.815 --> 02:26:33.204
are not going to make recommendations on individual

02:26:33.213 --> 02:26:38.179
projects that come up and application form. Um This

02:26:38.190 --> 02:26:40.918
rule is going to allow the executive director to uh

02:26:40.929 --> 02:26:44.129
select the members of the advisory committee um And

02:26:44.138 --> 02:26:47.379
then they will deliver reports as we anticipate um

02:26:47.479 --> 02:26:52.000
in October of next year. Um And before I open myself

02:26:52.009 --> 02:26:56.040
up to any questions, I just want to thank Floyd Mac

02:26:56.079 --> 02:27:00.120
uh and Connie for their help on this one. That's it

02:27:00.129 --> 02:27:00.879
over

02:27:03.620 --> 02:27:05.739
and commissioners just real quickly. I would add that

02:27:05.750 --> 02:27:09.009
the process we've envisioned for. This is very similar

02:27:09.019 --> 02:27:12.200
to what we did for Turk. The process that you approved

02:27:12.209 --> 02:27:14.739
for me to appoint Turk commission members.

02:27:16.379 --> 02:27:18.879
You give any thoughts on this one. (item:34:Motion to adopt proposal) I would move to

02:27:18.888 --> 02:27:21.558
adopt the proposal for publication. I have a 2nd 2nd

02:27:22.729 --> 02:27:25.540
all in favor. Say I I motion passes.

02:27:27.940 --> 02:27:31.030
I don't have anything for items 35 or 36.

02:27:32.540 --> 02:27:36.269
Uh (item:37:Information Related to the SPP Regional - Commissioner McAdams) Next up is item 37. Our project regarding information

02:27:36.280 --> 02:27:40.179
related to the Southwest Powerful Regional State Committee

02:27:40.190 --> 02:27:42.620
Um Sheila, do we have anyone from the public side that

02:27:42.629 --> 02:27:46.530
to speak on item 37 ma'am? Ok. Commissioner Mc Adams

02:27:46.540 --> 02:27:49.129
could you please provide us with an update? Absolutely

02:27:49.138 --> 02:27:52.579
Thank you, madam, chair members uh last week. Um losing

02:27:52.588 --> 02:27:55.058
track of time, but I believe it was last week, September

02:27:55.069 --> 02:27:58.388
7th and eighth, uh Southwest Power Pool, organized

02:27:58.399 --> 02:28:01.409
a resource Adequacy summit held in Dallas uh it was

02:28:01.418 --> 02:28:05.190
well attended, we had over 150 in person attendees

02:28:05.530 --> 02:28:09.058
Uh uh Commissioner Mark Christie was one of the uh

02:28:09.069 --> 02:28:14.058
headline attendees as well as Nr Ceo Jim Robb. Um They

02:28:14.069 --> 02:28:17.440
let off the summit with a panel discussion for which

02:28:17.450 --> 02:28:19.879
I was able to ask some questions as well as others

02:28:20.209 --> 02:28:22.549
Uh I, I thought the takeaway from that panel discussion

02:28:22.558 --> 02:28:26.479
was extremely enlightening. Um F has divided opinions

02:28:26.489 --> 02:28:31.110
on um II I think it's fair to say has divided opinions

02:28:31.120 --> 02:28:34.558
on the scope and capabilities of F to manage a fully

02:28:34.569 --> 02:28:39.338
integrated national grid system. Um And, and what that

02:28:39.599 --> 02:28:46.030
scope should ultimately look like. Um But they, they

02:28:46.040 --> 02:28:48.909
are aware that there's an interest to see a more assertive

02:28:49.030 --> 02:28:56.110
fork in um in opining and urging uh systems to make

02:28:56.120 --> 02:29:00.769
the grids more interconnected uh and integrated Jim

02:29:00.780 --> 02:29:04.588
Robb had uh fascinating answers to some questions about

02:29:04.599 --> 02:29:09.799
the scope of NR um I actually pressed him uh as you

02:29:09.808 --> 02:29:11.588
know, I I sort of set him up in a series of

02:29:11.599 --> 02:29:15.929
questions on what he believed no's role was. Um And

02:29:15.940 --> 02:29:18.870
I assumed that they were sort of like the chief architect

02:29:18.879 --> 02:29:22.649
or engineer of the bolt power system uh under the Federal

02:29:22.659 --> 02:29:26.909
Power Act. Um Jim said, no, we see ourselves more of

02:29:26.918 --> 02:29:30.009
an advisory role um which I thought given everything

02:29:30.019 --> 02:29:32.668
that we're talking about here, um the security of the

02:29:32.679 --> 02:29:37.549
bolt power system and uh and the, the distribution

02:29:37.558 --> 02:29:40.319
systems under that, I, I thought that was fascinating

02:29:40.329 --> 02:29:43.209
um especially in light of weatherization and all the

02:29:43.218 --> 02:29:45.229
other challenges that we're trying to overcome right

02:29:45.239 --> 02:29:51.079
now. Uh He did say that um and this was, this was

02:29:51.088 --> 02:29:54.819
thought provoking because I, I pressed him on the capabilities

02:29:54.829 --> 02:29:58.649
of the distribution system and uh the resiliency um

02:29:58.659 --> 02:30:02.280
segmentation aspects of it, how, how he views that

02:30:02.290 --> 02:30:04.579
as it relates to the bulk power system, he's like,

02:30:04.879 --> 02:30:09.129
and, and, and I think Christie took a more narrow view

02:30:09.138 --> 02:30:13.909
of, of how that can truly interact. But uh Jim Robb

02:30:13.918 --> 02:30:18.088
of Nr said, no, we are, we are seeing that the distribution

02:30:18.099 --> 02:30:21.834
system has inordinate effect on the bulk power system

02:30:21.843 --> 02:30:24.995
And so therefore, we must watch very closely what is

02:30:25.004 --> 02:30:27.034
being interconnected at distribution, what types of

02:30:27.043 --> 02:30:30.004
technologies they're keenly sensitive as ERCOT has

02:30:30.013 --> 02:30:32.963
alluded to, to inverter based technologies that are

02:30:32.974 --> 02:30:38.065
coming in and how resilient they are. Um It, it was

02:30:38.075 --> 02:30:42.700
a, it was a fantastic summit. Um Many urged uh either

02:30:42.709 --> 02:30:45.629
Southwest Power Pool or NR to have another summit,

02:30:45.729 --> 02:30:50.200
especially in light of several of the grids um evaluating

02:30:50.209 --> 02:30:53.229
the efficacy of their reliability standards and potential

02:30:53.239 --> 02:30:56.860
replacement. Um You know, there, there's, there's a

02:30:56.870 --> 02:30:59.280
strong prospect that something could be organized next

02:30:59.290 --> 02:31:04.138
spring. Uh This gathering took in um stakeholders,

02:31:04.149 --> 02:31:07.759
we had Dan Wood uh appear from ot and I was shocked

02:31:07.769 --> 02:31:10.588
because it was right after our e a two moment and he

02:31:10.599 --> 02:31:13.540
drove uh drove up early that morning and was able to

02:31:13.549 --> 02:31:18.899
speak. Ultimately, um a lot of the grids S OS PP, all

02:31:18.909 --> 02:31:22.280
others are learning from ERCOT experience. Uh They're

02:31:22.290 --> 02:31:26.540
trying to define what define the challenges associated

02:31:26.549 --> 02:31:29.179
with experience and how to overcome them in their own

02:31:29.190 --> 02:31:34.250
system uh under their own market designs. And uh II

02:31:34.259 --> 02:31:36.909
I tell you, it was, it was a great two days. The

02:31:36.918 --> 02:31:39.468
real team, the resource advocacy and leadership team

02:31:39.479 --> 02:31:43.190
met uh the day after the summit concluded and we took

02:31:43.200 --> 02:31:46.280
up performance based accreditation and expected Load

02:31:46.290 --> 02:31:49.129
carrying capabilities of all resources for which we're

02:31:49.138 --> 02:31:52.319
trying to cobble together a consistent proposal for

02:31:52.329 --> 02:31:55.899
F to consider next spring. But that will provide the

02:31:55.909 --> 02:31:59.468
foundation for SPPS, look at their reliability standard

02:31:59.479 --> 02:32:04.110
and the inputs of that review. Um It, it has required

02:32:04.120 --> 02:32:08.500
a great deal of compromise especially to uh solve assertions

02:32:08.509 --> 02:32:13.209
that um resources are being treated equitably and in

02:32:13.218 --> 02:32:15.489
a nondiscriminatory manner. These are all challenges

02:32:15.500 --> 02:32:20.679
that we have to overcome in our own laws. Um But I

02:32:20.690 --> 02:32:24.290
I think we're on a good path. It was uh it was

02:32:24.299 --> 02:32:26.638
fascinating two days happy to answer any questions

02:32:26.649 --> 02:32:31.299
But um I think we've all engaged with our f uh counterparts

02:32:31.308 --> 02:32:35.959
Commissioner Christie was sympathetic in that um in

02:32:35.968 --> 02:32:40.979
terms of Texas, uh Texas will come in under f jurisdiction

02:32:40.989 --> 02:32:44.159
when they're ready to. Um that, that was encouraging

02:32:44.168 --> 02:32:47.579
I didn't press him on that. He brought it up. Um But

02:32:47.668 --> 02:32:51.338
uh it, it, it was good to share insights with our counterparts

02:32:51.349 --> 02:32:56.049
in the rest of the country. And um it, it also highlighted

02:32:56.058 --> 02:32:59.190
that we're not alone. Um But we're, we're all moving

02:32:59.200 --> 02:33:01.159
in the same direction. It's a question of how fast

02:33:03.780 --> 02:33:07.120
I'm glad that that summit went. Well, I know you're

02:33:07.280 --> 02:33:09.540
part of the leadership team, put it together. I think

02:33:09.549 --> 02:33:13.888
it's great to have you lead that effort. I hope more

02:33:13.899 --> 02:33:16.739
more are needed. They're clearly needed. We need to

02:33:16.750 --> 02:33:19.838
get everybody together more often, especially in the

02:33:19.849 --> 02:33:24.718
Midwest. Um I think the Federal Federal vision, at

02:33:24.729 --> 02:33:26.899
least with the current administration is to make the

02:33:26.909 --> 02:33:30.549
Midwest the bread basket of renewable energy production

02:33:30.558 --> 02:33:33.129
And it's a question of how to make these systems work

02:33:33.138 --> 02:33:37.468
out, work within that uh under that overarching policy

02:33:37.479 --> 02:33:40.299
and then move that power to the Load centers of the

02:33:40.308 --> 02:33:44.168
east. Um Gonna be a lot of debate about that. Uh My

02:33:44.620 --> 02:33:48.030
was uh they had some interesting thoughts so Aubrey

02:33:48.159 --> 02:33:53.280
Uh Yeah. Yeah. Um He, he almost, I and I think it

02:33:53.290 --> 02:33:57.329
was an inadvertent uh assertion that our policy on

02:33:57.338 --> 02:34:01.530
um interconnection prioritization for dispatch was

02:34:01.540 --> 02:34:04.838
discriminatory in nature. And I I assuage that concern

02:34:05.259 --> 02:34:09.959
um in that we had worked a lot to try to solve

02:34:10.120 --> 02:34:13.110
the, the problem of any type of uh perception that

02:34:13.120 --> 02:34:16.489
it was discriminatory and that uh get aligned with

02:34:16.500 --> 02:34:19.159
again, the financial and technical commitment to an

02:34:19.168 --> 02:34:22.530
actual project to move it along. And II, I would take

02:34:22.540 --> 02:34:24.718
issue with the fact that uh our interconnection queue

02:34:24.729 --> 02:34:26.269
goes a heck of a lot quicker than

02:34:27.959 --> 02:34:32.909
he failed to bring that up so they could get. Thank

02:34:32.918 --> 02:34:34.459
you. It's so important. We have a seat at the table

02:34:34.468 --> 02:34:37.540
And so I really appreciate the efforts of everyone

02:34:37.549 --> 02:34:41.700
who's serving on all of the various committees representing

02:34:41.709 --> 02:34:46.909
Texas. Um I don't have anything on 38 39 or 40 unless

02:34:46.918 --> 02:34:51.088
y'all do item 41 will not be taken up. I don't have

02:34:51.099 --> 02:34:55.729
anything on item 42. (item:43:Sunset Advisory Commission, operating budget, strategic plan - Thomas Gleeson) Next up is item number 43. Our

02:34:55.739 --> 02:35:00.433
standing item or agency administrative issues. Sheila

02:35:00.444 --> 02:35:02.604
do we have anyone from the public signed up to speak

02:35:02.614 --> 02:35:06.864
on item 43? No, ma'am. Ok. Thomas, do you have an update

02:35:06.875 --> 02:35:09.763
for us? Yes, ma'am. Thank you madam, chair and commissioners

02:35:09.774 --> 02:35:12.485
Three things to update you on today. First, regarding

02:35:12.495 --> 02:35:15.759
the Texas Energy Fund, um, as you know, that was created

02:35:15.769 --> 02:35:19.099
under Senate Bill 2627. Last session, it will be up

02:35:19.110 --> 02:35:22.200
for a vote to the voters of Texas in November. But

02:35:22.209 --> 02:35:24.450
because of the short timelines, we have to actually

02:35:24.459 --> 02:35:26.360
complete all the work, we have to get started before

02:35:26.370 --> 02:35:28.879
that vote in anticipation of having to do the work

02:35:29.129 --> 02:35:31.479
So, uh the first thing I want to update you on is

02:35:31.489 --> 02:35:34.049
we're gonna create a website to help keep the public

02:35:34.058 --> 02:35:36.588
and the legislature informed of our activities on this

02:35:37.000 --> 02:35:40.729
I anticipate that the website will go live tomorrow

02:35:40.819 --> 02:35:43.290
It will be accessible through our home page on the

02:35:43.299 --> 02:35:47.370
PUC website. Um One thing that I've been insistent

02:35:47.379 --> 02:35:50.360
on and um I think is the direction from the legislature

02:35:50.370 --> 02:35:52.959
is we have to provide people with a timeline. So we

02:35:52.968 --> 02:35:55.110
are going to develop a timeline. It will be updated

02:35:55.120 --> 02:35:58.129
as necessary, it will be on that web page so that everyone

02:35:58.138 --> 02:36:01.718
can see our progress for all major milestones related

02:36:01.729 --> 02:36:05.159
to that fund. Secondly, we are going to do a workshop

02:36:05.168 --> 02:36:09.079
on September 21st. The, the goal of that workshop really

02:36:09.088 --> 02:36:11.879
is to get input as we develop our rules and the applications

02:36:11.888 --> 02:36:13.620
for the different programs in there. But it's open

02:36:13.629 --> 02:36:16.979
to anyone who wants to come and provide input to us

02:36:16.989 --> 02:36:19.299
It will also be broadcast on Texas admin just like

02:36:19.308 --> 02:36:22.870
our open meetings are I would ask that uh suggested

02:36:22.879 --> 02:36:25.759
discussion topics and questions for the workshop be

02:36:25.769 --> 02:36:30.799
submitted by September 15th in project number 54999

02:36:31.138 --> 02:36:34.138
And we'll use that information and finalize an agenda

02:36:34.149 --> 02:36:38.250
for the workshop on September 18th. So no questions

02:36:38.259 --> 02:36:41.968
on that. The second thing uh in response to a Thomas

02:36:41.979 --> 02:36:44.459
what, what was the, what's the website domain? What's

02:36:44.468 --> 02:36:47.079
the? So um I don't know exactly what the, what the

02:36:47.088 --> 02:36:49.479
uh URL is gonna be but it'll be we'll highlight it

02:36:49.489 --> 02:36:52.179
on our home page. So it'll be easy to find for anyone

02:36:52.338 --> 02:36:54.040
I mean, like I said, it should be up tomorrow.

02:36:56.179 --> 02:36:59.110
So in response to a discussion with Commissioner Glotfelty

02:36:59.120 --> 02:37:03.838
last open meeting, we have opened project 55421, the

02:37:03.849 --> 02:37:07.000
Texas advanced nuclear reactor working group for documents

02:37:07.009 --> 02:37:09.120
to be placed there. And I believe Commissioner Glotfelty

02:37:09.129 --> 02:37:12.500
plans to file a memo to provide more context and details

02:37:12.509 --> 02:37:15.138
around that issue. I would just encourage folks to

02:37:15.149 --> 02:37:17.099
continue to look at that docket number. There will

02:37:17.110 --> 02:37:21.549
be meeting notices, other information that will be

02:37:21.558 --> 02:37:23.709
filed through that docket and I appreciate the staff

02:37:23.718 --> 02:37:26.918
getting that docket set up. Yes, sir. And finally a

02:37:26.929 --> 02:37:31.610
note of very good news for one of our staff. Uh Barksdale

02:37:31.620 --> 02:37:35.099
we I nominated him for the Governor's Executive development

02:37:35.110 --> 02:37:39.030
program which is probably the most selective uh training

02:37:39.040 --> 02:37:41.870
program in the state for state employees. And uh he

02:37:41.879 --> 02:37:43.940
was selected for the upcoming class, so we're very

02:37:43.950 --> 02:37:44.569
excited for it.

02:37:49.190 --> 02:37:52.729
He looks very excited that I called him, teach him

02:37:52.739 --> 02:37:55.860
how to be a better enforcer. That's all I have this

02:37:55.870 --> 02:37:59.679
morning madam chair. Ok. Thank you very much. I don't

02:37:59.690 --> 02:38:02.968
have anything for the remainder of the agenda and unless

02:38:02.979 --> 02:38:06.218
y'all do, um, there is nothing for a closed session

02:38:06.700 --> 02:38:08.870
there being no further business to come before the

02:38:08.879 --> 02:38:11.218
commission. This meeting of the Public Utility Commission

02:38:11.229 --> 02:38:14.558
of Texas is hereby adjourned at 12 30.